From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 07:29:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22465 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09657; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22870 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:43:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22858 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.37] (ell53.acadia.net [205.217.218.37]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06979 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:53:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: velvet vs. velveteen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> This is strictly modern, of course. There is a huge difference between velvet and velveteen, because they are two completely different weave structures, and both can be made with any fiber (i.e. you could have cotton velvet, and silk velveteen.) Velvet is a supplementary warp structure, and is woven in two layers that must be cut apart (as in cut velvet.) In other words, the pile comes from extra warp. In velveteen, extra weft creates the pile. According to Florence Montgomery, velveteen was *new* in 1776, as an improvement on velveret (which is not smooth, but ribbed like modern corduroy, and dates no earlier than the eary 18c.) <> Yes, very definitely. It would behave differently because of the fiber as well -- some early velvets had linen warps and wool or mohair piles, for instance. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 07:36:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22504 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:36:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10220; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23816 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:50:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23800; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-233.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.233]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA26135; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:43:44 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910011243.WAA26135@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: , , Subject: H-COST: CC20 payments Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:37:06 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" To clarify the upgrade payment for Costume-Con 20 memberships... If you have paid a supporting or pre-supporting amount, simply pay the balance to bring your full amount up to the going rate... eg: I have paid US$25 and want to buy full membership, I must pay US$35 to bring it to the full amount of US$60. I have paid A$40 and want to buy full membership, I must pay A$60 to bring it to the full amount of A$100. I have paid C$30 and want to buy full membership, I must pay C$70 to bring it to the full amount of C$100. I have paid $1,000,000 and want a refund down to the correct amount, I am sunk because they will just use my money to go to Rio. A note on the different amounts in different countries: The amounts people are paying in various countries are more-or-less equal, that is, they are keyed to average exchange rates between currencies and were rounded down to the nearest ten bucks at the time they were set. The same process of keeping payments equal will be used when the price hike happens in December, 2001. If your currency is not represented in the price scales, either contact us or (go out on a limb and) send us the equivalent of $100 Australian. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 08:17:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22669 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14025; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA29645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:30:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29638 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:30:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XIU0Iq8HL (4190) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:30:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA29640 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/01/1999 4:00:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << >I don't like the Cavalier look much either; it's the only style I've seen >that can make a woman gain 20 visual pounds just by putting it on. Funny - on my they take off about 20 pounds. 200 - 20 = not too bad. >> LOL...good one. Like the 1830-40s comment, I just don't get it. Fay Dunnaway doesn't look fat in "3 Musketeers"....and the camera is supposed to add 20 lb.! All these periods, 1830s 1840s 1630s, suffer [like 1800s] if the fabrics are not "just so"....usually light and airy. The real 1830s dress we put on Jasmine Guy in "Queen" was very fine, with a delicate yellow swirling pattern printed on it. The Gigot sleeves were not clunky [like you can get in the 1890s] but a ball of air. The whole gown moved at the slightest breeze. Absolutely beautiful. The 1840s is another period I love. The "plainness" of the designs with, again, fantastic fabrics being the key to decoration [as opposed to braids and ribbons] if any. About the only period I can truly see difficulty getting into the aesthetic is that brief stint in 1820s...where the waist is not quite at the waist but not under the bust either, and the hem is laden with all manner of appliqué & trims. But, as with every period, with the right hat, lace collar, shawl, mitts... accessories ....it comes to life and gets me excited. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 09:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26923 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:47:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAB25654; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17682 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:01:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17667 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-171.s171.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.171]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14866 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007701bf0c1d$6514a560$933eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Technical Problems Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:58:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I am sorry some of you had problems getting into the Ball yesterday. One of our server lines went down yesterday, which bogged down the other servers. First problem in two years, that's a pretty good record. The problem is fixed, and you may now play on the Ball without problems. To go to the Ball, http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm I did add two more historic costume pages to the Ball last night. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 10:38:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27584 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:38:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03220; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:52:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00421 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 132.198.103.243 (132.198.103.243) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.0551D890@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:52:14 -0500 Message-ID: <37F4E8CC.6005@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 12:01:13 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, sca-garb@list.uvm.edu Subject: H-COST: More (New) Tudor Images Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hope Greenberg I've added a few more images to the Tudor dress page. This time the images are taken from monumental brasses, a medium which, despite its obvious limitations, often offers some interesting details. Check it out at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor - Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:00:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28006 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:00:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16673; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22120 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:13:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22105 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991001171321.MXNI14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:13:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991001171321.MXNI14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Fred Harvey is a name associated with Navajo rugs - it may be with other things too. The Fred Harvey company was known for purchasing hundreds of thousands of red-back-white-grey blankets or rugs from the Hubbel trading post area and selling them to the *anglo* market. In fact this practice was often known as blankets or rugs by the pound as they were often paid for by weight and not for their artistic value. Mass buying created a demand and weavers strove to weave more of this type rug so that they could sell them. It must be remembered that Navajo Rugs were originally *blankets* not to be confused with what we would put on a bed - they were worn, much like blankets are worn in India. In that regard they are definitely historic costume. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite >Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999, 10:37 AM > > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >Also >>in that day's haul were three sterling silver Harvey (something - named >>after the tourist store) bracelets from like the 1930's, also @$5. each. > >I think the name given that kind of bracelet is Fred Harvey, but I haven't >been to the Grand Canyon lately to check. They're a flat strip of silver >with stamped designs in them, allegedly telling a story. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28009 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16672; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21938 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:12:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21896 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qscri.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.51.114]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA30434 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003a01bf0c30$53c5d1e0$7233aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: H-COST: Sari Silk Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:13:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" It's made >of silver-threaded pale blue silk sari silk Here's an question: Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:01:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28019 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:01:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16686; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22397 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:14:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22387 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991001171432.MXTE14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:14:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:18:25 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991001171432.MXTE14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Velvet also come in silk. It is very nice. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! >Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999, 10:25 AM > > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>Velvets also come in a cotton/rayon (like Matinee' velvet), 100% cotton and >>wool. > >Wool velvet is called plush, and is available thru teddy bear making supply >houses. It's seriously expensive. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:23:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28028 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:23:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18866; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25333 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:27:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25321 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA12941; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F4EF8D.390D5614@serv.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:29:50 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <003a01bf0c30$53c5d1e0$7233aec7@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? It would probably have to be interlined to give it stability, it's pretty drapey stuff. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:24:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28032 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19019; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25584 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:28:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25572 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991001172849.NACF14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:28:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:32:41 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991001172849.NACF14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" There is no such thing as *sari silk*. This sounds like there is a type of silk known as sari silk and there is no such thing. Do you mean silk that was woven to be used as a saree? ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" >To: >Subject: H-COST: Sari Silk >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 10:13 AM > > >-Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" > > >It's made >>of silver-threaded pale blue silk sari silk > >Here's an question: > >Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? >Anya > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:41:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28060 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22648; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22269 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:53:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA22242 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:53:45 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: improper attire Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:52:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bf0c35$b6a4d900$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Kayta> A friend of mine made a carefully researched 1870's bathing costume just so she could 'streak' Living History Days in it. Thanks Kayta, glad you liked it! --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 12:45:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28067 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23352; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22885 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:56:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22875 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02200 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:55:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:55:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199910011755.KAA02200@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:52 AM 09/24/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I've had good luck with putting >>it in a big plastic trash bag with a box of cornmeal, shaking vigorously, >>and letting it sit for a day. > >Do you mean cornmeal, or cornstarch? Cornmeal. the slight roughness of the particles dry shampoos the fur. Cornstarch is good, too, but for removing oils. I suppose you could use both at once for dirt and oils. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 13:01:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28086 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:01:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25742; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26680 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:12:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26668 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04226 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:10:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:10:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:29 AM 10/01/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? > >It would probably have to be interlined to give it stability, it's >pretty drapey stuff. > I believe Janet Arnold once said that modern metallic brocaded sari fabrics were the closest thing to Elizabethan brocades we can get today. I don't see it, myself. Even with substantial flatlining, the fabrics don't have the same sorts of patterns. Brocaded saris usually have a wide decorated border on one selvedge, a narrower one on the other side, spot motifs or an allover pattern on the body of the cloth, and an elaborately decorated area about a foot deep on one end, for the part that goes over the head. Elizabethan brocades seem to have been allover patterns, not borders. the borders on skirts, etc, were usually separately embroidered guards. You could probably make sari fabric look good for Elizabethan if you chose it well and cut judiciously, but I wouldn't use it as is, say, using the brocaded border as the hem of a skirt. I think it would just look too much like a sari. Now, if I won the lottery and price was no object for the Elizabethan of my dreams (a scenario I spend much too much time daydreaming about) I'd go to one of the Italian decorator fabric houses, and get them to custom weave me some real gold and silver tissue. And then I'd go to Brussels and get some lace made, and to Paris to have Lesage embroider the guards, and..... Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 13:16:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28108 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27645; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29298 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:24:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29235 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:24:19 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:20:58 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f4f5f6.111546427@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19991001172849.NACF14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> In-Reply-To: <19991001172849.NACF14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA29263 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:32:41 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by "R.L. Shep" : > > >There is no such thing as *sari silk*. This sounds like there is a type of >silk known as sari silk and there is no such thing. >Do you mean silk that was woven to be used as a saree? >~!~ R.L.Shep Actually, to be perfectly fair, *colloquially*, 'silk that was woven to be used as a saree' is known by most non-East Indian people as 'sari silk' or just 'sari'. This usage is quite familiar to me from my youth, when I lived in an area with a large East Indian population. I knew lots of people who would refer to buying the silk that is usually seen in sari-shop window displays as buying 'sari silk'. Usually these people were purchasing it for period costume, but sometimes my mother's freinds who bellydanced would refer to doing this, to buy fabric for cabaret costumes. The colloquial definition of the term 'sari silk' as I have heard it used for most of my life: The fancy, often heavily figured light silks, often accented, highlighted or shot with metallic threads, with woven-in border patterns along one selvedge and often with woven borders on the ends of the piece as well. This can often be had for much more reasonable prices than other fancy figured silks, because the shops that sell it generally keep their prices low to keep business within the community. This is distinct from 'silk from India' because that covers so many different types of fabric. Interestingly, ikat, even if intended to worn as a sari, always seems to be described as ikat. The abbreviation 'sari silk' for the above rather long definition has also been heard to be used by freinds of mine from the east cost, who did not pick it up from me, but from colloquial use in their area. I asked, because I wasn't sure it was the same colloquial use that I knew. Satisfied? Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 13:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28138 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:35:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00667; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20227 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:45:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20117 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991001184510.NPCM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:45:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:48:53 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991001184510.NPCM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" It is not a question of being *satisfied*. there are any number of silks that can be used for sarees: mulberry, tussah, mugha as well as different weights and weaves. However it is nice to know what you are talking about. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 11:20 AM > > >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > >On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:32:41 -0700, the following was written in this >electric book by "R.L. Shep" : > >> >> >>There is no such thing as *sari silk*. This sounds like there is a type of >>silk known as sari silk and there is no such thing. >>Do you mean silk that was woven to be used as a saree? >>~!~ R.L.Shep > >Actually, to be perfectly fair, *colloquially*, 'silk that was woven >to be used as a saree' is known by most non-East Indian people as >'sari silk' or just 'sari'. This usage is quite familiar to me from my >youth, when I lived in an area with a large East Indian population. > >I knew lots of people who would refer to buying the silk that is >usually seen in sari-shop window displays as buying 'sari silk'. >Usually these people were purchasing it for period costume, but >sometimes my mother's freinds who bellydanced would refer to doing >this, to buy fabric for cabaret costumes. > >The colloquial definition of the term 'sari silk' as I have heard it >used for most of my life: > > The fancy, often heavily figured light silks, often accented, > highlighted or shot with metallic threads, with woven-in border > patterns along one selvedge and often with woven borders on the > ends of the piece as well. This can often be had for much more > reasonable prices than other fancy figured silks, because the shops > that sell it generally keep their prices low to keep business > within the community. > >This is distinct from 'silk from India' because that covers so many >different types of fabric. Interestingly, ikat, even if intended to >worn as a sari, always seems to be described as ikat. > >The abbreviation 'sari silk' for the above rather long definition has >also been heard to be used by freinds of mine from the east cost, who >did not pick it up from me, but from colloquial use in their area. I >asked, because I wasn't sure it was the same colloquial use that I >knew. > >Satisfied? > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 13:48:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28149 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03171; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27368 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:58:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27355 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27684 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:57:47 -0400 Message-ID: <37F5042F.5643FD2B@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:59:56 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery References: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Margo Anderson wrote: > one of the Italian decorator fabric houses, and get them to custom weave me > some real gold and silver tissue. And then I'd go to Brussels and get some > lace made, and to Paris to have Lesage embroider the guards, and..... I once saw, at Britex's ground floor, red-and-gold silk brocade with an additional metallic gold thread, that looked *very* close to those 1400s fancy brocades and figured velvets. It was, however, $150/yard. Drool. -- The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a person only tells them with all his might. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 13:52:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28185 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04063; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28752 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:04:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28740 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10366 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:03:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:03:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199910011903.MAA10366@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I once saw, at Britex's ground floor, red-and-gold silk brocade with an >additional metallic gold thread, that looked *very* close to those 1400s >fancy brocades and figured velvets. It was, however, $150/yard. Drool. I saw that, too. I was tempted to grab the bolt and see just how fast I could run. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 14:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28214 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:10:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06664; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03118 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:22:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03081 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27732 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:21:22 -0400 Message-ID: <37F509B6.C2659832@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:23:32 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery References: <199910011903.MAA10366@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Ok, Margo and I will form the nucleus of the new Britex Strike Team -- any other takers? Meanwhile, for those with more lawful inclinations, I did see at Calico Corners that they are selling 100% silk brocades, single colors, in plausibly late medieval or early renaissance patterns. They are in the swatches to order section, and are about $80/yard. (No, their website does not list or show fabrics, alas.) cv -- For those going to Collegium in Cynagua next week, I'll be visiting and doing a hat class. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 15:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28360 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:14:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15570; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16872 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16866 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:24:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JKIa01787 (4227) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40c13894.25267278@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:24:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: aesthetic dress To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com My impression is that aesthetic dress was actually more popular than you might guess today. A couple of years ago, when I was interested in reproducing an aesthetic gown, I couldn't find more than a handful of photos of any of them. But I found plenty of written references. It was popular enough for "Punch" to run cartoons about it, and Gilbert and Sullivan to write an operetta about it ("Patience" -- I've never seen it but the book is hilarious). In addition to dress, the "aesthetic" look was part of an entire look in furniture, decorating, dishes, and literature. So while it was daring and anti-fashion, it wasn't quite as counter-culture as the whole Bohemian thing, which is fascinating in itself. Gail Finke an aesthetic at heart . . . _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 15:23:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28389 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:23:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16920; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19217 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19202 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA20598; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F51BBA.3035A501@serv.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:38:19 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: aesthetic dress References: <40c13894.25267278@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > My impression is that aesthetic dress was actually more popular than you > might guess today. [snip] In addition to dress, the "aesthetic" look was part > of an entire > look in furniture, decorating, dishes, and literature. So while it was daring > and anti-fashion, it wasn't quite as counter-culture as the whole Bohemian > thing, which is fascinating in itself. Can someone explain "aesthetic dress" to me? Many thanks, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 15:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28414 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20134; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22653 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:52:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22615 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.13.92]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FIX007G8Z91EV@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asu.edu (azhist-3.lib.asu.edu [129.219.248.72]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03598 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:52:40 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:44:29 -0700 From: "The Adjutant's Office" Subject: H-COST: Banner Silk--Slightly OT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37F51D2D.212E8F1D@asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <199910012025.OAA16997@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Adjutant's Office" Hi... Does anyone know exactly what "banner silk" is and if it is still available? I want to make a flag, but I'm not having much luck so far finding the fabric.... Thanks... Cynthia adjutant@asu.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 17:50:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28534 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06171; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10687 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:13:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10679 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991001221310.PKOM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:13:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:16:54 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991001221310.PKOM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Added to your lottery list might be a double ikat silk saree from Patan, India. These are often known as Patola. There are only 2 families that weave them now. Price - around US$10,000.OO for a good saree. Wheeeeeee! I went there and bought a small piece of a ruined saree as a present for a friend. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Cynthia Virtue >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 11:59 AM > > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >Margo Anderson wrote: >> one of the Italian decorator fabric houses, and get them to custom weave me >> some real gold and silver tissue. And then I'd go to Brussels and get some >> lace made, and to Paris to have Lesage embroider the guards, and..... > >I once saw, at Britex's ground floor, red-and-gold silk brocade with an >additional metallic gold thread, that looked *very* close to those 1400s >fancy brocades and figured velvets. It was, however, $150/yard. Drool. > >-- >The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a >person only tells them with all his might. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 18:09:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28549 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08702; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03451 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:22:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03371 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04042 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009b01bf0c64$4ebdfcc0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:25:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Meanwhile, for those with more lawful inclinations, I did see at Calico >Corners that they are selling 100% silk brocades, single colors, in >plausibly late medieval or early renaissance patterns. They are in the >swatches to order section, and are about $80/yard. (No, their website >does not list or show fabrics, alas.) Designer Fabric Outlet in Toronto (known to afficionados as the "Orange Bag Store") carries some *wonderful* fairly-close-to-period (several periods, depending on the design, later Middle Ages and Renaissance) silk brocades in the $75-$90 CDN range. I didn't win the lottery, but we did receive some inheritance money that allowed me to buy some of a gorgeous red and gold silk with stylized animals that really reminded me of some 13th century textiles I saw at the V&A. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 18:33:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28605 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10977; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18592 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:45:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18583 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17118 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from 206-132-48-27.nas-1.SCF.primenet.com(206.132.48.27), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA1CaOoH; Fri Oct 1 16:45:35 1999 Message-ID: <0b6a01bf0c66$825b9220$8cae30d0@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: Silk brocade Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:53:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" All this talk about silk brocades got me to thinking; how about Chinese silk brocades? I'm wondering if the patterns can be justified for Elizabethan. How much trade was coming in? I have some heavy black with silver filigree and gold crythamums on it...I can scan some, if you need a picture. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 18:38:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28609 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:38:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11441; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19395 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:51:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hurontario.net (root@hurontario.net [209.135.104.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19388 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VSIMPSON.maclaren (remote-189.hurontario.net [209.135.104.189]) by hurontario.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA09810 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910012358.TAA09810@hurontario.net> From: "Vandy Simpson" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:52:35 -0400 Subject: H-COST: "sari silk" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199910012025.OAA16997@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vandy Simpson" Greetings. Well, on the whole, I've seen just too many costumes made from sari fabrics."Sari silk" and dupionni silk seem to have taken the world by storm in the last few years, and everyone's using them, whether they're appropriate or not. But I was judging at an arts competition this past weekend, and there was a very nice costume made out of a quite different quality of "Sari silk". It was much heavier and supple, with an all-over pattern. I think that perhaps there was too much "sari silk" in combination in the dress to suit the style and period, but the individual elements worked well, and the workmanship seemed to be exemplary. One of the fabrics used in the skirts had a distinctly Jacobean flavour to it.It was a very heavy cream silk with a brocaded pattern, and the sleeves were another heavy silk in red with a small all-over pattern in gold. A bit of overkill, perhaps, but certainly some appealing fabrics! Vandy Simpson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 19:20:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28711 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15427; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28870 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:35:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28862; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08843; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01b301bf0c6e$685e2740$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: , Subject: Re: H-COST: "sari silk" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:38:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" -Greetings! > But I was judging at an arts competition this past weekend, and >there was a very nice costume made out of a quite different quality >of "Sari silk". It was much heavier and supple, with an all-over >pattern. I think a lot of folks assume that all "sari silk" is light and floaty. Not so. If you're lucky enough to live in a city with a substantial East Indian population and a number of "sari stores," you'll see a number of weights of silk and types of patterning. Many of the more pricy saris have a fair bit of weight to them, and so they "hang right." These are not fabrics that you can see through when you hold them up to the light--quite the opposite! Furthermore, they don't have the slubbed look of dupionni, but rather the glow and sheen of high-quality, high-density silk. I think I know the outfit Vandy describes, and the silks are indeed stunning, and have earned the lady who made the outfit a jealous glance or twenty. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 19:58:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28844 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19269; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03920 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:13:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03914 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial28.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.28]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA03137 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001181521.007accf0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:15:21 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... In-Reply-To: <199909301424.HAA24183@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >-Poster: Margo Anderson >Does it need to be washed because it has some Foul Substance on it, or is it >just dirty and matted? If it's the second, I've had good luck with putting >it in a big plastic trash bag with a box of cornmeal, shaking vigorously, >and letting it sit for a day. Then take it out and throughly shake out the >cornmeal. You may need to vaccuum it gently. The difficulty is that I purchased it at a thrift shop, out of a bin. I don't know what has been done to it, and I would like it to be.... sterilized somewhat before lining a hood with it.. Kris Yes, I'm picky :] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 20:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28871 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19981; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04617 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:19:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04611 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.134] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11XDpr-0001In-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:19:40 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:16:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Technical Problems In-Reply-To: <007701bf0c1d$6514a560$933eaccf@e4c2n6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:58 AM 10/01/1999, "Penny Ladnier" wrote: >I am sorry some of you had problems getting into the Ball yesterday. One of >our server lines went down yesterday, which bogged down the other servers. >Later... Penny For the record, I didn't think it was anything you did, Penny. I'm glad to see it's fixed though--I really was looking forward to visiting...thank you! Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 20:26:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28880 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:26:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21592; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07111 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:39:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07101 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial4.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.4]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA03291 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001184105.007a4260@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:41:05 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Gamurra pleats In-Reply-To: <37F39859.54DB2168@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 01:05 PM 30/09/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Elizabeth Jones >Oh, I wanted to add about these pleats (to my previous long reply): They >look like box pleats, as do my own knife pleats. I originally tried box >pleats with this dress, but could not get the pleats full enough to >provide that kind of volume, and yet not go beyond about 2" across. So I >did this peculiar knife pleat: fold twice the width (about 4" across) in >one direction, and then double back over itself. This ends up looking >like a box pleat on the outside, but a knife pleat on the inside. I did I have a skirt where I knife pleated about 4.5 - 5 metres of fanric to a 32" waistband :] I used a rectangular piece of fabric, and it worked very well, and actually looks quite similar (after going back and comparing skirt to picture). I think I'm going to do it that way, because at least I understand how they work & how much fabric I need... Thanks so much for the help, tho.. Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 20:46:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28896 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23878; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09821 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09812 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:08 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HUEa15800 (4467) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12da30f2.2526c140@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:00:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Banner Silk--Slightly OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Try Dharma Trading Co. in San Francisco.8005425227.They have various weights of 'banner silk'.We've ordered it from them by the bolt, although one can also purchase smaller amounts.We'ver used 5 mm(very lightweight) as well as 8mm(heavier) The 8 mm wears better.Takes dyes beautifully.They sell dies, resists, and the tools for applying same.Nice folks to deal with. Good luck! Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 20:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28900 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:46:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23877; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09906 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09895 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p45.directcon.net [206.170.184.144]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23677 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:00:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:00:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199910020200.TAA23677@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >The difficulty is that I purchased it at a thrift shop, out of a bin. I >don't know what has been done to it, and I would like it to be.... >sterilized somewhat before lining a hood with it.. > Well, I don't know if you can actually sterilize fur, but if you're worried about small creatures, you might want to seal it in a plastic bag and freeze it for 48 hours. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 21:29:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28944 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:29:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28717; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14668 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:44:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14659 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial10.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.10]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA03623 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001194606.007a84e0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:46:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... In-Reply-To: <199910020200.TAA23677@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >-Poster: Margo Anderson >Well, I don't know if you can actually sterilize fur, but if you're worried >about small creatures, you might want to seal it in a plastic bag and freeze >it for 48 hours. I like the sounds of this! I must try it this week sometime :] Thanks you! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 21:31:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28954 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28882; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14976 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:46:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14969 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.121.194]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991002024604.JYTW15731@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 02:46:04 +0000 Message-ID: <37F57228.5E450D77@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:47:04 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson lilinah@grin.net wrote: > > -Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > My least favorite style is the bustle dress of the 1870's and 1880's, > especially the ones that have a very narrow skirt decorated with "garlands" > of trim. It isn't the "big butt" of the bustle that bothers me. I don't > like these dresses from the front. Oh, this is my absolute *favorite* period - beats the early 1880's with the "tea cart" bustle. My best costume is an 1878 bustle with the cuirass bodice and close fitting skirt and *yards* of ruffle - I get a lot of compliments on it at costume events. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 21:42:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29003 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:42:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00128; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16364 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:57:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16356 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.121.194]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991002025642.KCWQ15731@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 02:56:42 +0000 Message-ID: <37F574A7.AA64DD3A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:57:43 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery References: <199910011903.MAA10366@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > >I once saw, at Britex's ground floor, red-and-gold silk brocade with an > >additional metallic gold thread, that looked *very* close to those 1400s > >fancy brocades and figured velvets. It was, however, $150/yard. Drool. > > I saw that, too. I was tempted to grab the bolt and see just how fast I > could run. > > Margo Yeah, me too back in January 1998. Giles and I sat there and fondled it for a while. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 21:53:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29036 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:53:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01161; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17782 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:08:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17777 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.121.194]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991002030628.KGKZ15731@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 03:06:28 +0000 Message-ID: <37F576F1.9C743531@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:07:29 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Margo Anderson wrote: > I believe Janet Arnold once said that modern metallic brocaded sari fabrics > were the closest thing to Elizabethan brocades we can get today. > > I don't see it, myself. Even with substantial flatlining, the fabrics > don't have the same sorts of patterns. Brocaded saris usually have a wide > decorated border on one selvedge, a narrower one on the other side, spot > motifs or an allover pattern on the body of the cloth, and an elaborately > decorated area about a foot deep on one end, for the part that goes over the > head. > > Elizabethan brocades seem to have been allover patterns, not borders. the > borders on skirts, etc, were usually separately embroidered guards. > > You could probably make sari fabric look good for Elizabethan if you chose > it well and cut judiciously, but I wouldn't use it as is, say, using the > brocaded border as the hem of a skirt. I think it would just look too much > like a sari. I agree with what Margo said with regard to sari fabric and Elizabethans - I haven't really seen one yet that I would think would fit the brocade patterns of elizabethan. But as someone else said, sari come in a lot of weights. I've successfully used them for Regency (the light airy stuff) and 1870's bustle dresses (this was an antique sari I got at a swap meet). Many sari are quite heavy, although with the current "fad" in Indian patterns and fabrics they've also got rather expensive on the used market, which is where I normally buy them. I can still sometimes find them at thrift stores like the Salvation army or Goodwill for around $20 for the good light-weight silk ones. For good heavy silk brocades, though, i think I'd be inclined to look for Japanese kimono silk or obi. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 22:24:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29157 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03110; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20177 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:31:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20136 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-12-17.stk.inreach.net [209.142.12.17]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09010 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F57B4D.11E65C53@inreach.com> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:26:06 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H Robin Netherton wrote: > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > > > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, > over > > >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the > fancy > > >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). > > -- That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads > me to > -- believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to > make > -- her plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. > > > I believe the first set of comments is more accurate. This is a > > representation of (dare I say it?) a kirtle or underdress. Sorry, > don't > > know the Flemish/French term as we have already discussed. The > sleeves > > were pinned on to a short sleeved underdress, but would have shown > under > > her overdress - houppelande, etc. > > That was my assumption for a long time, no doubt because I read that > explanation somewhere years ago. But after spending a lot of time > studying > 15th-century Flemish dress last year, I've been rethinking that idea. > There's no doubt that the short-sleeved dress is an underdress, but > once I > started looking, I didn't see any pictures that jumped out at me as > being > examples of fancy false sleeves showing out from under the large > sleeves > of an overdress. In fact, most of the overdresses I saw > contemporaneous > with these short-sleeved underdresses had narrow sleeves, not wide > ones > that would show off a fancy undersleeve. > > That got me wondering whether the short-sleeved underdresses were > developed specifically to be worn under the (relatively new) > narrow-sleeved overdresses -- maybe to reduce warmth and bulk on the > arm. Diana here..... While I normally know more about Italian than anything, I found this style to be particularly interesting and so I did some searching and here is what I found: This Flemish style of chemise, short-sleeved overdress, then pinned-on sleeve is shown in a number of paintings--just as is. I have not encountered a style of overdress where these sleeves show through. That doesn't mean they didn't do it, but I think the typical style of this gown was just as you see in that picture of the Magdalen. I have a photocopy that I got from a library book which unfortunately has no particular painter credited but which does show three ladies maids in various states of this dress. One is reaching into some wash water and is wearing a white chemise with sleeves that end between her elbow and wrist. Her overdress is a mottled yellow and brown (time-worn paint maybe?) and on her right arm she is wearing one oversleeve in blue. The lady next to her has a rose-colored overgown which is lined in gray and the skirt guarding is also gray. She has an underskirt of green and a slightly different green for her oversleeves which are both being worn. The third lady is wearing what appears to be an overdress of green which is lined in white where the neckline is high and everything matches. Her dress is flipped up and she is wearing a white dress underneath which has a band of grey at the bottom which appears to be about halfway up her lower leg. I hope that wasn't too confusing. I believe that the purpose to this style is that the decorative oversleeves could be of a very expensive fabric to show off some pretty stuff because you wouldn't have to buy much of it. Also you would only wear them for fancy occasions or when you weren't going to get them dirty. Also take a look at this painting: http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/weyden/p-weyden7.htm Check out the lady on the far right and you will see her wearing the same thing again. You can also see that her dress is lined in a different colored fabric because it is flipped up. Also note the obvious seam lines in the bodice and the seam line indicating a separate skirt (i.e. not continuous princess line like a cotehardie). HTH, Diana :~> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 23:08:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29198 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:08:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08164; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25805 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:21:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25800 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.59 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:21:04 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Pre-Revolution "New Amsterdam" Costume Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bf0c8e$ee982160$3b0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Using some of that cotton velvet so inexpensive now at Walmart, this jacket is very long lived Dutch woman's garment. Velvet on the outside, fur-lined on the inside. With little variation, I have seen this in 1410 sculpture, this in 1600's, and later into the late 18th Century. I saw a library book once which talked about the multi-ethnicity of America before the Revolution (some things never change!) and the costume depicted for the New York area looked like this. I think it was no accident that the Dutch seafaring merchant traders created a great business setting like New York: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/m/p-metsu2.htm. http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/m/p-mierisi1.htm Both images are Dutch around 1660, early, but will give you the general idea. I love the low armscye and the gathers on the shoulder/sleeve seam in the second image, serving woman at the rear. For a lower class middle class woman, narrower fur trim and a woolen skirt would be appropriate. This is an poor woman's costume closer to 1700, I believe: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/v/p-vrel4.htm and here a woman similar station in life in better detail: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/vermeer/p-vermeer8.htm. The excellent resources in universities and museums in your own area should reveal a greater degree of accuracy regarding costume in New Amsterdam. Sorry I wasn't able to find anything closer in time period. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 01:04:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29265 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:04:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15046; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09043 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:19:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09038 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.96] (sdts11-96.znet.net [207.167.66.96]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id XAA15471 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:19:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990924102423.00bf6c30@pop.slip.net> References: <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:18:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >Wool velvet is called plush, and is available thru teddy bear making supply >houses. It's seriously expensive. Cool! I got mine years ago at an apholstery shop in Santa Ana, CA. It was made for auto apholstery I think. It is VERY thick and has 30% cashmere and less than 1% of some synthetic (which is applied as a backing), but doesn't look very teddybearish, so perhaps its a bit different. It makes GREAT armor though... The nap is so full that I had to handsew all the banding because it would just slip one way or the other. I called all over Orange County CA to find it. It was about $32 at the time (12 yrs ago or so) but I lucked out and found part of it as a 75% off remnant. I made my husband an SCA fighting waffenrock and he still wears it. Overall it still looks ok, but the velveteen banding has worn its nap away in places. The wool that goes under his breastplate has been patched, but the skirt itself still looks pretty good. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 07:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25953 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:06:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28155; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06593 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06586 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.123.186]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991002121654.HRCR19354.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:16:54 +0100 Message-ID: <37F64C43.214A@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:17:39 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-Revolution costume References: <003001bf0ad5$11f2cd60$c65dadc7@bchamber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Beth wrote: > > HELP!! > My local historical society is embarking on a project to costume the > instructors who teach in their school programs. If you are doing lower class then the easiest style to go for is the bedgown which was worn throughout the 18thc but particularly in the 1740's and 50's. this is a T-shape jacket about hip length which wraps over and can fit universally there is a pattern for one in the cut of women's clothes in the original tailors pattern section. I run a 1740's -60's group in england and we have successfully made several of these for slop chest so that new members can have something to wear at their first event. You should also have pocket hoops which are more practical than full if you are portraying working women. Any of the undress jackets in the relevant Janet Arnold book are suitable but I wouldn't advise a full saque as these were only really worn for dress and by higher ranking women at this date it being a french fashion. There are some very nice mantua patterns in the COWC which work well. Aim to use linen rather than cotton although cotton was used more in the Americas than England and patterns can be stripes checks ginghams and florals. Caps can be various styles. the favourite of working women of the period is the round eared cap, but also smaller ones with lappets are okay. Hope this helps Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 07:06:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25958 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28156; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06604 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06599 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.123.186]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991002122223.JBB1518.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:22:23 +0100 Message-ID: <37F64F05.4FFE@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:29:25 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <003a01bf0c30$53c5d1e0$7233aec7@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Chris and Trish Makowski wrote: > > -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" >As I do alot of late 17th- early 19th c clothing I use a great deal of Indian silks as they are accurate for the period having been brought over to England via the East India Company. I am lucky enouch to live near an Indian community and so have access to a many different sorts, wieghts etc. Many of the silks are still hand woven and vegetable dyed and so usually only about 8-10m are available of a particular design which is perfect for exclusive clothing (if not a sari). Costs over here are between £10-£20 for these which isn't bad at all. last year there was a preponderance of 18thc style designs which I matched to some original textiles in the V&A and they were spookily similar, at the moment there are some smaller lozenge/ medallion weaves which are very Italian Renaissance and I am having a hard job not to buy. I would only use an actual sari for late 1790's- 1810 as there are some examples of dresses being made this way but otherwise if the weight was okay I would cut the fabric up and use it just as 6 yards of beautiful cloth for other periods. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 07:06:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25959 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28150; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06623 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06617 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.123.186]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991002121705.HRDL19354.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:17:05 +0100 Message-ID: <37F65003.68DE@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:33:39 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns etc References: <199909290800_MC2-86E6-EEE4@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Margaret Bolger wrote: > > -Poster: Margaret Bolger > > Apologies if you are already aware of this, but I thought it might be of > interest! > > At my 'Antique Costume & Textiles Fair' last week, Lindy Pickard and Dave > Rushworth were selling a whole load of patterns and handbooks - I think > they have only recently started their business. > > Their 45 patterns cover a number of periods : Viking, Medieval, 16thC, > English Civil War, 18thC, 19thC - and range from trousers, tunics, > doublets, hose, breeches, frock coats etc in a wide range of sizes. > > Their handbooks include : Medieval Women, medieval men, How to make > Medieval Shoes, 17thC Women, 1798 French Revolutionary Uniform, 1812-15 > French Infantry Uniform. > They also sell natural fibre textiles, buttons etc. > > Their business is called Petty Chapman and is based in Yorkshire UK. Tele: > +44 (0) 1484.512968 > > If anyone wants more information and their address, please get in touch > with me. I also have a full list of the available patterns and handbooks. > > (I have no connection with them - just passing information along!) > > Margaret > antique costume & textiles > http://www.artizania.co.uk Lindy and Dave have been re-enactors in England for a great many years and are friends of mine they have done a great many periods between them and also have a business selling cloth, patterns, buttons etc to re-enactors over here. the patterns aren't too bad although as with all patterns they are generic and will not necessarily fit without altering to your own shape dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 07:15:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25967 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:15:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28651; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07454 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:30:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07447 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 06:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28695 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:30:07 -0400 Message-ID: <37F5FACF.E119CDD7@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:30:50 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves References: <37F57B4D.11E65C53@inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Diana H wrote many interesting things, and one for which I have a different interpreation: > http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/weyden/p-weyden7.htm > > Check out the lady on the far right and you will see her wearing the > same thing again. You can also see that her dress is lined in a > different colored fabric because it is flipped up. I don't think that is her skirt; I think it is another piece of cloth, perhaps a mantle, that is falling from around her shoulders and is caught up on her skirt. The 'crucifiction inside a church' painting has another of these gathered mantles on the skirt. You can see what I think is the edge of the mantle in the folds between her knees -- which means that on her left knee we are seeing one side of it, and after the edge, we're seeing the turned-back edge of the fabric, and they are the same color. cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 09:53:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26099 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:53:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08781; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23287 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:08:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23278 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28328 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:16:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28986 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:15:55 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:15:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: Seeking a Folkwear pattern... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton Somewhere, buried in my things, I thought I had a Folkwear pattern for the Missouri Riverboatman's Shirt. The design is based on the shirt worn by the riverboatmen in George Caleb Bingham's paintings. I have never used the pattern (though I vaguely remember that I once talked to the designer at the Missouri Historical Society, about 20 years ago). I thought I might want to make one up for a friend of mine, and now I can't find it. Maybe I never bought it after all, who knows. I did call Lark Books, which is now publishing the Folkwear line, and they do have it -- for $14.95 plus $3.95 shipping. That feels a little pricey for a whim right now, so I'm not eager to buy it, yet. If anyone on this list has an old copy of the pattern they would be willing to part with at a reduced rate, I'd be interested. Email off-list please. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 10:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26115 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09809; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25073 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:23:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25067 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06490 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:23:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp201-9.worldonline.nl [195.241.201.9]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20631 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:23:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199910021523.RAA20631@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gardecorps (was Houppelande) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:23:06 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Claire wrote: > Perhaps they just evolved as a kind of status symbol (after all, they > do seem to have been worn largely by professional men). Looking at > manuscript pictures the sleeves of gardecorps vary wildly in length and > width. I wonder what a survey of gardecorps sleeve sizes correlated with > manuscript dates would reveal ie are the shorter skinnier ones all in > the early part of the 13th century? There appears during the 13th c a fairly narrow, slender surcotte with a hood and short sleeves to about mid forearm, not too wide at the cuff, which sleeves are also portrayed as hanging loose from the shoulder. In other words: there must be a slit in this sleeve, at about the same place as in a gardecorps sleeve. You see this surcotte also with the arms in the sleeves, but then the slit is not visible. The space in which you have to manoeuvre your arms through the slit looks to me to be pretty tight, but one day I'll have to try this out. The point is: this may be the forerunner of the gardecorps, were it not for the fact that they seem to be worn during the same period. I haven't as yet found a similar garment before ca 1230, though. You may ask yourself in the mean time: why would they want to have the arms free from these relatively short sleeves: they don't interfere with work... Funny guys, these medieval people... Henk > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 2 10:23:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26123 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11350; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26943 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:38:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26934 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (trt-on20-65.netcom.ca [207.181.87.65]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23581 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018201bf0ceb$fb8e0620$4157b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: References: <199910012358.TAA09810@hurontario.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: "sari silk" Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:36:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Vandy said.. > individual elements worked well, and the workmanship seemed to be exemplary. One of the fabrics used in > the skirts had a distinctly Jacobean flavour to it.It was a very heavy cream silk with a brocaded pattern, > and the sleeves were another heavy silk in red with a small all-over pattern in gold. > A bit of overkill, perhaps, but certainly some appealing fabrics! and then Susan said... >I think I know the outfit Vandy describes, and the silks are indeed >stunning, and have earned the lady who made the outfit a jealous glance or >twenty. (delurking abruptly) Geee...wouldn't I love it if this thread is actually talking about *my* dress, which I showed at an A&S comp last Saturday in Cookstown. Even if it ain't, I'll talk about it anyhow. Italian Renaissance dresses, c.1470. Underdress in crimson silk, knife pleats, with the bodice made from the heavily brocaded endpieces of the original sari, one side red, one side green, smooth as a glove. Overdress as described, cartridge pleated, heavy cream silk with a lovely flower pattern in silver and gold that's actually pretty period, long hanging sleeves in red with small repeating gold bars. The bodice of the overdress is a really richly brocaded red piece from the end of the white sari. The white is bordered top and bottom with red brocaded gold and silver. Completely handsewn with tiny wee stitches that owe a lot to the drone of David Usher (of Moist fame). And I am so happy about it that I almost want to have it insured. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 06:38:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23829 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 06:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01875; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22755 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22747 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA23354 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15745 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:51:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk/lottery In-Reply-To: <37F509B6.C2659832@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Ok, Margo and I will form the nucleus of the new Britex Strike Team -- > any other takers? Sure! I've always wanted to visit the place. "Textile Liberation Army" has a nice ring to it. :) Drea > > Meanwhile, for those with more lawful inclinations, I did see at Calico > Corners that they are selling 100% silk brocades, single colors, in > plausibly late medieval or early renaissance patterns. They are in the > swatches to order section, and are about $80/yard. (No, their website > does not list or show fabrics, alas.) > > cv > -- > For those going to Collegium in Cynagua next week, I'll be visiting and > doing a hat class. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 13:43:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24324 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06109; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04055 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:56:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04048 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11XqoS-000NIH-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:54:35 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk In-Reply-To: <19991001184510.NPCM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <19991001184510.NPCM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> , "R.L. Shep" writes > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >It is not a question of being *satisfied*. there are any number of silks >that can be used for sarees: mulberry, tussah, mugha as well as different >weights and weaves. >However it is nice to know what you are talking about. >~!~ R.L.Shep >http://www.rlshep.com > >---------- If you get actual silk in Indian cloth shops, you are very lucky. All those I've been into in the UK have a discreet sign near the door "All fabrics 100% polyester" They look so gorgeous, and it's so disappointing. -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:03:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24348 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08213; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06530 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:17:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06524 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:17:21 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CXEa26655 (3862) for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8896d195.2529059e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:16:46 EDT Subject: H-COST: Larger Ruffs- Elizabethan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Gentle List Okay, since I don't know what they're actually called, I'm going to call them "fairywing" ruffs. Can anyone suggest a book with step by step instructions on all manner of Elizabethan Ruffs with specific instructions on how one creates and supports those wonderful (they look wired) sheer ruffs that surround the back of the head and frame the face? I'd love to make a dress with such a ruff, but am unclear on how to best support it. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24361 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:23:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09700; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08551 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:37:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08535 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:31:00 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Larger Ruffs- Elizabethan Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:33:32 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37fbac6e.80318974@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <8896d195.2529059e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8896d195.2529059e@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA08542 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:16:46 EDT, the following was written in this electric book by MzScahlett@aol.com: >ns >on all manner of Elizabethan Ruffs with specific instructions on how one >creates and supports those wonderful (they look wired) sheer ruffs that >surround the back of the head and frame the face? > >I'd love to make a dress with such a ruff, but am unclear on how to best >support it. Period Costume For Stage and Screen Patterns for Women's Dress 1500 - 1800 Jean Hunnisett ISBN 0-88734-610-3 (on my copy, which is almost 8 years old) Since I'm unclear on which exactly you mean, I'll direct you to two: For the open-in-front-to-frame-the-cleavage type of sheer wired collar: Page 83, in the instructions for reproducing the Ditchley portrait of QE1. Clear illustrations for the wire frame and how it is attached to the bodice are given. For the wired-into-place-ruff: PP84-89, the chapter on making Ruffs. Particulary the illustration and text on page 84, describing open ruffs and the supportasse. Pages 85-89 cover the construction and maintenance of various types of ruffs, both simple theatrical and more likely (but still theatrical) reconstructions. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24372 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10059; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09305 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:43:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09297 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-44-59.stk.inreach.net [209.142.44.59]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12053 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F7B0E7.BEFC4FEC@inreach.com> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:39:19 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <37F57B4D.11E65C53@inreach.com> <37F5FACF.E119CDD7@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H Cynthia Virtue wrote: > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Diana H wrote many interesting things, and one for which I have a > different interpreation: > > > http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/weyden/p-weyden7.htm > > > > Check out the lady on the far right and you will see her wearing the > > > same thing again. You can also see that her dress is lined in a > > different colored fabric because it is flipped up. > > I don't think that is her skirt; I think it is another piece of cloth, > > perhaps a mantle, that is falling from around her shoulders and is > caught up on her skirt. The 'crucifiction inside a church' painting > has > another of these gathered mantles on the skirt. > > You can see what I think is the edge of the mantle in the folds > between > her knees -- which means that on her left knee we are seeing one side > of > it, and after the edge, we're seeing the turned-back edge of the > fabric, > and they are the same color. > Cynthia & List, I apologize for my haste in calling the contrasting fabric in this picture the lining of the skirt. Upon closer examination Cynthia is correct and the different colored fabric is indeed some type of mantle or other over-garment. In the picture I referenced about the three ladies maids, however, it clearly shows that the skirts were pulled up and a contrasting skirt lining is present. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24376 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:29:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10188; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09401 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:44:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09396 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:44:02 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HWIa29021 (3862) for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:43:29 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Larger Ruffs- Elizabethan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/3/1999 12:37:49 Pacific Daylight Time, rio@austin.rr.com writes: << Period Costume For Stage and Screen Patterns for Women's Dress 1500 - 1800 Jean Hunnisett ISBN 0-88734-610-3 (on my copy, which is almost 8 years old) >> Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction. Heck, I've even got the book, I don't know why I didn't think to check my library first! I think with all the talk of ruffs on the list awhile back, I was thinking of them more like corsets, with a separate resource being the only way to go. Okay, but now that you made it so easy to find, I've got to get started that much sooner! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 19:21:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24805 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:21:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06551; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12169 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:35:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12162 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991004003516.BOYA14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 17:35:16 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:30:28 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991004003516.BOYA14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" The Indians often like polyester because it is *wash and wear*. The first time I went to stay with a family in India I was told to bring polyester sarees from the US. I did and felt awful about it. They liked them for everyday sarees. But I finally bought my hostess a very fine silk saree there - which cost me about US$100 and she treasures it to this day. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Jean Waddie >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk >Date: Sun, Oct 3, 1999, 11:54 AM > > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >In message <19991001184510.NPCM14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> >, "R.L. Shep" writes >> >>-Poster: "R.L. Shep" >> >>It is not a question of being *satisfied*. there are any number of silks >>that can be used for sarees: mulberry, tussah, mugha as well as different >>weights and weaves. >>However it is nice to know what you are talking about. >>~!~ R.L.Shep >>http://www.rlshep.com >> >>---------- >If you get actual silk in Indian cloth shops, you are very lucky. All >those I've been into in the UK have a discreet sign near the door "All >fabrics 100% polyester" They look so gorgeous, and it's so >disappointing. >-- >Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 19:53:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24817 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09029; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15688 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:07:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15678 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.140]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18086 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:06:14 -0700 Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:06:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199910040106.SAA18086@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: missing messages Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Is there a problem with the list? After a weekend away, I have many fewer messages than I would normally expect, and a few of them seem to be responses to posts I haven't seen. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 3 23:17:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25240 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02819; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10062 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:29:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.leading.net (root@smtp.leading.net [207.98.192.90]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10056 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net (a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net [216.199.27.243]) by smtp.leading.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02456 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 00:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910040429.AAA02456@smtp.leading.net> From: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Date: Mon, 04 Oct 99 00:19:08 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 , Elysant asked several questions concerning the 14th century style of cotehardie, as worn in France. My apologies if this was answered already, but your last question struck a nerve: >And lastly, I am assuming that a loose sleeveless surcote of a more ornate or >heavier but complimentary fabric, perhaps trimmed with fur or trim would be >worn over the dress (below knee length and bell shaped). Am I correct? It sounds like you are describing a type of surcote I have heard described as a "Spanish Surcote". I have no idea if it was actually worn in period, as I haven't study Spanish styles and haven't run across it elsewhere, but my personal opinion is that it is a particularly unattractive style. The French surcotes I've seen pictures of were all floor length or longer (as were the cotehardies), mostly puddle-length. The precise cut of the top varied, getting narrower as time went on, and the skirts were all very full. The ones that don't appear to have a train are nearly all shown at the wrong angle for a train to be visible anyway. The fourteenth century, and the fifteenth as well, was an era in which people wanted to use as much costly fabric as possible in their gowns, to show off how rich they were. Your ideas for fabric and trimmings sound appropriate, and lovely. Regarding your other two questions: >Firstly, how and where is the dress fastened? I've heard arguments for closing the cotehardie under the arms, down the front, and down the back. Lacing is possible and acceptable for all of these, and buttoning is suitable for closing down the front. I don't like side lacing and can't think of any pictures where it looked like the gown laced there. I've not seen any sign in the pictures that gowns were closed up the front, but that could be simply artistic license. I close mine up the back with lacing, through holes set an inch apart from my waist or derriere up. I line and face the fabric, but don't find I need any boning. >Secondly, what kind of headgear would be worn with the gown if one is >attempting to depict a 14th century French Lady? A veil, certainly, topped with a circlet if appropriate or with a turret ( in SCA lingo, a pillbox). Gorgets don't seem to have been very popular, but the tight wimple seems to have been, at least with the older crowd. This is the one that actually appears to have been fitted and must have buttoned or laced closed somehow, assumably down the back. From the artwork I would have to say that it seems to have been very popular to wear one's hair so it showed -- generally in braids. Braids were rolled in buns, looped beside the face, or stuffed into metal cages to hang beside the lady's face. The era of "silly hats" had not yet come, a plus for those of us who can fit a cotehardie perfectly but grow faint at the thought of making one of THOSE creations! Yours in the Dream, Arianne de Dragonnid Shire of Castlemere, Kingdom of Trimaris %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "The founder of my noble line was wont to see Dragons. His Lady rode out from the forest in a gown of samite and was as young on the day he died as on their wedding day." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 01:07:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25332 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:07:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09686; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 00:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20847 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 00:19:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20839 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 00:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p133.amax8.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.133]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02590 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:19:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37F8467F.97C4D255@flash.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 01:17:35 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Medieval clothing glossary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Someone mentioned compiling a medieval clothing glossary. I stumbled across one at http://www.trail.com/~ri/garb.htm. I just did a quick glance (I was looking for something else) so I don't how good the page is. --Charlene -- If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 10:13:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22978 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21162; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17891 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:25:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17871 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17482 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:25:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp230-158.worldonline.nl [195.241.230.158]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11381 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:25:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199910041525.RAA11381@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: missing messages Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:26:00 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Margo wrote: > Is there a problem with the list? After a weekend away, I have many fewer > messages than I would normally expect, and a few of them seem to be > responses to posts I haven't seen. Me too: yesterday 5 mails, now 10, which is way below average... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 10:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22988 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:21:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23086; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21606 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:37:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21587 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991004154054.2190.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:40:54 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:40:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: missing messages To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > Me too: yesterday 5 mails, now 10, which is way > below average... See, now this is the ONLY message I have received today... odd Sarah > > Henk > > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 10:58:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23064 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:58:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01574; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01955 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:11:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01944 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.196] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A08B50F800FE; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:06:35 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01bf0e82$fe678e00$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: Subject: H-COST: Regency Trims Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:10:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0E61.767BBAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0E61.767BBAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cheers everyone! I'm looking for sources for trim that would be appropriate on an = 1810-ish evening gown. Im thinking of using a *lot* of small rosettes, = I'm not up to making them myself and the type you generally find in the = notions departments just seem a bit too "commercial-looking". Thanks for any and all info! ~*~Kerrie~*~ ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0E61.767BBAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cheers=20 everyone!
 
I'm looking for = sources for trim=20 that would be appropriate on an 1810-ish evening gown.  Im thinking = of=20 using a *lot* of small rosettes, I'm not up to making them myself and = the type=20 you generally find in the notions departments just seem a bit too=20 "commercial-looking".
 
Thanks for any and = all=20 info!
~*~Kerrie~*~
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0E61.767BBAA0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 11:19:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23152 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05310; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08838 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08820 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJ300BR379NJ2@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:32:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:41:43 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval clothing glossary In-reply-to: <199910041611.KAA02103@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991004114143.007b54c0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >Someone mentioned compiling a medieval clothing glossary. I stumbled >across one at http://www.trail.com/~ri/garb.htm. I just did a quick >glance (I was looking for something else) so I don't how good the page >is. Thank you, this is a very interesting attempt. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:47:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23465 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11401; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19635 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:53:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19591 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11YEAH-0003ae-0K; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:42:17 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: sca-garb@list.uvm.edu From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: More (New) Tudor Images (long) In-Reply-To: <37F4E8CC.6005@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <37F4E8CC.6005@uvm.edu>, Hope Greenberg writes > >-Poster: Hope Greenberg > >I've added a few more images to the Tudor dress page. This time the >images are taken from monumental brasses, a medium which, despite its >obvious limitations, often offers some interesting details. Check it out >at: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor > >- Hope Hope, I haven't looked at this page before. Some nice early Tudor stuff there, well done for picking it all out and putting it up. The Holbein "English Burgher's Wife" (the lady with the flyaway hat and bunched up skirts) is also in Ashelford's Visual History - 16th Century. I don't know if it's any clearer than in Lofts - the white strap appears to be pinned down, at the side of the bust, and certainly doesn't connect with the skirt hanger/girdle, which looks as if it disappears around her waist, but no more clues than that. The little girl in the Holbein sketch of a woman and her children - surely these are the same pleats as in "the famous back views", and they give the fullness to the skirt. I think, from looking at the front view of the "back views" (are you following?) and at the front two ladies of Thomas More's family, Elizabeth Dauncey and Margaret Roper, the way their skirts hang and move, I think they have the same centre back pleat construction. I am attempting to make a copy of Elizabeth Dauncey's dress, with this back construction and a box pleat at the front of either hip, which will somehow cunningly allow me to get in and out. It's been sitting in the cupboard since March when I injured my wrist, but when I manage to finish it I will let you know how it worked. Lady Guildford - I hadn't spotted that the sleeves were pleated, I had seen those as quilting lines. That's interesting. Presumably the pleating is basically decorative, as other people achieve the same shape of sleeve with non-pleated brocade. I have a question on something you may have figured out, but I haven't yet - how do you do that particular knot they use on girdles, that ends up with a loop sticking up? Margaret Roper has it, as does the middle lady in Princess Mary's pageants. Any ideas? Another book you may like to look at is the illustrated edition of Antonia Fraser's "Six Wives of Henry VIII", published 1996 by Weidenfeld and Nicholson, ISBN 029783567X. You may have picked them all up elsewhere, but it has some unusual pictures of the queens when young - "before they were famous". Thanks again for the resource, Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 16:26:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23637 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:26:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28139; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16777 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:39:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16739 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:40:29 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Age" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:38:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bf0eb0$c348bbe0$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" I've been happily reading "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" and blithly recommended it to Marc. I heard a rumor that Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" was finally translated into English. Does anyone know 1) the truth of this rumor or 2) what the English name of the book is. She also has another, the French name translates as something like "Costume at the Courts of Burgundy in the 14th & 15th c" that was written in the '70s." Has anyone seen or read it & would care to comment? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 16:46:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23649 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:46:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02311; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22116 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:01:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mlt.net (mail.mlt.net [209.168.11.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22106 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mackie.com ([209.168.18.190]) by mail.mlt.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52697U300L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:58:28 -0700 Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:04:35 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:04:04 -0700 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Age" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA22107 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Yes, it's been translated. I am pretty sure that "Dress in the Middle Ages" is the title of the translation. If you search the book sellers by the author's last name, it should come up. I have a copy, but haven't dug into it yet, so can't make a recommendation. Regards, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs Seattle, WA >>> "Cynthia Barnes" 10/04 2:38 PM >>> -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" I've been happily reading "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" and blithly recommended it to Marc. I heard a rumor that Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" was finally translated into English. Does anyone know 1) the truth of this rumor or 2) what the English name of the book is. She also has another, the French name translates as something like "Costume at the Courts of Burgundy in the 14th & 15th c" that was written in the '70s." Has anyone seen or read it & would care to comment? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:02:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23679 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04480; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25791 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:16:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25773 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03212 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ba01bf0eb6$8d711b60$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Age" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:19:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I've been happily reading "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" and blithly recommended >it to Marc. > >I heard a rumor that Dr. Piponniere's "Se Vetir Au Moyen Ages" was finally >translated into English. Does anyone know 1) the truth of this rumor or 2) >what the English name of the book is. She also has another, the French name >translates as something like "Costume at the Courts of Burgundy in the 14th >& 15th c" that was written in the '70s." Has anyone seen or read it & would >care to comment? Would this be "Dress in the Middle Ages"? If so, yes, it has been translated, and has been available for a couple of years now. The author's last name is definitely Piponniere. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:02:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23683 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:02:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04606; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26062 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:17:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26053 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-80.vci.net [207.162.169.80]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14190 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:17:10 -0500 Message-ID: <37F92810.2CD4EFF8@vci.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 17:20:00 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: useful links References: <199910041611.KAA02103@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Since I subbed to this list I have added a lot of great h-costume links to my bookmarks (many thanks to you all!) To clean up my bookmarks I posted a great many of them onto a page of my website. If you would like to look through them please go to http://www.vci.net/~schuck . If there are any you think I should add to that list, please send your recommendations to me privately. Thanks! jb schuck@vci.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:34:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23718 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:34:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08973; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04816 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:46:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04778 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17437 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-161.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.161]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16924 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01bf0ebb$9fac36c0$b944fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Catherine of Aragon Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:55:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have any idea what the white trim? is on her shoulders? It = almost looks like her corset shows through her armhole but after closer = inspection the paler fabric appears to be sewn on top. Since it is = undecorated and looks to be a lesser cost weave, I am very confused as = to what it's purpose is.=20 Michelle http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cathyold1.jpg ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have any idea what the = white trim?=20 is on her shoulders?  It almost looks like her corset shows through = her=20 armhole but after closer inspection the paler fabric appears to be sewn = on top.=20 Since it is undecorated and looks to be a lesser cost weave, I am very = confused=20 as to what it's purpose is.
Michelle

http://www.uvm.e= du/~hag/sca/tudor/cathyold1.jpg ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="cathyold1.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cathyold1.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cathyold1.jpg Modified=00685C1ABB0EBF0167 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0E80.EBBD07A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:37:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23726 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09809; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07350 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:52:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07341 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:52:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KIQa11143 (4330) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33f7c6e5.252a896f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:51:27 EDT Subject: H-COST: recycling, and a couple of questions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Several topics under one roof here. First, best "thrift shop" purchase(s): A fuchsia wool jacket, a taupe skirt with fuchsia print, fuchsia shoes (in my size), and a silk blouse -- a whole business ensemble (scattered throughout the shop) for about $50 -- it was pretty "upscale." Yesterday, at a street fair in Baltimore, I picked up some great costume jewelry and a wonderous dress -- 1920s antique, I think. Completely covered with blue/silver/gold bugle beads in an Art Deco design (background is blue). Long sleeves, scoop neck, no fastenings. Absolutely awesome -- I spotted it across the street and RAN. It was $20. No, it doesn't fit me (yet) but it may be a Christmas present for a friend, unless I decide to lose enough weight to fit into it. It requires NO HIPS. My friend who was with me suggested that I fasten it to the refrigerator to inspire me. Now, a couple of questions for the pros out there. 1) What iron would you recommend for costuming? I need something that will handle heavy-duty fabrics, velvets, as well as delicate sheers, do steaming, and is heavy enough to press down damasks. Any ideas? 2) I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. Recommendations? Thanks. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:49:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23738 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11972; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10515 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:05:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10483 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23542 invoked by alias); 4 Oct 1999 23:05:17 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 23536 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 1999 23:05:16 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 23:05:16 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991004180331.009788d0@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:05:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: a couple of questions In-Reply-To: <33f7c6e5.252a896f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" At 06:51 PM 10/04/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Now, a couple of questions for the pros out there. > >1) What iron would you recommend for costuming? I need something that will >handle heavy-duty fabrics, velvets, as well as delicate sheers, do steaming, >and is heavy enough to press down damasks. Any ideas? IRON--I have the EuroPro system and it works very well on all those items. Find one on sale. >2) I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much >quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something >versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I >really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. >Recommendations? SEWING MACHINE Buy a Bernina, even if it's used, it's better than anything else out there. >Thanks. >Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:01:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23785 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:01:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13418; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17827 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:16:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17816 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:16:42 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JMAa21483 (4158) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <247c6d70.252a8f26@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:15:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/4/1999 3:52:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. Recommendations? >> Kathleen, I'd recommend a Pfaff. I have a new machine that is a basic electronic (I wanted to stay away, but on modern machines, it's not an option). I prefer Pfaff due to the "walking foot" which is standard on their machines (if a model doesn't have one, don't buy it). The walking foot was originated by Pfaff, and will make sewing on velvets or plaids a breeze. Other good features are the button hole foot and program, which make buttonholes a snap; the needle down rest position (which toggles the needle into the fabric for turning corners) easy self threader; good bobbin winding... My sister in law also kindly lent me her Pfaff 1475, which is the computerized embroidery line (lower end) and it's been fun. I don't need all the bells and whistles, but having them, have found uses for many. I've been sewing on Pfaff for 25 years, and would never change, although Berninas are also an excellent buy. Sit down and make a list of what features you absolutely have to have. Then make a list of good manufacturers who make machines with those features. Then haggle. A lot. Enjoy~ angela+++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:22:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23798 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16476; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26024 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:37:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26009 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16344 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:35:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:35:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199910042335.QAA16344@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson The walking foot was originated by >Pfaff, and will make sewing on velvets or plaids a breeze. > This is a technical quibble, BUT: Pfaff originated the *built in* walking foot, which they call the "dual feed" system. Walking feet as attachments have been around for ages, and are available for most machines. As for an iron, I'd say don't fall for Rowenta's hype. Their ability to deliver a shot of steam is okay, not great, but they are made of a very brittle plastic. If you ever knock it off the ironing board, you can either kiss $150 goodbye, or pay almost that to get it repaired. I'm using a $35 Norelco until I can afford a Sussman gravity feed model. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23807 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16959; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26992 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:40:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26963 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:40:06 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6LHHDWfn3_ (4445) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:39:33 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/4/1999 4:38:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << This is a technical quibble, BUT: Pfaff originated the *built in* walking foot, which they call the "dual feed" system. >> Yeah, what Margo said! That's what I meant. Sewing machines are such a personal preference kinda thing. I love mine, but can't say there arent' other brands one could fall just as in love with... angela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:36:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23837 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:36:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18321; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02258 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02221 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991004234906.EEHU13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:49:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37F93CE9.9886C165@home.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:48:57 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I can't afford a Pfaff (don't I wish! I know a Laurel who *finally* bought a new one after using her old one for a good 20 years!!) so I bought a White Jeans Machine through an older man who sells them through the classifieds. He offers three years of free maintenance (first at your home, after at his but I live on his route so I got two years at my house!) and I was able to pay $40 down & $20 a month with a trade in on my old machine which was dead, dead, dead. I agree that you need to make a list of the options *you* want/need... for example, I simply MUST have a free arm... end of story! I also prefer to have a triple lock stitch but can live without an automatic buttonhole option (after all, my dh is a master buttonholer! ). I also have to have something that will hold up to being used 15 hours a day for weeks at a stretch. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23847 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:41:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18892; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06484 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:56:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06460 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32466 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:55:35 -0400 Message-ID: <37F93E77.200577F3@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:55:45 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: <199910042335.QAA16344@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I haven't had any structural problems when I drop my Rowenta, but I find that it doesn't get as hot as I want it to, and the safety features are a real annoyance. -- In 1977, when Elvis died, there were 48 professional Elvis impersonators. In 1996, there were 7,328. If this rate of growth does not change, in 2012, one person in four on the face of the Earth will be an Elvis impersonator! -- ZPG newsletter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:02:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23876 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21347; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13625 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:17:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13617 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:17:47 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QEPa14352 (4421) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.874405d4.252a9d8a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:17:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency Trims To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com You might want to consider artificial flowers. Check craft stores. Artificial flowers were being made professionally in France during the period. You won't get rosettes, but you might also check out drapery/upholstery trims. I've found some very nice ones. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:09:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23881 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22285; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14829 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:24:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14814 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22030 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199910050023.RAA22030@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:48 PM 10/04/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >I can't afford a Pfaff (don't I wish! I know a Laurel who *finally* >bought a new one after using her old one for a good 20 years!!) so I >bought a White Jeans Machine Yes! If all you need is a reasonable variety of utility stitches and rock solid dependability, the White Jeans Machine is IT! I wish I'd bought it instead of getting talked into the Viking. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 20:26:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24067 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:26:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00174; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27190 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:41:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27175 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04603; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-36.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.36]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24109; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801bf0ed4$075aa5a0$567bfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "ÃÖº¸À±" , "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Re: How can i post massage? Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:50:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Choibo-yun, Welcome to the list. To post to the list you will need to type in h-costume@indra.com and it will get to all of us. Where are you from? Michelle -----Original Message----- From: ÃÖº¸À± To: Michelle Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:47 PM Subject: How can i post massage? >Hellow? >my name is choibo-yun... Nice meet you.. >I subscribe H-costume yesterday... >I want to post massage in H-costume but I don't know how to do... >Please.. the way to post massage... >Bye... >================================================== >NO. 1 ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, ´ÙÀ½ >Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀÏ³Ý >http://www.daum.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:01:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24120 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03586; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05314 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:16:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05285 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910050216.UAA05285@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 3203 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 20:16:16 -0600 Received: from ts26-02.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.116) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 20:16:16 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:23:11 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I love my Rowenta. It fell on the floor (carpeted) and the base came up on one side. I took the hammer (what did I have to loose) and beat it back in place. Still ticking!!! The iron I miss, is a metal Sears and Roebuck that I bought at a yard sale for 50 cents. I came home one day to my DH's plea's for forgiveness. He knocked the ironing board and the S&R iron fell to the ground. It must of hit just right, because it came completely apart. Hmmmm let me see, I got the Rowenta right after that...... I have since purchased, from Clothilde, one of those nifty iron holders that screw onto the end of the board. With a sewing room as small as mine, I am constantly moving the board from place to place, and the near misses were driving me to distraction. Currently I own a (2) old metal Necchi's and one Singer school machine. My mom has a Bernina that I have sewn on in the past. I love my oldest Necchi, and will keep it. The others will be traded in on something new next year. Bernina? White? Another Necchi? I haven't started shopping yet. Don't you wish that they made a basic machine that had an automatic button-hole? I hate the thought of having to buy all those embroidery stitches just for that. Kathlene ---------- > From: Cynthia Virtue > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines > Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:55 PM > > > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > I haven't had any structural problems when I drop my Rowenta, but I find > that it doesn't get as hot as I want it to, and the safety features are > a real annoyance. > > -- > In 1977, when Elvis died, there were 48 professional Elvis > impersonators. In 1996, there were 7,328. If this rate of growth does > not change, in 2012, one person in four on the face of the Earth will be > an Elvis impersonator! -- ZPG newsletter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:11:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24137 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04854; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14768 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:26:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14753 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.237]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991005022610.VXEI26062@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:26:10 +0000 Message-ID: <37F961FF.A201F73@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:27:11 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: <247c6d70.252a8f26@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/4/1999 3:52:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Appin1@aol.com > writes: > > << I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much > quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something > versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but > I > really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. > Recommendations? > >> > > Kathleen, > > I'd recommend a Pfaff. I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for New Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! Irons: I have a Rowenta and haven't had any problems with it even after dropping it several times. Much better than the Black and Decker I used to own, but it *was* old. Look around and find features you want. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:25:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24153 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06415; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16885 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:39:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from host.vivid.net (ns.vivid.net [206.65.48.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16872 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.195.11.132] (pm-atl-2-132.nbank.net [209.195.11.132]) by host.vivid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18529 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: WendyC@mail.vivid.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37F961FF.A201F73@worldnet.att.net> References: <247c6d70.252a8f26@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:50:59 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wendy Colbert Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Wendy Colbert >-Poster: Carolyn Richardson >I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that >doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for >New Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! My preference is Elna. I really like my Elna Diva that I bought used. >Irons: I have a Rowenta and haven't had any problems with it even after >dropping it several times. Much better than the Black and Decker I used >to own, but it *was* old. Look around and find features you want. > I like my Rowenta, I put it on my wish list and I got it as a birthday present from my husband- my old iron was slowly falling to bits- literally. Wendy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:39:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24186 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:39:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08173; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19127 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:54:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19117 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:54:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VREa08594 (4358) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3eeb96ae.252ac242@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:53:54 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: periods you hate To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I agree with Albert Cat as usual -- when I see a period done right, with the right fabrics and cut and trims and accessories (and of course, underpinnings), I like just about everything. I love that feeling I get when I see something done right for the first time and think, "So THAT was the idea." Examples of such things: powdered wigs, 1830s woman's sleeves, panniers, bustles. Periods I have yet to see that with: anything ancient Greek or Roman. The charms of those elude me, although I'm sure there were some. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 22:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24225 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12858; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26036 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:37:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26026 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k448.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.48]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA08763 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F971F5.270C@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:35:17 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: sewing machines References: <247c6d70.252a8f26@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi > << I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much > quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something > versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I know I'm not the only cheap, er poor person on the list but I can't imagine paying $1000 or more for a sewing machine! These can't be the same people who won't pay more than $.50 a yd for fabric (as someone wrote recently on the Men's list) :-> Anything costs that much, I'd better be able to drive it! What on earth do these things *do* to justify the price? Mop the floor and change the baby!? No seriously, what special things do they do? (My "new" machine is 14 or 15 years old. Got it at Penney's because it was solid metal and I could make payments. $200. I needed a zig-zag to mend the kids clothes and my old machine was only straight stitch. I still haven't used all the feet/stitches on it. The old machine is about 50, only does straight stitch, back and forth, has a zillion attachments, most of which I still haven't figured out. I've used both of them a lot and they just keep going!) What am I missing? Susan F. (ok, I do spend ungodly amounts on good fabric) -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 22:38:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24263 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15069; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28261 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28254 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.168] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YLfr-0002w1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:53:59 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:51:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines In-Reply-To: <37F971F5.270C@netwiz.net> References: <247c6d70.252a8f26@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I have my old Riccar, which was my first 'on-my'-own' adult purchase, at $200, and we've been sewing more or less happily ever since--that was in the early-mid-60's. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 23:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24324 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19680; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:48:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05586 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:48:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05575 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:42:06 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:44:41 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <3802808c.107443743@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199910050216.UAA05285@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <199910050216.UAA05285@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id WAA05576 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:23:11 -0600, the following was written in this electric book by "K & J Hopkins" : >Don't you wish that they made a basic machine that had an automatic >button-hole? I hate the thought of having to buy all those embroidery >stitches just for that. My white Jeans Machine has a set of autoamtic buttonhole stitches, and hardly any fancy embroidery (ducks?!?). Most of the stitches are your basics plus some hem and stretch stitches. I've used it to mend stretch leggings when a serger wasn't available. It was $200 new. I've had this one for 4 years, no tuneup needed, and I sew nearly constantly. I've dropped it (about 2 years ago) and I'm hardly what one would call nice to this machine, and it *still* works fine. I had the earlier version of this same model for about 5 years before that, and loaned it to my sister when her new Singer burst into flames (not an exaggeration) and I was married to a man with several sewing macines, so mine was 'extra'. She wouldn't give it back :> So I got a new one. She's had to have the old one tuned once, but that's it. If you are looking for a good little workhorse that can take nearly ANYTHING, and has a reasonably automatic buttonhole stitch set, this is it. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 4 23:48:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24337 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:48:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20692; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07325 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:03:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA07319 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17380 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 05:05:04 -0000 Received: from 85.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.85) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 05:05:04 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991004220528.4917f67c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Hoefnagel's "Fete at Bermondsey", was H-COST: 16thCen bodices not matching skirts... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:19 AM 9/30/99 -0700, Margo Anderson wrote: > >>There are a couple of mismatched bodices and skirts on the figures >>in the "Fete at Bermondsey" by Joris Hoefnagel... (I think I've heard >>it referred to as the "Wedding at Bermondsey too?) > [snip] > >Failing that, Teddy, do you recall a price on that poster version? I assume >it's not available in the US, but perhaps we could work something out? > > >Margo Anderson Make that two, if you can, Teddy. I'm tired of trying to make out details on a little, teeny copy of the painting in my reference books. One mailing would suffice, though, since Margo and I are regional "neighbors". Thanks, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 00:02:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24359 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21837; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08967 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:17:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08955 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:17:46 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZAFjfLiP_ (3896) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45449d73.252ae3d8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:17:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com << I'd recommend a Pfaff. (huge snip)>> << I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for New Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! >> Carolyn, Pfaff is currently owned by Singer, which I doubt is going under any time soon. The company has filed for reorganization/protection from creditors, which is true of perhaps a third of the corporations in this country and abroad at any given time. Aside from that, what I said was that it was a wonderful machine, and I went on to mention several other brands. I also said that it's a personal preference. That said, after doing almost a month's research, I spent a whopping $750 for my first Pfaff in 1972, and I got 25 wonderful years from it --- until I treated myself to a new machine 2 years ago. It's true they are expensive, as are most of the higher end machines, but most places WILL haggle, just like with a car. I paid something like half of "retail" for my current machine. It really depends on what you want from a sewing machine. I'm just very very happy with mine and would not consider owning anything else. There are many many boards run by most of the major sewing machine companies, on which are discussed the merits and drawbacks of many of that company's models. Before buying any machine, I would recommend the purchaser ask a lot of questions, make a list of desired features, and then compare prices of machines which have those features currently on the market. There is also the possibility of buying a used/reconditioned machine, which would substantially lower the price. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "I have no other but a woman's reason: I think him so, because I think him so." Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 00:36:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24373 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:36:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23973; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12562 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:51:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12555 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA17995 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:56:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:56:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: old discussion: wearing corsets In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991004220528.4917f67c@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> A while ago, I posted to this list with a question about dealing with scoliosis and a corset that made my back ache. Working on the advice of some list members, I made a new Elizabethan corset and have just completed a 4-hour test wear without even a twinge. I've yet to wear it for a full day, but so far things are looking promising. I thought I'd share my changes with the list in case anyone else is suffering from the same or similar difficutlies. The old corset: 4-piece wench-style bodice, steel strapping tape boning in front only, front lacing. The boning was sewn into channels in the interfacing as follows (one half): One piece on each side of the lacing holes, two shorter pieces fanning out slightly from the bottom the new corset: Essentially the same cut as the old one, but with a longer center point, wood boning throughout, back lacing. The boning is 1/8 inch wood dowels (pretending to be bamboo from a placemat--an idea from this list from a year or more ago), usually sewn in pairs as follows: six going straight up and down center front, two angling out from there, gwo more parallel with the previous two, splitting the difference between the previous two and the five or so sewn along the side seams, and then two on either side of the lacing holes in back. I had originally thought that because the problem with my back was that the corset was forcing it straight (scoliosis has my spine curving gently), the solution was to use a *lighter* corset. This seems to be false. The boning used is less flexable than the first corset, and more abundant, and I wore it all evening without complaint. I hope that was somewhat comprehensible. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 00:41:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24379 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:41:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24524; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13190 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:57:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13175 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:52:23 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:52:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" [snip] Currently I own a (2) old metal Necchi's and one Singer school machine. My mom has a Bernina that I have sewn on in the past. I love my oldest Necchi, and will keep it. The others will be traded in on something new next year. Bernina? White? Another Necchi? I haven't started shopping yet. Don't you wish that they made a basic machine that had an automatic button-hole? I hate the thought of having to buy all those embroidery stitches just for that. -- They did. The Janome 'MyStyle'. I got mine eleven years ago, and it has 16 stitches (three of which are buttonhole). These days, I think they have 20 stitch machines, but my old one hasn't missed a beat :-) Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 03:11:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20801 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01748; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA25768 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:26:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from out2.prserv.net (out2.prserv.net [165.87.194.229]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25761 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lgreene (slip139-92-73-97.par.fr.ibm.net [139.92.73.97]) by out2.prserv.net (/) with SMTP id IAA41940 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:26:47 GMT From: "LGreene" To: Subject: H-COST: Costume resources in NYCity Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:43:44 +0200 Message-ID: <002101bf0f0b$f6c18dc0$61495c8b@lgreene> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LGreene" Hi all - can anyone recommend a great costume shop or costumer in New York City? I am organizing a New Year's Eve trip to Paris that includes the Bal du Roy at the Chateau of Versailles, and I have some people in New York City who need a costumer so they can come in period (18th century) costume. Thanks! Lauriann --------------------------------------------- Gilded Age Tours: http://www.gildedagetours.com Custom-Designed Tours of Paris and France, including Flea Market Tours, Personal Shopping, and Wine Tasting/French Wine Country Tours. Room still available on our Millenium New Year's Eve at Versailles Tour of Paris! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 05:51:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21014 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:51:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08410; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA02951 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:07:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02945 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGRWSTO0I8002MKX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:12:21 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGRWSOC6O8001PRH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:11:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:04:03 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:03:57 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:02:15 +1100 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:02:15 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Sari Silk In-reply-to: <199910041611.KAA02103@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <6132544453D@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > - -Poster: Jean Waddie > If you get actual silk in Indian cloth shops, you are very lucky. > All those I've been into in the UK have a discreet sign near the > door "All fabrics 100% polyester" They look so gorgeous, and it's > so disappointing. Either that or the people in the shop have no idea of the fibre content of the fabrics and will happily sell them as silk or cotton if they *look* like silk or cotton regardless of the actual mix of fibres used in them. I've had to take back fabrics before now, because they were sold to me as 100% cotton (I asked specifically and explained that I wanted to dye them) and they were mixes with synthetics so didn't take the dye. Many of the staff (and owners) of these shops have no idea about fibres. hey just stock wheat *looks* good and they know they can sell to a public who, by and large, wouldn't care about the fibre content themselves. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 07:30:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21154 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14330; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12190 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:44:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12183 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:44:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KJLa04068 (4223) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8ab013a3.252b4c9c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:44:12 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: sewing machines To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Wow, I wish I'd heard that advice about the White Jeans Machine two years ago when I bought my last machine. I was getting sick of having my Bernina tuned up all the time (pretty much any time we used it to quilt with -- and because my husband makes padded Charles le Blois-style gambesons, that was a lot). Out of desperation I bought a used Viking sewing school machine. It was refurbished and certified and everything, and I assumed that it would take a lot of abuse. It cost about $175, and the sewing machine store woman sneered at me the whole time because I wasn't even looking at the new machines that cost about $1,000. Well, it's worked fine, except that it's very picky about thread -- it only sews with the expensive kind. I had to take it back in because the thread snarled almost constantly, and the staff was mystified -- until someone remembered that another Viking had had the same problem, which vanished as soon as they put that German cone thread on it. They got some and demonstrated it, and of course it worked perfectly. Well, being a skeptical sort, I suspected foul play. But it's really true. Stick on a spool of Dual Duty, and I'm sunk. So now I scout for sales and whenever possible I only sew with black and white thread, because you can get it in bigger spools. It's not a big problem, but it is a bit of a pain. So there's something else to look out for when buying a machine! Gail Finke Who read in the newspaper the other day that only 5% of U.S. households own sewing machines. Doubting that it's really true . . . _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 07:58:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21195 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17102; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15648 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:13:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15643 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.155] (confused@ip155.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.155]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15339 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910051307.JAA15339@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:18:06 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais I have to say that the premium thread requirement is something that many upscale machines are known for. If you are having problems, also try using Groz-Beckert or Sullivan's needles. I find they are much more tolerant than Schmetz (and in many cases less expensive). G-B polishes the insides of the eyes of the needles, and they have a longer scarf (the flat depression that coincides with the hook of the machine, so the machine can be slightly out of time and still function) and a deeper groove for the thread, allowing less perfect thread to be used. When I go over a machine, though, I test it with Organ brand needles. They are reasonable in price, and are the brand packed with almost all new machines. (about $3 for 10 needles) When I was teaching the children's sewing classes, and we did the unit on t-shirts I had the students do the hems with double needles. The G-B double needles worked perfectly the first time - the Schmetz would often have to be "tweaked" to get them to not skip stitches. This was on the student's machines, not perfectly tuned floor models. If your machine has a four-step buttonhole and you want to make life a little easier, ask your local machine dealer for a foot with an adjustable gauge that measures the button. They are under $5, and make sure that all your buttonholes are the same size. It makes life much easier! Lisee Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >Wow, I wish I'd heard that advice about the White Jeans Machine two years >ago >when I bought my last machine. I was getting sick of having my Bernina tuned >up all the time (pretty much any time we used it to quilt with -- and >because >my husband makes padded Charles le Blois-style gambesons, that was a lot). >Out of desperation I bought a used Viking sewing school machine. It was >refurbished and certified and everything, and I assumed that it would take a >lot of abuse. It cost about $175, and the sewing machine store woman sneered >at me the whole time because I wasn't even looking at the new machines that >cost about $1,000. Well, it's worked fine, except that it's very picky about >thread -- it only sews with the expensive kind. I had to take it back in >because the thread snarled almost constantly, and the staff was mystified -- >until someone remembered that another Viking had had the same problem, which >vanished as soon as they put that German cone thread on it. > >They got some and demonstrated it, and of course it worked perfectly. Well, >being a skeptical sort, I suspected foul play. But it's really true. Stick >on >a spool of Dual Duty, and I'm sunk. So now I scout for sales and whenever >possible I only sew with black and white thread, because you can get it in >bigger spools. It's not a big problem, but it is a bit of a pain. > >So there's something else to look out for when buying a machine! > >Gail Finke >Who read in the newspaper the other day that only 5% of U.S. households own >sewing machines. Doubting that it's really true . . . > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:08:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21274 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:08:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25313; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27030 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:22:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27022; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910051422.IAA27022@net.indra.com> From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >1) What iron would you recommend for costuming? Rowenta Professional, if you're willing to kick in that much money. I have the next model down and have been very happy w/ it for tailoring. The Professional was available for use at a class I tool recently; it can really develop a head of steam (at many temp levels); great for steam shaping curved sleeves, lapel roll lines & the like. >2) I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. I adore my Viking 1+. If your skill is beyond your current machine's ability AND you want to use all the features, this is the last machine you will ever need (*). The major downside is that all the extras are pricey. I've enjoyed reverse-engineering mine. The embroidery design S/W from Viking is cruddy. I've offered a "garb for GUI" exchange to an SCA gent with a penchant for programming. We'll see... The Bernina, & Elna embroidery machines do nicely, too. I've used both when at "Stitch & Bitch" gatherings at friends' houses. * mostly, I still keep the ancient kenmore for really tough projects like jeans, leather, kevlar (repairing fencing jackets)as I'd rather not bang the Viking out of alignment. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:35:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21406 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01064; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04279 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:50:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04266 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.34] (ell248.acadia.net [205.217.210.104]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13533 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:01:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Don't you think that was part of her role? I think the effect was intended -- (both for Chaplin and Dunaway.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21417 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:41:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02663; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06187 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:56:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.seismosoc.org (postmaster@mail.seismosoc.org [216.15.105.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06181 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.15.105.52] (216.15.105.52) by mail.seismosoc.org with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.2); Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:56:28 -0700 X-Sender: janice@mail.seismosoc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910051313.HAA15681@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:56:18 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Janice Sellers Subject: H-COST: Paid Costuming Gig Opportunity in SF Bay Area Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Sellers I don't know if this has ever been posted to the list, but if it was, apparently no one ever called. Ft. Mason Drawing Class Looking for Costumed Models The Fort Mason Art Center is looking for costumed models to pose for a Monday night drawing class. They are looking for a completely different costume each week; they might possibly hire a model more than once providing a different costume is worn. Both men and women are needed. Age and body size are not determinants. The class is held from 6-9 p.m. Models are given breaks every 20 minutes. Pay is $40 cash. The current class started September 13 and runs for fourteen weeks. After this quarter ends, there is a break and then a new fourteen-week session starts. The class has been ongoing for seven years. The students in these classes are serious artists. The class is held in the Fort Mason Art Center at Laguna and Marina Blvd. in San Francisco. Free parking is available in the Fort Mason parking lot. If you are interested, call Electra Long at (510) 594-9604. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:50:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21427 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:50:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04688; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:05:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09260 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:05:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09229 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:05:33 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip41.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.41]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id IAA11577 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910051505.IAA11577@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:05:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - separate sari trim Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990924115204.00bf4c60@pop.slip.net> References: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Some sari stores have separate gold-threaded trim, available only in like > 9-yard hunks. Sometimes these border trims show up in trim places for more > per yard than the sari stores sell it for, but they will cut to length > where the sari stores won't. Anyway, a few of these trims have appropriate > patterns for Ren. use. Use these and knock 'em dead with real gold (real > gold plate over copper wire). It depends on the shop. In Vancouver, BC we go to one in the Punjabi market (2 blocks of sari shops starting at 49th and Main) called Sahda Saree House where many of us regularly go to get drop dead trims. They will sell you as much as you want. I've been known to get whole rolls (20-30 yards each. They don't call me Kat-by-the-bolt for nothing!) Their prices seem to be better than other shops which don't sell as much volume in trim. The patterns have to be chosen judiciously but I've found ones which look great on Byzantines, 12th Century, Italian, Tudor and Elizabethan (of course, not the same trim for all of them.) If you're not used to looking at the designs, get some xeroxes of the designs in sculptures, manuscripts, paintings and textiles from the time period you are interested in and take them with you to compare. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:52:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21431 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05143; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09775 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09765 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00218 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:12:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:12:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: "'H-costume'" Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > [snip again] > Don't you wish that they made a basic machine that had an automatic > button-hole? I hate the thought of having to buy all those embroidery > stitches just for that. > > -- > > They did. > > The Janome 'MyStyle'. I got mine eleven years ago, and it has 16 stitches > (three of which are buttonhole). Also, there's an attachment for the old Singers that does buttonholes automatically. Straight and buttonhole, that's all I can do. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:59:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21435 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06725; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12132 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:14:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12120 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.158] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YWIa-0004R4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:14:40 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:11:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines In-Reply-To: <199910051307.JAA15339@williams.tricreations.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:18 AM 10/05/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais > >I have to say that the premium thread requirement is something that many >upscale machines are known for. If you are having problems, also try >using Groz-Beckert or Sullivan's needles. When I >go over a machine, though, I test it with Organ brand needles. They are >reasonable in price, and are the brand packed with almost all new >machines. (about $3 for 10 needles) >Lisee Hi, Lisee--Where do I order these, if my local JoAnn's/Hancock's don't stock them? Thanx! Gr/ainne / Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 10:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21447 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08092; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14354 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:22:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14343 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Tue Oct 5 08:21:21 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:21:21 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Wow, Daddy-O, a Zoot Suit Pattern! X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.14 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" Vogue has done it...from the pictures on the pattern (photos of the finished product), their new zoot suit is on the money! It looks like a fairly exact copy of the (oh-so-cool and stylish) El Pachuco zoot suit. Unlike the Simplicity pattern where the photos showed their suit not hanging quite right (though the drawing looked ok), the photos in the catalogue look great. I haven't made it (heck, I just bought it yesterday), but I did read the pattern instructions. It covers some tailoring details, but it's a bit on the skimpy side--I would add more interfacing, tape the lapels and probably substitute high-grade iron-on interfacing on the collar rather than using felt. I'd suggest referring to a tailoring guide if this doesn't make sense to you. So, bottom line: as long as the Vogue pattern pieces fit together (which I imagine they will) it's a winner. The pants are terrific, the jacket looks great! Skip the Simplicity pattern--it's just an oversized suit and will not be as flattering... Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 10:09:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21452 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:09:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08520; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14914 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:24:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14901 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p20.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.20]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14135 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:23:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37FA1A91.E90735F5@mail.brightok.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:34:41 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Bernina Abuse References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders I also have been looking at new machines. I'll have to place my vote with the Bernina as it has served me well. Basically I've decided that my old 930 Bernina is still the best on the market. The problem is I lost the power cord and foot press (the go pedal). I left it on a job in another town and it was never found. Does anyone have a bernina to sell or part out? It will cost me big bucks to replace and the machine has been used and abused for years. It has sewn for 8 hours a day for 20 years with never a problem. I just don't want to trash it but don't want to spend too much on replacement parts. New machines are also too high. I don't pay that much for cars! Jewelry and fabric, well that's another story :) Thanks, Ninya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 11:30:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21561 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:30:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21729; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15716 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:41:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15697 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11866 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 16:41:47 -0000 Received: from i48-05-44.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO teleport.com) (216.26.3.44) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 16:41:47 -0000 Message-ID: <37FA27FF.9C5936C6@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:31:59 -0700 From: stephen fairman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: <45449d73.252ae3d8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: stephen fairman MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > << I'd recommend a Pfaff. (huge snip)>> > > Aside from that, what I said was that it was a wonderful machine, and I went > on to mention several other brands. I also said that it's a personal > preference. . It's true they > are expensive, as are most of the higher end machines, but most places WILL > haggle, just like with a car. > > T > the possibility of buying a used/reconditioned machine, which would > substantially lower the price. > > angela > > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Costumes & Custom Clothing > Theatrical Costume Design > There is also ebay. I was just checking it and I found several Pfaff's for as low as $50 bid. I have used a Pfaff 260 for ten years, sewing wool cloaks and I love it. My household now owns one Pfaff 260, a 230, an industrial, and a treadle machine. We will be buying another used Pfaff in the near future as my son-in-law just let it out that he likes to sew (He hid this information for over a year!) Esteban McLachan Shadow's Treasure Chest http://www.cyberis.net/~fairman1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 11:43:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21577 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:43:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23840; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21251 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:57:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1304.mail.yahoo.com (web1304.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21220 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991005170133.8732.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web1304.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:01:33 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan Irvine --- Cynthia Barnes wrote: > * mostly, I still keep the ancient kenmore for > really tough projects like > jeans, leather, kevlar (repairing fencing jackets)as > I'd rather not bang the > Viking out of alignment. Really! I have an ancient Kenmore that I inherited and I keep wondering when it's going to break (so I can replace it with something yummy) but it never breaks no matter how many layers of heavy canvas or leather I try to force through it! I did not know that this was a feature of the ancient Kenmores. I thought they were low-end machines. Maybe I should treat mine with more respect. mirv ===== Megan Irvine _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 11:56:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21593 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26184; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02567 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:10:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA02553 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:10:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Tue Oct 5 10:09:50 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:09:50 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Wow, Daddy-O, a Zoot Suit Pattern! X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.145.108 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" Oops--I forgot to include the pattern number--2367. You can't miss it, it's on the cover of Vogue's new pattern book, on the inside cover (with the Vintage Vogue pictures) and then in the men's section! the models look great--wearing two-toned shoes, pointy-collared shirts, chains, and vintage ties, too (though I fault them on their clip-on suspenders--tacky)! Unfortunately, their website hasn't been updated to include it. Hasta, swingers! Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:21:21 Firefly wrote: > >-Poster: " Firefly" > >Vogue has done it...from the pictures on the pattern (photos of the finished product), their new zoot suit is on the money! It looks like a fairly exact copy of the (oh-so-cool and stylish) El Pachuco zoot suit. Unlike the Simplicity pattern where the photos showed their suit not hanging quite right (though the drawing looked ok), the photos in the catalogue look great. > >I haven't made it (heck, I just bought it yesterday), but I did read the pattern instructions. It covers some tailoring details, but it's a bit on the skimpy side--I would add more interfacing, tape the lapels and probably substitute high-grade iron-on interfacing on the collar rather than using felt. I'd suggest referring to a tailoring guide if this doesn't make sense to you. > >So, bottom line: as long as the Vogue pattern pieces fit together (which I imagine they will) it's a winner. The pants are terrific, the jacket looks great! Skip the Simplicity pattern--it's just an oversized suit and will not be as flattering... > >Mary > >--- >Visit my homepage: >http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 12:30:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21645 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:30:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02120; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:44:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29590 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:43:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from access2.mountain.net (root@Access2.mountain.net [198.77.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29511 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from woodenporch.com (AM17-28.NewMartinsville-WV.Mountain.Net [198.77.13.227]) by access2.mountain.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA14259 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA0185.E328CBFD@woodenporch.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:48:05 +0000 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: books on ebay References: <199910051313.HAA15681@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lois We've decided to move to Florida and I will be selling my book stock. I have about 3000 books dealing with costume and textiles. I've listed and will be listing many books dealing with historic costume on ebay. My ebay address (bookmark it and check back frequently): http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=books7 Right now I have several titles on history of costume, Costume (Journal of Costume Society of England), Dress (Journal of Costume Society of America), Godey's, Peterson's, Harper's Bazar (the last one listed- 1892 - has a tissue over-lay pattern for several garments), needlework, textiles, fashion and more. Thanks Elizabeth for letting me mention this. Lois --------------- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 12:34:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21649 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:34:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02697; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04982 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:47:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04902 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cheeks.excite.com ([199.172.152.207]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991005174700.XNJF2683.gigi@cheeks.excite.com> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:47:00 -0700 From: "Jennifer McNitt" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! Message-Id: <939145619.21394.4@excite.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:46:59 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 163.231.237.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jennifer McNitt" This weekend I went to the Walmart here in Apple Valley, MN and found that they had the velveteen for sale also. The Walmart in Eagan, MN did not. The color selection was good, but for every color I wanted, they only had 5 yrd. bolts. I need more than this for the dress I would like to make next. What was interesting though, was that they had a navy rayon (I think) velvet marked as velveteen and it was priced the same as the velveteen. Jen ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 12:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21662 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:49:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04734; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19730 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:02:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19685 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:02:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:54:40 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Wow, Daddy-O, a Zoot Suit Pattern! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: " Firefly" > >Oops--I forgot to include the pattern number--2367. You can't miss it, >it's on the cover of Vogue's new pattern book, on the inside cover (with >the Vintage Vogue pictures) and then in the men's section! the models >look great--wearing two-toned shoes, pointy-collared shirts, chains, and >vintage ties, too (though I fault them on their clip-on >suspenders--tacky)! Unfortunately, their website hasn't been updated to >include it. > >Hasta, swingers! > >Mary Not to mention that Joann's has Vogue patterns on sale for 70% off for the next 2-3 weeks!! LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 13:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21802 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09854; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17206 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:36:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17165 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.230] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YZRb-0003kQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:36:11 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005105740.00bda160@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991005105740.00bda160@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:06:01 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows ><> > >Don't you think that was part of her role? I think the effect was intended >-- (both for Chaplin and Dunaway.) Granted that the Queen's dresses were poofier than the other character's were, but switch the dresses and you'd get the same effect. The actress with the larger frame could carry the extra poofyness better than the one with smaller bones. The fashion then was for bigger women than are fashionable today, and the style really accommodates larger sized bodies. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:02:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21829 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15184; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06490 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:15:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06467 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16482 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:15:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines In-Reply-To: <37F971F5.270C@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Susan Fatemi wrote: > I know I'm not the only cheap, er poor person on the list > but I can't imagine paying $1000 or more for a sewing machine! > These can't be the same people who won't pay more than $.50 > a yd for fabric (as someone wrote recently on the Men's list) > :-> Anything costs that much, I'd better be able to drive it! LOL! I can relate... For several years, I used my great-grandmother's old Featherweight Singer, keeping it well-oiled and cleaned out. It worked just fine; I eventually was given a new Singer by my DH for Christmas -- no computer chips, just the top-of-the-line of the non-computerized models. Probably cost about $350, though I didn't ask. It'll do everything I need it to, and it has more metal parts than the cheaper models. I recently bought the walking foot attachment to do some quilting and velvet stuff. > What on earth do these things *do* to justify the price? > Mop the floor and change the baby!? No seriously, what > special things do they do? I imagine, from what I've seen in 'Threads' magazine, that they do a lot of the computer embroidery stuff. Personally, the computerized embroidery looks computerized to me -- I prefer the hand-done stuff. But if you had to get something done in a hurry, I could see the point of having such. -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:13:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21836 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17057; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10515 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10483 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:27:12 -0600 (MDT) From: tylerweiss@excite.com Received: from mystic.excite.com ([199.172.152.98]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991005192641.YUDM27120.ewey@mystic.excite.com> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:26:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: sewing machines Message-Id: <939151601.10418.320@excite.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:26:41 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 198.151.12.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: tylerweiss@excite.com ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21844 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17889; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12453 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:32:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12439 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:32:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NSRSNXky_ (4186) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2482ef67.252bac3f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:32:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com Hi Folks, I own an older Viking Mechanical. It has lots of doodads, including the automatic buttonholer. I went through 3 machines before I settled on this one. An old warhorse of a Singer, a White, & now my Viking. They are all tough! I purchased my Viking on layaway from a vacuum shop. It was a great deal. Look through consumer reports on sewing machines before you take the plunge. Good luck to you. I'm still looking for a Singer Featherweight w/all the attachments. We all have our dreams. Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:24:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21856 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18693; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13758 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:38:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13740 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA14850.; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:44:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:37:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:37:10 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA13744 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I'm skinny and flat-chested and don't think my 1640s outfits make me look any fatter. After all, Queen Henrietta Maria was petite. Actually, I consider the style quite flattering to large ladies. It's many years since I saw "The 3 Musketeers", but didn't Geraldine Chaplin play the Queen of France? Why should they have wanted to make her look larger? Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, Sealed Knot _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21873 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19135; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14640 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:42:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14625 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:42:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NLHa15800 (4186) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:41:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking for cocoon coat pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com Hello All! I am looking for a cocoon coat pattern made by Folkwear. Folkwear has discontinued it so it cannot be purchased through them. Does anyone have one they wouldn't mind selling or renting? Does anyone know where I might be able to get my hands on the pattern for sale from a vendor? I would love to make this for New Year's Eve. Thank You Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21907 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:45:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22090; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18618 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:58:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18586 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.34] (ell0704.acadia.net [205.217.211.56]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA09451 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:08:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The ancient Kenmores are mostly ancient Singers. Sears didn't do any of their own manufacturing of anything; all appliances, etc. were made for them by other manufacturers. At various times, the sewing machines were made by Singer and White, and probably others. Not necessarily low-end, except possibly in cost. I think anyone should treat *any* ancient sewing machines with great respect -- everyone I've met was a great machine, and very sturdy (not to mention all metal). Can't say that about all the newer ones. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21913 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22518; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19270 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:01:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19262 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16223 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:00:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:00:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Name My Business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Okay, everyone: I'm finally going to talk about what I've been hinting at for months. If all goes well with my meeting with a potential investor in a few weeks, I will soon be starting my own pattern business, making high quality historical patterns for women and men, specializing in the pre 1650 period. Not surprisingly, the first few patterns will be Elizabethan upper class garments. I'm almost done with my business plan, but it lacks one thing: A name for the business. Since I've asked the list's help with everything else, of course I'm coming to you all for this, too. So, I'm holding a contest. The winner will receive a copy of the first pattern BEFORE the publication date. I need a good, evocative name that expresses what the business is about. I don't want anything too cutesy, i.e, "You Sew And Sew" or "Forgotten Memories" or too stuffy, "The Extremely Authentic Historical Pattern Company, Ltd". I'd like something with style and panache. In fact, I'd use "Panache" if I thought people could pronounce it, but having had a business called "Seraglio", I've learned THAT lesson. Please email me at margo@directcon.net with entries, as many as you like. In the case of a tie, the first email wins, so hurry! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:50:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21925 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23230; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20024 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:04:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20014 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:04:45 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.146] (ppp98.creative.net [208.225.99.98]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02009 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:08:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:12:26 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking for cocoon coat pattern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com >I am looking for a cocoon coat pattern made by Folkwear. Folkwear has >discontinued it so it cannot be purchased through them. Does anyone have one >they wouldn't mind selling or renting? Does anyone know where I might be >able to get my hands on the pattern for sale from a vendor? The Cocoon coat has not been discontinued, as it has never been released by Folkwear; it is in process of publication and will be released "reeeeel sooooon now". Visit: http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/drawingboard.html for updates on the release date of the cocoon coat pattern. I, too, am looking forward to being able to buy it. Check out their website: http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/index.html for available patterns, and those discontinued patterns that remain in stock at a 30 per cent discount. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 15:00:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21935 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24811; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22442 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:14:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22431 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17760 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:12:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:12:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199910052012.NAA17760@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I think anyone should treat *any* ancient sewing machines with great >respect -- everyone I've met was a great machine, That's because the old machines you've met are the ones that didn't get tossed on a junk heap in a foaming mouthed fit of frustration, like the Kenmore From Hell I learned to sew on. The best thing my mother ever did was to trade that hunk of junk in and buy an Elna. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 16:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22114 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09715; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06632 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:48:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06535 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22734 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006701bf0f7b$c3b86960$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:51:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Sari-weight silk has to be lightweight to hang right. It's really scarfy >and floaty, altho there is a 5" wide cotton facing at the hem (modern) to >make the pleats behave. Probably close to 100% of the saris you seen worn on a daily basis fit this description. However, many of the "special occasion" saris could not be described as "scarfy and floaty." I know this from first-hand experience pawing over some of these "special" saris at a Toronto shop. The silk is supple, but quite dense, and usually there is some pretty serious brocading going on (not just at the hems) which also increases the weight. These are the kind of saris which are worn for weddings or festivals. When lined (and not even heavily lined) can do a pretty good job of duplicating the look of Elizabethan silks. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 16:48:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22126 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:47:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12336; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10457 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:01:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10444 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05430 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:01:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991005165937.00969430@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:01:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking for cocoon coat pattern In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 01:12 PM 10/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > >-Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com > >I am looking for a cocoon coat pattern made by Folkwear. Folkwear has > >discontinued it so it cannot be purchased through them. Does anyone > have one > >they wouldn't mind selling or renting? Does anyone know where I might be > >able to get my hands on the pattern for sale from a vendor? > >The Cocoon coat has not been discontinued, as it has never been released by >Folkwear; it is in process of publication and will be released "reeeeel >sooooon now". But, how can we have one here in my costume shop, if it was never released? Oh, I see--you mean by Larkbooks, yes? We got it several years ago, from Taunton, when they owned the line. :-) Doris >Visit: >http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/drawingboard.html >for updates on the release date of the cocoon coat pattern. > >I, too, am looking forward to being able to buy it. > >Check out their website: >http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/index.html >for available patterns, and those discontinued patterns that remain in >stock at a 30 per cent discount. > >Lilinah Doris Nash Ames, IA Feed hungry children around the world--free! Visit http://thehungersite.com to find out how. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 17:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22158 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15010; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13983 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13970 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.16] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ycqy-0006KJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:14:36 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005130728.00bef2c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:08:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business In-Reply-To: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Margo Anderson > >"One Tough Costumer" What's wrong with what you've already got? I've been jealous of that for a long time. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 17:00:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22161 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14980; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13962 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13950 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.16] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ycqu-0006KJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:14:33 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005130239.00bed660@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:03:54 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines In-Reply-To: References: <37F971F5.270C@netwiz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Personally, the computerized embroidery >looks computerized to me -- I prefer the hand-done stuff. But if you had >to get something done in a hurry, I could see the point of having such. Computerized embroidery was invented for those folks who need to make 1000 of the same embroidered thing. The rest of us got these machines later. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 17:01:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22170 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:01:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14979; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13967 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13958 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.16] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ycqw-0006KJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:14:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005130428.00bedca0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:05:26 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron In-Reply-To: <2482ef67.252bac3f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I'm still looking for a Singer Featherweight >w/all the attachments. We all have our dreams. They're still around for sale, if you've got lots of money. Ask quilters where to get them (and what you have to hock to do so). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 17:01:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22174 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15374; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14192 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:15:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14170 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991005221942.16593.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.163.180.25] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:19:42 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:19:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jonna Hayden --- Megan Irvine wrote: > Really! I have an ancient Kenmore that I inherited -snip- Maybe I should treat mine with > more > respect. I have a Kenmore convertible model 1980 that I finally killed, dead (it needs a new head, and Kenmore doesn't make new heads for this model--supposedly they can't be killed!). The repairman looked at it and said "aww, you really love this machine, don't you . ." I knew I was sunk.. It did the most gorgeous buttonholes. I have a Pfaff 130 (made in 1944) now and it's a good machine, tough as nails, but it's not my Kenmore. If anyone out there has this model Kenmore and is willing to part with it, you would have my undying gratitude! Jonna ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 18:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22272 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:16:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26998; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10345 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:28:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10312 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:28:45 -0600 (MDT) From: tylerweiss@excite.com Received: from puffer.excite.com ([199.172.153.109]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991005232759.DJES1457.fortune@puffer.excite.com> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:27:59 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Sewing machines Message-Id: <939166619.1437.907@excite.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:36:59 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 198.151.12.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: tylerweiss@excite.com OOps I forgot to add my message. I have and adore a Pfaff 7570. It was expensive but I have never had a days trouble with it. I do quit a bit of fine sewing for my daughter and myself and its smooth action and built in walking foot make working on tricky fabrics a breeze. Because it is computerized finely tuned button holes are possible. By changing to special needles it is possible to make entredeux and to even do drawn thread work as the stitches repeat with very high accuracy. Tyler ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 18:36:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22285 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:35:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29572; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19296 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from escambia.se.mediaone.net (escambia.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19288 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-177.pompano.net [24.129.74.177]) by escambia.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08888 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:50:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:47:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <939166619.1437.907@excite.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" I just got a europro from Fingerhut for $300 . it will also do up to 8 layers of canvas. 11 feel adjustable height and 49 stitch functions. Andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 20:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22430 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12373; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07458 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:39:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07436 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 77923 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 01:39:44 -0000 Received: from 207-229-148-207.d.enteract.com (HELO enteract.com) (207.229.148.207) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 01:39:44 -0000 Message-ID: <37FAA939.D117C56F@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:43:21 -0500 From: Heather Law X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja,da,fr,de,ru,gd,el,ga,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Obscure machine: "Domestic" brand "Gaiety" model References: <199910052215.QAA14215@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heather Law Has anyone ever heard of this machine ("Gaiety" is a decal on the machine, "Domestic" is a metal logo)? It's a dumpster-dive rescuee, and seems to be stuck - stitch selector on a fancy stitch, roto thingie won't turn :-( It looks about the same vintage as my Singer 403 or maybe later - but still all-metal. Anyone out there ever heard of it, or have any clues on what's wrong with it? Thanks for any info, hints, help, cluelets... Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 20:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22434 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:27:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12299; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07501 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:40:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07489 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA13283 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011801bf0f9c$3339bd00$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sewing machine recommendations......etc. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:43:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Sewing machines...... Let's see, I learned on my mother's circa 1939 Singer, and currently own 1. a 16 year old Sears Kenmore, needs a tuneup but works just fine 2. a 1930s vintage singer, electric, 3. a Sears Kenmore serger, 2 or 3 years old, and my newest aquisition, a singer hand crank 1920s or 30s vintage. I guess I like the old Singers. I still drool over the new ones, but this entire collection cost less than one of them. And that cost has been spread out over 16 years. I got the 1930s electric one so my step kids can learn to sew on something they can't kill. I have trouble justifying spending more for a sewing machine than I have for all but two of my cars, after all. On another note - perhaps I spend too much time in the fabric store.... Last Sunday, I was in the local JoAnn's, looking for a Xena pattern for my stepdaughter's halloween costume. The saleslady came up to me, asked if I was the costume lady, and when I said yes, asked me what a farthingale was. It seems the day before someone had come into the store wanting to "build a farthingale" and no one in the store knew what she was talking about. Thanks to this list, I do. Now, so does the saleslady!!!! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 20:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22440 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13065; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08351 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:45:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08345 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup310.serv.net [207.207.70.203]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA08711 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000c01bf0f9c$6c309020$cb46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:45:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Oh migosh! Pfaff has declared bankruptcy!!! I thought it was *Singer* that did that... I love my Pfaffs. Wonderful machines. Gia/Giacinta >> I'd recommend a Pfaff. > >I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that >doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for >New Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22506 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:21:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19882; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16198 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:35:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16186 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Tue, 5 Oct 99 21:18:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00a601bf0fa0$ae0dfec0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:15:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Singer did declare bankruptcy. But, they are restructuring. Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: Gia Gavino-Gattshall To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 8:50 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Oh migosh! > >Pfaff has declared bankruptcy!!! I thought it was *Singer* that did that... > >I love my Pfaffs. Wonderful machines. > >Gia/Giacinta > > >>> I'd recommend a Pfaff. >> >>I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that >>doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for >>New Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:28:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22527 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20734; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17164 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:42:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17149 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup331.serv.net [207.207.70.224]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA14507 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a201bf0fa4$646ecf20$cb46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:42:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Ah! Restructuring is better than going completely belly up. Gia/Giacinta > >-Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" > >Singer did declare bankruptcy. But, they are restructuring. >Carol Ross >-----Original Message----- >From: Gia Gavino-Gattshall >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 8:50 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines > > >> >>-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" >> >>Oh migosh! >> >>Pfaff has declared bankruptcy!!! I thought it was *Singer* that did >that... >> >>I love my Pfaffs. Wonderful machines. >> >>Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 22:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22954 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29550; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27964 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:53:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27951 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01115 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-86.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.86]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25897 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007a01bf0faf$bd9debc0$c13afea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:03:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >They got some and demonstrated it, and of course it worked perfectly. Well, >being a skeptical sort, I suspected foul play. But it's really true. Stick on >a spool of Dual Duty, and I'm sunk. So now I scout for sales and whenever >possible I only sew with black and white thread, because you can get it in >bigger spools. It's not a big problem, but it is a bit of a pain. > >So there's something else to look out for when buying a machine! > >Gail Finke This is true. I have been scolded by my Viking repairman because of all the thread I had wrapped around the mechanisms. Of the cone threads, he said I could ONLY use 'Maxi-lock'. Maxi-lock comes in a few more colors than black and white here. He, also, said to check other brands of thread thoroughly for smoothness, if I wanted to use them, or they will catch in the machine. I can't use Dual Duty either. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 22:43:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22960 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29988; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28536 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:57:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28525 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wizzer ([12.75.67.166]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991006035719.MGM20426@wizzer> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 03:57:19 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991004221718.008ac380@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: kimberlygilbert@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:17:18 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: H-COST: Crystal Pleated Gauze? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert Can anyone tell me what crystal pleated gauze is? The new Simplicity Elizabethan pattern calls for it for the ruff, but I have no idea what it is (or where to obtain it). Any help would be appreciated. Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberlygilbert@worldnet.att.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?"--Tim Rice _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 22:51:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22966 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:51:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00851; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29700 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:05:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from internet.casa.gov.au ([203.19.117.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29683 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by INTERNET with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:06:26 +1000 Message-ID: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0B5@ACT02EXC001> From: "HICKS, MELISSA" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:06:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "HICKS, MELISSA" Greetings, Sorry if this seems an absurd question, but I was wondering if someone could please email me privately and advise how I can access the H-Costume archives? I asked this question about a week ago but received no responses. Thanks for your time. Mel. meliora@sca.org.au _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 23:48:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23067 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05586; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06950 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:02:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06940 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09738 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FAD891.2E115AB0@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 01:05:21 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0B5@ACT02EXC001> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas According to the info I got in March, the Archives-of-a-sort may be found at http://www.reference.com -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 23:49:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23071 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05667; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07095 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:03:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07087 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-22.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.22]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA08874 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991006010528.009aabb0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 01:05:28 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990924114300.00bf46e0@pop.slip.net> References: <003a01bf0c30$53c5d1e0$7233aec7@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? Yes, depending on the type of sari. I use them all the time - it's just a matter of hunting until you find the right pattern or go for a completely plain one. When asking for a sari ask for Banarsi (it's a specific style of weaving from a specific region). >Sari-weight silk has to be lightweight to hang right. It's really >scarfy and floaty, altho there is a 5" wide cotton facing at the hem >(modern) to make the pleats behave. That's very strange. I've never seen that cotton facing thing up here. They must be different in the Southern US. At the Indian stores in Toronto you can find sari of all different weights of silk and other fibers. It's actually quite easy here to find nice heavy silk saris particularily the wedding saris. >Elizabethan or Tudor silks were stiffer than that. I also don't think that ALL Elizabethan or Tudor silks were stiff. Just be sure to use an appropriate weight for what you're doing. So, my opinon: have fun with the sari and enjoy. It's certainly better than using polyester or dupioni etc. >IF you got appropriately patterned silk, and IF you lined the bejeebers >out of it to make sure it was stiff enough, you'd probably end up with >the right look. Actually, that reminded me. I have a copy of a picture (cotton wall hanging) from India (which I believe is in the V&A) which is late 16th/early 17th century. It shows a blending of Indian and English stuff. It shows two women and two men in (mostly) English style clothing made up in Indian fabrics with the typical Indian patterns. Admittedly, it is only one reference but, it does show a definite crossover. It can be found on p. 57 of "The Story of Britain" by A.L. Rowse. Artus Publishing Company Ltd., London. Reprinted 1993. ISBN 0 297 83311 1 Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 23:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23077 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:57:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06516; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08016 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:11:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07997 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA23822 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:41:44 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01101; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:48:56 +0930 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:48:49 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991006010528.009aabb0@mail.interlog.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > > So, my opinon: have fun with the sari and enjoy. It's certainly better > than using polyester or dupioni etc. > So, just out of curiosity, when does Dupioni first turn up? Is it entirely modern? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 00:01:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23088 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:01:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06869; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08402 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:15:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08397 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-139.radiks.net [206.29.243.141]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA05666 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:13:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991006001109.03f0d6a4@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 00:11:09 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: irons and sewing machines - long In-Reply-To: <199910052215.QAA14215@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Irons: We currently have a Rowenta that works very well - it replaced one that landed point first on a concrete floor and did the exploding grenade trick. I just wish the new one had the old one's non-stick plate. I really hate cleaning fusible interfacing gunk off it. We bought a cheap Hamilton Beach with Teflon plate for fusing. Previously we went thru about 3 Black and Decker's which were about the best for under $50. (This was over about 7 years - back then they were the only ones with auto shut-off, which was essential.) Sewing machines: We currently have 5 machines and 1 serger, of which 2 of the machines are very dead and one is used rarely. The serger is a White superlock which I love, but wish it had auto-rolled-hem. It is almost as heavy as the old metal sewing machine, but this keeps it from dancing around on the table (and it doesn't need suction cup feet). The dead machines are a very low-end New Home, which was a pain in the neck from day one, and not worth what was paid for it. The other is a Singer (10 yrs or so old) that was my mother's, and it is worthless. My DH liked it when it worked, but if you hit an obstruction, it immediately jumped so far out of tune that the needle would hit the hook on the way down. Just not worth tuning it up every other day. The seldom-used one is a Kenmore, about 15 yrs old - the "super high bar" model. I don't know who made it, but it was/is a really good machine. It just became so frustrating to find feet for it, and my skills expanded beyond it, that I had to get a new one. We still use it for leather, vinyl, denim, etc. because it laughs at 8 layers of denim. It just doesn't feed as well as it used to. My current machine is a Janome/New Home 8000 - it's about 6 years old. It was one of the first true embroidery machines, and I have used it for several things. I even have the scanner, though haven't used it much - it's an art to get your drawings dark enough to scan and sew properly. It sews really well, has about 100 different stitches including about 8 types of buttonhole, and has needed only minor tune-ups since I got it. It is no longer available, the 9000 has replaced it. My DH has just acquired Viking/Husqvarna's new Designer 1 with all the professional software for embroidery design. It sews really well, but I personally find the auto presser-foot lift annoying. There is no lever for this, it is done by a button. It also does embroidery, has a 6" x 10" hoop area, and instead of digitizing to RAM cards, you plug the floppy disk directly into the machine. We're still figuring out the nuances of digitizing - the software is pretty good, but you need to get a practical feel for stitch density and angles. I agree however, you need to find the machine that works for YOU. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 00:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23092 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06992; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08485 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:16:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08476 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:16:03 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YMNa21483 (4573); Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <77e53064.252c34f0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:15:28 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines To: h-costume@indra.com CC: ggavino@serv.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/5/1999 18:45:56 Pacific Daylight Time, ggavino@serv.net writes: << Oh migosh! Pfaff has declared bankruptcy!!! I thought it was *Singer* that did that... I love my Pfaffs. Wonderful machines. Gia/Giacinta >> Relax... I believe that Pfaff has filed (Chapter 11) which is essentially a form of consolidating loans to get out of debt. It provides protection from creditors while restructuring. Pfaff is owned by Singer, so it's kinda the same deal. I'd bet neither company will be disappearing ... so enjoy your machine, I do believe that there's no reason to panic. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 00:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23096 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07239; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08729 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:18:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08719 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA23525 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:48:18 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01107; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:55:31 +0930 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:55:24 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gardecorps (was Houppelande) In-Reply-To: <199910021523.RAA20631@worldonline.nl> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sat, 2 Oct 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > The point is: this may be the forerunner of the gardecorps, were it not for > the fact that they seem to be worn during the same period. I haven't as yet > found a similar garment before ca 1230, though. You may ask yourself in the > mean time: why would they want to have the arms free from these relatively > short sleeves: they don't interfere with work... > Maybe it's a form of conspicuous consumption among the emerging middle classes? They may not interfere with physical work, but would they interfere with work that involved a lot of writing/drawing (such as an engineer, lawyer or architect might do)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 00:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23103 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07680; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09373 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from internet.casa.gov.au ([203.19.117.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09366 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by INTERNET with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:24:52 +1000 Message-ID: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0BB@ACT02EXC001> From: "HICKS, MELISSA" To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:24:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "HICKS, MELISSA" Janice, Thanks for this but the link doesn't bring up any information for me and the "Parent Directory" doesn't seem to go anywhere. Can anyone please advise? In private if necessary if I'm just being incredibly dense. > According to the info I got in March, the Archives-of-a-sort may be > found at > http://www.reference.com > Thanks Mel. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 00:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23109 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08197; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10045 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:29:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10038 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27458 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:37:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02332 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:37:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:37:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives In-Reply-To: <37FAD891.2E115AB0@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Janice Dallas wrote: > According to the info I got in March, the Archives-of-a-sort may be > found at > http://www.reference.com Digests going back several years are held in a searchable archive at . Bravo to Eric Praetzel for providing this invaluable resource. I have spent many hours browsing this archive. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 01:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23148 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:29:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12314; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17252 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:43:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17242 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:43:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.180] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ykn5-0007EP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:43:08 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 23:40:10 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines In-Reply-To: <007a01bf0faf$bd9debc0$c13afea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:03 PM 10/05/1999 -0700, you wrote: -Poster: "Michelle" Stick on a spool of Dual Duty, and I'm sunk. So now I Gail Finke This is true. I have been scolded by my Viking repairman because of all >the thread I had wrapped around the mechanisms. Of the cone threads, he >said I could ONLY use 'Maxi-lock'. Maxi-lock comes in a few more colors than >black and white here. He, also, said to check other brands of thread >thoroughly for smoothness, if I wanted to use them, or they will catch in >the machine. I can't use Dual Duty either. >Michelle So maybe the makers of thread that won't work in our machines need to hear a write in letter campaign from us each saying that they're losing a lot of money because we can't/won't buy their product as long as it costs us extra time/money/repair bills/frustration. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 02:01:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23184 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:01:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13973; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20179 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:15:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20172 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:15:29 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking for cocoon coat pattern Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 07:11:42 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37faf4e7.51024747@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA20173 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:12:26 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by lilinah@grin.net: >The Cocoon coat has not been discontinued, as it has never been released by >Folkwear; it is in process of publication and will be released "reeeeel >sooooon now". It has been issued already and then withdrawn, right after Taunton bought Folkwear, about 6 or 8 years ago, I think. My mother made one from this pattern, not long after they released it, many years ago (when they first started doing the Met collection, I think). It would probably have been in the late 80's, I guess. Memory is dim. I remember that my mother's coat was GORGEOUS, but everything my mom makes is gorgeous. I don't recall whether she had trouble with the pattern, since she probably re-drafted it to her size and kept the paper intact, she may not have noticed inconsistencies. I'm glad to hear that they are reissuing it. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 03:22:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19601 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 03:22:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18575; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA26830 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:36:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from macquarie.matra.com.au (root@macquarie.exp.net.au [203.56.200.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26822 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from computer (mp00.exp.net.au [203.56.200.100]) by macquarie.matra.com.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA13447 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:36:28 +1000 Message-ID: <007801bf0fd6$4042c980$64c838cb@computer> From: "Craig Jones & Melissa Hicks" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:38:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Craig Jones & Melissa Hicks" Robin, > Digests going back several years are held in a searchable archive at > . Bravo to Eric Praetzel for > providing this invaluable resource. I have spent many hours browsing this > archive. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is just what I needed !!! Many thanks Mel. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 05:50:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00668 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:49:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24650; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA02458 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:03:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02448 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t3-161.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.194.161]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id VAA20252 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:03:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910061103.VAA20252@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:46:26 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Cutesy-pie's Lovable Costume Emporium? ---------- > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business > Date: 06 October 1999 06:08 > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >Margo Anderson > > > >"One Tough Costumer" > > What's wrong with what you've already got? I've been jealous of that for a > long time. > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 05:54:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00676 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:53:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21401; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27629 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:06:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27621 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991006100641.SOEI13309.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 03:06:41 -0700 Message-ID: <008401bf0fe3$107ec700$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0BB@ACT02EXC001> Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:07:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" And if that link does not work you can still access them at my ftp site zipped up. ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/usr/ches Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: HICKS, MELISSA To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:24 AM Subject: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives : : -Poster: "HICKS, MELISSA" : : Janice, : : Thanks for this but the link doesn't bring up any information for me and the : "Parent Directory" doesn't seem to go anywhere. Can anyone please advise? : In private if necessary if I'm just being incredibly dense. : : > According to the info I got in March, the Archives-of-a-sort may be : > found at : > http://www.reference.com : > : Thanks : Mel. : : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 05:58:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00680 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:58:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25100; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03184 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:12:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03177 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (209-122-227-250.s250.tnt2.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.227.250]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA09377 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003901bf0fe8$8eea1cc0$fae37ad1@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <3.0.3.32.19991006001109.03f0d6a4@radiks.net> Subject: H-COST: New Rowenta Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:50:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" My new Rowenta, replacing the one I dropped, of course, looks just like the dearly departed. It has a shiny steel soleplate. But the old one glided and the new one is somehow sluggish/sticky. It is clean and I haven't scratched it - yet. Has anybody experienced this? What do you recommend? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 07:05:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00853 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29349; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09100 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:18:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09086 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.136] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Yq1j-0001Tt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:18:36 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:15:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: New Rowenta In-Reply-To: <003901bf0fe8$8eea1cc0$fae37ad1@martha> References: <3.0.3.32.19991006001109.03f0d6a4@radiks.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 06:50 AM 10/06/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Martha Kelly" > >My new Rowenta, replacing the one I dropped, of course, looks just like the >dearly departed. It has a shiny steel soleplate. But the old one glided >and the new one is somehow sluggish/sticky. It is clean and I haven't >scratched it - yet. > >Has anybody experienced this? What do you recommend? My thought was--can the soleplate of one replace the other? -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 07:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00873 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02160; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14270 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:00:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14176 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:59:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.43.192]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with smtp (EXIM-3.03) for id 11YqfV-00039T-00; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:59:41 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991006145654.009d9c30@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:56:54 +0200 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: H-COST: velvet, velveteen, plush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA14263 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler Definitions [summary], and a question. Velvet is a fabric with a pile which is formed by an auxiliary warp. It is laid into loops during the weaving process and those loops cut open. Velveteen is a fabric where the pile is formed by an auxiliary weft, laid into loops and cut open later. Cotton in Europe before the 18th century tended to be too weak for making a warp, therefore would often be used as weft only in a fabric with a silk or linen warp; hence the usage of having velveteen with a cotton (weft) pile. [Cf. "satin" and "sateen" where sateen means really a weft-faced and satin a warp-faced fabric, but "sateen" is often used just to denote a cotton satin.] All of this is not new, I just summarize former list posts. But I recently learned the following from a woman who had been a worker in a plush weaving factory: According to her, plush is a fabric woven double, with two warps, one top and one bottom warp. The pile is formed by extra threads which go up and down between the two warp layers. The layers are cut apart by cutting the connecting pile threads, so that two lengths of fabric come off the loom at once. So, all three terms seem to be defined by weaving technology, not by material. However, there seem to be the following traditions: To make velvet in silk, cotton, or wool; velveteen in cotton or synthetics; plush in wool, wool mixes, or acrylic. A dictionary "Basic knowledge of textile production" I looked into today defined, on the contrary, velvet to be a fabric with less than 3mm pile, plush a fabric with long pile longer than 3mm. Where 3mm are approximately 1/8 inch. [Also, there is frottee, the stuff that towels are made from. Initially, it should be woven in a technique similar to velvet or velveteen, with the difference that the loops are never cut open, and that it is always made of cotton. These days, however, it seems that it is an ordinary plain weave fabric with a specific weft thread that comes with the loops already in it.] There doesn't seem to be a distinction between velvet and velveteen in German, at least I have found none. Maybe "Kettsamt" and "Schusssamt". But there are more fabrics around here with a pile and velvety appearance. One is Panné velvet, a very shiny crushed velvet made of polyester or rayon where the base fabric is a knitted, not a woven fabric, so it stretches. The polyester varieties have been pretty cheap the last few years (unavailable before that), and it looks good, so people use it a lot for decoration. (And costumes. Probably inauthentic when supposed to be historic.) Another fabric type is "Nicki", also a fabric with velvety pile where the base fabric is knitted. "Nicki" is not shiny. It is a cotton or synthetic fabric normally used for children's clothes and sportswear. What would these two varieties be called in English? Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 07:47:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00881 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:47:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02429; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14458 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:01:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14447 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.103]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04412 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:01:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:01:37 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: mystery portrait Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Greetings to the List! I have a mystery and ask your aid. On page 129 of _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_, there is a portrait (figure 200) whose caption runs as follows: 'Portrait of an unknown Italian lady', by an unknown artist, c. 1570-80. Her deep mulberry jerkin is heavily embroidered with gold thread and pearls and lies open at the neck, revealing the striped silk beneath. Present whereabouts unknown. Notice the number of "unknowns" in this caption! What I am looking for is a color reproduction of this portrait. For those of you whose households are unblessed by this book, here is a little further description: the portrait is from about waist up, and the lady has on a light (probably white) doublet with stripes (probably gold) with narrowish sleeves and a smallish ruff under an embroidered jerkin with fairly puffy shoulder rolls. The neck of the jerkin lies open to reveal the top few buttons of the doublet. Around her neck is a strand of pearls caught up at the bottom of the jerkin opening and sporting a very large pendant with two square-cut stones and a hanging teardrop pearl. Sound familiar? Thanks for your help! Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 07:56:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00891 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:56:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03073; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15496 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:10:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15481 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:10:18 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6IVRa26655 (4405) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42bf81b9.252ca40c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:09:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: velvet, velveteen, plush To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com 18th century velvets, velverets, velveteens, corduroy and a wide range of textiles belonged under a large category called fustian. Fustians were linen and cotton and 100% cotton, mainly woven in the Manchester, England area. Beverly Lemire's book, _Fashion's Favourite: The Cotton Trade and the Consumer in Britain, 1660 - 1800_ is a great resource. It always helps to know the beginning of a textile to trace through changes over time. Sally Queen Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 08:09:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00935 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:09:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04225; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:23:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17107 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:22:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17088 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 132.198.103.243 (132.198.103.243) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.EFC9D040@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 8:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: <37FB5D50.514D@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:31:48 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: velvet, velveteen, plush References: <3.0.5.32.19991006145654.009d9c30@130.149.12.212> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hope Greenberg >Another fabric type is "Nicki", also a fabric with velvety pile >where the base fabric is knitted. "Nicki" is not shiny. It is a cotton or >synthetic fabric normally used for children's clothes and sportswear. >What would these two varieties be called in English? I don't really know but it sounds like what we call velour. Traditionally (traditionally--like say the last 25 years?) velour had a cotton/poly knit backing and pile, so was not too shiny. I've noticed in the last few years that a greater number of velours are being made from poly/rayon or poly/acetate and so are not quite as soft but definitely have more shimmer. - Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 08:27:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00974 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05690; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19902 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:40:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19894 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:40:18 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip226.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.226]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id GAA03644 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910061340.GAA03644@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:45:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Rowenta Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003901bf0fe8$8eea1cc0$fae37ad1@martha> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > My new Rowenta, replacing the one I dropped, of course, looks just like the > dearly departed. It has a shiny steel soleplate. But the old one glided > and the new one is somehow sluggish/sticky. It is clean and I haven't > scratched it - yet. When I got my new Rowenta a few years ago, it had a coating on the soleplate that had to be removed before use. I suspect that without removing it, it would be sticky. (As I recall, there were directions which told how to do it. I remember grousing as I was using it over and over on a paper towel. However, I don't remember if it was a hot or cold iron or if some substance aided the removal.) I suggest reading the box or instruction sheet. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01021 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:04:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11238; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26362 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:17:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26353; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EM9LH95B; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:17:28 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Recommendations for good solid basic how to sew books Message-ID: <19991006.055619.4783.3.cley@juno.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19991006145654.009d9c30@130.149.12.212> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-14 From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:17:28 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley I need to learn to sew with a machine, something I haven't done since 7th grade Home Ec. I have a good machine which needs to be reconditioned and that's no problem, but was wondering if anyone might have any recommendations for a good solid text on sewing. I need to learn how to make everything from gathered skirts to drapes. Many thanks! Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01057 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18250; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05957 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:00:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05949 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.183] (ip183.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.183]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA23405 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910061454.KAA23405@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommendations for good solid basic how to sew books Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:04:49 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais I have heard many people recommend the Vogue sewing book for basic instruction, but I find that _Simplicity's Simply the Best Sewing Book_ is easy to understand and very complete with basic and intermediate sewing instruction, including a section on understanding your machine and sergers. For pattern fitting, I recommend Nancy Zieman's _Fitting Finesse_. Lisee cynthia j ley wrote: > >-Poster: cynthia j ley > >I need to learn to sew with a machine, something I haven't done since 7th >grade Home Ec. I have a good machine which needs to be reconditioned and >that's no problem, but was wondering if anyone might have any >recommendations for a good solid text on sewing. I need to learn how to >make everything from gathered skirts to drapes. > >Many thanks! > > > > Arlys > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01063 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19078; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07103 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:04:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07090 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA30248 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991006010528.009aabb0@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Everybody's talking about using saris in various types of garb; out of curiosity, as someone living in a place where saris just aren't seen, how much do the nice, heavy, somewhat appropriate wedding saris cost? Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01343 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04709; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02676 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02624 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04143 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:48:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05567 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:48:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:48:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: velvet, velveteen, plush In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991006145654.009d9c30@130.149.12.212> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA02671 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Barbara Maren Winkler wrote (from Germany, I think): > But there are more fabrics around here with a pile and velvety appearance. > One is Panné velvet, a very shiny crushed velvet made of polyester or rayon > where the base fabric is a knitted, not a woven fabric, so it stretches. > The polyester varieties have been pretty cheap the last few years > (unavailable before that), and it looks good, so people use it a lot for > decoration. (And costumes. Probably inauthentic when supposed to be > historic.) Another fabric type is "Nicki", also a fabric with velvety pile > where the base fabric is knitted. "Nicki" is not shiny. It is a cotton or > synthetic fabric normally used for children's clothes and sportswear. > > What would these two varieties be called in English? We have panne in English. Would the latter example be the same as our velour? --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01349 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05446; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03870 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03854 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJ600HGGX3W0J@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:43:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:52:49 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: "Costume Language" by Davies X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991006115249.0079b290@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson I just got this in from ILL, and just flipping through it, I see that it's a major work of compiling, and I'm sorry to see that Ms. Davies died before it was fully done. It's possible that she would have corrected some of the problems I'm seeing just on a quickie flip through. 1. No citations. I have no idea where she got these definitions at all. This means that some of these definitions are just there with no explanation (e.g., "BICE - Blue or Green pigments made from hydrocarbonate of copper. Term in use since the reign of Arthur" - Excuse Me???) 2. Some of the definitions I know are wrong, which does not make me confindent about those I don't know anything about (e.g. Horned helmets on Vikings). It looks like a lot of hard work went into this one. I'm sorry we didn't get to see the finished product. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:04:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01534 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10513; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12368 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:16:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12358 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FJ600L01YM5KJ@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:15:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:15:41 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: H-COST: Gores again To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FJ600L03YM5KJ@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.69 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Several weeks ago, I suggested that the side panels on the Hjerolfsnes #38 and #41 were not gores. Ok, I've had it 'splained to me that I was wrong. In this context, a "Gore" is a wedge shaped piece of fabric, usually triangular, which are used to "produce the difference in width between two points of a garment" (e.g. the narrowing of a waist). In this context, it's even a Medieval term , and is derived from a term for a spear-head. The triangular pieces set into the slits in the body of the skirts (and on some, in the sides, are also technically "Gores", but more specifically they are "godets" (although in this context, this appears to be a Victorian term - in the Middle Ages, a godet was a drinking cup, from Goddard). My apologies for the misinformation. I'll try to do better next time. For the record, I still hate the term "10-gore dress", and I still maintain they weren't "tightly fitted". Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:18:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01575 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12578; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15323 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24865 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:29:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from HenktJong (vp208-122.worldonline.nl [195.241.208.122]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11920 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:29:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <007001bf1020$66f085a0$7ad0f1c3@HenktJong> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: References: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:46:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands ----- What about: "(One) Tough Costumer"? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:20:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01584 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13570; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16315 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:32:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16308 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:32:57 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NXB0YxR2S (4418) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:32:23 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: mystery portrait To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/6/1999 06:02:22 Pacific Daylight Time, melanie@faucet.net writes: << 'Portrait of an unknown Italian lady', by an unknown artist, c. 1570-80. Her deep mulberry jerkin is heavily embroidered with gold thread and pearls and lies open at the neck, revealing the striped silk beneath. Present whereabouts unknown. >> Have you tried comparing the sitter to other portraits in the book where you might find a suspected artist? Then you could search the art websites by artist, or maybe you should just try searching them by year. If you could provide a scan of the portrait, so that we could see what you're looking for, perhaps I might have it in my database of acquired portraiture... the written description sounds like so many Elizabethan portraits. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01589 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12600; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15342 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15328 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24885 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:29:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from HenktJong (vp208-122.worldonline.nl [195.241.208.122]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11928 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:29:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <007101bf1020$67c19140$7ad0f1c3@HenktJong> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gardecorps (was Houppelande) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:17:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, I wrote: > > The point is: this may be the forerunner of the gardecorps, were it not for > > the fact that they seem to be worn during the same period. I haven't as yet > > found a similar garment before ca 1230, though. You may ask yourself in the > > mean time: why would they want to have the arms free from these relatively > > short sleeves: they don't interfere with work... > > Claire wrote: > Maybe it's a form of conspicuous consumption among the emerging middle > classes? They may not interfere with physical work, but would they > interfere with work that involved a lot of writing/drawing (such as an > engineer, lawyer or architect might do)? Funny thing is that one of the first good views of a gardecorps is that of an architect. It concerns the graveslab of Hugues Libergier, civilian and master builder of St Nicaise church in Reims, who died 1263. The slab is from a few years after that. (See: Nicola Coldstream, Masons and Sculptors, British Museum Press, 1991, p. 15) There are several gardecorpses (!) in a MS in Cambridge University, with shortish and longer sleeves, dating from ca 1260, and they are worn by a king (st Edward), nobility and clergy, so they were not only worn by professional men. Conspicious consumption they certainly were... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:34:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01633 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15900; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21377 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:46:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21354 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:46:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37faf4e7.51024747@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:46:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking for cocoon coat pattern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:12:26 -0700, the following was written in this >electric book by lilinah@grin.net: > > >>The Cocoon coat has not been discontinued, as it has never been released by >>Folkwear; it is in process of publication and will be released "reeeeel >>sooooon now". > >It has been issued already and then withdrawn, right after Taunton >bought Folkwear, about 6 or 8 years ago, I think. My mother made one >from this pattern, not long after they released it, many years ago >(when they first started doing the Met collection, I think). It would >probably have been in the late 80's, I guess. Memory is dim. > >I remember that my mother's coat was GORGEOUS, but everything my mom >makes is gorgeous. I don't recall whether she had trouble with the >pattern, since she probably re-drafted it to her size and kept the >paper intact, she may not have noticed inconsistencies. > >I'm glad to hear that they are reissuing it. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} Margery's comment about problems jogged my memory. I have the pattern, bought it as soon as it came out, never used it. There are massive problems in fitting the collar. It needs to be seriously fudged with while a muslin . I learned this from two professional historic costume makers, one of whom actually makes - and successfully sells - patterns. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:38:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01637 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16642; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23661 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:51:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23646 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (216-164-220-102.s102.tnt5.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.220.102]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA14354 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006801bf101f$dcf2e640$66dca4d8@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <199910061340.GAA03644@eclipse.pacifier.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: New Rowenta Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:26:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" Thank you, Kat. The coating on my new Rowenta soleplate was a sheet of plastic to peel off - it would have been hard to miss. When I checked the instruction book (again), it recommended a hot-sole-plate cleaner. I've been trying that, but it still isn't as slick as glass. I also noticed that my old beloved iron was a model "DE-87" and the new one is a "DE-871." Maybe they've changed the sole plate formula? I'm tempted to send the old one in for repairs - I snapped off the temperature control. Anyway, thank you for the suggestions. A good iron makes the day brighter. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:45 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: New Rowenta > > -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > > > My new Rowenta, replacing the one I dropped, of course, looks just like the > > dearly departed. It has a shiny steel soleplate. But the old one glided > > and the new one is somehow sluggish/sticky. It is clean and I haven't > > scratched it - yet. > > When I got my new Rowenta a few years ago, it had a coating on the > soleplate that had to be removed before use. I suspect that without > removing it, it would be sticky. (As I recall, there were directions > which told how to do it. I remember grousing as I was using it over > and over on a paper towel. However, I don't remember if it was a hot > or cold iron or if some substance aided the removal.) I suggest > reading the box or instruction sheet. > > > Kat > > Kat(June Russell) > kat@grendal.rain.com > Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 13:09:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01678 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22267; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04288 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:21:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04278; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910061821.MAA04278@net.indra.com> Subject: H-COST: Re-creations of historical fur garments From: "Laura H. Firth Markley" To: h-costume@indra.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Laura H. Firth Markley" A year or more ago, I remember reading about a company in the U.S. that made re-creations of fur garments based on historical patterns. Specifically, I'm looking for a source for a child's mitten, muff or collar circa 1900 made from sea otter fur. If necessary, I'm pretty sure I could supply the pelt. Please reply to me personally as I am not a member to the Historic Costume e-mail list. Thanks very much for your help, Laura -- Laura H. Firth Interpretive Exhibits Writer/Researcher lauraf@ignatz.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 13:24:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01686 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24614; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07691 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07675 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:27:29 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: RE:Sari silk Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf101f$b07ce930$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910060515.XAA08415@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >That's very strange. I've never seen that cotton facing thing up here. They must be different in the Southern US. At the Indian stores in Toronto you can find sari of all different weights of silk and other fibers. It's actually quite easy here to find nice heavy silk saris particularily the wedding saris. I rather doubt this has to do w/ the Southern US. You probably dont take the sari you're interested to the desk and ask them to apply the cotton thingy (it has a name, which escapes me), or to cut off the extra meter to make the matching blouse. Most sari shops include these services in the cost of the garment just as Nordstroms includes the cost of small alterations in mens pants. By taking the sari as yardage (would that be "meter-age"?) you are saving them this trouble. You could probably wangle a discount knowing this. >ask for Banarsi OTOH, if you like 2-3" border weaves in "cloth of gold" or brass w/ nifty CofG medallions all over, ask for the Bombay style saris. Great for Victorian "a disposition" gowns in fancy dress themes. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 13:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01690 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24735; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:35:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07997 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:35:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07986 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:45:14 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: blending of Indian and English stuff at the V&A Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:42:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bf1022$2b8f0930$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910060515.XAA08415@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Danielle said> Actually, that reminded me. I have a copy of a picture (cotton wall hanging) from India (which I believe is in the V&A) which is late 16th/early 17th century. It shows a blending of Indian and English stuff. It shows two women and two men in (mostly) English style clothing made up in Indian fabrics with the typical Indian patterns. Admittedly, it is only one reference but, it does show a definite crossover. In Feb this year, there was (possibly still is) an exhibit in the V&A on indian fabrics made up into European fashions. There were about 6 complete garments, some misc wearable pieces, some household furnishings, too, tho' nothing as early as 17th c. They had roller printed indian cottons in flower & vine designs (gen brown or blue on white ground) that were hand painted. There were silks, there were spangles. Fun exhibit, no catalog! --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 13:44:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01713 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:44:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27311; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14976 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14905 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06622 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:59:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06582 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:59:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:59:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: mystery portrait In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/6/1999 06:02:22 Pacific Daylight Time, > melanie@faucet.net writes: > > << 'Portrait of an unknown Italian lady', by an unknown artist, c. 1570-80. > Her deep mulberry jerkin is heavily embroidered with gold thread and pearls > and lies open at the neck, revealing the striped silk beneath. Present > whereabouts unknown. >> > > Have you tried comparing the sitter to other portraits in the book where you > might find a suspected artist? Then you could search the art websites by > artist, or maybe you should just try searching them by year. I would think that Ms. Arnold would have done some searching herself, particularly since she had a source for her photograph, and presumably something more to go on than we have. One situation in which you get references like "Present whereabouts unknown" and "unknown artist" is when someone puts an item from a private estate up for auction, and it's sold to another collector. The picture may never have been shown in public before, and although it's appraised, the appraiser probably didn't do a full art-historical analysis on it to try to identify the artist. 16th-century portraits by minor artists are really pretty numerous (as a walk through almost any stately country home will show). Once the item is auctioned and sold, it disappears from view. This is one reason I flip through Sotheby's catalogs at used book stores. Often you'll find images that have never been published before, and will never be published again. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 14:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01741 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:00:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01198; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00156 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:10:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00148 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.409) with smtp for sender: id ; Wed, 6 Oct 99 13:35:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <004201bf1029$18f24f60$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: mystery portrait Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:31:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" I haven't seen it anywhere in color but that doesn't mean that a color reproduction doesn't exist. After all Janet Arnold had to get the color information somewhere. I am afraid that I don't have time to look but is there an index of the portraits in the book? If so that may give you more information. If not you might try writing the publisher to see if they know where Janet found a color copy of it. The only other thing you might be able to do is see if indexes of portraits exist (I know they exist for illuminations). These indexes tell where the art work in particular is published. Good Luck! Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Schuessler To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:06 AM Subject: H-COST: mystery portrait > >-Poster: Melanie Schuessler > >Greetings to the List! > >I have a mystery and ask your aid. On page 129 of _Queen Elizabeth's >Wardrobe Unlock'd_, there is a portrait (figure 200) whose caption runs as >follows: > >'Portrait of an unknown Italian lady', by an unknown artist, c. 1570-80. >Her deep mulberry jerkin is heavily embroidered with gold thread and pearls >and lies open at the neck, revealing the striped silk beneath. Present >whereabouts unknown. > >Notice the number of "unknowns" in this caption! What I am looking for is >a color reproduction of this portrait. For those of you whose households >are unblessed by this book, here is a little further description: the >portrait is from about waist up, and the lady has on a light (probably >white) doublet with stripes (probably gold) with narrowish sleeves and a >smallish ruff under an embroidered jerkin with fairly puffy shoulder rolls. >The neck of the jerkin lies open to reveal the top few buttons of the >doublet. Around her neck is a strand of pearls caught up at the bottom of >the jerkin opening and sporting a very large pendant with two square-cut >stones and a hanging teardrop pearl. > >Sound familiar? >Thanks for your help! >Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:04:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01899 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:04:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11780; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22132 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:15:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22121 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k625.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.225]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10374 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FBAD32.7637@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:12:34 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - obis References: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> <4.1.19990924121313.00bd2870@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >For good heavy silk brocades, though, i think I'd be inclined to look > >for Japanese kimono silk or obi. > > Weight - yes. Pattern - I don't think so. I've never seen a patterned obi > that looked like Elizabethan brocade, tho I've seen some drop-dead gorgeous > obis. > This isn't Elizabethan, but I have a pink (ugh)satin obi with sections that look just like Ottoman brocades. I mean *just* like. Carnations, tulips, etc. It looks like someone "pieced" odd-shaped pieces of brocades together. The whole pattern is actually woven not pieced. Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:20:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01918 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14333; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26255 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:31:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26247 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA08294 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:30:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:30:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out instructions sheets that come with most patterns? The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern with multiple sheets. Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:30:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01935 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:30:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15725; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27963 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:39:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27949 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09001 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Naming My Business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Thanks to everybody who's sent in ideas, so far. I realized I didn't put a deadline on the contest...but I don't think one is really needed, I'll just keep reading ideas till I find the name I'm looking for. I also forgot to ask opinions on the possible names I'm already considering. Here goes: Regalia Regalia Costume Patterns Masterpiece Patterns (is it just me, or does this sound too intimidating?) Wardrobes of The Past Wardrobes of History (My husband says these two sound as if I'm a cabinetmaker) And my husband's contribution: Complexity Patterns (To which I replied, "Right, by Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". BTW, If I end up using a name that wasn't a contribution to the contest, I will do a random drawing from all the people who have contributed. Thanks, Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:34:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01951 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:34:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17476; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29874 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:46:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29864 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:46:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:46:31 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out >instructions sheets that come with most patterns? > >The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at >once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern >with multiple sheets. > >Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > I, for one, don't really care what format the instructions are in. My concerns are that they are complete and understandable. A pet peeve is that assumptions are sometimes made that someone knows what a sewing term means, and does not bother to explain the term. That becomes a problem when my sister, for example, tries to sew because she sews very seldom and can't remember one term from another. Then she calls me and I have to explain terms long distance. I'm going to buy her a basic sewing book for Christmas. Two cents worth, LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01974 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21316; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02232 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:53:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02221 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA24578; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FBB732.57C33226@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:55:15 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out > instructions sheets that come with most patterns? I think they're fine. > The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at > once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern > with multiple sheets. But this isn't the fault of the instruction sheets now is it? *GGGGGGGGG* (meant with loving kindness :) ) > Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? As some one else said, it doesn't matter to me as long as they make sense. If you need anyone one to try them out just let me know! I'm willing. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02014 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22415; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03997 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:00:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03986 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:00:08 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.213] (ppp191.creative.net [208.225.99.191]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11994 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:07:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Margo Anderson wrote: >I also forgot to ask opinions on the possible names I'm already considering. >Here goes: > >Regalia >Regalia Costume Patterns This sounds good. >Masterpiece Patterns (is it just me, or does this sound too intimidating?) I don't like this >Wardrobes of The Past I don't like this >Wardrobes of History (My husband says these two sound as if I'm a >cabinetmaker) I think this sounds good. >And my husband's contribution: Complexity Patterns (To which I replied, >"Right, by Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". No comment :-) You might want to make sure someone else hasn't already registered it, but i think i like Regalia (Costume Patterns) best. Best wishes, Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 15:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02024 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:54:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23363; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05773 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:06:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05764 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991006210654.JFYP13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:06:54 -0700 Message-ID: <37FBBA0C.BAEC7FB8@home.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:07:24 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold > out instructions sheets that come with most patterns? I use them folded out & folded every which way! > The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps > at once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex > pattern with multiple sheets. This happens to me no matter *what* the instructions are formatted like! OTOH I live with two kids, five cats & a dh!! > Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be > preferable? We-ell... since you're asking... I think that an 8-1/2 x 11" format would be killer... then I could load them all in plastic paper protectors & put them in a notebook! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:03:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02045 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:03:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24639; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08228 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:16:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08138 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00608 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991006172027.006afd8c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:20:27 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns - Household Hints In-Reply-To: References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >>I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out >>instructions sheets that come with most patterns? ...I always seem to >>misplace them, especially with a complex pattern with multiple sheets. After I cut out pattern pieces, I can never get all of them and the instructions back in the envelope. To keep from losing pieces, I bought a box of large (about 8x10 inches) plastic "zip-lock" storage bags. They are cheap, I put the envelope in the front so I know what's in the bag, and I can fit all the instructions, my notes, pieces, and any brown paper extensions, etc. that I created if I altered the pattern. No muss, no fuss, no loss. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:08:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02049 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:08:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25168; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08735 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:18:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08720 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 132.198.103.243 (132.198.103.243) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.47BD3390@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:26 -0500 Message-ID: <37FBCC9E.4E19@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:26:48 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Found it Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hope Greenberg I've been looking for another example of the strange "linen band wrap" hat that is worn by the Magdalen in Rogier van der Weyden's painting. I finally found it. It's another painting by Rogier, this time worn by an attendant of Mary's. You can see it at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing! Well, it proves that Rogier used this type of hat in two paintings, but it prooves nothing about whether this was a figment of his imagination, a weird one-only hat worn by someone he once saw, or something else. I don't know, but thought you might like to see it. - Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:10:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02055 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:10:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25425; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:22:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10020 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:22:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10009 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id OAA25789; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FBBE10.1FD94B60@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:24:32 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns - Household Hints References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> <3.0.3.32.19991006172027.006afd8c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > After I cut out pattern pieces, I can never get all of them and the > instructions back in the envelope. To keep from losing pieces, I > bought a box of large (about 8x10 inches) plastic "zip-lock" > storage bags. That's what I do too. The bags are a god send to costumers. And everyone else. I never use them for food. *GGGG* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:14:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02063 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:14:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25967; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11201 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:26:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11184 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ENAC2H7N; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:25:47 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Name my business Message-ID: <19991006.130418.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <007101bf1020$67c19140$7ad0f1c3@henktjong> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5 From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:25:47 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley How about: Here's My Ad Dress. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:28:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02069 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:28:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28535; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14773 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:40:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14750 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:40:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TGTh9deJ_ (4261) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3ef6a50f.252d1bae@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:39:58 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Pattern Instruction Sheets To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com In a message dated 10/06/1999 4:24:53 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: > The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at > once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern > with multiple sheets. > > Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? > As long as you have the steps in order - I remember when using Alter Years' bodice and corset patterns that I had to keep flipping back and forth in their booklet and kept losing track of what I was doing. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time Patience is not passive; on the contrary, it is active; it is concentrated strength. - Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:40:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02077 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00386; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17669 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:52:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17655 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.101] (ell245.acadia.net [205.217.210.101]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26313 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:00:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: velvet, plush. etc. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> This is a description of weaving velvet: historically, plush is simply velvet woven with wool instead of silk. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02087 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:52:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02122; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20936 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:05:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20927 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:05:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PUJa01795 (3961) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b5631986.252d2181@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:04:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/6/99 9:00:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, lilinah@grin.net writes: << You might want to make sure someone else hasn't already registered it, but i think i like Regalia (Costume Patterns) best. Best wishes, Lilinah >> For what it's worth, I like this one too. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02091 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02326; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21335 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:07:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21298 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.101] (ell190.acadia.net [205.217.210.32]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28647 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:15:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: mystery portrait Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << If not you might try writing the publisher to see if they know where Janet found a color copy of it. >> It's much more likely that Janet found the portrait at some point in her travels, in a private collection. She "collected" paintings and portraits for well over 25 years, and had amassed a collection of over 100,000 images (in slides) when she died, most of which she took herself. As someone has mentioned, paintings and portraits are sold, often from collector to collector, and disappear from view. I think it's highly likely Janet saw and photographed the portrait years before she published her book, and by the time the book was ready for print, the portrait had been sold, and she was unaware of the new owner, which is why it's credited the way it is. There's no reason to assume it's ever been published anywhere else. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02108 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:57:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02689; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21868 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:09:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21857 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA27673; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FBC917.7BF1574D@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:11:35 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it References: <37FBCC9E.4E19@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th > So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely > nothing! *laugh* I agree. Since both ladies are in the religious categories, I would still hesitate to use them for a regular ol' person. I *would* use it for a masque or something like that. :) > Well, it proves that Rogier used this type of hat in two > paintings, but it prooves nothing about whether this was a figment of > his imagination, a weird one-only hat worn by someone he once saw, or > something else. I don't know, but thought you might like to see it. Thanks! Great site. I've seen it before, but missed this somehow. I've heard many folks say that Rogier has a screw loose or a creative mind (whichever suits) when it comes to hats. *GGG* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 16:59:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02119 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03052; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22318 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:11:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22299 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991006221113.MMO14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:11:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:14:47 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Pacific NW Costume & Textiles From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3022067687_45269_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19991006221113.MMO14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3022067687_45269_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Following is an updatedVictoria Rivers -- will be visiting Seattle on October 21-22 to speak at a Thursday evening opening at Material Possessions and to give a "collections seminar" at the Henry Gallery the following noon, October 22nd. Victoria is a professor of textile history and studio fiber arts at UC, Davis. Her visit will coincide with the Thames & Hudson publication of her new book, *The Shining Cloth*. She will be using pieces from the Henry's collection to illustrate points from the book in her talk. Contact Judy Sourakli at the Henry Gallery (543-2281) or me (441-4459) for further details. *Songet - Gilt Cloth of Indonesia*. 19th & 20th century gold and silver embellished textiles worn on ceremonial occasions in Sumatra and Malaysia. Material Possessions gallery. 1932 First Ave #610. Seattle, WA 98101. Contact Linda Beeman 206-41-4459. through 31 December. *Woven Symbols: Chinese Garments and Textiles*. Seattle Asian Art Museum. Volunteer Park. Seattle, WA. through 2 April. *Talking Fingers: Contemporary Weavings from the Northern Northwest Coast*. Seattle Art Museum. Seattle, WA through 23 April. *Textiles and Temples in Northeast India*. Presentation by Robb Shep at the Seattle Textile & Rug Society on Oct 14th. 206-325-8907. email stars.1@usa.net *Broken Threads - From Aryanization to Cultural Loss: The Destruction of the Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria*. includes 40 costumes. Vancouver Holocaust Ed. Centre. 50-950 W. 41 St. Vancouver, BC V5Z 2N7. 804-264-0499. through 15 March. *Woman of Fashion: Guendolen Plestcheeff Collection. Museum of History and Industry. Seattle. through 14 Oct. *Textile Tapestries* by Nulie Oigaard noted stage designer and painter. Nordic Heritage Museum. Seattle. WA through 14 November. *Age of Victoria* painting and sculpture from the Royal Academy of Art - London. Includies many portraits showing costume. Frye Art Museum. Seattle. through 2 January. *Asian Pacific American Veterans* serving in different wars. Uniforms, etc. Also ethnic clothing of Asians who came to the NW. Wing Luke Museum. Internaional District. Seattle. through 9 April *RAGS 2000* Wearable Art Show & Sale Benefiting the YWCA of Tacoma. Larson Mercedes Benz in Fife just off I-5. 9 - 12 March. *Beads and Fabric* 10 Seattle Area Artists. North Seattle CC Art Gallery. 12 Oct to 5 Nov. list of costume and textile exhibits, etc. in the Pacific North West. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3022067687_45269_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Pacific NW Costume & Textiles Following is an updatedVictoria Rivers -- will be= visiting Seattle on October 21-22 to speak at a Thursday evening opening at= Material Possessions and to give a "collections seminar" at the H= enry Gallery the following noon, October 22nd. Victoria is a professor of t= extile history and studio fiber arts at UC, Davis. Her visit will coincide = with the Thames & Hudson publication of her new book, *The Shining Cloth= *. She will be using pieces from the Henry's collection to illustrate poin= ts from the book in her talk.
Contact Judy Sourakli at the Henry Gallery (543-2281) or me (441-4459) for = further details.

*Songet - Gilt Cloth of Indonesia*. 19th & 20th century gold and silve= r embellished textiles worn on ceremonial occasions in Sumatra and Malaysia.= Material Possessions gallery. 1932 First Ave #610. Seattle, WA 98101. C= ontact Linda Beeman 206-41-4459. through 31 December.

*Woven Symbols: Chinese Garments and Textiles*. Seattle Asian Art Museum. = Volunteer Park. Seattle, WA. through 2 April.

*Talking Fingers: Contemporary Weavings from the Northern Northwest Coast*.= Seattle Art Museum. Seattle, WA through 23 April.

*Textiles and Temples in Northeast India*. Presentation by Robb Shep at th= e Seattle Textile & Rug Society on Oct 14th. 206-325-8907. email stars= .1@usa.net

*Broken Threads - From Aryanization to Cultural Loss: The Destruction of th= e Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria*. includes 40 costumes. V= ancouver Holocaust Ed. Centre. 50-950 W. 41 St. Vancouver, BC V5Z 2N7. 804-= 264-0499. through 15 March.

*Woman of Fashion: Guendolen Plestcheeff Collection. Museum of History and= Industry. Seattle. through 14 Oct.

*Textile Tapestries* by Nulie Oigaard noted stage designer and painter. N= ordic Heritage Museum. Seattle. WA through 14 November.

*Age of Victoria* painting and sculpture from the Royal Academy of Art - Lo= ndon. Includies many portraits showing costume. Frye Art Museum. Seattle. = through 2 January.

*Asian Pacific American Veterans* serving in different wars. Uniforms, etc.= Also ethnic clothing of Asians who came to the NW. Wing Luke Museum. Inter= naional District. Seattle. through 9 April

*RAGS 2000* Wearable Art Show & Sale Benefiting the YWCA of Tacoma.
Larson Mercedes Benz in Fife just off I-5. 9 - 12 March.

*Beads and Fabric* 10 Seattle Area Artists. North Seattle CC Art Gallery. 1= 2 Oct to 5 Nov. list of costume and textile exhibits, etc. in= the Pacific North West.


~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com
 --MS_Mac_OE_3022067687_45269_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 17:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02176 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:16:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05406; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26777 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaad.compuserve.com (as-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26765 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id SAA08357 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:27:24 -0400 From: Margaret Bolger Subject: H-COST: Vintage Textiles Sale To: all Message-ID: <199910061827_MC2-87EA-D248@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA26767 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margaret Bolger Just received this message, which I thought might be of interest to you. If you have any queries please contact them direct as I am about to go off-list until my return from holiday on 20th October! Margaret antique costume & textiles http://www.artizania.co.uk **************************** >>Vintage Textiles will be in Santa Monica for a private trunk show clearance sale of our antique and vintage fabrics. We will offer sumptuous velvet drapery in a rainbow of old world colors, French and English homespuns, East Indian silk and silver wedding sarees, European brocade and damask drapery, circa 1930's. We will also be showing a small collection of rare 19th century lace handkerchiefs and trim. During the following dates and times, Vintage Textiles will be available for appointments in Santa Monica, California: Friday, October 8 - 1:00pm to 7:00pm Saturday, October 9 - 9:00am to 7:00pm Sunday, October 10 - not available Monday, October 11 - 9:00am to 7:00pm Tuesday, October 12 - 7:00pm to 9:00pm Wednesday, October 13 - 9:00am to 5:00pm Please let us know of your interest by calling Gailen Moore at our Soquel home office at (831) 476-9007. We will be checking our messages several times everyday. Please note: We will not be checking our email during the sale dates, so please call if you need to reach us. Best regards, Gailen Moore www.vintagetextiles.com << _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 17:17:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02180 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:17:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05553; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27061 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:29:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f292.hotmail.com [207.82.251.183]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA27047 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 88752 invoked by uid 0); 6 Oct 1999 22:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19991006222849.88751.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:28:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:28:49 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold >out >instructions sheets that come with most patterns? Not usually. >Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be >preferable? Very much so. Especially with 3 ring binder holes so we can protect a cheap paperback copy! :) Allessandre (the Frugal) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 17:22:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02194 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06198; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27965 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27950 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p30.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.30]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24585 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:32:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37FBD09D.63C10987@mail.brightok.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:43:42 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders What about.... Margo's Historic Patterns _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 17:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02198 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:26:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07184; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29309 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:38:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29302 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:38:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6XBIa11018 (3968) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.32030054.252d2956@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:38:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Houppelande To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Henk: Is it possible that the garment is a pelicon rather than a houppelande? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 18:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02316 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15631; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12455 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:42:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12448 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p30.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.30]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13396 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:42:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37FBE101.CEA5A9A8@mail.brightok.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:53:37 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> <37FBD09D.63C10987@mail.brightok.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E21C4C2E3A5829925A969FA6" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders --------------E21C4C2E3A5829925A969FA6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about..... Measures of Time Historic Patterns and Accessories --------------E21C4C2E3A5829925A969FA6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

How about.....
Measures of Time
Historic Patterns and Accessories
  --------------E21C4C2E3A5829925A969FA6-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 18:41:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02331 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17134; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15409 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:53:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15395 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:53:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1272868440==_ma============" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FBE101.CEA5A9A8@mail.brightok.net> References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> <37FBD09D.63C10987@mail.brightok.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:53:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward --============_-1272868440==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > The Mulders suggested: > >How about..... Measures of Time >Historic Patterns and Accessories > OOOH. I like that one. I always wanted to make up cards for a historic costume company named "Leap of Faith", because isn't it? but the only people who would have understood were the people who didn't need my help. LynnD --============_-1272868440==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" The Mulders suggested: How about..... Measures of Time Historic Patterns and Accessories OOOH. I like that one. I always wanted to make up cards for a historic costume company named "Leap of Faith", because isn't it? but the only people who would have understood were the people who didn't need my help. LynnD --============_-1272868440==_ma============-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 19:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02384 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:06:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22241; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19510 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:19:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from s-mail3.hanmail.net ([210.217.33.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19486 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www6.hanmail.net (www6.hanmail.net [210.217.33.26]) by s-mail3.hanmail.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01655; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:01:49 +0900 Received: (from hanadmin@localhost) by www6.hanmail.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA26234; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:04:30 +0900 (KST) X-Originating-IP: [210.102.100.103] From: "ÃÖº¸À±" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: I recommand a good internet site. X-Mailer: Daum Web Mailer 1.0 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:04:29 KST Message-Id: <19991007090429.HM.500000000005ZTu@www6.hanmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "ÃÖº¸À±" I recommand a good internet site. http://www.firstview.com In this site, you can see collections of many designers. Please.... go there and enjoy many good works!!! ================================================== NO. 1 ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, ´ÙÀ½ ò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀÏ³Ý http://www.daum.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 19:31:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02406 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24973; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22697 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:39:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22690 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:39:10 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.226.136] (dialup-209.244.226.136.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.226.136]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16196 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:39:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:43:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com Re: sewing machines I have a Bernina and love it- it's hardly given me any trouble over almost 20 years. BUT- when I was having some problems, the licensed service people were the absolutely worst I have ever encountered. The held my machine twice for 4 months each time, didn't do the adjustments that they said would take "a couple of weeks", and I only got it back finally after my husband went down there and kinda threatened them- with legal action, not violence! When I complained to Bernina they wrote back and said I was lying and that the service people were wonderful. The BBB and the DA eventually closed the service people down. So check out the service before buying a Bernina! -Amanda who has her eye on a Viking - nice machine and lots of licensed service people! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 19:39:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02431 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26380; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24052 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:49:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24045 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p30.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.30]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01056 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:49:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37FBF096.B83E0D12@mail.brightok.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:00:06 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders When I had my bernina serviced in OKC I had to write a check. They didn't even ask for ID!!!!! She said in the 21 years of service they never had a bad check from a bernina owner!!!! How about that!! :) sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com > > Re: sewing machines > > I have a Bernina and love it- it's hardly given me any trouble over almost > 20 years. > > BUT- when I was having some problems, the licensed service people were the > absolutely worst I have ever encountered. The held my machine twice for 4 > months each time, didn't do the adjustments that they said would take "a > couple of weeks", and I only got it back finally after my husband went down > there and kinda threatened them- with legal action, not violence! > > When I complained to Bernina they wrote back and said I was lying and that > the service people were wonderful. > > The BBB and the DA eventually closed the service people down. > > So check out the service before buying a Bernina! > > -Amanda > who has her eye on a Viking - nice machine and lots of licensed > service people! > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 19:41:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02441 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:41:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26694; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24616 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:53:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24607 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p17.directcon.net [206.170.184.116]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05461 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:51:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:51:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199910070051.RAA05461@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >The BBB and the DA eventually closed the service people down. > >So check out the service before buying a Bernina! > This is true no matter what machine you're looking at. Check out the service department, ask questions of other people who use them if possible. Of course, if you move...I have two Vikings and the only person in town who works on them is a banshee. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 20:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02490 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:45:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03943; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03541 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:57:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03530 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03449 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008401bf1067$c0fdd600$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:00:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I just like it to fit back into the pattern envelope. I rather like some of the folkwear and other small company patterns that are in large plastic ziploc bags - they seem to go back in better. Also, no cheap smudged copies - clear print only please. Particularly if I'm paying a premium price, I would like a clean copy. BTW, what pattern(s) will you start with and when can I buy some? -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Downward To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets > >-Poster: Lynn Downward > >>-Poster: Margo Anderson >> >>I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out >>instructions sheets that come with most patterns? >> >>The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at >>once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern >>with multiple sheets. >> >>Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? >> >>Margo >> >>"One Tough Costumer" >>http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm >> >I, for one, don't really care what format the instructions are in. My >concerns are that they are complete and understandable. A pet peeve is >that assumptions are sometimes made that someone knows what a sewing term >means, and does not bother to explain the term. That becomes a problem >when my sister, for example, tries to sew because she sews very seldom and >can't remember one term from another. Then she calls me and I have to >explain terms long distance. I'm going to buy her a basic sewing book for >Christmas. > >Two cents worth, > >LynnD > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 20:52:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02496 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04959; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04433 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:02:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04421 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06704 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ae01bf1068$798a1940$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:05:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" How about "Costumes by Margo", or "Fantastic Frocks"? "Historically Yours, by Margo" or just "Historically Yours" -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:14 PM Subject: H-COST: Naming My Business > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Thanks to everybody who's sent in ideas, so far. I realized I didn't put a >deadline on the contest...but I don't think one is really needed, I'll just >keep reading ideas till I find the name I'm looking for. > >I also forgot to ask opinions on the possible names I'm already considering. >Here goes: > >Regalia >Regalia Costume Patterns > >Masterpiece Patterns (is it just me, or does this sound too intimidating?) > >Wardrobes of The Past >Wardrobes of History (My husband says these two sound as if I'm a cabinetmaker) > >And my husband's contribution: Complexity Patterns (To which I replied, >"Right, by Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". > >BTW, If I end up using a name that wasn't a contribution to the contest, I >will do a random drawing from all the people who have contributed. > >Thanks, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 20:55:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02500 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:55:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05558; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05235 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:07:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net ([205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05230 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19910 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 21:16:26 -0000 Received: from pag-di59.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.59) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 21:16:26 -0000 Message-ID: <37FBFF78.F0E93084@rica.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:03:37 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey I prefer the booklet myself, since the fold-out sheets tend to be unwieldy. Just my two cents! Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 20:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02504 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05846; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05463 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net ([205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05454 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20200 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 21:17:39 -0000 Received: from pag-di59.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.59) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 21:17:39 -0000 Message-ID: <37FBFFC1.9A735AF4@rica.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:04:50 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey Margo wrote: And my husband's contribution: Complexity Patterns (To which I replied, "Right, by Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". LOL! That gave me a good chuckle. I still have my thinking cap on..... There is so much in a name! Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02516 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:00:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06703; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06048 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:13:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06043 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991007021314.GLRY13309.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:13:14 -0700 Message-ID: <012a01bf1069$95f16920$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0BB@ACT02EXC001> <008401bf0fe3$107ec700$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:13:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Sorry, I meant to give out the url itself: http://www.io.com/~ches/h-costume/index.html But I only have 1993-1996, the other one should have the most up to date ones on it. http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/ (note new location!!) Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Franchesca Havas To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:07 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives : : -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" : : And if that link does not work you can still access them at my ftp site : zipped up. : : ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/usr/ches : : Sincerely, : F. Havas : Dallas, Texas : motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide : : ----- Original Message ----- : From: HICKS, MELISSA : To: : Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:24 AM : Subject: H-COST: Accessing the H-Costume archives : : : : : : -Poster: "HICKS, MELISSA" : : : : Janice, : : : : Thanks for this but the link doesn't bring up any information for me and : the : : "Parent Directory" doesn't seem to go anywhere. Can anyone please advise? : : In private if necessary if I'm just being incredibly dense. : : : : > According to the info I got in March, the Archives-of-a-sort may be : : > found at : : > http://www.reference.com : : > : : Thanks : : Mel. : : : : : : _________________________________________________________________ : : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : : : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:05:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02535 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07481; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:17:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06768 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:17:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06762 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27488 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-067.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.67), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAHeaOJ1; Wed Oct 6 19:17:32 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19991006192306.009542f0@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:23:55 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business In-Reply-To: <37FBE101.CEA5A9A8@mail.brightok.net> References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> <37FBD09D.63C10987@mail.brightok.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Ooooo, this is my favorite so far! (like I count?! ROFLOL) Svanny At 04:53 PM 10/06/1999 , you wrote: > > > > How about..... > Measures of Time > Historic Patterns and Accessories Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid kittykat@primenet.com ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) AIM: SvanhildrV _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:16:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02560 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08232; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08250 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:28:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08240 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22412 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005001bf106c$145cc640$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:31:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I still haven't come up with anything I like better than "One Tough Costumer." The best I've thought of so far is "The Cabbage Rose,"--cabbage, of course, being fabric scraps, one of the historical perqs of being a tailor. But that's a bit oblique. "Present Past (or Past Present)" was another idea, although it sounds a bit like a grammatical tense. Heck, *I* like Panache. I think it's a lot better known word than "Seraglio" (which still trips up my tongue). Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02604 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:33:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09874; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10752 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:45:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10740 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.137] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Z3Yr-0005m8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:45:42 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:42:46 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business In-Reply-To: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:37 PM 10/06/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson >I also forgot to ask opinions on the possible names I'm already considering. >Here goes: >Regalia >Regalia Costume Patterns Regalia may win those who wish to appear Royal, but it doesn't attract me at all, even though I love lovely attire. >Masterpiece Patterns (is it just me, or does this sound too intimidating?) The problem, for me, with the word Masterpiece is that it seems overworked. As in "Perfect Patterns" or that kind of thing. I'd feel like nit-picking it to death just for the name, and I try not to be 'snarky'. Appearances aside. These are just my own quibbles/foibles, after all. >Wardrobes of The Past >Wardrobes of History (My husband says these two sound as if I'm a cabinetmaker) "Robe Yourself in History" might be a great come-on line for your website! >And my husband's contribution: Complexity Patterns (To which I replied, >"Right, by Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". You're right. It's like my former hippy acquaintance who swore he loved the sound of the word larceny and intended to name his daughter that...ACK!!! Better might be: "Patterns from the Past...Without the Pain!" :-) >BTW, If I end up using a name that wasn't a contribution to the contest, I >will do a random drawing from all the people who have contributed. I hope the right name appears and that you do wonderfully, Lady! Best of fortune.-- Carol, still hoping to meet you one day... >Thanks, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:41:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02615 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:41:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10865; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12153 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:56:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12145 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.137] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Z3iw-0006dv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:56:07 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:53:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns - Household Hints In-Reply-To: <37FBBE10.1FD94B60@serv.net> References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> <3.0.3.32.19991006172027.006afd8c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 02:24 PM 10/06/1999 -0700, you wrote: I bought a box of large (about 8x10 inches) plastic "zip-lock" storage bags. That's what I do too. The bags are a god send to costumers. And everyone else. I never use them for food. *GGGG* Cynthia And I store my shoes in them at events in places where creepy-crawlies like to creep into such items and hide... . I also use them for keeping notes with patterns/&c. Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02636 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11396; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12963 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:01:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12958 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:01:48 -0600 (MDT) From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Received: from JPMcTeer@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HKCa15805 (4008) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.79ed6622.252d66fa@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:01:14 EDT Subject: H-COST: Margo's business name, packaging, seam allowance To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com In response to Margo's questions about her business, I have some questions for her. # Who is your target customer? # How do you propose to advertise to those customers? The background of your customer and advertising venues will help determine the name. In the past, you listed various names you have used as a person - perhaps one of these would be a starting point to relate to a large group of people. As we know, on this list we like abbreviations for various things, including MM for a line of patterns. Make sure the name is pronounceable or memorable if abbreviated - or plan ahead to use both a name and an acronym. # How do you plan to package the patterns? How much room will you have for a logo design that will help sell the pattern if it's in a rack display? How much space will you devote to a drawing or photo of the costume? How will it be shipped in single or multiple orders? (The priority mail envelopes and boxes from the Post Office are very handy.) I personally prefer the 8 1/2 by 11 format for shop bibles of sketches, swatches, and instructions. Since I did not learn to sew on street clothes, I dislike those foldout instruction sheets. Another thing I personally dislike is having someone else determine the seam allowance for me and include it in the pattern, since I hardly ever start with a 5/8" seam allowance. "Show me the stitching line!" and let me determine how much seam allowance to use. I am accustomed to heavy paper patterns with no seam allowance and notches INTO the paper to use as match up marks. Putting the notches on the edge of the seam allowance means that their accuracy is compromised when I try to bring them back to the stitch line before I cut my stiff paper copy without a seam allowance. As to the proposed names, might be limiting if you branch out into peasant costumes. Perhaps it could be a subheading in your company to indicate a collection or line of court costumes. (Think of Couture versus off-the-rack). Thanks for listening. I just bought a pattern on ebay that had "assumed" seam allowance onto actual historic patterns - very annoying! Joan in Minneapolis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:50:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02653 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:50:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11688; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13367 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:05:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13362 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in154.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.154]) by vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA01407 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01dc01bf1070$b9799dc0$9a5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:04:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > > The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at > once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern > with multiple sheets. > > Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? > I hung a bulletin board next to my sewing machine and I tack up instructions and the pattern envelopes as well as a scrap of the fabric in case I need to test tension or something. When I remember, I put buttons, zippers, etc. in the pattern envelope also - that way they are "there" when I need them. It only took my 20 years of sewing to realize that I shouldn't be scrounging around the room for various pieces every 20 minutes. I also attached a pair of thread clippers to a very long piece of ribbon and tacked it to the board. It has all really helped me salvage some of my sanity. Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:54:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02661 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12135; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13889 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:08:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.leading.net (root@smtp.leading.net [207.98.192.90]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13878 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net (a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net [216.199.27.243]) by smtp.leading.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA24590 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910070308.XAA24590@smtp.leading.net> From: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Date: Wed, 06 Oct 99 22:57:57 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" On reading my backlog, I come across this post: -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins > >>I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually >>found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, >and >>two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck >and >>the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the >result >>is that the dress raises the breasts high up. You also get incredible >>elastic-like tension on the neckline that holds it right against the >body, >>no gapping or "falling out." > >I'd be interested in seeing a well made 4-piece cotehardie gown. Does I'd be interested in seeing your documentation, my lady. I've seen some OK stuff, but I'm mostly running on feelings down here, and am surrounded by people who seem to think that the cotehardie was a tight version of the "Greenland Gown" (I like that name, as it strongly insinuates that it was worn in Greenland, as opposed to, say, France), unless perhaps they wear it because it's easier to fit their more substantial curves into. I've worked out a pattern that fits me perfectly and gives just the right silhouette, and the lady Elizabeth quoted is right, it is possible and quite easy actually to work out. You just have to give up your attachment to straight lines: the only straight lines in my pattern are in the skirt. It also helps to come from working on 12th and 13th century garb -- they had a lot in common, when you get down to the basic thought processes involved in layout and design. Yours in the Dream, Arianne de Dragonnid Shire of Castlemere, Kingdom of Trimaris %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "The founder of my noble line was wont to see Dragons. His Lady rode out from the forest in a gown of samite and was as young on the day he died as on their wedding day." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:58:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02672 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:58:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12514; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14454 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:12:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14446 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k576.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.176]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19397 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FC0EFF.141F@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:09:51 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: shining cloth References: <19991006221113.MMO14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi R.L. Shep wrote: > > Following is an updatedVictoria Rivers -- will be visiting Seattle on > October 21-22 to speak at a Thursday evening opening at Material > Possessions and to give a "collections seminar" at the Henry Gallery > the following noon, October 22nd. Victoria is a professor of textile > history and studio fiber arts at UC, Davis. Her visit will coincide > with the Thames & Hudson publication of her new book, *The Shining > Cloth*. My copy of this book *just* arrived from Amazon. Haven't had time to really go thru' it but it looks fabulous! Wish I could attend all the events as well! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 22:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02748 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:53:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17416; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22308 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:07:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22300 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:07:38 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.62] (ppp62.creative.net [208.225.99.62]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25037 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FBCC9E.4E19@uvm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:15:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Hope Greenberg wrote: > >I've been looking for another example of the strange "linen band wrap" >hat that is worn by the Magdalen in Rogier van der Weyden's painting. I >finally found it. It's another painting by Rogier, this time worn by an >attendant of Mary's. You can see it at: >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th >So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely >nothing! Well, it proves that Rogier used this type of hat in two >paintings, but it prooves nothing about whether this was a figment of >his imagination, a weird one-only hat worn by someone he once saw, or >something else. I don't know, but thought you might like to see it. Having not really much to do with whether or not this is an actuall sort of headdress in the 15th C., i will note that Gautemalan women in some regions wear (or at least traditionally wore), a headdress made of a narrow hand woven tapestry band wrapped around their heads in a manner awefully similar those in these two paintings, except they don't have lace edges and they are quite brightly colored. These Guatemalan head bands were eventually somewhat commercialized in the 1970's and have since been sold as decorative trim in the US (here in No Cal, at least). I just bought some a month or two ago. But once upon a time, they were wound around their heads into a big flat wheel, very like van der Weyden's paintings. So, it's historical, if not Low Land-ish :-) Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:13:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02770 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18948; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25142 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:28:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f32.hotmail.com [207.82.250.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA25128 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 34184 invoked by uid 0); 7 Oct 1999 04:27:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19991007042736.34183.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.35.11 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:27:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.35.11] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:27:35 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > >-Poster: Margo Anderson "Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". > Catchy name. Twisted, shows ingenuity and ambition; with just a touch of insanity. I like it. :-) Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:21:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02789 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19420; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26130 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:35:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (IDENT:XZVhDcppyKJ2TGOx2hKjheQof7BQG5wl@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA26118 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m11Z5Gj-000dRQC; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max5-41.worldaccessnet.com(206.190.132.141), claiming to be "sidne" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa001Ep; Wed Oct 6 21:34:55 1999 Message-ID: <03f901bf107d$1b4004c0$8d84bece@sidne> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: naming Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:31:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" I really like Measure of Time !!!! Really!! Sidne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:24:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02799 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19779; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26694 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:39:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26685 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Z5LG-0007Xa-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:39:47 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005140652.00bd9100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991005140652.00bd9100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:13:53 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <006701bf0f7b$c3b86960$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Sari-weight silk has to be lightweight to hang right. It's really scarfy >>and floaty, and However, many of the "special occasion" saris could not be >described as "scarfy and floaty." I know this from first-hand experience >pawing over some of these "special" saris at a Toronto shop. The silk is >supple, but quite dense, and usually there is some pretty serious brocading >going on (not just at the hems) which also increases the weight. These are >the kind of saris which are worn for weddings or festivals. When lined (and >not even heavily lined) can do a pretty good job of duplicating the look of >Elizabethan silks. Mea oops-a. I used to own a red sari the dealer said was for weddings, and it was pretty stiffly encrusted with gold and silver threads. The cloth was thin between the metal threads, see-thru in fact. And yes, I have seen others of stuff the weight of dupioni silk with additional metal threads. I agree - these are not your everyday wear. Many sari stores in this area don't even carry saris that high-end. (But my favourite sari stores are the ones which sell remnants.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:36:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02838 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20813; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28151 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28144 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.80]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991007045035.XVCK24372@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:50:35 +0000 Message-ID: <37FC164F.535A26FC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:41:03 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines References: <45449d73.252ae3d8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > << I'd recommend a Pfaff. (huge snip)>> > > << I'd be leery myself - Pfaff recently declared bankruptcy and while that > doesn't spell their death knell yet, it's not a good sign. I vote for New > Home/Janome. But talk about your bells and whistles! >> > > Carolyn, Pfaff is currently owned by Singer, which I doubt is going under > any time soon. The company has filed for reorganization/protection from > creditors, which is true of perhaps a third of the corporations in this > country and abroad at any given time. My leeriness is based on the fact that Pfaff is a *German* based company which means that the bankruptcy laws may not be the same as they are in the US (which tends to be more lenient in that regard), although I confess I don't know what the German bankruptcy laws are like. Second, Singer declared bankruptcy *primarily* because of Pfaff's bankruptcy - if it hadn't been for that there's doubt that there would have been a serious need for it. That indicates to me that the financial position of Singer is a little more precarious than they *may* be letting on. Is that reasonf or panic or not buying Pfaff? No, that's not what I said - I just said I'd be leery (i.e. cautious) because of the problems. I seriously doubt Singer will go under, but that's no guarantee for their Pfaff division. Carolyn (a mundane accountant and one who's been thru one too many "reorganizations" for her liking) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:38:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02847 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:38:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20844; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28193 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28184 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.80]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991007045050.XVEL24372@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: <37FC18B4.A67C7914@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:51:16 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recommended topend machine & iron References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Deborah Pulliam wrote: > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > < Maybe I should treat mine with more respect.>> > > The ancient Kenmores are mostly ancient Singers. Sears didn't do any of > their own manufacturing of anything; all appliances, etc. were made for > them by other manufacturers. At various times, the sewing machines were > made by Singer and White, and probably others. Actually, Singer *never* made badged machines. But White, National and a ton of others did, and many of them made "clones" of Singer machines. And I mean down to the parts being interchangeable. My mother-in-law has a clone of the later Singer 115 models made in Japan. As long as they're solid metal, it doesn't really matter who made them - they'll sew thru darn near anything. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:38:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02851 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20943; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28277 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28269 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.80]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991007045120.XVJD24372@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:51:20 +0000 Message-ID: <37FC1B19.D72C1C40@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:01:29 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Sari silk References: <000001bf101f$b07ce930$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Cynthia Barnes wrote: > > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > >That's very strange. I've never seen that cotton facing thing up here. the only sari's I own with the cotton facing tend to be very light weight polyester chiffons. I call the cotton the "dust ruffle" although I don't know what the Indian's call it. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:39:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02855 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21112; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28610 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:54:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28601 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.224]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05072 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:54:35 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:54:22 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: mystery portrait Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com >Have you tried comparing the sitter to other portraits in the book where you >might find a suspected artist? Then you could search the art websites by >artist, or maybe you should just try searching them by year. That's a thought, though I would certainly be an amateur art analyst. I would say that the artist is likely Italian or Spanish, as the features show more sensitivity than the rather abstracted English style, but beyond that I can't make any guesses. >If you could provide a scan of the portrait, so that we could see what you're >looking for, perhaps I might have it in my database of acquired >portraiture... the written description sounds like so many Elizabethan >portraits. As it happens, I'm getting a scanner relatively soon. I'll send you a copy when I have it. As Deborah and Robin rightly suggest, I suspect that this portrait is in a private collection and that the only color reproduction may be in Janet Arnold's archives (oh for an hour in there with a large sack!!). >-Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" > >I am afraid that I don't have time to look but is >there an index of the portraits in the book? If so that may give you more >information. If not you might try writing the publisher to see if they know >where Janet found a color copy of it. The only other thing you might be able >to do is see if indexes of portraits exist (I know they exist for >illuminations). These indexes tell where the art work in particular is >published. The photographic acknowledgements do not list this image. When looking in an index, how would I locate this portrait (no artist, no subject, no location)? Is there a listing under Unknown? I have looked in Carol Jackson's collection online (in the unknown section)--are there others I should try? Many thanks for all the kind suggestions! Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:53:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02955 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:53:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25685; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06252 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:05:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06244 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p4.directcon.net [206.170.184.53]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA07461 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:04:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:04:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199910070604.XAA07461@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Obscure machine: "Domestic" brand "Gaiety" model Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:43 PM 10/05/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Heather Law > >Has anyone ever heard of this machine ("Gaiety" is a decal on the >machine, "Domestic" is a metal logo)? The White sewing machine company used to be called White Domestic. I believe the "Domestic" name was a seperate company that White later merged with. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:00:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02967 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:00:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26065; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06894 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:12:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06886 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26128 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-117.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.117]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26437 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002201bf108c$63faa620$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:22:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > So maybe the makers of thread that won't work in our machines need >to hear a write in letter campaign from us each saying that they're losing >a lot of money because we can't/won't buy their product as long as it costs >us extra time/money/repair bills/frustration. Carol Absolutely, but do you think that they will care? I am not sure that it is a problem only with Viking machines. In the large scheme of things, Vikings machine users may only be a mere .08% of the mass of sewing machines in use out there. It may make more sense to complain to Viking to fine tune the burrs. However, in the long run, I would prefer better quality thread. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:01:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02979 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26172; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA07148 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:15:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07141 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26769 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27780 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003301bf108c$c023c9e0$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:24:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > >Cutesy-pie's Lovable Costume Emporium? > Be careful! She warned you!! ;) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:22:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02988 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:22:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27051; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08981 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:36:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08965 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-35.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.35]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA29532 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991007023543.009c4380@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 02:35:43 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19991006010528.009aabb0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Everybody's talking about using saris in various types of garb; out of >curiosity, as someone living in a place where saris just aren't seen, >how much do the nice, heavy, somewhat appropriate wedding saris cost? It completely depends on the quality of the sari, how well you know the merchant, and how well you bargin. Around here, bargaining starts at half of the price tag and goes down from there. I've paid as little as $100 Canadian and up. There's one in particular I'm lusting after that is $700. Sigh. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:22:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02992 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27052; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08978 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:36:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08960 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-35.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.35]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA29520 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991007023301.009cb1c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 02:33:01 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Sari silk In-Reply-To: <000001bf101f$b07ce930$6b037a86@phoenix.com> References: <199910060515.XAA08415@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I rather doubt this has to do w/ the Southern US. It was just a thought. ;) >You probably dont take the sari you're interested to the desk and ask >them to apply the cotton thingy (it has a name, which escapes me), or to >cut off the extra meter to make the matching blouse. Most sari shops >include these services in the cost of the garment just as Nordstroms >includes the cost of small alterations in mens pants. By taking the sari >as yardage (would that be "meter-age"?) you are saving them this >trouble. You could probably wangle a discount knowing this. Actually, even in the ones my Indian friends wear I've never seen it. Maybe it's a tradition from a certain locality in India. Also making the choli is an "extra" in all the stores that I frequent (I'm on excellent terms with the some of the merchants and had asked about it). And yes, it's still yardage. Actually, fabric shopping around here can get kind of confusing. Half the stores (non culturally specific stores) sell by the meter and yet a lot of the stores in the garment district still sell by the yard. When you go fabric shopping you have to go armed with the amount you need in yards and in meters. Cheers, Danielle >>ask for Banarsi > >OTOH, if you like 2-3" border weaves in "cloth of gold" or brass w/ nifty >CofG medallions all over, ask for the Bombay style saris. Great for >Victorian "a disposition" gowns in fancy dress themes. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >408.570.1023 >Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com >Phoenix Technologies >411 E. Plumeria Dr. >San Jose CA 95134 >"I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and >give the wrong answers." > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03013 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27323; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09559 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:41:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09547 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.162] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Z7FP-0001Fe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:41:51 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:38:56 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines In-Reply-To: <002201bf108c$63faa620$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:22 PM 10/06/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" >Absolutely, but do you think that they will care? I am not sure that it is >a problem only with Viking machines. I did not address Viking's machines only. I meant everyone here whose machine acts this way with the less expensive threads. And yes, I think that if we and SCA-Garb and some of the reenactment groups began an extensive write-in campaign, and boycott of the offending thread, we might get the companies' attention. It may make more sense to complain to Viking to fine tune the >burrs. However, in the long run, I would prefer better quality thread. >Michelle And when the consumer shuts his/her pocketbook--you bet the manufacturers will listen. :-) But it has to be a well-coordinated effort, so that they have reason to notice. Carol, who's about as uncoordinated as a person gets, but that's another story... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:36:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03022 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27635; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA10318 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:49:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10313 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:49:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WSY02ueIU (4263) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.58dd158e.252d9c6c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:49:16 EDT Subject: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com OK, here's a few of mine...not promising anything, so here goes.... Modes de l'Histoire (French is always "chic") Modes of History Classical Couture or Couture Classics Antiquity's Wardrobe/Closset Backward Glances ( Fine clothing from our past) Fashions from Time Anyhow...that was my brainstorm...maybe something will trigger someone else to be more creative than I. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03028 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27860; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA10783 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:55:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10777 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07469 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18109 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006901bf1092$60b7ef80$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:05:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Hope wrote: >> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th >> So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely >> nothing! Cythia wrote: >*laugh* I agree. Since both ladies are in the religious categories, I >would still hesitate to use them for a regular ol' person. I *would* use >it for a masque or something like that. :) I am writing: I wonder if it is something that is pulled from biblical. Both portraits (I think) have to do with Christ. It could be that the artist used mostly the modern dresses, from his time, and biblicized it with the wrap style headwear from what historical representation he had access to. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:47:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03037 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:47:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28129; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11308 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:01:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11303 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:01:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08937 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12885 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004001bf1090$da799780$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:54:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out >> instructions sheets that come with most patterns? > >I think they're fine. > >> The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at >> once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern >> with multiple sheets. > >But this isn't the fault of the instruction sheets now is it? *GGGGGGGGG* >(meant with loving kindness :) ) > >> Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? I would prefer something not so large. Half the size would be better so that it is not neccessary to know mapfolding 101 to get it back into the envelope. I also, like getting some documentation and information with my patterns as 'Period Patterns' does. This makes the letter size booklet sound very appealing. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:50:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03045 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28315; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11510 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:03:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11502 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09531 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22149 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009501bf1093$7f2c2660$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling/questions-sewing machines Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:13:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: The Mulders > >When I had my bernina serviced in OKC I had to write a check. They didn't even >ask for ID!!!!! She said in the 21 years of service they never had a bad check >from a bernina owner!!!! How about that!! :) LOL! Next time I write a check and they ask for identification, I'll tell them, "Don't worry about it. You don't need it because I am a Bernina owner!" (I guess I can't say that, I have a Viking.) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:50:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03049 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28340; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11542 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:03:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11537 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.70.137]) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJ8000790YC1W@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:04:08 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: Name My Business To: h-costume@indra.com, "MargoAnderson" Message-id: <37FBE374.B7DCEAB2@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Margo wrote: > I'm almost done with my business plan, but it lacks one thing: A name > for the business. Since I've asked the list's help with everything else, > of course I'm coming to you all for this, too. All right. I love a good challenge. Here's some first thoughts: A Stitch in Time Past Panache Period Panache Timeless Treasures Designs Through Time Timeline Designs Eternal ________ (Treasures, Designs, Style(s), Panache, etc.) I agree with Carol about the words 'masterpiece' and 'perfect'. They sound a little tough to live up to. My problem with 'regalia' is that it doesn't really apply to costume, but to the sword, scepter, orb etc. But, I guess I'm just picky that way. ;-) Good luck, whatever you come up with. Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:59:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03069 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:59:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28742; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:13:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA12169 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:11:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12157 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11513 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25949 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00be01bf1094$98218100$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:21:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >> >>-Poster: Margo Anderson > > "Shoot Yourself In the Foot Enterprises". >> > >Catchy name. Twisted, shows ingenuity and ambition; with just a touch of >insanity. I like it. :-) > >Lonna Sounds more like describing wine. Rare year. Fruity, yet woodsy undertones. No bite with just a touch of smoothness. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 02:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08063 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29079; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13230 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:23:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13224 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14240 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01223 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00e501bf1096$323f20c0$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: sewing machines Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:33:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > I did not address Viking's machines only. I meant everyone >here whose machine acts this way with the less expensive threads. And yes, >I think that if we and SCA-Garb and some of the reenactment groups began an >extensive write-in campaign, and boycott of the offending thread, we might >get the companies' attention. What is offending to one machine, may not be to another. This may not be a fair thing to do. It may be that the machines have preferences that are different for each brand. If we all boycotted which threads were offensive to the specific brand of machine we have, they would all be sunk. It depends on the age of the thread too. The length of time in the store or in our sewing rooms isn't the fault of the thread companies. Like guns, you have to buy the ammo that works well for your particular gun. It isn't the fault of the ammunition maker if it doesn't work well in every gun. If this is something that is a problem with Vikings only, then I can see going somewhere with this. I can see going somewhere with this too, if a particular brand is offensive to every machine. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 02:10:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09117 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:10:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29189; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13340 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:24:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13335 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14502 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-185.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.185]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01794 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00ee01bf1096$5f4290c0$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:34:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >Backward Glances >( Fine clothing from our past) >Charles I like that one. It has a ring to it. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 04:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32034 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06948; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18806 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:52:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18797 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGUMRU40K00044AZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:57:04 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGUMRPQUNY0043MW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:56:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:49:15 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:49:01 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:48:59 +1100 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:48:58 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it...AND Raglan.... In-reply-to: <199910062118.PAA08802@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <641E7517855@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Thanks Hope, > I've been looking for another example of the strange "linen band > wrap" hat that is worn by the Magdalen in Rogier van der Weyden's > painting. I finally found it. It's another painting by Rogier, this > time worn by an attendant of Mary's. You can see it at: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th So we have two hats of this type. > What does that prove? Absolutely nothing! Well, it proves that > Rogier used this type of hat in two paintings, but it prooves > nothing about whether this was a figment of his imagination, a > weird one-only hat worn by someone he once saw, or something else. > I don't know, but thought you might like to see it. The dress is also similar to the one worn in the other painting - the "raglan" seam is there (this time visible from the back, and it looks (to me) like it could be a short sleeve rather than a wide shoulder- strap this time..... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 05:36:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA32106 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08435; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:38:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22214 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:36:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22207 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGUO5TO0Q8002IB4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:42:11 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGUO5KE6LI0037WB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:36:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:28:43 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:28:29 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:25:59 +1100 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:25:59 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business In-reply-to: <199910062353.RAA15445@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <6428FBA1ABC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > How about..... > Measures of Time > Historic Patterns and Accessories *This* one gets my vote... Though I'd say the "One Tough Costumer" name could be kept in resrerve, perhaps for a "special" collection of more detailed/complicated patterns in the future or something....? Whatever name you pick, I hope it all goes well. Good luck getting the funding sorted. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 05:59:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA32124 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09319; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA23924 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:59:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23919 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGUOYGZO280047N7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:04:52 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGUOW9LSK4003M1X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:57:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:50:11 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:49:55 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:40:58 +1100 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:40:58 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance In-reply-to: <199910070302.VAA13013@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <642EB356917@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 I suspect this is one where you won't be able to please *everyone* My view is just the opposite to Joan's > Another thing I personally dislike is having someone else > determine the seam allowance for me and include it in the pattern, > since I hardly ever start with a 5/8" seam allowance. "Show me the > stitching line!" and let me determine how much seam allowance to > use. I am accustomed to heavy paper patterns with no seam > allowance and notches INTO the paper to use as match up marks. > Putting the notches on the edge of the seam allowance means that > their accuracy is compromised when I try to bring them back to the > stitch line before I cut my stiff paper copy without a seam > allowance. I actively avoid patterns that don't include seam allowance. I like to be able to cut something out and match up the edges of the fabric knowing that (in theory at least) the seam allowance is the same on both pieces and I don't have to spend extra time thinking about how much seam allowance to allow when cutting out each piece so they'll match up when I start sewing. Sometimes, I *do* use a different seam allowance in certain situations, but it's usually a larger one, so cutting further from the edge of the pattern piece isn't a problem.... On the other hand, Margo, If you *do* go with the no-seam- allowance option, I'd probably buy the patterns anyway on the grounds that any good pattern is better than no pattern at all for *most* of the stuff I'm interested in making.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 06:19:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32160 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10291; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA26870 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:34:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26864 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.51] (ip51.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.51]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA22920 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910071129.HAA22920@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: H-COST: Machine origins: Singer/Sears Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:39:40 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais >Deborah Pulliam wrote: >> >> -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) >> >> <> Maybe I should treat mine with more respect.>> >> >> The ancient Kenmores are mostly ancient Singers. Sears didn't do any of >> their own manufacturing of anything; all appliances, etc. were made for >> them by other manufacturers. At various times, the sewing machines were >> made by Singer and White, and probably others. Carolyn Richardson wrote: >Actually, Singer *never* made badged machines. But White, National and >a ton of others did, and many of them made "clones" of Singer machines. >And I mean down to the parts being interchangeable. My mother-in-law >has a clone of the later Singer 115 models made in Japan. In my Sewing Machine Blue Book, the guide for values for used machines for us sewing machine dealers, it says in the Singer pages, "** after a model number indicates Singer machines which are sold by Sears. A Sears model number is on the instruction book and the Singer number is on the ID plate. If known, the Sears model number is listed, however, all model numbers marked '**' are sold by Sears." Most of the models made by Singer and sold by Sears were made between 1985 - 1989 and from 1990 - 1993. The earliest Kenmore not produced in the US was made in Japan in 1949. There was one model Mfd by Chrysler from 1960 - 1965, and has a salvage value of $1... National, by the way, is listed as one of the many nameplates produced in China, Japan, Korea and Thailand. >As long as they're solid metal, it doesn't really matter who made them - >they'll sew thru darn near anything. As long as the parts were quality made when they were produced. Some of the bottom line machines that are all metal produced in Brazil and Malaysia are a bearcat to get to sew properly, and impossible to get to sew really well. Even bottom of the line machines from White, etc. Look at the country of manufacture for a guideline when buying a low level machine. Lisee (who seems to attract all the old homeless machines in her vicinity) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 06:29:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32171 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:29:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10819; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA27661 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:44:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27648 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.51] (ip51.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.51]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA24430 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910071139.HAA24430@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:49:34 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais > "Patterns from the Past...Without the Pain!" :-) Awfully close to Past Patterns, an existing company. > A Stitch in Time an existing clothing merchant > Timeless Treasures an existing merchant > Backward Glances > ( Fine clothing from our past) ooh - this one is nice! In any case, stating the patterns are designed by "One Tough Costumer" would be a nice catchphrase. As a merchant of patterns, I would ask that the pattern number and title be along the top edge of the pattern, so displaying them in a rack is possible. I like the booklet form on instructions, like Stretch and Sew. And please don't make the cover low contrast (black on purple) so those of us who need to scan the pattern to advertise it have a chance to use your own artwork. And when you're ready to wholesale, I'm ready to buy in quantity! And selling them in Ziploc type bags is good too! Paper pattern jackets rip when they are moved around, and if people remove the patterns to look at the instructions. Lisee www.sewingcentral.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 07:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32245 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13734; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02698 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:33:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02690 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11ZCjk-0003Gt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:33:32 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:30:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance In-Reply-To: <642EB356917@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199910070302.VAA13013@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:40 AM 10/07/1999 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: teddy1 > >I suspect this is one where you won't be able to please *everyone* > >My view is just the opposite to Joan's >I actively avoid patterns that don't include seam allowance. I tend to vote with Teddy on this aspect. And do as she does: >Sometimes, I *do* use a different seam allowance in certain >situations, but it's usually a larger one, so cutting further from the >edge of the pattern piece isn't a problem.... >Teddy And like Teddy--if your patterns are solid, people WILL buy them regardless of these small quibbles, so suit yourself, Margo, and don't let our thoughts make you crazy/[ier] than trying to start up the new business already likely is. :-) Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:05:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32265 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:05:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17336; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA08582 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:20:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08576 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Thu Oct 7 06:20:05 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:20:05 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines/Y2k X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.50 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" Following up on this discussion... I recently purchased a used Janome 8000. It's a discontinued high-end model from about 5 years ago, so it's a good step up for me (I'm bowled over by all the fancy stitches and the embroidery capabilities). Buing a used machine ended up being a good compromise between a price I could afford and the high-end features I wanted. I do wonder, however, whether my "new" machine will survive the Y2k problem. I wrote to Janome and haven't heard back from them. I understand that the machine did come with a 25 year parts warranty, but I don't know if I can use this as the second owner. The store I bought it from does give me a 3 month guarantee for the machine--however, that barely puts me into 2000 (and I understand that some problems may be delayed by a few months). Any ideas on this one? Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:19:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32271 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18349; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10957 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:34:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10944 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24175 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets In-Reply-To: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley I think the fold-out form isn't a bad idea, because it gives you an overview of what's coming up next, step-wise. I tend to read the instructions through before cutting anything, and having to flip the pages of a booklet (or put something on the booklet to hold the pages open) might be a nuisance. Cheers, Mara On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out > instructions sheets that come with most patterns? > > The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at > once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern > with multiple sheets. > > Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:45:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32304 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20386; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14959 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:59:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14954 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:59:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kwhykelly@aol.com Received: from Kwhykelly@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HCBa14300 (3975) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3a6e63e0.252e0137@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:59:19 EDT Subject: H-COST: St. Louis Shirt To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com Hi, I sort of got roped into teaching a class this weekend. I thought that doing the St. Louis shirt would be easy, as I have made them before and it's construction would be fairly painless for me and the class. My construction portion of the class is under control, but I am hoping you all could help me with the more detailed documenting of the this shirt or shirts of this time period. I have the _Cut My Cote_ and while I will be using it for my primary source, I am hoping to get other sources for further detail and accuracy. Some things that I would like to be able to answer if it is brought up: So, what type of stitches were used at that time? Running stitch? How were the hem and sleeves finished, rolled hem? I am assuming from the picture that the neck line was bound in some sort of tape or cloth, but what? Wool, more linen, or didn't I read in one of these posts that silk was used sometimes? Also, I was wondering if anyone knew of any pictures of people wearing them? I was looking in my copy of Piponnier's _Dress in the Middle Ages_ but did not see anything. Any online sources that I can download? Many thanks Kristi Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32330 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20558; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:01:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15402 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:01:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15394; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910071401.IAA15394@net.indra.com> From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: when to buy good thread Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Carol said> So maybe the makers of thread that won't work in our machines need to hear a write in letter campaign from us each saying that they're losing a lot of money because we can't/won't buy their product as long as it costs us extra time/money/repair bills/frustration. Why waste the time? Vote w/ your purse. Buy the good stuff: maxilock, gutermann, molnicke & others. You wont have to deal w/ pilling, weak threads, lumpy threads & breakage nearly as much. While the viking requires it, even my 1961 kevlar stitching Kenmore likes good stuff better. The difference in cost is trivial. I also clean the machines & change needles a the start of every project. Your good fabric & good design deserve a sharp needle, nice thread & a properly oiled machine. Less frustration & more time saved in the long run. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32338 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:54:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21438; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16807 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:09:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16799 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-13.s13.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.13]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA11935 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007901bf10cd$d67b2d00$0d3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199910070302.VAA13013@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business name Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:11:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" My entry... Seams Antique Patterns Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 09:04:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32353 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22539; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18821 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:19:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18807 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:19:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6IXCZEZZJ_ (4369) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <63cb0214.252e05da@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:19:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com If you're focus is Elizabethan you could do the Shakespearean thing and have: As you Like It Patterns Romeo & Juliet Patterns Measure for Measure Patterns,etc. Just don't do Much ado About Nothing Patterns...;-) Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 09:23:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32361 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:23:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25381; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22582 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22572 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:37:30 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21995 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19194 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:28 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: prints in private collections Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Speaking of art work in private collections that will never be seen in books, here is a merchant that has the most beautiful prints and engravings I have seen in a while. He took great care to display them very well on ebay. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=martin2001 I suggest those of you interested please go and collect the images with text to catalog them for your own biblio's. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 09:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32426 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28574; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27912 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:01:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27898 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p14.directcon.net [206.170.184.63]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19656 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:59:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:59:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199910071459.HAA19656@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson While I personally prefer patterns with no seam allowances, the overwhelming preference, at least in the US, is for patterns that have the seam allowances included. Even Burda gave up and started including them a few years ago. I know when I was working in a fabric store it was like pulling teeth to get people to use Burda because they would have to add them. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:09:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32445 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02495; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03443 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:24:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03429 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 7 Oct 99 10:15:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <013501bf10d6$519617e0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: mystery portrait Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:12:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" >The photographic acknowledgements do not list this image. When looking in >an index, how would I locate this portrait (no artist, no subject, no >location)? Is there a listing under Unknown? I have looked in Carol >Jackson's collection online (in the unknown section)--are there others I >should try? > >Melanie > I have not ever looked in indexes for portraits so I am unsure as to how to look for this piece. I would think that there would be either an unknown sitter or unknown artist section. Good Luck! Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:10:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32451 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02646; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03590 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:24:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03582 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA06568; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCBBC2.181CD983@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:26:59 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business References: <199910062037.NAA09001@apollo.directcon.net> <37FBD09D.63C10987@mail.brightok.net> <37FBE101.CEA5A9A8@mail.brightok.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > How about..... > Measures of Time > Historic Patterns and Accessories > Oh yeah. This is good. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32461 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:25:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05158; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07293 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07284 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA07217; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCBF32.D9F0153B@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:41:38 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it References: <006901bf1092$60b7ef80$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th > >> So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely > >> nothing! > I wonder if it is something that is pulled from biblical. Both portraits > (I think) have to do with Christ. It could be that the artist used mostly > the modern dresses, from his time, and biblicized it with the wrap style > headwear from what historical representation he had access to. Yup, that's it. Allegorical. Don't know if Rogier had historical representation from another company for those head dresses but turbans were certainly popular for representing middle eastern persons. And in some weird way, this is sort of a turban. Well it's wrapped anyway. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32467 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05922; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08882 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:45:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08862 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA07430; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCC09F.984BEA54@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:47:43 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it...AND Raglan.... References: <641E7517855@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th > > The dress is also similar to the one worn in the other painting - the > "raglan" seam is there (this time visible from the back, and it looks > (to me) like it could be a short sleeve rather than a wide shoulder- > strap this time..... And notice, no waist seam. And I love the detail of the see-through pre-partlet fichu type thing that is pinned into a point center back. It also looks to me like there are two side back seams that are only sewn to mid thigh. Showing off the underdress. This is a *very* interesting painting. Thanks! -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:04:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32548 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11611; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17934 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:18:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17924 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-94.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJ800KHJQKLQ6@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:17:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:16:15 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37FCC74F.8C137F31@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910070614.AAA07091@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" > >...I'd be interested in seeing your documentation, my lady. I've seen >some OK stuff, but I'm mostly running on feelings down here, and am >surrounded by people who seem to think that the cotehardie was a tight >version of the "Greenland Gown" (I like that name, as it strongly >insinuates that it was worn in Greenland, as opposed to, say, France), Unfortunately it's NOT the only gown worn in Greenland, even in the Middle Ages. It's only one of many. >unless perhaps they wear it because it's easier to fit their more >substantial curves into. I've worked out a pattern that fits me >perfectly and gives just the right silhouette, and the lady Elizabeth >quoted is right, it is possible and quite easy actually to work out. >You just have to give up your attachment to straight lines: the only >straight lines in my pattern are in the skirt... Gee, the only straight lines in the original are in the godets in the front and back skirts, the entire front and back pieces upto the armholes, the side pieces (although the wedge to the waist, and the strips above them are different straight lines), oh and the sleaves. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:08:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32552 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:08:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12437; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19238 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19232 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:28 -0600 (MDT) From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Received: from JPMcTeer@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WONa11027 (4464) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5f69c236.252e22dd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:22:53 EDT Subject: H-COST: Sari cotton strips To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com My friend from India who wears saris all the time sews a cotton strip to the part that tucks in at the waistband so that it stays tucked in. The cotton is not as slippery as the silk, or especially polyester. The strip also lengthens the skirt portion so that taller people can wear the ones meant for use by the (often shorter) people of India, by not losing any length of the original fabric as turnover at the waist. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:17:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32580 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13646; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21285 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21268 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhjxq27635 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:34:09 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:36:39 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Naming My Business Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00ae01bf1068$798a1940$0200a8c0@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > How about "Costumes by Margo", or "Fantastic Frocks"? > "Historically Yours, by Margo" or just "Historically Yours" Just a note: Historically Yours is the name of an existing pattern and book merchant. They are the ones who own the rights to Period Patterns. --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32606 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:23:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14589; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22858 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:38:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22845 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910071638.KAA22845@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 734 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 16:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p151.204.ic.net) (206.84.204.151) by unknown with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 16:38:05 -0000 From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:38:24 -0400 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" > >>Backward Glances >>( Fine clothing from our past) > I like that one. It has a ring to it. >Michelle Ooooh. That one has my vote, too! Graceful and elegant. --another Michelle ================================================================================ Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb@ic.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world. " -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ================================================================================ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32643 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15294; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24057 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:42:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24038 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:42:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA09245 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:30:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press ches@io.com wrote: > -Poster: ches@io.com > > Speaking of art work in private collections that will never be seen in > books, here is a merchant that has the most beautiful prints and > engravings I have seen in a while. He took great care to display them very > well on ebay. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=martin2001 > > I suggest those of you interested please go and collect the images with > text to catalog them for your own biblio's. I guess I shouldn't mention that doing this without the seller's permission would be a copyright violation? The modern scans or photos of the old images are the property of the seller, and so are the descriptions the seller wrote. Furthermore, ebay is making increasingly frequent statements about how other people do not have the right to use their sellers' data--I think another statement about this was recently included in the ebay user agreement. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 12:29:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00326 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:29:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23698; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06982 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:42:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06962 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:42:41 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VWAKg1pk_ (4467) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.847852df.252e356f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:42:07 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/6/1999 1:32:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out instructions sheets that come with most patterns? The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern with multiple sheets. >> Don't mind them, as they can be stuck under the corner foot of my sewing machine and held in place to be referred to easily. I think they must be popular because the printing is cheaper. As long as the instructions are in a good, clear, order, with some description of any really unusual techniques, then I"m happy. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "See! How she leans her cheek upon her hand, O! That I were a glove upon that hand, That I might touch that cheek." Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 12:34:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00332 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:34:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24742; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08891 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:48:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08872 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11329 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:53:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:53:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dyeing quesion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> I have a piece of fabric that I got at a thrift store cheap which I have been intending to use on my first attempt at Tudor garb. I have, however, decided that the color is inappropriate, and furthermore, I don't like it. The fabric itself is a nice, heavy, drapy satin-weave cotton, kelly green on one side and a mottled turquoise/kelly teal-ish color on the other. What I would like to know is what color I should over dye it for something more appropriate, and what kind of dye is reasonably easy to use for someone without a kitchen or washer of her own (ie: living in a dorm). Many thanks in advance for any help or advice Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 12:43:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00396 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26349; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11701 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11690 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.10] (sdts11-159.znet.net [207.167.66.159]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id KAA19618 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:58:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FCBF32.D9F0153B@serv.net> References: <006901bf1092$60b7ef80$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:57:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> >> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th >> >> So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely >> >> nothing! While I realize you folks are being conservative, all I can say is that in just about every case where I've researched an unusual treatment like that, in the late 15th, early 16th c art, where the rest of the costume is true to a period style, I've found similar examples in non-allegorical art. Sometimes they are hard to find, but dismissing it as a turban is unrealistic too. By the 15th c, painters had lots examples of turbans from previous painters... I can't even guess why one would paint a fram filter hat instead... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 12:44:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00400 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26363; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11714 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11683 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.10] (sdts11-159.znet.net [207.167.66.159]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id KAA19608 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FCC09F.984BEA54@serv.net> References: <641E7517855@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:52:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it...AND Raglan.... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th >> >It also looks to me like there are two side back seams that are only sewn >to mid thigh. Showing off the underdress. This is a *very* interesting >painting. Thanks! I've seen that split side opening on some other flemish gowns. I'm pretty sure that some of the lion and unicorn tapestry ladies also have side slits in their overgown. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 12:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00433 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27815; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:09:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15052 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:09:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15020 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:08:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-186.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.186]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA02819 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a801bf10ef$896fd8e0$ba973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <199910071459.HAA19656@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's biz name and seam allowance Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:12:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BF10CE.01965500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BF10CE.01965500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Margo wrote: <=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =005=00.=000=000=00.=002=000=001=004=00.=002=001=000=00"=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 = =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00M=00a=00r=00g=00o=00 = =00w=00r=00o=00t=00e=00:=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00l=00t=00;=00&=00l=00t=00;=00W=00h=00i=00l=00e=00= =00I=00 =00p=00e=00r=00s=00o=00n=00a=00l=00l=00y=00 = =00p=00r=00e=00f=00e=00r=00 =00p=00a=00t=00t=00e=00r=00n=00s=00 = =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00n=00o=00 =00s=00e=00a=00m=00 = =00a=00l=00l=00o=00w=00a=00n=00c=00e=00s=00,=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00o=00v=00e=00r=00w=00h=00e=00l=00m=00i=00n=00g=00 = =00p=00r=00e=00f=00e=00r=00e=00n=00c=00e=00,=00 =00a=00t=00 = =00l=00e=00a=00s=00t=00 =00i=00n=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00U=00S=00,=00 = =00i=00s=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00p=00a=00t=00t=00e=00r=00n=00s=00 = =00t=00h=00a=00t=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 = =00s=00e=00a=00m=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00a=00l=00l=00o=00w=00a=00n=00c=00e=00s=00 = =00i=00n=00c=00l=00u=00d=00e=00d=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00T=00h=00e=00r=00e=00 =00i=00s=00 =00a=00n=00 = =00e=00a=00s=00y=00 =00w=00a=00y=00 =00t=00o=00 = =00s=00a=00t=00i=00s=00f=00y=00 =00b=00o=00t=00h=00 = =00t=00y=00p=00e=00s=00 =00o=00f=00 = =00c=00u=00s=00t=00o=00m=00e=00r=00s=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00S=00i=00m=00p=00l=00y=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00i=00n=00c=00l=00u=00d=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 = =00s=00t=00a=00n=00d=00a=00r=00d=00 =005=00/=008=00"=00 = =00s=00e=00a=00m=00 =00a=00l=00l=00o=00w=00a=00n=00c=00e=00 = =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00a=00 =00s=00o=00l=00d=00 = =00l=00i=00n=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00T=00h=00e=00n=00 = =00i=00n=00c=00l=00u=00d=00e=00 =00a=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00d=00o=00t=00t=00e=00d=00 =00c=00u=00t=00t=00i=00n=00g=00 = =00l=00i=00n=00e=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00n=00o=00 =00s=00e=00a=00m=00 = =00a=00l=00l=00o=00w=00a=00n=00c=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00T=00h=00e=00 =00c=00u=00s=00t=00o=00m=00e=00r=00 = =00c=00h=00o=00o=00s=00e=00s=00 =00t=00o=00 =00u=00s=00e=00 = =00t=00h=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00s=00t=00a=00n=00d=00a=00r=00d=00 =00s=00e=00a=00m=00 = =00a=00l=00l=00o=00w=00a=00n=00c=00e=00 =00o=00r=00 =00m=00a=00k=00e=00 = =00t=00h=00e=00i=00r=00 =00o=00w=00n=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 = =00y=00o=00u=00'=00r=00e=00 =00a=00 =00h=00e=00r=00o=00i=00n=00e=00 = =00f=00o=00r=00 =00m=00a=00k=00i=00n=00g=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00e=00v=00e=00r=00y=00o=00n=00e=00 =00h=00a=00p=00p=00y=00.=00 = =00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00A=00s=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00a=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00,=00 =00I=00 =00c=00a=00s=00t=00 =00m=00y=00 = =00v=00o=00t=00e=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00"=00M=00e=00a=00s=00u=00r=00e=00 = =00o=00f=00 =00T=00i=00m=00e=00"=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 = =00"=00M=00e=00a=00s=00u=00r=00e=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00M=00e=00a=00s=00u=00r=00e=00 = =00P=00a=00t=00t=00e=00r=00n=00s=00"=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00I=00 =00a=00g=00r=00e=00e=00 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=00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00h=00t=00t=00p=00:=00/=00/=00w=00w=00w=00.=00= r=00o=00b=00e=00s=00o=00f=00a=00n=00t=00i=00q=00u=00i=00t=00y=00.=00c=00o= =00m=00"=00>=00w=00w=00w=00.=00r=00o=00b=00e=00s=00o=00f=00a=00n=00t=00i=00= q=00u=00i=00t=00y=00.=00c=00o=00m=00<=00/=00A=00>=00<=00B=00R=00>=00O=00n= =00l=00i=00n=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00s=00t=00o=00r=00e=00 =00c=00o=00m=00i=00n=00g=00 = =00s=00o=00o=00n=00!=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00= <=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BF10CE.01965500-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00506 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01593; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20753 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:32:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20735 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA14264; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCE79D.352FCA62@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:34:06 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it...AND Raglan.... References: <641E7517855@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >It also looks to me like there are two side back seams that are only sewn > >to mid thigh. Showing off the underdress. This is a *very* interesting > >painting. Thanks! > > I've seen that split side opening on some other flemish gowns. I'm pretty > sure that some of the lion and unicorn tapestry ladies also have side slits > in their overgown. But these slits are in the back! I've only seen them in the front before. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00517 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03353; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23296 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:42:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23284 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991007184223.UXSB13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:42:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37FCE97C.9E4196B1@home.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:42:04 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines (was when to buy good thread References: <199910071401.IAA15394@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you put the bobbin back in. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:33:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00523 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04191; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24669 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:47:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24660 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991007184749.UZEC13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:47:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37FCEAC3.4FD93EC0@home.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:47:31 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance References: <199910071459.HAA19656@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > While I personally prefer patterns with no seam allowances, the > overwhelming preference, at least in the US, is for patterns that have > the seam allowances included. Even Burda gave up and started > including them a few years ago. I know when I was working in a fabric > store it was like pulling teeth to get people to use Burda because > they would have to add them. Here's my take on it... if you mark the sewing line and have a seam allowance provided then the customer can choose to use *either*. It's easy enough to just cut on the dotted line if you *don't* like seam allowance... I do both (well, actually I make butcher paper copies of almost *everything*... definitely anything multi-sized!!). When I draft my own I tend to have either very small seam allowances or very large ones depending on how I'm finishing the raw edges. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:00:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00546 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08282; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00618 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:14:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00607 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.110]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16938 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:12:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:12:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199910071912.MAA16938@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I guess I shouldn't mention that doing this without the seller's permission >would be a copyright violation? The modern scans or photos of the old images >are the property of the seller, and so are the descriptions the seller wrote. I agree. I save dagguerotypes from ebay listings all the time, but only for my own personal viewing. Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, does the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:09:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00582 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:09:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09401; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02992 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:24:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02982 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow ([24.5.81.24]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991007192410.REHR23892.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@shadow> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:24:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37FD1D4E.3398@home.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:23:10 -0700 From: Freya Organization: House Wolfholme X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance References: <199910071459.HAA19656@apollo.directcon.net> <37FCEAC3.4FD93EC0@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Freya Kat & Kent wrote: > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > Margo Anderson wrote: > > > > While I personally prefer patterns with no seam allowances, the > > overwhelming preference, at least in the US, is for patterns that have > > the seam allowances included. Even Burda gave up and started > > including them a few years ago. I know when I was working in a fabric > > store it was like pulling teeth to get people to use Burda because > > they would have to add them. > > Here's my take on it... if you mark the sewing line and have a seam > allowance provided then the customer can choose to use *either*. It's > easy enough to just cut on the dotted line if you *don't* like seam > allowance... I do both (well, actually I make butcher paper copies of > almost *everything*... definitely anything multi-sized!!). When I draft > my own I tend to have either very small seam allowances or very large > ones depending on how I'm finishing the raw edges. > > Kat Ditto. What she said. Debbie -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:14:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00605 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10206; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03940 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03920 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.110]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18557 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:27:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:27:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199910071927.MAA18557@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines (was when to buy good thread Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:42 PM 10/07/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so >that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the >machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you >put the bobbin back in. > Some repair technicians claim that this can cause problems by forcing lint particles further into the mechanism. They say you should use one of those nifty little vaccuum cleaners that computer people use. You can also buy a kit of mini attachments for a full size canister vac, too. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:18:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00609 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10973; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05065 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:33:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05051 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.110]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19119 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:32:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:32:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199910071932.MAA19119@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Here's my take on it... if you mark the sewing line and have a seam >allowance provided then the customer can choose to use *either*. the problem is, when you're multi-sizing, it's impossible to give both stitching and cutting lines without them overlapping. Given that most people prefer seam allowance, I'll be going that way and giving tips for removing them if peope want to. I just realized I'm making my self nervous talking about this as if it was a done deal. I'm still writing my business plan, I meet with my potential investor in two weeks, and nothing is confirmed. At the risk of sounding a bit New Age, could everyone please send me positive energy on this venture? I haven't been this nervous, excited, stressed and happy at once since my first child was born. EEK! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00619 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11811; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:38:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06320 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:38:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06298 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:38:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhjyc01087 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:40:56 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:43:25 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Name My Business Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37FBE374.B7DCEAB2@pacbell.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Hello, I just have to throw in my two cents! =) > > -Poster: Dietmar > > All right. I love a good challenge. Here's some first thoughts: > > Past Panache This sounds like she's gone past panache and into gaudy! =) > > Period Panache I like this one... but then, I like the word "panache". > > Timeless Treasures Eh... a little cheesy for my taste... > > Designs Through Time > > Timeline Designs > I like both of these, though I like "Designs Through Time" better. > Eternal ________ (Treasures, Designs, Style(s), Panache, etc.) Eternal Panache! Maybe not... =) > > I agree with Carol about the words 'masterpiece' and 'perfect'. They sound a > little tough to live up to. My problem with 'regalia' is that it doesn't > really apply to costume, but to the sword, scepter, orb etc. But, I guess I'm > just picky that way. ;-) I agree on both counts. "Masterpiece Patterns" makes me think of "Masterpiece Theatre"... > > Good luck, whatever you come up with. Ditto! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:39:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00635 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13986; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:52:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09468 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from speedy.excite.com ([199.172.152.78]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991007195141.KSFA26736.kuku@speedy.excite.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:51:41 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines (was when to buy good thread Message-Id: <939325911.28049.622@excite.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:51:51 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Some repair technicians claim that this can cause problems by forcing lint > particles further into the mechanism. They say you should use one of those > nifty little vaccuum cleaners that computer people use. You can also buy a > kit of mini attachments for a full size canister vac, too. I have one of those attachment kits on order. As soon as it arrives, I intend to take it for a 'test drive'. If anyone is interested in a review, let me know and I'll post how well it works. Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00668 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15688; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:02:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11884 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:02:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11878 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from amber.excite.com ([198.3.99.12]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991007200125.KTRY26736.kuku@amber.excite.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:01:25 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance Message-Id: <939326484.10015.523@excite.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:01:24 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > At the risk of sounding a > bit New Age, could everyone please send me positive energy on this venture? > I haven't been this nervous, excited, stressed and happy at once since my > first child was born. EEK! > > Margo Not new-agey at all! Even us 'old style' folks send good vibes to each other when needed. Now *ahem* to make this somewhat H-Costume, I'll pull out my pointy hat (traditionally decorated with gold tissue and spangles) and my Victorian Magic Stuff outfit . . . *POUF!* There! You have been happily magicked, and can do whatever you set your mind to. Now, go ye forth and conquer! Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00672 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:47:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15833; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:03:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12079 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.10] (sdts10-91.znet.net [207.167.66.91]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id NAA16857 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:02:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FCE79D.352FCA62@serv.net> References: <641E7517855@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:00:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it...AND Raglan.... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> >It also looks to me like there are two side back seams that are only sewn >> >to mid thigh. Showing off the underdress. This is a *very* interesting >> >painting. Thanks! >> >> I've seen that split side opening on some other flemish gowns. I'm pretty >> sure that some of the lion and unicorn tapestry ladies also have side slits >> in their overgown. > >But these slits are in the back! I've only seen them in the front before. They look to be on the side in line with the side seam to me, though the side seam is set slightly towards the back. The other slits I've seen have have also been on the side, though usually straight down from the armpit. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00680 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16015; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12331 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:04:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12310 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991007200352.VXXL13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:03:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37FCFC93.4A7F1627@home.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:03:31 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance References: <199910071932.MAA19119@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > the problem is, when you're multi-sizing, it's impossible to give both > stitching and cutting lines without them overlapping. Given that most > people prefer seam allowance, I'll be going that way and giving tips > for removing them if peope want to. That's fine by me!!! Of course, I'll probably be buying them anyway! It's a pity you can't do color or you could have a different color for each size. > I just realized I'm making my self nervous talking about this as if it > was a done deal. I'm still writing my business plan, I meet with my > potential investor in two weeks, and nothing is confirmed. At the > risk of sounding a bit New Age, could everyone please send me positive > energy on this venture? I haven't been this nervous, excited, stressed > and happy at once since my first child was born. EEK! Energy on it's way! I think everything will go very, very, very well. Maybe everyone's talking about it like it's a done deal will make it so (we change things through will & intent ). Kat looking forward to seeing patterns by One Tough Costumer _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 15:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00724 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:13:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19936; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18245 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:26:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18226 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:16 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: re: The fall at the bottom of a Sari (was "Sari cotton thing") Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:25:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf1102$12cb66b0$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910071809.MAA15110@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >The strip also lengthens the skirt portion so that taller people can wear the ones meant for use by the (often shorter) people of India, by not losing any length of the original fabric as turnover at the waist. We're talking about many different cotton add-ons. To summarize: 1. JPMcTeer described 2 kinds one added at the waist to lengthen for the tall folk, 2. and the slip-preventer that sounds like it's a facing, also at the waist 3. Kayta described a stiffener that makes the pleats fall correctly (it's not clear whether this is at the waist or hem), 4. Someone else mentioned a "dust ruffle" which sounds like it extends below the hem & touches the floor, 5. I've described (not well) a piece that runs the entire length of the hem giving weight and proper hang to the lighter, floaty saris. It stops as the sari begins to move upward forming the shoulder cover & hanging piece w/ the pallou (the nifty woven design at the end). #2 You wear a petticoat & tuck into that. #4 I just dont believe anyone would add 3-4" of cheap, ugly cotton to the bottom of a nice sari, sorry. #5 This is the way mine was "built" at the sari shop & my S Indian co-workers & friends approve. So, I've just asked Bindumalini (my coworker) her opinion. Some things: the choli is called "blouse" when speaking Canada; choli is the Hindi word. The cloth piece is a "fall" in Canada (lang not country). Younger women often secure the CF pleats to the petticoat with a safety pin on the inside. Older ladies never do. She thought that putting the fall on the top was funny... "Indian women arent that tall!", she said. The slipping theory made her laugh out loud. "What nonsense!" The real purpose of the hidden fall at the hemline is to give the extra weight. Second, she says, if the sari has the beautiful gold weave at the bottom, the loose threads are covered so you wont step on them. To wrap up (pun intended), sounds like there's lots of ways to wear 'em. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 15:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00733 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:14:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20183; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18641 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:28:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18624 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA18796; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD02DD.A20D83FC@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:30:22 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: St. Louis Shirt References: <0.3a6e63e0.252e0137@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > So, what type of stitches were used at that time? Running stitch? Yes, and back stitch. And a few others. Take a look at the Museum of London's _Textiles and Clothing 1150-1450_. There is stuff on construction techniques in there, including sleeve finishes. The St. Louis shirt is the only one of it's kind in existence that I know of. I am of the impression that it is made entirely from linen, including the fabric used to bind the neck. > Any online sources that I can download? Hmmm, not that I know of. Not primary sources anyway. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 15:18:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00742 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:18:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20856; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19579 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:31:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19570 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA18995; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD03B0.12064E15@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:33:53 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb Subject: H-COST: Phoenix Textiles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Well, I ordered 10 yards of black and 5 yards or brown velveteen from them. Some of you expressed a desire to know the quality. I'm pleased. It isn't that luscious Empress velveteen but then it was $3 per yard too. A long yard. 39 inches so I got almost 11 yards of the black. It's cotton, as nice as anything available at JoAnn's (except Empress velveteen) and totally worth it. I am quite pleased, it will make nice pants for work and a circle skirt I've been dreaming of. So, good velveteen, 16.25 yards of it, for $55 including shipping. I'm a satisfied customer. Cynthia / Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:24:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00834 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00477; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:38:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05303 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:35:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05292 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ENCXYEC6; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:35:09 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Beginning sewing books recommendations Message-ID: <19991007.131343.4783.6.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:35:09 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Thanks everyone for your suggestions! 8) Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:25:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00838 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:25:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00698; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06434 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06419 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:39:41 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09871 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:39:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13794 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:39:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:39:36 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections In-Reply-To: <199910071912.MAA16938@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com those kind of rights will always belong to the person that made or took the picture. There are some real sharp folks on this list that can tell you the complete scoop on that though. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:12:46 -0700 > From: Margo Anderson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > > >I guess I shouldn't mention that doing this without the seller's permission > >would be a copyright violation? The modern scans or photos of the old images > >are the property of the seller, and so are the descriptions the seller wrote. > > I agree. I save dagguerotypes from ebay listings all the time, but only for > my own personal viewing. > > Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's > owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. > If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, does > the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:46:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00864 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03502; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11135 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:59:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11120 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.96] (ell0737.acadia.net [205.217.211.89]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22709 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:07:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: copyrights Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Probably. Reproduction rights usually -- not always -- go with the sale (major exception is when the person selling the work created it. In other words, when you buy an original painting or work of art from the artist, you normally don't automatically get the reproduction rights.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:59:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00875 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05256; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14331 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:13:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14320 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:13:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NECUdzpP_ (4246) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c3194efa.252e74bc@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:12:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Phoenix Textiles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/7/99 1:40:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << So, good velveteen, 16.25 yards of it, for $55 including shipping. I'm a satisfied customer. Cynthia / Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir >> Hi, I'm new to this list. Sounds like a great deal to me. Could I get the scoop on how to order from Phoenix? Thanks, Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 17:19:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00922 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07760; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19065 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:32:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19060 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA23784; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD200E.2D50BC8@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:34:55 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Phoenix Textiles References: <0.c3194efa.252e74bc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I'm new to this list. Sounds like a great deal to me. Could I get the scoop > on how to order from Phoenix? http://www.phoenixtextiles.com :) Welcome! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 18:14:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00985 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15076; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00920 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:27:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00911 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ENC6CV2G; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:26:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets Message-ID: <19990720.221634.5231.3.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-7,15-22 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:26:50 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Hmmm.....I seem to be in a minority so far. The smaller size sheets would indeed store better, but I like to pin the bigger ones to the low-mounted 6'x4' bulletin board on the wall behind my machine. Then I can see it as I sew and it's easier to look ahead to what's coming. That's also where I pin the parts of what I'm working on (trims, extra needles, reference photos, two pins in a line to set my ruler on, etc., etc.) so I have them right at hand. If it weren't for pressing, I'd never have to get up, and with my fibromyalgia, that's a blessing! It's not exactly a bulletin board -- made it by making a braced frame of 1"x3"s, covering that with cardboard and covering that with fabric jes' fer pretty. It folds in the middle, should I ever decide to take it down to store in the closet. So, now you know my opinion! Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 19:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01054 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:03:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20137; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08945 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:16:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08936 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.137]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17827 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:15:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:15:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199910080015.RAA17827@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:39 PM 10/07/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >those kind of rights will always belong to the person that made or took >the picture. Yes, but I'm talking about photos taken by people who have been dead for a hundred years. It's a horribly confusing grey area, in which it's generally assumed that the owner of the actual photograph owns the rights...but what if there were originally multiple copies, that are now owned by multiple people....ACK! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 19:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01072 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:17:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22143; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10952 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:30:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10945 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA04636 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:00:20 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01476; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:07:29 +0930 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:07:22 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: St. Louis Shirt In-Reply-To: <0.3a6e63e0.252e0137@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 Kwhykelly@aol.com wrote: > > I have the _Cut My Cote_ and while I will be using it for my primary source, > I am hoping to get other sources for further detail and accuracy. > I believe this shirt is also described in 'Evolution of Fashion' by Naomi Tarrant (I think that's the right title). > Some things that I would like to be able to answer if it is brought up: > > So, what type of stitches were used at that time? Running stitch? How were > the hem and sleeves finished, rolled hem? I am assuming from the picture > that the neck line was bound in some sort of tape or cloth, but what? Wool, > more linen, or didn't I read in one of these posts that silk was used > sometimes? > > Also, I was wondering if anyone knew of any pictures of people wearing them? > I was looking in my copy of Piponnier's _Dress in the Middle Ages_ but did > not see anything. Any online sources that I can download? > I don't know if you'll have much luck finding pictures of something exactly like that because the artwork of that time doesn't get into seam details. Isn't it a 13th century shirt? Try looking for pictures from the Windmill Psalter or early calendars or Books of Hours. You might be able to find someone going about in their shirt in the marginal illustrations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 19:20:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01078 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22589; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11487 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:33:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11476 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion - 63.20.241.4 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:33:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bf1125$893b72e0$04f1143f@pavilion> From: "gail_middleton" To: References: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> <37FBE374.B7DCEAB2@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Name My Business Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:59:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "gail_middleton" There is a quilting website named "Paper Panache" which is selling paper-piecing patterns. Perhaps it would be good to avoid a name that sounds too much like that. Gail M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dietmar To: ; MargoAnderson Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 7:04 PM Subject: H-COST: Re: Name My Business > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings, > > Margo wrote: > > > I'm almost done with my business plan, but it lacks one thing: A name > > for the business. Since I've asked the list's help with everything else, > > of course I'm coming to you all for this, too. > > All right. I love a good challenge. Here's some first thoughts: > > A Stitch in Time > > Past Panache > > Period Panache > > Timeless Treasures > > Designs Through Time > > Timeline Designs > > Eternal ________ (Treasures, Designs, Style(s), Panache, etc.) > > I agree with Carol about the words 'masterpiece' and 'perfect'. They sound a > little tough to live up to. My problem with 'regalia' is that it doesn't > really apply to costume, but to the sword, scepter, orb etc. But, I guess I'm > just picky that way. ;-) > > Good luck, whatever you come up with. > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 19:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01118 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26880; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:04:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15402 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:03:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15394 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k556.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.156]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA17465 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD424F.5BE1@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:01:03 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Sari silk References: <000001bf101f$b07ce930$6b037a86@phoenix.com> <37FC1B19.D72C1C40@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Carolyn Richardson wrote: > the only sari's I own with the cotton facing tend to be very light > weight polyester chiffons. I call the cotton the "dust ruffle" although > I don't know what the Indian's call it. > If anyone's keeping score, a friend sent me several used saris in a nice weight, from London. They all have the cotton hem lining. (I saw a similar lining on a vintage dress -- possibly Victorian -- that I assume fulfilled the same function: keeping the hem clean) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:25:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01221 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:25:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00160; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20453 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:38:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20447 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-14.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.120]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10208 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD4CC1.A1DABD31@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:45:50 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves References: <37F57B4D.11E65C53@inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby I too have seen several paintings and drawings where this style of dress was ment to stand alone, w/o an overdress. The brocaded sleeve is pinned on for several reasons. 1. bcz brocade was too expesive to make a whole dress out of but sleeves could be exchanged between may dresses.2. pins such as the gold or possibly brass pin in the magdalen painting were fluanted as a sign of wealth as were the sleeves. The world of the Medieval Housebook shows many period drawings in this basic style. Jean Diana H wrote: > -Poster: Diana H > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > > > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > > > > > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, > > over > > > >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the > > fancy > > > >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). > > > > -- That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads > > me to > > -- believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to > > make > > -- her plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. > > > > > I believe the first set of comments is more accurate. This is a > > > representation of (dare I say it?) a kirtle or underdress. Sorry, > > don't > > > know the Flemish/French term as we have already discussed. The > > sleeves > > > were pinned on to a short sleeved underdress, but would have shown > > under > > > her overdress - houppelande, etc. > > > > That was my assumption for a long time, no doubt because I read that > > explanation somewhere years ago. But after spending a lot of time > > studying > > 15th-century Flemish dress last year, I've been rethinking that idea. > > There's no doubt that the short-sleeved dress is an underdress, but > > once I > > started looking, I didn't see any pictures that jumped out at me as > > being > > examples of fancy false sleeves showing out from under the large > > sleeves > > of an overdress. In fact, most of the overdresses I saw > > contemporaneous > > with these short-sleeved underdresses had narrow sleeves, not wide > > ones > > that would show off a fancy undersleeve. > > > > That got me wondering whether the short-sleeved underdresses were > > developed specifically to be worn under the (relatively new) > > narrow-sleeved overdresses -- maybe to reduce warmth and bulk on the > > arm. > > Diana here..... > > While I normally know more about Italian than anything, I found this > style to be particularly interesting and so I did some searching and > here is what I found: > > This Flemish style of chemise, short-sleeved overdress, then pinned-on > sleeve is shown in a number of paintings--just as is. I have not > encountered a style of overdress where these sleeves show through. That > doesn't mean they didn't do it, but I think the typical style of this > gown was just as you see in that picture of the Magdalen. > > I have a photocopy that I got from a library book which unfortunately > has no particular painter credited but which does show three ladies > maids in various states of this dress. One is reaching into some wash > water and is wearing a white chemise with sleeves that end between her > elbow and wrist. Her overdress is a mottled yellow and brown (time-worn > paint maybe?) and on her right arm she is wearing one oversleeve in > blue. The lady next to her has a rose-colored overgown which is lined > in gray and the skirt guarding is also gray. She has an underskirt of > green and a slightly different green for her oversleeves which are both > being worn. The third lady is wearing what appears to be an overdress > of green which is lined in white where the neckline is high and > everything matches. Her dress is flipped up and she is wearing a white > dress underneath which has a band of grey at the bottom which appears to > be about halfway up her lower leg. > > I hope that wasn't too confusing. I believe that the purpose to this > style is that the decorative oversleeves could be of a very expensive > fabric to show off some pretty stuff because you wouldn't have to buy > much of it. Also you would only wear them for fancy occasions or when > you weren't going to get them dirty. > > Also take a look at this painting: > > http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/weyden/p-weyden7.htm > > Check out the lady on the far right and you will see her wearing the > same thing again. You can also see that her dress is lined in a > different colored fabric because it is flipped up. Also note the > obvious seam lines in the bodice and the seam line indicating a separate > skirt (i.e. not continuous princess line like a cotehardie). > > HTH, > > Diana :~> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love > shouldn't be one > of them." > --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:36:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01240 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01569; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21774 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:48:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21765 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-14.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.120]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10749 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD4F10.9D674ED2@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:55:46 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns etc References: <199909290800_MC2-86E6-EEE4@compuserve.com> <37F65003.68DE@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Do they have email/ web site? Jean Dawn wrote: > -Poster: Dawn > > Margaret Bolger wrote: > > > > -Poster: Margaret Bolger > > > > Apologies if you are already aware of this, but I thought it might be of > > interest! > > > > At my 'Antique Costume & Textiles Fair' last week, Lindy Pickard and Dave > > Rushworth were selling a whole load of patterns and handbooks - I think > > they have only recently started their business. > > > > Their 45 patterns cover a number of periods : Viking, Medieval, 16thC, > > English Civil War, 18thC, 19thC - and range from trousers, tunics, > > doublets, hose, breeches, frock coats etc in a wide range of sizes. > > > > Their handbooks include : Medieval Women, medieval men, How to make > > Medieval Shoes, 17thC Women, 1798 French Revolutionary Uniform, 1812-15 > > French Infantry Uniform. > > They also sell natural fibre textiles, buttons etc. > > > > Their business is called Petty Chapman and is based in Yorkshire UK. Tele: > > +44 (0) 1484.512968 > > > > If anyone wants more information and their address, please get in touch > > with me. I also have a full list of the available patterns and handbooks. > > > > (I have no connection with them - just passing information along!) > > > > Margaret > > antique costume & textiles > > http://www.artizania.co.uk > Lindy and Dave have been re-enactors in England for a great many years > and are friends of mine they have done a great many periods between them > and also have a business selling cloth, patterns, buttons etc to > re-enactors over here. > the patterns aren't too bad although as with all patterns they are > generic and will not necessarily fit without altering to your own shape > > dawn > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:41:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01246 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:41:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02126; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22625 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:55:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22618 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-14.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.120]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11154 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD5088.B05A3720@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:02:02 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: missing messages References: <199910040106.SAA18086@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Bite your tongue! After a week away ( I'm an infrequent emailer ) I had 300 msgs! Most from this list. ACK! Jean or Raella Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Is there a problem with the list? After a weekend away, I have many fewer > messages than I would normally expect, and a few of them seem to be > responses to posts I haven't seen. > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01276 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03266; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23763 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:02:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23756 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k556.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.156]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA27387 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:00:09 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Lavolta Press wrote: > > I guess I shouldn't mention that doing this without the seller's permission > would be a copyright violation? The modern scans or photos of the old images > are the property of the seller, and so are the descriptions the seller wrote. > Furthermore, ebay is making increasingly frequent statements about how other > people do not have the right to use their sellers' data--I think another > statement about this was recently included in the ebay user agreement. > I hate to get into this copyright thing, but we've had to deal with it a lot lately at work (day job) on a collection of pre-20th c. images. The scans in question may be the physical property of the owner, but they can't be copyrighted if no "value" has been added to a 2-D image (i.e. not changed in any way. If you get creative with the Mona Lisa, it becomes *your* image!). You can take an "expired" image, make a postcard and publish it. But if you haven't made any changes to the image, you still can't copyright it. (I believe there was a very good website published on H-costume a while back with a good discussion of these very issues) Copyright was meant to protect the person who *created* the work. Or in the case of "work done for hire", eg. for a book or newspaper publisher, the copyright belongs to the publisher. FOR A FINITE AMOUNT OF TIME. Not forever. (This is how Dover stays in business) If the image is 100 years or so old (just to be on the safe side) and you take a photo of it, without adding any value, just a reproduction of the image, you may own the physical photo, but you don't own any right to the image. If you put it up on the web, it would be almost impossible to claim copyright or prove where someone else got it. The one image I looked at the site in question is an etching. Therefore there were multiple copies to start with. Really hard to prove the provenance of your copy. I'm not encouraging wholesale theft, or anything, it's just that copyright issues are only really proved *in court*. You sue, they sue, the lawyers win. This doesn't apply to 3-D objects by the way. If you make a sculpture and someone else takes a photo of it, the photographer owns the copyright to the photo, of course. In my job, we're always concerned with *not* violating anyone's rights. We give our images away for free. (A large famous California library which shall be nameless owns several mid-19th c. sketches. Originals, not prints. We were given slides of 4 of these by the person who took the pictures. The Famous Library has insisted that we not publish their sketches on our website. Even tho' the artist is long dead, we have acceded to their wishes, as "academic" courtesy. I don't think they have a *legal* leg to stand on, but we don't want to make enemies either) As always, make sure your rear is well-covered. (If it's *really* serious, find a lawyer!) Susan f. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:52:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01282 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03652; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24294 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:06:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24286 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-14.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.120]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11817 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD5323.9B6A66DA@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:13:10 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: recycling, and a couple of questions References: <33f7c6e5.252a896f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Try a good steamer. I've found that mine in the $70 range works well. They are often meant for draperies. Raella Appin1@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > Several topics under one roof here. > > First, best "thrift shop" purchase(s): A fuchsia wool jacket, a taupe skirt > with fuchsia print, fuchsia shoes (in my size), and a silk blouse -- a whole > business ensemble (scattered throughout the shop) for about $50 -- it was > pretty "upscale." > > Yesterday, at a street fair in Baltimore, I picked up some great costume > jewelry and a wonderous dress -- 1920s antique, I think. Completely covered > with blue/silver/gold bugle beads in an Art Deco design (background is blue). > Long sleeves, scoop neck, no fastenings. Absolutely awesome -- I spotted it > across the street and RAN. It was $20. No, it doesn't fit me (yet) but it may > be a Christmas present for a friend, unless I decide to lose enough weight to > fit into it. It requires NO HIPS. My friend who was with me suggested that I > fasten it to the refrigerator to inspire me. > > Now, a couple of questions for the pros out there. > > 1) What iron would you recommend for costuming? I need something that will > handle heavy-duty fabrics, velvets, as well as delicate sheers, do steaming, > and is heavy enough to press down damasks. Any ideas? > > 2) I am also in the market for a new sewing machine. I don't need much > quilting ability or 10 different buttonholes, but once again, something > versatile. The one I looked at seriously was a Viking (at about $1800), but I > really didn't need all the features. I still drooled all over it. > Recommendations? > > Thanks. > Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:20:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01344 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07027; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27139 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:29:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27127 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:29:53 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EXIa19934 (3995) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.aeea9b75.252eb0fb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:29:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: missing messages To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/7/1999 18:56:45 Pacific Daylight Time, jzerby@scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us writes: << Jean or Raella Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Is there a problem with the list? After a weekend away, I have many fewer > messages than I would normally expect, and a few of them seem to be > responses to posts I haven't seen. > >> Jean, the list seems to be repaired, but there was something wrong with it for a day or so. There were no posts at all, save 3-4, and obviously if you just waded through 300, that's quite a difference. It happened to me too, so Margo was just trying to find out if the list admin needed to be notified. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01358 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08301; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27968 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:35:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27955 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-14.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.120]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13345 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD5A05.3BFF9464@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:42:35 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan References: <006701bf0f7b$c3b86960$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Can anyone give me info for getting a hoop skirt/ (As cheap as possible, goes w/o saying ) Thanks Raella _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01370 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:30:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09205; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28916 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:42:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28907 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-2ivei77.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.72.231]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA16245 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991007224529.0071480c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gunstonian@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:45:29 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Laurie L. Kittle" Subject: H-COST: Seminar Announcement - For the Gents (long) In-Reply-To: <37FD5323.9B6A66DA@pcs.k12.mi.us> References: <33f7c6e5.252a896f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Laurie L. Kittle" Gunston Hall Annual Decorative Arts Seminar "An Elegant Sufficiency": Gentlemen's Pursuits 1700-1825 Thursday, November 18, 1999 Gunston Hall Plantation Mason Neck, Virginia, USA Mark Hutter Suitable to His Station: The Gentleman and His Taylor John R. Barden "Innocent and Necessary": Music and Dancing in the Life of Robert Carter of Nomony Hall Susan Borchardt Gunston Hall Plantation, Deputy Director for Collections & Education, "My Mansion House and Seat": George Mason's Gunston Hall Lunch & Tour of Gunston Hall Demonstration Jay Gaynor, A Gentleman's Firearms Mini-Exhibit Paraphernalia to Suit Any Gentleman Patrick Sheary A Clean, Well-Lighted Place for Books Richard C. V. Nicoll Taking Hold of the Reins: The Eighteenth-Century Gentleman and the Horse Registration Fee: $75.00 $60.00 for Members of the Friends of Gunston Hall Plantation Deadline for Registration: November 15, 1999. For additional information contact (703)550-9220. FAX number: (703)550-9480. E-mail:historic@gunstonhall.org. Website: http://gunstonhall.org Speakers John R. Barden is the Reference/Research Services Librarian at the Muse Law Library, University of Richmond. The focus of both his Master's and Ph.D degrees in history was Robert Carter of Nomony Hall. Barden has many strings to his bow, including law and library degrees and the authorship of numerous historical and library publications. Along the way, Barden has worked at Colonial Williamsburg, Tryon Palace, and the North Carolina Division of Archives and History. Jay Gaynor, in his job as Curator of Mechanical Arts at Colonial Williamsburg, is responsible for the implements, tools, and other mechanical objects in the Foundation's collections and interpretive sites. Among the exhibits he has curated was Tools: Working Wood in 18th-Century America, an innovative look at the influence of tools on material culture. Formerly a co-owner of the Jamestown Tool Company, Gaynor also has held positions at the High Point Museum and Ohio Historical Society. Mark Hutter is Tailor for the Clothing Trades at the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. During the nearly twenty years he has spent working in museums and living history programs, Hutter has studied and reproduced 18th-century clothing from collections in the United States and abroad. He has shared his knowledge with the field through lectures as well as first- and third-person interpretations. Richard C. V. Nicoll is Director of the Coach & Livestock Department at Colonial Williamsburg, joining the staff fifteen years ago after spending the previous fifteen years in the carriage and horse trade. An acknowledged expert on the subject of carriages, Nicoll also oversees the operations of the Wheelwright and Harness Shops. Patrick Sheary has been the Associate Curator of the Daughters of the American Revolution Museum for the past four years. His exhibition American Case Furniture, 1680-1840: Selections from the DAR Museum Collection won accolades from both the press and scholars. While obtaining a Master's Degree in Museum Studies from The George Washington University, Sheary catalogued furniture at Colonial Williamsburg as well as worked in the Foundation's Furniture Conservation Laboratory. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:57:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01396 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12301; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02941 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:11:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02921 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991008031125.8599.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.108.229.109] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:11:25 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Valerie Robertson Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines/Y2k To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Valerie Robertson Speaking as a recent Y2K project manager (brought it in under budget and ahead of schedule, not that I'm bragging), sewing machines fall under the category of embedded systems -- IC chips incorporated into a larger system that does something besides computing. A sewing machine is not likely to have a year-dependent date function built into its chips, much like a coffee maker or a VCR. That being said, however, I must offer a caveat: many manufacturers buy generic chips in bulk for their products, and at least some of those chips may have built-in routines that are not used in the product (think of the plot line of "Small Soldiers"). On the other hand, we've already successfully passed through almost all of the "deadly dates" prior to New Year's 2000, including 1 January 1999, 9 April 1999 (99/99 in the Julian date form), 1 July 1999 (beginning of many US state fiscal 2000s), 9 September 1999 (9/9/99) and 1 October 1999 (beginning of US federal fiscal 2000). I would suggest one precaution (it can't hurt) -- keep the machine turned off and unplugged during the actual rollover from 1999 to 2000. Simple check-sum date routines function perfectly well on one side or the other of that particular midnight, but can't make the transition. Taking a 20-minute break to ring in the new year isn't so bad. -Valerie --- Firefly wrote: > > -Poster: " Firefly" > > Following up on this discussion... > > I recently purchased a used Janome 8000. It's a > discontinued high-end model from about 5 years ago, > so it's a good step up for me (I'm bowled over by > all the fancy stitches and the embroidery > capabilities). Buing a used machine ended up being > a good compromise between a price I could afford and > the high-end features I wanted. > > I do wonder, however, whether my "new" machine will > survive the Y2k problem. I wrote to Janome and > haven't heard back from them. I understand that the > machine did come with a 25 year parts warranty, but > I don't know if I can use this as the second owner. > The store I bought it from does give me a 3 month > guarantee for the machine--however, that barely puts > me into 2000 (and I understand that some problems > may be delayed by a few months). > > Any ideas on this one? > > Mary > --- > Visit my homepage: > http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 22:25:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01439 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:25:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15086; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06445 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:38:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06424 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991008033831.PRGA16965.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:38:31 -0700 Message-ID: <007301bf113e$c914eea0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: , "Scriptoris" Cc: , "sca-garb" Subject: H-COST: applying silver Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:39:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I have a question that is applicable to all of you, in a way, sorta. I have a friend who needs silver metallic flat lace. Unfortunately her only discoveries so far are way to expensive for her needed amount. So she is on a quest for making it out of a large quantity of off white cotton flat lace. I suggested that she weave silver thread into the lace she has, her husband suggested spray painting (some men, they paint everything!), and I also suggested using silver leaf. What are your collective thoughts on this and what kind of spray paint would she use, what kind of thread, what kind of silver leaf adhesive.....what other better ideas do you all have short of having to purchase some of the expensive stuff? Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 22:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01491 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17859; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10715 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:11:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10707 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p24.directcon.net [206.170.184.73]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12794 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:10:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:10:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199910080410.VAA12794@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: applying silver Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >What are your collective thoughts on this and what kind of spray paint would >she use, what kind of thread, what kind of silver leaf adhesive.....what >other better ideas do you all have short of having to purchase some of the >expensive stuff? > The first Renaissance court costume I ever made (can it really be 23 years ago?) had a forepart trimmed with $.05 a yard cotton lace which I spray painted gold. It looked really nice (unlike the rest of the costume). Sort of a matte finish, antique gold look. Most of the gold is rubbed off now, so your friend might want to think about using some sort of clear spray over the metallic. On the other hand, she probably isn't looking for decades long durability! Once I get this !@#$% business plan done, I'm going to take an afternoon to put a "youthful efforts" page on my websight, including this dress. I kept it to teach me humility, but there are a few things on it, like that painted lace idea, that I'm still proud of. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 22:58:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01495 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:58:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17992; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10949 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:12:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10930 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24435 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD6FD4.9781FCE6@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:15:16 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Phoenix Textiles References: <37FD03B0.12064E15@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I much prefer the unsheared corduroy they offer to any velveteen. Velveteens go gray on stage where the unsheared corduroy (also $3) stays a rich, velvet-like color. Found this out while experimenting with tudor hoods and hats for "Man for all Seasons" in the early '80's. I also love cotton velvet but the prices seem to be the same as regular velvet now-a-days. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:02:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01509 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18230; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11484 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:16:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11474 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p24.directcon.net [206.170.184.73]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA13431 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:14:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:14:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199910080414.VAA13431@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: applying silver Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I should probably add that I never tried to wash or dry clean the costume with the spray painted lace. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:09:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01562 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18760; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12242 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:22:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12236 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25882 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD7232.89468347@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:25:22 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt References: <006701bf0f7b$c3b86960$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> <37FD5A05.3BFF9464@pcs.k12.mi.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas For really cheap, you have to make your own. My first one was made from electricians "fish" tape hung on twill tapes with loops over the waist band for adjustments. each hoop was covered in x-wide bias tape, so I could pin to it for positioning, then sew in place. I didn't know of a source for steel tape at the time. Only proble was fastening the ends together. I used shrink tubing, but it's not the best answer. Makes a very sturdy, but non- bendable hoop. Next one was bought from Amazon Vinegar and Pickleing co. and the third from alteryears. I also picked up a bridal petticoat from J.C. Penneys for occasions when a hoop was impossible (plane flights, 1840's dresses, etc. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:24:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01647 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:24:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20056; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14355 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:38:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14333 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-165.radiks.net [206.29.243.167]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA25109 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:36:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991007233029.0071ffc4@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 23:30:29 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: cocoon coat In-Reply-To: <199910052215.QAA14215@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: lilinah@grin.net > >>-Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com >>I am looking for a cocoon coat pattern made by Folkwear. Folkwear has >>discontinued it so it cannot be purchased through them. Does anyone have one >>they wouldn't mind selling or renting? Does anyone know where I might be >>able to get my hands on the pattern for sale from a vendor? > >The Cocoon coat has not been discontinued, as it has never been released by >Folkwear; it is in process of publication and will be released "reeeeel >sooooon now". > >Visit: >http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/drawingboard.html >for updates on the release date of the cocoon coat pattern. > >I, too, am looking forward to being able to buy it. I believe she may be referring to the original pattern put out by Folkwear, the "Poiret Cocoon Coat", which was one of the Metropolitan Museum patterns. The Met patterns are not being reprinted by Lark because of licensing issues with the museum. These also included the Algerian Suit and the Russian Cossack. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:29:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01658 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:29:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20403; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15098 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:43:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15085 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:43:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Kijee@aol.com Received: from Kijee@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6BIV0UPYfm (4366) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.63d00d1a.252ed074@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:43:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kijee@aol.com Good luck on this exiting endeavor! Here's my suggestion: "In a Timely Fashion" Kij Greenwood _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:35:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01667 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:35:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20785; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15751 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:49:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15737 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn22.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.41]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09411 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <003401bf1148$c22538c0$29f0a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <0.63d00d1a.252ed074@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:51:13 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Oooh, that's a good one! Liadain > > -Poster: Kijee@aol.com > > Good luck on this exiting endeavor! Here's my suggestion: > > "In a Timely Fashion" > > Kij Greenwood > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:37:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01675 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:37:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21198; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16008 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:51:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c2smtp.kentlaw.edu (c2smtp.kentlaw.edu [192.148.222.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16003 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <9131FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> X-SMF-Message-ID: 9131FD3701AA3400 X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:49:00 -0500 From: KATHARINE WHISLER To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00102459 Subject: H-COST: Copyrights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.51 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Margo asks: > Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's > owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. > If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, > does the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? It depends! Under the facts as you have given them, probably not. "Copyright" is a funny thing. You can slice the whole copyright to something into infinitely small pieces (the right to adapt into a movie, the right to adapt into a song, the right to adapt into paint-by-number, the right of first publication, the right to print on t-shirts, the right to print on bedlinens, the right of publication in Czech-speaking countries only, the right to translate into Czech, etc., etc.) The owner of the right to publish has given you a tiny part of that right (the right to publish on your website). Because they have given that right to you, they cannot now give it to someone else. So, the subsequent owner of the rights to the image doesn't own the right to give *you* permission (on not) to post on *your* website. That means he or she can't make you take it down. But, in many cases, licenses to publish or reprint have limitations of one kind or another on them. In many cases, a license to post something on a website will be limited in term. So, if you had permission to post for one year, the owner of the image sold it, and the year ended, you would have to get permission to continue posting from the new owner-- who could then refuse permission. And you would be forced to take it down. The situation gets a little strange in the case of a really old, public domain image. Now, there is no copyright for the owner to give you a piece of-- only a right to let you look at and rephotograph or scan or whatever, the image. This is a "real property" right, not an "intellectual property" right. It is as if someone let you in their yard to take a picture of their prize-winning roses. In that situation, only you would own the copyright to the image you posted. If the person let you look at the picture on the understanding that you wouldn't scan it and put it on your website and you did it anyway, you might have a breach of contract, but you would not have violated the copyright. Depending on the details of whatever you agreed, you might have to take it down anyway. But, back to the original question-- assuming that the original owner gave you permission to scan the image, a subsequent owner wouldn't be able to force you to take it down. I hope this is a little clearer, at least in general terms! Unfortunately, the way that these situations work out is highly dependant on the particular facts at hand. --Katharine Whisler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01690 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22893; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17833 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:08:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c2smtp.kentlaw.edu (c2smtp.kentlaw.edu [192.148.222.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17823 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <6235FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> X-SMF-Message-ID: 6235FD3701AA3400 X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:05:00 -0500 From: KATHARINE WHISLER To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00102459 Subject: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.51 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Recently, the man in my life asked me to make him an early (Tang Dynasty, say) costume to wear to an SCA event. After looking at a bunch of art books, I think I have it covered, but there is one thing that still really mystifies me. Apparently, many of these men are wearing what looks like a hat but is actually a black scarf tied over a topknot. According to "5000 Years of Chinese Costumes," the scarf has "ears" or extensions at the corners to make it easier to tie. My problem is that I can't quite figure out how these things should be tied! I think they wrap around with adjacent corners tied in back of the head, and it looks like the other two corners tie on top of the head in front of the topknot, but I'm not quite sure how they wrap around before tying. If anyone knows what I am talking about and has any ideas about this, I'd sure appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks, Katharine Whisler P.S. The other works I have consulted are: Chinese Dress, by Wilson The Treasures of the World: The Emperors of China The Horizon Book of the Arts of China China: A History in Art _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01701 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23549; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:16:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18679 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:16:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18674 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.219] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11ZSNz-0000Ke-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:16:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005143131.00bf0290@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991005143131.00bf0290@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:32:10 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Obscure machine: "Domestic" brand "Gaiety" model In-Reply-To: <37FAA939.D117C56F@enteract.com> References: <199910052215.QAA14215@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Has anyone ever heard of this machine ("Gaiety" is a decal on the >machine, "Domestic" is a metal logo)? It's a dumpster-dive rescuee, and >seems to be stuck - stitch selector on a fancy stitch, roto thingie >won't turn :-( It looks about the same vintage as my Singer 403 or >maybe later - but still all-metal. Anyone out there ever heard of it, >or have any clues on what's wrong with it? One of my machines is a "Damascus Electric". Add this name to the question. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:15:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01707 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24136; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:29:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20346 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:29:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1304.mail.yahoo.com (web1304.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA20339 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:29:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991008053612.9532.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.163.180.177] by web1304.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:36:12 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jonna Hayden > >>Backward Glances > >>( Fine clothing from our past) > Um, I'll give it a shot--although I like the one above, too. Clothing Re: Past Fine Patterns for the Historical Sewer. (I must be hungry. . .) Jonna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01711 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24313; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20550 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:31:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA20541 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910080531.XAA20541@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 7386 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 23:31:42 -0600 Received: from ts26-46.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.160) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 23:31:42 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Books Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:39:44 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I was bad tonight, I let my DH talk me into going to Borders. I made it out of there with only one book, Dangerous Beauty, and the "Shakespeare Cats' calendar. Have you seen this? It is sooooooo cute! The book I got is called 'Bruges and the Renaissance - Memling to Porobus'. Beautiful color pictures! Mostly triptychs. I have already found several short sleeved plain overdresses/cotehardies (?) with beautiful brocade sleeves coming out from under the dress sleeves and not attached at the shoulder. I have not really had that much time to look at the book, I will keep you posted. I guess that it is about time I learned how to us my mother's scanner. I am very ignorant about art, but learn a little more everyday. I am bound and determined to read all these art books I have, after I read all of the costume books. Anyway, what is a triptych? Three panels? It seems to me that they all center around a biblical event, so the center characters could be said to be allegorical, but to either side seems to be regular people (patrons?) praying or portraying a lesser character of the event. Am I close? There are some where there is a herd of people praying! I mean it, upwards of 20 people! Maybe someone out there can enlighten me. There were two other books that I found that someone may be interested in; Northern Renaissance Art - 1350 to 1575 - James Snyder - ISBN 0-8109-1081-0 Lots of pictures, kind of small, not so many in color, but plenty of obscure artists. Focus on Germany. >From Van Eyck to Bruegel - Metropolitan Museum of Art - ISBN 0-8109-6528-3 Just what it says. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01715 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24450; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20632 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:32:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20626 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id WAA17932 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD8274.CDF33186@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:34:44 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Susan Fatemi wrote: > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > I hate to get into this copyright thing, but we've had to > deal with it a lot lately at work (day job) on a collection > of pre-20th c. images. For one thing, the post mentioned also copying the detailed text describing the images; which in the ebay listings I looked at, seemed to have been written by the seller. > > The scans in question may be the physical property of the > owner, but they can't be copyrighted if no "value" has been > added to a 2-D image (i.e. not changed in any way. If you get > creative with the Mona Lisa, it becomes *your* image!). > You can take an "expired" image, make a postcard and publish > it. But if you haven't made any changes to the image, you still > can't copyright it. (I believe there was a very good website published > on > H-costume a while back with a good discussion of these very issues) For another thing . . . in my experience scans of images seldom look exactly like, or as good as, the original. There are a great many changes that can be made, including removing moire patterns (problems caused by rescreening), balancing colors or gray tones, sharpening, redrawing lines, cropping edges, restoring blurred or damaged or dirty areas of an old image, changing or adding backgrounds, moving parts of the picture around; and many other potential changes. Some changes can be made either to the whole image or, by "masking off" (drawing a line closely around) portions of it and only altering those portions. It can easily take a couple of hours to do a relatively simple job of restoring an old image, and probably no two restorers would do it exactly the same way. There's a lot of other stuff you can do too, in terms of special effects (like the "impressionist" filter in my Corel Photopaint). According to the lawyer I consulted, changes to images are copyrightable. (And in fact, there are graphic artists who, if you hire them to work on your scans, want to claim copyright to the changes; so you should explicitly cover ownership of rights in your contracts.) While I'm not saying everybody who posts images on the net has changed or restored them, it's probably impossible for someone who has not seen the original image to tell whether this has been done. Furthermore, I don't know of any part of the copyright law that covers 2-Dness. As far as I know, photos of paintings are as copyrightable as photos of sculptures or buildings or people. If two different photographers take pictures of a painting, each photographer owns the copyright to his/her own picture (though not to the original painting). A scan is essentially a photo. > > > Copyright was meant to protect the person who *created* > the work. Or in the case of "work done for hire", eg. for > a book or newspaper publisher, the copyright belongs to the > publisher. FOR A FINITE AMOUNT OF TIME. Not forever. > (This is how Dover stays in business) Not exactly. Copyright was meant to protect the person who has *done creative work*. Copyright covers derivative works, such as translations, anthologies, and other works created using the original work, as well as the original work itself. This includes derivative works made from works in the public domain. > > If the image is 100 years or so old (just to be on the safe > side) and you take a photo of it, without adding any value, > just a reproduction of the image, you may own the physical > photo, but you don't own any right to the image. Actually, as I understand it, you do own the rights to a photo you have taken yourself, no matter what it is of. Unless of course you have sold or otherwise transferred those rights. In some cases you may need someone else's permission to create/take the photo to begin with, or to publish it. > If you > put it up on the web, it would be almost impossible to > claim copyright or prove where someone else got it. First, I'd recommend that anyone who is at all interested in protecting their copyrights to register them before publishing their materials on the web or anywhere else. Although US law protects works from the time of creation, registration is a big help if there is any legal difficulty later on. Second, I have seen a number of web postings (text and pictures) from several published books. Although I was not the publisher or author of these books, I was easily able to recognize the sources of the postings. Third, the fact that someone might not notice you are violating their copyright does not make such violation any more legal or ethical. > > The one image I looked at the site in question is an > etching. Therefore there were multiple copies to start with. > Really hard to prove the provenance of your copy. Unless it was restored or edited in some way. I've spent many hours (in fact, many months) editing line drawings from printed publications. I can certainly tell the difference between the ones I edited and the originals--otherwise I would not have bothered. > > > I'm not encouraging wholesale theft, or anything, it's > just that copyright issues are only really proved *in court*. > You sue, they sue, the lawyers win. This is true of most legal issues. But it's a good reason to be careful about violating other peoples' copyrights. As I've said before--why not just ask people if it's OK to use their iamges, text, whatever? Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:27:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01731 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24980; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21496 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:41:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21479 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:40:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PVA0i5lYs (4442) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3efe9ccc.252eddc4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:40:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cocoon coat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/7/99 9:39:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, costumrs@radiks.net writes: << I believe she may be referring to the original pattern put out by Folkwear, the "Poiret Cocoon Coat", which was one of the Metropolitan Museum patterns. The Met patterns are not being reprinted by Lark because of licensing issues with the museum. These also included the Algerian Suit and the Russian Cossack. Sandy >> Yes, I am referring to the "Poiret Cocoon Coat". I am sorry to hear that Lark will not be reproducing it. I am still on the hunt. Anybody out there that can help? Hopefully, Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:46:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01784 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:46:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26170; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23580 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:00:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23572 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.224] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11ZT4q-0003rZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:00:24 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005150131.00c17350@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:14:19 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: re: The fall at the bottom of a Sari (was "Sari cotton thing") In-Reply-To: <000001bf1102$12cb66b0$6b037a86@phoenix.com> References: <199910071809.MAA15110@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >3. Kayta described a stiffener that makes the pleats fall correctly (it's >not clear whether this is at the waist or hem), >5. I've described (not well) a piece that runs the entire length of the hem >giving weight and proper hang to the lighter, floaty saris. It stops as the >sari begins to move upward forming the shoulder cover & hanging piece w/ the >pallou (the nifty woven design at the end). Kayta here. The stiffener is like a facing inside the hem portion, not on the palu portion. They sell these, ready to apply, in many colours at sari stores. They like to shelve them rolled up, by colour. BTW, I see palu instead of pallou at the stores I frequent. (That's the fancy bit thrown over the shoulder.) But I see both sari and saree used, depending on the store. >#4 I just don't believe anyone would add 3-4" of cheap, ugly cotton to the >bottom of a nice sari, sorry. Not cheap ugly cotton, carefully colour matched cotton, and it's on the inside. Younger women often >secure the CF pleats to the petticoat with a safety pin on the inside. Older >ladies never do. Some saris come sewn this way. It's a recent thing. Also, you pin the palu to your bra strap on the back side of the shoulder, to prevent slippage. >To wrap up (pun intended), sounds like there's lots of ways to wear 'em. There really are. Look inside the Folkwear pattern which includes the choli and they say they're giving you two of the many ways to drape a sari. (I think that's where I saw it.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:56:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01806 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26888; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:10:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA24440 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:10:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24430 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:10:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id XAA23797 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FD8AF1.3ED48D2@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 23:10:57 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Copyrights References: <9131FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press > Margo asks: > > Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's > > owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. > > If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, > > does the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? > > It depends! Under the facts as you have given them, probably not. > > "Copyright" is a funny thing. You can slice the whole copyright to > something into infinitely small pieces (the right to adapt into a movie, > the right to adapt into a song, the right to adapt into paint-by-number, > the right of first publication, the right to print on t-shirts, the right > to print on bedlinens, the right of publication in Czech-speaking > countries only, the right to translate into Czech, etc., etc.) > > > The owner of the right to publish has given you a tiny part of that right > (the right to publish on your website). Because they have given that > right to you, they cannot now give it to someone else. Actually, you can give someone "nonexclusive" rights to publish. I think this is the legal default, rather than exclusive rights, but it's safer to use the word. So you can tell as many people as you want that they have the "nonexclusive" right to post your picture (or whatever) on their web sites. You can also transfer "one-time" rights. This is common with photos published in magazines. You can sell "one-time rights" for the same photo to as many magazines as you wish. I've seen one-time rights used sometimes with magazine articles and stories. But with articles it is more usual to sell "first serial rights" to one magazine (since this is a guarantee of first publication in that media, you can only do it once) and "second serial rights" to as many other magazines as you wish (there is no such thing as "third serial rights"). You can also, given the right contract negotiation, sell the same book to more than one publisher. This is most common if different editions are possible (and saleable), but one publisher does not want to produce them all. For example one publisher only wants to publish in hardcover format, and the other only wants to publish in softcover. Basically, you want to be very specific about which parts of the copyright you are transferring, transfer only the ones that really _need_ to be transferred to that publisher or person, and reserve the others for your own future use. > So, the subsequent > owner of the rights to the image doesn't own the right to give *you* > permission (on not) to post on *your* website. That means he or she can't > make you take it down. It depends on whether they actually _own_ the rights to the image, or were only permitted by the owner to _use_ the image. For example, suppose you create an image, and you grant someone the nonexclusive right to post it on their web site. In that case, the web site poster has no right to either allow or forbid anyone else to post the image. If asked, they should refer the asker to you, the actual owner of the rights. On the other hand, suppose you sell "all rights" to the image to the person with the web site. In that case, they _are_ now the copyright owner, just as if they had created the image. They can grant or deny all further use of it as they wish. Or, in a more limited transfer, you could sell this person "all rights to post on web sites." In that case they would have control over future web site posts, but you could still publish the image in other media (such as books and magazines). > > But, in many cases, licenses to publish or reprint have limitations of one > kind or another on them. In many cases, a license to post something on a > website will be limited in term. So, if you had permission to post for > one year, the owner of the image sold it, and the year ended, you would > have to get permission to continue posting from the new owner-- who could > then refuse permission. And you would be forced to take it down. Such limitations are a very good idea. For example, if a magazine buys "first serial rights" to your article, you should make sure your contract with them gives these rights back to you if the magazine does not publish the article within a specified period of time. Otherwise, the magazine can control those rights indefinitely (and by extension, your second serial rights, because the first rights were never used) without ever publishing (if they only pay on publication, without ever paying you). Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 01:38:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01847 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29295; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28274 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:52:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28264 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17014 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:00:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA11081 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:00:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:00:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books In-Reply-To: <199910080531.XAA20541@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > The book I got is called 'Bruges and the Renaissance - Memling to Porobus'. Sounds nice. How much is Borders asking for this? > I am very ignorant about art, but learn a little more everyday. I am bound > and determined to read all these art books I have, after I read all of the > costume books. Anyway, what is a triptych? Three panels? It seems to me > that they all center around a biblical event, so the center characters > could be said to be allegorical, but to either side seems to be regular > people (patrons?) praying or portraying a lesser character of the event. > Am I close? Very close. A triptych is a three-panel painting; typically the outer panels are half the size of the main panel, and hinged to it so that they can close over the center panel. Then something decorative -- often another painting -- is put on the backs of the wings, so that when they come together they look nice. A diptych is a two-panel painting, also typically hinged. Most triptychs I've seen have a biblical event or a religious story (e.g. something from a saint's life) in the middle. The subjects of the wings varies. What you describe is common -- patrons would pay to have themselves painted into the paintings, and often that meant on the wings (though sometimes you find the patrons in the center panel, praying amid the sheep and cows at the Nativity or something). Often the wings show only saints, perhaps the patron saints of the patrons, or saints related to the center image, or the namesake saints of a church or religious order that commissioned the painting. I have also seen triptychs in which the wings are other parts of a story -- e.g. scenes from the life of Mary, with the center panel being the Annunciation. I'm sure there are some secular triptychs out there as well, but I can't think of any offhand. I have seen secular diptychs -- two portraits facing each other. More often, though, one panel of the diptych is a Biblical scene (or something like a portrait of Madonna and Child) and the other side is a portrait of the patron, looking adoringly at the Biblical panel. > There are some where there is a herd of people praying! I mean it, upwards > of 20 people! I've seen whole families depicted, or members of a religious order or guild or other organization. If you have questions on specific paintings, feel free to email me. I suspect I have just about every painting in that book already in my own library. (And for those who remember me complaining about my books being boxed from my recent move -- I have a friend coming this weekend to help me unpack them, hurrah!) What I don't have in books, I probably have in slides -- I took over 300 slides of costume details in medieval art while I was in Flanders, mostly in Bruges. Many of them are probably not available in books. I wish I had taken more. Now I'm trying to pick up images of Flemish art that is scattered elsewhere in the world. Spain is full of Flemish art, and all I've done is Madrid... --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 04:29:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30811 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:29:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07268; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05709 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:42:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05703 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.65.125]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991008094315.CKWX21438.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:43:15 +0100 Message-ID: <37FE1E6F.41B3@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:40:15 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Patterns etc References: <199909290800_MC2-86E6-EEE4@compuserve.com> <37F65003.68DE@virgin.net> <37FD4F10.9D674ED2@pcs.k12.mi.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Jean Zerby wrote: > > -Poster: Jean Zerby > > Do they have email/ web site? > > Jean > > Dawn wrote: > > > -Poster: Dawn > > > > Margaret Bolger wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: Margaret Bolger > > > > > > Apologies if you are already aware of this, but I thought it might be of > > > interest! > > > > > > At my 'Antique Costume & Textiles Fair' last week, Lindy Pickard and Dave > > > Rushworth were selling a whole load of patterns and handbooks - I think > > > they have only recently started their business. > > > > > > Their 45 patterns cover a number of periods : Viking, Medieval, 16thC, > > > English Civil War, 18thC, 19thC - and range from trousers, tunics, > > > doublets, hose, breeches, frock coats etc in a wide range of sizes. > > > > > > Their handbooks include : Medieval Women, medieval men, How to make > > > Medieval Shoes, 17thC Women, 1798 French Revolutionary Uniform, 1812-15 > > > French Infantry Uniform. > > > They also sell natural fibre textiles, buttons etc. > > > > > > Their business is called Petty Chapman and is based in Yorkshire UK. Tele: > > > +44 (0) 1484.512968 > > > > > > If anyone wants more information and their address, please get in touch > > > with me. I also have a full list of the available patterns and handbooks. > > > > > > (I have no connection with them - just passing information along!) > > > > > > Margaret > > > antique costume & textiles > > > http://www.artizania.co.uk > > Lindy and Dave have been re-enactors in England for a great many years > > and are friends of mine they have done a great many periods between them > > and also have a business selling cloth, patterns, buttons etc to > > re-enactors over here. > > the patterns aren't too bad although as with all patterns they are > > generic and will not necessarily fit without altering to your own shape > > > > dawn > > > Not that I know of, they don't do computer stuff. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 04:45:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30822 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:45:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07961; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:59:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA07585 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:59:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07579; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11ZWoP-0009yJ-0A; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:59:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1hIJXCAGoa$3Iwgw@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:23:34 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Crystal Pleated Gauze? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991004221718.008ac380@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <3.0.5.32.19991004221718.008ac380@postoffice.worldnet.att.net >, Kimberly Gilbert writes > > >Can anyone tell me what crystal pleated gauze is? The new >Simplicity Elizabethan pattern calls for it for the ruff, >but I have no idea what it is (or where to obtain it). Any >help would be appreciated. > >Kimberly I've met crystal organza - I had it for my wedding veil. It wouldn't be at all period, but it does have that very transparent, shiny look some of the painters capture. It's made from some kind of synthetic that seems to have been engineered to have a high refractive index(? scientists?) in each fibre, so it really glistens like crystal. I can imagine it looking fantastic on a carnival or masquerade costume, but if it's for re-enactment you probably just want a suitable weight linen or cotton. -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 04:46:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30826 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08051; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA07619 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:00:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07600 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:59:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11ZWoX-000CqF-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:59:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:56:31 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets In-Reply-To: <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <199910062030.NAA08294@apollo.directcon.net>, Margo Anderson writes > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I have a question about patterns: Do people really like those fold out >instructions sheets that come with most patterns? > >The instruction sheets are good in that one can see a number of steps at >once, but I always seem to misplace them, especially with a complex pattern >with multiple sheets. > >Would some other format, such as an 8 1/2" x 11" booklet, be preferable? > >Margo > Absolutely, a booklet would be great. Could you afford to do all the instructions for each individual pattern separately? I always end up with the sheets the wrong way round, and I'm half way through "View 2" when I think I'm doing "View 4" -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 04:50:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30832 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08291; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08013 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:04:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (IDENT:root@morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08008 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:04:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] EHLO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 35332]) by tuug.fi with ESMTP id <40816-8585>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:04:11 +0300 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:12:34 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Margo's business .....seam allowance Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199910071459.HAA19656@apollo.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <19991008100411Z40816-8585+201@tuug.fi> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 7 Oct 99, at 7:59, Margo Anderson wrote: > Even Burda gave up and started including them a few > years ago. I know when I was working in a fabric store it was like pulling > teeth to get people to use Burda because they would have to add them. As far as I know they do not do that here in Finland yet. I really like getting to choose myself how wide seam allowances I use and I hate the patterns that have seam allowances in them and no seam lines marked. -- -----------------------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:13:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30882 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11935; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14687 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:27:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14679 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:27:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OFH05M3OH (4427) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bde5f68b.252f2f17@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:27:19 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Help w/Greenberg & Hammer To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com Hi Folks, I am trying to find the Greenberg sp? & Hammer web address. Could someone help? Thank You Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:39:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30932 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13393; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16919 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:54:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c2smtp.kentlaw.edu (c2smtp.kentlaw.edu [192.148.222.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16909 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <8294FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> X-SMF-Message-ID: 8294FD3701AA3400 X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:51:00 -0500 From: KATHARINE WHISLER To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00102459 Subject: H-COST: RE: Copyrights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.51 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Fran Grimble commented on my post: > >> The owner of the right to publish has given you a tiny part of that >> right (the right to publish on your website). Because they have given >> that right to you, they cannot now give it to someone else. > >Actually, you can give someone "nonexclusive" rights to publish. I think >this is the legal default, rather than exclusive rights, but it's safer >to use the Fran, I apologize if I have confused you with my simplification. It is irrelevant whether the person in the hypo was given an exclusive or non-exclusive right to publish something on a website. The transfer of a right, whether exclusive or non-exclusive, is still a transfer of a right. Simple as that. Obviously, you can transfer a right so that it comes back to you under certain conditions, but it is still the transfer of a right. For example, if you give someone a non-exclusive right to publish something on their website, you can't give someone else the exclusive right to do so. You might find it simpler if you think of it like this: imagine that you want to use your copyright to prevent *anyone* from reading the work you created, which you attempt to do by refusing to give anyone the right to publish it. This will not do any good if prior to your decision you granted even a non-exclusive right to Doubleday to print just one copy of it. They can print that one copy and lend it to all their friends, and the next thing you know, several people have read your work! For that matter, if you sold all the rights that you still have to someone else who didn't ever want the work reprinted either, they still can't "take back" the right to print that one copy that you already gave away/sold. (We'll leave assignment of rights terminations out of it, okay!) It's very like real property. If you sell someone the couch out of your living room, and two days later you sell "all my living room furniture" to someone else, they don't get to go to the first person's house and take the couch! It's theirs now. A rights transfer is a rights transfer. As much as I enjoy discussing these issues, I doubt the rest of the list wants to read the long course in copyright law. However, I would welcome further discussion of these issues off-list. --Katharine Whisler P.S. For those who *would* like more info on copyright law, I strongly recommend "The Copyright Book" by Stephen Fishman, published by Nolo Press. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:57:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30972 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:57:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14175; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18549 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18542 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.241 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:10:52 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Crystal Pleated Gauze? Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:56:06 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bf1187$8d248060$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <1hIJXCAGoa$3Iwgw@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Silk organza (maybe by a different name) would have been period for Elizabethan times, I believe. Although cotton or linen can be very spun and woven into very transparent fabrics too. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jean Waddie > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 4:24 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Crystal Pleated Gauze? > > > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > In message > <3.0.5.32.19991004221718.008ac380@postoffice.worldnet.att.net > >, Kimberly Gilbert writes > > > > > >Can anyone tell me what crystal pleated gauze is? The new > >Simplicity Elizabethan pattern calls for it for the ruff, > >but I have no idea what it is (or where to obtain it). Any > >help would be appreciated. > > > >Kimberly > > I've met crystal organza - I had it for my wedding veil. It > wouldn't be > at all period, but it does have that very transparent, shiny look some > of the painters capture. It's made from some kind of synthetic that > seems to have been engineered to have a high refractive index(? > scientists?) in each fibre, so it really glistens like crystal. I can > imagine it looking fantastic on a carnival or masquerade > costume, but if > it's for re-enactment you probably just want a suitable > weight linen or > cotton. > -- > Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:57:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30976 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14188; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18564 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18557 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.241 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 05:10:56 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Found it Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:09:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bf1187$943f5960$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <006901bf1092$60b7ef80$3b8dfea9@gunsafes> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I didn't write that one. I believe those "fram airfilter" headresses were real life headgear, even though van der Weyden used them in two religious paintings paintings. I disagree with those people who think its purely allegorical. Someone dismissed the 1570 de Heere travelogue watercolor of the same thing on an Irish woman. Don't know why. I think its pretty clear its a third example of the same style "hat." Turbans of all sorts were very common among women in the low countries and Ireland then (1400's-1500's), though they tended to be flatter and wider than those we associate with the Middle East. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:06 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it > > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > > Hope wrote: > >> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th > >> So we have two hats of this type. What does that prove? Absolutely > >> nothing! > Cythia wrote: > >*laugh* I agree. Since both ladies are in the religious > categories, I > >would still hesitate to use them for a regular ol' person. > I *would* use > >it for a masque or something like that. :) > I am writing: > I wonder if it is something that is pulled from biblical. > Both portraits > (I think) have to do with Christ. It could be that the artist > used mostly > the modern dresses, from his time, and biblicized it with the > wrap style > headwear from what historical representation he had access to. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 07:13:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30989 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15409; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20288 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:27:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA20272 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910081227.GAA20272@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 11950 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 06:27:14 -0600 Received: from ts26-00.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.114) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 06:27:14 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:35:10 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > The book I got is called 'Bruges and the Renaissance - Memling to Porobus'. > > Sounds nice. How much is Borders asking for this? 10% off $54.00 or so. >What you describe is common -- patrons would pay to have > themselves painted into the paintings, and often that meant on the wings > (though sometimes you find the patrons in the center panel, praying amid > the sheep and cows at the Nativity or something). I have found two that have what looks like patrons portraying Mary Magdalene at the base of the cross in crucifixion scenes. It is interesting how the patrons have such a distinctive look on their faces, I guess because it was a real face and not something out of the artist's imagination. > If you have questions on specific paintings, feel free to email me. I > suspect I have just about every painting in that book already in my own > library. (And for those who remember me complaining about my books being > boxed from my recent move -- I have a friend coming this weekend to help > me unpack them, hurrah!) What I don't have in books, I probably have in > slides -- I took over 300 slides of costume details in medieval art while > I was in Flanders, mostly in Bruges. Many of them are probably not > available in books. I wish I had taken more. Now I'm trying to pick up > images of Flemish art that is scattered elsewhere in the world. Spain is > full of Flemish art, and all I've done is Madrid... > > --Robin Well, for those of us unlucky enough not to live close enough to Robin (I don't know why it took so long to get someone to help unpack, I would have moved in!), this book might be a good resource. I am putting Bruges on my list for cities to visit in the future. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 08:18:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31072 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:18:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20411; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28079 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28066 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:31:55 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03561 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:31:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15211 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:31:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:31:54 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt In-Reply-To: <37FD7232.89468347@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Ya know, they still sell the wide twill tape that is in two strips with a smaller strip perpendicular to each that you could use too. I went to the hardware store once to get a 2 hours before the event cord to make a hoop skirt for a niece and it worked. The cord is clear laytex covered steel rope. I think the twill is for the wooden venitian blinds but i could be wrong. :) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Janice Dallas wrote: > Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:25:22 -0400 > From: Janice Dallas > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt > > > -Poster: Janice Dallas > > For really cheap, you have to make your own. My first one was made from > electricians "fish" tape hung on twill tapes with loops over the waist > band for adjustments. each hoop was covered in x-wide bias tape, so I > could pin to it for positioning, then sew in place. I didn't know of a > source for steel tape at the time. Only proble was fastening the ends > together. I used shrink tubing, but it's not the best answer. Makes a > very sturdy, but non- bendable hoop. Next one was bought from Amazon > Vinegar and Pickleing co. and the third from alteryears. I also picked > up a bridal petticoat from J.C. Penneys for occasions when a hoop was > impossible (plane flights, 1840's dresses, etc. > -- > Janice Dallas > JaniceDals@MediaOne.net > "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 08:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31078 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21010; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28986 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:38:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28981 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991008133815.FNTR13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:38:15 -0700 Message-ID: <37FDF3E9.83091A4A@home.com> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:38:49 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business References: <0.63d00d1a.252ed074@aol.com> <003401bf1148$c22538c0$29f0a2d0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent -Poster: Kijee@aol.com > > "In a Timely Fashion" Or just Timely Fashion... and call it "TF" for short when we're raving about them on the list!! Kat "gosh, you really should have tried the TF pattern first... they're really the best ones out there!" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 08:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31230 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23549; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03513 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03507 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:04:26 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17152 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:04:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16483 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:04:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:04:24 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: applying silver In-Reply-To: <199910080410.VAA12794@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Thanks and keep them coming! I will be sending her a the emails tonight so that she can decided what she will do. She is going to use the trim on a costume for a child. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:10:12 -0700 > From: Margo Anderson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: applying silver > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > >What are your collective thoughts on this and what kind of spray paint would > >she use, what kind of thread, what kind of silver leaf adhesive.....what > >other better ideas do you all have short of having to purchase some of the > >expensive stuff? > > > The first Renaissance court costume I ever made (can it really be 23 years > ago?) had a forepart trimmed with $.05 a yard cotton lace which I spray > painted gold. It looked really nice (unlike the rest of the costume). Sort > of a matte finish, antique gold look. Most of the gold is rubbed off now, > so your friend might want to think about using some sort of clear spray over > the metallic. On the other hand, she probably isn't looking for decades > long durability! > > Once I get this !@#$% business plan done, I'm going to take an afternoon to > put a "youthful efforts" page on my websight, including this dress. I kept > it to teach me humility, but there are a few things on it, like that painted > lace idea, that I'm still proud of. > > Margo Anderson > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31241 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24640; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05665 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:16:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05654 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJA00HO2FKVJ3@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-Costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:14:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:24:41 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Copyrights X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-Costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991008092441.007a1320@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >> Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's >> owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. >> If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, >> does the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? > >It depends! Under the facts as you have given them, probably not. This does not match my understanding of current copyright law. If the copyright owner gives you permission to do something, and then later tells you "no, I don't want you to do that", you legally must stop whatever you are doing with it. Period. Certainly there are variations and loopholes to try and slip through, but essentially they have loaned you their property (usually for a specific purpose), but it's still their property. This is especially true when it comes to publication and distribution of their property, as through a web site. I have in my possession several really good and informative articles and photographs that I would love to upload to my clothing and shoe websites, but I can not legally do so without the permission of the copyright owner, and in several of these cases that permission has been explicitly withheld (usually from reasons of it could interfere with their publication on a particular topic - a real concern in Academe; or simply because they don't want to distribute it in that fashion. Why isn't really germaine, they could be withheld because the moon was in the wrong house, and I'd have to accept it). Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:50:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31367 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29371; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16121 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:03:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16114 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5942 invoked by alias); 8 Oct 1999 15:03:40 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 5936 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 1999 15:03:39 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 15:03:39 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991008100238.0098d480@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:03:40 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: business name Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" I really like Backward Glances too, and just think of the lovely lady glancing over her shoulder at you on every pattern envelope... Kim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:52:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31378 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:52:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29993; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16843 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:06:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16832 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23178 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:15:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14000 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:14:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:14:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Found it In-Reply-To: <000301bf1187$943f5960$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > I didn't write that one. I believe those "fram airfilter" headresses > were real life headgear, even though van der Weyden used them in two > religious paintings paintings. I disagree with those people who think > its purely allegorical. Someone dismissed the 1570 de Heere travelogue > watercolor of the same thing on an Irish woman. Don't know why. Just a guess, but maybe because it's from well over 100 years later and a different country? I would be leery of linking two isolated hats over that duration of time unless there was a mostly unbroken chain of similar examples during the intervening years. No opinion from me on the realism of the air-filter hat, not yet, but I am very leery of taking any hat from Rogier van der Weyden at face value if he used it on Magdalen. Rogier routinely used certain parts of the costume to telegraph "foreign," "sainted," or "historical," and the hat was probably his favorite device for this (and Magdalen was routinely the favorite saint used by Flemish artists to be experimental in costume). Lacking evidence from other artworks *of his same time period* -- preferably Franco-Flemish, preferably in another medium -- I would not automatically accept any Rogier Magdalen hat as realistic. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 10:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31442 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08144; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27524 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:48:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27511 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA02563; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE12B7.B5D35CCA@serv.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:50:16 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > its purely allegorical. Someone dismissed the 1570 de Heere travelogue > > watercolor of the same thing on an Irish woman. Don't know why. > > Just a guess, but maybe because it's from well over 100 years later and a > different country? I would be leery of linking two isolated hats over that > duration of time unless there was a mostly unbroken chain of similar > examples during the intervening years. Twas I who dismissed it. I did specify my reasons. I try not to dismiss out of hand, honest. But now I have a picture. The above is one of the reasons I stated but the main reason for me is that deHeere's watercolor doesn't look like the same hat *to me*. It resembles the same shape to a point but then all resemblance stops. If we are talking about the same Lucas de Heere lady (there aren't too many, she is in red and yellow) it is at http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Laterirl.htm There are ear flaps for one thing. And while there is obviously some linen wrapped, it isn't coiled from the center out. It is wrapped around a red hat of two levels, kind of plateaued with some kind of tie holding the whole thing together. To me, it looks nothing like the Magdalen hat. Assuming that this *is* the same picture by de Heere that was being discussed. If not, then nevermind. ;-> Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 10:43:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31448 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:43:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09263; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29694 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:56:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from websvr_cccs.pca.net ([207.136.43.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29485 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.227.116]) by websvr_cccs.pca.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:05:07 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BF117B.1795B500@ELEMENTAL>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:51:36 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF117B.1795B500@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: applying silver Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:41:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF117B.1795B500" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF117B.1795B500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks and keep them coming! I will be sending her a the emails tonight so that she can decided what she will do. She is going to use the trim on a costume for a child. [Carrie Veenstra] Depending on the openness of the lace, she could brush on a metallic fabric paint, (the type that's supposed to be soft when finished - not dimentional, shiny or 'wet look') probably with a paper towel in hand to blot any bits that get clogged up.. [ some of these are heat set, and would be more durable/washable than spray paint... tho I'd go with the quick and (not quite) dirty spray paint method if it's a halloween costume or something that doesn't need to be washed between wearings. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF117B.1795B500 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiQPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABABwAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBhcHBseWluZyBzaWx2ZXIAEgkBBYADAA4AAADPBwoACAAK ACkAKwAFAEsBASCAAwAOAAAAzwcKAAgACgAkAA4ABQApAQEJgAEAIQAAAERCMUFDREE5NjA3REQz MTE4QzFBMDBBMDI0OTAxQUY0ACwHAQOQBgAMBgAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAgGE6foxG/AR4AcAABAAAAHAAAAFJFOiBILUNP U1Q6IGFwcGx5aW5nIHNpbHZlcgACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvxGjn0apzRrcfWAR04waAKAkkBr0AAAe AB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAGgAAAGNhcnJpZUBncmVhdGVyYWxjaGVteS5uZXQA AAADAAYQpBAXLwMABxAVAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAVEhBTktTQU5ES0VFUFRIRU1DT01JTkdJV0lM TEJFU0VORElOR0hFUkFUSEVFTUFJTFNUT05JR0hUU09USEFUU0hFQ0FOREVDSURFRFdIQVRTSEVX SUxMRE9TSEVJU0dPSU5HVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAOcCAADjAgAA1AMAAExaRnXxIonwdwAKAQMB9yAC pAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxNNAoB9CoAIyCA7CW8yzDU1AoAKgXVjAFALAzBsaTM2AUALYG5nkDEw MzMMYGxuAiDWZQqgA2B0BZB0C6cKsWUKgFQPgG5rBCAAcGQEIGsJ4HAgdGhlFG0gBaBtC4BnISAU SSAD8GwDIGJlILcPsBawF7EgF0AFwGEXIlYgF1ALcGwEIHQCIGlkZ2gFQHNvFdQXMGHbGpEZkWMD kQWBaQEAFsDGdxtGGCNkby4GABmRMQQAIGdvGOIaMCB1+w+wGXN0BRAXYAIgFpAV1NEFoHN0dQeA IAIQGUK7D3ADEGQdgBXUIWVjAEFnDDIU5Q/gW0MKwAiBIEZWCeEgMHJhXQMwYuUBQGkP4CBEFwAY tR9xnRmCbyUBFLAEEW9mGXPxC2BjZSwkwBuDCGAhILUYYHIeoGghVR9yIAeA8wGQGEBpYyCAAaAF ECmAqwqwC4B0JzAoHuN5JQALFyEbUCcEIHN1cHD/ICAcUR5xGHImgAVAHIAJ8N8ggAuABAAXQBbA LSFVFJDvBUAY0AeAAjBpAiAHQCcwmxuAC4B5H2AFwCd3D8DBJuBvb2snKSTAFOH6YgGgbC+AA/AX MBlRCrD/JQAFwBowL+ADIAuAGRAWor8sIgkABUEV4wBwL4BiMUCrGhEbQmcv8WMJAGc0oPMWwCug Li4iIRXBFPQkwPsDMCI/WyRmGrAgYSaEHrF/CsAYgBdAG1IPwCcwFqJ33ye0GIAV1ARgOTFkCHAw 4fBlL3dhG4A7sisSA6D6cxTgYS+AKhM1gB2AFzB5HoBJJxbAHhAxJBmCcep1KXBrFpMoLjIV1D8R /xUQMHAY0AAgL4A86SkCPeD/FsAGkB3QK1IZYA+AGEAyEf8s8SAWBbE4QhcwHjMbQhXU8x1gB5Bu JwVAFLAr9zwCexxRGHB0Q1Mv4ArAF7FzFzWdIWoQcQBKMAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAAwCAEP// //9AAAcw4BsT26IRvwFAAAgw4BsT26IRvwELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAA AAMABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA VIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAPgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADABCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMA EYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAUgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUA AAAAAAAeACSACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAvlY= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF117B.1795B500-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 10:56:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31486 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11940; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02948 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:09:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02937 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:09:20 -0600 (MDT) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general3.asu.edu (general3.asu.edu [129.219.10.157]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FJA00O4IKTOFM@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general3.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04704 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:08:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:08:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: H-COST: Things to do in St. Louis In-reply-to: <37FE12B7.B5D35CCA@serv.net> X-Sender: innana@general3.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Rob and I will be in St. Louis, Missouri from December 18-25. We're going there to visit family, but will have time to go places. Niether of us are terribly familiar with the area and when Rob asked his brother-in-law what their was to do in St. Louis, the reply was "Not much". So I am appealing to the list for advice about what to do and where to go. Thanks, Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 10:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31490 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:56:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12041; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:10:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03152 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA27480 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE16D2.D8F043B3@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:07:46 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Copyrights References: <3.0.6.32.19991008092441.007a1320@pop.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Marc Carlson wrote: > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > > > >> Here's a hypothetical question: what if I had permission from an image's > >> owner to publish said image, say, a photograph, and put it on my website. > >> If the person who gave me the permission later sells the photograph, > >> does the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site? > > > >It depends! Under the facts as you have given them, probably not. > > This does not match my understanding of current copyright law. > > If the copyright owner gives you permission to do something, and then later > tells you "no, I don't want you to do that", you legally must stop whatever > you > are doing with it. Period. Certainly there are variations and loopholes > to try and slip through, but essentially they have loaned you their property > (usually for a specific purpose), but it's still their property. I think the confusion in this discussion comes from the fact that (a) the owner of a piece of physical property such as a photograph is not necessarily the copyright owner and (b) permission to use a piece of art (or text or whatever) does not constitute copyright ownership of it. It is true that generally speaking only the copyright owner can decide what can or can't be done with the work. However, copyright can be transferred (sold, bequeathed, given away); but I believe the new copyright owner can be bound by contractual conditions entered into by the previous owner, for the length of that contract. Also, of course, a person photographed (the model, professional or not) has some rights over how their image is used, even though they are not the photographer. > > > This is especially true when it comes to publication and distribution of their > property, as through a web site. I have in my possession several really good > and informative articles and photographs that I would love to upload to my > clothing and shoe websites, but I can not legally do so without the permission > of the copyright owner, and in several of these cases that permission has > been > explicitly withheld (usually from reasons of it could interfere with their > publication on a particular topic - a real concern in Academe; or simply > because > they don't want to distribute it in that fashion. Why isn't really germaine, > they could be withheld because the moon was in the wrong house, and I'd > have to > accept it). > > Marc > This is true, Fran -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 11:09:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31516 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:09:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13664; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06439 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:22:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06405 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA13718 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE19CD.238B0F06@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:20:29 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Copyrights References: <8294FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > > Fran Grimble commented on my post: > > > >> The owner of the right to publish has given you a tiny part of that > >> right (the right to publish on your website). Because they have given > >> that right to you, they cannot now give it to someone else. > > > >Actually, you can give someone "nonexclusive" rights to publish. I think > >this is the legal default, rather than exclusive rights, but it's safer > >to use the > > Fran, > I apologize if I have confused you with my simplification. It is > irrelevant whether the person in the hypo was given an exclusive or > non-exclusive right to publish something on a website. The transfer of a > right, whether exclusive or non-exclusive, is still a transfer of a > right. Simple as that. Obviously, you can transfer a right so that it > comes back to you under certain conditions, but it is still the transfer > of a right. For example, if you give someone a non-exclusive right to > publish something on their website, you can't give someone else the > exclusive right to do so. I'm not confused; I just thought other people might mistakenly think that they can only transfer rights exclusively. And that therefore granting one person, for example, the right to reproduce the picture you created on their web site might automatically mean you can't grant that right to anyone else simultaneously. You can; as long as you use that important word "nonexclusive" in both cases. Of course, yes, you can also have an exclusive right transferred back to you under certain agreed-on conditions (such as after a specified period of time). Publishing requires an awareness of copyright issues, the web is a publication medium, and so a great many people have suddenly become publishers. Which is why issues like this keep getting discussed. If you are involved in the transfer of copyrights (for example for web site use), whether you are transferring your rights to someone else or acquiring theirs, you can't be too aware of exactly what rights are being transferred. Yes, I agree it's a good idea to read a copyright book aimed at writers and publishers (rather than lawyers); though I have yet to find a really good book specifically on digital rights. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 11:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31528 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:11:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14043; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06736 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:23:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06731 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:23:52 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FDCDztV9_ (3876) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.cebf4a47.252f7476@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:23:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Things to do in St. Louis To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Missouri Historical Society, in Forest Park, has a good costume collection. I'm not sure how much is on display. While there, check out the art museum, the zoo and the Jewel Box (a small botanical garden building.) Shaw's Garden, a large botanical garden with a geodesic dome for tropical plants, is in south St. Louis. There are some historic houses. I'm not sure how active they are at the moment. One is the Campbell House. Fabric shopping: Anatole's in downtown St. Louis. (I don't remember the address, but I think it is on Washington, and you can find it in the phone book.) I grew up in St. Louis and still get back from time to time. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 11:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31582 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:42:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18336; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14109 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:53:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14061 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.44.228] (helo=DESIGN) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11ZdGu-0005OJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:53:32 -0600 From: "Design" To: Subject: H-COST: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:49:40 -0600 Message-ID: <000101bf11b5$7f074980$e42c46a6@DESIGN.alinco> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Design" Can anyone direct me to pictures of traditional Spanish clothing from the 18th century? I am especially looking for costume ideas for a Don Juan type charater. Thanks to any who can help, Kevin Wasden _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 12:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31749 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23801; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21679 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:26:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21669 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373680(6)>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:26:10 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135685(5)>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:26:03 -1000 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:25:58 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: > > The book I got is called 'Bruges and the Renaissance - Memling to Porobus'. > > Sounds nice. How much is Borders asking for this? FWIW, it's also listed by Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller (http://www.hamiltonbook.com)--$42.00. BRUGES AND THE RENAISSANCE: Memling to Pourbus Edited By Maximiliaan P.J. Martens Lavishly illustrated and wide-ranging study brings the Renaissance to life, and explores the artistic development of the period, with a focus on the spread of ideas from Italy to northern Europe. Hardbound, 300 illustrations, 250 in color. 319 pages, Published by Abrams Size(inches) 9 1/2x12. Item # 156132 ISBN 0810963825 Current Pub at $60.00 Your Price $42.00 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31891 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08855; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17378 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:18:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17361 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09725 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FE4428.E569E81C@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 15:21:12 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Saris References: <199910071809.MAA15110@net.indra.com> <4.1.19991005150131.00c17350@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I have a book that shows 70+ ways of draping a Sari! It's "SARIS: An Illustrated Guide to the Indian Art of Draping" by Chantal Boulanger. It shows all the different regional variations plus the "modern" ways. It's published by Shakti Press International, 33 Greyhound Road, London W6 8NH, Great Britain. Price: 20 pounds, US$30, Euro:29 website:http://www.devi.net I don't recall reading anything about a cotton facing, though she does mention that some silks are difficult to keep tucked at the waist. She only mentions pins. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31920 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11702; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22345 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:40:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22338 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22961 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FE4938.AAA7F791@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 15:42:48 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Things to do in St. Louis References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I'd check to see what the St.Louis Section of the International Costumers Group is up to. They're a lot of fun. Bruce and Nora Mai are the leaders, last I knew. Check their webpage for the group's e-address. They are nicknamed the S.L.U.T.S. http://members.xoom.com/CasaMai/casamai/splashx.html -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:28:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31924 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11528; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22151 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:39:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22143 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:39:18 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Help w/Greenberg & Hammer Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:35:58 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <38044731.268730783@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <0.bde5f68b.252f2f17@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <0.bde5f68b.252f2f17@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA22145 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:27:19 EDT, the following was written in this electric book by Mayfair13a@aol.com: >I am trying to find the Greenberg sp? & Hammer web address. Could someone >help? They do not yet have one. When I called them to ask, I was told sometime this coming spring, most likely. THey need to get that ENTIRE catalog online, because they want to have a functional website (online ordering was hinted). Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:30:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31930 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12091; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23076 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:42:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23044 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.6]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:42:56 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Crystal Pleated Gauze? Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:39:36 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <380547d9.268899472@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000201bf1187$8d248060$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> In-Reply-To: <000201bf1187$8d248060$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA23051 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:56:06 -0400, the following was written in this electric book by "Hope H. Dunlap" : >Silk organza (maybe by a different name) would have been >period for Elizabethan times, I believe. Although cotton or >linen can be very spun and woven into very transparent >fabrics too. And if you want a relatively inexpensive source for 100% silk organza, try http://www.dharmatrading.com Really. I ordered all the fabrics for my wedding dress from them, and the quality is great, the prices are amazing and the customer service is vastly superior. If anyone is wondering, that wedding dress is for a wedding this coming january, so it's a current recommendation. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:34:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32078 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20453; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07605 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:47:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07586 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA14604; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE58E3.42F9F2B2@serv.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 13:49:40 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: was it this list? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris That was discussing the dresses with pinned on sleeves? I was browsing Museums stuff on the web and came across this: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/index1.html Scroll down to the Passion Alterpiece. Here is a gown where the gown fabric is *far* more fantastic than the sleeves. And you can see the seams. He doesn't paint the fabric as though there are seams but he did draw in the seams themselves. Now again, this is more religious stuff, but I think the gowns were quite typical of the time. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:42:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32088 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21437; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09333 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09320 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:55:25 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07075 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:55:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07914 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:55:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:55:23 -0500 (CDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? In-Reply-To: <37FE58E3.42F9F2B2@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Try again on the URL. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32095 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22708; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11210 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:03:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11187 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id OAA15252; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE5CA7.E9232FC4@serv.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:05:43 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Try again on the URL. > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/index1.html Ah, weird. Darned frames. The URL is correct but you have too: Click on M in the left hand colum Click on Memling Click on "Paintings of a Religious Subject Matter" Scroll all the way to the bottom Click on Altars Dang, shouldn't have to be that hard. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:56:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32099 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:56:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23650; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12926 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:10:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12910 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 8 Oct 99 16:10:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <037701bf11d0$e98d8920$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:05:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Which artist.....this link only took me to the main url. Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: Historical Costume Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 3:52 PM Subject: H-COST: was it this list? > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >That was discussing the dresses with pinned on sleeves? I was >browsing Museums stuff on the web and came across this: > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/index1.html > >Scroll down to the Passion Alterpiece. Here is a gown where the gown >fabric is *far* more fantastic than the sleeves. And you can see the >seams. He doesn't paint the fabric as though there are seams but he >did draw in the seams themselves. Now again, this is more religious >stuff, but I think the gowns were quite typical of the time. > >Cynthia > >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Beaumaris >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:07:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32121 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24768; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15133 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15120 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:20:37 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19265 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:20:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08843 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:20:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:20:35 -0500 (CDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? In-Reply-To: <37FE58E3.42F9F2B2@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com WOW! For those of you that are still not able to find it: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/religion/altar/passion3.jpg This is just beautiful, not only are there seams but the pattern is not matched up and it shows her back! A rare back of the dress view is worth a veiwing. We have so few good examples of what they did in the back. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:44:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32162 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29435; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23392 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:56:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23379 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:56:40 -0600 (MDT) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general4.asu.edu (general4.asu.edu [129.219.10.154]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FJB00JNQ0Y9G8@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:56:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general4.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11092 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:56:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:56:31 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: Things to do in St. Louis In-reply-to: <0.cebf4a47.252f7476@aol.com> X-Sender: innana@general4.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 AnnBWass@AOL.COM wrote: > > -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > > Missouri Historical Society, in Forest Park, has a good costume collection. > I'm not sure how much is on display. Is it possible to make an appointment to view the stuff in the collection that is not on display? > > Fabric shopping: Anatole's in downtown St. Louis. (I don't remember the > address, but I think it is on Washington, and you can find it in the phone > book.) What kind of stuff do they carry? Thanks for all the suggestions! Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32166 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29449; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23567 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:57:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23555 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19941 invoked by alias); 8 Oct 1999 21:57:24 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 19925 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 1999 21:57:23 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 21:57:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991008165201.00995ac0@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:57:23 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: Things to do in St. Louis In-Reply-To: References: <37FE12B7.B5D35CCA@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" OK, I know it's obvious, but you really must see the Gateway Arch. Allow time for watching the movie and riding to the top. It's also impressive at night (although not open). Look for night life in the area near the arch, in old warehouses or on riverboats. And if you like Italian food (who doesn't) find some great restaurants on The Hill in south St. Louis. They've converted the old union train station into shops, if you like that kind of thing. It's worth the trip there for the Chinese restaurant inside. Can't remember the name, but try the sizzling rice soup and pot stickers there. And the Art Museum, in Forest Park, is always worth a visit. Kim At 09:08 AM 10/08/1999 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu > >Rob and I will be in St. Louis, Missouri from December 18-25. We're >going there to visit family, but will have time to go places. > Niether of us are terribly familiar with the area and when Rob asked >his brother-in-law what their was to do in St. Louis, the reply was "Not >much". So I am appealing to the list for advice about what to do and where to >go. > >Thanks, >Katie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:47:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32172 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:47:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29929; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24384 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:01:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24369 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:01:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EFRa17057 (4332) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c72c0b0c.252fc38c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:00:44 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Caftan/Simar/Italian Renaissance To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I believe ther term is "chamarre." Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32184 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01096; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:11:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26520 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:11:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26505 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA17886; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE6C95.BF16AB02@serv.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 15:13:42 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > For those of you that are still not able to find it: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/religion/altar/passion3.jpg > > This is just beautiful, not only are there seams but the pattern is not > matched up and it shows her back! I missed the pattern un-match along the sides. doh! I was looking for sleeve construction so carefully that I missed that entirely! *Laugh* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 17:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32212 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04389; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01707 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:36:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01694 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:36:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ABMa26614 (4332) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.de6f6424.252fcbd2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:36:02 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have seen period Italian silk velvet (there are a couple of samples of ecclesiastical garb at The Cloisters in NYC). It is very fine and drapes beautifully. I have also seen denser period velvet (I don't know the fiber content) that looks very much like modern velveteen. It could have been interfaced & lined to a fare-thee-well to make it hang differently, but I couldn't tell since it was under glass. It did not have the sheen the silk velvet had, so perhaps it was a combination of fibers. I guess it depends on what you want to make. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 19:06:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32337 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14761; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17862 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:19:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17848 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in15.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.15]) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA28108 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00f601bf11eb$f03a42c0$0f5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: <199910071401.IAA15394@net.indra.com> <37FCE97C.9E4196B1@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:19:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > > One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so > that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the > machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you > put the bobbin back in. Back when the canned air was first really "big" a sewing machine repairman a good one) told me never to use it. Canned air would push a certain amount of lint & dirt deeper into the machine, eventually causing more problems. I use the same small vacuum attachments as I use for my computer to clean my machines. Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 19:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32357 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16551; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20817 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:42:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20812 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in15.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.15]) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05666 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02e801bf11ef$117501c0$0f5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: <199910052215.QAA14215@net.indra.com> <4.1.19991005143131.00bf0290@pop.slip.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Obscure machine: "Domestic" brand "Gaiety" model Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:41:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > > >Has anyone ever heard of this machine ("Gaiety" is a decal on the > >machine, "Domestic" is a metal logo)? It's a dumpster-dive rescuee, and > >seems to be stuck - stitch selector on a fancy stitch, roto thingie > >won't turn :-( It looks about the same vintage as my Singer 403 or > >maybe later - but still all-metal. Anyone out there ever heard of it, > >or have any clues on what's wrong with it? My mother and I have managed to fix (i.e.. unfreeze) several machines. If you haven't already - clean it. Vacuum every inch of it that you can reach, wipe it down with a damp cloth, then oil/lubricate all the traditional areas. Is it frozen with the needle up or down? If it is down it may be caught on something. Either way - take it out, it will be easier and safer to work with. Take out the bobbin case and check for any tangled threads. Check the whole bobbin case assembly for small bits of stuck thread also. If something seems really frozen - not bent or jammed but just won't move- try penetrating oil. Check your local library for repair books. All the old mechanical machines shared very similar part/construction techniques so the repair book doesn't really need to be model specific. I "think" this is the one we used once or twice: Author Hutchison, Howard. Title The complete handbook of sewing machine repair Edition 1st ed. Publisher Blue Ridge Summit, Pa. : Tab Books, c1980. Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 19:51:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32378 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:51:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18723; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23258 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:04:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.jersey.juno.com [209.67.33.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23252 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:04:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from henninlady@juno.com) by m3.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ENFWCU2Q; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 21:04:43 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:13:10 -0400 Subject: H-COST: Re: Name My Business Message-ID: <19991008.210616.4366.0.henninlady@juno.com> References: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2 From: Elizabeth Cummins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins How about "Tailored for Time"? Elizabeth Cummins ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 21:27:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32431 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26158; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03514 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:41:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03494 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21587 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 02:40:48 -0000 Received: from 202.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.202) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 02:40:48 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991008194318.3a67648c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Dyeing quesion Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 12:53 PM 10/7/99 -0500, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > >I have a piece of fabric that I got at a thrift store cheap which I have >been intending to use on my first attempt at Tudor garb. I have, however, >decided that the color is inappropriate, and furthermore, I don't like it. >The fabric itself is a nice, heavy, drapy satin-weave cotton, kelly green >on one side and a mottled turquoise/kelly teal-ish color on the other. > >What I would like to know is what color I should over dye it for something >more appropriate, and what kind of dye is reasonably easy to use for >someone without a kitchen or washer of her own (ie: living in a dorm). > >Many thanks in advance for any help or advice > >Emma Well, which color to use depends upon what color you are hoping to achieve . If you want to get away from greens, you would need to add red to it until you reach a nice rich brown. Or if you want a deeper green, you add black to it. Another way to proceed is to first strip the color out of the cloth with something like the color stripper from RIT. You then have a paler cloth to start from. I have found an Artist's Color Wheel to be a valuable tool when I'm trying to decide what dye colors to use. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 22:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32465 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29669; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08464 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:30:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08447 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p45.directcon.net [206.170.184.144]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17487 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:28:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:28:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199910090328.UAA17487@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Back when the canned air was first really "big" a sewing machine repairman > a good one) told me never to use it. Canned air would push a certain amount >of lint & dirt deeper into the machine, eventually causing more problems. I >use the same small vacuum attachments as I use for my computer to clean my >machines. > I was at Office Max today and saw what I thought at first wqs a glue gun. It turned out to be a miniature, hand held vaccuum cleaner, with several different attachments, all for $10. Perfect for sewing machines. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 8 22:40:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32596 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:40:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01937; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10766 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:54:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10759 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k634.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.234]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10309 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FEBBB5.6597@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 20:51:17 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? References: <6235FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > > -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > > Recently, the man in my life asked me to make him an early (Tang > Dynasty, say) costume to wear to an SCA event. After looking at a bunch > of art books, I think I have it covered, but there is one thing that still > really mystifies me. Lucky you to work on such an interesting period. I didn't know China was now part of SCA land. Great! Will you have pictures when it's done?? (Sorry I don't know how the "turbans" are tied) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 00:58:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00352 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10706; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22823 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:12:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22815 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.179] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Zpjz-0006MH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:12:24 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 23:09:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Name My Business In-Reply-To: <19991008.210616.4366.0.henninlady@juno.com> References: <199910052000.NAA16223@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:13 PM 10/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins >How about "Tailored for Time"? Elizabeth Cummins Brava! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 10:45:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29601 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:45:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08896; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03314 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:57:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03309 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991009155705.BCEK650.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:57:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37FF63F2.1DD0116C@home.com> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:49:06 -0700 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Russell Hedges I have to post on this subject. The first hoop skirt I ever saw in person went "SHOOP SHOOP" as she walked. Not just a Hula Hoop, but a Shoop Shoop Hula Hoop. Does anyone know what a "POOF" is? Hint, it's a piece of furniture. Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 11:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29619 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10508; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05531 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:19:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05524 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11893 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:17:37 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:17:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199910091617.JAA11893@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Does anyone know what a "POOF" is? Hint, it's a piece of furniture. > >Try spelling it "pouf". It's an overstuffed, usually round and "pouffy" hassock thing. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 11:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29629 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12522; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09179 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:45:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09173 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.106 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:44:56 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Don Juan Style Spanish Costume Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:53:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bf1277$04d465e0$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000101bf11b5$7f074980$e42c46a6@DESIGN.alinco> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There are a few paragraphs in the Countess of Wilton's 1846 The Book of Costume, or Annals of Fashion, ed. by RLShep, regarding the costume of the Spaniard and a line drawing: "The most important part of the Spaniard's costume is the capa or cloak ... that worn by the higher classes is of blue or black cloth, faced with rich black silk velvet, and frequently lined throughout with taffety ... not a winter garment alone; in the hottest days of summer it is often worn ... "The rest of the costume consists of a short round jacket, with an upright collar. It is sometimes of dyed sheepskin with the wool outwards, but more commonly of coarse cloth or velvet, brown, green, blue or black--adorned with tags on the breasts, trimmed with braid and velvet, lined with silk ...often has silk epaulettes... Two handkercheifs are thrust into small side pockets, red and white, or red and yellow, with their ends depending (sic). "The waistcoat on fete-days is generally bright silk, gaily figured, often with representations of bullfights. It is adorned with basket-buttons, and trimmed with braid like the jacket, and is worn very open to display the well-worked shirt, the collars of which are invariably turned down, leaving the throat exposed. Round the neck is worn a silk scarf, tied in a slip knot, descending on the bosom. It is generally crimson, pink, or canary cooed, but ought always to correspond in hue to the lineing of the jacket, and with the sash or faga, which is a narrow strip of silk or worsted, girded round the waist with several turns. One end is often sewn up into a pouch, which serves as a purse, and bag for tobacco. A large clasp knife is a never-failing intimate of the faga. "Tight breeches of blue, green, or chocolate plush, or punto, reach below the knee, where they are tied with cords, terminating in tassels of the same color. The outer seams are adorned with rows of dangling basket-buttons, plaited or gilt, and sometimes with broad stripes of dark braid. The legs are cased in splatterdashes or botines of calf-skin, fastened with leather loops on the outer sides of the legs, bur left open at the calf, so as always to give the appearance of a full and handsome limb. They are made with the rough side outwards--and are carefully worked on the front and back with flowers of darker leather ... sometimes stittched with silk of various colors. "The shoes (zapatos) are partially covered by the botines, are of similar leather, so that together they appear like high boots .... and rarely of black tanned leather studded with brass tacks... "Over the head is a bright silk handkercheif, folded diagonally, and tied with a knot behind ... over this is a broad -brimmed sugarloaf hat of black felt." I believe she is describing the plains Spaniard here, as she goes on to describe another costume for the men of the mountainous regions. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Design > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:54 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:49:40 -0600 > > > > -Poster: "Design" > > Can anyone direct me to pictures of traditional Spanish > clothing from the > 18th century? I am especially looking for costume ideas for > a Don Juan type > charater. > > Thanks to any who can help, > Kevin Wasden _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 11:34:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29633 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12690; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09348 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:47:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09342 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991009164656.SLZ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:46:56 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 09:50:50 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991009164656.SLZ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Depends where you are. Pouf in Europe means gay. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Margo Anderson >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt >Date: Sat, Oct 9, 1999, 9:17 AM > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >> >> Does anyone know what a "POOF" is? Hint, it's a piece of furniture. >> >>Try spelling it "pouf". It's an overstuffed, usually round and "pouffy" >hassock thing. > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 11:35:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29637 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:35:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12822; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09434 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:48:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09429 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:48:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6XLTo5MIx_ (4380) for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c61103c.2530cba5@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:47:33 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 10/9/99 10:00:54 AM Mountain Daylight Time, russellh@home.com writes: << Does anyone know what a "POOF" is? Hint, it's a piece of furniture. >> It looks like a giant overstuffed ottoman, generally circular in form for all-around seating in a central area. Often found in hotel lobbies in generations gone by. Used often in period plays with hotel interiors. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 11:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29654 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13888; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10962 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:01:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10954 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.188 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:01:10 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Found it Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:09:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bf1279$49bb07c0$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37FE12B7.B5D35CCA@serv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There are two paintings of differentwomen by de Heere with the hat under discussion of the 1560-1570 period, can be seen, tho fuzzy, at http://www.reconstructinghistory.com. That linen strip apprears to be wound around the head after the woman has donned a red pillow-case. After winding, the red top flops down on the windings to cover the head, and the bottom flaps out below. Keeps the weather off the top of her head, for sure. Could be done differently, this is just a guess. The topper and the flaps are different than the van der Weyden Magdalene, to be sure, but the windings sure do look awfully similar, particularly when viewed in greater detail in books like Dunbar's. It doesn't "prove" anything, but it does cast doubt on the rather broad statement inferring the winding thing is so ridiculous that nobody would have worn it attitude. Irish trade with the low countries at that time was equal to that of England. Many elements of the costumes are similar, including the cut of the Shinrone gown. To switch gears slightly, has anyone else seen Aretha Franklin in that whacky hat on the magazine cover this week? Sort of a gilt cardboard version of the halo. Does rather suggest humans will wear anything when they are trying to set style. Apologies to a great and beloved lady ..... but she has worn better garb, in my opinion! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:50 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > > its purely allegorical. Someone dismissed the 1570 de > Heere travelogue > > > watercolor of the same thing on an Irish woman. Don't know why. > > > > Just a guess, but maybe because it's from well over 100 > years later and a > > different country? I would be leery of linking two isolated > hats over that > > duration of time unless there was a mostly unbroken chain of similar > > examples during the intervening years. > > Twas I who dismissed it. I did specify my reasons. I try > not to dismiss out > of hand, honest. But now I have a picture. The above is one > of the reasons I > stated but the main reason for me is that deHeere's > watercolor doesn't look > like the same hat *to me*. It resembles the same shape to a > point but then > all resemblance stops. If we are talking about the same > Lucas de Heere lady > (there aren't too many, she is in red and yellow) it is at > http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Laterirl.htm There are ear flaps > for one thing. > And while there is obviously some linen wrapped, it isn't > coiled from the > center out. It is wrapped around a red hat of two levels, > kind of plateaued > with some kind of tie holding the whole thing together. To > me, it looks > nothing like the Magdalen hat. > > Assuming that this *is* the same picture by de Heere that was being > discussed. If not, then nevermind. ;-> > > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:15:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29678 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:15:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15765; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13957 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:28:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13947 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23024 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:28:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-21.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.21]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07041 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00af01bf127d$2105bf60$0be6fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: copyrights Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:38:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Wouldn't it work somewhat like a book. The previous owner gives permission, the picture gets published in a book. The new owner doesn't like it, but can't make the already printed and sold books no longer exist. I know that a site isn't that permanent, but how would you control what was already released? Michelle >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><the new owner have the right to make me take it off the site?>> > >Probably. Reproduction rights usually -- not always -- go with the sale >(major exception is when the person selling the work created it. In other >words, when you buy an original painting or work of art from the artist, >you normally don't automatically get the reproduction rights.) > > >Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:16:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29685 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15842; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14048 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:29:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14043 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991009172937.CECC650.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37FF79A8.5FE584E@home.com> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 10:21:44 -0700 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt References: <199910091617.JAA11893@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Russell Hedges Margo Anderson wrote: > > >Try spelling it "pouf". It's an overstuffed, usually round and "pouffy" > hassock thing. > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > Oh, that was fast! And I knew I was spelling it wrong, I had no clue. Thank you! I bring it up 'cause my Grandmother made one, from an old table, and it has been in the family ever since. My sister has it now, she took a course in making and repairing furniture. Fixed it up like new. A pouf is for sitting on when wearing a hoop skirt. Or so I have been told. Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:22:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29699 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16278; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14638 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:34:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14625 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17705 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:33:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:33:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199910091733.KAA17705@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:50 AM 10/09/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >Depends where you are. Pouf in Europe means gay. >~!~ R.L.Shep Just goes to show that these thngs vary: I thought the spelling "poof", short for "poofter", meant gay, and the overstuffed hassock was a "pouf". Of course, some gay men I know are round and overstuffed....oops, I had better stop here. Wildly off topic, Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29707 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16377; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14826 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:36:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14820 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25005 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-21.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.21]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11097 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00e701bf127e$3c1bd720$0be6fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: H-COST: hoop skirts Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:46:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: Jean Zerby >Can anyone give me info for getting a hoop skirt/ (As cheap as possible, goes >w/o saying ) > >Thanks > >Raella There is a business here in Fresno, Ca that makes and sells them at $65 each. Can anyone get them cheaper? Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:30:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29713 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16896; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15451 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:42:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15445 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.217 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:42:12 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Don Juan Style Costume Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:51:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bf127f$03f99ca0$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There are a number of Spanish portrait paintings of the 1700's here, which show the male Spanish costumes of the period beautifully: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/spanish.htm#sp17. There is a range of male costume depicted here, from very conservative to flamboyant, for you to pick and choose from. Countess of Wilton's description, though written in 1846, would have applied to many features of 18th Century costume, depending on the age and rank of the male being depicted. Ramón Bayeu's "Boy with Guitar," 1786, oil on canvas, Museo del Prado, Madrid shows those silken epaulettes she mentions, for instance. The frock coat is much in evidence, but with heavily embroidered velvet turn-backs (revers and cuffs) and vest. The round jacket is shown too. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:36:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29717 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17550; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16065 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:48:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16059 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA22660 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FF8027.F39D3F7C@best.com> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 10:49:27 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: copyrights References: <00af01bf127d$2105bf60$0be6fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Michelle wrote: > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Wouldn't it work somewhat like a book. The previous owner gives permission, > the picture gets published in a book. The new owner doesn't like it, but > can't make the already printed and sold books no longer exist. I know that > a site isn't that permanent, but how would you control what was already > released? > Michelle First, as I understand it, what a second copyright owner "liked" would not really be the issue, but whether the agreement for use made with the previous copyright owner also bound the second owner. Second, material can easily be removed from a web site, and a copyright owner who discovered his/her work illegally published on a web site could ask for its removal. Third, a copyright owner who discovered his/her work illegally published could ask for compensatory payment to be made for its use, and/or sue for such payment. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 13:08:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29740 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:08:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20004; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19373 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:21:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19365 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.149]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991009181440.KKEX23121.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 19:14:40 +0100 Message-ID: <37FFEBC0.7670@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 18:28:32 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt References: <19991009164656.SLZ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn R.L. Shep wrote: > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > Depends where you are. Pouf in Europe means gay. > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com > > ---------- > >No that one is spelt poof Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 13:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29762 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:27:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21432; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21168 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:40:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21152 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.217 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:39:41 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Don Juan Style Spanish Costume Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:49:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bf1287$0c852300$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" http://www2.iinet.com/art/artists/major/g/goya.htm shows 46 images from Goya, many of which are from the 18th Century. His style can be quite loose, making details sometimes hard to pick out, but the unique Spanish sillouettes and colors are all there! Usining the painters names from the sunsite index I referenced earlier, you can do a search on http://www.metacrawler.com, the master search engine, for additional paintings by Spanish artists of the 18th Century. Hpe H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 17:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30069 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09153; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15028 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:43:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15015 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:42:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA19409 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:12:53 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA30088; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:12:52 +0930 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:12:52 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt In-Reply-To: <37FF79A8.5FE584E@home.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Russell Hedges wrote: > > > >Try spelling it "pouf". It's an overstuffed, usually round and "pouffy" > > hassock thing. > > > > Margo > > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > > > Oh, that was fast! And I knew I was spelling it wrong, I had no clue. > Thank you! > > I bring it up 'cause my Grandmother made one, from an old table, and it > has been in the family ever since. My sister has it now, she took a > course in making and repairing furniture. Fixed it up like new. > > A pouf is for sitting on when wearing a hoop skirt. > > Or so I have been told. > I've always been under the impression that they were a kind of footstool. (ie like a giant cushion for putting your feet on) Though I guess you could put your backside on one too. The word is only used with the 'gay' connoitation in this country so far as I'm aware, but my mother delights in calling her 'Feetseat' a pouf 'cos it embarrasses my brothers *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 17:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30088 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10024; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15860 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:49:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15852 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:49:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6MMZa12223 (4559) for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.a8bbc891.25312038@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:48:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: memling picture To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Wow! Thanks to whoever posted that information about the Memling altarpiece picture. What a great thing to see! And that cotehardie (or kirtle, or whatever we're calling it today) fits just the way mine do! But I would never have imagined that paisley fabric. Pretty great. Another picture on the same page, the central panel of the Donne Triptych, shows a woman on the right hand side of the picture with a plain green gown and brocade pinned-on sleeves, apparently meant to be worn without another dress on top. It's a lovely picture with quite a few nice gowns -- and all the women have "super model" type figures, too, rather than the shorter and rounder build I tend to think of as medieval. When I have more time, I plan to check out the rest of the Memling pix too! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 19:30:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30178 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 19:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18539; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26079 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:44:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26074 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-190.s190.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.190]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19267 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002e01bf12b8$ea2c08a0$be56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Patterns Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:46:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Who sells historic patterns for costumes for the War of 1812 reenactment for men and women? Can you please send me web addresses and/or phone numbers. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 22:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30343 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01113; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09653 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:18:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09647 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:18:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm451-01.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.59]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17481 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38000717.D06EB5A8@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 23:25:17 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Cool! Raella ches@io.com wrote: > -Poster: ches@io.com > > WOW! > > For those of you that are still not able to find it: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/religion/altar/passion3.jpg > > This is just beautiful, not only are there seams but the pattern is not > matched up and it shows her back! A rare back of the dress view is worth a > veiwing. We have so few good examples of what they did in the back. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 22:11:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30392 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:11:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01481; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10246 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:25:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10239 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm451-01.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.59]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17969 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380008D6.1CAB5D6@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 23:32:45 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: hoop skirt References: <37FF63F2.1DD0116C@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Not only do I know what a POOF is, I have one! I'm not sure it's the same as yours, My grandparent brought a few back from Nigeria a long time ago. It's like a leather ottoman w/o wheels or internal structure. They stuffed them full of newpaper in Africa, mines stuffed w/ old pillows. Raella Russell Hedges wrote: > -Poster: Russell Hedges > > I have to post on this subject. The first hoop skirt I ever saw in > person went "SHOOP SHOOP" as she walked. > > Not just a Hula Hoop, but a Shoop Shoop Hula Hoop. > > Does anyone know what a "POOF" is? Hint, it's a piece of furniture. > > Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 22:13:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30400 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:13:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01626; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10411 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:27:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10404 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm451-01.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.59]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17987 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38000943.7F08E607@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 23:34:33 -0400 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Don Juan Style Spanish Costume References: <000201bf1277$04d465e0$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby Try The Historic Spanish Society in NYNY Raella "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > There are a few paragraphs in the Countess of Wilton's 1846 > The Book of Costume, or > Annals of Fashion, ed. by RLShep, regarding the costume of > the Spaniard and a line drawing: > > "The most important part of the Spaniard's costume is the > capa or cloak ... that worn by the higher classes is of > blue or black cloth, faced with rich black silk velvet, and > frequently lined throughout with taffety ... not a winter > garment alone; in the hottest days of summer it is often > worn ... > > "The rest of the costume consists of a short round jacket, > with an upright collar. It is sometimes of dyed sheepskin > with the wool outwards, but more commonly of coarse cloth or > velvet, brown, green, blue or black--adorned with tags on > the breasts, trimmed with braid and velvet, lined with silk > ...often has silk epaulettes... Two handkercheifs are thrust > into small side pockets, red and white, or red and yellow, > with their ends depending (sic). > > "The waistcoat on fete-days is generally bright silk, gaily > figured, often with representations of bullfights. It is > adorned with basket-buttons, and trimmed with braid like the > jacket, and is worn very open to display the well-worked > shirt, the collars of which are invariably turned down, > leaving the throat exposed. Round the neck is worn a silk > scarf, tied in a slip knot, descending on the bosom. It is > generally crimson, pink, or canary cooed, but ought always > to correspond in hue to the lineing of the jacket, and with > the sash or faga, which is a narrow strip of silk or > worsted, girded round the waist with several turns. One end > is often sewn up into a pouch, which serves as a purse, and > bag for tobacco. A large clasp knife is a never-failing > intimate of the faga. > > "Tight breeches of blue, green, or chocolate plush, or > punto, reach below the knee, where they are tied with cords, > terminating in tassels of the same color. The outer seams > are adorned with rows of dangling basket-buttons, plaited or > gilt, and sometimes with broad stripes of dark braid. The > legs are cased in splatterdashes or botines of calf-skin, > fastened with leather loops on the outer sides of the legs, > bur left open at the calf, so as always to give the > appearance of a full and handsome limb. They are made with > the rough side outwards--and are carefully worked on the > front and back with flowers of darker leather ... sometimes > stittched with silk of various colors. > > "The shoes (zapatos) are partially covered by the botines, > are of similar leather, so that together they appear like > high boots .... and rarely of black tanned leather studded > with brass tacks... > > "Over the head is a bright silk handkercheif, folded > diagonally, and tied with a knot behind ... over this is a > broad -brimmed sugarloaf hat of black felt." > > I believe she is describing the plains Spaniard here, as she > goes on to describe another costume for the men of the > mountainous regions. > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Design > > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:54 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: H-COST: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:49:40 -0600 > > > > > > > > -Poster: "Design" > > > > Can anyone direct me to pictures of traditional Spanish > > clothing from the > > 18th century? I am especially looking for costume ideas > for > > a Don Juan type > > charater. > > > > Thanks to any who can help, > > Kevin Wasden _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 23:10:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30434 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:10:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06073; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15417 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:24:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15412 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-54.radiks.net [206.29.243.56]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA12636 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:22:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991009232038.03c01a7c@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 23:20:38 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Crystal pleated gauze In-Reply-To: <199910081332.HAA28125@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >>, Kimberly Gilbert writes > >>Can anyone tell me what crystal pleated gauze is? The new >>Simplicity Elizabethan pattern calls for it for the ruff, >>but I have no idea what it is (or where to obtain it). Any >>help would be appreciated. >> >>Kimberly > Crystal pleating is very tiny accordion pleating, many times used in ruffles. Similar to the type of pleating Madame Vionnet is known for. I have seen pre-made crystal pleated gauze ruffles and yardage in the bridal section of Hancocks. It's probably nylon or polyester (not period!) but you can get an idea of what it looks like. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 23:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30454 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07322; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16891 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:41:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16883 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-190.s190.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.190]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA10811 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014d01bf12d9$dc5626e0$be56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: National Geographic CD-ROM Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:42:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I was in COSTCO yesterday and the National Geographic CD-rom set was $99 and it has a coupon for a $30 rebate good until Dec. 31. So the price is now $69. It is coming down into my price range. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 9 23:48:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30478 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09128; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18525 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:03:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA18520 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910100502.XAA18520@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 16894 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 23:02:56 -0600 Received: from ts26-08.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.122) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 23:02:56 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Same Woman Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:10:42 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. If you go to; http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/religion/altar/ Click on - Diptych1.jpg and then on Donne.jpg. See the woman with the sideless surcote with the white top and patterned bottom and red underdress? She is also in another triptych of Memling's in my new fabulous Bruges book. 'Triptych of Saints John the Baptist and John the Evangelist'. OK, why is Mary Magdelene portrayed as having sleeves that are often red or another color different from the dress? Also who was Sisamnes? There is a graphic painting of him being flayed in my new fabulous (OK, I probably paid too much for it) Bruges book. The painting is called The Justice of Cambyses. Again the people have that realistic look about them, even the guy being flayed. I wasn't sure if it was allegorical in nature. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 00:00:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30515 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09781; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19691 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:14:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19682 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03385 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 01:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38002153.141BFB49@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 01:17:07 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1812Patterns References: <002e01bf12b8$ea2c08a0$be56accf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas AlterYears carries 1812 era patterns in these brands: Wingeo, La Mode Bagatelle, Rocking Horse Farm (has men's and Dragoon uniform as well),The Mantua Maker, Tailor's Guide (has men's also), Harriet's Patterns (has men's),and Period Patterns. They may have more in the new catalog, mine's from '98. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 00:39:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30682 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:39:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11859; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA22550 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:51:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22545 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-57.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.57]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id PAA29242 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:51:27 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910100551.PAA29242@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:35:00 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" She may be a family member, lover or some other friend of the artist. Artists often placed friends and families in thier work...David's coronation of Napoleon, for instance, has the artist's family watching proceedings from a mezzanine in spite of the fact that they had not attended. -C. > Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and > red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 13:14:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27965 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:14:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26782; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11022 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:26:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11007 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910101826.MAA11007@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 13345 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 12:26:37 -0600 Received: from ts26-27.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.141) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 12:26:37 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:34:19 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/portrait/ Then click on woman-lo.jpg or portinar.jpg What is the consensus on the collars on the dresses? Are they sewn as a part of the dress or attached separately? The collars in these two portraits look to be made of fur and look as if they may be attached separately, but I have seen others that appear to be linen and go under (tucked?) the belt. This is a great Web Page. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 13:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27973 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27657; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12734 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:41:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12729 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] (58-127.netwurx.net [209.207.58.127]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14943 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:41:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37FD8274.CDF33186@best.com> References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:41:08 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Lavolta Press > As far as I know, photos of paintings are as copyrightable as photos of >sculptures or >buildings or people. If two different photographers take pictures of a >painting, >each photographer owns the copyright to his/her own picture (though not to the >original painting). A scan is essentially a photo. <...> >Actually, as I understand it, you do own the rights to a photo you have taken >yourself, no matter what it is of. Unless of course you have sold or otherwise >transferred those rights. In some cases you may need someone else's >permission to >create/take the photo to begin with, or to publish it. I am wondering if you could clarify a bit. For the purposes of this question, I am not so interested in my own things being copyright-protected as in not violating someone else's copyright. If a scan is a photo, and the photographer has rights to any photographs (scans) that they have taken, then if I scan a photo (say, from a book), and the images in the book are obviously copyrighted, may I or may I not publish this picture on my website? I see from your last sentence (in the above snip) that this may vary, but how do I distinguish? Also, I am happy to give full attribution to the source--does this change things any? My second question relates to the beginning of this thread, in which one person suggested some ebay images as a source and you replied that this is a violation of the seller's copyright. Having read through the relevant part of ebay's user agreement, this is indeed what it says. Is this legal for them to say regarding personal use? That is, if all I want to do is copy an image for my own personal use, never to be published or used in any commercial endeavor? I am certainly far from an expert, but I thought that personal and educational uses (not abuses) were legal even for copyrighted images. Thanks for any help you can give. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 13:54:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27987 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:54:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29353; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:08:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15420 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA18742 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3800E49E.72D39D61@best.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:10:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Melanie Schuessler wrote: > - > > If a scan is a photo, and the photographer has rights to any photographs > (scans) that they have taken, then if I scan a photo (say, from a book), > and the images in the book are obviously copyrighted, may I or may I not > publish this picture on my website? I see from your last sentence (in the > above snip) that this may vary, but how do I distinguish? If you make a scan of a photo that someone else has taken, and that photo is covered by modern copyright, then I believe your scan is a derivative work. You may not publish derivative works of copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright owner of the original work > My second question relates to the beginning of this thread, in which one > person suggested some ebay images as a source and you replied that this is > a violation of the seller's copyright. Having read through the relevant > part of ebay's user agreement, this is indeed what it says. Is this legal > for them to say regarding personal use? That is, if all I want to do is > copy an image for my own personal use, never to be published or used in any > commercial endeavor? I am certainly far from an expert, but I thought that > personal and educational uses (not abuses) were legal even for copyrighted > images. "Educational use" is subject to significant limitations, which I have mentioned before at length on the h-costume list. Among them are a connection with a formal, nonprofit classroom, the number of copies made, the length of the material used, spontaneity (there was not enough time to order a textbook and have the students buy it), and other considerations. For more information, see a book on copyright, such as the _Copyright Handbook_, by by Donald E. Johnston. Ebay is a somewhat different situation also involving a contract--the user's agreement. As far as I know, you can put whatever restrictions you want in a contract as long as they don't violate the law (and it looks to me like ebay's contract and policies were written by their lawyers, who ought to know). For example, ebay's user contract can put restrictions on use of their site that might not necessarily be included in another auction's web site contract. When you use ebay, you are bound by their contract/agreement, not by someone else's, or by what you personally think is "fair." Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 14:00:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27993 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29756; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16031 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:14:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16026 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:14:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA03928 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3800E5E8.3AB5271B@best.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:15:52 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > Also, I am happy to give full attribution to the source--does this change > things any? I see I forgot to answer this question. The copyright owner has the right to control publication of and charge payment for their work. Publishing their work without their explicit and prior permission is a copyright violation regardless of whether you give credit for it. If you ask their permission and they say, "Yes, if you give me credit in such-and-such form," then that credit is part of your contract/agreement with them, but it is not strictly speaking a copyright issue. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 15:00:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28053 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04597; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21379 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:10:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21370 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA10437; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3800F312.844262BC@best.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:12:02 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Melanie Schuessler , Historic Costume Mailing List Subject: Re: H-COST: prints in private collections References: <37FCCAA8.B37CCB3@best.com> <37FD5029.247F@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Thanks for sharing your expertise on this matter. Hopefully it will, by > informing us of what is legal, help us to respect and adhere to the > copyright laws. If you should ever come across a good book on internet > copyright, I hope that you will share it with the list, as this seems to be > an issue for a number of us. > > Thanks, > Melanie OK, but the Internet is just another publishing medium. The real problem is that currently many people putting material on the Internet are not fully aware of the basic copyright laws. I think that will change eventually, but it hasn't yet. Anyway if you want to use material, someone else has published on the net, ask their permission. If you are wondering if _they_ are publishing it legally, I'd recommend asking them relevant questions, such as "Where did you get this material?" "The date on the book you scanned that from indicates the book may still be copyrighted; did you verify that the copyright has expired?" "Can you put me in touch with the copyright holder so I can ask their permission to use this material?" etc. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 16:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28145 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15124; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00788 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:52:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00780 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11934 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38010B3C.F1AAB3FD@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:55:08 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: hoop skirts References: <00e701bf127e$3c1bd720$0be6fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas AlterYears has hoops for less than $65. CS104 - 4 wire no ruffles use for Tudor and Elizabethan, 135" circumference is available in white for $40 or black or red for $45. CS105 - 5 wire no ruffle, use for late 1850's-1860's, 150" circumference in the same three colors is $45-$50. CS112 - 6 wire no ruffles, dome-shaped, use for 1850's, 150" circumference, same three colors is $50-$55. Their shop is in Pasadena, California, but their catalog ships to other places. They also have 18th century full court panniers and 1860's elliptical. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 18:54:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28500 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26764; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14814 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:08:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from stout.entertain.com (root@stout.entertain.com [199.45.153.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14808 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xpert.net (ppp002.xpert.net [204.144.221.50]) by stout.entertain.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA19331 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <38010507.66DD8637@xpert.net> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:28:39 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lee X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 References: <19990919194331.93863.qmail@hotmail.com> <37E549C8.D25DC4E4@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lee Hi, Sorry to be posting so late on this subject, but it took me a while to catch up on some back e-mail due to a very busy life right now. There is a wedding dress pattern, Simplicity 6751, that is basically a 12-gore cotehardie pattern needing minor changes (such as lengthen the sleeves full length, change necklie to scoop instead of V, change zipper to buttons, etc). Someone from the Denver area found and used this pattern, and has a picture in one of her books that looks like it could document the use of 3 panels per quarter-body (don't remember which one, one of the madonna paintings that you can see the "princess" seams, 2 of them, on the front right quarter). I have also found one of the "It's so Easy" simplicity patterns for a modern day dress, 8-gore with princess seams, that was easily adapted to a cotehardie pattern (take out zipper, lengthen pieces about a foot or so depending on height, widen the 'flair' of the skirt starting at the hips) but i don't remember the number offhand -- I am currently using 'wastecloth' pattern pieces copied from the paper, which I put away somewhere. If I find the pattern envelope, I will post the number (if people are interested). Richenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 21:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28671 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:20:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09174; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04351 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:26:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04344 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.249] (ip249.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.249]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA29965 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910110217.WAA29965@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:26:17 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais The biggest problem with canned air is that if the can has been shaken or is not perfectly vertical the can will dispense propellant along with the air into the machine. The propellant will in many years pit the parts. In professional repair shops we use an air tank that puts out a much higher power jet of air (120 pounds) but is safe because there is no propellant. We refill the tank when it gets low, or some huge shops simply have a compressor. Try this to prove it to yourself. Shake your can of air and *poof* it on your hand. Then spray it out into the air a time or two and do it again. You shuld feel a _wet_ cold burst the first time, simply air the second. Take out as much lint and gunk as possible with a paper towel or mini-vacuum before you use the air, and it minimizes the lint getting into where you don't want it (like foofed back into your face). Remember there can be needle tips or pin tips if you've had collisions, so you don't want those flying up into your eyes. I just had a machine brought to me with so much lint under the needle plate that the feed dogs couldn't rise at all - she thought she had jammed her machine for good. Lisee Beth wrote: > >-Poster: "Beth" > >> >> One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so >> that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the >> machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you >> put the bobbin back in. > >Back when the canned air was first really "big" a sewing machine repairman > a good one) told me never to use it. Canned air would push a certain amount >of lint & dirt deeper into the machine, eventually causing more problems. I >use the same small vacuum attachments as I use for my computer to clean my >machines. > >Beth > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 21:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28687 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:37:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10500; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07025 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:51:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07015 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:50:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Elysant@aol.com Received: from Elysant@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LJQa19934 (4566) for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.27ee6220.2532aa6f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:50:23 EDT Subject: H-COST: Simplicity To: H-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elysant@aol.com -Poster: >I have also found one of the "It's so Easy" simplicity patterns for a modern day >dress, 8-gore with princess seams, that was easily adapted to a cotehardie >pattern (take out zipper, lengthen pieces about a foot or so depending on height, >widen the 'flair' of the skirt starting at the hips) but i don't remember the >number offhand -- I am currently using 'wastecloth' pattern pieces copied from >the paper, which I put away somewhere. If I find the pattern envelope, I will >post the number (if people are interested). Could you please? Thanks Elysant _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 10 22:57:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28851 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17644; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16066 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:09:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16057 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-95.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.95]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA28345 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991011000641.00a03100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:06:41 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: They've labeled us! - humour In-Reply-To: <002e01bf12b8$ea2c08a0$be56accf@e4c2n6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, I just got this on another e-list I'm on and thought that most of you are fellow sufferers. Cheers, Danielle >--------- Begin forwarded message ---------- >The Center for Disease Control in Atlanta today announced the >identification of a new disease. Tentatively named Acquired Needlework >Syndrome, the disease is highly infectious. Scientists at CDC say the >disease is caused by a bacillus called staphloaiguille because of its >needle-like shape. Under the microscope the bacillus is long and slender >with a long narrow opening at one end, from which trail thread-like >cilia. > >Symptoms of the disease include feverish babbling of letters such as DMC, >TW, LOL, ROFL and talking about invisible friends such as Teresa, Paula, >Robert, Karen, etc. At first sufferers appear to be taking an unusual >interest in Verdi operas, while more advanced cases develop wanderlust, >especially wishing to travel to Edinburgh, Dublin, and Belfast. Other >symptoms include feverish buying and storing of woven goods and printed >pamphlets, and a 'smoking' credit card. The disease is especially >dangerous because it cannot only be passed along directly from one >infected individual to another, but documented cases have been found >where the sufferer caught the disease from reading a >magazine, or attending a craft show. > >The CDC says that while the disease is especially prevalent in North >America, cases have been found in every country on the globe. Family >members should be aware that while the disease may occasionally enter >remission, it is at present incurable. > >The patient should be given a quiet corner with a comfortable chair and >good lighting. Interruptions should be minimized. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 06:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25647 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12237; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA10699 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:41:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10694 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:41:49 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ULLa17057 (3871) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4f6d46f6.253326f3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:41:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1812Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I'm sorry I missed the initial inquiry about War of 1812 patterns. This is my special area of interest, and I have done quite a bit of research in the area. I would be glad to share with anyone with an interest in this area. Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 06:31:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25653 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12483; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11035 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:46:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11026 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:46:26 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6USDygTNW_ (3871) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3c4274f7.253327f0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:45:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk brocade To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Of course silk brocades were coming from China, as well as Italy. But my feeling is that most of the modern silk brocades (or part silk--most of them are primarily acetate) just look TOO oriental. Even though "Chinoiserie" was popular in the mid 18th century, the patterns did not look like today's brocades. I have been successful in finding one real silk brocade, from Korea, that has a nice baroque-style design. Alas, there was only enough for an open robe--no petticoat. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 07:25:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25710 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15306; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA15298 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:39:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15292 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.235] (ip235.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.235]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11786 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910111232.IAA11786@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:43:05 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais The biggest problem with canned air is that if the can has been shaken or is not perfectly vertical the can will dispense propellant along with the air into the machine. The propellant will in many years pit the parts. In professional repair shops we use an air tank that puts out a much higher power jet of air (120 pounds) but is safe because there is no propellant. We refill the tank when it gets low, or some huge shops simply have a compressor. Try this to prove it to yourself. Shake your can of air and *poof* it on your hand. Then spray it out into the air a time or two and do it again. You shuld feel a _wet_ cold burst the first time, simply air the second. Take out as much lint and gunk as possible with a paper towel or mini-vacuum before you use the air, and it minimizes the lint getting into where you don't want it (like foofed back into your face). Remember there can be needle tips or pin tips if you've had collisions, so you don't want those flying up into your eyes. I just had a machine brought to me with so much lint under the needle plate that the feed dogs couldn't rise at all - she thought she had jammed her machine for good. Lisee Beth wrote: > >-Poster: "Beth" > >> >> One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so >> that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the >> machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you >> put the bobbin back in. > >Back when the canned air was first really "big" a sewing machine repairman > a good one) told me never to use it. Canned air would push a certain amount >of lint & dirt deeper into the machine, eventually causing more problems. I >use the same small vacuum attachments as I use for my computer to clean my >machines. > >Beth > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 09:24:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25969 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26333; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01607 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:37:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01593 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from airmail.net from [207.136.20.147] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Mon, 11 Oct 99 09:37:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3801F5C7.6B7AF812@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:35:51 -0500 From: Megan & David Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions References: <19991008053612.9532.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan & David Schmidt (laughing quietly to myself....) does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer (where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? All I could think of is an archeological dig at a waste water plant where one centuries from now, they examined all the clothing that was flushed down the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. Jonna Hayden wrote:Clothing Re: Past > Fine Patterns for the Historical Sewer. > > (I must be hungry. . .) > > Jonna > > _ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 10:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26032 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:00:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03093; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10812 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:14:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10789 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p16.directcon.net [206.170.184.115]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22293 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:12:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:12:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199910111512.IAA22293@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:35 AM 10/11/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > >(laughing quietly to myself....) >does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer >(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? All I >could think of is an archeological dig at a waste water plant where one >centuries from now, they examined all the clothing that was flushed down >the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. Maybe they could solve the mystery of Where The Socks Go.... Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 10:49:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26149 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10710; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20768 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:52:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20761 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA15232; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3802084D.D7AF26CF@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:54:54 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Found it References: <000301bf1279$49bb07c0$ac0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > but it does cast doubt on the rather broad statement > inferring the winding thing is so ridiculous that nobody > would have worn it attitude. I haven't seen anyone with *this* attitude. It certainly isn't mine. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 12:00:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26209 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22065; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11843 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:12:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11828 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:14:54 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: Spanish 18th century Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:10:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bf140b$93766970$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910091703.LAA11154@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > Can anyone direct me to pictures of traditional Spanish clothing from the > 18th century? I am especially looking for costume ideas for > a Don Juan type charater. Goya paintings at the Prado, Madrid. (Not the black pictures; the dancers, the picnics, the lovers.) --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." h-costume@indra.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 12:12:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26220 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:11:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24234; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15205 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:25:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15197 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA19128; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38021E19.84D7585A@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:27:54 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman References: <199910100502.XAA18520@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and > red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/religion/altar/ > Click on - Diptych1.jpg and then on Donne.jpg. She is also in another painting, The Marriage of St. Catherine, I'm not sure that it's even Memling. This one I've seen in the Velvet book by Fabrizzio. The nicest of them all I think. Exact same dress and surcote. Exact. Amazing. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 12:22:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26226 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25889; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17948 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:36:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17936 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:36:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RYQ0US3S2 (3890) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.44b1b687.253379e2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:35:30 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: hoop skirts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com The cheapest hoops I've found are from chivalry sports, only $32.95. Best for early civil war or elizabethan. Check them out at: http://renstore.com/undergarb.sh tml Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 13:15:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26323 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03113; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00288 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:28:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00272 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23038 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:36:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06027 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:36:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:36:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman In-Reply-To: <199910100502.XAA18520@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and > red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. Memling placed the same St. Catherine in the Donne Triptych (1479, London, National Gallery), the altarpiece for the Hospital of St. John in Bruges (commissioned 1474, completed 1479, still in Bruges, where the hospital now houses the Memling Museum), and a smaller Virgin & Child with Saints at the Metropolitan Museum in New York (1480). The latter two pieces depict the "mystic marriage" of St. Catherine. I'm guessing that these are the same three paintings you're mentioning. The St. John altarpiece was generally considered Memling's finest work and would have been seen by anyone coming to Bruges at that time. Memling was clearly very busy in the late 1470s, and it was quite routine at any major painter's studio for donors to come in and say "I want something just like X, but put in me and my family for the donors, and change the saints on the wings to my patron saints." Or, "I can't afford a triptych. I'd like just a panel, and squeeze me in on the side." That's probably the case with the New York St. Catherine, which is almost a direct copy of the center panel of the St. John altarpiece. In making the copy, Memling removed two saints (St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangalist, both patrons of the hospital), added a donor (off to the left, replacing a sheep), and tripled the size of St. Barbara's tower (presumably to balance the new donor compositionally -- Memling liked symmetry). He retained the Virgin, Saints Catherine and Barbara, and two musical angels. Not only are the Catherines identical, but so are the Barbaras (in green with a brown mantle). For the Donne triptych, he made additional changes in the composition, mostly to place Donne, his wife, and their daughter directly in the front, as central figures worshipping Mary. The mystic marriage is no longer depicted, which frees Saints Catherine and Barbara to be moved behind, escorting the Donne family, to the positions formerly occupied by the Saints John & John. There are some other changes (details of the canopy, the instruments carried by the angels). Barbara gets pin-on sleeves to her green dress, and the virgin gets a brighter blue underdress. One thing that's important to remember about Catherine's sideless surcote is that it was part of her iconography, not a representation of anything worn in the 1470s. I have a lecture on this that's too long to repeat here, but suffice it to say that the sideless surcote went out of fashion almost a century earlier, having become reserved for royal ceremonial use, and became frozen in art to depict ancient queens, particularly royal saints, such as Catherine and Ursula. I've collected hundreds of St. Catherines, and something like 90 percent of them are in sideless surcotes; it was as much of an identifier for her as the wheel, crown, and sword. By the time Memling and his contemporaries were painting Catherine, painting styles were much more realistic than they were when sideless surcotes were actually worn, and clothing construction methods had changed considerably. Lacking any direct examples of *real* sideless surcotes, they apparently painted these dresses as they assumed they would be made if sewn by tailors of their own day, which bears little resemblance to the way they had actually been made in the later 1300s for real people. I would not be surprised if Memling had the dress made up as a costume for his model, in which case it would have been easy enough to re-use -- or he could have done it from imagination and then repainted it from the previous paintings. > OK, why is Mary Magdelene portrayed as having sleeves that are often red or > another color different from the dress? A red dress or sleeves is iconographically associated with Mary Magdalene, the former prostitute, as is exotic or flashy clothing. She was one of the few saints that artists could legitimately dress sexy, and the only one of those who routinely appears in scenes of Christ's life, so they "went to town" with her. That tendency increased over the course of the 1400s. Her noticable presence and bright colors were very useful compositionally, to balance other elements of the painting or to draw the eye in certain directions. I've collected lots of Mary Magdalenes over the years too, and if you place the Flemish depictions in a chronological line, you can clearly trace her increasingly prominent placement in the compositions, as well as increasing flashiness of her dress. (Yeah, it's another lecture.) The most popular female Saints in the Middle Ages, after the Virgin Mary of course, were Catherine and Mary Magdalene, so it's easy to find examples, and artists had plenty of reason to codify their appearance for easy identification -- and lots of opportunity to play with them. > Also who was Sisamnes? There is a graphic painting of him being flayed in > my new fabulous (OK, I probably paid too much for it) Bruges book. The > painting is called The Justice of Cambyses. Again the people have that > realistic look about them, even the guy being flayed. I wasn't sure if it > was allegorical in nature. Not allegory so much as moral tale. This is a pair of panel paintings commissioned from Gerard David in 1498 for the alderman's room of the Bruges City Hall. They now reside in the Groening Museum (just down the street from the Memling Museum, and another good reason to visit Bruges, along with lace and waffles). Sisamnes was a Persian judge who did some heinous crime (I think took a bribe), and who was punished by being flayed alive. The Bruges alderman chose that subject for their meeting hall as a reminder for the city fathers to resist corruption. I could find further details somewhere if someone needs them. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 14:21:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26538 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13902; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15534 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:33:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15524 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991011193309.CBKA2683.gigi@chilly.excite.com> for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:33:09 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions Message-Id: <939670399.24395.797@excite.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:33:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > (laughing quietly to myself....) > does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer > (where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? Which is exactly why I spell the one having to do with spot-welding fabric together sew-er! > All I > could think of is an archeological dig at a waste water plant where one > centuries from now, they examined all the clothing that was flushed down > the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. And how else are those who come after us to really know our tastes in fashion? (Or lack thereof . . .) If it weren't for middins and the like, we'd have nothing to go by for . . . oh . . . lots of stuff that's slipped my tiny mind at the moment! (The bananna in the Elizabethan privvy does spring to the fore, however . . . strange . . . ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 14:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26639 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19539; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25864 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:06:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25848 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA25624; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380243BF.DA4AC9A7@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:08:31 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: was it this list? References: <199910101826.MAA11007@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/memling/portrait/ > Then click on woman-lo.jpg or portinar.jpg > What is the consensus on the collars on the dresses? Are they sewn as a > part of the dress or attached separately? The collars in these two > portraits look to be made of fur and look as if they may be attached > separately Yes they are made of fur, the portraits are wonderful. I would guess that the gowns are lined and that the collar folds back or is attached in some way. If you look at the sleeves you will see a little bit of fur peeking out from inside the gown. This indicates to me that the gowns are lined. But having never actually seen one extant, I am only guessing. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 16:35:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26898 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:35:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05371; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21854 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:47:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21831 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-150-189.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.150.189]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA10684 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004f01bf1432$cb223440$bd963018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0B5@ACT02EXC001> <37FAD891.2E115AB0@mediaone.net> Subject: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:51:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF1411.4337E780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF1411.4337E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry that this is off the subject, but I have tried to unsubscribe from = the list and subscribe with my new email address unsuccessfully. I = followed the exact instructions given from my first error message. I = have tried it about 3 times. I have written to the owner at this = address majordomo-owner@indra.com=20 with no response. Can someone email me privately and help me figure = this out? I had no problem with any other list I am on. =20 Thanks, Erica ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF1411.4337E780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =005=00.=000=000=00.=002=000=001=004=00.=002=001=000=00"=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 = =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00S=00o=00r=00r=00y=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00 = =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00i=00s=00 =00o=00f=00f=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 = =00s=00u=00b=00j=00e=00c=00t=00,=00 =00b=00u=00t=00 =00I=00 = =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00t=00o=00 = =00u=00n=00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 = =00=0D=00=0A= =00t=00h=00e=00 =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 = =00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00m=00y=00 = =00n=00e=00w=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00 = =00u=00n=00s=00u=00c=00c=00e=00s=00s=00f=00u=00l=00l=00y=00.=00&=00n=00b=00= s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00f=00o=00l=00l=00o=00w=00e=00d=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 = =00e=00x=00a=00c=00t=00 = =00i=00n=00s=00t=00r=00u=00c=00t=00i=00o=00n=00s=00 = =00g=00i=00v=00e=00n=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00m=00y=00 = =00f=00i=00r=00s=00t=00 =00e=00r=00r=00o=00r=00 = =00m=00e=00s=00s=00a=00g=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 = =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00i=00t=00 =00a=00b=00o=00u=00t=00 =003=00 = =00t=00i=00m=00e=00s=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 = =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00w=00r=00i=00t=00t=00e=00n=00 =00t=00o=00 = =00t=00h=00e=00 =00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00 =00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 = =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00A=00 = =00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00m=00a=00i=00l=00t=00o=00:=00m=00a=00j=00o=00= r=00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00i=00n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c= =00o=00m=00 = =00"=00>=00m=00a=00j=00o=00r=00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00= i=00n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00A=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00n=00o=00 = =00r=00e=00s=00p=00o=00n=00s=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00C=00a=00n=00 =00s=00o=00m=00e=00o=00n=00e=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 = =00m=00e=00 =00p=00r=00i=00v=00a=00t=00e=00l=00y=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 = =00h=00e=00l=00p=00 =00m=00e=00 =00f=00i=00g=00u=00r=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00o=00u=00t=00?=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 = =00h=00a=00d=00 =00n=00o=00 =00p=00r=00o=00b=00l=00e=00m=00 = =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00a=00n=00y=00 =00o=00t=00h=00e=00r=00 = =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00I=00 =00a=00m=00 = =00o=00n=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00T=00h=00a=00n=00k=00s=00,=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00E=00r=00i=00c=00a=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF1411.4337E780-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 16:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26962 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08268; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27792 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:13:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA27775 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:12:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1272442472==_ma============" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004f01bf1432$cb223440$bd963018@pbc.adelphia.net> References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0B5@ACT02EXC001> <37FAD891.2E115AB0@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:13:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward --============_-1272442472==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00= =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00= D=00 >=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =004=00.=000=00 =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00= n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00 =00 >=00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00 =00 =00<=00M=00E=00T=00= A=00 >=00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00l= =00;=00 =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"= =00 >=00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t= =00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00 =00 =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 >=00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =005=00.= =000=000=00.=002=000=001=004=00.=002=001=000=00"=00 >=00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00 =00 =00<= =00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00 =00 >=00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00 =00 =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 =00b=00g=00C=00= o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00 =00 >=00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00S=00o=00r=00r=00y=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00= i=00s=00 =00i=00s=00 =00o=00f=00f=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 >=00s=00u=00b=00j=00e=00c=00t=00,=00 =00b=00u=00t=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00= e=00 =00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00t=00o=00 >=00u=00n=00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00 =00= =00t=00h=00e=00 =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 >=00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00m=00y=00= =00n=00e=00w=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00 >=00u=00n=00s=00u=00c=00c=00e=00s=00s=00f=00u=00l=00l=00y=00.=00&=00n=00b=00= s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00 =00 =00f=00o=00l=00l=00o=00w=00e=00d=00 >=00t=00h=00e=00 =00e=00x=00a=00c=00t=00 =00i=00n=00s=00t=00r=00u=00c=00t=00= i=00o=00n=00s=00 =00g=00i=00v=00e=00n=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00m=00y=00 >=00f=00i=00r=00s=00t=00 =00e=00r=00r=00o=00r=00 =00m=00e=00s=00s=00a=00g=00= e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00 =00 >=00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00i=00t=00 =00a=00b=00o=00u=00t=00 =003=00 =00t=00= i=00m=00e=00s=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 >=00w=00r=00i=00t=00t=00e=00n=00 =00t=00o=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00o=00w=00n=00= e=00r=00 =00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 >=00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00= V=00>=00<=00A=00 >=00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00m=00a=00i=00l=00t=00o=00:=00m=00a=00j=00o=00r= =00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00i=00n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c=00o= =00m=00 =00" >=00>=00m=00a=00j=00o=00r=00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00i=00= n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00 =00 =00 >=00<=00/=00A=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00w=00= i=00t=00h=00 =00n=00o=00 >=00r=00e=00s=00p=00o=00n=00s=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00C=00a=00= n=00 =00s=00o=00m=00e=00o=00n=00e=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00m=00e=00 >=00p=00r=00i=00v=00a=00t=00e=00l=00y=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00h=00e=00l=00p=00= =00m=00e=00 =00f=00i=00g=00u=00r=00e=00 =00 =00 =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 >=00o=00u=00t=00?=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00d=00 =00n=00= o=00 =00p=00r=00o=00b=00l=00e=00m=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00a=00n=00y=00 >=00o=00t=00h=00e=00r=00 =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00I=00 =00a=00m=00 =00o=00n=00= =2E=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 >=00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 >=00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00T=00h=00a=00n=00k=00s=00,=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00= =00 >=00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00E=00r=00i=00c=00a=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00 =00 =00 Did anyone get this? I got garbage and the title sounds desperate. LynnD --============_-1272442472==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =00= P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =004= =00.=000=00 =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =00 =00<<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x= =00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00l=00;=00 =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t= =00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =005=00.= =000=000=00.=002=000=001=004=00.=002=001=000=00"=00 =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00 =00 =00<<= =00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 =00b=00g=00C= =00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00S=00o=00r=00r=00y=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00= i=00s=00 =00i=00s=00 =00o=00f=00f=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00s=00u=00b=00j=00e=00c=00t=00,=00 =00b=00u=00t=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e= =00 =00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00t=00o=00 =00u=00n=00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00 =00= =00t=00h=00e=00 =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00s=00u=00b=00s=00c=00r=00i=00b=00e=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00m=00y=00= =00n=00e=00w=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00 =00u=00n=00s=00u=00c=00c=00e=00s=00s=00f=00u=00l=00l=00y=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s= =00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00 =00 =00f=00o=00l=00l=00o=00w=00e=00d=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00e=00x=00a=00c=00t=00 =00i=00n=00s=00t=00r=00u=00c=00t=00i= =00o=00n=00s=00 =00g=00i=00v=00e=00n=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00m=00y=00 =00f=00i=00r=00s=00t=00 =00e=00r=00r=00o=00r=00 =00m=00e=00s=00s= =00a=00g=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00 =00 =00t=00r=00i=00e=00d=00 =00i=00t=00 =00a=00b=00o= =00u=00t=00 =003=00 =00t=00i=00m=00e=00s=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e= =00 =00w=00r=00i=00t=00t=00e=00n=00 =00t=00o=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00 =00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e= =00s=00s=00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<<=00A=00 =00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00m=00a=00i=00l=00t=00o=00:=00m=00a=00j=00o=00r= =00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00i=00n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c=00o= =00m=00 =00"=00>=00m=00a=00j=00o=00r=00d=00o=00m=00o=00-=00o=00w=00n=00e=00r=00@=00i= =00n=00d=00r=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00 =00 =00 =00<<=00/=00A=00>=00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00w= =00i=00t=00h=00 =00n=00o=00 =00r=00e=00s=00p=00o=00n=00s=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00C=00a=00n= =00 =00s=00o=00m=00e=00o=00n=00e=00 =00e=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00m=00e=00 =00p=00r=00i=00v=00a=00t=00e=00l=00y=00 =00a=00n=00d=00= =00h=00e=00l=00p=00 =00m=00e=00 =00f=00i=00g=00u=00r=00e=00 =00 =00 =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00o=00u=00t=00?=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00= =00h=00a=00d=00 =00n=00o=00 =00p=00r=00o=00b=00l=00e=00m=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00a=00n=00y=00 =00o=00t=00h=00e=00r=00 =00l=00i=00s=00t= =00 =00I=00 =00a=00m=00 =00o=00n=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p= =00;=00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00T=00h=00a=00n=00k=00s=00,=00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>= =00 =00 =00<<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00E=00r=00i=00c=00a=00<<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<<=00/= =00B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00 =00 =00 Did anyone get this? I got garbage and the title sounds desperate. LynnD --============_-1272442472==_ma============-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:01:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26973 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08664; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28799 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:16:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28777 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11563 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:21:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:21:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA28780 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: --clipped a bunch of garbage-- > ><DIV>Erica</DIV></BODY></HTML> > > Did anyone get this? I got garbage and the title sounds desperate. I got it. The message was: Sorry that this is off the subject, but I have tried to unsubscribe from the list and subscribe with my new email address unsuccessfully. I followed the exact instructions given from my first error message. I have tried it about 3 times. I have written to the owner at this address majordomo-owner@indra.com with no response. Can someone email me privately and help me figure this out? I had no problem with any other list I am on. I didn't reply, as I have no idea what is wrong. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:04:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26978 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:04:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09054; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29736 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:20:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29725 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA01196; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38026321.10699E3C@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:22:25 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis References: <617939F93346D1119D0E0060B01B0B56019AC0B5@ACT02EXC001> <37FAD891.2E115AB0@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris I have received several posts over the weeks from that email address with the exact same strange letters. FWIW, Cynthia > ÿþ< > > Did anyone get this? I got garbage and the title sounds desperate. > > LynnD -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:08:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26993 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:08:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09496; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00668 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:23:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00650 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dfenwick (rno-max7-44.gbis.net [207.228.61.236]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11224 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <010a01bf1437$39de9af0$fe0110ac@akc.state.nv.us> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:23:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > I didn't reply, as I have no idea what is wrong. > Emma After seeing the preious mesage with all the markup in it, I am willing to bet the problem is that she is not sending the list commands in plain text. Dan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27004 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11421; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03427 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:35:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03393 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA01844; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3802668E.4A55CFCB@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:37:03 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb , Historic Needlework Subject: H-COST: So Proud! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Please pardon the cross postings but I'm so happy! Just have to brag on my friend Lady Liadain, one of our list friends. She is the new Grand Champion of the Arts and Sciences for the Kingdom of the Outlands. Her entry was an absolutely lovely blackworked man's shirt. Completely hand sewn in linen with linen thread. Her documentation was impeccable, the design her own and none too easy, the seams incrediblely finished, all french seams with a small pulled work with each stitch. Exquisite. She'll try to pass some of the kudos off on me, but believe me the Huzzah's go to her and her alone. Cynthia/Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27028 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:41:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14718; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:57:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08175 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:56:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08160 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA02788; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38026BB3.2A853A65@serv.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:59:00 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: [Fwd: H-COST: Same Woman] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > Which Velvet book? Who's Fabrizzio? (besides the author) > > Always on the hunt for new books... > > Hope this works. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962798517/qid=939682490/sr=1-6/002-4265448-3155432 -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:54:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27038 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:54:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16121; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11048 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:09:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11035 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA01154 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:39:12 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA05256; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:39:12 +0930 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:39:11 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis In-Reply-To: <010a01bf1437$39de9af0$fe0110ac@akc.state.nv.us> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Dan Fenwick wrote: > > -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > > > I didn't reply, as I have no idea what is wrong. > > Emma > > After seeing the preious mesage with all the markup in it, I am willing to > bet the problem is that she is not sending the list commands in plain text. > Yes, there have been quite a few posts to the list lately that haven't been in plain text (or non-ASCII), which is a pain in the proverbial. My mail reader can translate such things (with the application viewer!) but it's a nuisance and I'm tempted not to bother...Please switch to plain text! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 18:51:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27202 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22261; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20248 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:06:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20233 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:06:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SZN25GTP_ (4457) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bbf933e9.2533d53c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:05:16 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Robin's lectures To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Wow! I wish I could hear your lectures, Robin. I like that St. Catherine sideless surcote, too bad it's not real. I knew it was not right chronologically, but I do like the way it looks. Not right at all, though, huh? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 19:11:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27252 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:11:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24897; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23190 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:27:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23184 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10066 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05786 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004701bf144a$032428a0$99befea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:27:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > >(laughing quietly to myself....) >does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer >(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? All I >could think of is an archeological dig at a waste water plant where one >centuries from now, they examined all the clothing that was flushed down >the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. Yes, that is why I always write seamstress instead. It isn't as offensive to the ears. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 20:40:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27424 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:40:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08504; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06150 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:55:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06136 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.158] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11ar9y-000124-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:55:26 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:52:21 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions In-Reply-To: <3801F5C7.6B7AF812@airmail.net> References: <19991008053612.9532.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:35 AM 10/11/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > >(laughing quietly to myself....) >does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer >(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? Not really, but sewer is not a term I'd use for naming a person who sews. :-) Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 20:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27431 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08621; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06328 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:56:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06315 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (216-164-220-117.s117.tnt5.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.220.117]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17176 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008401bf144e$a1049560$75dca4d8@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <010a01bf1437$39de9af0$fe0110ac@akc.state.nv.us> Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:10:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" I, too, have been trying desperately to get OFF this list. I feel like the old woman in the fairytale about the little pot that kept making porridge - STOP little pot, STOP! A computer guru came to my house and couldn't get me off. She, at least, explained to me that Major Domo wasn't a person.... I really enjoy reading the great discussions on this list, but I need to move it to another address for obvious reasons. If anybody knows anything, please help. Thanks! PS I don't know what "plain text" is. Why wouldn't one have it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Fenwick To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 6:23 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Off-the-subject crisis > > -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > > > I didn't reply, as I have no idea what is wrong. > > Emma > > After seeing the preious mesage with all the markup in it, I am willing to > bet the problem is that she is not sending the list commands in plain text. > > Dan > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 20:49:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27459 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:49:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09766; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07925 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:04:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07918 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (216-164-220-117.s117.tnt5.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.220.117]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA21452 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009201bf144f$b891d480$75dca4d8@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <199910111232.IAA11786@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:18:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" I have greatly appreciated the sewing machine maintenance information from Elisee, who seems to know of what she speaks. I've tried to find the Groz-Beckert or Sullivan's sewing machine needles she recommended. Clothilde - no, Nancy's Notions - no, Greenberg&Hammer - no, Atlanta Thread - no, Newark Dressmaker Supply - no. Where can I get them? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 9:43 AM Subject: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines > > -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais > > The biggest problem with canned air is that if the can has been shaken or > is not perfectly vertical the can will dispense propellant along with the > air into the machine. The propellant will in many years pit the parts. > In professional repair shops we use an air tank that puts out a much > higher power jet of air (120 pounds) but is safe because there is no > propellant. We refill the tank when it gets low, or some huge shops > simply have a compressor. > > Try this to prove it to yourself. Shake your can of air and *poof* it on > your hand. Then spray it out into the air a time or two and do it again. > You shuld feel a _wet_ cold burst the first time, simply air the second. > > > Take out as much lint and gunk as possible with a paper towel or > mini-vacuum before you use the air, and it minimizes the lint getting > into where you don't want it (like foofed back into your face). Remember > there can be needle tips or pin tips if you've had collisions, so you > don't want those flying up into your eyes. > > I just had a machine brought to me with so much lint under the needle > plate that the feed dogs couldn't rise at all - she thought she had > jammed her machine for good. > > Lisee > > Beth wrote: > > > > >-Poster: "Beth" > > > >> > >> One of the things I do is keep a can of compressed air by the machine so > >> that every time I change the bobbin I remember to clean out the > >> machine. It's easy to just 'spritz' the bobbin compartment before you > >> put the bobbin back in. > > > >Back when the canned air was first really "big" a sewing machine repairman > > a good one) told me never to use it. Canned air would push a certain amount > >of lint & dirt deeper into the machine, eventually causing more problems. I > >use the same small vacuum attachments as I use for my computer to clean my > >machines. > > > >Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 21:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27469 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:00:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11293; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09382 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:15:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09344 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00494 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:23:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09336 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:23:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:23:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Robin's lectures In-Reply-To: <0.bbf933e9.2533d53c@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > Wow! I wish I could hear your lectures, Robin. Me too. It would save me a lot of typing ;-) I've done most of these at Kalamazoo over the last dozen or so years. Some of them required elaborate display that would be hard to reproduce, and some were done tandem with my partner Verna Rutz. But a few of them can stand alone, and I occasionally re-run those for other groups. I can't do this much, as my travel time is limited (I work, and I have two small children). It's also awkward that the gowns I use for visual display are scattered to the four winds, in the possession of various people who have been kind enough to serve as models. Audiences that are more interested in construction usually want to see fully made costumes, not just a slide show. I'm hoping to re-make a few more outfits for myself in future, so I can tour more of the talks without having to depend on people's good nature to UPS me my display materials. > I like that St. Catherine sideless surcote, too bad it's not real. I > knew it was not right chronologically, but I do like the way it looks. > Not right at all, though, huh? Not at all. In fact, it might not even be make-able; in practice, if you cut the bodice like that, the heavy skirt will pull the side openings out of shape. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 21:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27517 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:37:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15578; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:53:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14782 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:52:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14759 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-85.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.85]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id MAA13564 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:52:34 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910120252.MAA13564@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:22:19 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" In some art forms, Flemmish & etc from my very dulled memory, an exposed breast was a signification of maidenhood - for instance, the Madonna is often portrayed with one hanging out. Oh, for a return to ye olden dayes! -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:04:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27554 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18979; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18671 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:18:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18663 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:18:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] (58-135.netwurx.net [209.207.58.135]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA17791 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:18:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910120252.MAA13564@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:18:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > >In some art forms, Flemmish & etc from my very dulled memory, an exposed >breast was a signification of maidenhood - for instance, the Madonna is >often portrayed with one hanging out. > >Oh, for a return to ye olden dayes! :) There's a detailed discussion of single bare-breastedness (that is, one breast showing) in art in Anne Hollander's _Seeing Through Clothes_. She traces it from Greek statuary to 14th Madonnas through the 18th century and analyzes its changing significance. For Greeks, fashion, for Madonnas, maternity, for later periods sensuality and even "a look of instability, useful for connoting terror or license or devotional zeal." (!) (p. 191) I haven't re-read the whole section, but the entire book is very intriguing--Hollander analyzes through art history different ways of portraying the body, dressed and undressed, and how those related to each other and the viewers in each context. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27564 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19155; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18802 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18796 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.158] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11asTO-0002A3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:19:34 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:16:29 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Same Woman] In-Reply-To: <38026BB3.2A853A65@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 03:59 PM 10/11/1999 -0700, you wrote: -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Which Velvet book? That one, I cannot help with. Who's Fabrizzio? Not an author, one of those Italian artists...Ren., I believe. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27602 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:10:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20218; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19803 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:26:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19788 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.158] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11asZj-0002m3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:26:07 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:23:01 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Same Woman] In-Reply-To: <38026BB3.2A853A65@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 03:59 PM 10/11/1999 -0700, you wrote: -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Which Velvet book? Who's Fabrizzio? (besides the author) >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962798517/qid=939682490/sr=1-6/002-4 265448-3155432 My apologies to Merouda/Cynthia et al. I should have clicked first and typed after. There was an artist named Fabrizzio, however. :-) The url takes one to the book's biblio info and cites the author as Fabrizio de Marinis. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27634 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23262; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23555 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:51:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA23547 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910120351.VAA23547@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 9214 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 21:51:52 -0600 Received: from ts25-30.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.45) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 21:51:52 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:59:22 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Woo Woo!!! Thank you Robin!!!! Kathlene > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > > On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > > > Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and > > red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. > > Memling placed the same St. Catherine in the Donne Triptych (1479, London, > National Gallery), the altarpiece for the Hospital of St. John in Bruges > (commissioned 1474, completed 1479, still in Bruges, where the hospital > now houses the Memling Museum), and a smaller Virgin & Child with Saints > at the Metropolitan Museum in New York (1480). The latter two pieces > depict the "mystic marriage" of St. Catherine. I'm guessing that these are > the same three paintings you're mentioning. > > The St. John altarpiece was generally considered Memling's finest work and > would have been seen by anyone coming to Bruges at that time. Memling was > clearly very busy in the late 1470s, and it was quite routine at any major > painter's studio for donors to come in and say "I want something just like > X, but put in me and my family for the donors, and change the saints on > the wings to my patron saints." Or, "I can't afford a triptych. I'd like > just a panel, and squeeze me in on the side." That's probably the case > with the New York St. Catherine, which is almost a direct copy of the > center panel of the St. John altarpiece. In making the copy, Memling > removed two saints (St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangalist, both > patrons of the hospital), added a donor (off to the left, replacing a > sheep), and tripled the size of St. Barbara's tower (presumably to balance > the new donor compositionally -- Memling liked symmetry). He retained the > Virgin, Saints Catherine and Barbara, and two musical angels. Not only are > the Catherines identical, but so are the Barbaras (in green with a brown > mantle). > > For the Donne triptych, he made additional changes in the composition, > mostly to place Donne, his wife, and their daughter directly in the front, > as central figures worshipping Mary. The mystic marriage is no longer > depicted, which frees Saints Catherine and Barbara to be moved behind, > escorting the Donne family, to the positions formerly occupied by the > Saints John & John. There are some other changes (details of the canopy, > the instruments carried by the angels). Barbara gets pin-on sleeves to her > green dress, and the virgin gets a brighter blue underdress. > > One thing that's important to remember about Catherine's sideless surcote > is that it was part of her iconography, not a representation of anything > worn in the 1470s. I have a lecture on this that's too long to repeat > here, but suffice it to say that the sideless surcote went out of fashion > almost a century earlier, having become reserved for royal ceremonial use, > and became frozen in art to depict ancient queens, particularly royal > saints, such as Catherine and Ursula. I've collected hundreds of St. > Catherines, and something like 90 percent of them are in sideless > surcotes; it was as much of an identifier for her as the wheel, crown, and > sword. By the time Memling and his contemporaries were painting Catherine, > painting styles were much more realistic than they were when sideless > surcotes were actually worn, and clothing construction methods had changed > considerably. Lacking any direct examples of *real* sideless surcotes, > they apparently painted these dresses as they assumed they would be made > if sewn by tailors of their own day, which bears little resemblance to the > way they had actually been made in the later 1300s for real people. I > would not be surprised if Memling had the dress made up as a costume for > his model, in which case it would have been easy enough to re-use -- or he > could have done it from imagination and then repainted it from the > previous paintings. > > > OK, why is Mary Magdelene portrayed as having sleeves that are often red or > > another color different from the dress? > > A red dress or sleeves is iconographically associated with Mary Magdalene, > the former prostitute, as is exotic or flashy clothing. She was one of the > few saints that artists could legitimately dress sexy, and the only one of > those who routinely appears in scenes of Christ's life, so they "went to > town" with her. That tendency increased over the course of the 1400s. Her > noticable presence and bright colors were very useful compositionally, to > balance other elements of the painting or to draw the eye in certain > directions. I've collected lots of Mary Magdalenes over the years too, and > if you place the Flemish depictions in a chronological line, you can > clearly trace her increasingly prominent placement in the compositions, as > well as increasing flashiness of her dress. (Yeah, it's another lecture.) > The most popular female Saints in the Middle Ages, after the Virgin Mary > of course, were Catherine and Mary Magdalene, so it's easy to find > examples, and artists had plenty of reason to codify their appearance for > easy identification -- and lots of opportunity to play with them. > > > Also who was Sisamnes? There is a graphic painting of him being flayed in > > my new fabulous (OK, I probably paid too much for it) Bruges book. The > > painting is called The Justice of Cambyses. Again the people have that > > realistic look about them, even the guy being flayed. I wasn't sure if it > > was allegorical in nature. > > Not allegory so much as moral tale. This is a pair of panel paintings > commissioned from Gerard David in 1498 for the alderman's room of the > Bruges City Hall. They now reside in the Groening Museum (just down the > street from the Memling Museum, and another good reason to visit Bruges, > along with lace and waffles). Sisamnes was a Persian judge who did some > heinous crime (I think took a bribe), and who was punished by being flayed > alive. The Bruges alderman chose that subject for their meeting hall as a > reminder for the city fathers to resist corruption. I could find further > details somewhere if someone needs them. > > --Robin > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:38:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27643 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23782; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23568 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23559 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:51:58 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32647 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:51:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03556 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:51:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:51:57 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Ok ladies, tomorrow morning at 730 ct or so the project that I have been working on all this time will finally come up for public view. I need your creative help. Look at it and send me your comments. http://www.neimanmarcus.com I need to know what you think of it creatively and what you are viewing it in and how long it take to look at it in what kind of connection. Thanks for your time! Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27656 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:40:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23954; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24168 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:55:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA24157 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373530(6)>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:55:23 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135727(8)>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:55:13 -1000 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:55:08 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Could someone who is knowledgeable please comment on figures 178 and 179 in QE's Wardrobe Unlock'd? They're drawings showing a French woman (c.1566) where the top of the bodice is completely below the breasts. Her breasts and nipples are showing--artistic license? Also, what is the opening down the center front? If it's the smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you couldn't see it? Even if the lady has her headpiece, girdle, gloves, etc. she gives me the impression of not being fully dressed. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:06:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27723 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:06:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26803; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28290 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28280 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.20] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11atQy-0000Zp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:21:10 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:37:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows So I went down to my local cloth store to look for the Zoot Suit patterns someone said Vogue had - and nothing! I found the vintage section and the men's section, but no Zoot Suit anywhere. Butterick didn't have one (not in their retro or men's or costume sections), Simplicity didn't have one, and McCalls didn't have one. So refresh my memory. Where were these patterns to be found? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27727 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26804; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28275 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28269 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.20] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11atQw-0000Zp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:21:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991008002641.00c00100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:28:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman In-Reply-To: <199910100502.XAA18520@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Wow! I just noticed the same woman in the exact same sideless surcote and >red underdress in three separate Memling Paintings. There's a yellow bodice with black trim in what seems like half of Vermeer's paintings. He must have had it in his studio as a prop. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27751 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28090; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29730 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:31:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29711 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-69.radiks.net [206.29.243.71]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA28517 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:30:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991011232215.0077b078@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:22:15 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Tryptich In-Reply-To: <199910111934.NAA15666@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >Memling placed the same St. Catherine in the Donne Triptych (1479, London, >National Gallery), the altarpiece for the Hospital of St. John in Bruges >(commissioned 1474, completed 1479, still in Bruges, where the hospital >now houses the Memling Museum), and a smaller Virgin & Child with Saints >at the Metropolitan Museum in New York (1480). The latter two pieces >depict the "mystic marriage" of St. Catherine. I'm guessing that these are >the same three paintings you're mentioning. > >The St. John altarpiece was generally considered Memling's finest work and >would have been seen by anyone coming to Bruges at that time. Memling was >clearly very busy in the late 1470s,..... IIRC, There was a very nice article about Memling and the art in the former Hospital of St. John in Bruges in last month's (Sept. 99) Smithsonian magazine. It might be easier to find in most libraries than some of the books it might be in. The art is gorgeous. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:48:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27793 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02391; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:03:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06300 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:03:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06286 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:03:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup329.serv.net [207.207.70.222]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA00904 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d501bf146f$1d751140$de46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Same Woman] Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:29:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" I can help with this one: "Velvet History Techniques Fashions" Edited by Fabrizio de' Marinis ISBN 88-7017-115-9 (European) ISBN 0-9627985-1-7 (US) Published by Idea Books I have it and it is good source. Gia/Giacinta > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 03:59 PM 10/11/1999 -0700, you wrote: -Poster: Merouda the True of >Beaumaris > Which Velvet book? > That one, I cannot help with. > Who's Fabrizzio? > Not an author, one of those Italian artists...Ren., I believe. >-- Carol > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:18:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27819 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04360; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09659 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:33:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09653 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21061 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3802C8DE.BDA3F454@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:36:30 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns anywhere!!! References: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Found Vogue's 2367- Men's Zoot suit, at Jo-Ann's this weekend. On sale also! I think it was in the catalog with women's swing outfits. Can't remember if that was under vintage or not, but I don't think I looked under costumes in that book. It looks too straight in the torso line for what I remembered from the past. The jacket needs more shoulders and less waist, I think. The wonderful Elizabethan was sold out there, of course. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:24:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27828 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04750; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10566 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:40:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1302.mail.yahoo.com (web1302.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.152]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA10549 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991012055014.20321.rocketmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.163.180.67] by web1302.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:50:14 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:50:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jonna Hayden > > > >-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > > > >(laughing quietly to myself....) > >does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who > sews) and sewer > >(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are > spelled the same? I must tell you, when I saw this response, I fell off my chair in a total fit of laughter, primarily because I should know better. You see, my DH was a *waste water plant operator* for two small towns. The archeologists of the future will have a grand time digging in our own versions of bogs--the clothes that turn up are pretty interesting. (No, he didn't bring me any samples!) Now when my friends tell me I'm a great "sewer" I'll try not to be offended or giggle. :) Thanks for the laugh, Jonna > > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27832 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:26:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04989; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10772 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:42:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1305.mail.yahoo.com (web1305.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.155]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA10766 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991012055211.7257.rocketmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.163.180.39] by web1305.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:52:11 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jonna Hayden > > > >-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > > > >(laughing quietly to myself....) > >does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who > sews) and sewer > >(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are > spelled the same? I must tell you, when I saw this response, I fell off my chair in a total fit of laughter, primarily because I should know better. You see, my DH was a *waste water plant operator* for two small towns. The archeologists of the future will have a grand time digging in our own versions of bogs--the clothes that turn up are pretty interesting. (No, he didn't bring me any samples!) Now when my friends tell me I'm a great "sewer" I'll try not to be offended or giggle. :) Thanks for the laugh, Jonna > > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:37:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27838 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05696; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12093 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:53:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12085 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991012055325.NIGW28517.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: <025b01bf1473$68c68b20$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> Subject: H-COST: New Zoot Pant and Celtic Patterns WAS Re: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:34:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Actually, there is one that on first glance at the pattern, appears to have a really good set of Zoot pants. There is also another that if the lapels are widened and lengthened, makes a decent jacket. I'm trying in the next few days to update the reviews and also add the new Simplicity "Retro" pattern #8952. It's designed by outside sources (Hep Wear by Angie & Roddy). The other pattern is also of the Retro group but is not considered a costume and I'm currently too tired and lazy to travel to the shop to get the number ;) I'll also be putting up pics and descriptions of the new Celtic pattern #8913 for men. This is not a top notch kilt, but it looks like it might work for a novice who just wants the look and not the expense or time to make one to rule. I haven't looked at either of these well yet. Hope this information helps someone ;) ~Kyna Grannd Garb Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories info@granndgarb.com http://GranndGarb.com ICQ#12859312 ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows To: Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 3:37 AM Subject: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > So I went down to my local cloth store to look for the Zoot Suit patterns > someone said Vogue had - and nothing! I found the vintage section and the > men's section, but no Zoot Suit anywhere. Butterick didn't have one (not > in their retro or men's or costume sections), Simplicity didn't have one, > and McCalls didn't have one. So refresh my memory. Where were these > patterns to be found? > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 06:57:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24568 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:57:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26069; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06658 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:12:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06645 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:12:17 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip240.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.240]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id FAA09047 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 05:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910121212.FAA09047@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 05:16:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Could someone who is knowledgeable please comment on figures 178 and 179 > in QE's Wardrobe Unlock'd? They're drawings showing a French woman > (c.1566) where the top of the bodice is completely below the breasts. > Her breasts and nipples are showing--artistic license? Whereas the top of the breast seems to be below the breast, it is more likely that the breasts were pulled down into it. No nipples show. At first, I thought so until I realized that what was a nipple was actually the tie from her sleeve caps. (Either that or she has nipples at other places on her sleeve.) > Also, what is the opening down the center front? If it's the > smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you couldn't see > it? Even if the lady has her headpiece, girdle, gloves, etc. she gives me > the impression of not being fully dressed. The chemise/partlet has a front opening, but there is a necklace overlying it which goes partway down onto the bodice itself which sort of looks like an opening until you look closely at it. (The opening is obviously at the back. It's one of our best pictures of a back laced gown.) The outfit is quite simple in design and fabric ornamentation compared to many clothes of the time period. I always consider this to be "everyday" dress, as opposed to court dress. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 07:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24601 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:23:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28152; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09852 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:38:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09818; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-89.s89.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.89]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18460; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003101bf14af$071963c0$593eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Costume DC" , "Vintage" Subject: H-COST: Deadline Call for Papers Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:40:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Just a reminder that the deadline for the call for papers for Costume Society of America is this Friday, Oct. 15. For more information go to http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/Symposium/Call.htm Penny Ladnier Webmaster, CSA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 07:35:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24644 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29280; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA11721 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:51:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11715 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.154]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19629 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:51:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:51:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: > >Could someone who is knowledgeable please comment on figures 178 and 179 >in QE's Wardrobe Unlock'd? They're drawings showing a French woman >(c.1566) where the top of the bodice is completely below the breasts. >Her breasts and nipples are showing--artistic license? I've always thought it looked like her breasts were showing, too, and I think it's because the lines of the engraving (perhaps not the proper technical term) seem to follow a curve around them, especially on her right breast. Not that that means her breasts are actually meant to be showing--though I'm not sure I'm convinced about that being a sleeve tie and not a nipple. > Even if the lady has her headpiece, girdle, gloves, etc. she gives me >the impression of not being fully dressed. Me, too. I've always struggled with this picture, but the evidence seems overwhelming (headdress, apron, gloves, pomander) that it's actually meant to represent a fully-clad woman. Is Enea Vico (the artist) perhaps Italian and making a snide comment on the licentiousness of Frenchwomen? Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 08:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24807 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04028; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18359 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:41:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18353 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:41:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6IYB0NvYNc (4575) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.cf4940aa.2534945f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:40:47 EDT Subject: H-COST: Czarist Russian Uniforms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com Can anyone help me? My theatre is doing a production of Checkhov's Three Sisters and the deal that I have arranged to rent the uniforms from New York has fallen through. If you work for a costume rental house or if you're a employed by a theatre and might have them in your stock, I would be interested in hearing from you. Recreating uniforms accurately is a royal pain and I'm dealing with a shop full of poorly skilled students and a deadline that is rapidly approaching (Nov. 24). Thanks ahead of time. Cheryl Odom, Costume Designer, Santa Fe, New Mexico _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 09:27:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24891 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:27:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11988; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00827 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00819 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:42:05 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25970 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:41:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09683 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:41:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:41:59 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus In-Reply-To: <38028D2A.DCD7D7D4@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I am so sorry for offending many of you. All opinions are welcome, including the male population of the list!! One of these days I will be politically correct... Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 10:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24958 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:32:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22152; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17596 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:46:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17581 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA10436; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3803585D.F71D6014@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:48:46 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Same Woman] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Which Velvet book? > That one, I cannot help with. > Who's Fabrizzio? > Not an author, one of those Italian artists...Ren., I believe. Fabrizzio most certainly is an author. Of a 20th century book. Velvet, History and Techniques. I posted the info on the book yesterday. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 10:56:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25081 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25430; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24091 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:11:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24075 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:11:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:11:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >So I went down to my local cloth store to look for the Zoot Suit patterns >someone said Vogue had - and nothing! I found the vintage section and the >men's section, but no Zoot Suit anywhere. Butterick didn't have one (not >in their retro or men's or costume sections), Simplicity didn't have one, >and McCalls didn't have one. So refresh my memory. Where were these >patterns to be found? > > I just bought it last week at Joann's. The zoot suit pattern is in the men's section of the newest book, V 2367. Really! It may be that your Joann's has had their run on Vogue patterns as they're on sale for 70% off for the next couple of weeks. There were lots of copies at my local store. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 11:06:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25132 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26752; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26618 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26596 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:18 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VMTa18036 (4310) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ba62ee59.2534b9d5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:20:37 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << There's a detailed discussion of single bare-breastedness (that is, one breast showing) in art in Anne Hollander's _Seeing Through Clothes_. She traces it from Greek statuary to 14th Madonnas through the 18th century and analyzes its changing significance. For Greeks, fashion, for Madonnas, maternity, for later periods sensuality and even "a look of instability, useful for connoting terror or license or devotional zeal." (!) (p. 191) >> What comes immediately to mind here is the symbol of France, the lady with her breast(s) exposed, carrying a flag, leading the troups, etc. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 11:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25136 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26819; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26710 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26704 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991012162138.IBBT26347.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:21:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:25:24 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991012162138.IBBT26347.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" *The sewer sat in the sewer* The Smithsonian called them *heteronyms*, but I now find that they are being called*homographs* in England. We used to find them and make up sentences like *Art objects to art objects!* If anyone is really interested in this problem in the English language where a word can have 2 spellings and 2 meanings you can check it out at a wonderful site I recently found http://www.stir.ac.uk/celt/staff/higdox/wordlist/homogrph.htm ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Michelle" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions >Date: Mon, Oct 11, 1999, 5:27 PM > > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > >>-Poster: Megan & David Schmidt >> >>(laughing quietly to myself....) >>does it bother anyone that the words sewer (one who sews) and sewer >>(where all the ummm...waste material goes) are spelled the same? All I >>could think of is an archeological dig at a waste water plant where one >>centuries from now, they examined all the clothing that was flushed down >>the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. > > >Yes, that is why I always write seamstress instead. It isn't as offensive to >the ears. >Michelle > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 12:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25262 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06941; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14114 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:27:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14094 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:29:56 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Subject: H-COST: detailed discussion of clothing in art Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf14d6$cef8c530$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910120352.VAA23601@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >There's a detailed discussion of single bare-breastedness (that is, one breast showing) in art in Anne Hollander's _Seeing Through Clothes_. A very nifty volume covering a similar topic specifically for illuminated manuscripts is Odile Blanc's _Parades et Parures_. It may well have been translated in to English. Dr. Blanc works at the Musee de Tissue in Lyon. She specifically emphases mid 14thc thru 15th c garments, w/ an emphasis, unsurprisingly, on France. >... the entire book is very intriguing--Hollander analyzes through art history different ways of portraying the body, dressed and undressed, and how those related to each other and the viewers in each context. I would say the same about Dr Blanc's book. She specifically covers such topics as how to distinguish the allegorical, exotic or fantastic from the real people, conventions of dress & undress, every day dress vs. ritual garments (wedding, funeral, coronation, baptism, etc) and symbolism. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 12:13:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25266 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:13:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07276; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14488 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:28:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from www.friss.net (mail.savantenterprises.com [192.148.174.120] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14476 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:28:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyssa@mgram.com Received: from freemail.mgram.com ([192.148.174.116]) by www.friss.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02075 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:29:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199910121729.LAA02075@www.friss.net> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: 12 Oct 1999 11:27:20 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Subscription problem Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lyssa@mgram.com Hello, Sorry to bother the list with this, but I'm looking for the list owner. My email address changed and after following the directions for unsubscribing and resubscribing to the digest I have a problem. The resubscribe was successful, but because my address wasn't the same as the one I was unsubscribing, that failed. I am now receiving 2 copies of each digest. I tried emailing the address for the list owner in one of my saved messages, but haven't received a response. I think the address was probably wrong. Does anyone have the list owner's address? Thanks! Maggie lyssa@mgram.com (formerly lyssa@kktv.com) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 12:23:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25276 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:23:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09641; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17256 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17226 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.238] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11b5rN-0005rZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:37:13 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012102233.00c1d980@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:42:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: minikin patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I was looking thru my boxes of older patterns, and I discovered some 'minikin' patterns. Minikins were those mini-manikins fabric stores used to dress in small versions of the dresses for which they sold patterns, right? If so, are the minikins themselves still available in antique stores? As in, has anyone seen one? How tall were they? (I forget - 18" or 24" sounds about right.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 12:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25280 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09630; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17223 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17213 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.238] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11b5rL-0005rZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:37:12 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012101205.00c0d900@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:22:26 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>So I went down to my local cloth store to look for the Zoot Suit patterns >>someone said Vogue had - and nothing! I found the vintage section and the >>men's section, but no Zoot Suit anywhere. Butterick didn't have one (not >>in their retro or men's or costume sections), Simplicity didn't have one, >>and McCalls didn't have one. So refresh my memory. Where were these >>patterns to be found? >> >> >I just bought it last week at Joann's. The zoot suit pattern is in the >men's section of the newest book, V 2367. Really! It may be that your >Joann's has had their run on Vogue patterns as they're on sale for 70% off >for the next couple of weeks. There were lots of copies at my local store. I too was at a JoAnn's, and I didn't find any Zoot Suit-like objects in their catalog. None of their pattern catalogs had them. My friend couldn't find them either. I did not go thru all the patterns they had in the drawers because my Sweetie was waiting for us. I will take all the replies I got, mine them for pattern numbers, and try again. I really liked how Butterick had re-used the original pattern illustrations. Almost made me want to be scrawny-thin, and make some of the garments to wear. Problem is my bones aren't that narrow, hips or ribs. Barbie's scrawny-thin enough to look like a pattern envelope person, and her legs are long enough. Vogue had some wonderfully correct historical doll clothes, and some not so good ones. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 12:43:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25295 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:43:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13456; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23101 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:57:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23086 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:57:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01573 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38037744.C278CB27@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:00:36 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns References: <4.1.19991012102233.00c1d980@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I believe they were supposed to be half the measurement size of the average woman, so about 30"+ would seem right. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 13:10:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25334 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17536; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00137 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:25:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00130 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991012182554.UNVN28517.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:25:54 -0700 Message-ID: <034b01bf14dc$6dbb1100$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <4.1.19991008003307.00c00b40@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19991012101205.00c0d900@pop.slip.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:05:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > I too was at a JoAnn's, and I didn't find any Zoot Suit-like objects in > their catalog. None of their pattern catalogs had them. My friend > couldn't find them either. I did not go thru all the patterns they had in > the drawers because my Sweetie was waiting for us. > My Joann's got the book and patterns in yesterday but they were still in the boxes ::grins:: I'm so known I was allowed to open and peak. The Rag Shop across the highway didn't have the new WINTER Simplicity book or patterns....*BUT* the Rag Shop closer to my house *HAD* the new Winter catalog *AND* the patterns. Keep checking, your store just hasn't received the new shipment from Simplicity yet, but should any day. It's pattern #8952 from the Retro Costume Collection. The other one I mentioned in a different email is pattern #8879 from the Retro Fashion Collection. The second has pretty good pants and a jacket that has a less flamboyant lapel than some I've seen, but does match some old photos I've dug up. ~Kyna -- Grannd Garb Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories http://granndgarb.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 14:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25683 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03168; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20965 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:55:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20954 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sammy.excite.com ([199.172.153.124]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991012195507.JGHF27120.ewey@sammy.excite.com> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:55:07 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns Message-Id: <939758107.9118.199@excite.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:55:07 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > > I was looking thru my boxes of older patterns, and I discovered some > 'minikin' patterns. Minikins were those mini-manikins fabric stores used > to dress in small versions of the dresses for which they sold patterns, > right? If so, are the minikins themselves still available in antique > stores? As in, has anyone seen one? How tall were they? (I forget - 18" > or 24" sounds about right.) I have seen something similar in high-end gift shops. Seems miniature sewing bits are becoming 'fashionable' as a decorating item. (Which doesn't bother ME in the slightest! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 14:49:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25684 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:48:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03320; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21872 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:59:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21866 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goatee.excite.com ([198.3.99.25]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991012195922.LTJN1457.fortune@goatee.excite.com> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:59:22 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Funny Looks (was Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!!) Message-Id: <939758361.24793.377@excite.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:59:21 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > My Joann's got the book and patterns in yesterday but they were still in the > boxes ::grins:: I'm so known I was allowed to open and peak. The Rag Shop > across the highway didn't have the new WINTER Simplicity book or > patterns....*BUT* the Rag Shop closer to my house *HAD* the new Winter > catalog *AND* the patterns. Keep checking, your store just hasn't received > the new shipment from Simplicity yet, but should any day. I've been so happy with the information on this list, the pattern numbers being only a small part of it. But this 'inside info' has gotten me some odd looks from the staff at my favorite local fabric shops. Seems *I* have the information about the coming patterns before they do! Thank you all! Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:00:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25731 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05061; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24418 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:10:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24401; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910122010.OAA24401@net.indra.com> From: Julie Brautigan To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Brautigan This sounds like a small mannekin a friend of mine gave me about 15 years ago. I believe he said it found it in an antique store. It is about 18" tall, has a composition body, and the only parts that move are the arms. I don't remember if the hair is molded or not. I believe he said something about it being a "dressmaker's mannekin". Julie Brautigan Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > I was looking thru my boxes of older patterns, and I discovered some > 'minikin' patterns. Minikins were those mini-manikins fabric stores used > to dress in small versions of the dresses for which they sold patterns, > right? If so, are the minikins themselves still available in antique > stores? As in, has anyone seen one? How tall were they? (I forget - 18" > or 24" sounds about right.) > > Kayta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25777 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08466; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29178 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:31:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29141 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13545 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991012163544.006aaa1c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:35:44 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: 17th Century Groups (long) In-Reply-To: <19990914011037.15141.rocketmail@web1401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Someone asked me for addresses for 17th century groups, so for folks less familiar with the US reenactor scene, I suggest... "Smoke and Fire News" a monthly "international listing of living history events." Their address is P.O. Box 166, Grand Rapids, Ohio 43522 (USA). It's small newspaper format and my October issue was 48 pages including many b&w photos of costumed folks from various events. They cover all periods, including timeline events from Roman to the Gulf War. There are several pages of ads in the back, some with websites, to peruse period reproduction items and services for purchase. For the "Cavalier period" five organizations are listed under the heading: 17th Century Living History Organizations. They are: Cavalier Association (17th century) Mark & Jennie Gist 46 Fallis Road Columbus, OH 43214 USA e-mail: 73357.3446@compuserve.com (I belong to this group. I don't know the other groups.) Brethren of the Coast "Pirate Portrayals" Patricia Atkinson 2211 N. Cahuenga Blvd. #203 Los Angeles, CA 90068-2775 USA The Modern Aviso subscription $9 per year Leigh Tartaglio 1 Evergreen Ave. E.H.T., N. J. 08234-7244 USA e-mail: aviso@dandy.net Hapsburg Society Chuck Young 212 W. Eueka St. Champaign, IL 61820-2932 USA No Quarter Given Pirate Newsletter c/o Christine Markel Lampe PO Box 7456 Riverside, CA 92513-7456 USA (909) 785-1233 There may be others out there who don't list themselves in Smoke & Fire but I bet the people who list their groups could tell you. S&F lists international events but the coverage for the US is better. The Oct. issue has short articles and pictures for reenactments at Kalamazoo, Culloden '99, "Lee vs. Grant" [American CW], Southern California Renaissance Pleasure Faire, Tewkesbury, Colonial Williamburg, Battle of New Orleans, Rendezvous in the Rouge, Seven Year's War, Yorktown, Mississinewa 1812, Rockome Gardens Pow Wow, and the Wyatt Earp Birthplace. I don't have any affiliation with them but I'm a satisfied subscriber. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:19:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25782 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:19:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09224; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26116 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:19:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25680; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-59.s59.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.59]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03813; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e901bf14ef$3dcdcce0$3bf4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "VGP list" Cc: "h-costume" , "Vintage" , "Sew retro" , "h-needlework" , "Fantasy" , "WearableArt" Subject: H-COST: Worm Virus Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Sorry for the bulk posting, but this is very important! PLEASE do not open any email with attachments that read.... "I hope you enjoy these links." in the body area of the email. DELETE the message immediately. This is the worm virus, and it just hit one of the large lists I am on. I received 6 messages today with the virus from this one email list. I did not open them. If you do open the attachment, the virus is passed on to everyone in your address book, including the lists you are on. Maybe our listmom might consider moderating the list carefully for this message. Its a good day to back up your files. Please be cautious... Penny Ladnier _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:37:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25794 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12465; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:52:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04786 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:52:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04769 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-7.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.7]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01454 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991011151756.009adb00@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:17:56 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Name My Business...some of my suggestions In-Reply-To: <199910111512.IAA22293@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn >>the toilet or eaten by the washing machine. > >Maybe they could solve the mystery of Where The Socks Go.... Didn't you know? They get transformed into metal hangers. ;) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:44:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25806 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13418; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06582 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:59:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06559 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21033 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:03:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:03:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> My mother, the doll collector, has this to say: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:55:53 -0400 From: Tish Lehman To: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns (fwd) Besides being used in the stores to illustrate clothes (just as Buddy Lee was used to illustrate for work clothes since 1914), they were also sold for little girls to learn to sew with. The 18" size is so much easier to sew for than the 12", which is much better than the 8" hard plastic ones. I don't see them often, but when I have, they've been cheap enough for even me to afford. I have owned an 18" one (with arms) that I regret selling, and now have the 12" one, which isn't quite as cool. Except I do like the 14C twist her body makes. Look at the Virgin statues, and you'll see what I mean. Shoulders, waist, hips, knees, each a gentle turn from the line of the head. She recently showed up in Ursula Mertz's book on compo dolls accompanied by the original box. I can't remember the exact name (the book's at home) but the 12" one had a name like Sally McCall or Alice McCall. She was, of course, sold in a little cardboard suitcase with some scraps of trim and cloth and a McCall's pattern. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 15:54:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25830 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:54:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15009; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09409 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:09:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09394 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13369 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:14:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:14:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Worm Virus In-Reply-To: <00e901bf14ef$3dcdcce0$3bf4accf@e4c2n6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> This reads like a hoax, but I couldn't find it on any of my usual sources for internet hoaxes. I did however find this: http://www.stiller.com/explorer.htm It discribes and explains a *real* virus, similar to the one discribed previously under this subject heading. The important thing to remember is to never open executable attachments you didn't specifically request, even if they're from a friend. Hope this helped, and didn't just contribute to the vast supply of existing spam. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 16:02:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25844 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:02:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16457; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11640 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:17:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11627 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:16:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:17:28 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns (fwd) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > >My mother, the doll collector, has this to say: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:55:53 -0400 >From: Tish Lehman >To: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> >Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns (fwd) > >Besides being used in the stores to illustrate clothes (just as Buddy Lee >was used to illustrate for work clothes since 1914), they were also sold >for little girls to learn to sew with. The 18" size is so much easier to >sew for than the 12", which is much better than the 8" hard plastic ones. > >I don't see them often, but when I have, they've been cheap enough for even >me to afford. I have owned an 18" one (with arms) that I regret selling, >and now have the 12" one, which isn't quite as cool. Except I do like the >14C twist her body makes. Look at the Virgin statues, and you'll see what >I mean. Shoulders, waist, hips, knees, each a gentle turn from the line of >the head. > >She recently showed up in Ursula Mertz's book on compo dolls accompanied by >the original box. I can't remember the exact name (the book's at home) but >the 12" one had a name like Sally McCall or Alice McCall. She was, of >course, sold in a little cardboard suitcase with some scraps of trim and >cloth and a McCall's pattern. > Betsy McCall. I got to cut the paperdolls from the McCall's magazine every month after my mother read the magazine. McCalls also sells a pattern for an 14-18" stuffed doll named Betsy McCall with several patterns for different types of clothes, including historic clothing (prairie girl, etc.). Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 17:06:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25987 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26509; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27390 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27383 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-78.s78.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.78]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29276 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018201bf1500$47506e60$3bf4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Worm Virus Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:22:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I wish it were a hoax but it isn't. It happened today on a DC web tech list with over 1,000 members. I am just deleting everything from that list now. Everytime the computer with the virus is rebooted, it regenerates the message back out to the list. If you go to the McAfee (sp) website you will find more information and an upgrade for the virus. I am sorry I didn't keep the URL, because I don't use their software. The virus has been around since July 1999. It is also known by Trojan Horse virus. Later... Penny _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 17:06:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25986 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26506; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27435 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27428 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20549 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:29:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17145 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:29:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:29:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tryptich In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991011232215.0077b078@radiks.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I wrote: > >Memling placed the same St. Catherine in the Donne Triptych (1479, London, > >National Gallery), the altarpiece for the Hospital of St. John in Bruges > >(commissioned 1474, completed 1479, still in Bruges, where the hospital > >now houses the Memling Museum)... Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > IIRC, There was a very nice article about Memling and the art in the former > Hospital of St. John in Bruges in last month's (Sept. 99) Smithsonian > magazine. It might be easier to find in most libraries than some of the > books it might be in. I immediately dashed to the Smithsonian site to view this, but I found no Memling. I did, however, find an article on the Isenheim Altarpiece, created by Matthias Grunewald for a hospital chapel in Colmar, France, in the early 1500s. Different time, different place, different artist, but it was a hospital altarpiece at least. The Smithsonian website doesn't show the art, alas, but links to a few partial images in the Webmuseum. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 17:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25995 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:10:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27391; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28746 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:26:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28732 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:26:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ZSRa06991 (3964) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5f904594.25350f5f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:25:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I made aTudor gown from a sari for a friend of mine. Several problems: 1) It really has to be lined, interfaced, etc. because it is thin. 2) Since it is only SO LONG, you have to lay out cut it very carefully; the sari works better for smaller ladies. 3) Since it has a border or two borders, you have to be very careful laying out the pattern & cutting it. 4) You should find a border design that does not scream SARI. The one I made turned out pretty well, but I would have liked a few more yards for the skirt -- I felt it was a bit skimpy. It was red with metallic borders and I combined it with red satin and gold trim. The person I made it for was delighted and it looked good. There was not enough fabric left over to blow your nose on. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 17:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25999 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27811; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29485 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:29:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29475 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:29:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TTNa14300 (3964) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.670f4849.2535100b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:28:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Banner Silk--Slightly OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I would suggest a silk taffeta. It is the proper weight and texture. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 17:22:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26006 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29102; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01522 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:37:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01508 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA27338; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3803B8AD.4757A2AC@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:39:41 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <0.5f904594.25350f5f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > 3) Since it has a border or two borders, you have > to be very careful laying out the pattern & cutting it. 4) You should find a > border design that does not scream SARI. Which reminds me. We were discussing earlier that Elizabethan didn't have borders like the borders used in saris. But I was looking through one of my books the other day, Thomasina Beck's _The Embroiderer's Story_, and there was a color picture of a lady in one of those cool embroidered jackets with a red skirt with a border down the front opening and along the hem that reminded me exactly of sari borders. Take a look if you have the book and tell me what you think. And no, I don't know of a website with the picture. Sorry. :} And it sounds just like what she described. Red with gold borders. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 18:07:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26104 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:06:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05352; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11105 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:20:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11094 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:20:04 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FEGa19964 (4189) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.64b82ddd.25351bfb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:19:23 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/12/1999 6:28:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << Several problems: 1) It really has to be lined, interfaced, etc. because it is thin. 2) Since it is only SO LONG, you have to lay out cut it very carefully; the sari works better for smaller ladies. 3) Since it has a border or two borders, you have to be very careful laying out the pattern & cutting it. >> Problems??? Sounds like business as usual to me. :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 20:20:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26420 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22371; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02638 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02631 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07534 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:40:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:40:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: minikin patterns (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> More from my doll-collecting mother ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To continue: The Betsy McCall paper doll printed every monthin the fifties had dresses made from patterns for life-sized dresses, and has also been a terrific doll in three dimensions in at least three versions besides the cloth one your friend tells about. She's currently a very hot item among doll collectors, especially in the sixties 6" version with lingerie but the maniquin (or minikin, as one of your buddies put it) is not Betsy but a predecessor. That one (I'm home with my book now) was Peggy McCall. I quote from the 1943 advertisment showing Peggy in a bifold box. The left wing of the box has three pieces of cloth and a booklet entitled "McCall: Tricks in Sewing." The right wing has three patterns for doll-sized dresses. The middle shows the manikin (girlikin?) tied naked into the middle, with a dress form in her size, two spools of thread, a package marked Talon, and two things I can't make out. The text says "This fascinating, educational toy crashes the field with terrific appeal to the small fry and the teen-age, as well! "Peggy," an adorable manikin 13" high, with detatchable arms, is available in a variety of strikingly packaged sets complete with real MCCALL Dressmaker patterns and grown-up sewing accessories. Outstanding dealer helps and plenty of publicity in Parents', Mademoiselle, McCall's, House and Garden, movie magazines, True Confessions, and others. Sets priced to retail from $1.50 to $5.00" There's also an ad from 1942 selling "Peggy," the Fashion Model Sewing Box ($1, $3, or $5). This appears to be a sturdy semicircular sewing box into which Peggy (blonde or brunette) fits, along with needles, thread, etc. and "a descriptive booklet carrying a message to young Americans who are just learning to sew. Because of the great interest in home sewing which is now apparent, this new line of sewing boxes ... willl be of special interest to toybuyers." By the way, "All boxes are carried out in red, white, and blue -- patriotic design." " Attractive displays showing Peggy fully dressed are available." The fully dressed Peggys are wearing, respectively, a nun-like student nurse outfit, and a dark skirt with clunky white top. The quality is really pretty chintzy, as composition dolls go, even for wartime America. But I do like her anyway, and wish I had her arms. Mom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 20:25:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26424 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22818; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03442 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:40:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03424 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11310 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01d601bf1519$7d467b40$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: no Zoot Suit patterns amywhere!!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:22:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >So I went down to my local cloth store to look for the Zoot Suit patterns >someone said Vogue had - and nothing! I found the vintage section and the >men's section, but no Zoot Suit anywhere. Butterick didn't have one (not >in their retro or men's or costume sections), Simplicity didn't have one, >and McCalls didn't have one. So refresh my memory. Where were these >patterns to be found? I was wondering the same thing. I also had a fruitless search this past weekend at JoAnn's. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 21:08:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26494 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:08:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28200; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10288 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:23:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10279 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.52]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA20219 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:23:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.ba62ee59.2534b9d5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:23:38 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > ><< There's a detailed discussion of single bare-breastedness (that is, one > breast showing) in art in Anne Hollander's _Seeing Through Clothes_. >What comes immediately to mind here is the symbol of France, the lady with >her breast(s) exposed, carrying a flag, leading the troups, etc. Of this one, Hollander comments that there is not enough material in her dress to actually cover her bosom or her bare, flag-waving arm, but that Delacroix deliberately designed her costume as "uneven in design, suggesting Classical rags proper to a working-class goddess." Delacroix made an interesting compromise here--the garment she wears looks like it _could_ be an actual dress (of the negligee style, perhaps) but she wears it like old-school Classical Drapery. Hollander continues "Furthermore, her exposed bosom could never have been denuded by the exertions of the moment; rather, the exposure itself, built into the costume, is an original part of her essence--at once holy, desirable, and fierce." (p. 202) Sounds like Joan of Arc, which actually may not be too far off. Painting (and other forms of art) seems to require quite a bit of costume design--it's been great to hear analyses of various fashion confections and how real they might have been. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 22:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26580 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:07:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04777; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19273 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:20:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19263 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.52]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20280 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:20:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:20:55 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: 16th century fencing garments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Hello, the List! A question for you: a gentleman here is looking for research on 16th century fencing garments--that is, anything that would have been worn specifically for rapier fighting. Since I know nothing at all about this, I put it to you. This gentleman is not on the list, so please mail him directly at sohei@execpc.com (I am sending him a reconstructed version of the "blackened linen" thread, though it's a bit early.) Many Thanks Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 23:12:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26746 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12673; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28268 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:26:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28263 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-101.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.101]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA12541 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991012171445.00a22b50@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:14:45 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Could someone who is knowledgeable please comment on figures 178 and 179 >in QE's Wardrobe Unlock'd? They're drawings showing a French woman >(c.1566) where the top of the bodice is completely below the breasts. >Her breasts and nipples are showing--artistic license? It's hard to say because the artist obviously has difficulty with proportion. However, there seems to be some evidence for this sort of "daring" by some women from a couple of countries in the 16th century. I can't think of concrete evidence off hand. >Also, what is the opening down the center front? If it's the >smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you couldn't see >it? Even if the lady has her headpiece, girdle, gloves, etc. she gives >me the impression of not being fully dressed. I would definitely say she is fully dressed - one doesn't usually wear an apron in their undress. ;) But, I would say it is a smock/partlet with her chain (necklace) being worn over it. I'm not clear about your statement "...smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you couldn't see it?" Her bodice appears to be over the undergarment when I look at it. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 12 23:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26768 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:32:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14679; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01484 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:47:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA01476 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11035 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 04:47:31 -0000 Received: from 40.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.40) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 04:47:31 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991012214844.3a7ff0a6@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Lady in red skirt, was Re: H-COST: Sari Silk Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 03:39 PM 10/12/99 -0700, Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> 3) Since it has a border or two borders, you have >> to be very careful laying out the pattern & cutting it. 4) You should find a >> border design that does not scream SARI. > >Which reminds me. We were discussing earlier that Elizabethan didn't have >borders like the borders used in saris. But I was looking through one of my >books the other day, Thomasina Beck's _The Embroiderer's Story_, and there was a >color picture of a lady in one of those cool embroidered jackets with a red >skirt with a border down the front opening and along the hem that reminded me >exactly of sari borders. Take a look if you have the book and tell me what you >think. And no, I don't know of a website with the picture. Sorry. :} > >And it sounds just like what she described. Red with gold borders. > >Cynthia The only picture I can find that approximates your description is on page 11; while I can see a gold-embroidered pattern around the bottom of the skirt, there does not seem to be any front opening. The pattern does have an Indian look to it. According to the caption, this picture is "said to be Arabella Stuart, wearing a jacket trimed with cutwork. Portrait attributed to Marcus Gheeraerts, c. 1605." This is just after Elizabeth's reign (she died in 1603). There is another lady in red with gold lace on page 21, but the portrait is dated 1610. And she is wearing a red gown, not just a skirt, and the "edging" of the hem looks to be the lining of the gown (looks like a brocade to me) finished to show on the outside. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 02:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23271 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:53:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26587; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA21734 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:08:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA21728 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <374224(5)>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:08:50 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135729(3)>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:08:38 -1000 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:08:28 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991012171445.00a22b50@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: > her chain (necklace) being worn over it. I'm not clear about your > statement "...smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you > couldn't see it?" Her bodice appears to be over the undergarment when I > look at it. Yes, I agree. I was wondering about the "thing" down the center front from her neck. If it's a necklace, that explains it. I was puzzled because since the bodice does appear to go over the undergarment, if the "thing" was the center front opening of said undergarment, it made no sense that we'd be able to see it. But if it's a chain hanging over the bodice I understand. thanks, lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 05:16:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23471 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02384; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27374 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:31:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wi.net (wi.net [204.95.193.252]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27363 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wi.net (207.67.70.2) by wi.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0a16); Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:31:37 -0500 Message-ID: <38045DD0.F9032208@wi.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:24:16 -0500 From: Patrizia and Mark Nickel Organization: History's Wardrobe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Where is Sirs Fabrics? References: <3.0.3.32.19991012163544.006aaa1c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Patrizia and Mark Nickel Could anyone on the list tell me which town Sirs Fabrics is in. I know its located somewhere in Tennessee, and I will be traveling to Nashville tomorrow! Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 08:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23941 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15452; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14889 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14881 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11126 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22339 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:19:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:19:48 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th century fencing garments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed In Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620", she has descriptions, pictures and pattern layouts of two or three fencing doublets. They're from around 1600-1610. Hope this helps, Drea On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > -Poster: Melanie Schuessler > > Hello, the List! > > A question for you: a gentleman here is looking for research on 16th > century fencing garments--that is, anything that would have been worn > specifically for rapier fighting. Since I know nothing at all about this, > I put it to you. This gentleman is not on the list, so please mail him > directly at sohei@execpc.com > > (I am sending him a reconstructed version of the "blackened linen" thread, > though it's a bit early.) > > Many Thanks > Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 08:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23977 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:58:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23645; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24150 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:13:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24141 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA23177 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:12:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:12:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199910131412.HAA23177@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I would definitely say she is fully dressed - one doesn't usually wear an >apron in their undress. ;) But, I would say it is a smock/partlet with >her chain (necklace) being worn over it. I'm not clear about your >statement "...smock/partlet, wouldn't it end inside the bodice where you >couldn't see it?" Her bodice appears to be over the undergarment when I >look at it. > > Also there are a few (not many, but a few) instances of partlets, even sheer linen ones, worn over the bodice, not tucked in. I don't think that's what's happening here, though; I think the problem is bad art. This also may be charicature. Look at the back view, and the way her skirt is stretched so tight over her farthingale that the lower edge is forced up, showing the hoop. I've seen this picture many times, and it never made me think her breasts were showing. Could it be that I have a clean mind? Nah.... Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 09:36:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24050 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:36:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29289; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01394 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:46:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lib.uttyl.edu (lib.uttyl.edu [192.88.13.225]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01389 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:46:04 -0600 (MDT) From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Received: by lib.uttyl.edu for H-COSTUME@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 9:48:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 9:48:23 -0500 To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <991013094823.6f7e@lib.uttyl.edu> Subject: H-COST: Sirs fabrics Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Sirs fabric store is in Fayetteville, TN, down near the Alabama line. Vicki Betts vicki@lib.uttyl.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 10:19:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24199 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08455; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13294 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:34:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13270 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA05264; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3804A71B.777A7E9C@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:36:59 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Lady in red skirt, was Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <2.2.16.19991012214844.3a7ff0a6@mail2.quiknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > The only picture I can find that approximates your description is on page > 11; while I can see a gold-embroidered pattern around the bottom of the > skirt, there does not seem to be any front opening. The pattern does have an > Indian look to it. According to the caption, this picture is "said to be > Arabella Stuart, wearing a jacket trimed with cutwork. Portrait attributed > to Marcus Gheeraerts, c. 1605." This is just after Elizabeth's reign (she > died in 1603). This is the one. I was going from my memory in my description not the picture in front of me. Thanks for the clarification. I think a sari border would fall into the realm of reasonable facsimile for this particular look. And did you notice? A yellow ruff and cuff set. Yellow is pretty rare. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 10:26:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24240 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09553; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15083 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15041 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <45P88CD1>; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:41:02 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F58C@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Old Sewing Machines - Damascus & Domestic Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:33:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." The Damascus was manufactured by the Standard Sewing Machine Co. as well as the National Sewing Machine Co. Standard was formed in the 1880's and acquired by Singer in 1931. National was formed in 1890 and their machines were sold through dept. stores and through mail order establishements (like Sears and Wards). In 1953 the company merged with the Free S M Co. and produced one electric model under the Free-Westinghouse name. Free went out of business in 1969. The Domestic S M Co. sold out to White in 1924. This information is from "American Antique Sewing Machines" by Slaten. Good pictures and information, but not accurate in the value guide, I have heard. If you are interested in old machines, both treadle and electric, you may be interested in a newsgroup for old sewing machine collectors and enthusiasts. There are several members who work on their machines and are very helpful with problems such as the "stuck stitch selector on a fancy stitch roto thingie" which Carolyn mentioned as a problem regarding her Domestic. Their web site also has good information on old machines. If you would like that address, just email me. For those interested in Featherweights there are several newsgroups or sites as well, one is Featherweight Fanatics. Just do a search. Featherweights in my area of the Midwest go for about $375 - $425 sometimes more -- depending on their condition, the condition of the case, and number of attachments. My aunt in Idaho found one in a second hand store, fully loaded for $375. Not a lot for a dear little machine. : ) Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 11:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24381 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:38:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21504; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03676 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03657 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:51:41 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06424 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:51:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03123 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:51:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:51:39 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: patterns overseas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Do other countries have commercial pattern companies like we do? What I am getting at is, do they have the same kinda fad costume section like ours? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 11:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24391 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:53:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24290; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07801 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:06:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07774 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k617.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.217]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA01266 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3804BB65.4327@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:03:33 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns overseas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi ches@io.com wrote: > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > Do other countries have commercial pattern companies like we do? > > What I am getting at is, do they have the same kinda fad costume section > like ours? > They have the *same* pattern companies we do. That's why the patterns are printed in several languages. (I lived overseas, tho' not in Europe and we could always get Vogue patterns) Not all patterns may be available in all countries. Burda originates in Europe, and isn't there one that originates in Britain?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 12:09:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24406 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:09:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26825; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12086 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:23:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12074 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA24986 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3804BF5C.CEF75285@best.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:20:28 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns overseas References: <3804BB65.4327@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Susan Fatemi wrote: > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > ches@io.com wrote: > > > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > > > Do other countries have commercial pattern companies like we do? > > > > What I am getting at is, do they have the same kinda fad costume section > > like ours? > > > > They have the *same* pattern companies we do. That's why the > patterns are printed in several languages. (I lived overseas, > tho' not in Europe and we could always get Vogue patterns) > Not all patterns may be available in all countries. > > Burda originates in Europe, and isn't there one that > originates in Britain?? > > Susan F. > -- > Oh Noh! Kimonos! > susanf@netwiz.net > http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf How about smaller companies that produce historic patterns? Do you (or non-US members of h-costume) know if England and Europe have any we are not seeing here in the US? Fran Grimble _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 12:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24467 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01122; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18475 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:48:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18462 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port001.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.1]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA25652 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:48:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3804F186.1ABB1DE@ndh.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:54:32 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: patterns overseas X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FD7DC202DA0732F6AE1FC7E5" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------FD7DC202DA0732F6AE1FC7E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Burda originates in Europe, and isn't there one that > originates in Britain?? > Burda is a German company and they don`t have any useful historical costume patterns at all (except maybe one that was a special issue for the celebration of the 1848 democratic revoulution but it`s far from historically correct).All the costume patterns over here are intended for carnival use and are mostly Fantasy (clowns, pirates, animals etc.). Unfortunately we don`t even get the Simplicity costume patterns in our stores although the regular Simplicity patterns are available over here. But I`m very lucky to have nice people in the States getting them for me (thanks a lot, Kate !). Many greetings, Diana --------------FD7DC202DA0732F6AE1FC7E5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Burda originates in Europe, and isn't there one that
originates in Britain??
Burda is a German company and they don`t have any useful historical costume patterns at all (except maybe one that was a special issue for the celebration of the 1848 democratic revoulution but it`s far from historically correct).All the costume patterns over here are intended for carnival use and are mostly Fantasy
(clowns, pirates, animals etc.).

Unfortunately we don`t even get the Simplicity costume patterns in our stores although the regular Simplicity patterns are available over here.
But I`m very lucky to have nice people in the States getting them for me (thanks a lot,
Kate !).

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------FD7DC202DA0732F6AE1FC7E5-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:37:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24609 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14011; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03559 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:49:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03531 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA00068; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id LAA26956; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:49:33 -0700 Message-ID: <38057B3D.614A0C9B@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:42:06 -0700 From: Sally Norton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sohei@execpc.com, h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fencing garments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sally Norton I asked a friend at work who has fenced for years and is very active in competition today. He told me that in the 16th c. fencing was a form of fighting, not the elite sport we think of today. In the 16th c. a man did not have garments specifically for fencing. Sally Norton snorton@us.oracle.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24741 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00163; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24463 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:08:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24455 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:08:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6CGW0eD8bK (4364) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3de20385.2536409f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:07:59 EDT Subject: H-COST: zoot suit To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I can't remember the number of the Simplicity Zoot Suit, but it really exists. I don't have my Vogue pattern with me at the moment or I'd tell you the number. But you can see it on the cover of the current Vogue pattern book, which has a black and white photo of a couple in 1940s clothes. It appears a couple of times in the book, so I don't know why you can't find it -- unless your store has the old book, in which case it isn't there. While I'm on the subject . . . I am making the pants for my husband. I wouldn't attempt the jacket. It is without a doubt the worst sewing project I've ever taken on since our family baptismal gown -- also a Vogue. The instructions are awful. Follow them to the letter and you get: a mistake! I guess maybe they're geared toward people who have already made tailored suits, but for those of us that haven't, they STINK. The kids have been wonderful at playing while I sew, and if the instructions weren't awful I would be done by now. As it is, I've had to rip lots of things out and do them again. So beware. A little perspective, though: last night at 10:30 I was trying to do the left fly (after spending TWO HOURS on the right fly!). I assembled everything according to the directions and the picture, and it came out backwards. I made my husband look at the directions while I vented. "It says to put right sides together, and I did!" I screamed. "I made it look just like the picture and I sewed it together and it's backwards!" My dear husband was sympathetic, and then it said, "But I guess they were thinking you'd use lining fabric, which doesn't have a right side, instead of novelty cotton printed with grinning skulls." Too true. I ripped it out and reassembled it and now my skulls are inside-out. Gail Finke PS: It was really cheap, that's why. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 16:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24889 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:23:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14539; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17783 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:36:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17754 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:36:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PBC00dtnx (3975) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.2b1da926.2536553f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:35:59 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern Instruction sheets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Margo -- The one major problem I've had with various historical costume patterns is that the instructions suck! All of them. I personally would prefer an 8X11 booklet. La Mode Bagatelle does that with their Regency wardrobe, and while I find the instructions a bit obtuse, I like the format. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 16:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24916 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:46:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17620; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23618 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:00:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23604 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:00:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VDIa26506 (3975) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.a99186bd.25365aef@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:00:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines/Y2k To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have never heard of a Janome or seen one anywhere. Where does one get them? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 16:54:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24935 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:54:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18830; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25354 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:08:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25340 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.121.3]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991013220912.BEXZ13626.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:09:12 +0100 Message-ID: <380566F2.6970@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:15:30 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Lady in red skirt, was Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <2.2.16.19991012214844.3a7ff0a6@mail2.quiknet.com> <3804A71B.777A7E9C@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > The only picture I can find that approximates your description is on page > > 11; while I can see a gold-embroidered pattern around the bottom of the > > skirt, there does not seem to be any front opening. The pattern does have an > > Indian look to it. According to the caption, this picture is "said to be > > Arabella Stuart, wearing a jacket trimed with cutwork. Portrait attributed > > to Marcus Gheeraerts, c. 1605." This is just after Elizabeth's reign (she > > died in 1603). > > This is the one. I was going from my memory in my description not the picture in > front of me. Thanks for the clarification. I think a sari border would fall into > the realm of reasonable facsimile for this particular look. And did you notice? A > yellow ruff and cuff set. Yellow is pretty rare. Actually yellow, blue and red ruffs were very fashionable according to Janet Arnold and can be seen on quite a few portraits we just think it's old varnish in most cases. The yellow is acheived by adding Saffron to the starch. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:03:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24957 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20319; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28136 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28123 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.246.249.213] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11bWiI-0006Qd-00; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:17:39 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991013221412.00762ae8@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:14:12 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Fencing garments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 11:42 PM 10/13/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sally Norton > > >I asked a friend at work who has fenced for years and is very active in >competition today. He told me that in the 16th c. fencing was a form of >fighting, not the elite sport we think of today. In the 16th c. a man >did not >have garments specifically for fencing. > >Sally Norton >snorton@us.oracle.com > Fencing garments do exist in the 16th century. There is an example shown in Janet Arnolds book. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:03:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24966 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20322; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28159 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28149 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HCa006973 (3975) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5f99e6a1.25365ee5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:17:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com You should be able to get or order a hoop skirt at a bridal shop. Or try one of the bride's magazines. It should have ads for such things. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24970 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20489; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28366 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:18:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28358 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24942 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015b01bf15c9$6f904980$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sewing machines/Y2k Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:22:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I have never heard of a Janome or seen one anywhere. Where does one get them? > >Kathleen Norvell Are you in the US? They're sold here as "New Home." But in Canada they're Janome. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25135 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:23:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23481; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03210 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:37:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03175 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA22566; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38050A13.4A9CC1B6@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:39:16 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Lady in red skirt, was Re: H-COST: Sari Silk References: <2.2.16.19991012214844.3a7ff0a6@mail2.quiknet.com> <3804A71B.777A7E9C@serv.net> <380566F2.6970@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Actually yellow, blue and red ruffs were very fashionable according to > Janet Arnold and can be seen on quite a few portraits we just think it's > old varnish in most cases. The yellow is acheived by adding Saffron to > the starch. Well, I don't know about "we" thinking this about varnish. :) I certainly don't. I know that Arnold mentions it and they are around but I find the pictures in color very rarely. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:34:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25141 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25184; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05883 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:48:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05874 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18806 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:47:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:47:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199910132247.PAA18806@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: And the Winner Is... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Thanks to everyone who came up with suggestions for names for my pattern business. After long consideration, and finding that some of the suggestions I liked best were already in use, I have decided to go with my original idea of Regalia Costume Patterns. As I promised, I have done a random drawing from all those who suggested names, and the winner is Mellissa Depner. Melissa, please send me your snail address and I will send you a gift certificate for a free copy of the first pattern, when available. The business plan is done and goes in the mail to my potential investor tomorrow morning. Think happy thoughts, everyone, and if all goes well, good Elizabethan patterns will be on the market in about a year, to be followed by patterns for many other periods. Nervously, Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:46:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25180 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26698; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08455 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:00:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08427 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:59:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910132247.PAA18806@apollo.directcon.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:00:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: And the Winner Is... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Thanks to everyone who came up with suggestions for names for my pattern >business. After long consideration, and finding that some of the >suggestions I liked best were already in use, I have decided to go with my >original idea of Regalia Costume Patterns. > >As I promised, I have done a random drawing from all those who suggested >names, and the winner is Mellissa Depner. Melissa, please send me your >snail address and I will send you a gift certificate for a free copy of the >first pattern, when available. > >The business plan is done and goes in the mail to my potential investor >tomorrow morning. Think happy thoughts, everyone, and if all goes well, >good Elizabethan patterns will be on the market in about a year, to be >followed by patterns for many other periods. > >Nervously, > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > Best of luck to you, Margo. Remember that "one tough costumer" part while you wait for a reply; it should help a bit. LynnD With many good thoughts for you _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:38:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25355 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14295; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29646 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:52:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29632 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.7]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22639 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:52:40 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38057B3D.614A0C9B@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:52:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: Fencing garments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Sally Norton > > >I asked a friend at work who has fenced for years and is very active in >competition today. He told me that in the 16th c. fencing was a form of >fighting, not the elite sport we think of today. In the 16th c. a man >did not >have garments specifically for fencing. Thanks. I'll forward this to the person in question. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:41:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25372 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:41:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14641; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00614 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:55:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00585 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] ([209.207.57.7]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22647 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:55:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38057B3D.614A0C9B@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:55:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: Fencing garments--oops Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler I just noticed that you cleverly sent your mail both to the list and to the person needing help--thanks! Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 20:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25395 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16622; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03277 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:14:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03267 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.134.179] (AS52-40-235.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.135.235]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11680 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910132009.OAA24649@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: Re: patterns overseas Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens For those of you interested in commercial historical patterns, I will be carrying these effective January 1, 2000. At first I will have stock items in Past Patterns, Period Impressions, Kannik's Korners and Mill Farm. Expansion will take place throughout the year to encompass time periods from 500 AD through to 1950. As our company already ships internationally, to ship patterns internationally will not prove a challenge. regards Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage & fine hand-sewn garments http://www.5rivers.org e-mail: info@5rivers.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 20:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25412 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19451; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06680 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:37:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06669 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (pm3frd1-68-92.intrepid.net [206.102.68.92]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA04972 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:36:58 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991013214122.007c7570@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:41:22 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus In-Reply-To: References: <38028D2A.DCD7D7D4@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto I was not able to access this site. At 09:41 AM 10/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >I am so sorry for offending many of you. > >All opinions are welcome, including the male population of the list!! > >One of these days I will be politically correct... > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 20:44:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25450 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21846; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09989 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:58:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com [24.2.4.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09974 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991014015835.IQTU1945.mail.rdc1.ne.home.com@C59303A> for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:58:35 -0700 Message-ID: <005101bf15e7$9d355510$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <38028D2A.DCD7D7D4@pacbell.net> <3.0.3.32.19991013214122.007c7570@intrepid.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:56:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" What browser were you using? The stats showed that 42% of the shoppers and browsers of this site were IE 5.0 users, 23% IE 4.X, 30% Netscape 4.X, 3% Mac and the rest were misc. We had to decide how to create this site based on these stats and the steering committee decided that we would not support anything that would not support 128 encryption since we were going to take your credit card info. Certificates, yadda yadda yadda, and such are not compatible with lower browsers. So I apologize for the gross inconvience it may cause any of my fellow surfers. The shopping feature is now open, you all can register! Currently there is an Italian exhibit at the Dallas location with costumes from Italian operas through the ages. All are on loan from various opera houses in Europe. There is also a Leonardo d'Vinci exhibit that is interactive as well as 8x10 brasses that you can do rubbings off of. Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Shatto To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus > > -Poster: Sue Shatto > > I was not able to access this site. > > At 09:41 AM 10/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: ches@io.com > > > >I am so sorry for offending many of you. > > > >All opinions are welcome, including the male population of the list!! > > > >One of these days I will be politically correct... > > > >Sincerely, > >F. Havas > >ches@io.com > > > > Cordially, > > Sue Shatto > > Sue@VictorianMillinery.com > http://www.VictorianMillinery.com > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25502 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:28:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27171; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16674 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:42:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from marlo.eagle.ca (marlo.eagle.ca [206.186.242.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16664 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialin15.eagle.ca (dialin15.eagle.ca [206.186.242.240]) by marlo.eagle.ca (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA06500 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910140241.WAA06500@marlo.eagle.ca> X-Sender: mercury@eagle.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Alabaster Subject: H-COST: Quick trip to NYC Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Alabaster Hi I've been thinking about a weekend trip for my husband & I (& our 3 kids) in late October & was wondering if anyone had any ideas about interesting costume/museum outtings for us. The kids are 12,11,10 & would love to do some really fun stuff. I would like to drop by anywhere that has any costume exhibits, European Art (or a great fabric store). We'd also be looking for somewhere to stay -- fairly central & pretty CHEAP. Looking forward to any help you can offer (reply privately if you wish!) Thanks Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:34:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25513 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:34:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28032; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17545 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:48:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17534 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991014024820.POG26347.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:48:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:50:34 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991014024820.POG26347.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I was able but since I am not a *lady* I have no opinion on the site. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Sue Shatto >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus >Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999, 6:41 PM > > >-Poster: Sue Shatto > >I was not able to access this site. > >At 09:41 AM 10/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: ches@io.com >> >>I am so sorry for offending many of you. >> >>All opinions are welcome, including the male population of the list!! >> >>One of these days I will be politically correct... >> >>Sincerely, >>F. Havas >>ches@io.com >> > >Cordially, > >Sue Shatto > >Sue@VictorianMillinery.com >http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 07:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22778 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08247; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12979 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:39:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA12974 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Thu Oct 14 05:38:53 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:38:53 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit X-Sender-Ip: 205.188.198.38 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" I've been confused over the discussion of different zoot suit patterns, so I thought I'd try to define who makes what pattern, along with my own impression of each: 2367 is the Vogue zoot suit. It has princess seams in the back. In my eyes this is the superior pattern, however, it has the longest bunch of instructions I've ever seen and doesn't provide much in the way of tailoring. Be forwarned: a zoot suit is an advanced sewing project (more complicated than a regular suit). Make sure you are comfy working with welt pockets, lapel piecess and know how to roll lapels before taking this on. Also, it is only in the new Vogue catalogue--many stores may not have these out yet. 8879 is the Simplicity pattern. It is from their "retro" line. They do not identify it as a zoot suit, but as a "long suit." It is constructed like a regular men's jacket, but longer. It does not seem to have a true princess seams in the back. Lapels are modern (wrong shape, not just small). In my impression, it seems to have more simplified construction requirements, but it also doesn't look as tailored as the Vogue pattern... ...And to confuse things a little more: I made my first attempt from adapting Neue Mode Stil # V 22178. It is a tacky little outfit that looks kind of like a waiters uniform (not a zoot suit). It has princess seams in the front and back (I have vintage photos of this, so it is a correct, if not common option) and a wacky two-toned collar option). It needs to be extended, as it only is cut to the waist. Instructions are in pidgin English and German. Hope this helps everyone! Mary HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 08:02:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22834 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:02:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11210; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17685 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:16:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17675 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from speedy.excite.com ([199.172.152.78]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991007195141.KSFA26736.kuku@speedy.excite.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:51:41 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Cleaning Machines (was when to buy good thread Message-Id: <939325911.28049.622@excite.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:51:51 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Some repair technicians claim that this can cause problems by forcing lint > particles further into the mechanism. They say you should use one of those > nifty little vaccuum cleaners that computer people use. You can also buy a > kit of mini attachments for a full size canister vac, too. I have one of those attachment kits on order. As soon as it arrives, I intend to take it for a 'test drive'. If anyone is interested in a review, let me know and I'll post how well it works. Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 08:30:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22846 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14151; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21518 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:43:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21509 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:43:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PRZ0J31nT (4453) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.fef0fb9.253737e9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:43:05 EDT Subject: H-COST: bridal hoops for Elizabethan To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Last time I checked, the kind of hoops sold at bridal stores are more appropriate for Elizabethan than for antebellum, because they tend to have a cone shape rather than a bell shape. But they're still not quite right, and they're expensive, too! If you buy one, you might have to alter the hoops. You can usually make them smaller by pinning them -- the hoop part isn't usually a real circle, but a long stiff tape put into a channel. You can make it narrower, and you might have to if you want it to look right. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 09:00:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23115 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:00:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18075; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27544 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:14:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27532 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:14:07 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JGHa11406 (3939) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.a374a2d7.25373f0a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:13:30 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Quick trip to NYC To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << We'd also be looking for somewhere to stay -- fairly central & pretty CHEAP. >> The Hotel Pennsylvania is right across the street from Penn Station, which is great, but it's not the best place to stay in terms of no mold in your room! However, for NYC it's cheap. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 09:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23223 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:17:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20171; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01183 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:31:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01178 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:31:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Morses3@aol.com Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QXSa18036 (3954); Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.6ade9ee8.253742fd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:30:21 EDT Subject: H-COST: Costume Books on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com, sewinghistoric@onelist.com, menscostumes@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morses3@aol.com Sorry for the intrusion, but I just bought a collection of costume books from an estate, and I've listed the duplicates I already had on eBay as follows with low reserves just to pass them on. I hope someone who needs one gets a bargain! Look under seller : mayflower #181507166 "The Book of Costume" 2 volume boxed set by Millia Davenport, from the first printing #181510608 "Pictorial History of Costume" by Bruhn and Tilke #181514569 "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620" by Janet Arnold (with brown cover), signed by the author on the front page Thanks, Perry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 09:41:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23285 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23590; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06332 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:54:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06319 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port033.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.33]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id QAA27516 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:54:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <380503EA.F8CE6ED8@ndh.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:13:00 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Patterns overseas X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F2B4C0815198237E03D68668" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------F2B4C0815198237E03D68668 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For those of you interested in commercial historical patterns, I > will be carrying these effective January 1, 2000. At first I will have > stock items in Past Patterns, Period Impressions, Kannik's Korners and Mill > Farm. Expansion will take place throughout the year to encompass time > periods from 500 AD through to 1950. > > As our company already ships internationally, to ship patterns > internationally will not prove a challenge. > What is the name of your business and where are you situated ?Do you have a website ? (So many questions in one mail ;-)...). Many greetings, Diana --------------F2B4C0815198237E03D68668 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

 For those of you interested in commercial historical patterns, I
will be carrying these effective January 1, 2000. At first I will have
stock items in Past Patterns, Period Impressions, Kannik's Korners and Mill
Farm. Expansion will take place throughout the year to encompass time
periods from 500 AD through to 1950.

        As our company already ships internationally, to ship patterns
internationally will not prove a challenge.
What is the name of your business and where are you situated ?Do you have a website ?
(So many questions in one mail ;-)...).

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------F2B4C0815198237E03D68668-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 10:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23344 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:20:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01050; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17087 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:32:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17077 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.23] (ip23.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.23]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12783 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910141526.LAA12783@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: patterns overseas Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:37:28 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais For those of you interested in commercial historical patterns, I carry them now, and have been shipping overseas for over a year. I charge only actual shipping costs, adding no "handling" charge. I carry Period Patterns, Costume Connection, Alter Years, Past Patterns, Patterns of History, Kannik's Korner, Eagle's View, and Laughing Moon Mercantile, and am adding other lines of patterns as I discover them. You may browse our catalog at http://www.sewingcentral.com As an added benefit, I have made up many of the patterns I carry, and can help advise on their construction. We are in the process of enabling a shopping cart system on the website, to further ease the ordering process especially for our overseas customers. You may also want to check out my new silk page for silk noil at $6 a yard. I have not previously posted such a blatant commercial announcement. Lisa Brandt, owner Sewing Central/The Merlion's Tail Gary Stephens wrote: > >-Poster: Gary Stephens > > For those of you interested in commercial historical patterns, I >will be carrying these effective January 1, 2000. At first I will have >stock items in Past Patterns, Period Impressions, Kannik's Korners and Mill >Farm. Expansion will take place throughout the year to encompass time >periods from 500 AD through to 1950. > > As our company already ships internationally, to ship patterns >internationally will not prove a challenge. > >regards >Lorina Stephens > > >-------------------------------------- > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage & fine >hand-sewn garments http://www.5rivers.org e-mail: info@5rivers.org > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 10:45:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23388 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:45:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05884; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23990 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@[199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23973 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:58:39 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12544 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:57:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10150 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:57:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:57:53 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: patterns overseas In-Reply-To: <199910141526.LAA12783@williams.tricreations.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Is everyone missing the point of my post!?! I was not looking for merchants to sell them overseas I was looking for REAL pattern manufacutures overseas. If you are selling them to customers overseas change the subject line please. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 10:56:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23402 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07912; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:10:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.teleport.com (mail3.teleport.com [192.108.254.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27280 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23627 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 16:10:25 -0000 Received: from i48-21-16.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO teleport.com) (216.26.7.16) by mail3.teleport.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 16:10:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3805FE43.AFF28748@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:01:07 -0700 From: Stephen Fairman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quick trip to NYC References: <199910140241.WAA06500@marlo.eagle.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Fairman Alabaster wrote: > -Poster: Alabaster > > Hi > > I've been thinking about a weekend trip for my husband & I (& our 3 kids) in > late October & was wondering if anyone had any ideas about interesting > costume/museum outtings for us. The kids are 12,11,10 & would love to do > some really fun stuff. I would like to drop by anywhere that has any > costume exhibits, European Art (or a great fabric store). We'd also be > looking for somewhere to stay -- fairly central & pretty CHEAP. > > Looking forward to any help you can offer (reply privately if you wish!) > > Thanks > > Elizabeth I don't know if you can still do it but back in 1978, my wife, daughter, and I stayed at the YMCA, which was walking distance from the UN and Grand Central. I remember it being very cheap back then and family-friendly. Very modest rooms but you will only be sleeping in them. Esteban McLachan Shadow's Treasure Chest http://www.cyberis.net/~fairman1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:54:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23530 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17279; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12053 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:05:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12017 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:05:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Pandoorah@aol.com Received: from Pandoorah@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FCJa14284 (4197) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.7b29a028.2537672c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:04:44 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com Under this heading there were two books mentioned. One was the Anne Hollender book... (I think that was the author's name) but I have lost the information on the other one. If someone has that information could you please send it to me privately. Thank you, Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23645 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24387; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23373 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:48:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA23363 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:51:42 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Pourpoints & passe-poils Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:46:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bf166c$1a8b5080$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Does anyone know what "Passe-poils" are? The are only referenced in the plural; generally with either sort of pourpoint. The 15th c expression is typically something like: monies paid "pour faire une pourpoint passe-poils vert fonce assiettes grises". I've tried several french dictionaries but can only go back as far as Jean Nicot's "Thresor de la langue française" (1606) which says "Passe-poil. s. m. Petit bord de tafetas, de satin, ou d'autre estoffe, qui est different de celle de l'habit, & qui se met à l'endroit des coutures, & aux extrémitez de l'habit". This description is rather like contrasting piping or dagging set into a seam or as edging. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:47:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23658 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26116; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26102 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:00:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26085 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:00:13 -0600 (MDT) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general1.asu.edu (general1.asu.edu [129.219.10.145]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FJL007LSTTIIR@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general1.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03501 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:56:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:56:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: H-COST: Check this out! In-reply-to: <000101bf166c$1a8b5080$6b037a86@phoenix.com> X-Sender: innana@general1.asu.edu To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:56:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23680 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27471; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:09:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28038 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07147 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:08:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:08:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199910141808.LAA07147@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > Stop it, you're hurting me. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:58:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23688 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:58:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27920; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28661 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:12:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28643 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA07134; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38061D8D.E800A1DE@serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:14:38 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 ROTFL! 1200 - 1700??? okay, whatever. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:03:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23736 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29007; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29850 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29830 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991014182903.14073.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:29:03 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:29:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I'm terrefied... I definitely need to start making junk to sell on e-bay... my nice stuff won't sell, but look at the number of bids! Geez... sarah --- KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu wrote: > > -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:09:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23760 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00223; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01155 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Thu Oct 14 11:22:09 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:22:09 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.153 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" What a nightmare! It seemed like there were a zillion pieces in that pattern and the instructions just went on and on! I will start mine probably next weekend (I'm away to Boston this weekend). I'll let you know how mine go! Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:07:59 Gaelscot wrote: > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >I can't remember the number of the Simplicity Zoot Suit, but it really >exists. I don't have my Vogue pattern with me at the moment or I'd tell you >the number. But you can see it on the cover of the current Vogue pattern >book, which has a black and white photo of a couple in 1940s clothes. It >appears a couple of times in the book, so I don't know why you can't find it >-- unless your store has the old book, in which case it isn't there. > >While I'm on the subject . . . I am making the pants for my husband. I >wouldn't attempt the jacket. It is without a doubt the worst sewing project >I've ever taken on since our family baptismal gown -- also a Vogue. The >instructions are awful. Follow them to the letter and you get: a mistake! I >guess maybe they're geared toward people who have already made tailored >suits, but for those of us that haven't, they STINK. The kids have been >wonderful at playing while I sew, and if the instructions weren't awful I >would be done by now. As it is, I've had to rip lots of things out and do >them again. So beware. > >A little perspective, though: last night at 10:30 I was trying to do the left >fly (after spending TWO HOURS on the right fly!). I assembled everything >according to the directions and the picture, and it came out backwards. I >made my husband look at the directions while I vented. "It says to put right >sides together, and I did!" I screamed. "I made it look just like the picture >and I sewed it together and it's backwards!" My dear husband was sympathetic, >and then it said, "But I guess they were thinking you'd use lining fabric, >which doesn't have a right side, instead of novelty cotton printed with >grinning skulls." > >Too true. I ripped it out and reassembled it and now my skulls are inside-out. > >Gail Finke > >PS: It was really cheap, that's why. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23767 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29761; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00789 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:21:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00782 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn1.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.92]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29052 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <001701bad880$f358b340$5cf1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 12:39:57 -0700 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Oh dear. Margo, PLEASE hurry with your patterns...there's obviously a huge need....... Liadain, > > -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:12:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23779 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01068; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02036 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02007 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:26:54 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18702 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:26:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18747 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:26:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:26:47 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! In-Reply-To: <38061D8D.E800A1DE@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Ditto!! But still a nice picture, found it about the time she put it up and was the second bidder but lost it rather quickly. :) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:14:38 -0700 > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > > ROTFL! 1200 - 1700??? okay, whatever. > > Cynthia > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23801 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01494; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02753 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:29:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02719 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn1.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.92]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01082 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002b01bad882$222c8100$5cf1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <19991014182903.14073.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 12:48:27 -0700 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Excellent idea! We can all sell those gawdawful "First Attempts" on Ebay, and make enough money for a raid en masse on Britex.... Liadain, snickering....... > I'm terrefied... I definitely need to start making > junk to sell on e-bay... my nice stuff won't sell, but > look at the number of bids! Geez... > > sarah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23827 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02145; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03599 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:33:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03550 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:36:17 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Ebay wench-wear Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:31:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bf1672$54970750$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >This ensemble style is typical of middle class european ladies in the period from the 1200's to the 17'00's. Now *that's* versatile! ROFL! --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23837 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03526; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05667 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:42:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05655 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn1.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.92]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04058 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000d01bad883$e4643dc0$5cf1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <000201bf1672$54970750$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Ebay wench-wear Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 13:01:00 -0700 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" One wonders how the "middle-class LADIES" would feel about being referred to as "wenches", though.... Liadain, who will attempt to stop snarking now... > >This ensemble style is typical of middle class european ladies in the > period from the 1200's to the 17'00's. > > Now *that's* versatile! ROFL! > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > 408.570.1023 > Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com > Phoenix Technologies > 411 E. Plumeria Dr. > San Jose CA 95134 > "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give > the wrong answers." > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23841 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03763; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06104 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:44:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06093 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-194.s194.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.194]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12995 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:46:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Okay, I have been trying to figure out how to ask this question for weeks about this type of costume. Where did people come up with this idea of the front lacing bodice? Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:34:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23856 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04241; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06829 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mlt.net (mail.mlt.net [209.168.11.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06818 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mackie.com ([209.168.18.190]) by mail.mlt.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52697U300L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:44:26 -0700 Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:50:43 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:50:26 -0700 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Recent posts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA06822 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Greetings, I don't post often, in fact, hardly at all. But the last couple of comments relating to the garb for sale on ebay set me to thinking. I realize that the majority of the costumers on this list are experts (I, on the other hand, am not anywhere close to that.) However, I would respectfully ask people to stop and consider what they post and how it might be taken. I'll grant that the description could have been written to more appropriately describe the outfit. The person who has that outfit for sale may be on this list (or they may not). My point is that the commentary that just went on could intimidate or offend, or, at the very least, make newcomers or people who are not experts think that we are not interested in helping them improve. I know if I read comments like that about something I made, I would think long and hard about *ever* posting anything to this list. (I would post the comments, but I deleted the emails already...) Please don't flame me for this - I am just asking people to be considerate of others. Colleen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:37:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23866 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04626; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07607 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:50:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07593 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA08583; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3806267B.F67E240C@serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:52:43 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! References: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Okay, I have been trying to figure out how to ask this question for weeks > about this type of costume. Where did people come up with this idea of the > front lacing bodice? Probably from paintings like this. Granted the "wench" bodices aren't accurate but many of the bodices in these paintings do lace in the front. http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 13:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23875 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:41:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05184; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08501 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:54:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f312.hotmail.com [207.82.251.225]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08489 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90217 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1999 18:54:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19991014185413.90216.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 Ok - joke's over. Well I guess it could be a RenFaire costume (if it was decorated a bit) - but really. Denim-like? (eeeew) Allessandre / Karie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23901 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:06:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09697; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14419 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:19:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14405 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.158]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:18:55 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:15:00 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <380f2b5c.128008614@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19991014185413.90216.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19991014185413.90216.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA14410 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:13 PDT, the following was written in this electric book by "Karie Mitchell" : > >-Poster: "Karie Mitchell" > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > >Ok - joke's over. Well I guess it could be a RenFaire costume (if it was >decorated a bit) - but really. Denim-like? (eeeew) They probably mean twill. And if you take the hoop out, it's kind of an okay rennfaire boothie costume. Maybe if it wasn't laced up with white shoelaces. The hat's nice. But it doesn't go with the outfit. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:13:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23917 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10870; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16341 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16322 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:27:12 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6YJP0a2S3V (4412) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.e781a25.2537886d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:26:37 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 99-10-14 14:45:18 EDT, you write: << Where did people come up with this idea of the front lacing bodice? >> Off the top of my head I can cite the More Family portrait with the daughters in Tudor dresses that clearly show lacing in the front. I'm sure there are others. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24010 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25091; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:45:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05953 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:43:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05942 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:43:22 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17275 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:43:21 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30639 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:43:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:43:17 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: new pattern? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com McCalls has a pattern that I have never seen before http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg Is this new? What do you all think of it? What fixes can we do? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:34:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24014 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25583; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07143 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:48:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07129 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:48:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SHSa10996 (4228) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.7cd9bbd5.25379b6f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:47:43 EDT Subject: Was Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus, Now Gender Issues To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com "I was able but since I am not a *lady* I have no opinion on the site." I would just like to say that I, for one, am getting very tired of seeing responses to this effect every time someone addresses a post generally to the "ladies/women/girls/females" of the list. We all understand there are males on this list. That point was clearly made several months ago when this behavior began. However, everyone slips up in their postings from time to time, and Ches did send out a post apologizing for her error immediately after her initial post about the site. If the lady/gentleman thing is such a big deal and so offensive, then don't read the post that makes the error. Or better yet, just let it go. Please don't waste everyone's bandwidth by making comments such as the one above. It really serves no purpose. --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:52:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24027 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28851; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11057 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11016 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id OAA13869; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380645FB.272A8E96@serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:07:08 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cathedral , Historical Costume , scabarg@serv.net, Historic Needlework Subject: H-COST: Extant fabrics? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris So, if you had the opportunity to have a private tour of the Henry Art Gallery's costume and textile collection pre-1600 in Seattle would you travel far to do it? From Idaho? Oregon? Saskatchewan? I am thinking of trying to work out a tour with the curator and I have to know that I could get a sizable amount of people together to make it worth her while to come in on a Saturday, say 30-40. They have to un-store the things, then set them up, and then just be there. So, how many of you would be interested? Please respond to me privately for a head count. Do not respond to the lists. Thanks! Cynthia/Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:52:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24041 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:52:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28752; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10932 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:04:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10904 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16627 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:03:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3806453D.817D7AE3@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:04:33 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: new pattern? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg > > Is this new? What do you all think of it? What fixes can we do? To fix it, I'd recommend going out and buying Simplicity's Italian Ren, and never opening the McCall's. That said, I could see that it would work for someone who just wanted a halloween costume, without spending a lot of time on the more-accurate details that most of us on this list enjoy doing. cv -- October 12 is the day the UN figures that Earth's population will hit 6 Billion (6,000,000,000) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:53:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24051 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:53:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28706; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10858 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:04:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA10848 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:04:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:04:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.7cd9bbd5.25379b6f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:04:39 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: Was Re: H-COST: OT: Neiman Marcus, Now Gender Issues Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com > > >"I was able but since I am not a *lady* I have no opinion on the site." > > >I would just like to say that I, for one, am getting very tired of seeing >responses to this effect every time someone addresses a post generally to the >"ladies/women/girls/females" of the list. We all understand there are males >on this list. That point was clearly made several months ago when this >behavior began. However, everyone slips up in their postings from time to >time, and Ches did send out a post apologizing for her error immediately >after her initial post about the site. > >If the lady/gentleman thing is such a big deal and so offensive, then don't >read the post that makes the error. Or better yet, just let it go. Please >don't waste everyone's bandwidth by making comments such as the one above. >It really serves no purpose. > > >--Jen And I agree completely with Jen. And I'm hoping that he who was quoted in the first sentence was making a joke, however heavy-handed, and not simply an unkind posting. Listen, guys, we've been dealing with "the man's world' garbage throughout history; lighten up But, somehow, and more importantly, with an electrical outage during the night at work, I missed the original Neiman marcus posting. Would someone please mind repeating it? TIA, LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24071 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:58:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29813; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12756 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:11:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12736 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:11:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:11:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:12:24 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: new pattern? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: ches@io.com > >McCalls has a pattern that I have never seen before > >http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg > >Is this new? What do you all think of it? What fixes can we do? > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com > > This pattern is at least a year old; I remember seeing it last Halloween. A propos to the Check this out! suggestions, I can only suggest that anyone making this costume skip the Burger King crown. And it's perfectly lovely for Florida weather. (End of quote.) ;> LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:58:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24075 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29421; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12151 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:09:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12140 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991014210947.LNVN9958.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:09:47 -0700 Message-ID: <062f01bf1686$1c1db180$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:53:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" > > Greetings, > > I don't post often, in fact, hardly at all. But the last couple of comments relating to the garb for sale on ebay set me to thinking. > > I realize that the majority of the costumers on this list are experts (I, on the other hand, am not anywhere close to that.) However, I would respectfully ask people to stop and consider what they post and how it might be taken. > > I'll grant that the description could have been written to more appropriately describe the outfit. > > The person who has that outfit for sale may be on this list (or they may not). My point is that the commentary that just went on could intimidate or offend, or, at the very least, make newcomers or people who are not experts think that we are not interested in helping them improve. I know if I read comments like that about something I made, I would think long and hard about *ever* posting anything to this list. (I would post the comments, but I deleted the emails already...) > > Please don't flame me for this - I am just asking people to be considerate of others. > > Colleen > Greetings all, I have to agree with Colleen on this one. There are some things on Ebay where they are 50's dresses or standard off the rack old dresses that the seller probably thinks "this renaissance stuff is going quick and for high prices...I wanna get in on some of the action." These types make me cringe. They try and push off just about anything as "great for the renaissance fair". However there is another type out there. They are the new home seamstresses who are trying to make a few extra dollars. They buy store patterns, sew them and sell them to people who might otherwise have *nothing* even remotely atmospheric looking to wear to the renaissance fair or their first SCA event. I don't think these people, who are making a genuine effort and creating the garb themselves should be knocked. I looked at the photos and the garment appears to be well made with some attention to detail, like the matching waist pouch with a flap. Even the materials picked are better than alot of the Historic Clothing Businesses out there use. From the description I'm imagining it's a cotton twill. True, the person that put the url up might not be a regular member and might have been "advertising" to what was thought their intended market. That shouldn't have happened. But do be at least helpful in posts and point out pleasantly, what might have been down to make it more period or better sewn. I don't think anyone wants to chase away someone new to sewing and the SCA because they area worried that their efforts, which may not have been as good as the Ebay item in their eyes, will draw the same pointed tongues. ::lecture mode off:: Regards, ~Kyna Grannd Grannd Garb Historic Clothing Supplies and Accessories info@granndgarb.com http://GranndGarb.com ICQ#12859312 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:05:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24086 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:04:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00628; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13755 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:16:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13744 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhkyf11602 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:18:46 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:15:47 -0400 Subject: H-COST: Hair Shirt? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Hello all, My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of in the Middle Ages. Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, and I took that one step further to guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. (A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone out there know for sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. Thanks! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:10:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24092 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:10:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01657; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15058 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:21:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15044 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id OAA14521; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380649EB.30DE49FC@serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:23:55 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of in the Middle Ages. > Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, and I took that one step further to > guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. (A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone > out there know for sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. Being *no* expert on this, I will jump in with what I have heard. I was under the impression that the a hair shirt was a shirt made from the skin of a goat (I think) and then worn fur side in. I'd love to know the reality. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:21:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24098 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:21:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03649; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17685 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:33:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17660 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA30103 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:31:47 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:31:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199910142131.OAA30103@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A. I don't think these people, who are making a genuine effort and >creating the garb themselves should be knocked. I looked at the photos and >the garment appears to be well made with some attention to detail, like the >matching waist pouch with a flap. Even the materials picked are better than >alot of the Historic Clothing Businesses out there use. From the description >I'm imagining it's a cotton twill. > True, but I would have been more impressed if the seller hadn't told a flat out lie about the periods for which it was appropriate. And if she didn't know any better, she should have spent five minutes with a costume book to learn. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:45:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24131 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:45:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08472; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23533 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:59:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23519 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:59:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DJFa02562 (4563) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.84b2b157.2537ac10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:58:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Quick trip to NYC To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/14/99 4:11:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, fairmans@teleport.com writes: << Hi > > I've been thinking about a weekend trip for my husband & I (& our 3 kids) in > late October & was wondering if anyone had any ideas about interesting > costume/museum outtings for us. The kids are 12,11,10 & would love to do > some really fun stuff. I would like to drop by anywhere that has any > costume exhibits, European Art (or a great fabric store). We'd also be > looking for somewhere to stay -- fairly central & pretty CHEAP. > > Looking forward to any help you can offer (reply privately if you wish!) > > Thanks >> Hi, OK, The Metropolitan Museum of Art is spectacular...it has a costume gallery..not very big, but some nice stuff. When I was there right after Versacce died, they had an exhibit of his costumes that he had designed, but right now ( I was there in Ausgust) They have an exhibit of white garments through history. Starts about the time of Louis XIV and works foreward...all the dresses and clothing is in white...pretty spectacular....anyhow...I could ramble forever. When I go to NY, I always spend a day between there and The Cloisters. The Cloisters is the branch of the Metropolitan that deals with medieval art....it is fantastic if you like that time period....some wonderful samples of medieval velvets and brocades can be found there. Here is where The Unicorn Tapestries are housed. There weapons and all kinds of art stuff that might apeal to kids. You can catch the number 4 bus to the Cloisters...it's the last stop on the route before turning around....it's on the very northern? tip of manhatten if you catch the bus somewhere in the 30's ie 31st, 32nd st etc....you will get a really nice drive across the island. you will see some increadible churches on the route, as well as seeing the island it self. The Cloisters and the Met are closed on Monday, but on Saturday the Met closes at 9. What I do, is hit the Cloisters early when they open ( 9 or 10 I believe) and spend some time there, head out about 2 and take a bus back to The Met and spend some time there untill closing at 9. It's not ideal if you want to see everything, but It works if you only have a Saturday in which to see them. Along with everything else...The Met has an increadible armour exhibit...the kids might like this....swords, helms, plate armour, horse armour, all the trappings!!!! I'm not sure if this was posted yet, if so.....sorry, if not that's one of my suggestions. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:48:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24135 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09136; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24529 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:02:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24510 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:05:20 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bf168f$87ff8eb0$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Robin, and any of the other ladies & gents on the Pourpoint thread, There's an illumination on the inside front cover of "Parades et Parures", (Boccacio, "De Cleres at Nobles Femmes", circa 1402, BNF Paris). Wish I could find it online, but the BNF is not responding right now. Here's a verbal description: The Seducer: Knee-length houppeland, body portion black, assiettes bright pink, turning into bag sleeves? w/ yellow-green dagging; lined w/ brown fur; red-orange pointy toed boots. Demoiselle studying: Yellow (deep gold) houppeland, w/ safety orange lining visible inside dagged sleeve, matching orange belt, fitted sleeves of a deep purple cotte visible. My questions are these: Is his pink & black garment truly a houppeland even in this different cut? Is it a haincelin? Are the sleeves still cut in the same "grandes assiette manner"? If so, how does it turn into a bag? Is his dagging applied as trim, set into a seam I cant see or artistic license? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:50:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24141 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09365; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24884 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:03:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24828 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:03:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FCBa23354 (4563) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5c17a895.2537ad01@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:02:41 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com Oh dear......1200-1700.....hmmm, quite a versatile outfit I would assume Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 16:59:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24148 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:59:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10816; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27172 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:12:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27162 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:12:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6XPJseobI_ (4334) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.44ca24d1.2537af3c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:12:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Same Woman To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Yet another reason for me to go back to Bruges.... Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:17:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24164 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13494; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01784 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:31:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01763 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:31:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NOLa22487 (4334) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.9f298d5c.2537b3ad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:31:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 17th Century Groups (long) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Let me add to the list of 17th century reenactment groups: McLean's Company of O'Donnell's Regiment of Irishe Foote (English Civil War) c/o David S. Mallinak 4301 29th St. Mount Rainer, MD 20712 matchlck@erols.com I have been a member of this company for many years. I think we were the only group NOT mentioned in the Smoke & Fire article on the Battle of the Severn. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:17:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24168 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:17:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13562; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01953 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:32:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01924 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wiser.excite.com ([199.172.152.234]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991014223140.HJLJ24632.fortune.excite.com@wiser.excite.com> for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:31:40 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Extant fabrics? Message-Id: <939940300.19858.99@excite.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:31:40 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > So, if you had the opportunity to have a private tour of the Henry Art > Gallery's costume and textile collection pre-1600 in Seattle would you > travel far to do it? >From the moon, if need be! Heck, I'd even help 'em set the darn thing up! I hope this works out! (Gee, I use '!' a lot . . .) Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24182 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13919; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02596 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:35:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02588 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (1Cust248.tnt3.west-palm-beach.fl.da.uu.net [63.22.38.248]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA10032 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007901bf1694$e93b1f00$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica D. Pence" To: References: <199910142131.OAA30103@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:38:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica D. Pence" Colleen wrote: <...I would respectfully ask people to stop and consider what they post and how it might be taken...My point is that the commentary that just went on could intimidate or offend, or, at the very least, make newcomers or people who are not experts think that we are not interested in helping them improve... Kyna wrote: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24320 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15444; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05401 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:46:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05391 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (1Cust248.tnt3.west-palm-beach.fl.da.uu.net [63.22.38.248]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04560 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009601bf1696$808ea240$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica D. Pence" To: References: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> <3806267B.F67E240C@serv.net> Subject: H-COST: Front lacing bodices Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:49:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica D. Pence" Cynthia wrote: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24352 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:48:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18147; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09165 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:02:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09156 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA18548; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3806616D.8788791@serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:04:14 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Front lacing bodices References: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> <3806267B.F67E240C@serv.net> <009601bf1696$808ea240$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Granted the "wench" bodices aren't > accurate but many of the bodices in these paintings do lace in the front. > http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm > > I think I am confused. Aren't these "wench" bodices? How does a "wench" > bodice differ from the ones shown in the paintings? Wandering off into opinion territory here. This is my opinion. The ladies in these pictures are ladies with respectable jobs. They are not wenches. These are not wench bodices. The wench bodices I am familiar with here in my neck of the woods (An Tir/Seattle WA) lace tightly so that the edges of the fabric meet. The front edges of the fabric doesn't meet in those pictues. And the in the More Family portrait those front edges don't touch either. There is a good 5-6 inches of stomacher showing under the laces. Wench bodices don't do this. Many, many wench bodices here don't even cover the breasts but leave them hanging above or outside of the bodice front, only the chemise (underwear) covering them for modesty. Not very modest. Not what a respectable medieval woman would have worn. Not in my opinion. Ergo, wench. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 19:36:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24712 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03222; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00809 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:50:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00800 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:50:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6IGS.BnB1_ (4454) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.9f2a09ea.2537d416@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:49:26 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Hair shirts To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I recently saw a picture of one -- a saint's relic -- in a book about saints. It was a library book, but I think I still have it. I'll check and report tomorrow. But it was NOT any kind of skin worn hair-side in, it was knotted from what looked like twine, which was made out of some sort of hair. I don't think it was human hair, but I'm not sure. It looked kind of like one of those net produce bags, but it was definitely a shirt. Anyway, it caught my eye because I'd never seen one. And of course, this one may not be the way all hair shirts were made. More tomorrow -- Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 20:53:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24939 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12901; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12700 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:07:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12688 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.128.210] (AS52-05-210.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.128.210]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27508 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:07:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910141821.MAA00803@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: Re: Patterns (was patterns overseas) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Hi, Diana, >What is the name of your business and where are you situated ?Do you >have a website ? >(So many questions in one mail ;-)...). We're called Five Rivers Chapmanry, located in Orangeville, Ontario. Website is in the tagline. Apologies if you have difficulty getting in. Our provider has run across a difficulty and has assured me it will be corrected this evening. If you do have difficulty, please notify me and I will keep you apprised of my provider's progress. Patterns will not be on the website until mid-December. Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage & fine hand-sewn garments http://www.5rivers.org e-mail: info@5rivers.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:04:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25037 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:04:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20940; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23378 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:18:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22558 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:13:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-58.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJM001BMJJ3QV@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:11:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:10:59 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <38069B43.2A174BCF@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910142235.QAA02621@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Jessica Wilbur" > My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of >in the Middle Ages. Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, >and I took that one step further to guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. >(A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone out there know for >sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. That's easy. We have an example in St. Birgitta's hair shirt. (a description of which can be found at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/brgtagl.html). It's made from knotted hair from horse and cow tails. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25121 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24422; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:56:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29332 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:56:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29320 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.136]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07925 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:54:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:54:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199910150354.UAA07925@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >How do you know it is a "lie" and not just a mistake? How many discussions >has this list had about the inaccuracy of many costume books readily >available, especially for the medieval/renaissance period? I myself, have >learned from many here that some books I have read are wrong. Before I came >to this list, I had no idea of the importance of extensive research, sifting >through inaccuracies only to find more questions about what really did >exist. Then where do you go from there? The false information given in the >seller's description may very well have come from some of the incorrect >costuming books on the market today. > Well, I've been reading costume books, good and bad, for a lot of years, and I can't recall ever seeing one that would give the impression that a boned, laced bodice, drawstring necked smock, skirt worn over hoops, and flat cap would be "typical of middle class european ladies in the period from the 1200's to the 17'00's." However, out of curiousity, I have emailed the seller and asked her how she arrived at these dates. If she answers, I'll share her reply with the list. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:43:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25125 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:43:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24576; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29611 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:57:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29601 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21321 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-97.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.97]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20482 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00c501bf16c2$fd46b800$da41fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:08:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I can't seem to figure out why the reserve hasn't been met yet. When I looked at it it was at 138.00. I wonder how much the seller is wanting for it. It seems a little pricy to me but, I sew. As far as what Margo said about the '5 minutes to learn,' I wonder if the seller is quoting the pattern. That may have been the years quoted by the pattern producers. I am not sure where the pattern came from though. Michelle >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >A. I don't think these people, who are making a genuine effort and >>creating the garb themselves should be knocked. I looked at the photos and >>the garment appears to be well made with some attention to detail, like the >>matching waist pouch with a flap. Even the materials picked are better than >>alot of the Historic Clothing Businesses out there use. From the description >>I'm imagining it's a cotton twill. >> >True, but I would have been more impressed if the seller hadn't told a flat >out lie about the periods for which it was appropriate. And if she didn't >know any better, she should have spent five minutes with a costume book to >learn. > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:55:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25142 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:55:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25822; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01265 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:10:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01259 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-93.radiks.net [206.29.243.95]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA22014 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:08:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991014230512.03f200f4@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:05:12 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: NY trip In-Reply-To: <199910142235.QAA02621@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Don't forget the Bob Mackie exhibit (wish I could go-he's one of my favorite designers!) Bob Mackie is having a retrospective exhibit of his work starting today (Sept. 21) at Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) in NY. It will include 150 of his gowns, plus photos and videos as well as the outfits. Can anyone tell me if there's a book/catalogue? How to get it? TIA. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 23:43:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25303 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29338; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07153 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:55:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07148 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port68.imag.net [204.244.111.68]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA18290 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004001bf16c9$b7c2d5a0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:56:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" While not claiming in any way to be an expert, I have read (have forgotten sources) that horsehair (mane or tail) was woven or somehow knitted together. No doubt in the most uncomfortable way. I also recall that Hercules, in a recurring variation of the Greek myth, was killed by wearing a shirt woven of the poisoned hair of a Centaur. Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 14, 1999 2:23 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of in the Middle Ages. >> Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, and I took that one step further to >> guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. (A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone >> out there know for sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. > >Being *no* expert on this, I will jump in with what I have heard. > >I was under the impression that the a hair shirt was a shirt made from the skin of a goat (I >think) and then worn fur side in. > >I'd love to know the reality. > >Cynthia >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Beaumaris >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 14 23:50:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25318 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29922; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08380 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:05:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08374 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port68.imag.net [204.244.111.68]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19933 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005701bf16cb$0fe68140$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt?/Ebay Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:06:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Wow!! AM I ever glad that Marc has posted this, because it feels so good to have been on the right track with my earlier posting. Hate to lead anyone astray with wrong info. I looked at the Ebay site - and wished that more people that attended SCA events in my area got at least this close, or even cracked a book to see if the write up is at all accurate. We have a lot of fabulous costumers in the area who are willing to teach, but few new people seem to want to learn from them. My 2 pence worth, Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Marc Carlson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 14, 1999 8:19 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? > >-Poster: Marc Carlson > ><"Jessica Wilbur" >> My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of >>in the Middle Ages. Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, >>and I took that one step further to guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. >>(A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone out there know for >>sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. > >That's easy. We have an example in St. Birgitta's hair shirt. (a >description of which can be found at >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/brgtagl.html). > >It's made from knotted hair from horse and cow tails. > >Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:57:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25404 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03511; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA15640 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:10:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15634 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.136]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA20663 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:09:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:09:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199910150609.XAA20663@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson It's been pointed out to me that it was rude of me to say that the person selling the "1200-1700 Wench Dress" was lying when she wrote her description. I truly believed that no one could possibly get it this wrong without deliberate falsehood. However, I just got this email from the seller: >The dates as stated are incorrect, it's 1400's to 1700's Elizabethan >according to several SCA members who do that period and to the costume books >that I rely on for pictures. Okay, I take it back, some people (and, apparently, some books) really are that unknowing. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 01:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25433 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04601; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17526 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:30:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17519 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:30:42 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WDRa21033 (4253) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5fa7a417.253823f0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:30:08 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In rereading all the well-intentioned comments which are in opposition to the others of us on this list having fun at the expense of an obviously ill-informed E-bay seller, I have to say that I must take issue with the presumption that the seller should be treated with kid gloves. She is offering something for sale, and is putting forth the item together with a representation as to its authenticity. This is something about which we (the list) have a great deal of collective knowledge. It is fair game. It is not the same as attacking someone who came to this list for advice or offering an opinion. It is also really hard not to notice that anyone would state that any garment was appropriate to cover a 500-year time period under any circumstances. I think there is some burden of responsibility for accuracy in information incumbent on anyone who is trying to sell me something and who is claiming to know something about that item. I understand that the list should remain as pleasant a place as possible to exchange ideas, but it [the seller's claim] was an amusing statement, and since it was given under the guise of alleged knowledge about the suitability of an item which was for sale, I think its examination here totally appropriate. I honestly don't think it's worth all this much hoo hah. It just seems that if we cannot speak critically about "Historical Costume" (and that's just what the seller was claiming to be selling) then we should just up and disband now, folks. JMHO angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 02:09:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30537 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:09:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07337; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22640 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:23:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22631 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sammy.excite.com ([199.172.153.124]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991015072233.JZWR24632.fortune.excite.com@sammy.excite.com> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:22:33 -0700 From: "maureen+ brown" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns Message-Id: <939972154.26562.599@excite.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:22:34 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.138.6.133 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "maureen+ brown" Hi, I'm looking for a hakama pattern; I've found the Folkwear Pattern, Round Earth and Costume Connection ones. Does anyone know of any others and can anyone comment on these patterns? The Costume Connection one looks wrong (no pleats, added belt)..but it's hard to tell in the illustration. Thanks! --Maureen ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 03:38:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21996 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12473; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA00408 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:51:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00401 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:51:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SBTa03806 (4441) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.efdf9a79.253844fb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:51:07 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Trip To Seattle To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com Greetings Friends, Please allow me to apologize for the bandwidth, but I deleted the post regarding the textile "tour" in Seattle. For the record I WOULD travel to it. A days drive for myself & at least 4 or 5 others in our local costuming guild. Please e-mail me privately w/the information. Sorry to take up the space. Cheers Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 03:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22021 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13326; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02207 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:11:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02196 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-244.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.244]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21036 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38068D75.50507789@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:12:11 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: new pattern? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings Franchesca wrote: > McCalls has a pattern that I have never seen before > > http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg > > Is this new? What do you all think of it? What fixes can we do? I don't know if it's new, or how to fix it, but my first impressions were rather silly. I suppose the openings at the shoulder and forearm (should be elbow) are where the chemise is supposed to puff through, but at first glance, it looks like she got it caught on a door knob and just pulled. That would explain the hole in the forearm and the tear at the shoulder. :-} The one on the left, I'd at least switch the colors and make the chemise off-white and the overdress blue. Just musing, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 05:46:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22315 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:46:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17559; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05763 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:00:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05755 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.144.250] (ip250.dublin5.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.144.250]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA21613 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910151110.HAA21613@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:04:51 -0500 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais I carry the Costume Connection pattern. The hakama does have several large pleats stitched onto two belts, one that ties to the front, with an added trapezoidal shape in the back, and one that ties to the back. It makes up beautifully and looks comfortable to wear. The hakama take over 4 yards of 60" wide fabric, 4 7/8 in the larger sizes in 45". I would be interested in contact information for Round Earth to add them to the stock of the shop. Lisee www.sewingcentral.com maureen+ brown wrote: > >-Poster: "maureen+ brown" > >Hi, I'm looking for a hakama pattern; I've found the Folkwear Pattern, >Round Earth and Costume Connection ones. Does anyone know of any others and >can anyone comment on these patterns? The Costume Connection one looks >wrong (no pleats, added belt)..but it's hard to tell in the illustration. >Thanks! > > --Maureen > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 07:11:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22497 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22175; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14142 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:25:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14134 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991015122546.UAFU9958.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:25:46 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01bf1706$10f50940$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <0.5fa7a417.253823f0@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:09:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > In rereading all the well-intentioned comments which are in opposition to the > others of us on this list having fun at the expense of an obviously > ill-informed > E-bay seller, I have to say that I must take issue with the presumption that > the seller should be treated with kid gloves. She is offering something for > sale, and is putting forth the item together with a representation as to its > authenticity. This is something about which we (the list) have a great deal > of collective knowledge. It is fair game. It is not the same as attacking > someone who came to this list for advice or offering an opinion. It is also > really hard not to notice that anyone would state that any garment was > appropriate to cover a 500-year time period under any circumstances. I think > there is some burden of responsibility for accuracy in information incumbent > on anyone who is trying to sell me something and who is claiming to know > something about that item. > > I understand that the list should remain as pleasant a place as possible to > exchange ideas, but it [the seller's claim] was an amusing statement, and > since it was given under the guise of alleged knowledge about the suitability > of an item which was for sale, I think its examination here totally > appropriate. I honestly don't think it's worth all this much hoo hah. > > It just seems that if we cannot speak critically about "Historical Costume" > (and that's just what the seller was claiming to be selling) then we should > just up and disband now, folks. JMHO > > angela Very true Angela, and posts that do speak critically but constructfully are not what I was referring to. Margo was the only one that jumped in as a defense sort of, but I wasn't singling her out, hers at least listed something she thought incorrect as did some others. Unfortunately I just cleaned out my email folders about two days ago and don't have any of the comments saved. If I remember correctly some were along the lines of "can you believe their selling this" and seeming to laugh. No constructive criticism in that. It was just a suggestion that rather than making a comment which could be construed as laughing at the person, or catty and not giving a constructive reason why or suggestions as to what could have been done, the statement serves no purpose. ::shrugs:: If something is that bad in someone's eyes that it's below examination and constructive comment, perhaps it doesn't need comment at all. Because someone reading this list that doesn't know *why* folks are seeming to be I can't think of the right word, because cruel is too strong but I think you understand what I'm getting at. Comments like "Oh my gawd ::laughs::" might turn of a newer lurking member off, so that we never get to hear their questions and observations on *worthy* topics. I certainly wasn't suggesting that people not criticize....just that perhaps they should consider doing it in a constructive and helpful manner...for the sake of others on the list in this case, who may have thought there was nothing wrong with the scope of dates 1200-1700 for that dress. Last on that subject from me :::chuckles:: *it's* not worthy of a huge debate and taking the lists time...I just wanted to clarify. ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 07:30:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22552 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:30:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24562; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16446 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:44:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA16437 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:44:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991015125634.11471.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:56:34 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: new pattern? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I bought this pattern for the underdress... but I figured out that if you have any talent at patterning for yourself whatsoever, it was alltogether unnecessary... but for some people who don't have that knack, it was okay... but I must say, I really don't like the overdress... personal preference... Sarah --- Dietmar wrote: > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings Franchesca wrote: > > > McCalls has a pattern that I have never seen > before > > > > http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg > > > > Is this new? What do you all think of it? What > fixes can we do? > > I don't know if it's new, or how to fix it, but my > first impressions were > rather silly. I suppose the openings at the shoulder > and forearm (should be > elbow) are where the chemise is supposed to puff > through, but at first glance, > it looks like she got it caught on a door knob and > just pulled. That would > explain the hole in the forearm and the tear at the > shoulder. :-} > > The one on the left, I'd at least switch the colors > and make the chemise > off-white and the overdress blue. > > Just musing, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 07:52:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22620 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26693; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19212 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:05:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19203 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camelot (ip142.houston13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.213.142]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA00676 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <017801bf170e$b173cac0$6c6b1f26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <0.5fa7a417.253823f0@aol.com> <002b01bf1706$10f50940$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:10:33 -0500 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" As a new arrival with the SCA and an ademate lurker, I want you to know that I got the BEST laugh out of this one and the starting comments about the garment. In fact, I did not get irritated until the members of the list began slamming each other. Please---let's just laugh and have some fun with it ! I happen to agree that someone who presents themself as an expert and gives incorrect information has left themselves open for any insuing comments and the information about how incorrect the dress was might have saved a new SCA mamber from purchasing the gown and thinking it would be appropriate for their time period. Back to lurking ! Gwinevere ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyna Grannd To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:09 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts > > -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > > > > > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > > > In rereading all the well-intentioned comments which are in opposition to > the > > others of us on this list having fun at the expense of an obviously > > ill-informed > > E-bay seller, I have to say that I must take issue with the presumption > that > > the seller should be treated with kid gloves. She is offering something > for > > sale, and is putting forth the item together with a representation as to > its > > authenticity. This is something about which we (the list) have a great > deal > > of collective knowledge. It is fair game. It is not the same as > attacking > > someone who came to this list for advice or offering an opinion. It is > also > > really hard not to notice that anyone would state that any garment was > > appropriate to cover a 500-year time period under any circumstances. I > think > > there is some burden of responsibility for accuracy in information > incumbent > > on anyone who is trying to sell me something and who is claiming to know > > something about that item. > > > > I understand that the list should remain as pleasant a place as possible > to > > exchange ideas, but it [the seller's claim] was an amusing statement, and > > since it was given under the guise of alleged knowledge about the > suitability > > of an item which was for sale, I think its examination here totally > > appropriate. I honestly don't think it's worth all this much hoo hah. > > > > It just seems that if we cannot speak critically about "Historical > Costume" > > (and that's just what the seller was claiming to be selling) then we > should > > just up and disband now, folks. JMHO > > > > angela > > > Very true Angela, and posts that do speak critically but constructfully are > not what I was referring to. Margo was the only one that jumped in as a > defense sort of, but I wasn't singling her out, hers at least listed > something she thought incorrect as did some others. Unfortunately I just > cleaned out my email folders about two days ago and don't have any of the > comments saved. If I remember correctly some were along the lines of "can > you believe their selling this" and seeming to laugh. No constructive > criticism in that. It was just a suggestion that rather than making a > comment which could be construed as laughing at the person, or catty and not > giving a constructive reason why or suggestions as to what could have been > done, the statement serves no purpose. ::shrugs:: If something is that bad > in someone's eyes that it's below examination and constructive comment, > perhaps it doesn't need comment at all. Because someone reading this list > that doesn't know *why* folks are seeming to be I can't think of the right > word, because cruel is too strong but I think you understand what I'm > getting at. Comments like "Oh my gawd ::laughs::" might turn of a newer > lurking member off, so that we never get to hear their questions and > observations on *worthy* topics. I certainly wasn't suggesting that people > not criticize....just that perhaps they should consider doing it in a > constructive and helpful manner...for the sake of others on the list in this > case, who may have thought there was nothing wrong with the scope of dates > 1200-1700 for that dress. > > Last on that subject from me :::chuckles:: *it's* not worthy of a huge > debate and taking the lists time...I just wanted to clarify. > > ~Kyna > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 07:59:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22630 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27493; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20603 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:14:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20591 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991015132612.10588.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:26:12 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Okay, I will apologize for my earlier post... but I guess it just irritates me... I tried the e-bay thing... I did both "historical" and "fantasy" stuff... but I tried my hardest to use really good quality materials and quality work... but I never got a bid higher than $10... and then I see something that is described as a "denim material" going for those kind of prices... it is frustrating! I have no problem with people doing what they want as far as costuming, I guess I just have a problem with how people approach their purchases. Again, I apologize if I offended... Sarah --- "Diane M. Mathews" wrote: > > -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" > > > As a new arrival with the SCA and an ademate lurker, > I want you to know that > I got the BEST laugh out of this one and the > starting comments about the > garment. In fact, I did not get irritated until the > members of the list > began slamming each other. Please---let's just > laugh and have some fun with > it ! I happen to agree that someone who presents > themself as an expert and > gives incorrect information has left themselves open > for any insuing > comments and the information about how incorrect the > dress was might have > saved a new SCA mamber from purchasing the gown and > thinking it would be > appropriate for their time period. Back to lurking > ! > > Gwinevere > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kyna Grannd > To: > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:09 AM > Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts > > > > > > -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > > > > > In rereading all the well-intentioned comments > which are in opposition > to > > the > > > others of us on this list having fun at the > expense of an obviously > > > ill-informed > > > E-bay seller, I have to say that I must take > issue with the presumption > > that > > > the seller should be treated with kid gloves. > She is offering something > > for > > > sale, and is putting forth the item together > with a representation as to > > its > > > authenticity. This is something about which we > (the list) have a great > > deal > > > of collective knowledge. It is fair game. It > is not the same as > > attacking > > > someone who came to this list for advice or > offering an opinion. It is > > also > > > really hard not to notice that anyone would > state that any garment was > > > appropriate to cover a 500-year time period > under any circumstances. I > > think > > > there is some burden of responsibility for > accuracy in information > > incumbent > > > on anyone who is trying to sell me something and > who is claiming to know > > > something about that item. > > > > > > I understand that the list should remain as > pleasant a place as possible > > to > > > exchange ideas, but it [the seller's claim] was > an amusing statement, > and > > > since it was given under the guise of alleged > knowledge about the > > suitability > > > of an item which was for sale, I think its > examination here totally > > > appropriate. I honestly don't think it's worth > all this much hoo hah. > > > > > > It just seems that if we cannot speak critically > about "Historical > > Costume" > > > (and that's just what the seller was claiming to > be selling) then we > > should > > > just up and disband now, folks. JMHO > > > > > > angela > > > > > > Very true Angela, and posts that do speak > critically but constructfully > are > > not what I was referring to. Margo was the only > one that jumped in as a > > defense sort of, but I wasn't singling her out, > hers at least listed > > something she thought incorrect as did some > others. Unfortunately I just > > cleaned out my email folders about two days ago > and don't have any of the > > comments saved. If I remember correctly some were > along the lines of "can > > you believe their selling this" and seeming to > laugh. No constructive > > criticism in that. It was just a suggestion that > rather than making a > > comment which could be construed as laughing at > the person, or catty and > not > > giving a constructive reason why or suggestions as > to what could have been > > done, the statement serves no purpose. ::shrugs:: > If something is that bad > > in someone's eyes that it's below examination and > constructive comment, > > perhaps it doesn't need comment at all. Because > someone reading this list > > that doesn't know *why* folks are seeming to be I > can't think of the right > > word, because cruel is too strong but I think you > understand what I'm > > getting at. Comments like "Oh my gawd ::laughs::" > might turn of a newer > > lurking member off, so that we never get to hear > their questions and > > observations on *worthy* topics. I certainly > wasn't suggesting that people > > not criticize....just that perhaps they should > consider doing it in a > > constructive and helpful manner...for the sake of > others on the list in > this > > case, who may have thought there was nothing wrong > with the scope of dates > > 1200-1700 for that dress. > > > > Last on that subject from me :::chuckles:: *it's* > not worthy of a huge > > debate and taking the lists time...I just wanted > to clarify. > > > > ~Kyna > > ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22652 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:10:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28242; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21955 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:22:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21947 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.146] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11c7JD-0002B5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:22:12 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:17:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts In-Reply-To: <199910150609.XAA20663@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:09 PM 10/14/1999 -0700, you wrote:-Poster: Margo Anderson However, I just got this email from the seller: The dates as stated are incorrect, it's 1400's to 1700's Elizabethan according to several SCA members who do that period and to the costume books that I rely on for pictures. It's embarrassing that someone who is a member of the SCA would give her that range of dates, esp. since the SCA 'period' is Medieval/Early Renaissance, and thus is not generally considered to extend much past 1650, although the corpora of the Society was made to flex and some do extend the dates, preferring to enact the Cavalier period. It is exactly this sort of incident that gives many in the scholarly community/academia the impression that people in the SCA don't bother to research. Most of the people with whom I interact in the SCA do research meticulously for the delight of it, but one example like this one does much to perpetuate the stereotype of SCA as a place to dress up and party and not for serious work. It would be useful to have a bibliography of the costuming books this lady is relying upon for her information. Perhaps the lady will now look for other sources. It will also make me even more exacting about any information may I give others, so that there will be little room for such inaccuracies / for possible misinterpretation to creep in. Thanks, Margo. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22663 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29024; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:31:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23166 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:30:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23158 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:30:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Morses3@aol.com Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QDVa11406 (4534) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.72c0f511.25388652@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:29:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts VERY LONG To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morses3@aol.com I've read all the posts concerning this item listed on eBay and I feel like I need to delurk and mention a few things.... I am a full time antique dealer and I've been selling on eBay for over a year in addition to my other outlets. I have a feedback rating of over 600, so I've completed a few transactions and might be able to shed some perspective here. First of all, I absolutely believe that if a person assumes the responsibility to sell merchandise to the public, that they also assume the responsibility to be an informed seller and present their merchandise correctly and with the best information possible. I have to agree with the posts about the information in the listing mentioned that was, politely, inaccurate. I know that many people feel like someone should not be "slammed", perhaps because it's a first effort, etc., and that's all fine in the arena of presenting something as part of a hobby. Once you cross over the line into selling, you assume a different role with different obligations to the people to whom you are selling. To address the point of others selling on eBay and not having their merchandise well received, I can only say welcome to the world of selling. I often find that when dealing with the public, my own taste concerning merchandise is more evolved (if for no other reason than the fact that I'm more exposed to the merchandise regularly than they are), and often the best things don't get the attention they receive. (I also try to use this to my advantage and buy those things when I see them :-) ) eBay, even more than other methods of selling, makes this true. Sometimes, things don't photograph well, sometimes the copy isn't written to enhance the item properly, and sometimes, everything is great, but the right buyers just aren't there THAT MINUTE. Remember, it's an auction and the dynamic of buying and selling is different from it would be in a shop or booth at a show. I think it's important for everyone to remember not to take this personally and let their feeling get hurt. For the seller, they SHOULD be better informed if they are in business, which is the position they put themselves in when they offered to sell to the public at large. For others selling more accurate or "better" merchandise, I say don't give up, maybe you just haven't hit the right combination yet (and remember, you have to sell what others want to buy, not what you want to sell them). Perry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22707 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02915; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29530 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29523; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910151407.IAA29523@net.indra.com> From: "Leed, Drea" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Stubbes on Jerkins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Leed, Drea" And just to throw another fish into the pot, here's a quote from Phillip Stubbes (Elizabethan commentator extroardinaire) on the subject (written in 1583:) "Their coates and Jerkins, as they be diverse in colors, so be they diverse in fashions; for some be made with colors, some without, some close to the bodie, some loose, covering the whole body downe to the theighe, like baggs or sacks that weare drawen over them, hidinge the dimensions and proportions of the body: some are buttened down the brest, some under the arm, and some downe the back; some with flappes over the brest, some without, some with great sleeves, some with small, and some with non at all; some pleated and crested behind, and curiously gathered; some not so; & how many days so many sortes of apparell some one man will have, and thinketh it good provision in faire weather to lay up against a storme! " >Several people have emailed me asking where they can find Janet Arnold's >discussion of jerkins and doublets. Look on page 144 of Queen Elizabeth's >Wardrobe Unlocked. (yes, I know this is a book on one woman's clothing, but >she's discussing men's clothing in relation to the fashion of women wearing >doublets and jerkins.) >She discusses doublets, jerkins, and the fact that it is difficult to >distinguish between the two. The idea that it is a matter of sleeved vs >unsleeved is dispelled, however it may have been that a doublet had the >sleeves sewn in and a jerkin had detachable sleeves. Just to confuse >matters even more, there's a reference to a "doublet made jerkinwise". Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:03:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22726 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03697; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01629 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:16:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01621; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910151416.IAA01621@net.indra.com> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Quick trip to NYC Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kendra Van Cleave" Not sure if anyone has replied re: costume museums, so I wanted to recommend the Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of art (http://www.costumeinstitute.org/), the Museum of the City of New York (http://www.mcny.org/) and the museum at the Fashion Institute of Technology (http://www.fitnyc.suny.edu/happening/6.0.html). Have fun! Kendra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22730 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:04:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03782; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01762 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01754 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:17:07 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24193 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:17:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14103 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:17:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:17:06 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns In-Reply-To: <939972154.26562.599@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I have a theatrical costume book that has a good one that I use. I tweak it a little but then when don't we. I can put a schetch of it on my costume site for you tonight to see if it would work. If so I would recomment the book for you to get. It has no instructions other than how to enlarge the pattern to whatever size you need it but since I have made several I am will to help you. However, I highly recommend the folkwear one, everyone has it for sale on their pattern site, it is 16.00 at the cheapest so shop around, I have seen too many sites with it at 25.00 not including shipping! Email me privately if you want the site that has it at the lower price. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, maureen+ brown wrote: > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:22:34 PDT > From: maureen+ brown > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns > > > -Poster: "maureen+ brown" > > Hi, I'm looking for a hakama pattern; I've found the Folkwear Pattern, > Round Earth and Costume Connection ones. Does anyone know of any others and > can anyone comment on these patterns? The Costume Connection one looks > wrong (no pleats, added belt)..but it's hard to tell in the illustration. > Thanks! > > --Maureen > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22736 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:12:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04374; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02864 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:22:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02846; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.82.30] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A77FA2FE012A; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:17:35 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01bf1718$d25e1ba0$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: , , Subject: H-COST: Breast Cancer Fundraiser (OT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:23:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF16F7.496EE200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF16F7.496EE200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MabelHello dear list, I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, especially those of = you who receive the cross-postings! This message arrived from another = of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to you all here, since = these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen have mothers, = and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as well. =3D) ) Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful weekend! Kerrie Subject: Breast Cancer Please read and pass on. It would be wonderful if 1999 were the year a cure for breast cancer was found!!!! This is one note I'll gladly pass on. The notion that we could raise $16 million by buying a book of stamps is powerful! As you may be aware, October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. The U.S. Postal Service recently released its "Fund the Cure" stamp to help fund breast cancer research. The stamp was designed by Ethel = Kessler of Bethesda, Maryland. It is important that we take a stand against = this disease that kills and maims so many of our mothers, sisters, = friends. Instead of the normal $.33 for a stamp, this one costs $.40. The additional $.07 will go to breast cancer research. A "normal" book costs $6.60. This one is only $8.00. It takes a few minutes in line at the = Post Office and means so much. If all stamps are sold, it will raise an additional $16,000,000 for this vital research! Just as important as = the money is our support. What a statement it would make if the stamp = outsold the lottery this week. What a statement it would make that we care. I urge each of you to do two things TODAY: 1. Go out and purchase some of these stamps. 2. E-mail your friends to do the same. Many of us know women and their families whose lives are turned upside-down by breast cancer. It takes so little to do so much in this drive. Please help! ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF16F7.496EE200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel

Hello dear list,
I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, = especially=20 those of you who receive the cross-postings!  This = message arrived=20 from another of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to you = all=20 here, since these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen = have=20 mothers, and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as = well. =3D)=20 )
 
Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful = weekend!
Kerrie

Subject: Breast Cancer

Please read and pass on.  It would be wonderful if 1999=20 were
the year a cure for breast cancer was found!!!!

This is one note I'll gladly pass on.  The notion that = we
could=20 raise $16 million by buying a book of stamps  is powerful!

As you may be aware, October is Breast Cancer Awareness = Month.
The=20 U.S. Postal Service recently released its "Fund the Cure" stamp = to
help fund=20 breast cancer research. The stamp was designed by Ethel Kessler
of = Bethesda,=20 Maryland.   It is important that we take a stand against this = disease=20 that kills and maims so many of our mothers, sisters, = friends.
Instead of the=20 normal $.33 for a stamp, this one costs $.40.  The
additional = $.07 will=20 go to breast cancer research. A "normal" book costs
$6.60.  This = one is=20 only $8.00.  It takes a few minutes in line at the Post
Office = and means=20 so much. If all stamps are sold, it will raise an
additional = $16,000,000 for=20 this vital research!  Just as important  as the
money is = our=20 support. What a statement it would make if the stamp outsold
the = lottery this=20 week. What a statement it would make that we care.

I urge each of = you to=20 do two things TODAY:
1. Go out and purchase some of these = stamps.
2.=20 E-mail your friends to do the same.

Many of us know women and their families whose lives = are
turned=20 upside-down by breast cancer.  It takes so little to do so
much = in this=20 drive. Please help!

 
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF16F7.496EE200-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:14:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22740 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04828; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03572 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:25:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from futureone.com (root@future.futureone.com [209.250.0.132]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03562 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (ppp2-170.presc.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.8.170]) by futureone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA27223 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:25:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <005301bf171a$72dc6c20$aa08fad1@pavilion> From: "RSewellBrown" To: Subject: H-COST: recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:34:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF16DF.C5AC8880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "RSewellBrown" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF16DF.C5AC8880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 To: MzScahlett@aol.com=20 Well said! It is not a crime,yet, to be well educated and to poke a = little mild fun at someone who professes to be and obviously isn't. Thanks for your courageously un-p.c. reply. We have not all been = assimilated yet! Rebecca ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF16DF.C5AC8880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20

Well said!  It is not a crime,yet, to be = well=20 educated and to poke a little mild fun at someone who professes to be = and=20 obviously isn't.
 
Thanks for your courageously un-p.c. reply.  We have not all = been=20 assimilated yet!
 
Rebecca
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF16DF.C5AC8880-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:24:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22753 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06713; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06466 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:36:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06459; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.82.30] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAE69388011E; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:32:06 -0400 Message-ID: <006e01bf171a$d93b6480$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: Breast Cancer Fundraiser (OT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:37:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF16F9.51265E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF16F9.51265E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel Hello dear list, I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, especially those of = you who receive the cross-postings! This message arrived from another = of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to you all here, since = these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen have mothers, = and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as well. =3D) ) Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful weekend! Kerrie Subject: Breast Cancer Please read and pass on. It would be wonderful if 1999 were the year a cure for breast cancer was found!!!! This is one note I'll gladly pass on. The notion that we could raise $16 million by buying a book of stamps is powerful! As you may be aware, October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. The U.S. Postal Service recently released its "Fund the Cure" stamp to help fund breast cancer research. The stamp was designed by Ethel = Kessler of Bethesda, Maryland. It is important that we take a stand against = this disease that kills and maims so many of our mothers, sisters, = friends. Instead of the normal $.33 for a stamp, this one costs $.40. The additional $.07 will go to breast cancer research. A "normal" book costs $6.60. This one is only $8.00. It takes a few minutes in line at the = Post Office and means so much. If all stamps are sold, it will raise an additional $16,000,000 for this vital research! Just as important as = the money is our support. What a statement it would make if the stamp = outsold the lottery this week. What a statement it would make that we care. I urge each of you to do two things TODAY: 1. Go out and purchase some of these stamps. 2. E-mail your friends to do the same. Many of us know women and their families whose lives are turned upside-down by breast cancer. It takes so little to do so much in this drive. Please help! ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF16F9.51265E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel
 

Hello dear list,
I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, = especially=20 those of you who receive the cross-postings!  This = message arrived=20 from another of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to you = all=20 here, since these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen = have=20 mothers, and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as = well. =3D)=20 )
 
Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful = weekend!
Kerrie

Subject: Breast Cancer

Please read and pass on.  It would be wonderful if 1999=20 were
the year a cure for breast cancer was found!!!!

This is one note I'll gladly pass on.  The notion that = we
could=20 raise $16 million by buying a book of stamps  is powerful!

As you may be aware, October is Breast Cancer Awareness = Month.
The=20 U.S. Postal Service recently released its "Fund the Cure" stamp = to
help fund=20 breast cancer research. The stamp was designed by Ethel Kessler
of = Bethesda,=20 Maryland.   It is important that we take a stand against this = disease=20 that kills and maims so many of our mothers, sisters, = friends.
Instead of the=20 normal $.33 for a stamp, this one costs $.40.  The
additional = $.07 will=20 go to breast cancer research. A "normal" book costs
$6.60.  This = one is=20 only $8.00.  It takes a few minutes in line at the Post
Office = and means=20 so much. If all stamps are sold, it will raise an
additional = $16,000,000 for=20 this vital research!  Just as important  as the
money is = our=20 support. What a statement it would make if the stamp outsold
the = lottery this=20 week. What a statement it would make that we care.

I urge each of = you to=20 do two things TODAY:
1. Go out and purchase some of these = stamps.
2.=20 E-mail your friends to do the same.

Many of us know women and their families whose lives = are
turned=20 upside-down by breast cancer.  It takes so little to do so
much = in this=20 drive. Please help!

 

 
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF16F9.51265E40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:35:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22767 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:35:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08276; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09283 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:48:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09271 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Fri Oct 15 07:47:39 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:47:39 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.145.88 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" I would like to support Kyna that the topic had got out of hand. It really is not polite to talk about a person's actions in a forum where they do not have a chance to see the critique or respond directly. Regardless of technical expertise or even being right, it is hurtful. Then again, there is a really tough line to draw from when discussion is constructive (like sharing critiques of patterns) and hurtful. Sometimes I don't know myself when I go over the line... For instance, if I were a pattern drafter, I would be especially upset if I read when someone wrote a bad review my pattern--I wouldn't know if this person were out of their technical depth or if he/she just plain didn't follow instructions. I know of another email list that has descended into petty squabbles over historical accuracy. For some folk, I geuss this is a compelling debate. For me, it was like having a contentious argument intrude on in my life a couple times a day. I got weary and unsubscribed. Some of my most embarassing moments have come from making stupid assertions unknowingly to genuine experts. The experts who got me as their true disciples were the ones who corrected me gently and kept my ignorance in confidence. I really don't like making stupid mistakes and I'd really rather minimize the times I've made them. Anyhow, I think this really isn't a contentous listserve. Generally, we only talk about ourselves. I'm staying subscribed, guys and gals! Also, one other point. I'm not an SCA'er, but one of the things I have respected most about that organization is the "A" in "SCA"--anachronism. From the very start, it seems that SCA has had a understanding of the intrinsinctly anachronistic side of reenacting. Within this there are various ranges of accuracy and assumptions--but they are all anachronisms. We don't live in (and events aren't occuring in) a past time, so at best, reenacting can only be an impression--not a recreation of a past time. I think this is truly to SCA's credit--sadly, an element that frequently is ignored in other reenacting activities. It really gets disturbing when people bring contentious modern concerns out and use reenacting as a forum for advocacy. Well, that is another topic for discussion... Over and out, Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22777 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09292; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:56:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10916 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:54:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10910 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21801 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380740D8.88652BD1@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:57:28 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns References: <939972154.26562.599@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I used the Folkwear Pattern for a Production of "The Mikado". It isn't really a "pattern", but a set of instructions on how to draft it for various sizes. My husband reduced it to a formula so we could just put the body measurements into the computer and it came up with the correct distances between points for each person. Since they varied from waist 24" to 63" and there were about 20 pants to make, this was helpful. Instructions were simple enough for my "mixed bag" of volunteer sewers. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22791 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:56:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11387; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14157 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:07:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14125 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20533 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:16:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07716 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:17:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:17:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts In-Reply-To: <199910150609.XAA20663@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton This whole discussion got me curious to finally look up this thing to see just what was being offered for sale, and how it was represented. I don't need to repeat the other opinions on the list -- I think most of us can see the errors. But the statement the lady gave Margo was enlightening: > >The dates as stated are incorrect, it's 1400's to 1700's Elizabethan > >according to several SCA members who do that period and to the costume books > >that I rely on for pictures. I wouldn't be too harsh on the SCA for this one, at least not without further detail. (I don't think there are many in the SCA who would refer to "1400s Elizabethan.") But I can envision a scenario that would explain this unawareness, because I've seen similar things before. Imagine this: Someone is planning on going to a costumed event -- a wedding, maybe -- but knows next-to-nothing about medieval/renaissance costume, and she can't sew at all. For help, she calls on a friend who does sew. The friend does mostly modern stuff; maybe she's done a little theater or opera costume -- 18th and 19th century. Hmm, this can't be hard, says the friend, and flips open a few of the books she has on hand, which have maybe three or four drawings of "generic medieval" or "generic Elizabethan" and a paragraph of description. She brings to the task her own incomplete knowledge of "historic costume" and the needs of people who wear costume for parties and/or performances: maybe you want to use hoops, maybe not, make the bodice reversible so you can change the look, etc. She makes the dress... ...and the client moves away before it's done, or changes her mind and doesn't pay, or the wedding is called off, or something. So she decides to sell it off on ebay. But how to write it up? She shows the costume to some friends who have done SCA and/or Faire. They are polite. One of them says, "Well, this part looks Elizabethan." Another one says, "They were wearing tie-on sleeves as early as the 1400s." Another says, "Be sure you cover the hair, no woman at this time would get caught dead with her hair showing." Comments like these, with no context or background, combine with the paragraph or two in her generic books to create a rather garbled image of what people in "that early time" wore. Once she sells this, she probably will never do another medieval/renaissance job again. (Or, worse, she'll decide that now that she's done one, she can go market her skills to all those people with ready money in the SCA...) In my experience, a lot of people graduate from school with a collapsed view of early modern history -- "medieval" and "Elizabethan" are not distinct terms, and it's all jumbled up with the feudal system and knights in shining armor and Shakespeare. Fantasy art and the generic Hollywood images that mix up hundreds of years' worth of styles feed that misunderstanding. My guess is that the people who are bidding on this clothing are also have that collapsed view, and they recognize that wench-dress image as generic medieval/renaissance. Lots of people have a use for this -- maybe they want to sell their pottery at Faires and need something to wear, or they want a fantasy costume for a con, or they do storytelling programs for children, or whatever. Unfortunately, historical knowledge (or historical costume knowledge) isn't as common among the public as it is on this list. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22827 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15029; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20121 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:31:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from websvr_cccs.pca.net ([207.136.43.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20100 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.238.216]) by websvr_cccs.pca.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:41:21 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BF16F7.DF7FEFA0@ELEMENTAL>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:27:25 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF16F7.DF7FEFA0@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: H-Costume: Ebay Sellers (longish) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:27:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra I have to admit that I am one of those less experienced costumers getting bummed out by the recent snarkfest, until (as usually happens) the discussion swung back to more gracious ground. I do want to hear what should be different about any given item (some of which we have heard already), but there is definately a qualitative difference between constructive criticism and snarking. I am, however, a slightly experienced ebay seller (not costumes, but handmade), buyer, general collector of sales trends & techniques. For Sarah -- I don't know how many times or when you attempted selling your garments on Ebay, but recently I've seen many *better* quality elizabethan & tudor garments sell in what I think is a reasonable price range. There is currently quite a range of quality/accuracy in costume and clothing being offered, and keywords are sometimes a little hard to sift through to find what a buyer is looking for. ('Renaissance' + 'costume'/'clothing'/'garb' will bring up everything from gunne sax & prom dresses to the high end 'will build for you' custom stuff) I would suggest using as many (applicable, of course) keywords in the first few sentences of your description) including Handmade, handsewn, clothing, costume, garb, historical, etc. Give garment measurments as well as approximate 'off-the-rack' size. Also, quality pictures are SO important, accurate color especially. showing details on a garment is even better! Describe the fabric. Some catagories have regular shoppers that reject anything posted with a reserve price -- costuming does not seem to suffer from this. So you can set your reserve reasonably, set your starting bid high enough to denote that you're selling handmade goods (if I saw off the first listing "Renaissance dress" with a bid or starting bid of $10, I would assume that it was off-the-rack goth garb and not even look) In general: If you can, post more items before the last round of your auctions expire. This allows people to check 'other auctions by seller' from the auction page, and they may see something that didn't come up in their search. Be willing to take lower amounts if you don't have a feedback rating yet, and be patient. Once the 'regulars' find you, they will check for auctions by your username. Your feedback rating is like gold -- treasure it and nurture it.. I will NOT buy from anyone with recent or abundant negative feedback. I *do* read what feedback has been left-- positive feedback that says "exactly as advertised" is lukewarm.. I am usually double critical of the descriptions of those sellers. I would love to see more quality historical items for sale -- I have limited time to sew, and less time to research at the moment. Still gotta wear something, though. BTW, has anyone considered leaving neutral feedback comments on the seller & item in question? something like " no clothing ensemble is accurate for all of a 500 year span. " then bidders are warned, if they bother to check feedback Carrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:31:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22848 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:31:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16805; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23066 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:41:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23058 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (1Cust28.tnt5.west-palm-beach.fl.da.uu.net [63.22.36.28]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27070 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003b01bf1724$5a4cb020$1a2a1a3f@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica D. Pence" To: References: <0.5fa7a417.253823f0@aol.com> <002b01bf1706$10f50940$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:43:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica D. Pence" I just wanted to point out that most of us showing objection to some rude or rash remarks made about an inaccurate garment and its mistaken description on Ebay, were not saying "do not criticize". I fully agree that all the inaccuracies should be pointed out so others may learn. My point was be constructive and polite. Once again, you are speaking to 350 people you do not know. Choose a more politically correct way of wording what bothers you about an inaccurate garment. Those that do not know better will be thankful to learn why the garment is wrong, but many will be offended when you attack the ill-informed dressmaker rather than the dress. Just a couple more of my cents. Erica D. Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Warning! This site is still under construction. Online store coming soon! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:32:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22852 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:32:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17227; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23666 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:44:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23649 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:44:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910151544.JAA23649@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 2761 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 15:44:10 -0000 Received: from i48-16-45.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO teleport.com?) (216.26.5.237) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 15:44:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:34:24 -0700 From: Stephen Fairman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts References: <0.5fa7a417.253823f0@aol.com> <002b01bf1706$10f50940$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> <017801bf170e$b173cac0$6c6b1f26@camelot> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Fairman "Diane M. Mathews" wrote: > -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" > > As a new arrival with the SCA and an ademate lurker, I want you to know that > I got the BEST laugh out of this one and the starting comments about the > garment. In fact, I did not get irritated until the members of the list > began slamming each other. Please---let's just laugh and have some fun with > it ! I happen to agree that someone who presents themself as an expert and > gives incorrect information has left themselves open for any insuing > comments and the information about how incorrect the dress was might have > saved a new SCA mamber from purchasing the gown and thinking it would be > appropriate for their time period. Back to lurking ! > > Gwinevere > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kyna Grannd > To: > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:09 AM > Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts > > > > > It just seems that if we cannot speak critically about "Historical > > Costume" > > > (and that's just what the seller was claiming to be selling) then we > > should > > > just up and disband now, folks. JMHO > > > > > > angela > > > > > > Very true Angela, and posts that do speak critically but constructfully > are > > not what I was referring to. Margo was the only one that jumped in as a > > defense sort of, but I wasn't singling her out, hers at least listed > > something she thought incorrect as did some others. Unfortunately I just > > cleaned out my email folders about two days ago and don't have any of the > > comments saved. If I remember correctly some were along the lines of "can > > you believe their selling this" and seeming to laugh. No constructive > > criticism in that. It was just a suggestion that rather than making a > > comment which could be construed as laughing at the person, or catty and > not > > giving a constructive reason why or suggestions as to what could have been > > done, the statement serves no purpose. ::shrugs:: If something is that bad > > in someone's eyes that it's below examination and constructive comment, > > perhaps it doesn't need comment at all. Because someone reading this list > > that doesn't know *why* folks are seeming to be I can't think of the right > > word, because cruel is too strong but I think you understand what I'm > > getting at. Comments like "Oh my gawd ::laughs::" might turn of a newer > > lurking member off, so that we never get to hear their questions and > > observations on *worthy* topics. I certainly wasn't suggesting that people > > not criticize....just that perhaps they should consider doing it in a > > constructive and helpful manner...for the sake of others on the list in > this > > case, who may have thought there was nothing wrong with the scope of dates > > 1200-1700 for that dress. > > > > Last on that subject from me :::chuckles:: *it's* not worthy of a huge > > debate and taking the lists time...I just wanted to clarify. > > > > ~Kyna > > Just my 2 cents worth: I appreciated the comments. As a renaissance clothing seller, I get upset at the people who are selling clothing without adequate documentation. If you go to the trouble to sell on ebay, you are attempting to be a professional. If so, you have to accurate. Too many people get misled and spend a great deal of time and money on making or buying something that is not accurate. Since the reserve on the auction has not been met yet, the seller is attempting to sell at a professional price and should be accurate as to the source and documentation. If not, she should be met with critical comment from those of us who take the time and effort to be accurate. Yours Esteban McLachan Shadow's Treasure Chest http://www.cyberis.net/~fairman1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:33:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22856 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:33:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17437; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23985 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:45:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23974 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:45:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA27126; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38074CA0.9ED0E415@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:47:44 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: new pattern? References: <38068D75.50507789@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > McCalls has a pattern that I have never seen before > > http://www.nampa.net/lucretia/9-10pattern9427.jpg Well I would make the underdress white, the overdresses colored. I would make the bodice tighter. I would make the sleeves of the overdress tighter and the sleeves of the underdress fuller and make sure to pull them out of the gaps in the over sleeves. I would never in a million zillion years use either headdress. It looks to me as though in the teeny picture at the botton of the blue chemise that the model is wearing a narrow padded headroll. This would be more appropriate than either of the other head dresses. Actually as someone else said, I wouldn't make this one but would turn around and go to the nearest Joann's and buy the Simplicity Italian. FWIW, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:50:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22882 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20027; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28486 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:02:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from shis345mlsrvrm.wustl.edu (cid.wustl.edu [128.252.134.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28480 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by cid.wustl.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <49RF55MV>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:07:42 -0500 Message-ID: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F44@cid.wustl.edu> From: Gina Torretta To: "'Historic Costuming'" Subject: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:07:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gina Torretta Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone their favorite "authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy award or nomination? I've been following the career of Gabriella Pescucci, Deborah Scott and Sandy Powell. -gina _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:55:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22916 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20761; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29923 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:08:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29909 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.416) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 15 Oct 99 11:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <040f01bf1725$85bc4440$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:54:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Ok, I have to correct all of you on a statement that most have been making from this person's e-bay clothing. Some of you have ranted about the twill fabric it was made from. Well, not that I would choose that type of fabric to make something but a twill weave goes farther back than the 1200-1700 the maker of the clothing stated it was from. The European decent mummies that were found in a Chinese desert had a fabric that was of a twill weave. The textile expert that was called in on this job likened to jeans.....saying that it was the same weave as our jeans today. Carol Ross and then I see something that >is described as a "denim material" going for those >kind of prices... it is frustrating! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:06:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22974 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:06:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22234; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02457 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:18:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02446 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22071 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:27:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08236 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:27:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:27:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands In-Reply-To: <000b01bf168f$87ff8eb0$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Cynthia Barnes wrote: > Robin, and any of the other ladies & gents on the Pourpoint thread, > There's an illumination on the inside front cover of "Parades et Parures", > (Boccacio, "De Cleres at Nobles Femmes", circa 1402, BNF Paris). Wish I > could find it online, but the BNF is not responding right now. Here's a > verbal description: ... Without a picture I couldn't begin to make a guess on the specifics. But a few stabs regarding your questions: > Is his pink & black garment truly a houppeland even in this different cut? > Is it a haincelin? What's a haincelin? :-) I don't remember hearing that term before. Seriously, terminology at the time wasn't standard, so anything we say today can only be arbitrary. I only worry about terms when I'm reading a source document and need to figure out what they're referring to, and that can vary by time and place and language/dialect. Today we have a few terms that most people will agree on, but even then there's a lot of variation. If you think it's a houppeland, I'm sure someone will agree with you, and someone else won't, and it doesn't really matter. In order to talk about something, we simply need to make a habit of establishing our definitions every time. > Are the sleeves still cut in the same "grandes assiette manner"? If so, how > does it turn into a bag? > Is his dagging applied as trim, set into a seam I cant see or artistic > license? No idea without seeing the picture, but I found that once I figured out how to make a certain form of open sleeve (the cut is not immediately apparent), then converting it into a bag required only one more seam. I've seen dagging running along the outer lower edge of a bag sleeve before; that's where the seam is, so I presume that sort of dagging is set into the seam. Sometimes you see hanging bells or fringe on that same line. I've also seen dagging or other decorations along the line of an armhole, so again I figure it's set into a seam. I would use the term "grande assiette" to refer to an armhole that's deeply cut into the body at the back in a large circular shape. Is that what you're seeing? I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use that armhole with a bag sleeve, though I'd have to see an example to get a sense of how it might be cut. If you do find this image online, or in another book, let me know. This is the kind of illustration you sometimes see in the Medieval Woman series, but it didn't come to hand in the few items I just flipped through. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:23:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23045 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:23:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25010; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06941 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:35:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06928 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.44.228] (helo=DESIGN) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11cAJn-0004QI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:35:00 -0600 From: "Design" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:30:42 -0600 Message-ID: <000401bf1733$016c29e0$e42c46a6@DESIGN.alinco> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F44@cid.wustl.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Design" Cyrano de Bergerac, the French version with Gerard Depardieu. Kevin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Gina Torretta > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:08 AM > To: 'Historic Costuming' > Subject: H-COST: movie "inspirations" > > > > -Poster: Gina Torretta > > Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone > their favorite > "authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy > award > or nomination? > I've been following the career of Gabriella Pescucci, Deborah Scott > and > Sandy Powell. > > -gina > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:32:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23083 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26243; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09269 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:44:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09222 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA29635; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38075A63.488AFBCA@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:46:28 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" References: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F44@cid.wustl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone > their favorite > "authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy > award or nomination? First I'll state that I don't believe it would be possible for a costumer to make entirely period and authentic costumes for any movie, mainly due to time and money constraints, but I think some try harder than others. My personal favorite costume designer for period films is Sandy Powell. I think I like her best because she obviously has a background in historical costuming and she uses it. I love that she lavishly embroiders many of the costumes. And the actors always look good in what she does. Her choice of fabrics is exquisite and I think she has great taste and style. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23146 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28344; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:58:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12845 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:58:14 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RVYa12220 (4572) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.1a56c44d.2538b6ff@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:57:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 9:47:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << First I'll state that I don't believe it would be possible for a costumer to make entirely period and authentic costumes for any movie, mainly due to time and money constraints, but I think some try harder than others. >> Cynthia, I find your statement intriguing. I believe I disagree, but am unclear as to what you mean by "entirely period"... if you mean down to underwear and fastenings that might never be seen, then certainly it is rare, but *never* ?? Just curious as to what your meaning was. I would point you to "Angels & Insects" which I believe has some of the best period clothing I've ever seen, as well as a magnificent sense of design & use of color for cinema. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:49:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23150 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:49:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28771; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13665 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:00:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13651 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:00:54 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VHTa15805 (4463) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.42096a2d.2538b7a2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:00:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA13656 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Cyrano de Bergerac.....costumes by Franca Squarciapino Perfection! Also, let's not forget Jenny Beavan & John Bright of Merchant/ Ivory fame! Also capable of perfection is Piero Tosi but the only films of his I know are La Traviata & Death in Venice. Then there's Danilo Donati, who does the Zeffirelli Shakespeare films & Fellini's Satyracon, which may be the most convincing Ancient Rome I've seen....though I know it's not actually accurate. Barry Lyndon is perfection too....that's Milena Cananero [with Ulla-Britt Søderlund] . I worked with an assistant of hers, on a TV miniseries. Milena kept calling the shop to try to get him to do a show with her. He would roll his eyes and exclaim: "She's a nut! I won't do it!" Well...the results of her nuttiness are magnificent! [She also did Chariots of Fire] ....to mention a few of my faves! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:52:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23162 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:52:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29455; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14628 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:04:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14618 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem126.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.126] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11cAmV-0006kU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:04:41 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01bf172f$696e20b0$7e065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <006e01bf171a$d93b6480$80f4fea9@ouppc> Subject: Re: H-COST: Breast Cancer Fundraiser (OT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:04:04 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF1737.AAF3FCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF1737.AAF3FCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MabelI just had to delurk to correct an false impression that you may = have inadvertently strengthened. Breast cancer is not confined to the female of the species, usually yes = but not solely. LDM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Vince Lyons=20 Hello dear list, I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, especially those of = you who receive the cross-postings! This message arrived from another = of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to you all here, since = these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen have mothers, = and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as well. =3D) ) Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful weekend! Kerrie =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF1737.AAF3FCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel
I just had to delurk to correct an = false impression=20 that you may have inadvertently strengthened.
Breast cancer is not confined to the = female of the=20 species, usually yes but not solely.
LDM
 ----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Vince = Lyons=20
 Hello dear = list,
I hope you'll forgive me for filling your mailbox, = especially=20 those of you who receive the cross-postings!  This = message arrived=20 from another of my lists, and I hope it might be of interest to = you all=20 here, since these groups are mostly women (And of course our gentlemen = have=20 mothers, and perhaps sisters, wives, friends and girlfriends as = well. =3D)=20 )
 
Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful = weekend!
Kerrie

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF1737.AAF3FCA0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:52:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23166 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:52:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29283; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14476 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:04:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14463 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:04:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ZACa22486 (4463) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.17fddeae.2538b862@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:03:30 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 12:49:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << First I'll state that I don't believe it would be possible for a costumer to make entirely period and authentic costumes for any movie, mainly due to time and money constraints, but I think some try harder than others. >> Check out the 2 part Little Doritt....with Derek Jacobe & Alec Guiness. All the clothes were actually made by hand. It took 2 years. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:56:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23176 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00255; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15658 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:08:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15644 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:08:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QRSa26614 (4463) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.166ceb2f.2538b97d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 12:49:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << My personal favorite costume designer for period films is Sandy Powell. >> As you all know I love to remind everyone....I worked with her on Interview with the Vampire. She is lovely & charming and part of her success is she loves input from her assistants and cutters. She likes an accurate cut but will be liberal with fabric choices. She also loves dangerous color schemes. ...which she works to perfection. I'm so glad she won an Oscar....'bout time! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:06:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23195 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01887; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18266 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:19:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18259 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Fri Oct 15 10:18:21 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:18:21 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.138 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" I'm partial to the costumes in Resurection I think it's called, it's been so long since I've seen it. It had meg ryan and robert downey Jr. in it. I think it won a costuming award but I"m not sure. --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure ask of everyone >their favorite >"authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy >award >or nomination? Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23199 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01879; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18194 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:18:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18176 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA01045; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38076278.77C88EE1@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:20:56 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" References: <0.1a56c44d.2538b6ff@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Cynthia, I find your statement intriguing. I believe I disagree, but am > unclear as to what you mean by "entirely period"... if you mean down to > underwear and fastenings that might never be seen, then certainly it is rare, > but *never* ?? Just curious as to what your meaning was. I mean every single detail. Head to toe. Websters: "Entire, Having no part left out, being without limitation or reservation, complete, intact". And I do mean accurate. Given time and money, they could probably do it. Would they? I doubt it. Should they? Personal opinion. Truly it would then depend on the era wouldn't it? Pre-1550 it would be close to impossible for anyone, for any reason, to create a fully accurate ensemble since we don't know everything about every item of clothing earlier than that. Right? I realize that the one thing I left out was the title of my favorite period costume movie. Hmmmm. That's a really really tough question. I *love* _Interview with a Vampire_ for the men's clothing, accurate or not. For women's clothing, I liked _Robin Hood_, the one with Patrick Bergen and Uma Thurman, accurate or not. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:16:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23209 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03320; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20692 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:29:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20676 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FJN00E01N74RK@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:28:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:28:16 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands In-reply-to: <199910151702.LAA14133@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FJN00E03N74RK@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.69 References: <199910151702.LAA14133@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu > > What's a haincelin? :-) I don't remember hearing that >term before. Personally, I don't have a clue. > Seriously, terminology at the time wasn't standard, so >anything we say today can only be arbitrary... Unfortunately, while this is true enough, I'm not certain that it isn't overstating the issue far enough that it makes it somewhat pointless to try and even asume we know what we are talking about. I agree though that we do need to be careful to define what we are talking about. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:22:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23215 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04683; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22296 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:36:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22283 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23771 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:45:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08776 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:46:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:46:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" In-Reply-To: <38076278.77C88EE1@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton Maybe not perfect, but I recall that the clothing in Robin & Marian had the right "hang" to it, and nice little details that many costumers miss. I haven't seen the movie since the early 1980s, though, so maybe my standards would be higher now. The designer for that -- Yvonne or Yvette something? I forget -- also did Nicholas & Alexandra, which had a sumptuous look. That period is out of my specialty area, so I have no idea if it was accurate at all. I'm also remembering the clothing in Dragonslayer, a middlin'-quality fantasy movie that actually had some good early-medieval costumes, with things like hand-stitching on collars that you could see in closeups. Again, my judgment might be different if I saw it today -- it's been maybe 20 years. With fantasy, I suppose designers have a lot of leeway, but it's nice to see them do something that has some grounding in reality. I've noticed that the leading lady or the ingenue often is not dressed as authentically as the other characters. The usual reason cited is that the leading lady can insist on clothes that are sexy/attractive by modern standards, which usually means a different silhouette, colors, fabrics, cleavage, hairdo, etc. Or maybe it's the director that does the insisting. Or maybe the costume designer has more control over the lesser actors... In The Lion In Winter, I always much preferred Eleanor, properly wimpled, to the sexy young Alys, whose dress would have been completely beyond the pale of respectable to medieval eyes. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:27:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23250 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:27:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05518; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23417 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-10.s10.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.10]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA25155 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016e01bf1734$dc1ba240$0a3eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F44@cid.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:43:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Restoration! From the moment I saw the film, I thought there goes the Costuming Oscar! And it won. Later... Penny > Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone > their favorite > "authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy > award > or nomination? > I've been following the career of Gabriella Pescucci, Deborah Scott > and > Sandy Powell. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:28:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23254 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05594; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23521 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23513 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.8] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11cBMU-00058P-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:41:51 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012121923.00c2b710@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:24:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: wench, was Front lacing bodices In-Reply-To: <3806616D.8788791@serv.net> References: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> <3806267B.F67E240C@serv.net> <009601bf1696$808ea240$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Speaking as someone who works at a Ren. Faire where some people call themselves by the name of wench, and having seen some pretty 'revealing' examples of bodices on said wenches, I feel the need to reply. What are commonly thought of as 'wench bodices', by our customers, are usually without sleeves or sleeve attachments, are front-lacing, and are sometimes cut below the breasts (leaving the poor overworked chemise to try to do the job usually done by a bra). My guess is that this bodice originally derived from the Bermondsly (sp?) Wedding picture, by way of several costume directors, many different bodice manufacturers, and decades of usage. The 'wench' bodices in the B.W. picture are respectably high-cut, and front closing. At Faire, ours are anywhere from pretty correct to pure fantasy. My understanding of the word wench is that originally it meant lower class young woman and only later came to mean 'available' lower class young woman. So many of our young female participants call themselves wench without meaning anything their mothers wouldn't approve of. Wench a word our customers know, so they delight in calling all our female ale stand servers by that name. I even get called wench, at age 50, when they aren't calling me milady, the only other word they know for woman. >> Granted the "wench" bodices aren't >> accurate but many of the bodices in these paintings do lace in the front. >> http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm >> >> I think I am confused. Aren't these "wench" bodices? How does a "wench" >> bodice differ from the ones shown in the paintings? > >Wandering off into opinion territory here. This is my opinion. The ladies in >these pictures are ladies with respectable jobs. They are not wenches. These >are not wench bodices. > >The wench bodices I am familiar with here in my neck of the woods (An >Tir/Seattle WA) lace tightly so that the edges of the fabric meet. The front >edges of the fabric doesn't meet in those pictues. And the in the More Family >portrait those front edges don't touch either. There is a good 5-6 inches of >stomacher showing under the laces. Wench bodices don't do this. Many, many >wench bodices here don't even cover the breasts but leave them hanging above or >outside of the bodice front, only the chemise (underwear) covering them for >modesty. Not very modest. Not what a respectable medieval woman would have >worn. Not in my opinion. Ergo, wench. > >Cynthia >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Beaumaris >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:45:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23271 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08334; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27751 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27732 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.8] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11cBd9-0007DH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:59:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012133447.00c1ade0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:35:33 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Stubbes on Jerkins In-Reply-To: <199910151407.IAA29523@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows What country was he talking about - Germany? >And just to throw another fish into the pot, here's a quote from >Phillip Stubbes (Elizabethan commentator extroardinaire) on the >subject (written in 1583:) > >"Their coates and Jerkins, as they be diverse in colors, so be they >diverse in fashions; for some be made with colors, some without, some >close to the bodie, some loose, covering the whole body downe to the >theighe, like baggs or sacks that weare > >drawen over them, hidinge the dimensions and proportions of the body: >some are buttened down the brest, some under the arm, and some downe >the back; some with flappes over the brest, some without, some with >great sleeves, some with small, and some with non at all; some pleated >and crested behind, and curiously gathered; some not so; & how many >days so many sortes of apparell some one man will have, and thinketh >it good provision in faire weather to lay up against a storme! " Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23275 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:45:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08331; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27747 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27725 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.8] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11cBd7-0007DH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:59:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012132741.00bdc600@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:28:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Check this out! In-Reply-To: References: <000101bf166c$1a8b5080$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows What's all the fuss? It's someone's old Ren. Faire outfit. I've seen MUCH worse. KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu writes, in a message sent 10:56 A 10/14/99 -0700: > >-Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180321545 > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23283 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:46:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08696; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28138 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:00:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28126 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.82.30] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAA037020090; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:55:44 -0400 Message-ID: <005a01bf1737$4b464600$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <006e01bf171a$d93b6480$80f4fea9@ouppc> <001d01bf172f$696e20b0$7e065cc3@herimats> Subject: Re: H-COST: Breast Cancer Fundraiser (OT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:01:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF1715.C3746340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF1715.C3746340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LDMundy=20 Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Breast Cancer Fundraiser (OT) >I just had to delurk to correct an false impression that you may have = >inadvertently strengthened. >Breast cancer is not confined to the female of the species, usually = yes but not >solely. >LDM Yes, you're right of course. This year the American Cancer Society = estimates that there will be about 175,000 new cases of invasive breast = cancer this year among women in the United States and about 43,300 = deaths from the disease, statistics for men are 1,300 diagnosed with = approximately 400 deaths. The death rate for men would likely be much lower if they were more = aware of the disease and obtained aggressive treatment earlier. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF1715.C3746340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 LDMundy
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 = 1:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: H-COST: Breast = Cancer=20 Fundraiser (OT)

>I just had to delurk to correct = an false=20 impression that you may have >inadvertently = strengthened.
>Breast cancer is not confined to = the female=20 of the species, usually yes but not >solely.
>LDM
 
Yes, you're right of course.  = This year the=20 American Cancer Society estimates that there will be about 175,000 new = cases=20 of invasive breast cancer this year among women in the United States = and about=20 43,300 deaths from the disease,  statistics for men are 1,300 = diagnosed=20 with approximately 400 deaths.
 
The death rate for men would likely = be much lower=20 if they were more aware of the disease and obtained aggressive = treatment=20 earlier.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF1715.C3746340-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23293 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:50:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09632; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29173 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:04:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29156 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goochy.excite.com ([199.172.152.233]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991015173946.NHLI20311.ewey.excite.com@goochy.excite.com> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:39:46 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Message-Id: <940009185.16407.133@excite.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:39:45 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone > their favorite > "authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy > award > or nomination? > I've been following the career of Gabriella Pescucci, Deborah Scott > and > Sandy Powell. > > -gina I don't know about the level of accuracy for this one, but it rates pretty high on the inspiration side: Coppola's(sp?) Dracula. I loved nearly every one of the costumes, even the odd ones worn by Lucy. (Though I'm not sure I'd go for the lace thing around my neck that she was buried in. Is that remotely period for anywhen?) I also very much liked the costumes in Age of Innocence. The gown of pale satin with the purple embroidery is a great favorite. Actually, it just occured to me that the woman wearing the costumes I liked best in both these films is Winona Ryder. From what I've read, she has a small enough figure to fit into corsetted style garments, without a whole lot of corsetting. Which means that if I ever get around to recreating any of these dresses, I'm not going to get *quite* the same look! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23316 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:05:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11930; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02556 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:19:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02542 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.185.108] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11cBwt-0006pM-00; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:19:28 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991015181601.0075bd80@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:16:01 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 12:57 PM 10/15/99 EDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/15/1999 9:47:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >keltia@serv.net writes: > ><< First I'll state that I don't believe it would be possible for a costumer >to > make entirely period and authentic costumes for any movie, mainly due to time > and money constraints, but I think some try harder than others. >> > >Cynthia, I find your statement intriguing. I believe I disagree, but am >unclear as to what you mean by "entirely period"... if you mean down to >underwear and fastenings that might never be seen, then certainly it is rare, >but *never* ?? Just curious as to what your meaning was. > I can not speak for Cynthia, but for most of human history clothing has been hand sewn from hand woven fabric, perhaps that is what she means. Of course the ability to make an "entirely period" production depends greatlt on the period. Recently I watched "The Great Lebowski". As a movie made in the late nineties that is about the early nineties it is a period film, with very accurate costuming. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:08:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23320 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12344; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03087 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03080 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21507 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00512 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:22:17 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Stubbes on Jerkins In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991012133447.00c1ade0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed He was an Englishman, commenting on English fashion. I have his collected opinions on Ruffs, women's hair, shoes, clothing, etc. online at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/stubbes.html Drea On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > What country was he talking about - Germany? > > >And just to throw another fish into the pot, here's a quote from > >Phillip Stubbes (Elizabethan commentator extroardinaire) on the > >subject (written in 1583:) > > > >"Their coates and Jerkins, as they be diverse in colors, so be they > >diverse in fashions; for some be made with colors, some without, some > >close to the bodie, some loose, covering the whole body downe to the > >theighe, like baggs or sacks that weare > > > >drawen over them, hidinge the dimensions and proportions of the body: > >some are buttened down the brest, some under the arm, and some downe > >the back; some with flappes over the brest, some without, some with > >great sleeves, some with small, and some with non at all; some pleated > >and crested behind, and curiously gathered; some not so; & how many > >days so many sortes of apparell some one man will have, and thinketh > >it good provision in faire weather to lay up against a storme! " > > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23354 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:15:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13466; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04969 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:29:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04945 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:29:43 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RPMa09316 (4445) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3a9097c7.2538cc72@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:29:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie accuracy/ was "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 10:22:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << I mean every single detail. Head to toe. Websters: "Entire, Having no part left out, being without limitation or reservation, complete, intact". And I do mean accurate. Given time and money, they could probably do it. Would they? I doubt it. Should they? Personal opinion. Truly it would then depend on the era wouldn't it? Pre-1550 it would be close to impossible for anyone, for any reason, to create a fully accurate ensemble since we don't know everything about every item of clothing earlier than that. Right? >> I see little benefit in that kind of extreme replication of historical detail in film, unless it is a documentary of the construction of the clothing. While it is important to note that visible details should be very carefully tended to, in order that they appear accurate to their time period, and that historical details should be incorporated into the film whenever the plot or story merits, I take issue (yes, personal choice here) with the suggested position that there is some particular merit that say: garments in a film about Ancient Egypt should be hand-woven out of Papyrus reeds, or whatever method was used in the past, rather than say, manufactured in a modern way which would appear just as accurate (I feel it necessary to reiterate that this only works if there is no visual difference in the resultant end-product). It just seems like overkill to me. While I "get" why costumers sometimes sew items by hand, or use other historically appropriate methods of building costumes for film, and sometimes it can and does lend itself to the feel of a story, because it helps the actors really feel transported, I think it's generally a bit much, and couldn't myself conceive of a convincing argument for why it would be worth all the money and time it would entail. To say one had done it perhaps? Maybe-- but I just don't see film as necessarily the venue for that kind of instructive detail, particularly when it appears you're discussing the lack of "details in the invisible" so to speak. Unless a closeup of a particular item of clothing, displaying the "period accurate" construction, lent itself to the story, I don't see it's value to the film. To the costumer, perhaps, as there is always a sense of creative delight in doing things in a well thought out and detailed manner. So my response to the "should they" would be no, of course not (with the foregoing provisos). But, you're right, it's just a matter of opinion at that point. Interesting question though. angela+++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "As in a theater, the eyes of men, after a well-graced actor leaves the stage, are idly bent on him that enters next, thinking his prattle to be tedious." Richard II; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23362 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14066; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05930 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:34:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05904 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:34:08 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6YYNFFXLx_ (4445) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c106dc3a.2538cd79@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:33:29 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 11:20:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rcarnegie@widomaker.com writes: << I can not speak for Cynthia, but for most of human history clothing has been hand sewn from hand woven fabric, perhaps that is what she means. >> Without reiterating it here, she did mean exactly that apparently. I responded at length, as the question intrigued me. I think that I will always value "inspiration over accuracy" (to quote a fellow lister) in film or stage, the latter being my venue of choice. I understand many find accuracy rewarding, and do not begrudge them their own passions, I simply believe that what we see should move our souls first, teach us history, a distant second. angela+++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:24:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23371 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14636; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06853 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06848 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA04404; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38077512.BA7075DF@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:40:18 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie accuracy/ was "inspirations" References: <0.3a9097c7.2538cc72@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > << I mean every single detail. Head to toe. Websters: "Entire, Having no > part left > out, being without limitation or reservation, complete, intact". And I do > mean accurate > > I see little benefit in that kind of extreme replication of historical detail > in film, unless it is a documentary of the construction of the clothing. [major snip] Please don't assume that my comments mean I think this should be so. I don't. The question pertained to accuracy of costuming in movies and I said it wasn't done. I never said it should be done, just said I didn't think it would be done. You're reading *WAY* to much into my comments. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23386 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:37:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16536; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09658 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:50:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09647 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:50:43 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6KUa019964 (4445) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bb132c42.2538d15b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:50:03 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie accuracy/ was "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 11:40:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << Please don't assume that my comments mean I think this should be so. I don't. The question pertained to accuracy of costuming in movies and I said it wasn't done. I never said it should be done, just said I didn't think it would be done. You're reading *WAY* to much into my comments >> Cynthia Didn't mean to sound as though you were the only one who might take the position, but since you brought it up, I was moved to respond with my opinion. I honestly think it's a very valid point of discussion. Which is more important, art or accuracy? When do they coincide? At what point is one more valuable than the other? It comes up a lot here on the list, and we're certainly divided on the issue. I did get the feeling that you believed accuracy to have a certain amount of importance and that it's absence in film was something you felt needed correcting, but it's a valid point. It's something I feel rather passionate about (could you tell?), but sometimes it's hard not to sound "harsh" in an e-mail. Didn't mean to be abrasive. Perhaps I was a bit dazed from the bump on my head left by the Webster's Dictionary (::rubs head grinning::) angela+++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:38:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23393 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16653; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09815 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:51:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09796 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:51:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.185.108] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11cCRr-0000Ma-00; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:51:28 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991015184755.00757b78@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:47:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:33 PM 10/15/99 EDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/15/1999 11:20:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >rcarnegie@widomaker.com writes: > ><< I can not speak for Cynthia, but for most of human history clothing > has been hand sewn from hand woven fabric, perhaps that is what she means. >> > >Without reiterating it here, she did mean exactly that apparently. I >responded at length, as the question intrigued me. I think that I will >always value "inspiration over accuracy" (to quote a fellow lister) in film >or stage, the latter being my venue of choice. I understand many find >accuracy rewarding, and do not begrudge them their own passions, I simply >believe that what we see should move our souls first, teach us history, a >distant second. > True, but you are creating an argument were none was suggested. Cynthia stated that costuming could not practicaly be truly authentic, and then asked her question (that being what films are considered to have an authentic feel to the costuming by the list members). Later, some one asked why she did not think a film could be trully authentic, and so I answered the question. Cynthia's comment is true, and you agree that it is not difficulty. No one I have read on this thread so far (including myself) have stated anything different. My soul has never been moved by a movie, but it has been by history. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23403 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:41:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16897; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10166 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10155 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23029 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02781 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:53:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:53:43 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I like Sandy Powell (Shakespeare in Love, Interview with the Vampire, Orlando, Rob Roy, Wings of the Dove, and several other dazzling productions) James Acheson (Restoration, the Sheltering Sky, Dangerous Liaisons), Gabrielle Pescucci (Dangerous Beauty, A Midsummer Night's Dream,Indochine, Age of Innocence, The Scarlet Letter) Jenny Beavan & John Bright (Room with a View, Howard's End, Sense and Sensibility). Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:55:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23426 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19028; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13560 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13539 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id MAA05751; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38077C31.5F67E87E@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:10:41 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie accuracy/ was "inspirations" References: <0.bb132c42.2538d15b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I honestly think it's a very valid point of discussion. Which is > more important, art or accuracy? When do they coincide? At what point is one > more valuable than the other? It comes up a lot here on the list, and we're > certainly divided on the issue. It is a good question. It just wasn't asked. But since you have now, I would say that for me I like to see both. > I did get the feeling that you believed accuracy to have a certain amount of > importance and that it's absence in film was something you felt needed > correcting, but it's a valid point. I certianly never meant to give that feeling. :) I felt that it's absence needed *explaining*. Not correcting. I know that some folks on this list *DO* feel that way, at least to a certain point, judging from the irate comments that appear on the list after an historical costuming flick has hit the screens. I am not one of them. I do appreciate an attempt on the designer to get the feel and the silhouette right so that it doesn't jar the psyche but I also appreciate human creativity. Personally, while I am a serious researcher and recreator to the best of my abilities in the SCA, I also believe that the C (Creative) is desirable. > It's something I feel rather passionate > about (could you tell?), but sometimes it's hard not to sound "harsh" in an > e-mail. Didn't mean to be abrasive. Nope, couldn't tell at all. *G* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23432 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:59:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19675; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14336 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14329 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.158]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:05:37 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:08:17 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <38087aa5.213854054@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <040f01bf1725$85bc4440$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> In-Reply-To: <040f01bf1725$85bc4440$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA14331 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:54:10 -0500, the following was written in this electric book by "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" : > > >Ok, I have to correct all of you on a statement that most have been making >from this person's e-bay clothing. Some of you have ranted about the twill >fabric it was made from. If you are referring to me, I was merely attempting to surmise what was meant byt the persom auctioning the dress when she stated 'denim-like', in response to someone who could not figure out what this person meant. No more. I cannot figure out how you read that into my posting. All I objected to was her use of a white lacing that looked pretty unattractive (rather like inexpensive white shoelaces) in the context of such a fantasy outfit. Hopefully the new owner will make a change there. I did like the hat. It's pretty, even if it looks like it was borrowed form someone else's costume :) Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:59:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23436 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:59:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19678; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14451 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14443; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910151912.NAA14443@net.indra.com> From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: re: Pourpoints & Houppelands (grande assiettes) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Robin asked: >I would use the term "grande assiette" to refer to an armhole that's >deeply cut into the body at the back in a large circular shape. Is that >what you're seeing? yes, exactly. By the way, I asked you & the list whether the term "grandes assiettes" was modern or something mentioned by 15th contemporaries. I've answered by own question. It is a 15th c term as you can see from these quotations; your nomenclature is well justified for pourpoints. 1432 “To Perrin Bossout, valet and tailor, … for assembly of 2 pourpoints made for MdS in his city of Brouxelles (Brussels), the one of black damasked cloth in 4 quarters, and the other “a grands assiettes” in VI layers of fabric & 1 leather” For fabric and fashioning of 2 pourpoints [for] MdS in his city of Bruges in order to go to Holland to be done(derrain?) in black fustian, the one in 4 quarters and of 5 fabric layers, the other “a grandes assiettes” in 3 layers; for each one XLs” And for assembly of 2 pourpoints in black fustian that these would be made in the city of Dijon to put on & wear at Avalon, the one in in 4 quarters and of 5 fabric layers, the other “a grandes assiettes” in 3 layers; for each one XLs” from accounts published in “Les Ducques de Burgoygne" as cited in "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son armeur" by A. Harmand and translated by moi. And also: * Red “assiettes”, white passé-poils … assiettes deep green, red passé-poils * A very rich “assiette” of sleeves (menches?) which will be made in one color (collier?) * Pourpoint white, assiettes deep green … Pourpoint blue, assiettes light grey also cited in "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son armeur" by A. Harmand and translated by moi. You'll also see here the problem word "passé-poils" that I asked about earlier this week. Parenthetical words are transcribed from the original text. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:20:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23497 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:20:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22893; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19508 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:32:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19501 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJN00H5OSVWEG@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:31:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:41:27 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands In-reply-to: <199910151800.MAA28158@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991015144127.007a5100@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >> Seriously, terminology at the time wasn't standard, so >>anything we say today can only be arbitrary... > >Unfortunately, while this is true enough, I'm not >certain that it isn't overstating the issue far enough >that it makes it somewhat pointless to try and even >asume we know what we are talking about. > >I agree though that we do need to be careful to define >what we are talking about. Ok, let's try this again - actually having a point this time... :) Let's look at the term "Doublet", just as an example. It's a term that appears frequently in the costuming literature. General meaning is a shortish man's garment, fastens up the front, may or may not have sleeves, ancestor to modern garments like jackets a vests. Very popular in the 16th century. Does anyone have any problem with that? I have heard some people in modern context differentiate between doublets and jerkins, suggesting that the jerkin is the sleeveless garment. But if we are talking about clothing before 1500 or thereabouts there is a problem with this (since that's when the earliest appearance of the term "jerkin" is in English (OED2)). "Doublet" appears well before that. In fact, the earliest noted appearence of "doublet" is in the Wardrobe accounts of Edward II (1326). That would seem strange to me, and wonder what they were referring to, except that I know that under Edward II men's clothes in England (and perhaps elsewhere) went through a period of getting very short before getting longer again. The term doesn't seem to appear again in English until the 1400s (OED2 and MED). So I think it's not unreasonable to assume that it meant more or less what we've defined it to mean. So, if we turn to the "Charles of Blois" outfit, is that a doublet? By the definition above, sure it is. But we think of it as a "pourpoint". So what is a pourpoint? I was originally taught that it was an undergarment, the sole purpose of which is to attach one's hose to. Ok, so, Wilcox (1969) defines Pourpoint as "See gambeson, jerkin, action [sic]." She defines Acton as "See gambeson, pourpoint, doublet" (although she shows a sketch of a padded sleeveless hip-length garment). Doublet is defined as "See gambeson, jerkin". "Gambeson or Pourpoint, a doublet, often sleeveless, of leather or cloth, stuffed and quilted. It was worn as a pad under armor in the Middle Ages and in civil dress by men, women, and children." "Jerkin, In the fourteenth century, the man's cote-hardie developed into a garment known as a doublet or pourpoint, both words meaning a wadded jerkin, jaque, jacket, or gambeson. A similar garment for women was known as a jerkinet. The jerkin became a sort of waistcoat in the north of England, worn up to the early twentieth century." Davies (1994) refers to Pourpoint as "Masc. Close-fitting jerkin, padded. 14th cent. Predecessor of doublet (see GIPON)." "Gipon Masc. Padded bodice of 14th century. Forerunner of doublet (see (GYPON)." "Gypon Masc. Well tailored, fitting garment worn over shirt, later called DOUBLET. 14th-17th Cent. (also GIPON)." However, "Doublet Masc. Padded, closefitting body garment, with or without sleeves, worn originally under a breastplate. Later worn over the shirt, 14th-16th Cent. Sometimes slashed. Became shorter after 17th Cent., evolving into the waistcoat (See GAMBESON)." "Gambeson Masc. Padded bodice of leather or cloth, worn under armour of Middle Ages. Later in the 16th cent., worn by civil. population." "Jerkin Masc. Tight-fitting jacket which replaced the cotehardie in the late 15th Cent. Sometimes made of leather...." Boucher (1966) defines Pourpoint as "See Doublet". "Doublet/Pourpoint Originally a quilted garment, i.e. padded with cotton or waste, held in place by stitching; worn under the hauberk. It was a variety of gippon or gambeson in in rich cloth, which passed from military to civil costume and became an outer garment from the early 14th century. In the 16th century and up to the 17th century it was a garment worn by all men; the shape and trimmings changed, but its basic character remained unchanged." "Gambeson Quilted padded garment worn under armour; it passed into civilian costume in the 14th century under the name of juppe, gippon, pourpoint or doublet". "Gipon/Gippon Also called jupe, jupel, jupon, in the Middle Ages. A sort of doublet made of padded, quilted material. It was an undergarment and the breeches were attached to it; in the mid 14th century it became indistinquishable from the doublet and the jacket made in rich materials which replaced it." "Jupe From the Arabic djuba, jacket. In the Middle Ages it was confused with GIPPON but also meant women's jacket..." The OED defines Pourpoint as 1. Something quilted, such as a Gambais purpoint, or a Cuilt purpoint and 2. A doublet, stuffed and quilted, worn by men in the 14th and 15th centuries. The additional text implies that this is a modern usage. Obviously, there is a problem here (I selected these three of these glossaries because they are commonly used today by costumers). There's no surprise that people are being confused by the topics since the sources really don't agree with each other, and appear to be contradicting themselves. This isn't helped by the fact that the definitions change over time (although that was one of the reasons I picked this example -- details change, but overall it seems to be the same garment). Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23502 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24132; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:42:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from shis345mlsrvrm.wustl.edu (cid.wustl.edu [128.252.134.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21861 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by cid.wustl.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <49RF55PT>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:47:25 -0500 Message-ID: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F47@cid.wustl.edu> From: Gina Torretta To: "'Historic Costuming'" Subject: H-COST: art vs. accuracy Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:47:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gina Torretta following the transformed thread (and I appreciate all the input on "movie inspirations") - I was recently intrigued by a comment from a relative who is only marginally aware of the historical validity of clothing. He had seen the movie Dangerous Beauty and was asking me why the courtesan's dresses exposed the legs in a majority of the scenes. Was this a possible fashion of 16thc Venice? Or just artistic license of Pescucci? I've spent a month or less perusing my limited art books to discover that I have *no* art of actual courtesan's couture (in fact I have no idea if a Toulouse Lautrec could have existed at this time period eaking out a living doing the portraits of the medieval call girl) any takers? -gina _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:32:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23516 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24878; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22914 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:46:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22898 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.185.108] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11cDJK-0002vP-00; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:46:43 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991015194301.00a3f564@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:43:01 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: movie accuracy/ was "inspirations" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 12:10 PM 10/15/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> I honestly think it's a very valid point of discussion. Which is >> more important, art or accuracy? When do they coincide? At what point is one >> more valuable than the other? It comes up a lot here on the list, and we're >> certainly divided on the issue. > Art and accuracy are NOT mutually exclusive terms. A very high level of artistic ability is necessary for quite a few historical periods. I for one am far more impressed with the artistic ability to recreate accurate clothing than with a costume designers ideas of what SHOULD have been period. Now I am a first person interpreter in a living history mueseum. Where I work I would prefer a very high level of accuracy (higher than we have), but many of the same requirements I would expect at work, I would NOT expect for a movie or theatrical program. Much of it is unneccesary in that venue. It is far more imortant in my mind, that movie costumes appear historical than that they be truly authentic. As example, movies SHOULD use proper underclothes in most occasions, as they often affect sillouhette, but handsewn, hand woven, even natural fabric is not so needed. It is true that all of these things can affect the visual appearance of the clothing, but how much of that carries over to the film? As long as it appears historically authentic that is fine. The historical accuracy of a period film does affect my enjoyment of the film, and can lead to my decision even to see the film. One of my favourite films is Rob Roy, but many of its costumes are rather inaccurate, so it does not always stop me from enjoying a film. Persuasion, the clothes are my favourite part of that film. (Innacurate costumes alone are not enough to stop me from seeing a film, it takes that and a similiar lack of concern to the other historic concerns like Braveheart). Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23520 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24968; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23044 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:47:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23029 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991015195929.11304.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:59:29 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:59:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney >Dangerous Liaisons I must say, I think this is my favorite... the costuming is great (and I find it inspirational) and the movie was better! ;-) An amusing side note: While I will neither confirm nor deny that I hated "Cruel Intentions", I found it amusing that the local college paper hailed it as the "wonderful and completely original new work"... Original, huh? I didn't realise that Dangerous Liaisons was such an obscure movie that someone on the newspaper staff would not have heard of it and know that CI was a remake... ;-) Anyway, amusing... Now back to the regularly scheduled topic ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 15:42:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23577 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:42:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04754; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09152 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:55:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09133 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11cENo-0007wq-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:55:24 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:54:03 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns overseas In-Reply-To: <3804F186.1ABB1DE@ndh.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <3804F186.1ABB1DE@ndh.net>, Andrea Clef writes >Unfortunately we don`t even get the Simplicity costume patterns in our >stores although the regular Simplicity patterns are available over here. > >But I`m very lucky to have nice people in the States getting them for me >(thanks a lot, >Kate !). > >Many greetings, >Diana I went last week to get a mundane pattern, and the latest Simplicity book has a _huge_ costume section - I reckon it's all the ones our friends in the US talk about - the various Italian ren(ish), cotehardies and sideless surcotes, the Shakespeare in Love one (which is gorgeous) and the Scottish Lassies, amongst others. The lady in the shop said that you can't necessarily actually get the patterns in the UK, or some have to be specially ordered, but it's much more than they used to even show us. Jean > -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:58:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23662 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14660; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26265 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:12:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26235 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:12:15 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TYPa09341 (4159) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.afacbe73.253900b8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:12:08 EDT Subject: H-COST: Needlework resources To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com I promised a friend that I'd remember to post and ask for the addresses of any needlework lists, or urls to any good needlework sites for her. I forgot. Anyone got a favorite they'd recommend? angela+++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both wind and tide." King Henry VI, Part III, IV, iii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 17:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23679 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16411; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29058 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:25:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29040 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA13715; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807AA74.10A9D591@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:28:05 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Needlework resources References: <0.afacbe73.253900b8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I promised a friend that I'd remember to post and ask for the addresses of > any needlework lists, or urls to any good needlework sites for her. > Anyone got a favorite they'd recommend? Several websties that I like. A couple are merchants. If you want my entire bookmark list let me know. :) http://www.anu.edu.au/english/jems/sharon/stitchdictionarycontents.html http://www.pacificnet.net/~pmarmor/bwarch.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Wymarc/master1.htm http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jscole/medembro.html http://www.classicstitches.com/ http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jscole/angelic.html http://library.advanced.org/12834/text/fahions.html http://www.nordicneedle.com/ -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 17:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23697 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19771; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04271 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:52:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f203.hotmail.com [209.185.130.113]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04262 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 47094 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 1999 22:51:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19991015225133.47093.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.166.45.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:51:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.166.45.47] From: "m b" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:51:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "m b" TITANIC gets my vote. >From: Gina Torretta >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "'Historic Costuming'" >Subject: H-COST: movie "inspirations" >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:07:40 -0500 > > >-Poster: Gina Torretta > >Could I beg the list's indulgence for a brief period and ask of everyone >their favorite >"authentic-period" movies where the costumer really did earn their academy >award >or nomination? > I've been following the career of Gabriella Pescucci, Deborah Scott >and >Sandy Powell. > >-gina ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 17:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23708 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21362; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06307 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:02:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06295 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:02:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.206] (58-125.netwurx.net [209.207.58.125]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27503 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:02:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F47@cid.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:02:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: art vs. accuracy Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Gina Torretta > >I've spent a month or less perusing my limited art books to discover that >I have *no* art of actual courtesan's couture (in fact I have no idea if a >Toulouse Lautrec could have existed at this time period eaking out a living >doing the portraits of the medieval call girl) Long ago, I made a note of a book called _Lives of the Courtesans: Portraits of the Renaissance_ by Lynne Lawner, ISBN 0-8478-0738-X. I have never actually seen this book, so I can't say anything about it, but it sounds relevant. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 18:20:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23740 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24535; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11404 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:34:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from access2.mountain.net (root@Access2.mountain.net [198.77.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11393 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from woodenporch.com (AM17-11.NewMartinsville-WV.Mountain.Net [198.77.13.210]) by access2.mountain.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13993 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380782EE.71BB5E9@woodenporch.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:39:34 +0000 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Arnold's Patterns of Fashion References: <199910151912.NAA14356@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lois On ebay I have two of Arnold's Patterns of Fashion: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182335099 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180208257 And an 1892 Harper's Bazar with a fold-out tissue pattern sheet with overlay patterns for several garments: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181956097 Postage is very reasonable, so check them out. Will be listing more. Lois -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 18:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23786 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:45:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26561; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:59:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14777 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:58:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14772 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-2.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA29538 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991014233028.009cb590@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:30:28 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts or check this out In-Reply-To: <007901bf1694$e93b1f00$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> References: <199910142131.OAA30103@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Given all the discussion about that outfit on ebay I have a question. Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the side (underarm) seams as well as the front? I've never seen any evidence for it in relation to Elizabethan stuff and was wondering if I'm missing something obscure and Italian or what? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 18:52:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23807 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:52:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27263; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15844 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:07:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15837 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.115.94]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991016000641.PICQ27183@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:06:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3807C1CB.50276593@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:07:39 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: art vs. accuracy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > -Poster: Melanie Schuessler > > >-Poster: Gina Torretta > > > >I've spent a month or less perusing my limited art books to discover that > >I have *no* art of actual courtesan's couture (in fact I have no idea if a > >Toulouse Lautrec could have existed at this time period eaking out a living > >doing the portraits of the medieval call girl) > > Long ago, I made a note of a book called _Lives of the Courtesans: > Portraits of the Renaissance_ by Lynne Lawner, ISBN 0-8478-0738-X. I have > never actually seen this book, so I can't say anything about it, but it > sounds relevant. > I have it - it's very relevant and an excellent book on courtesan lifestyles. However, most of the art presented is "speculative" in that a lot of it you probably already have in costume books, and the author is making reasoned assumptions based on history that some of the women depicted were courtesans. I guess respectable women didn't normally get painted in their underwear (shocking, I know ;-0). Great book - I recommend it. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 19:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23855 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:35:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00806; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21084 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:49:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21067 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-29.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.29]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA08714 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991015204310.00a6c410@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:43:10 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: art vs. accuracy In-Reply-To: <390837CDC52FD311AF8A00902786A8EA084F47@cid.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I was recently intrigued by a comment from a relative who is only >marginally aware of the historical validity of clothing. He had seen the >movie Dangerous Beauty and was asking me why the courtesan's >dresses exposed the legs in a majority of the scenes. Was this a >possible fashion of 16thc Venice? Or just artistic license of Pescucci? The exposed leg thing is actually a take off of some 16th century woodcuts but, not an accurate in terms of a style worn. There are a couple of woodcuts which either show two frames or have a flip-up portion. In the left hand picture is a picture of a Venetian woman wearing what appears to be a more-or-less normal gown (flip-up down). In the right hand picture or with the skirt flipped-up you see the woman's legs encased in Venetians (the knee-breeches type things). I believe this was possibly artists showing how scandalous Venetian ladies can be NOT a demonstration of cut-away skirts and bustles. >I've spent a month or less perusing my limited art books to discover >that I have *no* art of actual courtesan's couture (in fact I have no >idea if a Toulouse Lautrec could have existed at this time period eaking >out a living doing the portraits of the medieval call girl) Actually, I don't even know if the women depicted were actully cortesans but, the seem to be the obvious source of the costuming idea. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23981 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08129; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01956 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:14:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01944 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01361 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:23:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12295 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:23:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:23:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991015144127.007a5100@pop.utulsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I wrote: > >> Seriously, terminology at the time wasn't standard, so > >>anything we say today can only be arbitrary... Marc wrote: > >Unfortunately, while this is true enough, I'm not > >certain that it isn't overstating the issue far enough > >that it makes it somewhat pointless to try and even > >asume we know what we are talking about. Oh, I'm sorry. Out of context my comment is indeed an overstatement. In context, though, was responding to someone's query about a particular garment: "Is it a houppelande even though it's cut in such-and-so a way?" My point is exactly what you also said -- it all depends on your definition, and how narrowly or broadly we choose to apply the term. Within the period, the same word might refer to different things, and different words might refer to the same thing, and of course terms changed by locale/language as well as time. So beyond a certain core of cases in which we *know* the term was used, whether *we* call a particular item a houppelande is arbitrary, and our use of the term is meaningful only if all the people in our conversation understand exactly how we're defining "houppelande." Which might not be the same way some authors have defined houppelande, or a different group of costumers talking on another day, or even our same group of costumers talking a year ago or a year from now. That doesn't mean none of us know what we're talking about (and Marc's awe-inspiring discussion of "doublet" shows that some of us know more than others -- I couldn't have produced that much information). But as was pointed out some weeks ago, as we talk among ourselves, we have to be very very careful not to fall into the trap of assuming that the terms we use will mean the same thing to all others on this list, or in the costume or scholarly community as a whole. For instance, I've noticed that some costumers today use the term "cotehardie" to mean just about any fitted dress of 14th-15th century Europe. Twenty years ago I learned the term as meaning only a fitted overdress of 14th century Western Europe (primarily France, Flanders, England, Germany). So now when someone says "cotehardie," I make sure to stop and ask them exactly what they're referring to. (Especially crucial when someone asks me what I think of the 10-gore "cotehardie" construction...) That doesn't mean no one knows how the term "cotehardie" might have been used in the period; we have some evidence for its use, at various times and places. But it does mean our application of the term today is rather arbitrary -- can we use it for a Bohemian dress that looks identical to a French one, even though the Bohemians would not have used the same term? Can we use it for an underdress as well as an overdress? Can we use it for a dress of 1440 as well as one of 1380? For my purposes, when I talk about a 14th-century fitted dress, I call it a "14th-century fitted dress," because I figure that's the clearest way I can express myself. And I have a little boilerplate paragraph that goes within the first five minutes of every lecture I give: "Costume terminology was not standard at the time, and it is not standard today..." and then I state and define the exact terms I'm using in that lecture. Despite all this, someone not long ago read one of my papers and still came away confused because she was using a different definition for "tippet" than I was. It hadn't even occurred to me that there was another way to use that word in that context. That'll teach me to be even MORE careful about taking terminology for granted. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:13:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24004 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:13:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09553; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03614 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:27:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03607 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k562.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.162]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA01842 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807E1EA.4646@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:24:42 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" References: <940009185.16407.133@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi StitchWitch wrote: > > I don't know about the level of accuracy for this one, but it rates pretty > high on the inspiration side: Coppola's(sp?) Dracula. I loved nearly every > one of the costumes, even the odd ones worn by Lucy. (Though I'm not sure I liked "Dracula's" costumes in Dracula -- outrageous flights of fantasy all the way. And Sandy Powell's wonderful costumes in Wings of a Dove (is that the right title?) And the woman (I can't remember anything lately) who won the Oscar for Priscilla Queen of the Desert. Far out. And most of the programs in the British "Mystery" series (ok, it's TV, sorry) But in Poirot, for example, they go to such great pains to be "period". Even the shoes. And the King and I. Not very "authentic", but very gorgeous. And Raise High the REd Lantern for Chinese costumes. (don't think it got an oscar) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:14:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24008 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:14:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09695; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03720 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:29:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03715 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k562.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.162]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02034 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807E232.7750@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:25:54 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns References: <199910151110.HAA21613@williams.tricreations.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Elisee du Lyonnais wrote: > > -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais > > I carry the Costume Connection pattern. The hakama does have several > large pleats stitched onto two belts, one that ties to the front, with an > added trapezoidal shape in the back, and one that ties to the back. It > makes up beautifully and looks comfortable to wear. The hakama take over > 4 yards of 60" wide fabric, 4 7/8 in the larger sizes in 45". > > I would be interested in contact information for Round Earth to add them > to the stock of the shop. Round Earth is at: http://www.round-earth.com/ The focus is on hakama for Aikido and other martial arts. I haven't used the pattern yet, but the instructions are very good esp. about how to fit different sizes. It's meant for people who are really going to wear these things (and jump around in them) so they really have to work. I didn't have this one when I was making a pair for my son. I started with the drawing in the theatrical costume book I can't remember the name of, got the Folkwear pattern, got catalogues from other martial arts places, watched ninja movies (to see how they move), etc. But I also found a *genuine* silk pair in an antique shop and used them for a pattern. The bands/belts (himo) and back piece (koshiita) are not sturdy enough for martial arts and I had some trouble there, also with the pleats. The next pair is going to be great! cheers, Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:27:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24019 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10741; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05015 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:42:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05007 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991016024153.HRWA22020.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:41:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3807E5F1.F15C694@home.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:41:53 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: side-laced bodices References: <199910152358.RAA14811@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit > - -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the side > (underarm) seams as well as the front? I've never seen any evidence for it > in relation to Elizabethan stuff and was wondering if I'm missing something > obscure and Italian or what? The simplest answer is that the additional lacing (and the gaps they create) allow for greater length of wear for those who tend to go up and down in weight and dress size. (Of course, I'm almost wishing that was what I had just made...instead of the Irish dress I just finished...and forgot to re-fit one last time over the chemise alone. Laced all the way shut (instead of the 2 1/2 inch gap I planned) it still isn't snug enough...well, when I'm standing, and remembering my posture sitting down, anyway....I mean to give any real support/taming. Thankfully I don't need much..but I've still got to figure out how to alter it down a couple of sizes.) -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:43:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24054 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:43:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11982; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06760 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:57:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06747 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:57:32 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JCUa09316 (4117) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.672f9e0b.25394375@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:56:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 1:24:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ginnaphure@email.women.com writes: << I'm partial to the costumes in Resurection >> That's RESTORATION. [after the period it takes place in] Designed by James Acheson [another designer I like to mention I worked for :-)] He also did Dangerous Liaisons & The Last Emperor. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 21:48:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24063 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:48:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12399; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07394 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:02:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07388 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:02:47 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DMMqnQC9_ (4117) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.793865fd.253944b4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:02:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 2:06:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stitchwitch@excite.com writes: << Coppola's(sp?) Dracula. >> EWWWWWWWW! I hate it! A perfect example of beautiful ideas but a failure because nothing is remotely right. The date 1898 is flashed on the screen and the bustles are 1880. The men are all over the place....even in one costume! And the Klimt robe! And the Kabuki wedding dress! Yuk! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:03:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24095 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13166; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08938 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:17:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08916 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:17:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.4] (sdts11-155.znet.net [207.167.66.155]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA20360 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:17:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3807E5F1.F15C694@home.com> References: <199910152358.RAA14811@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:16:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >> - -Poster: Danielle Nunn >> >> Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the side >> (underarm) seams as well as the front? I've never seen any evidence for it >> in relation to Elizabethan stuff and was wondering if I'm missing something >> obscure and Italian or what? There are examples of side laced German Renn gowns, though the lacing was in lieu of, not in addition to front lacing. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:06:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24099 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:06:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13446; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09294 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:21:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09286 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:20:58 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NKHQN.JB_ (4117) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.95c13ae2.253948f4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:20:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/1999 6:53:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gwenvyre@hotmail.com writes: << TITANIC gets my vote >> This has some lovely things in it but I have a prob with it..... After I saw Wings of the Dove , I realized that Rose should've dress more like that. I mean she's supposed to be so unconventional and she dresses in the most conventional style of the day. She should be part of that crowd that wore the latest Poirot and Fortuni....especially after her trip to Europe. I did love that pale green gown you see for about 10 seconds.....with the lace tiered skirt. That yellow thing she sees Jack's [awful] sketches in with what looks like puffer paint on the shoulders was not as successful. I hope everyone realizes these are just MNSHO.....and won't get upset if I don't like what they do. Titanic & Dracula both have some lovely, exquisitely made things in them. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:10:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24108 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:10:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14095; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09745 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:24:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09740 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:24:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LGa003805 (3869) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.2061ae62.253949dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:24:12 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: wench To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Today, "wench" has the connotation of a loose woman, generally a lower-class one. But originally it meant any young woman or girl. "Lusty" is another word that's had a similar degradation. When Shakespeare called someone a "lusty wench," he meant a healthy young woman, nothing pejorative at all. Just to clarify things a bit. Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:20:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24124 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14782; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10641 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:34:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA10623 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910160334.VAA10623@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 22038 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 21:34:39 -0600 Received: from ts26-06.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.120) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 21:34:39 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:43:30 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" This is hard. I don't know off-hand which of my favorite costume movies won awards or not. I'm not even sure if they are accurate historically, but here goes anyway Shakespeare in Love (I marvel at the story every time I see this movie, how clever) I have seen it enough, that I have started looking at the people in the background and they all seem to be dressed so well. Artemisia - Fabulous Italian. And yes, you do get to see the underwear. Titanic - Completely out of my period. Don't have a clue how accurate, but beautiful. Young Bess - Looks like well researched Tudor to me. For the women anyway. Ghandi - Yes, that is what I said. There is a scene when Ghandi is still in Africa and they are having a meeting (?) I have never been able to forget all of those incredible turbans. The Wind and the Lion - The scene where the Marines land and march on the Palace (?) Love that uniform. Brian Keith as Teddy, it doesn't get much better than that. Paint Your Wagon, My Fair Lady, The King and I. I know, I know, Musicals. I can't help myself. Likely these could all be emotional choices, and I am sure that some people are scratching their heads over most of them. Oh well... Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:26:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24167 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15152; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11145 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:39:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11139 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:39:42 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VMOd2Bab_ (3971) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d1a9096d.25394d44@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:38:44 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Costume: Ebay Sellers (longish) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/99 10:45:04 AM Central Daylight Time, carrie@greateralchemy.net writes: << BTW, has anyone considered leaving neutral feedback comments on the seller & item in question? something like " no clothing ensemble is accurate for all of a 500 year span. " >> This shouldn't be done in their feedback file. If you wrote her personally that is enough. A person needs to be careful of what they post in a feedback file. It isn't for comments like that. What was the url for the garment again? Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:44:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24214 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:44:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16683; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13223 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:59:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13214 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port85.imag.net [204.244.111.85]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05462 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012d01bf178a$f2d60060$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:00:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello! It's finally Friday, and I can really read the list instead of browsing . . . . ahhhhhh. I'd have to say I have two current favorites: "Ever After" and "The Lion in Winter". However, I have a video I haven't watched yet, and that hasn't been mentioned: does anyone have any comments about the costuming in the movie "The Madness of King George"? And, just because I'm sentimental, any old big budget Hollywood musical with fancy dresses! No matter what era or how accurate! Zelda -----Original Message----- From: K & J Hopkins To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 15, 1999 8:36 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" > >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > >This is hard. I don't know off-hand which of my favorite costume movies >won awards or not. I'm not even sure if they are accurate historically, >but here goes anyway > >Shakespeare in Love (I marvel at the story every time I see this movie, how >clever) I have seen it enough, that I have started looking at the people >in the background and they all seem to be dressed so well. > >Artemisia - Fabulous Italian. And yes, you do get to see the underwear. > >Titanic - Completely out of my period. Don't have a clue how accurate, but >beautiful. > >Young Bess - Looks like well researched Tudor to me. For the women anyway. > >Ghandi - Yes, that is what I said. There is a scene when Ghandi is still >in Africa and they are having a meeting (?) I have never been able to >forget all of those incredible turbans. > >The Wind and the Lion - The scene where the Marines land and march on the >Palace (?) Love that uniform. Brian Keith as Teddy, it doesn't get much >better than that. > >Paint Your Wagon, My Fair Lady, The King and I. I know, I know, Musicals. >I can't help myself. > >Likely these could all be emotional choices, and I am sure that some people >are scratching their heads over most of them. Oh well... > >Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:59:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24235 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17901; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15712 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:14:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15702 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-94.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJO000NGH1BFE@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:12:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:12:17 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3807FB21.C354DEC9@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910160339.VAA11163@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >Oh, I'm sorry. Out of context my comment is indeed an overstatement. In > context, though, was responding to someone's query about a particular > garment: "Is it a houppelande even though it's cut in such-and-so a way?" > My point is exactly what you also said -- it all depends on your > definition, and how narrowly or broadly we choose to apply the term. I'm sorry, I hadn't intended to take your comment out of context, but merely to condense it to what I saw as the kernel of what you were saying. > Within the period, the same word might refer to different things, and > different words might refer to the same thing, and of course terms changed > by locale/language as well as time. So beyond a certain core of cases > in which we *know* the term was used, whether *we* call a particular item > a houppelande is arbitrary, and our use of the term is meaningful only if > all the people in our conversation understand exactly how we're defining > "houppelande." The problem is that "arbitrary", to me, implies that there's no point in trying to determine what terms were being used when, since people are just going to use them hither thither today. And that's what I was looking at. Personally, I'd like to hammer down what was meant by such and such a term at a set date (it's a dream, but hey, if you set goals you can easily meet, you set them too low). I apologize if that was not your intent. >That doesn't mean none of us know what we're talking about (and Marc's >awe-inspiring discussion of "doublet" shows that some of us know more >than others -- I couldn't have produced that much information)... Not to sound self-denegrating, but it's what I do. > For instance, I've noticed that some costumers today use the term > "cotehardie" to mean just about any fitted dress of 14th-15th century > Europe... I'll be honest, I've heard it (and the other one "houpelande") so many different ways, I have no idea what's right. I *am* pretty sure that calling any of the Herjolfsnes garments "cote-hardies" is wrong, but still people do it. >That doesn't mean no one knows how the term "cotehardie" might have >been used in the period; we have some evidence for its use, at various >times and places. But it does mean our application of the term today is >rather arbitrary -- can we use it for a Bohemian dress that looks >identical to a French one, even though the Bohemians would not have >used the same term? Can we? Sure? Should we? Should I call an Elizabethan bumroll a bustle? It does the same thing. In modern anthropology, native americans traditionally wear essentially two different sorts of footwear - moccasins and opankes. That means that Lakota have their shoes referred to by an Algonkian term - regardless of what it was made like, and Apaches a term that is Serbian. All because it's an easy shorthand. That also is why many people seem to think that European medieval shoes are "moccasins", so moccasins wind up being used as "medieval shoes", when they aren't. I do agree (obviously) it's something that we need to be careful about, and perhaps we can work to ameliorate the difficulty a bit. marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 23:01:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24250 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18140; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16000 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:16:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA15989 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910160416.WAA15989@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 263 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 22:16:43 -0600 Received: from ts26-19.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.133) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 22:16:43 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:25:35 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Orlando! How could I have forgotten Orlando!!! Amadeus, Restoration, Dangerous Liaisons (hated the movie, loved the costumes) Blade Runner, The Ghost and the Darkness, El Cid (I have always coveted that one mantle(?) of black and silver that the Cid wears over his armor. And if I ever get the chance to wear a coronet, I want the thin one with all the pearls, classy), Cannery Row, Ragtime, Boogie Nights, Pleasantville... OK, I will stop now and get my butt to bed. Wait, wait! The Ice Storm. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 15 23:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24272 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:16:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19229; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17465 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:31:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17459 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slippery.excite.com ([199.172.153.106]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991016043052.QRTZ24632.fortune.excite.com@slippery.excite.com> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:30:52 -0700 From: "maureen+ brown" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Costume: Ebay Sellers (longish) Message-Id: <940048254.12047.846@excite.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:30:54 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.138.14.204 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "maureen+ brown" It was my understanding that you're only allowed to leave comments if you're involved in the transaction; i.e., you've successfully bid on item and afterwards you can comment on the seller..please correct me if I'm wrong. --Maureen > > BTW, has anyone considered leaving neutral feedback comments on the seller & > item in question? something like " no clothing ensemble is accurate for all of a 500 > year span. " > > then bidders are warned, if they bother to check feedback > > Carrie ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 00:12:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24372 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:12:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23079; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23863 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:26:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23856 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04971 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:36:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA13444 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:36:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:36:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands In-Reply-To: <3807FB21.C354DEC9@utulsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I think we basically agree, though we're coming at the same points from different directions. Marc: > The problem is that "arbitrary", to me, implies that there's no point in > trying to determine what terms were being used when, since people are > just going to use them hither thither today. And that's what I was > looking at. Personally, I'd like to hammer down what was meant by such > and such a term at a set date (it's a dream, but hey, if you set goals > you can easily meet, you set them too low). > > I apologize if that was not your intent. Thanks -- it certainly wasn't my intent to imply that! Maybe I need a better term than "arbitrary." Maybe "random"? "generic"? I think part of the confusion is that I was referring not to the accurate understanding of historic terms as used by the people who invented them. You and I are in complete agreement about the value (and crying need) for that kind of scholarship, and I am in great debt to you and others like you who can get down to the exact references and sort them out -- so that I can use that knowledge in my own work. But I was referring to modern peoples' adoption of various medieval terms to mean something specific and immutable, and (almost always) to apply to a broader place and time than the term originally meant. This actually tends to blur the efforts of people who are trying to "hammer down" the details of exactly what term was used when and by whom, because once a term has been misapplied to cover too broad an area (like calling the Greenland gown a "cotehardie") it can be next to impossible to re-train people to use it another way. (If it's been used that way in a well-read costume book, it's even harder to reclaim exact use.) My own preference is to use the historic term as accurately as possible, which usually means pretty narrowly. But I have to figure that when I talk to a roomful of people (either a classroom or a "virtual room" like this list), there will be a very few people who know and understand the historic use of particular terms (like Marc), and other people who apply the same terms more generically -- or who have all read different costume books and have different definitions of the same term, or different terms to hang on the same garment. In general, I find it safest to use a modern descriptive -- ergo, "14th-century fitted underdress" or whatever -- to avoid confusion. The arbitrariness comes in any attempt to choose a single term when many might do -- and when there is no single historical term that is broad enough. If I'm talking about a style that crossed language divisions, I might have a choice of accurate terms (kirtle, tunica, gunna, etc.) -- and in choosing one to stand for all, and in giving it a fixed definition (when historically it might have been mutable over time), I would be making an arbitrary choice. So I will write/say something like this: "For the purposes of this paper, we will call this underlayer a `chemise,' even though the people who actually wore it might have called it by any of the following names..." which strikes me as more honest than the many books that declare "In the middle ages, women wore an underlayer called a chemise, a basic garment called a kirtle, and an overlayer called a surcote" -- leading some readers to believe that these terms were standard and fixed. > Should I call an Elizabethan bumroll a bustle? It does the same thing. And we do something similar when we call an Elizabethan upper-body shaper a "corset." I think it's probably too late to rescue *that* term from generic use. > I do agree (obviously) it's something that we need to be careful > about, and perhaps we can work to ameliorate the difficulty a bit. And we definitely agree there. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 00:49:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24445 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25740; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27551 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:04:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27535 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.184] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11cMwr-0007WX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:04:10 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:01:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Costume: Ebay Sellers (longish) In-Reply-To: <940048254.12047.846@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:30 PM 10/15/1999, "maureen+ brown" wrote: It was my understanding that you're only allowed to leave comments if you're involved in the transaction; i.e., you've successfully bid on item and afterwards you can comment on the seller..please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if that's true, but imnsho [and I'm not expecting anyone else to agree], it would be unethical for me to post comments on something I was not going to bid on, unless the seller and I had a negative history together and I stated that this was only my experience, and that that experience had caused me to decide not to transact business with that seller again. For me to do this, I would have to be very upset with the seller--for example--I had paid for an item, but never rec'd it. To write the seller directly with my thoughts/concerns regarding the description of the item would be fine. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 00:53:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24459 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25938; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:07:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27939 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:07:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.2.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27933 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:07:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p112.amax13.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.112]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01130 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38081591.57D9DA56@flash.net> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:05:06 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Needlework resources References: <0.afacbe73.253900b8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > I promised a friend that I'd remember to post and ask for the addresses of > any needlework lists, or urls to any good needlework sites for her. > > I forgot. Anyone got a favorite they'd recommend? > OK, I'd say that's an opening for a plug. *G* You can subscribe to the historical needlework list by sending the message 'subscribe h-needlework' to majordomo@ansteorra.org. Please note, this list is hosted on an SCA machine but is open to anyone and covers all time periods. --Charlene -- If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you give a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 01:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24494 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:13:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26875; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29992 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:28:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29987 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 63.26.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:27:51 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:19:42 -0400 Message-ID: <003101bf17a0$f9971ea0$9f0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <380740D8.88652BD1@mediaone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Could you share your formula for hakama with us so we could sew our own for our families?? Would be grateful! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Janice Dallas > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:57 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns > > > -Poster: Janice Dallas > > I used the Folkwear Pattern for a Production of "The Mikado". > It isn't > really a "pattern", but a set of instructions on how to draft it for > various sizes. My husband reduced it to a formula so we > could just put > the body measurements into the computer and it came up with > the correct > distances between points for each person. Since they varied > from waist > 24" to 63" and there were about 20 pants to make, this was helpful. > Instructions were simple enough for my "mixed bag" of > volunteer sewers. > -- > Janice Dallas > JaniceDals@MediaOne.net > "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 01:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24502 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26993; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00374 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:31:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00363 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.81]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991016063057.GZMR19487@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:30:57 +0000 Message-ID: <38081BDB.795B6E10@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:31:55 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? References: <012d01bf178a$f2d60060$03000004@van1282> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson The Rogue wrote: > I'd have to say I have two current favorites: "Ever After" and "The Lion in > Winter". However, I have a video I haven't watched yet, and that hasn't > been mentioned: does anyone have any comments about the costuming in the > movie "The Madness of King George"? I would kill for the red, white and blue outfit Queen Charlotte is wearing near the end of the movie. Costumes in general in this movie looked pretty good to me. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 01:19:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24506 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27080; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00606 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:34:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00596 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.161.81]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991016063333.HABN19487@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:33:33 +0000 Message-ID: <38081C78.E2C06953@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:34:32 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices References: <199910152358.RAA14811@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Julie Adams wrote: > > -Poster: Julie Adams > > >> - -Poster: Danielle Nunn > >> > >> Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the side > >> (underarm) seams as well as the front? I've never seen any evidence for it > >> in relation to Elizabethan stuff and was wondering if I'm missing something > >> obscure and Italian or what? > There are examples of side laced German Renn gowns, though the lacing was > in lieu of, not in addition to front lacing. Ditto on the Italians. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 04:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21153 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 04:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05436; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16599 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:31:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16401 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.238.149]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991016093123.EAFY7443.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:31:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3808AC0B.1779@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:47:07 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? References: <012d01bf178a$f2d60060$03000004@van1282> <38081BDB.795B6E10@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Carolyn Richardson wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Richardson > > The Rogue wrote: > > > I'd have to say I have two current favorites: "Ever After" and "The Lion in > > Winter". However, I have a video I haven't watched yet, and that hasn't > > been mentioned: does anyone have any comments about the costuming in the > > movie "The Madness of King George"? > > I would kill for the red, white and blue outfit Queen Charlotte is > wearing near the end of the movie. Costumes in general in this movie > looked pretty good to me. I quite agree. This is my dressing up period and I keep trying to think of an excuse to make it. It's a good example of women wearing military fashion in this period. My favourites Dangerous Liasons the best costumed opening sequence, Elizabeth, gone with the wind, when you stop and think there really are just too many to list. Just one thing while we're on this subject, we've just got the new adventures of robin Hood on terrestrial tv over here, can anyone let me have a manuscript or painting reference for babe marions little red leather number. A perfect example of a designers costume fantasy. I love it!! Dawn > > Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 07:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21312 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13899; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28266 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:57:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from websvr_cccs.pca.net ([207.136.43.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28254 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.234.113]) by websvr_cccs.pca.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:07:21 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BF17AB.7AF3AEA0@ELEMENTAL>; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:53:05 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF17AB.7AF3AEA0@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:40:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF17AB.7AFB4FC0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF17AB.7AFB4FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Dangerous Beauty", though accuracy checking is far beyond my skill. Carrie ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF17AB.7AFB4FC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgUMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABACEAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBtb3ZpZSAiaW5zcGlyYXRpb25zIgCgCgEFgAMADgAAAM8H CgAQAAcAKAAuAAYAUwEBIIADAA4AAADPBwoAEAAHACcAAAAGACQBAQmAAQAhAAAARDU0NEVGRjQ5 QTgzRDMxMThDMUEwMEEwMjQ5MDFBRjQAHQcBA5AGAPADAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMA JgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AACQzarTF78BHgBwAAEAAAAhAAAAUkU6 IEgtQ09TVDogbW92aWUgImluc3BpcmF0aW9ucyIAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb8X06qC9O9E1oOa EdOMGgCgJJAa9AAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABoAAABjYXJyaWVAZ3JlYXRl cmFsY2hlbXkubmV0AAAAAwAGEAMuxz4DAAcQQAAAAB4ACBABAAAAQQAAACJEQU5HRVJPVVNCRUFV VFkiLFRIT1VHSEFDQ1VSQUNZQ0hFQ0tJTkdJU0ZBUkJFWU9ORE1ZU0tJTExDQVJSSUUAAAAAAgEJ EAEAAADnAAAA4wAAADkBAABMWkZ1TYF+ZQMACgByY3BnMTI1FjIA+Atgbg4QMDMznQH3IAKkA+MC AGNoCsDgc2V0MCAHEwKDAFChEHZwcnEyEXZ9CoDZCMggOwlvDjA1AoAKgSx1YwBQCwNjAEF1bPpu AiBlC6cKsQqECoEMMXggIkQPEQSQCGAEIEIAZWF1dHkiLCBEdGgIYGdoIADQY7MIcADQeSAQ8AWQ awuAJGcgBAAgZgrBYmWieQIgZCBtGuBzG0DobGwuF7pDCsAIgRaBWwoRAUBpF6EDYHQFkHRxEgQx NiAK4wqAE4EAASCAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCAzPpr0xe/AUAACDCAzPpr 0xe/AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAUoUAALcNAAAeAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAGgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAA+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAA AAMAEIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwARgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA EYUAAAAAAAADABSACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AJIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEA AAAAAAAAHgAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAA AFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AADMrQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF17AB.7AFB4FC0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 09:13:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21387 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:13:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19149; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06135 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:26:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from websvr_cccs.pca.net ([207.136.43.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06129 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.234.113]) by websvr_cccs.pca.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:35:43 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BF17B7.D27992A0@ELEMENTAL>; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:21:26 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF17B7.D27992A0@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: H-cost: Ebay seller Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:19:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra Re: leaving neutral feedback I agree, the *best* course of action would be to engage the seller in an email conversation. the Ebay feedback system currently allows any registered user to leave feedback on any other registered user, referencing a specific auction or independently of any specific auction. You do not have to be engaged in an auction with the person presently or in the past. The ratings system only counts (1) for feedback left by a unique user (you could leave hundreds of positive feedback items for your friend, you would only influence their rating once). The system also requires you to wait (I'm not certain how long) before leaving additional feedback for the same user. A feedback item left with a neutral flag does not impact the user's overall rating. As in posting auctions & sending email to a mailing list or other public forum, one should check one's attitude, double check one's wording, and be willing to claim every word before leaving a feedback message of positive, negative or neutral value. Carrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 09:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21391 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19243; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06239 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:27:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06231 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910161427.IAA06231@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 32626 invoked from network); 16 Oct 1999 08:27:07 -0600 Received: from ts26-39.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.153) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 1999 08:27:07 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:35:54 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > >> Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the side > > >> (underarm) seams as well as the front? Not only the 'side' of the garment, directly under the arms, but the 'side back' also, if I am not mistaken. So the back of the bodice would be in three or four pieces. But, now that I am looking at Orazio Gentileschi's, The Lute Player, I see that there does not appear to be a side seam at all! Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 11:08:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21530 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:08:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27811; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:22:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18235 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:22:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18227 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.49.158]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:22:07 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:18:27 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <380fa4a8.290156989@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <940009185.16407.133@excite.com> In-Reply-To: <940009185.16407.133@excite.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA18229 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:39:45 PDT, the following was written in this electric book by "StitchWitch" : >I don't know about the level of accuracy for this one, but it rates pretty >high on the inspiration side: Coppola's(sp?) Dracula. I loved nearly every >one of the costumes, even the odd ones worn by Lucy. (Though I'm not sure >I'd go for the lace thing around my neck that she was buried in. Is that >remotely period for anywhen?) That whole outfit was inspired by a Klimt painting, and he's period (to the 1890's), but extremely stylized. His work was a big stylistic influence on the whole film, even the posters and ads. Hpoe this answered your question! margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 12:12:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21590 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03062; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25669 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:24:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25663 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA21401 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3808B517.3BDC3D04@best.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:25:43 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Ebay seller References: <01BF17B7.D27992A0@ELEMENTAL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > the Ebay feedback system currently allows any registered > user to leave feedback on any other registered user, referencing > a specific auction or independently of any specific auction. You > do not have to be engaged in an auction with the person > presently or in the past. The ratings system only counts (1) for > feedback left by a unique user (you could leave hundreds of > positive feedback items for your friend, you would only influence > their rating once). The system also requires you to wait (I'm not > certain how long) before leaving additional feedback for the same > user. A feedback item left with a neutral flag does not impact > the user's overall rating. > > As in posting auctions & sending email to a mailing list or other public > forum, one should check one's attitude, double check one's wording, > and be willing to claim every word before leaving a feedback message > of positive, negative or neutral value. I've bought on ebay for a long time. And I've read a lot of feedback on other people's transactions. Yes, a greal deal of merchandise on ebay is misdated or otherwise misdescribed. When sellers range from amateurs conducting on-line yard sales, through professional dealers dumping merchandise that didn't sell elsewhere, to professionals who consistently sell accurately described, quality merchandise, that's what you'd expect. Furthermore, sellers and buyers can be honest, prompt, and pleasant to deal with; or sometimes the reverse. However, as I understand ebay's policies, feedback is meant to reflect your _own_ experiences _doing business with_ with that seller, buyer, or bidder _at ebay's auctions_. I don't think I've ever seen feedback left on an item description by someone who did not bid or sell at that auction. Certainly, ebay tries to prevent "feedback bombing," which is what they call feedback left by either enemies or friends of the ebay member to damage or inflate that member's business reputation. I have seen feedback bombing expressly forbidden in ebay policies, they reserve the right to edit the feedback file in such cases, and I have seen such edited files. I think the members of an unrelated mailing list getting together to leave feedback for an ebay seller they have never (as far as I know) done business with, would be classified as feedback bombing. Frankly, what _are_ people's motives here? I really don't believe, whether the feedback is presented politely/privately or not, that "education" is one of them. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 12:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21610 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03700; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26642 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:33:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26633 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:33:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HHHa14300 (4332) for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.13b27ee3.253a10b6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:32:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 17 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 10/16/99 5:34:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: << My favourites Dangerous Liasons the best costumed opening sequence, Elizabeth, gone with the wind, when you stop and think there really are just too many to list. >> I just have to be picky...my friends will never watch GWTW with me again. The costumes in this movie have some, slight, sence of being correct...well...they wore hoops, at least...but mostly they are SO off, as is the hair. Now, some of Melly's dresses are much closer, but at least towards the end too young for her. Not to say I don't like the movie. Vivianne Leight and Olivia DeHavellend (or however you spell that) are simply fabulous. My favorite movies...Ever After, Pleasentville, Emma, Elizabeth, Shakespeare in Love, Austin Powers (seriously!), Casablanca...probably more I can't think of. I also saw Midsummer's Night Dream at the Stradsford Frestival in Canada last weekend. Fabulous production, and the fairies were beautiful. I wanted to take Puck home with me. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com acstacy@cc.owu.edu Delaware, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 13:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21728 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07163; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01580 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:15:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01574 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:15:48 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HMRa11406 (3967) for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.62c489a2.253a1ab0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:15:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Costume: Ebay Sellers (longish) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com >From the feedback forum: The Feedback Rating system is easy. You receive: +1 point for each positive comment 0 points for each neutral comment -1 point for each negative comment (Negative comments can only be left by the winning high bidder and seller in an auction. Also, if a comment is not about an eBay transaction, it is not counted) You can leave multiple comments in someone's Feedback Profile, but they'll only count once (+1). This makes the system fair. No one person can "tip the scales" in either feedback direction, positive or negative. Q.Can any bidder leave feedback about a specific auction or just the winning bidder? A. Only the seller and successful bidder (one for a regular auction, several for a Dutch Auction) can leave transaction-related feedback about a specific buy or sell transaction. You are responsible for your own words. Your comments will be attributed with your name and the date. eBay cannot take responsibility for the commentsyou post here, and you should be careful about makingcomments that could be libelous or slanderous. To be safe, make only factual,emotionless comments. Contact your attorney if you have any doubts. Once left,Feedback cannot be retracted or edited by you or by eBay. Please try to resolve any disputes with the other party before publicly declaring a complaint. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 14:03:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21907 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:03:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12793; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08969 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:13:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA08961 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:13:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Oct 16 12:12:43 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:12:43 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.104 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Thanks, after I typed it and sent it I thought, Oh damn, that's restoration wasn't it...? sorry about that --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:56:53 AlbertCat wrote: > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/15/1999 1:24:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >ginnaphure@email.women.com writes: > ><< I'm partial to the costumes in Resurection >> > That's RESTORATION. [after the period it takes place in] Designed by James >Acheson [another designer I like to mention I worked for :-)] He also did >Dangerous Liaisons & The Last Emperor. > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 14:10:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21919 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:10:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13510; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10172 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:25:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10153 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.159] (helo=[166.70.12.119]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11cZS2-0001ZQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:25:10 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:30:10 -0600 To: Costume list From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: H-COST: Period Patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire I have followed the discussions on this list concerning the Simplicity Patterns with interest. You've noted the modern cuting styles and over simplified construction and modern shortcuts. May I turn the direction of your critism to Period Patterns? I am particularly intersted in the late style tunics (1200's) in Pattern #16. I am really a novice at period cutting styles. I've looked at the web sites and books that show line drawins of archeological finds, I've even tried using these cutting styles in clothes for my daughter's barbies. Though the clothes look really good on the dolls, I'm a little intimidated about trying to cut into a peice of fabric that has cost more than I had a right to spend. (We are at the struggling, but have to make clothes and armor stage.) The other day when I was looking at a suggested web site I saw this pattern by Period Patterns and wondered what you all think of them. They are too expensive for me to just buy one and see. Is it a good step from the Simplicity type pattern toward blindly cutting into a peice of $10 a yard fabric and knowing it's going to look good and that I won't be giving it away a year later because I hate the way it fits and the fact that it's really not that period? Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 15:11:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22050 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:11:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17883; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16940 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:25:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16932 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:25:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.124.32]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991016202507.DHMC12079.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:25:07 +0100 Message-ID: <380943EA.6FF4@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:35:06 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? References: <0.13b27ee3.253a10b6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AliaClaire@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/16/99 5:34:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: > > << My favourites Dangerous Liasons the best costumed opening sequence, > Elizabeth, gone with the wind, when you stop and think there really are > just too many to list. >> > > I just have to be picky...my friends will never watch GWTW with me again. The > costumes in this movie have some, slight, sence of being > correct...well...they wore hoops, at least...but mostly they are SO off, as > is the hair. They are as accurate as most films and are for the most part gorgeous I've just remembered Amadeus. and if we're talking inspiration the film that inspired me to become a costume proffessional was wait for it............ John Wayne's Genghis Kahn. I figured if they could get away with it so could I and decided that was what I wanted to do with my life. So young so impressionable _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 15:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22115 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21124; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22106 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:09:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.2.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22098 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:09:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p139.amax28.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.70.139]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20717 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:09:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3808E8EA.838DB2B1@flash.net> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:06:51 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: late 15th C Italian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette We have a high-persona event coming up. It's geographically and temporally far from my usual persona. For this event I'll be a late 15th C Italian (Venice) fruitseller (preferably female). Any pointers to appropriate clothing? Thanks, --Charlene -- If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you give a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 16:00:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22128 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21476; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22619 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:14:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22612 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:14:52 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6MXUa18036 (4362) for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.708a6f13.253a44aa@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:14:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Period Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Francesca, I can't help you on the particular patterns you are interested in--my interest is another time period and I make my own patterns. But, always try patterns out in cheap fabric first. If muslin is too expensive for you, go to a thrift store and get some second-hand sheets to cut up. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 16:23:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22198 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:23:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23267; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25011 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:35:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24996 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25563 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:34:15 -0700 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:34:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199910162134.OAA25563@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Period Patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >The other day when I was looking at a suggested web site I saw this pattern >by Period Patterns and wondered what you all think of them. They are too >expensive for me to just buy one and see. Is it a good step from the >Simplicity type pattern toward blindly cutting into a peice of $10 a yard >fabric and knowing it's going to look good and that I won't be giving it >away a year later because I hate the way it fits and the fact that it's >really not that period? > I've never actually made up a Period Pattern, but I've heard they tend to have a lot of problems with fit, and that the directions can be confusing. However, if you're worried about it not fitting well and wasting your expensive fabric, why not do what the professionals do, and make a muslin first? Just make the pattern up in an inexpensive fabric, like the $.99 muslin from JoAnne's . You can leave out facings, hems, etc, to test for fit. If you like the fit, make it up in your good fabric. You can also finish the muslin one and use it for an undertunic, sleep shirt, or hot weather/messy job garb. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 16:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22212 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23917; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26054 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:44:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26036 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:44:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DVIa09316 (3889) for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5c2796e0.253a4b98@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:43:52 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com There are so many! I loved the costumes in "The Scarlet Letter," although the movie stunk. "Dangerous Liaisons" was good but "Valmont" (same book, same movie release time, no fanfare) was better. Also a better movie, IMHO (although both had different endings from the book). "Age of Innocence." The old "Three Musketeers" movies were probably my original impetus for historic costuming, and I still love them. I could go on and on. I love "Thoroughly Modern Millie" for movie musical costumes. "Singing in the Rain" has nice costumes too, especially the movie Baroque costumes. And I love lots of the old Hollywood King Arthur ones, which often have the right look if the wrong fabrics and construction. Like "Robin Hood" and "The Court Jester." They look more like the real thing than most of the new Hollywood medieval stuff, which usually just looks stupid. IMHO, of course. Don't get me started on the Kevin Costner "Robin Hood," or the Disney "Three Musketeers," which are so bad that the bad costumes look good. Olivia de Havelland looks great in a wimple, even if the wimple isn't right! When I was young, that's what I wanted to look like. Heck, that's STILL what I want to look like! Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 20:57:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22440 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07377; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13026 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:22:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13020 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03241 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-48-172-206.nas-2.scf.primenet.com(208.48.172.206), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAvuairg; Sat Oct 16 17:22:01 1999 Message-ID: <05ff01bf1835$16527820$a33184ce@com> From: "Kels" To: "Historical Costume List" Subject: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:18:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kels" Hi all-- One of my favorites is Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, by the same writer/director as Shakespeare in Love, for those of you who don't know. I read the play when I was a teenager, and it was made even better in the movie. Stoppard had a chance to use about twenty more years of writing experience to re-do it as a movie. I love that movie, and I want to make R&G's costumes, the Player King's and Hamlet's. In Orlando I want to do that black doublet and outfit s/he's in for the Elizabethan section. Black Adder ll's black leather outfit as well. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 20:57:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22447 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02676; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07695 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:30:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07690 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port86.imag.net [204.244.111.86]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA17615 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003501bf182e$9a7e6480$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations - I don't remember the name of it! Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:31:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" OH, I just remembered one that I saw a while back - it was from the 50's, I'd guess, about Henry VIII's sister Mary (Margaret?). It was on twice, and each time I only caught the last half hour, so I can't say much about it other than the sister wound up marrying the dashing young man, who had an actually not bad rapier fight sequence late in the show. It had the word "Rose" (?) in the title, something like The (blank) and the Rose? Anyhow, I loved the costumes in it, so much so that I paid attention to nothing else!! How accurate they were, I don't know, but they looked fairly close (but I'm no expert). Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Gaelscot@aol.com To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: October 16, 1999 2:45 PM Subject: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >There are so many! I loved the costumes in "The Scarlet Letter," although the >movie stunk. "Dangerous Liaisons" was good but "Valmont" (same book, same >movie release time, no fanfare) was better. Also a better movie, IMHO >(although both had different endings from the book). "Age of Innocence." The >old "Three Musketeers" movies were probably my original impetus for historic >costuming, and I still love them. I could go on and on. I love "Thoroughly >Modern Millie" for movie musical costumes. "Singing in the Rain" has nice >costumes too, especially the movie Baroque costumes. And I love lots of the >old Hollywood King Arthur ones, which often have the right look if the wrong >fabrics and construction. Like "Robin Hood" and "The Court Jester." They look >more like the real thing than most of the new Hollywood medieval stuff, which >usually just looks stupid. IMHO, of course. Don't get me started on the Kevin >Costner "Robin Hood," or the Disney "Three Musketeers," which are so bad that >the bad costumes look good. Olivia de Havelland looks great in a wimple, even >if the wimple isn't right! When I was young, that's what I wanted to look >like. Heck, that's STILL what I want to look like! > >Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 20:57:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22444 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02418; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07234 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:26:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07224 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goober ([207.193.32.222]) by mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with SMTP id <0FJP00A5ZYFCLN@mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:26:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:18:44 -0700 From: Maleah Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <007201bf183e$ddf7b260$0101a8c0@goober> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 References: <199910161427.IAA06231@net.indra.com> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Maleah The lacing on the side back are directly attributable to a period garment belonging to Eleanora of Toledo in which she was buried. This bodice is featured as one of the examples in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion c.1560-1620" pgs 40-41, plates 286, 288-291. A more detailed description is with the penciled sketch on pages 102-104. Very good to help you see exactly how it all fits. I have several bodices made from this pattern and they work beautifully. Hope this helps. Maleah maleah@swbell.net ----- Original Message ----- From: K & J Hopkins To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 7:35 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices > > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > > > >> Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the > side > > > >> (underarm) seams as well as the front? > > Not only the 'side' of the garment, directly under the arms, but the 'side > back' also, if I am not mistaken. So the back of the bodice would be in > three or four pieces. But, now that I am looking at Orazio Gentileschi's, > The Lute Player, I see that there does not appear to be a side seam at > all! > > Kathlene > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 20:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22451 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01884; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06300 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:16:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06288 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA27956 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:46:33 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA14979; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:46:32 +0930 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:46:31 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices In-Reply-To: <199910161427.IAA06231@net.indra.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > > > >> Does anyone know of the origin of SCA/Ren Fair thing of lacing the > side > > > >> (underarm) seams as well as the front? > > Not only the 'side' of the garment, directly under the arms, but the 'side > back' also, if I am not mistaken. So the back of the bodice would be in > three or four pieces. But, now that I am looking at Orazio Gentileschi's, > The Lute Player, I see that there does not appear to be a side seam at > all! > Eleanor of Toledo's burial gown was laced down the side backs, but again only down there, not also down the front/back/sides. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 20:57:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22455 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29583; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03660 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:52:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03647 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991016225211.GGXX8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3808FFB9.66A8DAD5@home.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:44:09 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Period Patterns References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Period Patterns #16 is the one that Mistress Nerak makes her tunics for the men of House Ladyhall out of... so far as I know, it isn't hard to work with so long as you follow her rules... 1) never, ever, ever cut the pattern pieces... make new ones out of butcher paper (or newsprint or cut open brown bags etc) 2) look at the pictures and don't read the instructions (this particular pattern is fairly easy to put together) and 3) make a muslin pattern first. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 21:06:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22490 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17627; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24686 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:20:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24677 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goober ([207.193.32.102]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with SMTP id <0FJQ000ZC6I10G@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:20:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:22:31 -0700 From: Maleah Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations - I don't remember the name of it! To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <001001bf1857$3b704ca0$0101a8c0@goober> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 References: <003501bf182e$9a7e6480$03000004@van1282> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Maleah I believe you are referring to the movie "The Sword and the Rose" a Disney production starring Glynis Johns (the same one who is in Court Jester with Danny Kaye) as Mary Tudor, and Richard Todd as Charles Brandon. She is Henry VIII's sister who secretly marries Charles Brandon after her husband the King of France dies. I can't find the release date on my copy of the video but I believe it was about the same time frame as the "Court Jester." The men's costumes are gorgeous and for the most part at least close to accurate but the women's garb leaves something to be desired. Still entertaining none the less..... You should be able to purchase a copy almost anywhere. At least I've seen it in our local Wal-Mart lately. FYI Margaret Henry's other sister married the Scottish King and is Mary Queen of Scots paternal grandmother hence her claim to the English throne. And we all know what happened from there. Maleah maleah@swbell.net ----- Original Message ----- From: The Rogue To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations - I don't remember the name of it! > > -Poster: "The Rogue" > > OH, I just remembered one that I saw a while back - it was from the 50's, > I'd guess, about Henry VIII's sister Mary (Margaret?). It was on twice, and > each time I only caught the last half hour, so I can't say much about it > other than the sister wound up marrying the dashing young man, who had an > actually not bad rapier fight sequence late in the show. It had the word > "Rose" (?) in the title, something like The (blank) and the Rose? > > Anyhow, I loved the costumes in it, so much so that I paid attention to > nothing else!! How accurate they were, I don't know, but they looked fairly > close (but I'm no expert). > > Zelda > -----Original Message----- > From: Gaelscot@aol.com > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Date: October 16, 1999 2:45 PM > Subject: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations > > > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >There are so many! I loved the costumes in "The Scarlet Letter," although the > >movie stunk. "Dangerous Liaisons" was good but "Valmont" (same book, same > >movie release time, no fanfare) was better. Also a better movie, IMHO > >(although both had different endings from the book). "Age of Innocence." The > >old "Three Musketeers" movies were probably my original impetus for historic > >costuming, and I still love them. I could go on and on. I love "Thoroughly > >Modern Millie" for movie musical costumes. "Singing in the Rain" has nice > >costumes too, especially the movie Baroque costumes. And I love lots of the > >old Hollywood King Arthur ones, which often have the right look if the wrong > >fabrics and construction. Like "Robin Hood" and "The Court Jester." They look > >more like the real thing than most of the new Hollywood medieval stuff, which > >usually just looks stupid. IMHO, of course. Don't get me started on the Kevin > >Costner "Robin Hood," or the Disney "Three Musketeers," which are so bad that > >the bad costumes look good. Olivia de Havelland looks great in a wimple, even > >if the wimple isn't right! When I was young, that's what I wanted to look > >like. Heck, that's STILL what I want to look like! > > > >Gail > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 16 21:18:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22503 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19021; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25774 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:32:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25767 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:32:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.4] (helo=[166.70.12.4]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11cg7a-0006BD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:32:31 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3808FFB9.66A8DAD5@home.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:43:57 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: Period Patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Period Patterns #16 is the one that Mistress Nerak makes her tunics for >the men of House Ladyhall out of... so far as I know, it isn't hard to >work with so long as you follow her rules... 1) never, ever, ever cut >the pattern pieces... make new ones out of butcher paper (or newsprint >or cut open brown bags etc) 2) look at the pictures and don't read the >instructions (this particular pattern is fairly easy to put together) >and 3) make a muslin pattern first. > >Kat I always make a newsprint copy of my patterns because I hate messing up. Are the instructions that bad? Once, in the first few months I was in the SCA my sister, who joined about the same time in a different city was given access to a pattern that was so hard. It was for a cotehardie and surcote. The pattern said it was sized up to 20 or something but when I cut out the fabric and stitched it up I knew it was at least several sizes smaller than what it said. My sister never knew who made the pattern. Could this be the same company? I have very bad memories and a half finished dress I can't do anything with. Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 00:02:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22719 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 00:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02303; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10132 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:52:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10126 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-239.s239.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.239]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA08367 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 00:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02a601bf185b$c1a57580$ec4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <003501bf182e$9a7e6480$03000004@van1282> <001001bf1857$3b704ca0$0101a8c0@goober> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations - I don't remember the name of it! Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 00:39:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The name of the Danny Kaye film is The Court Jester. The costumes were designed by Edith Head. It was made in 1956. Check the Internet Movie Database, http://us.imdb.com/ for more information on this or any film. The Court Jester was on either TCM or AMC last month. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > I believe you are referring to the movie "The Sword and the Rose" a Disney > production starring Glynis Johns (the same one who is in Court Jester with > Danny Kaye) as Mary Tudor, and Richard Todd as Charles Brandon. She is Henry > VIII's sister who secretly marries Charles Brandon after her husband the > King of France dies. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 10:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19809 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06104; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26033 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:46:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26026 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:46:37 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NSFa19934 (4116) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f7c12590.253b4938@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:46:00 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" - Madness of King George? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/16/1999 4:26:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: << I've just remembered Amadeus. >> Amadeus is the film I love to hate! [I know, I know....everyone's a critic!] I found the costumes completely awful but for the ones taken directly from portraits. I can't explain it.....they look like a high school project to me. Those awful wigs! Not just Woofie's.... everyone's! The same designer did Valm ont....which I also found amateurish. Remember.....this is just MNSHO! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 10:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19833 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06536; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26798 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:54:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26792 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:54:26 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TTMa03805 (4116) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.8f1e31c4.253b4b10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:53:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/16/1999 5:45:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << "Dangerous Liaisons" was good but "Valmont" (same book, same movie release time, no fanfare) was better. >> See...different strokes... But as Skeptics often say "Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof" You'll have to explain why you think this! James Acheson's designs are exquisite! All I can remember about Valmont is some coat he wears that looks like blue willow china....and is a fabric they would never have used for a coat.....and that awful short pannier thing Cecile wears. What outfits did you feel captured upper crust France better than in Dangerous Liaisons? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 10:46:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19850 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:46:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07002; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27443 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:01:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27435 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GRL0sTATp (4116) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c55ab390.253b4c04@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:57:56 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/16/1999 5:45:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << I love "Thoroughly Modern Millie" for movie musical costumes. >> I must say here [since I sorta put you on the spot in my last post....and because all I've talked about is what I don't like] that this film is the earliest one I remember the costumes inspiring me. I use to draw them in class instead of listening to the teacher....especially the black & white thing she wears when she decides to become "Chic & mysterious". What great clothes! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 10:53:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19856 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07573; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28233 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:08:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28224 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.85]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09295 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:06:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:06:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199910171606.JAA09295@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson All I can remember about Valmont is some coat he wears that looks >like blue willow china....and is a fabric they would never have used for a >coat.....and that awful short pannier thing Cecile wears. and that the women are either wearing no corset, or really badly cut and fitted ones. Even my sister who doesn't sew caught this. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 15:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20394 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04195; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:00:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00270 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:58:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00261 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:58:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rust.net (69-133.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.133]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21936 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380A2A28.E7308769@rust.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:57:28 -0400 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: Hoop skirts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen I'm rather behind in my digests and may have missed a few posts so please forgive my delay and any repeated bits of info. Regarding poufs being used for sitting when wearing a hoop skirt, I can't speak of other time periods, but I've never seen nor heard of any special seating used during the crinoline era of the 1850's and 1860's. All a woman needed in that era was a chair with no arms. Someone posted a place that offered hoops for $65 and asked if anyone else had them for less. If historic accuracy and proper shape and skirt support, at least for the 1850's to about 1865, is at all important, I find it hard to imagine anyone could make a cage for that price. If accuracy is not a factor, ACW merchants offer a variety of covered hoops with 4 to 6 plastic covered metal hoops for as low as $35-$40. They would be fine for theatrical productions and other shorter term use where 'suspension of disbelief' is a major element. They are much better than those sold in bridal shops that's for sure. If on the other hand your purpose is to create as an impression as accurate as you can make it, a reproduction cage is the best choice. They have a more accurate shape and they move in a more period appropriate way. If you are interested in the latter, a good source for cage crinolines is Heritage Reproductions at: http://members.tripod.com/~heritage_repro/ If I may be so bold, I now offer cage crinoline on-line as well at: http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/GCATALOG At the risk of sounding like I'm bragging, I must say our quality matches that of Heritage, but at a somewhat more modest price. We also offer a wider range of cage diameters for different purposes. I hope I haven't broken any list rules regarding "advertising"... Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 16:19:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20469 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07200; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04242 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:33:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04237 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:33:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6CCIa12223 (3868) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.9818c409.253b9a8d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:33:01 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: valmont To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Actually, I cannot defend that choice at all. I saw both films before I knew much about that period, clothing-wise, and haven't seen them since. I just remember that I liked "Valmont" better. I do think it was a better film (What was supposed to be remotely attractive about what's-his-name, who played Valmont, in DL? How could anyone take him seriously as an irresistable Don Juan?), but the costumes in "Dangerous Liaisons" were probably better. Maybe I remember the costumes in "Valmont" as being better than they were because I liked the film. I thought it did a good job of showing aristocratic life -- tons of servants, lots of picnics and dancing and romping about. That thing they put Cecile in, though, was just plain stupid -- the whole scene was stupid. Cecile in "DL" looked dumb too. Was it Uma Thurman? She was shaped all wrong for the clothes, she looked like a twig. Sort of like Elle McPherson in "Jane Eyre." She may be our idea of a perfect beauty, but she looked like a colt in that hoop skirt and off-the-shoulder ballgown, meant for a small, dainty figure. It's interesting to see how clothes of the time fit the ideal look of the time -- not necessarily our ideal look. Gail PS: The book is still better than either movie, or the play. And ALL FOUR have different endings! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 17:20:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20554 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11805; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09182 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09171 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:18:58 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DIWOb39U_ (4199) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.655dec63.253ba52e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:18:22 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: valmont To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/17/1999 5:34:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << Was it Uma Thurman? She was shaped all wrong >> This is an intersting observation. The best use of this kind of thing is in Je fferson in Paris. Gweneth Paltro is perfect as the tall, gawky Virginia girl with buck teeth among petit, dreamy French beauties. She stood out wonderfully from the rest of the girls in their red wool school uniforms. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 17:20:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20557 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11897; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09220 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA09212 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991017222220.15938.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.72.67] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:22:20 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: valmont To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > it was a better film (What > was supposed to be remotely attractive about > what's-his-name, who played > Valmont, in DL? How could anyone take him seriously > as an irresistable Don > Juan?), but the costumes in "Dangerous Liaisons" Honestly, I think John Malkovich is one of the sexiest men of our time... AND he (in my opinion) is a great actor... Dangerous Liasons, Con-Air and Man in the Iron Mask all were better movies for his being there... Just my 2 cents. Sarah ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 17:20:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20560 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:20:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11644; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08814 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:15:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08809 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:15:23 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6MIJa09294 (4199) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f593d0e5.253ba456@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:14:46 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: valmont To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/17/1999 5:34:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << Maybe I remember the costumes in "Valmont" as being better than they were because I liked the film. >> Ahhhh...that sounds reasonable. I still think DL is a better film. Everyone was too young in Valmont and not EVIL...with a capital "E". I do agree that John Malcovich was not the most obvious choice where you think you might need a 38-ish gorgeous man....but he does well. I have a hard time believing Michelle Pfifer hadn't been hit on before. But now we've really gotten OT! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 17 23:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21191 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20280; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26629 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:11:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26622 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-43.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJS00JDC90HVQ@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:09:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:09:20 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Terminology (was: Pourpoints & Houppelands) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <380AAB80.DCAA5900@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <3809483A.1B8CAC5B@utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Earlier this weekend, Robin Netherton and I were discussing the seemingly unstructured nature of modern usage of historical terms, and it appeared that her use of the term "arbitrary" hit a negative cord with me. We appear to agree on the essentials, that because of the difficulties of the modern usage, it's important that we try to get to examine and share the meanings, while focusing on the realities of modern usage (if I have misunderstood this, I hope that she will correct me). As an example of a term where the modern definition has been badly confused by obscure interpretation, we can look at the word "Cyclas". If we look at the interpretations available on the Internet, it would be understandable if we assumed that the definition were of a sideless surcote, of the sort also apparently called "gates of hell" (or having "gates of hell" sleeves), or that it meant a crusader-style surcote - with perhaps the former developing from the latter. There is also an interpretation of the garment that appears to blend a surcote with a cope. For the record, the following web-sites were used to make this description (I cite these not for any criticism of their usage, but because they are what I found after an extensive search, and it's important that I DO cite them): http://renstore.com/cyclas.shtml http://www.varmouries.com/vcloth.html http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/archi/howshall/arthurm/costume/making.html http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/archi/howshall/arthurm/costume/costume.html http://www.village.org/sca/costuming_0696.html http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/clothing-L-msg.html http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/womensleine.htm http://virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm There is also a website that describes a cyclas as a woman's mantle with some sort of border around it. http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/jlsgloss.html This suggests two totally differing interpretations of the term. If we look at the basic dictionaries, we can see where some of this confusion might arise: "[Latin cyclas, Greek kuklas a women's garment with a border all around it.]  A tightly-fitting upper garment or tunic worn by women from ancient times; also sometimes by men, esp. the tunic or surcoat made shorter in front than behind, won by knights over their armour in the 14th century. 1860 FAIRHOLT Costume 97 The lady wears a long gown, over which is a cyclas, or tightly fitting upper body garment... [i.e. a catachrestic or erroneous use] Identified or confused with CICLATOUN q.v.; see also Du Cange s.v. Cyclas. 1834 PLANCHÉ British Costumes 95  "a rich stuff manufactured in the Cyclades, and therefore called cyclas or ciclatoun, gave its name to a garment like a dalmatic or supertunic worn by both sexes. 1876 ROCK Text. Fabr, iv. 27. [n.b. Ciclatoun [Obsolete] Various forms in English from 13th century to 16th: ciclatun(e, ciclatoun, siclatoun, sikelatoun, syclatoun, sicladoun, siklatoun, ciclatoune, syclatowne, syclatown, shecklaton, checklaton [Old French ciclaton, -un, chiclaton, ciglaton, siglaton, segleton, senglaton, singlaton; Spanish ciclaton; Provençal sosclato (Diez); Middle High German ciclât, ziglât, siglât, siklatîn]. The source of names found in most European languages in the Middle Ages, appears to have been Arabic (originally Persian) siqlatun, also siqilat, siqalat, etc.  The original Persian term, sakarlat, is the same word from which we derive Scarlet.  The primary meaning was "scarlet cloth", later "fine painted or figured cloth", "cloth of gold". Diez took ciclaton as a derivative of the Latin Cyclas-adem, a Greek kuklas,'a state robe of women with a border running around it.  Dozy, Suppl. Arab. Lex. appears to derive the Arabic from cyclas.  Du Cange also identified cyclas and ciclatum, and it is possible that the two words were, from their similarity, confused in Europe in the Middle Ages. A precious material much esteemed in the Middle Ages.  In the first quotation (1225) it refers perhaps to 'scarlet cloth'; in others it is cloth of gold or other rich material.  Perhaps, sometimes, a robe or mantle of this stuff (cf. Godefroy).   The word is obsolete by 1400, although variations still appear in English for another century.]" [OED2] "1Cyclas -adis feminine. (kuklas) a female robe of state, having a border of purple or gold embroidery: Propertius, Juvenal. 2Cyclas feminine (namely Island) generally used in the plural Cyclades, -um, a group of islands in the Aegean Sea." [Cassell's Latin] "Cyclas1 ~adis (~ados) A female's light outer garment having a decorated border. Cyclas2 ~adis (~ados) One of the Cyclades, the islands in the Aegean surrounding Delos (usually plural)." [OLD] "Kuklas - encircling, as in the Cyclades, and also a woman's garment with a circling decoration." [Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon] It would appear that none of these have anything to do with the Middle Ages, and certainly not a "sideless surcote" of any sort. Looking at a wide selection of costuming material yields the following definitions: "Cyclas. masc. fem. Silken short tunic, or cloak, crom Cyclades, Greek Islands.  Worn over armour from 13th century." [Davies, 1994] "Cyclas  A short capelike cloak or tunic worn by men and women from ancient Greek and Roman times to thirteenth century England; made of a rich silk cloth called cyclas because it was made in the Cyclades.  Greeks, Romans, Franks, and Goths wore the garment.  At the coronation of the English Henry III in the 13th century, the guest "citizens of London wore the cyclas over vestements of silk."  In the same period, knights wore the cyclas over their armor as a surcoat." [n.b. the illustration shown is of a short, loose garment edged at the collar and cuffs in fur]   [Wilcox, 1969] [Not referred to in Boucher, 1966] Under "Spain", two women and a man are depicted and described as wearing a "cyclas".  One woman and a man are in pellots (edged in a border), tunics and copes (edged in a border).  These are described as "cyclas and loba".   In the next picture, a woman is described as having a cyclas, two women are depicted - one argueably wearing a sideless surcote with attached sleeves the same material as the surcoat, the other in a fitted bodice. [Racinet, 1988] "Cyclas, or sleeveless tunic" shown as a military garment and there is a vague distinction between it and the sideless gown. [Hill & Bucknell, 1967] "Men's dress. Tunics; cyclas or cyclaton: sleeves tapering to wrist; use of parti-color; dagged edges; fur linings." [two illustrations showing sleeveless tabard over armor] [Davenport, 1948.] "Cyclas (ciclatoun, syglaton, gardcorp, surcote).  Matthew of Paris relates that at the wedding of Henry III, in 1236, many... dressed in garments for which he uses the word "cycladibus," worked with gold, over vestments of silk.  This garment was usually made of very rich material (especially when it came into fashion) manufactured in the Cyclades, and the name Cyclas is attributed to this source." [illustrations show sideless surcotes]. "an over-robe without sleeves -- the cyclas-- shaped like that of the men..." [Norris, 1927] Clearly, somewhere between the definition used in 1860, "a tightly fitting upper body garment..." and 1927 the meaning has changed completely, possibly from Matthew of Paris's misunderstanding of the term (as suggested by the OED definition), or perhaps Matthew of Paris was misunderstood. I don't have a copy of Matthew of Paris at home, so I haven't started checking that link yet. I do find it suggestive that the term is not used in Bouchet, Kohler, or my Middle English Dictionary. Of course, the easy thing to do at this point would be to say "well, it's Norris, and this is another case where he's screwed things up again" and that might well be. But until I can verify his initial source, I'd rather not. There may still be other factors at play here. In any case, I'm fairly certain the term has nothing to do with the Cyclades, but rather from the encircling nature of the decoration, and that the older connecting it to the fabric (as ascribed to Matthew of Paris) is erroneous. However, since that is not how it is being used today, we can set that aside. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 00:03:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21209 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:03:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20918; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27112 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:16:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1304.mail.yahoo.com (web1304.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27104 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991018053047.995.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.163.180.161] by web1304.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:30:47 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:30:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: H-COST: art vs. accuracy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jonna Hayden --- Danielle Nunn wrote: . He had seen the > >movie Dangerous Beauty and was asking me why the > courtesan's > >dresses exposed the legs in a majority of the > scenes. ? > > The exposed leg thing is actually a take off of some > 16th century woodcuts This is from Vecellio's Renaissance Costume book, and indeed, it is a flip up to show the excessive height of the Courtesan's chopines and their underwear. More often than not the flip up part is reproduced without the regular view and presented as "haute courtesan." Jonna ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 04:13:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17938 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04329; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12284 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:25:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11891 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06392.; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:30:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:23:40 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:23:28 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #706 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id DAA12141 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I checked the O.E.D. and its definitions of the word "wench" boil down to 3 basic meanings:- 1. A girl or young woman (In "The Mill on the Floss", Maggie Tulliver's father refers to her as "the little wench") 2. A lower class or rustic young woman 3. A woman of easy virtue, a mistress >>> - -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows My understanding of the word wench is that originally it meant lower class young woman and only later came to mean 'available' lower class young woman. So many of our young female participants call themselves wench without meaning anything their mothers wouldn't approve of. Wench a word our customers know, so they delight in calling all our female ale stand servers by that name. I even get called wench, at age 50, when they aren't calling me milady, the only other word they know for woman. >> Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 08:53:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18133 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21270; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09294 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:04:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09273 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:04:16 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DJA0v8_Af (4406) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.36aa41a1.253c82b5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:03:33 EDT Subject: H-COST: bodice lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com I've been lurking for a while now and since the topic of lacing has come up, thought I'd ask my curiosity question: It's my understanding that a corset was worn over the chemise and under the bodice of Elizabethan costumes of all but peasant level. Is this accurate? I've seen many posts about gap between the laces--both front and back--and am wondering how one keeps the corset from showing between the laces. All my bodices lace tightly closed over my corset. Are there alternatives? I'm also interested in making a front lace bodice with a detachable stomacher so that a) I can lace into myself, b)it will give me several options for combinations (peasant, merchant class, etc). Any thoughts and/or tips would be appreciated. Thanks! Dani G _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 09:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18201 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27047; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16820 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:42:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from yucc.yorku.ca (ioana@yucc.yorku.ca [130.63.82.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16811 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ioana@localhost) by yucc.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16150 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:45:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ioana Timariu Hello! Thought some of you might appreciate this: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:15:17 -0700 From: "Faint, Kylie" Reply-To: med-dance@europe.std.com To: med-dance@world.std.com Subject: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc X-33208-Poster: "Faint, Kylie" Hi list, An "International Gallery" in my neighbourhood is closing down, and they have some *awesome* folkloric outfits for sale, which were part of a travelling exhibition they did in the US & Canada - these are museum quality costumes! I've been wracking my brain trying to think who might appreciate these, to little avail, so I'm just throwing the info out there, in case anyone's interested. The costume I looked at (they are all bagged up) was 13 pieces, for a particular village in Turkey. It had everything from underwear (very cute bloomer type undies!), tunic, apron, vest, jacket, shawls, headpiece & jewelry, even a set of kashiklar (dancing spoons)! The owner phoned me up today, and said that he might be able to swing me a special deal, since he knows I'm genuinely interested in the stuff. I am, but I'm wondering what I would do with a collection of authentic folk costumes :) I don't know where all the costumes are from, as I only looked at one. The shop has garments from Syria, Morroco, Egypt, Afghanistan etc also. I guess thats all, just had to pass this info on to someone!! Kylie KFaint@Sempra.com -- X-To-Get-Help-File: re list & assoc. info (graphics, lyrics, digests, etc), email dancers-archive@world.std.com w/ SUBJECT: 'help med-dance'. Body ignored. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 09:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18205 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:35:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27595; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:48:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18144 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18133 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:47:07 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23993 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:47:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05189 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:47:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:47:05 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: rare glove article Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com If anyone is interested in rare articles about gloves from Elizabeth's I time this Threads issue has one! I already own this copy and love the photos in it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=183258162 Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 09:57:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18252 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01638; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23550 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:08:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23539; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910181508.JAA23539@net.indra.com> From: melanies@skylightopera.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: melanies@skylightopera.com Regarding the exegesis of the term "cyclas," I am wondering if there are any references to this word in texts from the period(s) in which these garments (whatever shape they took) were worn. How did we, or Planche, for that matter, come to use this word? Surely there must be a source, though it's certainly possible that the source is in error. A-hunting we will go... Melanie Schuessler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 10:05:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18283 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03204; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26016 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:18:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26002 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.56]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22792 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:16:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:16:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199910181516.IAA22792@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: rare glove article Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:47 AM 10/18/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >If anyone is interested in rare articles about gloves from Elizabeth's I >time this Threads issue has one! I don't recall that this article is about gloves from Elizabeth's time, but rather, it's about how to pattern and make gloves. One of the illustrations shows a drop dead gorgeous pair of white leather gloves with lavender insets and crystal and freshwater pearl beads, in an Elizabethanish style, but the article is not specifically about historical gloves. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18413 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22722; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24279 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:04:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24269 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18979 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:04:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp204-74.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.74]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02367 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:04:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003e01bf198a$c1934a60$4accf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:03:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF199B.6C11E2C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF199B.6C11E2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A question from me: what would a well-to-do Indian (and I mean the Asian = sub-continent) traveller to 1515 Europe wear? It's just before Moghul = rule and I suppose he would have been Hindu. Would he, f.i., aquire = western type clothes on the long and slow way west and combine these = with some of his native dress, or would he be conservative, or, on the = other hand, completely do away with his things and go Habsburg/late = burgundian/landsknecht (he is not a military person, though). Are there any websites you people know, where I can go to find out? Thanks in advance, Henk tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF199B.6C11E2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 
A question from me: what would a = well-to-do Indian=20 (and I mean the Asian sub-continent) traveller to 1515 Europe wear? It's = just=20 before Moghul rule and I suppose he would have been Hindu. Would he, = f.i.,=20 aquire western type clothes on the long and slow way west and combine = these with=20 some of his native dress, or would he be conservative, or, on the other = hand,=20 completely do away with his things and go Habsburg/late = burgundian/landsknecht=20 (he is not a military person, though).
 
Are there any websites you people know, = where I can=20 go to find out?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Henk
 
tScapreel
Medieval Advisors
Dordrecht, = Netherlands
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF199B.6C11E2C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18416 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:30:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21944; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23063 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:59:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23043 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:59:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16095 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:23:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA30892 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:23:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:23:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Terminology (was: Pourpoints & Houppelands) In-Reply-To: <380AAB80.DCAA5900@utulsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Marc Carlson wrote: > Earlier this weekend, Robin Netherton and I were discussing the > seemingly unstructured nature of modern usage of historical terms, and > it appeared that her use of the term "arbitrary" hit a negative cord > with me. We appear to agree on the essentials, that because of the > difficulties of the modern usage, it's important that we try to get to > examine and share the meanings, while focusing on the realities of > modern usage (if I have misunderstood this, I hope that she will > correct me). I think that's about right! > As an example of a term where the modern definition has been badly > confused by obscure interpretation, we can look at the word "Cyclas". OH, yes. Thanks for the in-depth sourcehunt, Marc! I think of "cyclas" every time the terminology issue comes up. The first time I ever took notice of the term "cyclas" was when I came across it in "Fashion in History," by Marybelle Bigelow (second edition c. 1979; I don't know when the first edition came out). This happened to be the textbook in my college history-of-fashion class, about 1980. It was the only class I ever took from my university's home ec school, which is large and has a good reputation. Alas, it became obvious from almost the first day of class that (1) the textbook, and apparently the class, were geared to aspiring modern fashion designers, and (2) neither the author of the book nor my own professor knew much about the Middle Ages/Renaissance, but they were obligated to cover those periods in a survey course. The professor taught from the book, and the book's section on medieval is an abomination. I cannot begin to list the misrepresentations and misappropriations in the four medieval/renaissance chapters (one of which is titled "Dark Ages and Before"). Of course the errors are randomly mixed in with some solid information, very few "facts" are cited to specific sources, and virtually all the sources listed are modern. Bigelow defines cyclas as a "floor-length surcoat that featured deep armholes (female), 12th-14th centuries" and shows a picture of one of the statues of a French queen at the Palais de Justice -- the classic sideless surcote with fur front and edging and buttons down the middle. Bigelow also interprets the statue's crown as a "coronet of fresh leaves" (huh?) and describes the sleeved body garment (showing from beneath the sideless surcote) as a "sorquenie," a "snug, buttocks-length garment with very tight sleeves." On the next page is a drawing (most of the book is drawings, with some photos of real art) of this hip-length sorquenie worn OVER a "floor-length chainse" (chemise). I can't even begin to figure out what source was misinterpreted to produce that image. If you have a strong stomach, check the book out. Note the definition of "a grandes assiettes" as a noun meaning the "full-skirted peplum" hanging from the waist of the pourpoint and (later) the 16th-century doublet. Check out the illustration of a steeple hennin with a big fluffy bow, complete with ribbon, tied onto the tip. You'll find out that a supercotehardie is a shorter version of the cotehardie. You'll see James Laver's (modern) slam at the farthingale recast as being a comment from "wits of the era." I'm can only hope the book is better in its later chapters -- I'm not an expert in those eras, and I knew even less when I took this course 20 years ago, so I can't judge the quality of the rest of the book. I suspect that the author was probably a specialist in 18th or 19th-century dress, or maybe 20th-century fashion illustration, and that she was put in the awkward position of writing a textbook that covered everything from Mesopotamia to modern. She most likely cobbled together the chapters that were outside her area from a few secondary sources and little real personal knowledge. And I'm sure this was a well-meaning effort -- probably the best she could do given the sources she had access to, in the time available to her. This is too common an occurrence. I have a whole shelf of books like this. I collect them, because I frequently get inquiries from people whose ONLY exposure to historic dress research has been some textbook like this, in a class like the one I took. I'm keenly aware that many of my readers/listeners come to my material with this kind of background, and I have to anticipate it -- and I have to understand what they're saying when they ask me questions based on what they learned (in all good faith) from these sources. Which brings me back to terminology. This book, like some others on my "notorious sources" shelf, presents hundreds of terms (with a nice glossary at the end). Words I've never heard of are boldfaced and set forth without comment as THE name for various garments. People who read these books, and don't already have some background in costume history, have no reason to suspect these definitions, and no reason to consider that these particular terms weren't even standard at the time, much less now. So the whole terminology issue that concerns us so deeply is invisible to most people outside the circles of in-depth costume research. To an extent, that's a problem with the specialized language in many fields, from economics to theology. Maddening? Yes. Can we do anything about it? Within the field, yes -- Marc demonstrates that. But in dealing with people who aren't doing costume research themselves -- like the art historians and literature scholars I often speak to -- there's less we can do. I'm probably the only member of my costume history class to have noticed any problem with the medieval terminology in that book, which means the other students (and the ones who took the class in later years) are still probably relying on the half-remembered information they picked up from that one exposure. And library shelves are full of books like Bigelow, which (because they set everything out so clearly and precisely) are wonderfully attractive to the person looking for basic information on medieval clothing. Which is one reason I try now to use generic modern terms when I'm making modern observations, and reserve the specific historic terms for when I'm citing specific historic sources. I try to name multiple terms when I know them, and at the start of every paper, I define the basic terms I'm going to use. If I can raise a little awareness that these matters are NOT all neat and tidy, then perhaps I've helped. And -- back to the post that started this whole thread. The woman who originally posted asked whether a garment was a houppelande or a haincelin. Haincelin? I hadn't heard that one -- but Biglow has it here, as "[French]: short houppelande (male), Renaissance" and "an outer wrap worn by young Renaissance dandies" with a variety of sleeves. The picture she reproduces is Italian. OK, the term is out there somewhere. I have no idea where she got it, and I wouldn't trust her definition as far as I can throw the book. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18420 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:31:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29956; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03974 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:44:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f311.hotmail.com [207.82.251.224]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA03962 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 33372 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 1999 17:43:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19991018174350.33371.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:43:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:43:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >Check out the 2 part Little Doritt....with Derek Jacobe & Alec >Guiness. >All the clothes were actually made by hand. It took 2 years. Tell me more! Tell me more! Where, when, and the story! Please, please (whimper, whimper!) Karie/Allessandre ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18429 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00542; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04637 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:46:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04572 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:46:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Pandoorah@aol.com Received: from Pandoorah@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QTR0o2L3P (4401) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3749bef5.253cb6d5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:45:57 EDT Subject: H-COST: Courtesans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com In a message dated 10/15/99 5:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, benrumson@worldnet.att.net writes: > However, most of the art presented is "speculative" in that > a lot of it you probably already have in costume books, and the author > is making reasoned assumptions based on history that some of the women > depicted were courtesans. I guess respectable women didn't normally get > painted in their underwear (shocking, I know ;-0). I promise, there is a point to this... My roommate and I are currently looking for documentation of Courtesan's clothing, so this discussion has been very interesting. It has been a two year long search (so far) and once and while we will find something... We have been collecting documentation (written, speculative, visual) from every source imaginable and storing it in a binder... But the other day my roommate called me at work, and in a very excited voice, told me she had found the perfect painting of a Courtesan... She promised to get to get it copied and bring it home. When she got home she showed me her precious copy. Now before I go any further I want to make sure and point out that my roommate is a very smart woman. And she does great research... Having followed the notes and descriptions about what courtesans wore, she assumed the painting, which did not have a label, must be a courtesan... It was however Eleanor of Toledo. My roommate was very embarrassed when I was able to identify to portrait. Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18449 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:02:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05916; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11542 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:14:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11526 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991018181427.JQEB22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:14:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:17:34 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3023090254_38999_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19991018181427.JQEB22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3023090254_38999_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have forwarded your request to Irene Joshi the South Asian Librarian at the University of Washington Library. Clothing is one of her specialties. In case you want to contact her directly her email is joshi@u.washington.edu ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 10:03 AM Hi all, A question from me: what would a well-to-do Indian (and I mean the Asian sub-continent) traveller to 1515 Europe wear? It's just before Moghul rule and I suppose he would have been Hindu. Would he, f.i., aquire western type clothes on the long and slow way west and combine these with some of his native dress, or would he be conservative, or, on the other hand, completely do away with his things and go Habsburg/late burgundian/landsknecht (he is not a military person, though). Are there any websites you people know, where I can go to find out? Thanks in advance, Henk tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands --MS_Mac_OE_3023090254_38999_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 I have forwarded your request to Irene Joshi the South A= sian Librarian at the University of Washington Library. Clothing is one of = her specialties. In case you want to contact her directly her email is
joshi@u.washington.edu

~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

----------
From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" <scapreel@tip.nl>
To: "H-Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: H-COST: indian traveller 1515
Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 10:03 AM


Hi all,

A question from me: what would a well-to-do Indi= an (and I mean the Asian sub-continent) traveller to 1515 Europe wear? It's = just before Moghul rule and I suppose he would have been Hindu. Would he, f.= i., aquire western type clothes on the long and slow way west and combine th= ese with some of his native dress, or would he be conservative, or, on the o= ther hand, completely do away with his things and go Habsburg/late burgundia= n/landsknecht (he is not a military person, though).

Are there any websites you people know, where I = can go to find out?

Thanks in advance,

Henk

tScapreel
Medieval Advisors
Dordrecht, Netherlands=

--MS_Mac_OE_3023090254_38999_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:35:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18478 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12156; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18785 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:46:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18762 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:46:30 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WNYa29648 (3864) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.182b2bd2.253cc4dd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:45:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:48:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, allessandre@hotmail.com writes: << >Check out the 2 part Little Doritt....with Derek Jacobe & Alec >Guiness. >All the clothes were actually made by hand. It took 2 years. Tell me more! Tell me more! Where, when, and the story! Please, please (whimper, whimper!) >> Calm....calm.... All I know is that the clothes were indeed hand made. We rented some for the miniseries Queen and they were entirely hand sewn....down to the whipped overcasting of raw seam allowances. If the hooks & eyes had been brass, I would've thought they were very well preserved originals. I believe they were exhibited at the V&A after production. The film[s] looks perfect. Every walk of life is represented. James Acheson only asks that leads & featured extras have all stitching & sewing that shows be done by hand....usually just above the hip. This is because a buttonhole on the big screen may end up 3 feet long. Sandy Powell was not quite as picky. We could do machine buttonholes but had to do a quick overwhipped so the stitching didn't look so perfect, machinelike & even. She had me take some ruffles off some chemise sleeves worn by a tavern wench/victim in "Interview" because the edges were machine scalloped. It looked too neat. But I've seen some real, early 19th century lappets & engagentes with hand scalloping that looked so perfect it was machinelike. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:37:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18482 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12364; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19238 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:48:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19225 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:52:37 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: re: Pourpoints & Houppelandes (Haincelin) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:46:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bf1999$241f8780$6b037a86@phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Cin>> There's an illumination on the inside front cover of "Parades et Parures", (Boccacio, "De Cleres at Nobles Femmes", circa 1402, BNF Paris). Wish I could find it online, but the BNF is not responding right now. Here's a verbal description: Cin>>The Seducer: Knee-length houppeland, body portion black, assiettes bright pink, turning into bag sleeves? w/ yellow-green dagging; lined w/ brown fur; red-orange pointy toed boots. Cin>> Demoiselle studying: Yellow (deep gold) houppeland, w/ safety orange lining visible inside dagged sleeve, matching orange belt, fitted sleeves of a deep purple cotte visible. Cin>> Is his pink & black garment truly a houppeland even in this different cut? >> Is it a haincelin? Robin>What's a haincelin? :-) I don't remember hearing that term before. Let me "read" you the text that I'm having trouble with: Excerpted from _Parades et Parures_, Dr. Odile Blanc, ISBN, 2.07.073725.X translated by Cynthia Barnes, 1999 _Parades & Finery_, p36, Ch. 1 "Surfaces" - discussing mens' wear, e.g. the garment of the seducer described above "The long garment (houppelande), very expansive at the turn of the 15th c., is the subject of the same passion as the jack [jaque] over which it was often worn. Additionally, it was adopted by women as much as by men, and was particularly directed toward [indique pour] those persons for whom the dignity of their social position or simply their age forbade the wearing of short or closely fitted garments. Here then, is testimony to the to the diversity of available clothing. More rare, this garment was worn without a belt, but some other element was added to break the uniformity: hood [] with a long, tied horn [chaperon a cornette], or a heavily worked sleeve. Finally, the length mattered less than it previously had; and while these garments did get quite long, there were some short houppelands (haincelins)". Translator's notes: 1. Round parens, ( ), denote words that were in parens in the original text. 2. Words in square parens, [], denote words, regretfully w/o proper French accents, from Dr. Blanc's original text; they follow the English translation. 3. There is no glossary in the back of this book. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18486 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:39:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13051; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20333 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:53:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20323 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:53:43 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6YSAsnCHa_ (3864) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.64e30756.253cc692@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:53:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Courtesans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:48:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Pandoorah@aol.com writes: << It was however Eleanor of Toledo. >> Well...who knows what she did week ends! Anyway, that painting [you no doubt already know] of courtesans in a garden has them dress beautifully, like any other wealthy lady. Why should they have a "special" look? Were one to design, say, Bianca from Much Ado, one would maybe show more skin and some bright colors & flash to attract attention. But, come to think of it, these is not unusual aspects of court dress. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:40:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18492 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13287; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20625 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20615 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:54:56 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12816 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23965 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:54 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Courtesans In-Reply-To: <0.3749bef5.253cb6d5@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com When we did Dangerous Liasons at Zach Scott each actor was charged with the task of researching their character and report to the director what they found. We did an exercize based on what we found. The courtesan found most of her stuff from the original book of letters that the play was based on. Specifically from Valmont's letters. She found other sources through writing letters (in french) to the publisher of the play we were using. Or rather fromt he sources that publisher sent her. All I can tell you is that she played her character as much to the letter of what she found. One of the interesteing things she found was that cross dressing for females was exclusive to the courtesans. Sorry I could not be much more help than that. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 14:20:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18518 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17635; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26808 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:21:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26796 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:21:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Pandoorah@aol.com Received: from Pandoorah@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LTBa02563 (4401) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b18f8e76.253ccd1f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:21:03 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com Just because nobody has said any of these... The Buccaneers (the BBC production) North and South (the mini-series... Yes, I know, TV) Old, Period Hollywood Movies - Diane, The Seahawks and Zorro Death on the Nile Gaslight Lady Jane Anne of a Thousand Days I know some have more problems then others... But they are great to sit and watch while trying to be inspired for a new costume. Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 14:20:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18521 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16483; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25377 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25263 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19695 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04948 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Courtesans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I did read an article recently on Courtesans in Renaissance Florence (15th century), specifically their encounters with the legal system. The article contained a list of "violations" for which the courtesans were arrested. Top of the list was "snatching men's hats off their heads", and right below that was "dressing like a man." If anyone's interested, I can give them the bibliographic info for it. Fascinating article. Drea On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 ches@io.com wrote: > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > When we did Dangerous Liasons at Zach Scott each actor was charged > with the task of researching their character and report to the director > what they found. We did an exercize based on what we found. > > The courtesan found most of her stuff from the original book of letters > that the play was based on. Specifically from Valmont's letters. She found > other sources through writing letters (in french) to the publisher of the > play we were using. Or rather fromt he sources that publisher sent her. > > All I can tell you is that she played her character as much to the letter > of what she found. One of the interesteing things she found was that cross > dressing for females was exclusive to the courtesans. Sorry I could not be > much more help than that. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 14:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18524 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:20:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18197; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27585 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:24:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27573 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20329 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:33:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA32437 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:34:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:34:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: re: Pourpoints & Houppelandes (Haincelin) In-Reply-To: <000201bf1999$241f8780$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I normally snip for space, but I'll quote Cynthia's description of an illumination and her translation of a costume analysis below. And I'll ask -- um, what was the question again? If the question is, was a short full gown on a c. 1400 man a houppelande or a haincelin, I'd probably use houppelande because I'm an English speaker, and because this is the term more generally used today by English-speaking costume researchers as an umbrella term for a full gown of this period. The common definition of houppelande, at least as I hear/see the term used, usually assumes a full overgown cut in single pieces from shoulder to hem, probably with a circular or near-circular general form to the entire garment (there are certainly many ways to achieve this, and the details of cut obviously varied over time and place), often belted at the waist but sometimes hanging loose, and having full sleeves, either open or bag-style. I'd personally resist using the term "houppelande" for a gown with fitted body or sleeves, or for anything with a waistline seam, because I see fullness and shoulder-to-hem cut as key elements of the definition. Someone else might have a different definition. (I haven't seen the picture, so I'm assuming it meets this definition.) If the question is, what would a person of that time call it, I would think that would depend on where and when he was. I gather "haincelin" is a French term? As I mentioned earlier, I hadn't heard the term till this week, and now I found it in another book this morning (see my Terminology post). That book is unreliable, but the definition of "short houppelande" matches the one you quote, which could simply mean both authors are quoting the same source, or one is quoting the other. I don't know of any historic sources for the word, but I don't read much medieval French. I have no idea if the word was common in the period or if some later researcher popularized it. When in doubt, I always use the word "gown." For men or women. It's the most generic term I've seen either now or in the period. --Robin > Cin>> There's an illumination on the inside front cover of "Parades et > Parures", (Boccacio, "De Cleres at Nobles Femmes", circa 1402, BNF Paris). > Wish I could find it online, but the BNF is not responding right now. Here's > a verbal description: > Cin>>The Seducer: Knee-length houppeland, body portion black, assiettes > bright pink, turning into bag sleeves? w/ yellow-green dagging; lined w/ > brown fur; red-orange pointy toed boots. > Cin>> Demoiselle studying: Yellow (deep gold) houppeland, w/ safety orange > lining visible inside dagged sleeve, matching orange belt, fitted sleeves of > a deep purple cotte visible. > Cin>> Is his pink & black garment truly a houppeland even in this different > cut? > >> Is it a haincelin? > Excerpted from _Parades et Parures_, Dr. Odile Blanc, ISBN, 2.07.073725.X > translated by Cynthia Barnes, 1999 > > _Parades & Finery_, p36, Ch. 1 "Surfaces" - discussing mens' wear, e.g. the > garment of the seducer described above > > "The long garment (houppelande), very expansive at the turn of the 15th c., > is the subject of the same passion as the jack [jaque] over which it was > often worn. Additionally, it was adopted by women as much as by men, and > was particularly directed toward [indique pour] those persons for whom the > dignity of their social position or simply their age forbade the wearing of > short or closely fitted garments. Here then, is testimony to the to the > diversity of available clothing. More rare, this garment was worn without a > belt, but some other element was added to break the uniformity: hood [] with > a long, tied horn [chaperon a cornette], or a heavily worked sleeve. > Finally, the length mattered less than it previously had; and while these > garments did get quite long, there were some short houppelands > (haincelins)". > > Translator's notes: > 1. Round parens, ( ), denote words that were in parens in the original text. > 2. Words in square parens, [], denote words, regretfully w/o proper French > accents, from Dr. Blanc's original text; they follow the English > translation. > 3. There is no glossary in the back of this book. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 14:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18546 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21872; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02706 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:46:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02685 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:46:13 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VBDa23354 (4257) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f5984445.253cd2e0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:45:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA02688 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 3:23:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Pandoorah@aol.com writes: << North and South (the mini-series... Yes, I know, TV) >> YIKES! [here I go again!] Now stop looking at Patrick Swazey and look at the clothes! There seems to be a rule: Older married women: buttoned up to the neck Younger married women: some décolletage Unmarried women: Plunging décolletage This in any situation at any time of day. There's a scene where they pick cotton in hoops and low necklines I believe. For even funnier costumes check out the minisearies they did by the same guy that's Revolutionary War....with Don Johnson. I forget the name. Hysterical! [don't miss the Victorian furniture in the background while you're at it] The clothes in Queen are pretty good.....even if I did work on it myself :-) <> All yummy! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 14:41:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18556 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23524; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04896 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from po2.bbn.com (PO2.BBN.COM [192.1.50.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04888 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apoppers_3 (h132-197-203-137.gte.com [132.197.203.137] (may be forged)) by po2.bbn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA24021 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991018155437.009347e0@POP.SYS.GTEI.NET> X-Sender: apoppers@POP.SYS.GTEI.NET X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:54:37 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Asia Poppers Subject: H-COST: Wide Soutache Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Asia Poppers Hi All, At my favorite little discount fabric store, I found some soutache braid much wider than the Wright's stuff that's sold in the little packages. It's about 3/16" wide, and looks like it's made by winding the glossy fiber (rayon, probably) over two *pairs* of cords, with the cords of each pair laid side-by-side, to make a wider but fairly flat soutache. My favorite little discount fabric store has prices that can't be beat, because the folks who run it buy remnants and bolt ends and odd lots. Therefore they have this stuff only in a very few colors, and once it's gone, I'll probably never see it again. That's the problem. I want it in other colors. Lots of it, where I know I can get it again reliably. Has anyone on the list ever seen this stuff? Is it just jumbo soutache or does it go by some other name? And does anyone know where to get it on a range of colors, or even just black? Thanks in advance for any info, Asia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 15:06:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18598 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27649; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10638 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:17:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10592 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJT00D1LEYWB3@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:16:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:26:41 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) In-reply-to: <199910181850.MAA19616@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991018152641.007abd30@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >Regarding the exegesis of the term "cyclas," I am wondering if >there are any references to this word in texts from the period(s) in >which these garments (whatever shape they took) were worn. How >did we, or Planche, for that matter, come to use this word? Surely >there must be a source, though it's certainly possible that the >source is in error. Here we are. Matthew of Paris, in describing the wedding and coronation of Eleanor to Henry III in 1236 "...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus auro textus circumdati, ..." Well, hmm. After checking with my Latin resources, this looks like *either* "silken ornate garments, encircled (in the manner of a cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate garments, encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). with golden made stuff". I'm thinking the former. That means that unless better information turns up, it *could* be that Norris screwed it up. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 15:44:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18614 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01521; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16362 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:40:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16356 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:40:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OEDa01795 (3937) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f7c6bd9b.253cdfab@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:40:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Courtesans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/99 7:18:09 PM !!!First Boot!!!, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << If anyone's interested, I can give them the bibliographic info for it. Fascinating article. Drea >> Drea, I would love to get the biblio on it _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 15:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18623 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05432; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21653 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:02:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21630 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:02:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.176.101]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15760 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:04:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199910182104.PAA15760@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 18 Oct 99 15:02:42 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 18 Oct 99 15:02:31 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:02:24 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices Priority: normal In-reply-to: <38081C78.E2C06953@worldnet.att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > > There are examples of side laced German Renn gowns, though the lacing was > > in lieu of, not in addition to front lacing. > > Ditto on the Italians. Actually, I've found a painting using both front and side lacing. It's Cosimo Tura's "Spring" from c. 1460. You can find it at the Web Gallery Search: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.html Just search for Tura. This is the same gown that Hunniset uses in her book. It clearly shows both side and front laces. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18713 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:32:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11673; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01620 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:45:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01606 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:45:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VPKa29634 (3973) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.740eda49.253ceee0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:45:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com That was "Restoration". I was impressed by the costuming. To think that Sam Neill could actually wear petticoat breeches & a waist-length wig and NOT look silly.... I think my favorite is "Dangerous Liaisons" wiht "Wings of the Dove" second. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18719 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12916; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03918 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:54:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03905 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:54:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TLWa17081 (3973) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.1c257f51.253cf0f7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:53:59 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I think Sandy Powell tends to go for the fantastical, or at least exaggerated, over the accurate (Don't get me started on "Rob Roy"...-- the English costumes were fine, but the Scottish costumes -- ouch!). Certainly her costumes for "Orlando" were exaggerated, as were those for "Interview". "Wings of the Dove" was gorgeous, however. I'm never sure what she's trying to accomplish in her costuming. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:42:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18723 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:42:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13144; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02715 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:50:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02619 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA04058 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:48:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:48:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199910182148.OAA04058@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Zefferelli's Romeo and Juliet. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:54:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18736 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15444; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07296 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:08:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07287 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:08:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6UGWa01793 (3973) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3d0bb3a6.253cf437@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:07:51 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recent posts or check this out To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have a postcard of an early 16th century painting (Italian, I think, but I can check) that shows a lady from the back view. Her bodice is laced at the side. I will check the reference at home. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18740 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15811; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08028 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08009 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6IRJa23354 (4462) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.6d049aaf.253cf4d1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:10:25 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA08013 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 5:56:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << I think Sandy Powell tends to go for the fantastical, or at least exaggerated, over the accurate (Don't get me started on "Rob Roy"...-- the English costumes were fine, but the Scottish costumes -- ouch!). Certainly her costumes for "Orlando" were exaggerated, as were those for "Interview". "Wings of the Dove" was gorgeous, however. I'm never sure what she's trying to accomplish in her costuming. >> Y'know she also did Michael Collins. Exaggerated? In Vampire it's clear that living, breathing people are usually depicted in natural linens, rusts, yellows, oranges....warm colors. Vampires are generally in purples, strange greens, deep blues and sparkle or glitter unnaturally. Claudia wears a pink dress with clunky padded appliqué at the hem.....an artificial costume of deception in the "wrong" color.... for when she deceives & kills Lestat. And Wings of the Dove is not as exaggerated as you might think. Her choices are for the then very popular avant garde very wealthy of the day. Besides, when else are you gonna get to put someone in Pioret hostess pajamas? Orlando is very styalized....but of course it is....look at what it's about. Seems clear to me. Have you seen Velvet Gold Mine? [Not a good film, alas] What did you think? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:26:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18844 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:26:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28172; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25644 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25639 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:48 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JNOa21033 (4534) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.afbd02da.253d05df@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:23:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com What about "Jefferson In Paris" (awful flick, but I loved the costumes when I was watching it) No idea if they were more than superfically period. To reiterate my faves from those previously offfered up Restoration Romeo & Juliet (Zefferelli) Elizabeth (transformation at the end was captivating) & Shakespeare in Love (I know they're not perfect, but oh that overcloak worn by Lord Wessex(?) before he attacks young Will in the theater! delicious!) Most abominable Anything seen in Bonanza (what kind of corsets WERE those anyway? the "authentic" 1950's pointy chested kind?) +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:28:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18847 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26710; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24231 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:15:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24224 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:15:53 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FXEa29648 (4534) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.afbd02d6.253d0406@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:15:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA24225 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 3:12:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << In Vampire it's clear that living, breathing people are usually depicted in natural linens, rusts, yellows, oranges....warm colors. Vampires are generally in purples, strange greens, deep blues and sparkle or glitter unnaturally. Claudia wears a pink dress with clunky padded appliqué at the hem.....an artificial costume of deception in the "wrong" color.... for when she deceives & kills Lestat. >> This is my favorite feature of being a costumer. Being able to paint the actors like scenery, if you will, with color schemes and fabrics that tell us about them, or mislead us a bit, as in the case of the young and tragically undead Claudia. There is so much artistic joy in the creation of a "look". I think Sandy Powell is a goddess to worship, but that's just mnsho! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both wind and tide." King Henry VI, Part III, IV, iii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:28:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18851 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01458; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29690 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:42:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29681 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:42:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow ([24.5.81.24]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991018234227.BBPT18396.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@shadow> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:42:27 -0700 Message-ID: <380BDA4D.26AC@home.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:41:17 -0700 From: Freya Organization: House Wolfholme X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing References: <0.36aa41a1.253c82b5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Freya DRGurley@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com > > I've been lurking for a while now and since the topic of lacing has come up, > thought I'd ask my curiosity question: > > It's my understanding that a corset was worn over the chemise and under the > bodice of Elizabethan costumes of all but peasant level. Is this accurate? > I've seen many posts about gap between the laces--both front and back--and am > wondering how one keeps the corset from showing between the laces. > > All my bodices lace tightly closed over my corset. Are there alternatives? > > I'm also interested in making a front lace bodice with a detachable stomacher > so that a) I can lace into myself, b)it will give me several options for > combinations (peasant, merchant class, etc). Any thoughts and/or tips would > be appreciated. > > Thanks! > Dani G De-Lurking to add: I've been seeing a number of lacing styles for bodices at my local renfair which is set in 1526. Most of the "Nobles" bodices lace only in the back. Lately, I have been seeing more with two panels that are laced at the sides Some with separate shoulder straps that can be laced to the bodice. The "Peasant/Wench" bodices are laced in the front with or without boning with varying amounts of heavage displayed. Is there documentation for the front peasant lacing? What are your thoughts on the two panel method? If the bodicee is boned and no corset is used is it alright to let the boning channels (stiching) show on the outside? I have some light weight bones that are too flexible, will it cause problems if I put 2 bones in each channel? Answers to any or all of my questions eagerly accepted. Let me know if my descriptions were not clear enough. Thanks -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:29:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18855 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17679; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10498 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:22:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10484 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.68.164]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJT0063ZKPSOH@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:14:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: Re: H-COST: Period Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: "KaraleeLarsenPugmire" Message-id: <380B1D22.617CD4DB@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Francesca wrote: > May I turn the direction of your critism to Period Patterns? Ok, but it could be dangerous. ;-) > I am particularly intersted in the late style tunics (1200's) in Pattern #16. > I am really a novice at period cutting styles. I've looked at the web sites > and books that show line drawins of archeological finds, I've even tried > using these cutting styles in clothes for my daughter's barbies. Though the > clothes look really good on the dolls, I'm a little intimidated about trying > to cut into a peice of fabric that has cost more than I had a right to spend. > (We are at the struggling, but have to make clothes and armor stage.) You're much, much, much better off doing the cutting in a period style. It's easier. It will look better. It will fit better. You'll be less frustrated. It will be more authentic. Everyone will be happy. :-) If you are afraid to jump right in with your expensive fabric, do a mock up of the period pattern in el cheapo fabric (hey, look I speak Spanish!). You can check your pattern and make adjustments before cutting your expensive yardage. Also, the period method is MUCH more conservative of fabric. (At 6'1", I can make a floor length tunic with 4 yards of 45" fabric with the period cut.) > The other day when I was looking at a suggested web site I saw this pattern > by Period Patterns and wondered what you all think of them. They are too > expensive for me to just buy one and see. Is it a good step from the > Simplicity type pattern toward blindly cutting into a peice of $10 a yard > fabric and knowing it's going to look good and that I won't be giving it > away a year later because I hate the way it fits and the fact that it's > really not that period? This was the first pattern that I used. I used it once, swore at it, crumpled it up and have never used it again. Do yourself a favor and don't waste your money on it. According to the size chart on the back, my chest size is a Medium, and my height is an XXL. The cut is totally inauthentic and very confusing. It is also very wasteful of fabric. My suggestion is that you take measurements and use the period rectilinear construction methods. Do a mock up in cheap fabric first before trying it with more expensive fabric. You can even do three steps; a mock up in cheap waste fabric, a first try in inexpensive fabric, and then try the perfected pattern with the expensive fabric. This way you will not waste any valuable fabric on your first try, you will have an inexpensive first piece of 'real garb' (which you can still use, even if it's not perfect), and you will have worked out the bugs and built your confidence before cutting into your expensive fabric. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Good luck, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:33:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18865 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02463; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00779 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00768 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.157] (58-119.netwurx.net [209.207.58.119]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05708 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:47:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:47:54 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: book review request Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Has anyone seen or purchased this book? The Man of Fashion: Peacock Males and Perfect Gentlemen by Colin McDowell The blurb claims that it covers ostentation in men's dress, 16th-20th century. It sounds intriguing, but I'm not ready to buy it without knowing a little more. Thanks Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:49:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18878 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:49:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04662; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03402 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:03:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03387 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16710 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901bf19c5$1d6e8fe0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc (fwd) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:01:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Got anything from Poland or Czechoslovakia? Prussia? I would be interested in these, as they are parts of my heritage. And would the price break my wallet? -----Original Message----- From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: H-COST: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc (fwd) > >-Poster: Ioana Timariu > > >Hello! Thought some of you might appreciate this: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:15:17 -0700 >From: "Faint, Kylie" >Reply-To: med-dance@europe.std.com >To: med-dance@world.std.com >Subject: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc > >X-33208-Poster: "Faint, Kylie" > >Hi list, > >An "International Gallery" in my neighbourhood is closing down, and they >have some *awesome* folkloric outfits for sale, which were part of a >travelling exhibition they did in the US & Canada - these are museum quality >costumes! > >I've been wracking my brain trying to think who might appreciate these, to >little avail, so I'm just throwing the info out there, in case anyone's >interested. > >The costume I looked at (they are all bagged up) was 13 pieces, for a >particular village in Turkey. It had everything from underwear (very cute >bloomer type undies!), tunic, apron, vest, jacket, shawls, headpiece & >jewelry, even a set of kashiklar (dancing spoons)! The owner phoned me up >today, and said that he might be able to swing me a special deal, since he >knows I'm genuinely interested in the stuff. I am, but I'm wondering what I >would do with a collection of authentic folk costumes :) I don't know where >all the costumes are from, as I only looked at one. The shop has garments >from Syria, Morroco, Egypt, Afghanistan etc also. > >I guess thats all, just had to pass this info on to someone!! > >Kylie >KFaint@Sempra.com > >-- >X-To-Get-Help-File: re list & assoc. info (graphics, lyrics, digests, etc), >email dancers-archive@world.std.com w/ SUBJECT: 'help med-dance'. Body ignored. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:57:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18902 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05836; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04668 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:11:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04661 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.157] (58-119.netwurx.net [209.207.58.119]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05741 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:11:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.afbd02da.253d05df@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:12:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com >Most abominable > >Anything seen in Bonanza (what kind of corsets WERE those anyway? the >"authentic" 1950's pointy chested kind?) Oh, but haven't you seen the authentic pointy-chested 18th-century corsets in Scaramouche?? ;) Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:00:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18912 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06238; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05160 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:14:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05147 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.157] (58-119.netwurx.net [209.207.58.119]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05745 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:14:26 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991018152641.007abd30@pop.utulsa.edu> References: <199910181850.MAA19616@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:14:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Marc Carlson >Here we are. Matthew of Paris, in describing the wedding and coronation >of Eleanor to Henry III in 1236 "...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus >auro textus circumdati, ..." Well, hmm. After checking with my Latin >resources, this looks like *either* "silken ornate garments, encircled (in >the manner of a cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate garments, >encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). with golden made stuff". I'm >thinking the former. > >That means that unless better information turns up, it *could* be that >Norris screwed it up. I tend to be somewhat skeptical of Norris, but I'm sure not everything in his books is wrong--still, best to just find the original sources, yes? So according to Matthew of Paris, we have something decorated in the manner of a cyclas (or the Cyclades, but let's go with cyclas for now, as it seems likelier to you). So at this point we know that a cyclas is decorated with golden made stuff. Where did the rest of this misinformation come from? Did some of the 20th century authors actually go for period sources and that's why the definition shifted, or were they all relying on 19th century texts and unwittingly participated in some sort of linguistic drift? We've heard about people's favorite sources. I'm interested to hear what's on everyone's "notorious sources" shelf (especially Robin's--sounds like you have a bunch!)--those books that are for the most part untrustworthy in part or as a whole. Because not everyone can be an expert in everything, I think it might be useful to have a gentle warning about those sources we should use only with extreme caution. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18924 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07711; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:27:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07083 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:27:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07073 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-135.s135.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.135]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id UAA08765 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008f01bf19c9$0887c660$263daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <0.b18f8e76.253ccd1f@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:29:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" You all, I love movies so here is part of my real list, (I tried not to repeat ones mentioned all ready). I have been compiling my list for awhile. --Somewhere in Time (it was on TV again last night), designer Jean-Pierre Dorléac. --The Great Gatsby, designer Theoni V. Aldredge. --Recent version of A Midsummer Nights Dream, designer Gabriella Pescucci. --The Great Ziegfeld (my favorite for historic and fantasy costumes), designer Adrian --Silverado, designer Kristi Zea --Recent version of Last of the Mohicans ( :) Albert Cat), designer Elsa Zamparelli --Can help but love the costumes in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, designer Hazel Pethig --Meet Me in St. Louis, designer Irene Sharaff --Lonesome Dove (yes, TV, it was too long for the big screen), designer Van Broughton Ramsey --Excalibur, designer Bob Ringwood --Forrest Gump, designer Joanna Johnston --Eve's Bayou, designer Karyn Wagner (II) --Austin Powers #I & #2, designer Deena Appel --Pleasantville, designer Judianna Makovsky --Amercian Graffiti, designer Aggie Guerard Rodgers --Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert and he had about thirteen children. The swimsuits were wonderful! --Music Man (was good for a musical), designer Dorothy Jeakins --Grease (was good for a musical), designer Albert Wolsky --Now and Then, designer Deena Appel --Cross Creek, designer Joe I. Tompkins --Night Shift (1982 version), designer Jodie Lynn Tillen --Rasputin (HBO movie) --Lust for Life (story of Van Gogh), designer Walter Plunkett --Fanny and Alexander, designer Marik Vos-Lundh --Schindler's List, designer Anna B. Sheppard --Little Women, designer Colleen Atwood --Victor, Victoria (not sure how accurate, but loved the costumes), designer Patricia Norris --Bonnie and Clyde, designer Theadora Van Runkle --The Sting, designer Edith Head --Lion Out of Africa Some movies that I love that had good costumes that provided representation of current fashion or what would become fashionable during the time: --The Philadelphia Story, designer Adrian --American Gigolo, designer Giorgio Armani (suits) --Saturday Night Fever, designer Patrizia von Brandenstein --Urban Cowboy (Boy, this was hard to admit that it was a fashion) --Xanadu (the mix of costumes, spoke of the transition in fashion at the time), designer Bobbie Mannix --Three Coins in a Fountain, designer Dorothy Jeakins --Woodstock, designer, The Crowd! --Love Story, designer Alice Manougan Martin & Pearl Somner --Annie Hall, designer Ralph Lauren & Ruth Morley --Wayne's World, (those jeans with the knees out), designer Pat Tonnema Hippie Musicals of the 1960s & 70s: --Jesus Christ Superstar (chorus), designer Yvonne Blake --Hair, designer Ann Roth --Godspell, designers Sherrie Sucher & Susan Tsu --The Breakfast Club (they are making a new one), designer Marilyn Vance-Straker --St. Elmo's Fire, designer Susan Becker My list goes on and on... I will be starting an email list soon on Movie Costumes. I am just trying to come up with an identifical name for it. I'll let you know when I get it up. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18928 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07858; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07247 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07233 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:17 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VBCa10996 (4462) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.182e0431.253d14fa@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:27:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 7:25:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MzScahlett@aol.com writes: << Anything seen in Bonanza (what kind of corsets WERE those anyway? the "authentic" 1950's pointy chested kind?) >> And the eye makeup! In all fairness to TV it must be understood that they have very little time & not as much money compared to film. [Britain has less of a problem in this respect....mainly I think due to the way they teach costuming: with a respect for what is "correct" over being a fashion designer of some kind] Extras & walk-ons often look more correct than leads because they are pulled from studio stocks....ironic, huh? I mean the Cartwrights didn't change clothes for 10 years! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:27:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18953 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:27:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09598; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09376 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:42:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09363 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:42:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ERRa07459 (4462) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.eff34eb8.253d1844@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:41:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 7:45:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jns-shadow@home.com writes: << If the bodicee is boned and no corset is used is it alright to let the boning channels (stiching) show on the outside? I have some light weight bones that are too flexible, will it cause problems if I put 2 bones in each channel? >> I would say no. The casing should not show....except maybe the ones at the edge of pieces that lace together. I would also not bone the bodice until you have proper bones....rigelene or better, steel bones. You may order them from Greenberg & Hammer 1-800-955-5135 Ask for a catalogue. In mine the 1/2" steel are .60 to.65 a piece or $3.40 to $4.10 a dozen. See....not bad. They come in 1/2" increments of length so figure out just how many of each length you need or just get the longest & cut & tip them.....but then you have to get tipping fluid. It depends on how many you need. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:30:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18963 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:30:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10028; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09871 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:44:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09866 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:44:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JBZa08128 (4462) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.47d56139.253d18dc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:44:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:28:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << -Recent version of Last of the Mohicans ( :) Albert Cat), designer Elsa Zamparelli >> She finished up after James Acheson was driven away by Michael Mann but most all the European costumes were Jame's. Elsa did Dances with Wolves which looks quite good.....too bad it's sooooo boring...zzzzzzzzzzzzz. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:34:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18967 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:34:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10683; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10476 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:48:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10466 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k599.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.199]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01573 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380BBEDA.32FD@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:44:10 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) References: <0.b18f8e76.253ccd1f@aol.com> <008f01bf19c9$0887c660$263daccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Penny Ladnier wrote: > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > You all, I love movies so here is part of my real list, (I tried not to > repeat ones mentioned all ready). I have been compiling my list for awhile. > Didn't anyone else like Kundun and 7 Years in Tibet for the costumes?? They were as authentic as possible and had real Tibetans to correct them when they weren't. It's a way of life that's lost -- it was nice to see it captured on film for a little while. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18984 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11276; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11290 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:53:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11280 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:53:25 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FXW0djala (4462) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.8f2a323d.253d1ad4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:52:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:50:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, susanf@netwiz.net writes: << Didn't anyone else like Kundun and 7 Years in Tibet for the costumes?? They were as authentic as possible and had real Tibetans to correct them when they weren't. It's a way of life that's lost -- it was nice to see it captured on film for a little while. >> I know...we're so occidental! No one's mentioned Ran or The Last Emperor _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:02:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19024 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13823; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14732 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:16:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14723 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FJT00K01SSK32@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:14:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:14:44 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) In-reply-to: <199910190028.SAA07259@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FJT00K03SSK32@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.69 References: <199910190028.SAA07259@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu > I tend to be somewhat skeptical of Norris, but I'm > sure not everything in his books is wrong--still, best > to just find the original sources, yes? To be fair, I would have checked, even if it hadn't been Norris. > So according to Matthew of Paris, we have something > decorated in the manner of a cyclas (or the Cyclades, > but let's go with cyclas for now, as it seems > likelier to you). So at this point we know that a > cyclas is decorated with golden made stuff. Or we know that these garments were decorated around, like a cyclas (i.e., "encircled" by decoration around the edges), and in this case that decoration was with golden stuff (tacky gold lame' trim or something, maybe). > Where did the rest of this misinformation come from? I don't have a clue. At least some of the "Victorian" authors had one definition, which the OED continues to support, and others had another. > Did some of the 20th century authors actually go for > period sources and that's why the definition shifted, > or were they all relying on 19th century texts and > unwittingly participated in some sort of linguistic > drift? The problem is that I believe (and this is really an opinion, since I can't back it up with clear facts) that "linguistic evolution" as a description is really only valid only for current things, not historical things. If I manage to convince enough people that their automobiles should be called "wampuses" that it takes hold, then great, that's evolution of the language. If I try to tell you that Henry Ford made it rich with his black snuggly-pop machine, and that "model T" was the name of his cat, and that anyone who tells you differently is a boob -- that's not really "evolving" the language. That's re-writing the past. If "Cyclas" was used in the Middle Ages to refer to anything other than the traditional Greek and Roman ("woman's garment edged in something"), I'm not sure we've seen it. It may have been used to refer to a tight-fitting tunic or bodice (as per the 1860 source, which I haven't found yet), but even so, that's a far cry from the men's open-armed tabard for armor, much less the sideless surcote (By the way, this is not intended as a plea for people to stop using the term to refer to sideless surcotes. It's a term learned in good faith, and we still haven't proven that it never was used in that fashion). > We've heard about people's favorite sources. I'm > interested to hear what's on everyone's "notorious > sources" shelf (especially Robin's--sounds like > you have a bunch!)--those books that are for the most > part untrustworthy in part or as a whole... It's a nice idea. OTOH, *most* works have problems, in part or in whole. The OED for example is deeply flawed by b) the fact that the vast majority of its definions were written by Victorian scholars b) many of whom missed references when something first appeared, c) or just plain didn't always know what they were talking about, but d) there is an aura of perfection about it. I'd say it's about a 98% good source, but I'm likely to be accused of being generous. If you don't mind, I actually was annotating part of a bibliography when this question came up, so I will pass along some of what I have. If you disagree with any of these, please tell me... (Boucher, Françoise.  20000 Years of Fashion. New York: Abrams, 1966) I am under the impression this is a beloved source, and it does seem pretty good. There are a few mistakes here and there in the text (mostly of typographical), but keeping that in mind it seems pretty reliable. (Davies, Stephanie.  Costume Language, a Dictionary of Dress Terms. Malvern: Cresselles Pub.Co.Ltd., 1994) The author of this work died before the final work was finished, and so I shouldn't criticize the work too badly as I have no idea what it would have been like had she lived. On the other hand, what we have has some problems, not the least of which is credibility. There are sufficient flaws in the topics I do know about, that using her for the things I don't know about makes me a bit leery. (Hill, Margot, and Peter Bucknell, Evolution of Fashion, New York Drama Book Specialists 1981, c1967) A lovely beginner's book and written to present the information, pre-digested to an audience that doesn't have time to mess with research. For that reason, the authors don't cite their material, and it's practically impossible to back track their work. If you are doing historical costumes, use the book -- if you are researching historical accuracy, use with caution. (Köhler, Karl, A History of Costume. ed. & aug. by Emma von Sichart, trans. by Alexander K. Dallas. New York : Dover Publications, 1963) A standard work among amateurs. What doesn't seem to be generally realized is that it is a reprint of a 1928 text, translated from an 1870s German original (Praktische Kostümkunde), with some stuff tossed in to make it up to date for 1928. (Norris, Herbert.  Costume and Fashion, Volume Two. Senlac to Bosworth. London: Dent, 1927) I confess to a weakness. I like Norris. His work on ecclesiastical clothing is really well done enough to make me willing to forgive some of the flaws in this more general survey -- and this is a deeply flawed work. The text is easy to digest, the pictures are pretty, and not generally innaccurate. Conversely, he's responsible for some of the worst information to be transmitted to costumers. He doesn't cite the work particularly well, or particularly throughly, and there I have heard people accuse him of making material up. I wouldn't go THAT far, but I would suggest that if all you are doing is simple historical costumes, use the book if you want to -- if you are researching historical accuracy, use with caution. In either case, don't brag about it, or else you may get to hear all sorts of nasty things. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:05:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19028 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14346; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15545 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:20:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15535 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-182-220.s220.tnt19.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.182.220]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id VAA25591 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380BF17F.7BECC57B@erols.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:15 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: silk stockings References: <19990412142509.67678.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Susannah Eanes wrote: > I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among > other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk > stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they > have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an > unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel > pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for > sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in > finding out more, please e-mail me privately. I am just starting to clear my H-COST message when I say your offer. If it is not to late please add my name and address to those who are interested David S. Mallinak matchlck@erol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:35:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19068 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17944; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19700 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:48:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19689 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k599.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.199]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA13839 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380BCD2E.3B70@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:45:18 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 References: <19991018181427.JQEB22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi R.L. Shep wrote: > > I have forwarded your request to Irene Joshi the South Asian Librarian > at the University of Washington Library. Clothing is one of her > specialties. In case you want to contact her directly her email is > joshi@u.washington.edu But could we all hear the answer please?? I would be very interested, myself. > A question from me: what would a well-to-do Indian (and I mean the > Asian sub-continent) traveller to 1515 Europe wear? It's just before > Moghul rule and I suppose he would have been Hindu. Would he, f.i., He would not have to be a Hindu. The Delhi Sultanate (est. ca. 1200 AD) for example, predates the Moghul "invasion" and the earliest Moslem incursions into the subcontinent (Sind) was in 711. (I'm looking in a book on architectural inscriptions, not costume, unfortunately) If he's going to be a Hindu, he could be a Rajput -- they wore nice clothes, not those diaperish looking dhoti things. (what can I say, I prefer cut-and-sewn garments to wrapped and draped) > aquire western type clothes on the long and slow way west and combine > these with some of his native dress, or would he be conservative, or, > on the other hand, completely do away with his things and go > Habsburg/late burgundian/landsknecht (he is not a military person, > though). Ugh. Then what's the point of having him be Indian?? The one book I have with any info on historic Indian costumes implies that an upper class *Northern* Indian man would have worn a costume similar to a Persian of the same status. So that might be a place to start. I hope there's lots of responses on this one! Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:38:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19072 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18780; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20253 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:52:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20245 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910190152.TAA20245@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 7408 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 19:52:35 -0600 Received: from ts26-37.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.151) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 19:52:35 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:01:18 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" >I mean the Cartwrights didn't change clothes for 10 years! That is funny. My grandmother loved Bonanza, and we would watch it every week. She would often comment on how much she hated that green coat Little Joe wore and wonder why they wouldn't let him wear anything else. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19076 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19284; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20528 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:54:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20518 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:54:35 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip5.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.5]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id SAA10381 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910190154.SAA10381@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:59:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: book review request Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The Man of Fashion: Peacock Males and Perfect Gentlemen > by Colin McDowell > > The blurb claims that it covers ostentation in men's dress, 16th-20th > century. It sounds intriguing, but I'm not ready to buy it without knowing > a little more. I got to see it this weekend. I plan on buying it, but then, I collect costume books. It seemed to have a rather gay emphasis, however. If that bothers you, you don't want it. It draws parallels from various times in history. I found it very interesting. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:43:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19082 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:43:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19675; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21125 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:58:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21114 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k599.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.199]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16212 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380BCF92.2BE0@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:55:30 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming References: <0.8f2a323d.253d1ad4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > I know...we're so occidental! > No one's mentioned > Ran > or > The Last Emperor Oh, I thought Last Emperor had been mentioned. Both Eastern and Western clothes were wonderful. Ran was great, but there are so many Japanese movies. I just thought it was great that someone had done Tibetan. And speaking of Orlando, I loved the movie, but the "Prince" in Uzbekistan (or wherever it was supposed to be) was all wrong! Was he a eunuch? He had no facial hair at all, and his clothing looked like it was left over from Thief of Baghdad. Cheers, Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19091 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20475; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21996 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:03:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21990 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:03:42 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip5.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.5]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA15714 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910190203.TAA15714@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:08:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Courtesans Priority: normal References: <0.3749bef5.253cb6d5@aol.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com Regarding 18th Century and Valmont: > All I can tell you is that she played her character as much to the letter > of what she found. One of the interesteing things she found was that cross > dressing for females was exclusive to the courtesans. Sorry I could not be > much more help than that. That's interesting. It certainly wasn't the case for 16th Century. There are many instances where women crossdressed, often just for the fun of it, including notable women who are not necessarily notorious, such as Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth I. They were known as Roaring Girls. Plays were written about some of the ones who did so. I have a playbill copy of one called "He-she." . Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19097 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:51:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20834; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22381 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:06:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22364 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p45.directcon.net [206.170.184.94]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02343 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:04:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199910190204.TAA02343@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:29 PM 10/18/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >Y >--Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert >and he had about thirteen children. Cheaper By the Dozen. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:02:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19113 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22079; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:17:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23749 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:15:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23741 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-54-156.s156.tnt16.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.54.156]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA09536; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380BF7CD.F269197@erols.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:47:09 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question References: <990416115613.12822b@centum.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" "I. Marc Carlson" wrote: > Hi, it's me again. I am trying to find factual evidence of what types of shoes were > being worn in Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the Steppes, and the > Ancient Far East. Basically, I'm currently out of leads since it appears that no one > has dug any up, or bothered to discuss them. However, since I am moving into things > beyond my normal areas of research, I may just be missing the literature -- so I am > asking for help. Any help. I would prefer archaeology over pictures, contemporary art > over something made up for a costuming book, you know - the basic drill :) A friend visted West Germany about ten years ago and brought back a catalog of exhibt of shoes. Nearly 100 pages of pictures of shoes from England, Germany and Russia. I use it just for the pictures of shoes and the years. As I do not read German (and do not know anyone who is will to translate the captions) it is about all I can. If the information is usefull maybe you can locate another copy. I have very little idea what it says but what would be the publisher I have copied what appears to usefull information therefore.... Deutsches Ledermuseum Katolog Heft 6 Deutsches Schuhmuseum 1979 KATALOG des DEUSCHEN LEDERMUSUEM mit dem angeschlossenen DEUTSCHEN SCHMUSEUM ... Heft 6 Deutsches Schuhmuseum 1. Auflage 1980. Katalog der Sonderausstellung,,Market in der Sahel 1979. David S Mallinak matchlck@erols.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19117 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22461; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24304 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:19:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24298 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k599.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.199]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20295 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380BD48A.4EDB@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:16:42 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? References: <6235FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > > -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > > Recently, the man in my life asked me to make him an early (Tang > Dynasty, say) costume to wear to an SCA event. After looking at a bunch > of art books, I think I have it covered, but there is one thing that still > really mystifies me. > > Apparently, many of these men are wearing what looks like a hat but is > actually a black scarf tied over a topknot. According to "5000 Years of Did you find out any more about these "turban"?? Someone I know is thinking about a costume, and this could be useful info! Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:17:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19132 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23908; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25980 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:31:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f330.hotmail.com [207.82.250.109]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA25970 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 77167 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 1999 02:30:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19991019023057.77165.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.30.228.38 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:30:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.30.228.38] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: side-laced bodices Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:30:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: "Linda Yordy" >Actually, I've found a painting using both front and side lacing. >It's >Cosimo Tura's "Spring" from c. 1460. And there is another one done by Piero della Francesca called "la Madonna del parto" which shows both front and side lacing on the gown. > >You can find it at the Web Gallery Search: >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.html Ditto. (But look under Piero della Francesca, religious paintings, madonna). Karie (AKA Allessandre) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:31:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19149 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:31:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24958; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28062 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:44:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28047 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FJT00L01WVWLC@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:43:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:43:08 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question In-reply-to: <199910190215.UAA23808@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FJT00L03WVWLC@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.69 References: <199910190215.UAA23808@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu <"David S. Mallinak" > >> Hi, it's me again. I am trying to find factual >> evidence of what types of shoes were being worn in >> Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the >> Steppes, and the Ancient Far East... > A friend visted West Germany about ten years ago and > brought back a catalog of exhibt of shoes. Nearly 100 > pages of pictures of shoes from England, Germany and > Russia...KATALOG des DEUSCHEN LEDERMUSUEM mit dem > angeschlossenen DEUTSCHEN SCHMUSEUM... Thank you. I will see if I can find this one. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:06:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19198 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28706; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04111 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04099 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.184] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11dPoT-000336-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:19:53 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:11:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) In-Reply-To: <0.8f2a323d.253d1ad4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:52 PM 10/18/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com >Ran Incredible film. I loved something I watched as a television series on Japanese Theater nights for months. They anglicized the title as: "The Shadow Warriors", but it is not the one by Kurosawa ... [et al.]. If I knew the real title and could find a copy, [I understand it was a 14 hour film that ran in segments in Japan originally.] I would buy it ASA humanly P. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:42:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19272 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:42:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02666; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09599 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:57:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09593 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:57:16 -0600 (MDT) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SEIL.Ync_ (4330) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.57338fe9.253d45fc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:56:44 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 17 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/99 8:28:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << --Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert and he had about thirteen children. The swimsuits were wonderful! >> Cheeper by the Dozen. The sequal is Bells on Their Toes. The books are fab- never seen the movie. -Alison Stacy acstacy@cc.owu.edu aliaclaire@aol.com Delaware, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:45:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19285 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02936; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10013 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:59:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10007 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:59:51 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FETfQ1N8_ (4464) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4807a299.253d4694@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:59:16 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 17:29:09 Pacific Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << -Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert and he had about thirteen children. The swimsuits were wonderful! >> Could you mean "Cheaper by the Dozen", with Clifton Webb & Myrna Loy? Made in the 50s and set in the 20s?? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:47:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19290 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03278; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10438 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:02:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10430 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07580 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380BEDEF.4ACECCC3@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:05:03 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns References: <003101bf17a0$f9971ea0$9f0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas For the person who asked me what hakama pants looked like, I put the Folkwear pattern pictures on my website. http://people.ne.mediaone.net/janicedals/temporary/hakama.html For the others who wanted the formula, it's really Folkwear's formula,so I can't just give it to you. We changed it slightly since we start before their sizes and extend past them. We also made the side openings shorter and altered the back. They came out fitting wonderfully well, with no side gapeing. Just had to fix the hem a bit on some of them, but that's a figure problem, not a pattern problem. My husband took Folkwear's way of measuring point to point to draft the pattern and did a spreadsheet on Microsoft Excel. It did the rest of the work for us. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:52:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19296 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03740; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11035 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:06:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11027 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:06:46 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ZWE0FU0kQ (4464) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4dcaa8b2.253d4834@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:06:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/1999 17:30:56 Pacific Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << In all fairness to TV it must be understood that they have very little time & not as much money compared to film. [Britain has less of a problem in this respect....mainly I think due to the way they teach costuming: with a respect for what is "correct" over being a fashion designer of some kind] Extras & walk-ons often look more correct than leads because they are pulled from studio stocks....ironic, huh? I mean the Cartwrights didn't change clothes for 10 years! >> I know, GROSS! By the end of the show, Hoss' leather vest was looking kinda scummy! I think the 50s was the worst decade for current details "oozing" into film and television. Bonanza is one of the best examples, but you see it all over the place. To some extent it's a natural phenomenon, discussed here on the list from time to time, but the 50s seems to have really left out any attempt to get it right (except the bigger budget A films). What would it have cost that show to put those women in even a half-hearted attempt at a period corset? Not that much, but they wanted the modern bustline (Ugh, not my favorite). And then there was all that BLUE eyeshadow. Very frontier. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:57:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19300 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:57:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04004; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11553 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:10:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11545 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-135.s135.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.135]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id AAA25590 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01bb01bf19e8$2dd7fce0$263daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199910190204.TAA02343@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:12:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >--Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert > >and he had about thirteen children. > > Cheaper By the Dozen. That's it! I love this movie, especially the lesson on bathing. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 22:58:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19304 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04454; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11977 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:13:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11971 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:12:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991019041243.OJTW22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:12:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:08:46 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991019041243.OJTW22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I am afraid that the costuming in *7 Years in Tibet* put me off because everything was so CLEAN. They may be authentic in the ultimate sense but not in the practical sense. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) >Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 5:52 PM > > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:50:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >susanf@netwiz.net writes: > ><< > Didn't anyone else like Kundun and 7 Years in Tibet for the > costumes?? They were as authentic as possible and had real > Tibetans to correct them when they weren't. It's a way of life > that's lost -- it was nice to see it captured on film for a > little while. > >> >I know...we're so occidental! >No one's mentioned >Ran >or >The Last Emperor _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:01:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19319 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:01:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04743; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:15:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12467 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:15:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12459 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:15:47 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PZTa06991 (4464) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.29458c90.253d4a50@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:15:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Marc Carlson wrote: >> I am trying to find factual >> evidence of what types of shoes were being worn in >> Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the >> Steppes, and the Ancient Far East... Check "20,000 Years of Fashion" by Boucher and pull out the source texts he used for his references to footwear. He spends almost the first half of the book on antiquities, so there's a good deal to pull from. Then if you can locate the texts he used to research his conclusions at a library or with ILL, it might be a place to find more detailed material. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:02:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19323 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04921; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12650 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:17:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12645 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:17:13 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LYCLrz3a_ (4412) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bcac83b0.253d4a9e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:16:30 EDT Subject: H-COST: Cross Dressing Elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/99 10:06:16 PM, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: << There are many instances where women crossdressed, often just for the fun of it, including notable women who are not necessarily notorious, such as Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth I. >> I would be interested to know where this tidbit came from. I've not encountered this in my studies of Queen Elizabeth. Could you please cite the source for me? Yours gratefully, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:06:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19327 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:06:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05298; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13184 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:20:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13178 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.165.47]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991019042011.IZRV20426@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:20:11 +0000 Message-ID: <380BF0FE.E8271F1B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:18:06 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing References: <0.36aa41a1.253c82b5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson DRGurley@aol.com wrote: > It's my understanding that a corset was worn over the chemise and under the > bodice of Elizabethan costumes of all but peasant level. Is this accurate? CAn't help you there. > I've seen many posts about gap between the laces--both front and back--and am > wondering how one keeps the corset from showing between the laces. The gap referred to is the one between the sides of the corset, not both the corset and bodice. The reason you want a gap in the corset is to account for variations in weight/water retention. The bodice shouldn't have a gap- it should close completely. > All my bodices lace tightly closed over my corset. Are there alternatives? That's the correct way. > I'm also interested in making a front lace bodice with a detachable stomacher > so that a) I can lace into myself, b)it will give me several options for > combinations (peasant, merchant class, etc). Any thoughts and/or tips would > be appreciated. I'm not sure a detachable stomacher would be period for Elizabethan, but it probably would be for Cavalier. Not real interested in Elizabethan myself. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:07:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19332 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05456; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13424 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:22:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13416 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:22:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.165.47]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991019042212.JALC20426@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:22:12 +0000 Message-ID: <380BF176.F52D517C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:06 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing References: <0.36aa41a1.253c82b5@aol.com> <380BDA4D.26AC@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Freya wrote: > -If the bodicee is boned and no corset is used is it alright to let the > boning channels (stiching) show on the outside? I have some light weight > bones that are too flexible, will it cause problems if I put 2 bones in > each channel? My personal preference is that the boning channels shouldn't show - I just think it looks neater and more finished. YMMV, and I don't know if there's a period precedent. CArolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19402 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08639; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18320 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:56:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA18303 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12708 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 04:56:08 -0000 Received: from i48-12-39.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO teleport.com) (216.26.4.231) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 04:56:08 -0000 Message-ID: <380BF7A2.8F178331@teleport.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:46:27 -0700 From: Stephen Fairman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) References: <199910190204.TAA02343@apollo.directcon.net> <01bb01bf19e8$2dd7fce0$263daccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Fairman Penny Ladnier wrote: > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > > >--Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency > expert > > >and he had about thirteen children. > > > > Cheaper By the Dozen. > > That's it! I love this movie, especially the lesson on bathing. > > Later... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _________________________________________________________________ That is the book that taught me how to bath correctly. I still find myself doing it the Gilbreath Way! Loved the books and still re-read them and rent the movies periodically. Those stories really affected my live, for some reason. Esteban McLachan Shadow's Treasure Chest _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:48:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19411 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:48:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09035; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19314 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:03:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19305 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.157] ([209.207.57.148]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06033 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:03:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0FJT00K03SSK32@vega.utulsa.edu> References: <199910190028.SAA07259@net.indra.com> <199910190028.SAA07259@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:03:40 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: cyclas sources and comments on the annotations--long Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu >The problem is that I believe (and this is really an >opinion, since I can't back it up with clear facts) that > "linguistic evolution" as a description is really only > valid only for current things, not historical things. This is a valid distinction. I used the wrong phrase to describe what I meant, which was a drift in meaning that can occur incrementally and unwittingly as information is used in several texts, each of which uses their predecessor as a source. It's the literary version of the "telephone game." Regarding the bibliography, Boucher I love, Kohler I use cautiously, and Davies I haven't read. >(Hill, Margot, and Peter Bucknell, Evolution of Fashion, >New York Drama Book Specialists 1981, c1967) >A lovely beginner's book and written to present the >information, pre-digested to an audience that doesn't >have time to mess with research. For that reason, the >authors don't cite their material, and it's practically >impossible to back track their work. If you are doing >historical costumes, use the book -- if you are >researching historical accuracy, use with caution. I personally dislike this book rather intensely, and it's mostly because I feel that the patterns have little relation to the costumes they are meant to represent. I admit that I haven't read the text that closely, having had an instant and visceral reaction to the pattern shapes. I feel that your caveat is well-deserved. >(Norris, Herbert. Costume and Fashion, Volume Two. >Senlac to Bosworth. London: Dent, 1927) <...> He doesn't cite the work >particularly well, or particularly throughly, and there >I have heard people accuse him of making material up. I >wouldn't go THAT far I would. If you'll look at figure 576 on page 490, you'll see a drawing of Elizabeth on a horse in a very fetching ensemble. When I first saw this, I thought, how pretty. In the text, you'll discover that he's based it on a very short description: black velvet, cut all over in a design, worn over an underdress of white satin; bodice and sleeves braided with narrow gold [plus description of hair and hat, which are probably pretty close to true]. Now this description could apply to any of many different styles from 1564, and I could go into detail about why this particular outfit wasn't it, but I'll spare you that. Norris also tends to be, in the best tradition of secondary sources, revisionist. For example, in figure 719, on page 625, we see a lovely young lady setting a ruff. She seems like a great example of a mid to lower class woman, and you don't find that many pictures of these. Now I will admit that the ruff-setting part stays the same, but if you look in Janet Arnold's QE's Wardrobe Unlock'd, on page 228 you will see the original source for Norris' lovely maid--a monkey, wearing a different dress. Norris also omits poor young Edward VI's codpiece (to protect the public, I guess) as well as changing the trim on his outfit. I'm not claiming that everything in his work is inaccurate, and I think much of his text is probably just fine, but as you say, use with caution, especially the pictures. >In either case, don't brag >about it, or else you may get to hear all sorts of nasty >things. (For sample, see above!) ;) Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:57:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19417 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09673; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20639 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:12:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20632 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:12:36 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FPLa17081 (4333) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.1a6ea62d.253d57b3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:12:19 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 10/18/99 11:58:56 PM Central Daylight Time, fairmans@teleport.com writes: << Cheaper By the Dozen. > > That's it! I love this movie, especially the lesson on bathing. >> I also like it. THe sequal also where he dies and the Mother goes to work. I can't remember the name of it either. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 00:02:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19432 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:01:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09977; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21313 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:16:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21306 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from opalsun (dcn251-21.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.251.21]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.9.3/DCN8.9.3.1) with SMTP id WAA21518 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:16:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Margo Glenn-Lewis" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc (fwd) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:14:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf19f0$e368b9c0$650210ac@opalsun.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Margo Glenn-Lewis" Oooh ooh oooh - I'm interested!! Turkey, Morocco, Afganistan - you betcha! Ah, how much? Margo Glenn-Lewis > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ioana Timariu > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 7:46 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc (fwd) > > > > -Poster: Ioana Timariu > > > Hello! Thought some of you might appreciate this: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:15:17 -0700 > From: "Faint, Kylie" > Reply-To: med-dance@europe.std.com > To: med-dance@world.std.com > Subject: COS Real Folkloric costumes from Turkey etc > > X-33208-Poster: "Faint, Kylie" > > Hi list, > > An "International Gallery" in my neighbourhood is closing > down, and they > have some *awesome* folkloric outfits for sale, which were part of a > travelling exhibition they did in the US & Canada - these are > museum quality > costumes! > > I've been wracking my brain trying to think who might > appreciate these, to > little avail, so I'm just throwing the info out there, in > case anyone's > interested. > > The costume I looked at (they are all bagged up) was 13 pieces, for a > particular village in Turkey. It had everything from > underwear (very cute > bloomer type undies!), tunic, apron, vest, jacket, shawls, headpiece & > jewelry, even a set of kashiklar (dancing spoons)! The owner > phoned me up > today, and said that he might be able to swing me a special > deal, since he > knows I'm genuinely interested in the stuff. I am, but I'm > wondering what I > would do with a collection of authentic folk costumes :) I > don't know where > all the costumes are from, as I only looked at one. The shop > has garments > from Syria, Morroco, Egypt, Afghanistan etc also. > > I guess thats all, just had to pass this info on to someone!! > > Kylie > KFaint@Sempra.com > > -- > X-To-Get-Help-File: re list & assoc. info (graphics, lyrics, > digests, etc), > email dancers-archive@world.std.com w/ SUBJECT: 'help > med-dance'. Body ignored. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 01:01:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19507 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15309; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28507 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:16:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28502 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.138] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11dSZ5-00037L-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:16:08 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012134940.00c45990@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:52:04 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Stubbes on Jerkins In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991012133447.00c1ade0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >He was an Englishman, commenting on English fashion. I have his collected >opinions on Ruffs, women's hair, shoes, clothing, etc. online at >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/stubbes.html > >> What country was he talking about - Germany? >> >> >"Their coates and Jerkins, as they be diverse in colors, so be they >> >diverse in fashions; for some be made with colors, some without, some >> >close to the bodie, some loose, covering the whole body downe to the >> >theighe, like baggs or sacks that weare >> > >> >drawen over them, hidinge the dimensions and proportions of the body: >> >some are buttened down the brest, some under the arm, and some downe >> >the back; some with flappes over the brest, some without, some with >> >great sleeves, some with small, and some with non at all; some pleated >> >and crested behind, and curiously gathered; some not so; & how many >> >days so many sortes of apparell some one man will have, and thinketh >> >it good provision in faire weather to lay up against a storme! " I know he had some opinions on German costumes, and I was wondering if this was one of them. Davenport quotes him on German costume (where is that book when I need it?). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 01:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19581 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:30:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17120; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01530 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:45:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01521 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.138] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11dSZO-00037L-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:16:26 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012155009.00c482b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:51:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies In-Reply-To: <008f01bf19c9$0887c660$263daccf@e4c2n6> References: <0.b18f8e76.253ccd1f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Best Japanese historical - Chushingura - the 47 Ronin story. They've got the best Japanese court costumes of anyone's. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 01:44:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19587 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:44:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17779; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02950 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:59:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f16.hotmail.com [207.82.250.27]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA02945 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 59564 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 1999 06:59:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19991019065901.59563.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.34.194 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:59:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.34.194] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Need to take a break from the list/thanks much to all Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:59:00 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo to all I'm realizing that I need to take a break from the list. It's taking me too much time to read the posts. You folks are just way too prolific. :-) Thanks very much for answering my questions and for sharing your knowledge. I am planning to resubscribe to the digest version after my break. Until then, take care Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 04:41:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16231 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25810; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 03:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA13141 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 03:55:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13135 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 03:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.137]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991019095043.ISUT19696.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:50:43 +0100 Message-ID: <380CA594.226@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:08:36 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings References: <19990412142509.67678.qmail@hotmail.com> <380BF17F.7BECC57B@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn David S. Mallinak wrote: > > -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > > Susannah Eanes wrote: > > > I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among > > other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk > > stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they > > have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an > > unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel > > pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for > > sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in > > finding out more, please e-mail me privately. > > I am just starting to clear my H-COST message when I say your offer. > > If it is not to late please add my name and address to those who are > interested > > David S. Mallinak > matchlck@erol.com > Please also add me to the list for some reason I didn't get the original email otherwise I would have jumped in earlier _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:22:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16567 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04774; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28181 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:37:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28174 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-36.s36.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.36]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA09659 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012f01bf1a2f$04df6e80$24f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Theatre Design list Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:39:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" There is a new email list on www.onelist.com called TheatreDesign . This list deals with costume design, makeup artists, and set design for the film and theatre industries. I do not run this list, I am just a member. One feature of the list is guest artists. This month it's make-up artist Jennifer Aspinall. Jen is a make-up artist, who has worked in all media. Her theatre work includes NY City Opera, Victor/Victoria (Broadway)and vacation relief for Phantom of the Opera (Broadway). Jen created the make-up and special effects for the Toxic Avenger (film), more recent she designed Basquat turning David Bowie into Andy Warhol (film). Currently, for television, she designs MadTV (Fox), before that Saturday Night Live (NBC). Next month it's lighting designer Dawn Chang. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:24:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16577 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:24:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04980; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28426 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28416 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Tue Oct 19 05:38:54 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:38:54 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.37 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" Of course Tibetans washed their clothes! Clean clothes were held in high regard and would have been entirely appropriate among the Llasa elite. If you look at Heinrich Harrer's book of photos of pre-occupation Tibet, everyone looks clean--real evidence that the notion of "dirty natives" is much more stereotype than actual truth. Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:08:46 R.L. Shep wrote: > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >I am afraid that the costuming in *7 Years in Tibet* put me off because >everything was so CLEAN. They may be authentic in the ultimate sense but >not in the practical sense. >~!~ R.L.Shep >http://www.rlshep.com > >---------- >>From: AlbertCat@aol.com >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) >>Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 5:52 PM >> > >> >>-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com >> >>In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:50:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>susanf@netwiz.net writes: >> >><< >> Didn't anyone else like Kundun and 7 Years in Tibet for the >> costumes?? They were as authentic as possible and had real >> Tibetans to correct them when they weren't. It's a way of life >> that's lost -- it was nice to see it captured on film for a >> little while. >> >> >>I know...we're so occidental! >>No one's mentioned >>Ran >>or >>The Last Emperor HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:24:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16581 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05053; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28488 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28483 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991019125447.23321.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:54:47 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:54:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 My question is, it is remotely "period" for any specific group of people in any specific time or is it just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it anyway, but I was curious... If I am going to spend that much money on something I would like to know about it... Thanks! Sarah ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16600 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05869; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29359 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:45:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29351 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Tue Oct 19 05:44:40 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:44:40 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.163 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" I LOVE the Buccaneers!! Tess of the D'Urbervilles had some Beautiful clothes in it as well. I've been watching the Masterpiece theatre version of Aristocrats (3 part series, part 3 on pbs next sunday night) and I'm not sure about how authentic they are, but the costumes are beautiful, and plenty of them to be seen. --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:21:03 Pandoorah wrote: > >The Buccaneers (the BBC production) Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:45:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16673 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:45:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08014; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA01878 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01871 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA05620 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08143 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:00:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:00:05 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming In-Reply-To: <380BCF92.2BE0@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed My favorite non-occidental film was Kama Sutra, set in 16th century India. Absolutely /droolsome/ costumes! Drea On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Susan Fatemi wrote: > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > I know...we're so occidental! > > No one's mentioned > > Ran > > or > > The Last Emperor > > Oh, I thought Last Emperor had been mentioned. Both Eastern > and Western clothes were wonderful. > > Ran was great, but there are so many Japanese movies. > I just thought it was great that someone had done Tibetan. > > And speaking of Orlando, I loved the movie, but the "Prince" > in Uzbekistan (or wherever it was supposed to be) was all > wrong! Was he a eunuch? He had no facial hair at all, and > his clothing looked like it was left over from Thief of > Baghdad. > > Cheers, > > Susan > > -- > Oh Noh! Kimonos! > susanf@netwiz.net > http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:54:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16700 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08920; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03154 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:09:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03137 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23183 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:08:33 -0400 Message-ID: <380C6D53.16D9A561@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:09:00 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Regarding Tibet, and movies There was a long discussion about Phantom Menace and Tibetan/other asian derivations of the costumes, this past spring. One of the fan sites has a great photo of a Tibetan woman, wearing the sort of outfit which must have directly influenced the "speaking before the Senate" outfit that Amidala wears. (Horned hair, pendant cylinders, shoulders pads on steroids, etc.) It's at http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~duffy/pic162.html cv -- "Oh bother," said the Borg, "We've assimilated Pooh." (source unknown, alas) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16770 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10689; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06357 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:31:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06352 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA08941 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00af01bf1a35$a039e1c0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:18:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Greenberg & Hammer also sells steel boning by the pound, in rolls you can cut to fit. I ordered individual bones as directed for my first corset, and found I had to alter the corset and then had to cut the bones anyway. So I next ordered a roll of the 1/2" boning and have been very happy. I need to call in an order for the 1/4" soon........ -----Original Message----- From: AlbertCat@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:44 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/18/1999 7:45:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jns-shadow@home.com writes: > ><< > If the bodicee is boned and no corset is used is it alright to let the > boning channels (stiching) show on the outside? I have some light weight > bones that are too flexible, will it cause problems if I put 2 bones in > each channel? > >> > >I would say no. The casing should not show....except maybe the ones at the >edge of pieces that lace together. I would also not bone the bodice until you >have proper bones....rigelene or better, steel bones. You may order them from > >Greenberg & Hammer 1-800-955-5135 > >Ask for a catalogue. In mine the 1/2" steel are .60 to.65 a piece or $3.40 >to $4.10 a dozen. See....not bad. They come in 1/2" increments of length so >figure out just how many of each length you need or just get the longest & >cut & tip them.....but then you have to get tipping fluid. It depends on how >many you need. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:19:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16774 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11009; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06842 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:34:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06830 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:34:43 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6AVM0ytnuZ (4254) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5582f8e7.253dcd52@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:34:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/1999 9:01:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << My favorite non-occidental film was Kama Sutra, set in 16th century India. >> Eduardo Castro designed that in something like 2 weeks! [I worked for him on the miniseries "The Wedding" What a great guy! Love him!] The original designer was fired because she just wasn't "getting it". She is the one who did that horrible "Bram Stoker's Dracula"....in which she also didn't "get it". It is anything but accurate...Kama Sutra....but beautiful in the extreme! Great soundtrack too....I recommend the CD. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:21:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16780 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11196; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07136 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:36:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07130 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:36:22 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QTFa09341 (4254) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.eff53169.253dcdb5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:35:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/1999 9:01:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << My favorite non-occidental film was Kama Sutra, set in 16th century India. >> I forgot to mention....want to see some interesting Indian costume....and an interesting film...try the 3 part "Mahabarata". _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:59:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16838 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14592; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA13224 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:12:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13209 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23158 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp204-73.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.73]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12464 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003601bf1a3b$d41fa6e0$49ccf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: terminology Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:02:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF1A4B.52F63600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF1A4B.52F63600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Costume terminology is a bitch. From the earliest costumebooks writers = and researchers have struggled with the terms under which different = costume parts were known; then and now. The problem was only exaggerated = by people copying these terms form their favourite costumebooks, also = depending in which language they were written. Some people, out of = nescessity, can only read books in their own language. I am in the = luxureous position that, besides Dutch, I can read also English, French, = German, some Italian and Spanish en a little bit of the Scandinavian = languages, as well as some Latin (with a little bit of help). I also own = several etymological dictionaries which give the sources of words in all = kinds of medieval or earlier languages. Dictionaries for medieval or = older languages are also useful to have. These makes it easier to = compare terms and read what writers about costume of the past did wrong = (;-) ). The best method, of course, is going back to the original sources. I = have done that and am still searching for medieval accounts, cronicles, = testaments. etc. in middle-dutch to find out what people in my favourite = period (ca1250-1350) called the several parts of the costume they wore. = What you find is (and the other researchers will agree) that sometimes = people then had different terms for the same thing and that some terms = could point to a few different garments, even within this short period = of a 100 years. My problem is not as great as that of costume historians who want to use = a complete and all embracing terminology in the medium they're using, be = it a lecture, a paper or a book. I write for re-enactors or living = history people who just want to know what people in their chosen period = called things. For my own fun I want to know where the terms I encounter = come from, how they developped and what eventually became of them. I = also want to search for the development of garments from one thing or = use to another. And a fascinating search it is... This brings me to the cyclas. In my experience I have never in medieval = sources encountered a garment with that name. I have, however, read = about the cloth 'cyclat', 'ziklat', etc. This was, according to the = Tristan Romance of Gotfried von Strassburg (ca 1210), a heavy silk cloth = shot with gold- or silverthreads, a forerummer of 'brocat', which had = more of a regular pattern woven into it. As with the 'bliaut' which was = derived from 'bliat' another type of silk weave, the cyclas, if it was = really called that way then, the name of the cloth could have become the = name of a typical garment made of it. It must have been a costly one, = meant for the nobility, as they were about the only ones able to afford = it. I doubt this, though... In my opinion (for what it's worth) the confusion has originated with = the costume historians of the last century who had a broad time-canvas = to fill. Here's how I think it went: they saw the similarity between the = medieval 'cyclat' and the greek 'cuclas', 'cuclaton' a kind of loose = wrap-like robe or mantle (Roman 'cucullus') and as they had seen = sideless (and I don't mean sleeveless, so with open sides) wraps in = medieval miniatures, they gave these the name 'cyclas'. They did not = know then that this type of overthrow garment was mostly called 'jupe', = 'jupon', 'jupel' or 'houce', 'housse' etc. i.o.w. a poncho kind of thing = of a fairly narrow width. Si non e vero, e ben trovato, huh? Henk ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF1A4B.52F63600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Costume terminology is a bitch. From = the earliest=20 costumebooks writers and researchers have struggled with the terms under = which=20 different costume parts were known; then and now. The problem was only=20 exaggerated by people copying these terms form their favourite = costumebooks,=20 also depending in which language they were written. Some people, out of=20 nescessity, can only read books in their own language. I am in the = luxureous=20 position that, besides Dutch, I can read also English, French, = German, some=20 Italian and Spanish en a little bit of the Scandinavian languages, as = well as=20 some Latin (with a little bit of help). I also own several etymological=20 dictionaries which give the sources of words in all kinds of medieval or = earlier=20 languages. Dictionaries for medieval or older languages are also useful = to have.=20 These makes it easier to compare terms and read what writers about = costume of=20 the past did wrong (;-) ).
 
The best method, of course, is going = back to the=20 original sources. I have done that and am still searching for medieval = accounts,=20 cronicles, testaments. etc. in middle-dutch to find out what people in = my=20 favourite period (ca1250-1350) called the several parts of the costume = they=20 wore. What you find is (and the other researchers will agree) that = sometimes=20 people then had different terms for the same thing and that some terms = could=20 point to a few different garments, even within this short period of a = 100=20 years.
 
My problem is not as great as that of = costume=20 historians who want to use a complete and all embracing terminology in = the=20 medium they're using, be it a lecture, a paper or a book. I write for=20 re-enactors or living history people who just want to know what people = in their=20 chosen period called things. For my own fun I want to know where the = terms I=20 encounter come from, how they developped and what eventually became of = them. I=20 also want to search for the development of garments from one thing or = use to=20 another. And a fascinating search it is...
 
This brings me to the cyclas. In my = experience I=20 have never in medieval sources encountered a garment with that name. I = have,=20 however, read about the cloth 'cyclat', 'ziklat', etc. This was, = according to=20 the Tristan Romance of Gotfried von Strassburg (ca 1210), a heavy silk = cloth=20 shot with gold- or silverthreads, a forerummer of 'brocat', which had = more of a=20 regular pattern woven into it. As with the 'bliaut' which was derived = from=20 'bliat' another type of silk weave, the cyclas, if it was really called = that way=20 then, the name of the cloth could have become the name of a typical = garment made=20 of it. It must have been a costly one, meant for the nobility, as they = were=20 about the only ones able to afford it. I doubt this, = though...
 
In my opinion (for what it's worth) the = confusion=20 has originated with the costume historians of the last century who had a = broad=20 time-canvas to fill. Here's how I think it went: they saw the = similarity=20 between the medieval 'cyclat' and the greek 'cuclas', 'cuclaton' a kind = of loose=20 wrap-like robe or mantle (Roman 'cucullus') and as they had seen = sideless (and I=20 don't mean sleeveless, so with open sides) wraps in medieval miniatures, = they=20 gave these the name 'cyclas'. They did not know then that this type of = overthrow=20 garment was mostly called 'jupe', 'jupon', 'jupel' or 'houce', 'housse' = etc.=20 i.o.w. a poncho kind of thing of a fairly narrow width. Si non e vero, e = ben=20 trovato, huh?
 
Henk
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF1A4B.52F63600-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 09:16:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16883 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:16:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16785; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17299 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:30:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17287 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-36.s36.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.36]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10005 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01cf01bf1a3e$e3d75da0$24f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <380C6D53.16D9A561@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:33:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > There was a long discussion about Phantom Menace and Tibetan/other asian > derivations of the costumes, this past spring. One of the fan sites has > a great photo of a Tibetan woman, wearing the sort of outfit which must > have directly influenced the "speaking before the Senate" outfit that > Amidala wears. (Horned hair, pendant cylinders, shoulders pads on > steroids, etc.) I was watching Style cable channel this past weekend and saw that some designer has created a line of clothing inspired from the Phantom Menace. The ladies hairstyles were great! They looked so much like the queen's. The styles also did a lot of fancy braiding. I didn't catch the name of the designer. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 09:18:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16887 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:18:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17126; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17710 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:32:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17685 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.43.192]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with smtp (EXIM-3.03) for id 11daJa-0007ei-00; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:32:38 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991019163021.0091dd20@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:30:21 +0200 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question In-Reply-To: <199910190215.UAA23808@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > >A friend visted West Germany about ten years ago and brought back a catalog of exhibt of >shoes. Nearly 100 pages of pictures of shoes from England, Germany and Russia.... > >Heft 6 Deutsches Schuhmuseum 1. Auflage 1980. Katalog der Sonderausstellung,,Market in >der Sahel 1979. http://www.ledermuseum.de/ -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:03:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16928 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:03:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24010; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28905 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:16:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f320.hotmail.com [207.82.250.240]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28886 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8807 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 1999 15:16:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19991019151608.8806.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:16:08 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: late 15th C Italian Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:16:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: Charlene Charette >We have a high-persona event coming up. It's geographically and >temporally far from my usual persona. For this event I'll be a late >15th C Italian (Venice) fruitseller (preferably female). Any >pointers to >appropriate clothing? > >Thanks, >--Charlene Dear Charlene, This might be a bit too late-period, but there is a picture of an Italian woman selling fruit at (about mid-page), by Vincenzo Campi, 1580. Or try the search engine at looking for Italian (1450 - 1500). There are several images you will have to go through but it's worth the effort. Good luck! Karie (AKA Allessandre) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16932 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25050; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00845 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00802 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24757 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:23:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp204-67.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.67]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA04838 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:23:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00f801bf1a45$d79699a0$49ccf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19991018152641.007abd30@pop.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:20:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Marc wrote: > Here we are. Matthew of Paris, in describing the wedding and coronation > of Eleanor to Henry III in 1236 "...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus > auro textus circumdati, ..." Well, hmm. After checking with my Latin > resources, this looks like *either* "silken ornate garments, encircled (in > the manner of a cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate garments, > encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). with golden made stuff". I'm > thinking the former. Could it be: "ornamented silken vestments (or garments) of gold woven cyclat" or even shorter: "golden ornamented cyclat-silk garments"? 'Textus' is not 'made' but means specifically 'woven', as the gold thread is woven through the silk. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:09:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16936 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:09:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25028; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00849 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00801 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24742 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:23:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp204-67.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.67]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA04830 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:23:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00f701bf1a45$d6701b00$49ccf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <19991018181427.JQEB22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Subject: Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:45:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E8_01BF1A51.4DBBF520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E8_01BF1A51.4DBBF520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515Thanks, R.L. Henk ------=_NextPart_000_00E8_01BF1A51.4DBBF520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: H-COST: indian traveller 1515
Thanks, R.L.
 
Henk
------=_NextPart_000_00E8_01BF1A51.4DBBF520-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:26:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16950 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28282; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05463 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:41:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f15.hotmail.com [207.82.250.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05439 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 37968 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 1999 15:40:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19991019154029.37967.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:40:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:40:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: Sarah Toney >Take a look at this: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 > >My question is, it is remotely "period" for any >specific group of people in any specific time or is it >just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it anyway, >but I was curious... If I am going to spend that much >money on something I would like to know about it... >Thanks! >Sarah I am _not_ an expert, nor have very much information regarding this type of clothing. I bow to anyone else's more expert opinions, whether they prove me wrong or no. Having said that... It looks completely fantastic to me (ie fantasy, not historical - although it is a lovely costume!). The first giveaway is the bare midriff. From my meager learning from our Middle Eastern dance troupes I have learned that very little was bared on Middle Eastern woman, except her forearms, and her face/hair. As you travel further east, the more covered she is. The baring of the midriff occurred when dancers came west. The colors of the outfit are more like chemical/metallic dyes (vs organic/vegetable dyes). And the striped material is ok but I don't think it would have been used as ruffled trim on the outfit. It doesn't look like the outfits some of our SCA Middle Eastern Dancers have done (the ones who are more expert). It looks more like a Cabaret outfit. Unfortunately, it is not a "traditional" Middle Eastern dance costume, but it is very pretty and I hope you get much use out of it. (Perhaps for Halloween?) Sincerely, Karie (AKA Allessandre) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16954 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28244; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:40:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f296.hotmail.com [207.82.251.187]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05203 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 82804 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 1999 15:39:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19991019153944.82803.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:39:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:39:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: Sarah Toney >Take a look at this: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 > >My question is, it is remotely "period" for any >specific group of people in any specific time or is it >just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it anyway, >but I was curious... If I am going to spend that much >money on something I would like to know about it... >Thanks! >Sarah I am _not_ an expert, nor have very much information regarding this type of clothing. I bow to anyone else's more expert opinions, whether they prove me wrong or no. Having said that... It looks completely fantastic to me (ie fantasy, not historical - although it is a lovely costume!). The first giveaway is the bare midriff. From my meager learning from our Middle Eastern dance troupes I have learned that very little was bared on Middle Eastern woman, except her forearms, and her face/hair. As you travel further east, the more covered she is. The baring of the midriff occurred when dancers came west. The colors of the outfit are more like chemical/metallic dyes (vs organic/vegetable dyes). And the striped material is ok but I don't think it would have been used as ruffled trim on the outfit. It doesn't look like the outfits some of our SCA Middle Eastern Dancers have done (the ones who are more expert). It looks more like a Cabaret outfit. Unfortunately, it is not a "traditional" Middle Eastern dance costume, but it is very pretty and I hope you get much use out of it. (Perhaps for Halloween?) Sincerely, Karie (AKA Allessandre) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16968 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29689; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07168 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07146 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.56.211]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991019154656.EMR15803.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:46:56 +0100 Message-ID: <380CF7C5.52D2@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:59:17 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke wrote: > > -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" > > I LOVE the Buccaneers!! Tess of the D'Urbervilles had some Beautiful clothes in it as well. I've been watching the Masterpiece theatre version of Aristocrats (3 part series, part 3 on pbs next sunday night) and I'm not sure about how authentic they are, but the costumes are beautiful, and plenty of them to be seen. Nice frocks my only criticism and that of my 1740's group was the use of saque dresses in the first 2 episodes as they were seen far too frequently despite it being a very new fashion which didn't really take off until the 50's, and too few caps worn indoors and caps and hats worn outdoors and lack of fichus oh and of course the soldiers uniforms in the last episode which hadn't been invented yet they being of the 1815 lifeguard variety not 1790's irish militia which they should have been. but who cares about uniforms, which would also be my comment on Last of The Mohicans by the way, Other than that they were pretty good and the nice thing was they were seen in the same dresses on lots of occassions meaning they had a proper sized (i.e not many frocks) wardrobe > > -dawn-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:34:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16973 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29783; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07258 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07244 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-36.s36.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.36]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20795 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <021301bf1a49$7c9f1b40$24f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Membership Scholarship Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:49:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Please pass this message on to interested college students in the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland and Washington, D.C. areas: Costume Society of America's Region II is inviting students to apply for their student membership competition. The region will be giving away 15 memberships to our organization. The application deadline is Nov. 15, 1999. Students may be in the following fields of study: Costume History, Fashion Design or Merchandising, Art History, History, Anthropology, Museum Studies, Material Culture, and other related fields. For more information, go to: http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/Region2/2announcmt.htm or go to the CSA main homepage and click on the regional webpages at http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com Good Luck, Penny Ladnier Webmaster, CSA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:39:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16985 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:39:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01577; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09513 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09322 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-172-51.01.promedia.net [209.160.172.51]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA29090 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:53:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bf1a4a$88bf3e40$33aca0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:56:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" When I was a young teen, I created a costume from "Xanadu" complete with leg warmers and roller skates!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >You all, I love movies so here is part of my real list, (I tried not to >repeat ones mentioned all ready). I have been compiling my list for awhile. > >--Somewhere in Time (it was on TV again last night), designer Jean-Pierre >Dorléac. >--The Great Gatsby, designer Theoni V. Aldredge. >--Recent version of A Midsummer Nights Dream, designer Gabriella Pescucci. >--The Great Ziegfeld (my favorite for historic and fantasy costumes), >designer Adrian >--Silverado, designer Kristi Zea >--Recent version of Last of the Mohicans ( :) Albert Cat), designer Elsa >Zamparelli >--Can help but love the costumes in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, >designer Hazel Pethig >--Meet Me in St. Louis, designer Irene Sharaff >--Lonesome Dove (yes, TV, it was too long for the big screen), designer Van >Broughton Ramsey >--Excalibur, designer Bob Ringwood >--Forrest Gump, designer Joanna Johnston >--Eve's Bayou, designer Karyn Wagner (II) >--Austin Powers #I & #2, designer Deena Appel >--Pleasantville, designer Judianna Makovsky >--Amercian Graffiti, designer Aggie Guerard Rodgers >--Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency expert >and he had about thirteen children. The swimsuits were wonderful! >--Music Man (was good for a musical), designer Dorothy Jeakins >--Grease (was good for a musical), designer Albert Wolsky >--Now and Then, designer Deena Appel >--Cross Creek, designer Joe I. Tompkins >--Night Shift (1982 version), designer Jodie Lynn Tillen >--Rasputin (HBO movie) >--Lust for Life (story of Van Gogh), designer Walter Plunkett >--Fanny and Alexander, designer Marik Vos-Lundh >--Schindler's List, designer Anna B. Sheppard >--Little Women, designer Colleen Atwood >--Victor, Victoria (not sure how accurate, but loved the costumes), designer >Patricia Norris >--Bonnie and Clyde, designer Theadora Van Runkle >--The Sting, designer Edith Head >--Lion Out of Africa > > >Some movies that I love that had good costumes that provided representation >of current fashion or what would become fashionable during the time: >--The Philadelphia Story, designer Adrian >--American Gigolo, designer Giorgio Armani (suits) >--Saturday Night Fever, designer Patrizia von Brandenstein >--Urban Cowboy (Boy, this was hard to admit that it was a fashion) >--Xanadu (the mix of costumes, spoke of the transition in fashion at the >time), designer Bobbie Mannix >--Three Coins in a Fountain, designer Dorothy Jeakins >--Woodstock, designer, The Crowd! >--Love Story, designer Alice Manougan Martin & Pearl Somner >--Annie Hall, designer Ralph Lauren & Ruth Morley >--Wayne's World, (those jeans with the knees out), designer Pat Tonnema >Hippie Musicals of the 1960s & 70s: >--Jesus Christ Superstar (chorus), designer Yvonne Blake >--Hair, designer Ann Roth >--Godspell, designers Sherrie Sucher & Susan Tsu >--The Breakfast Club (they are making a new one), designer Marilyn >Vance-Straker >--St. Elmo's Fire, designer Susan Becker > >My list goes on and on... > >I will be starting an email list soon on Movie Costumes. I am just trying >to come up with an identifical name for it. I'll let you know when I get it >up. > >Later... Penny >http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:41:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16994 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:41:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01821; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09951 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:55:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09909 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-172-51.01.promedia.net [209.160.172.51]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA29164 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:54:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bf1a4a$cbb370e0$33aca0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:58:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Me too, I'm interested!!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- -----Original Message----- From: David S. Mallinak To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 6:21 PM Subject: H-COST: Re: silk stockings > >-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > >Susannah Eanes wrote: > >> I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among >> other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk >> stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they >> have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an >> unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel >> pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for >> sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in >> finding out more, please e-mail me privately. > >I am just starting to clear my H-COST message when I say your offer. > >If it is not to late please add my name and address to those who are >interested > >David S. Mallinak >matchlck@erol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:56:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17022 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04585; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13960 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:11:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wasabi.infoengine.com (wasabi.infoengine.com [207.74.190.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13929 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [132.253.15.64] by wasabi.infoengine.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA57F2 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:11:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: gwalli@mail.infoengine.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:10:42 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" I just recently (this weekend) completed the Folkwear pattern for Japanese Hakama, specifically trying to create kobakama (a short version of hakama) for my husband to wear as part of a late 1500's recreation of a Samurai in full regalia. I must say, this pattern is not for a true novice. I work with complicated technical information every day and the Folkwear pattern takes a little getting used to because it is, after all, only measurements. I am not a rank novice, but I am still a novice in many regards because of things I've not done. I can read a pattern, I know a little bit about fitting, and I can sew better than a straight line if my machine is actually functioning properly. I still had trouble with this pattern. Here are the problems that gave me the most trouble: (1) The alphabetical scheme for measurement points worked well, but the table included with the pattern for the most common measurements was inadequate in two ways. First, not all the measurement points were in the table. Some were instead placed elsewhere in the pattern. Second, the instructions for doing your own measurements were very hard to read and follow. Perhaps this second point is my bias as a technical writer showing, but I thought the information could have been better layed out to make it easier to follow. Information in this section had a tendency to run together. (2) The pattern assumes you will be making the hakama with the back support. Understandable, but I would have liked to seen the pattern give options for making the hakama with just the belts and not the back support. The pattern is, admittedly, made for modern (mundane) use. (3) The layouts assume your fabric will always be folded for the cutting out. This is hard to explain because there's a point where it doesn't matter. My husband's size (6'5") made it matter. In order to have enough fabric to cut out the two halves of the hakama (or in my case, kobakama), I needed to unfold the fabric to its full width (60") and cut one piece out, moving down the fabric to cut out the next piece. This isn't exactly that clear in the pattern and the pictures belie the reality for most cases. If I'm reading the pattern correctly, unless your finished measurement from hip to floor (or wherever you stop) is 30" or less, you'll not be able to use the material folded in half the long way. The pictures show the fabric folded through the measurement and cutting out stage of construction. I made this mistake and now have a nice, short pair of hakama or a pair of not quite long enough kobakama. I'll be faking the bottom of the kobakama by inserting an extra wide band at the bottom leg openings and that should cover my husband enough that his shin guards will hide the bottom of the pants. (4) While my husband isn't large around as one might think for his height, the belt measurements for ties at the waist seemed short. To their credit, making the bands was incredibly easy (which is nice, because I've never made ties like this before) as long as you used your iron religously. (5) The pleating is....difficult at best to follow. Possible to follow if you go word by word and follow what they have to say exactly. But the pictures and the words don't seem to match, entirely, and that makes it difficult to get the pleats in front to look good. Eventually, I ended up trying not to pay attention to the pictures unless I had to. I also pulled out a pair of professionally made hakama and examined the pleats in those. I also watched the Seven Samurai and durn near wore a hole in portions of the tape trying to get a better view of the clothes to figure it out. Pleats are a new concept to me, especially the kind in this pattern. I'll certainly use the pattern again. And keep in mind my sewing expertise (or lack thereof), but if my problems help anyone, then I am glad to have shared it here. Regards, Gaylin (SCA: Jasmine, Iasmin de Cordoba) gwalli@infoengine.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 10:59:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17050 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04871; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14526 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:13:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14500 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991019161344.SGWS22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:13:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:14:33 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991019161344.SGWS22951.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Having travelled in those areas and in Bhutan and Nepal.... and I am also in the process of going back... I find that it is not a problem of *being clean* or of *dirty natives* but a problem of a diferent way of life where people often oil their bodies in very cold weather and where they wear things that are not washable. They do not have the pre-occupation we do with what *we* consider clean. It is not possible for a person who has not been there to imagine. I do not blame the people who made the film for the way it was presented because it was made for us as an audience. The applies also to the film *City of Joy* which I enjoyed thoroughly and saw just after I had returned to the US from India... but I found it incredibly clean as well. I have found in India, China and the border states that people bathe often and are very particular about themselves to whatever extent they can be. But their surroundings do not reflect this. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: " Firefly" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) >Date: Tue, Oct 19, 1999, 5:38 AM > > >-Poster: " Firefly" > >Of course Tibetans washed their clothes! Clean clothes were held in high regard and would have been entirely appropriate among the Llasa elite. If you look at Heinrich Harrer's book of photos of pre-occupation Tibet, everyone looks clean--real evidence that the notion of "dirty natives" is much more stereotype than actual truth. > >Mary >--- >Visit my homepage: >http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly > >On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:08:46 R.L. Shep wrote: >> >>-Poster: "R.L. Shep" >> >>I am afraid that the costuming in *7 Years in Tibet* put me off because >>everything was so CLEAN. They may be authentic in the ultimate sense but >>not in the practical sense. >>~!~ R.L.Shep >>http://www.rlshep.com >> >>---------- >>>From: AlbertCat@aol.com >>>To: h-costume@indra.com >>>Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) >>>Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 5:52 PM >>> >> >>> >>>-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com >>> >>>In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:50:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>>susanf@netwiz.net writes: >>> >>><< >>> Didn't anyone else like Kundun and 7 Years in Tibet for the >>> costumes?? They were as authentic as possible and had real >>> Tibetans to correct them when they weren't. It's a way of life >>> that's lost -- it was nice to see it captured on film for a >>> little while. >>> >> >>>I know...we're so occidental! >>>No one's mentioned >>>Ran >>>or >>>The Last Emperor > > >HotBot - Search smarter. >http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 11:02:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17074 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:02:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05119; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15170 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:16:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15159 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991019163153.17188.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:31:53 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:31:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Thanks Karie! This is pretty much what I expected, but I figured I would ask anyway... Halloween, maybe... I do play NERO ( a live action roleplaying game) and play a gypsy in that, so it might be a good place to wear it... fantasy gypsies are so flamboyant. ;-) Either way, I fell in love with it... Thanks for the info! Sarah --- Karie Mitchell wrote: > > -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" > > >From: Sarah Toney > >Take a look at this: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 > > > >My question is, it is remotely "period" for any > >specific group of people in any specific time or is > it > >just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it > anyway, > >but I was curious... If I am going to spend that > much > >money on something I would like to know about it... > >Thanks! > >Sarah > > I am _not_ an expert, nor have very much information > regarding this type of > clothing. I bow to anyone else's more expert > opinions, whether they prove > me wrong or no. Having said that... > > It looks completely fantastic to me (ie fantasy, not > historical - although > it is a lovely costume!). The first giveaway is the > bare midriff. From my > meager learning from our Middle Eastern dance > troupes I have learned that > very little was bared on Middle Eastern woman, > except her forearms, and her > face/hair. As you travel further east, the more > covered she is. The baring > of the midriff occurred when dancers came west. > > The colors of the outfit are more like > chemical/metallic dyes (vs > organic/vegetable dyes). And the striped material > is ok but I don't think > it would have been used as ruffled trim on the > outfit. It doesn't look like > the outfits some of our SCA Middle Eastern Dancers > have done (the ones who > are more expert). It looks more like a Cabaret > outfit. > > Unfortunately, it is not a "traditional" Middle > Eastern dance costume, but > it is very pretty and I hope you get much use out of > it. (Perhaps for > Halloween?) > > Sincerely, > > Karie (AKA Allessandre) ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 11:08:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17086 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:08:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06017; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16515 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:21:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16497 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.132]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12680 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:19:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:19:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199910191619.JAA12680@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I don't think Susannah is currently on the list, but I seem to remember her saying that the owner of the store contents had been contacted by Christie's or one of the other big auction houses and was going to be putting the contents up for auction. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 11:14:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17104 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07309; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18554 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:29:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18546 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p49.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.49]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00712 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:29:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <380C9ECD.85C94546@mail.brightok.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:42 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Hoss References: <0.4dcaa8b2.253d4834@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders Good morning list, I remember as a kid seeing an empty (modern) coke bottle above Hoss's head as he was "dyeing" in the bunk house from flu or snakebite or bad costuming. I'm sure we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE likes to watch programs with us. At least I'm not as bad as my younger brother, he's a professional videographer! Master's degree and movie maker. No one is that obnoxious!!!! But talented. Costuming is like art, as in painting a scene. What does everyone else think? I enjoy the fantasy clothing as much as the actuate period costumes. In our vignettes I design the garments to fit the characters but also each total cast of the scene. I pushed a plum (gorgeous) silk on a girl because the emerald green outfit on the other sister took over the visual affect under the lights. The plum was perfect but not a color that I could find to be totally actuate. It was donated, 16 yards, the price was right. Thanks, Ninya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 11:20:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17116 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:20:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08291; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19865 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:34:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19857 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:34:12 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PGJ0WjsRn (4254) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c9ac1922.253df762@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:33:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/1999 11:49:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: << but who cares about uniforms, which would also be my comment on Last of The Mohicans by the way, >> The English uniforms on Mohicans came from paintings of the period & some of battles in the French Indian War. [I made Hayward's uniform but didn't pattern it. The coat had zero interfacings except for a bit of canvas at the top of the back pleats. James Acheson wanted it to "look & hang like just a piece of cloth"] There was much ado over blue or buff facings on the soldiers. The wool coats were thrown in the washing machine by the unbelievably incompetent Wardrobe Supervisor so they all are 3" shorter than originally planned. The French were done after James left. The horrible zigzag silver braid on Montcalm[sp] was there at the insistence of Michael Mann. It's source.....a children's book. Michael also wanted navy blue stockings on the soldiers. The Indian's suffered too. Before the Make Up Supervisor quit because of Mr. Mann, the Indians were bright with color. They were painted with what for all the world looked like sulfur or red clay in bear fat. Had I been a colonial and one of these braves jumped out from behind a tree, I'da messed my breeches! Michael thought they looked "like clowns". See Mr. Mann wanted to be Stanley Kubric and have his finger in all the department's pie. But he didn't do the research and insisted on foolish & incorrect whims being carried out. He did this with all departments. He cut down trees and brought them up to the 3rd floor shop so he could see what the colonials would look like in front of trees. He made us make a red, blue, yellow and green pannier gown each for Alice and Cora because he wouldn't know which color was right until they were on the set. I say, if you can't figure THAT out beforehand.....you have no business directing. If you can't decide....let an expert in the field do it for you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 11:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17166 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:44:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12083; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26204 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:59:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26186 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.132]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17232 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:57:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:57:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199910191657.JAA17232@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >See Mr. Mann wanted to be Stanley Kubric and have his finger in all the >department's pie. But he didn't do the research and insisted on foolish & >incorrect whims being carried out. He did this with all departments. He cut >down trees and brought them up to the 3rd floor shop so he could see what the >colonials would look like in front of trees. He made us make a red, blue, >yellow and green pannier gown each for Alice and Cora because he wouldn't >know which color was right until they were on the set Oh...My...God. I knew this guy was a bozo when I saw the film (Mankiller?) made from Red Dragon, the prequel to Silence of The Lambs, There's a scene in a police station where the background is an entire wall of sleek, classy looking file cabinets...none of which are labeled. "Let's see, I think 'Ax Murderers' is somewhere near the beginning, right?" Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17227 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17913; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06473 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:35:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06460 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([62.252.36.224]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991019173453.KPU13542.mta2-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: <00a201bf1a58$606f14c0$e024fc3e@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair Shirt? Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:34:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Re: Hair shirts They were made of horse hair (mane or tail) & each one was knotted so that there was a prickly spike digging into the skin of the wearer Ho hum Useless Info Inc. Emma ----- Original Message ----- From: Jessica Wilbur To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: H-COST: Hair Shirt? > > -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > Hello all, > > My mom asked if I knew what type of material hair shirts were made of in the Middle Ages. > Her guess was some type of unrefined animal hair, and I took that one step further to > guess maybe at a loosely spun wool. (A woolen as opposed to a worsted?) Does anyone > out there know for sure, or have another theory? We're just curious. > > Thanks! > --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:23:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17231 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17971; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06577 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06566 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([62.252.36.224]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991019173600.JKR242.mta4-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:36:00 +0100 Message-ID: <00a501bf1a58$6ce8bee0$e024fc3e@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <008301bf1674$65c09300$c2f4accf@e4c2n6> <3806267B.F67E240C@serv.net> <009601bf1696$808ea240$f826163f@pbc.adelphia.net> <3806616D.8788791@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Front lacing bodices Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:36:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Women without servants had to have front lacing bodices - it's too difficult to do up a back lacing bodice on your own. Useless Info Inc Emma ----- Original Message ----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 12:04 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Front lacing bodices > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > Granted the "wench" bodices aren't > > accurate but many of the bodices in these paintings do lace in the front. > > http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm > > > > I think I am confused. Aren't these "wench" bodices? How does a "wench" > > bodice differ from the ones shown in the paintings? > > Wandering off into opinion territory here. This is my opinion. The ladies in > these pictures are ladies with respectable jobs. They are not wenches. These > are not wench bodices. > > The wench bodices I am familiar with here in my neck of the woods (An > Tir/Seattle WA) lace tightly so that the edges of the fabric meet. The front > edges of the fabric doesn't meet in those pictues. And the in the More Family > portrait those front edges don't touch either. There is a good 5-6 inches of > stomacher showing under the laces. Wench bodices don't do this. Many, many > wench bodices here don't even cover the breasts but leave them hanging above or > outside of the bodice front, only the chemise (underwear) covering them for > modesty. Not very modest. Not what a respectable medieval woman would have > worn. Not in my opinion. Ergo, wench. > > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:24:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17236 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:24:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17803; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06166 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:34:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06150 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:34:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-36.s36.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.36]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA05040 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02b401bf1a58$915e8c00$24f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000a01bf1a4a$88bf3e40$33aca0d1@j9g8x8> Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:37:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > When I was a young teen, I created a costume from "Xanadu" complete with leg > warmers and roller skates!! My wedding gown was off the shoulders like the Xanadu dress. But I was married the year prior to the film. This movie really showed the big transition that was occuring in fashion in the late 70s. The costumes were that the end of disco, retro forties, glitter glam, and cowboy look, plus more. I love to watch it for the costumes and music. I love Olivia's 40s hairstyle and the dancers' zoot suits. Presently, I have not seen many women wearing the 40s hairstyles with the new retro 40s look (1990s version). I wonder why? The film was raked over the coals for the story. I checked IMD on the cast and crew for the film and not many of them have done anything to speak of, after this film. Its funny, almost all the songs from the film were hits. Who cares if the story was bad. The actors changed costumes frequently, so it gives you something to look at. Katie, my 8 y.o. and I love to pause the movie and look at certain costumes worn by the extras. Katie loves Grease, Titanic, and Austin Powers for the extras costuming. She will be watching a film and pauses it, then she starts screaming, "Mom come look at this outfit!" She wants one of those plastic/vinyl disco dresses from Austin Powers #1. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:25:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17249 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18439; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07385 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07378 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-67.vci.net [207.162.169.67]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06237 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:39:27 -0500 Message-ID: <380CAD91.EDE99A48@vci.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:42:42 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Medieval Horse and its Equipment for sale References: <199910191259.GAA01919@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Hi all Just a brief note to let you know that I have placed The Medieval Horse and Its Equipment up for bids on ebay. I bought it new with the other books, but don't need it as much as th others, since I have no horse! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=184483855 jb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:25:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17253 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:25:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18501; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07498 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07490 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:39:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991018152641.007abd30@pop.utulsa.edu> References: <199910181850.MAA19616@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:40:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Marc Carlson > >That means that unless better information turns up, it *could* be that >Norris screwed it up. > >Marc Marc, you are a wonder! This brings up a question I was going to ask but forgot to: Norris: In my new Christmas Dover catalog, they are offering up two or three Norris books, no titles of which I can remember. Is Norris one of the good witches or the bad witches? Is he worth the price of the book? I'm most interested in Elizabethan, Victorian and 1920-30's. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17257 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19173; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08482 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:43:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08472; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.44.228] (helo=DESIGN) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11ddIO-0004Bh-00; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:43:37 -0600 From: "Design" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: oriental dragon costume Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:39:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000801bf1a61$48eb6700$e42c46a6@DESIGN.alinco> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <0.c9ac1922.253df762@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Design" Does anyone know of a company or individual who sells or rents Oriental Parade Dragons? I'm looking for one that can be used on stage, not too big, but still impressive. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Kevin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:32:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17267 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:32:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19646; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09262 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:46:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09241 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FJV00E012ND30@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:45:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:45:13 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FJV00E032ND30@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.69 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu <"Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > >>"...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus >> auro textus circumdati, ..." >>"silken ornate garments, encircled (in the manner of a >>cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate >>garments, encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). >with golden made stuff". >Could it be: "ornamented silken vestments (or garments) >of gold woven cyclat" or even shorter: "golden >ornamented cyclat-silk garments"? Only if I rearranged all the words and took out the comma in the original sentance. I'll have to check with people who are better at Latin than I am to see if "-dibus" can be made to mean something like that. At best, it might mean "silken ornate garments, with golden made stuff in the manner of cyclas" Personally, I have nothing against that definition, mind you. I'm just not sure the words match it. (BTW, I have a friend who is attempting to proove that "blaut" was not a cut of garment, but similarly, simply made from "bliaut" (a kind of silk). If you have any suggestions of texts I might pass along to her, I'd appreciate it) >'Textus' is not 'made' but means specifically 'woven', >as the gold thread is woven through the silk. I don't know, I think that "golden made stuff" is a perfectly acceptable way to translate that, and neatly conveys the general obscurity of terms presented into English. For the record, "textus" means considerably more than just "woven". Cassell's Latin Dictionary: "Textus _a web_; hence _texture_, _structure_: TRANSF. of speach or writing, _mode of putting together_, _assembly_" Oxford Latin Dictionary: "1. Pattern or style of weaving; (concr) a woven fabric. b. (method of) plaiting or interlacing; (concr.) a piece of plaited work. 2. A method of joining or fitting together, make-up, structure (specifically in Epicurian philosophy) atomic conformation b. the point at wich the parts of a structure fit together. 3. The fabric made by joining the words together, the body of a passage." In any case, fabric that is woven through with gold, interlaced with gold, attached to the body of the garment with gold, or woven from nothing but golden threads are all "golden-made stuff". Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 12:45:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17278 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21559; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12209 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:57:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12197 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06781 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:02:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:02:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing In-Reply-To: <380BF0FE.E8271F1B@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > I've seen many posts about gap between the laces--both front and back--and am > > wondering how one keeps the corset from showing between the laces. > > The gap referred to is the one between the sides of the corset, not both the > corset and bodice. The reason you want a gap in the corset is to account for > variations in weight/water retention. The bodice shouldn't have a gap- it should > close completely. Whoops, wait.....if your corset is going to vary in size as you do, how do you get your bodice to close completely every time without overlapping sometimes? Or do you just wear different dresses on different days of the month? (not a serious suggestion, though it would be amusing...) mildly confused, Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:01:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17297 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:01:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24678; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16164 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16138 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-187.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.187]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA07611 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991019002731.00aaa100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:27:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) In-Reply-To: <008f01bf19c9$0887c660$263daccf@e4c2n6> References: <0.b18f8e76.253ccd1f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >--Can't think of the Name of the film but it was about an efficiency >expert and he had about thirteen children. The swimsuits were wonderful! I believe you mean "Cheaper by the dozen". I love that movie - it's such a fabulous story. ;) >--The Breakfast Club (they are making a new one), designer Marilyn >Vance-Straker Ack! You can't mean it?! Oooo, how could they? That movie really brings back high school for me... Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:15:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17307 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27217; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19518 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:29:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19508 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA11579; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380CB8EA.14611780@serv.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:31:07 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: <0.c9ac1922.253df762@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > He cut > down trees and brought them up to the 3rd floor shop so he could see what the > colonials would look like in front of trees. This is GROSS! What a jerk. Too bad the actors were too laid up to walk to the trees. > He made us make a red, blue, > yellow and green pannier gown each for Alice and Cora because he wouldn't > know which color was right until they were on the set. I say, if you can't > figure THAT out beforehand.....you have no business directing. If you can't > decide....let an expert in the field do it for you. What a schmoo. In the end though, I *love* the movie. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:28:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17321 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28916; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21932 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:38:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21920 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29656 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199910191836.LAA29656@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Front lacing bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:36 PM 10/19/1999 +0100, you wrote: > >-Poster: "emma smith" > >Women without servants had to have front lacing bodices - it's too difficult >to do up a back lacing bodice on your own. > I've never really bought this story. First of all, almost no one lived alone: there was always a sister, husband, aunt, fellow servant, etc around. I'm old enough to remember the dresses of the late 50's and early 60's, which were usually fitted and zipped up the back. They were near impossible to get into by one's self, at a time when very few people had servants. As for the question of the gap between lacings, and how one keeps one's undergarments from showing, I and most of the costumers I know always include a placket flap under the lacing. Yes, they're supposed to lace edge to edge, but the edges will tend to gap with movement. Not to mention that for most women, there are those days when one just doesn't want to, or can't, lace quite as tightly. Having a matching material under the laces makes this more comfortable and attractive. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17331 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01053; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25208 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:51:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25198 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:51:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.61]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA31149 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:49:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:49:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199910191849.LAA31149@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Cabaret (I bought six sets of false eyelashes and searched in vain for green nail polish) Auntie Mame! My parents saw it the night they conceived my sister, and believe me, it shows. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:38:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17335 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:38:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01306; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25501 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:52:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25491 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJV008BP5PFA9@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:51:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:01:52 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Norris (was cyclas sources (Terminology)) In-reply-to: <199910191829.MAA19557@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991019140152.007aad30@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >Norris: In my new Christmas Dover catalog, they are offering up two or >three Norris books, no titles of which I can remember. Is Norris one of >the good witches or the bad witches? Is he worth the price of the book? >I'm most interested in Elizabethan, Victorian and 1920-30's. Some people say one thing, others say other things. I would suggest that, like using him is sort of like cooking in lead pots. You can do it, and it probably won't hurt you any, but if you aren't very, very careful, things could get ugly. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:50:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17354 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:50:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03123; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28225 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:04:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28219 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17137 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380CC14A.9C822EC@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:06:50 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese hakama patterns References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Gaylin, We had a real pair to go by and my husband put ALL the points in his spread sheet. That must be why our volunteers didn't have your problems. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:05:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17427 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05121; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01958 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01949 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA27319 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21659 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:18:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:18:04 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > Whoops, wait.....if your corset is going to vary in size as you do, how do > you get your bodice to close completely every time without overlapping > sometimes? Or do you just wear different dresses on different days of the > month? (not a serious suggestion, though it would be amusing...) It is a problem...I like hooks and eyes for my bodices, and during certain days of the month they just ain't gonna fit unless I'm willing to lace my corset extra tightly. For upper-class garments, that may be what they did. It's a wonderful incentive not to gain weight. I do wear a petticoat bodies ( a petticoat with a sleeveless bodice attached) or a kirtle (undergown) beneath most of my outer gowns, doublets & skirts. That way, when my gown lacings don't quite match, you see nice-looking fabric beneath instead of corset lacings. Lacing is, of course, the most convenient size-adjuster for gowns. If your gown laces closed in the front, you can hide any gaps or overlaps with a stomacher pinned over the top. You can also have it lace at each side back or at the center back, where gaps aren't as noticeable. Or you can have the front edges of the gown several inches apart, and use the lacing as a decorative accent. When I lose weight as opposed to gaining it, I usually just pinch the excess at the side or side back of a gown and stitch it to fit. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:06:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17431 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05237; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:19:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02129 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:19:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02119 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00358 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 206-132-48-115.nas-1.SCF.primenet.com(206.132.48.115), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAvOaaFa; Tue Oct 19 12:19:28 1999 Message-ID: <04bc01bf1a66$4abab680$bc05dacf@com> From: "Kels" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #722 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kels" ><< but who cares about uniforms, which would also be my comment on Last of > The Mohicans by the way, >> > >The English uniforms on Mohicans came from paintings of the period & some of >battles in the French Indian War. [I made Hayward's uniform but didn't >pattern it. The coat had zero interfacings except for a bit of canvas at the >top of the back pleats. James Acheson wanted it to "look & hang like just a >piece of cloth"] There was much ado over blue or buff facings on the >soldiers. The wool coats were thrown in the washing machine by the >unbelievably incompetent Wardrobe Supervisor so they all are 3" shorter than >originally planned. The French were done after James left. The horrible >zigzag silver braid on Montcalm[sp] was there at the insistence of Michael >Mann. It's source.....a children's book. Well, the book was =awful=. For a scathing review of the book, complete with all of the mistakes pointed out, see the one done by Mark Twain. He hated the book and considered it an insult to intelligent readers. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17437 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06098; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03693 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:26:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03670 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:26:13 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6BPAa14300 (4072) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.37530eba.253e1fb2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:25:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/99 2:21:33 PM Central Daylight Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: > I do wear a petticoat bodies ( a petticoat with a sleeveless bodice > attached) or a kirtle (undergown) beneath most of my outer gowns, doublets > & skirts. If you please, when is/was it appropriate and common for a woman to wear a doublet? DaniG _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17452 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:16:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07080; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04931 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:30:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04919 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:30:57 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JNBa14300 (4561) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ab61132.253e20cc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:30:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << I'm sure we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE likes to watch programs with us. >> It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my ex-pilot husband! Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:22:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17467 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:22:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08118; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06423 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:36:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06404 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:36:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.ab61132.253e20cc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:37:10 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > ><< I'm sure > we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE >likes to > watch programs with us. >> > >It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my >ex-pilot husband! > >Nancy Or ER with a nurse! Done that, never again!! LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 14:26:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17475 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08891; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:40:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07564 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:40:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07555 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-117.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.117]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16750 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991019154316.00ab17c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:43:16 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing In-Reply-To: <0.37530eba.253e1fb2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >If you please, when is/was it appropriate and common for a woman to wear a >doublet? Certainly. The lower classes wore the fashions of their "betters" but, they were just made out of lower grades of fabric. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17576 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15336; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16294 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:12:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16260 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:12:39 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RCY0iqiY0 (3970) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f59ee337.253e2aa8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Do mixed-fiber fabrics dye evenly? I'm thinking of getting a batch of the silk-rayon devore/etched velvet from Dharma Trading and as I'm trying to figure out how much I want/need this question popped into my head. I know there might be an appearance of different shades due to the nap on the velvet, but does the silk ground match the rayon pile after dying? Am I just being silly? Or have I finally found my reason to go buy lots of the lovely velvet at G Street? --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:02:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17585 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:02:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15998; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17047 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:15:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.27]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17028 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goober ([207.193.32.137]) by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with SMTP id <0FJV00DCC9KUUE@mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:15:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:06:14 -0700 From: Maleah Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <00e201bf1a7f$b4072880$0101a8c0@goober> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 References: <19991019153944.82803.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Maleah Greetings, Here is what I have learned in my time as a Middle Eastern dancer within the SCA. Bare midriffs are absolutely taboo. The stomach is considered the seat of the next generation and is therefore holy. It is still a crime in Egypt today for which a woman can be put to death!!! Hence the cabaret dancers use of the fishnet body stockings, not technically a bare tummy!!! Modesty was a very important virtue and most (not all) dancing was done in the harem, by women for women. The coin jewelry so common to the tradition was earned when a woman danced on the street to earn her dowry. Once she had it she never danced in public again. These are only what I have gleaned in my time as a dancer. If anyone has any further or conflicting information I would love to hear about it. I'll stop learning when they cover over with sod. Maleah maleah@swbell.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Karie Mitchell To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:39 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > > -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" > > >From: Sarah Toney > >Take a look at this: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 > > > >My question is, it is remotely "period" for any > >specific group of people in any specific time or is it > >just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it anyway, > >but I was curious... If I am going to spend that much > >money on something I would like to know about it... > >Thanks! > >Sarah > > I am _not_ an expert, nor have very much information regarding this type of > clothing. I bow to anyone else's more expert opinions, whether they prove > me wrong or no. Having said that... > > It looks completely fantastic to me (ie fantasy, not historical - although > it is a lovely costume!). The first giveaway is the bare midriff. From my > meager learning from our Middle Eastern dance troupes I have learned that > very little was bared on Middle Eastern woman, except her forearms, and her > face/hair. As you travel further east, the more covered she is. The baring > of the midriff occurred when dancers came west. > > The colors of the outfit are more like chemical/metallic dyes (vs > organic/vegetable dyes). And the striped material is ok but I don't think > it would have been used as ruffled trim on the outfit. It doesn't look like > the outfits some of our SCA Middle Eastern Dancers have done (the ones who > are more expert). It looks more like a Cabaret outfit. > > Unfortunately, it is not a "traditional" Middle Eastern dance costume, but > it is very pretty and I hope you get much use out of it. (Perhaps for > Halloween?) > > Sincerely, > > Karie (AKA Allessandre) > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17606 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21307; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22444 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22426 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02448 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23707 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:38:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:38:00 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Front lacing bodices In-Reply-To: <199910191836.LAA29656@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > > >Women without servants had to have front lacing bodices - it's too difficult > >to do up a back lacing bodice on your own. Although it's true that, in the 16th century, lower class bodices appear to have fastened up the front more frequently than they did the back, I don't think it's impossible to lace up a back-laced corset or bodice on one's own. I have back-lacing gowns, corsets & bodices that I lace loosely, pull over my head, and pull the lace tight on. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17610 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22288; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:42:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23581 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23571 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02739 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23837 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:42:28 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing In-Reply-To: <0.37530eba.253e1fb2@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > If you please, when is/was it appropriate and common for a woman to wear a > doublet? In the 1580s and onward, women's high-necked bodices could imitate men's doublets in form & cut. They were worn with skirt, but were quite similar to men's doublets in all other respects. > > DaniG > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 16:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17726 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:22:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01763; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06538 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:35:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06524 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:35:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6CDMa13073 (4339) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.dd7ddf6.253e3db0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:33:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costume Designers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Haven't seen "Velvet Goldmine" yet. "I didn't think the costumes in "Wings of the Dove" were exaggerated (I drooled a lot), nor in "Michael Collins" but they were both on 20th century topics. Maybe she just does it to earlier periods. I thought the costumes from "Orlando" were wonderful, but not particularly realistic, but then neither was the story, so I don't offer a criticism about that film. But in movies that are supposed to be realistic ("Rob Roy"), as opposed to fantastic ("Interview" or "Orlando"), I would like to see more realistic, accurate costumes. She obviously knows her stuff. I'd just like her to prove it occasionally. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 16:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17736 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:39:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04981; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11414 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:52:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11398 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:52:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DZAa23737 (4339) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b7095555.253e420c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:52:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com In costume terminology and really strange misinterpretations of the clothing itself, one must look to Violette-le-Duc in the 1800s (as a clothing historian, he was a terrific architect). Earlier 20th century costume historians (possibly Norris, since I see some of V-l-D's weird drawings copied in his books) continued the practices and terminology begun by him. Only in the latter part of the 20th century did we get clothing historians who did ORIGINAL research. As much as I like Norris and appreciate him for being one of the first clothing historians who wasn't totally off the wall, he was a product of his age. If you want a real laugh, read Doris Lester (cne't remember the title). Maybe we should look at Violette-le-Duc's dictionary of medieval clothing (in French of course) as a possible source of misinformation and dubious terminology. Henk, what's your take on this? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:31:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17809 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:31:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12439; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28266 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:45:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28226 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:45:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FAGkr9Di_ (3864) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c77a4970.253e4e4a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:44:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/99 11:53:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Cabaret (I bought six sets of false eyelashes and searched in vain for green nail polish) >> Like Margo I'm a Fosse Fan. I also love the costumes in Sweet Charity. Now here is my list: Any Merchant Ivory Film (especially Room With A View} Sabrina GWTW Now Voyager Dangerous Liaisons Westward the Women (The Tablecloth sequence at the end slays me!} Silk Stockings (I love the hidden clothes dance number} Funny Face The Three Musketeers Dangerous Beauty Elizabeth Excalibur ( I know it's bull but I still have a jones for that mesh wedding veil} Flesh & Blood Plus a gajillion more. I just had to chime in on this. Cheers!! Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:49:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17857 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:49:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15342; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02848 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:02:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02826 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:02:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA18112 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:32:42 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA24939; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:32:42 +0930 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:32:40 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > > -Poster: Lynn Downward > > >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > > > ><< I'm sure > > we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE > >likes to > > watch programs with us. >> > > > >It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my > >ex-pilot husband! > > > >Nancy > > Or ER with a nurse! Done that, never again!! > These are nothing at all compared to watching a film with a physicist! I drive my husband crazy *grin* Especially SF films....:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:55:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17870 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:54:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16186; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:09:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04256 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:09:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04230 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA18114 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:39:15 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA21426; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:39:14 +0930 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:39:14 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) In-Reply-To: <0FJV00E032ND30@vega.utulsa.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 marc-carlson@utulsa.edu wrote: > > -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu > > > <"Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > > >>"...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus > >> auro textus circumdati, ..." > >>"silken ornate garments, encircled (in the manner of a > >>cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate > >>garments, encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). > >with golden made stuff". > >Could it be: "ornamented silken vestments (or garments) > >of gold woven cyclat" or even shorter: "golden > >ornamented cyclat-silk garments"? > > Only if I rearranged all the words and took out the > comma in the original sentance. I'll have to check with > people who are better at Latin than I am to see if > "-dibus" can be made to mean something like that. Well you can with Latin. Since the inflectional endings are supposed to convey the meaning you more or less write the words any way round you like. However, mediaeval Latin is not classical Latin by any stretch of the imagination so YMMV (as the comma probably indicates). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17877 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:57:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16595; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04883 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:11:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04877 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from doodle.excite.com ([199.172.153.125]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991019230537.MKOM3796.fortune.excite.com@doodle.excite.com> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:05:37 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Message-Id: <940374338.16190.134@excite.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:05:38 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > I LOVE the Buccaneers!! Tess of the D'Urbervilles had some Beautiful clothes in it as well. I've been watching the Masterpiece theatre version of Aristocrats (3 part series, part 3 on pbs next sunday night) and I'm not sure about how authentic they are, but the costumes are beautiful, and plenty of them to be seen. I've been avidly watching the Aristocrats as well, and taking note of all the details. A question, though, for those who are also watching this. Is the women's hair correct? The one curl falling down Sara's neckline and the short, close curls on (I forget her name) the oldest daughter from the sister (brain gaffed on her name, too, darn it!) in Ireland seem to bother me a bit, but I can't put my finger on why. Any thoughts? Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:02:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17892 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:02:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17163; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05879 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:16:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-firewall.phoenix.com (scl-firewall.phoenix.com [134.122.7.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05837 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPV9W1>; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:16:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781E9DB4@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Terminology: CYCLAS Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:16:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA05871 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >>>Here we are. Matthew of Paris, in describing the wedding and coronation >>>of Eleanor to Henry III in 1236 "...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus >>>auro textus circumdati, ..." Well, hmm. After checking with my Latin >>>resources, this looks like *either* "silken ornate garments, encircled (in >>>the manner of a cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate >>>garments, >>>encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). with golden made stuff". I'm >>>thinking the former. >>> >>>That means that unless better information turns up, it *could* be that >>>Norris screwed it up. One possible source of the confusion in terminology... Robert Estienne's 1552 _Dictionarium Latinogallicum_ "cyclas" "Cyclas, cycladis, pen. corr. foe. gen. Iuuenal. Un grand manteau delié à usage de femme, trainant. Robbe à femme ronde par bas, et sans queue. " Rough translation of the 16th c French: A large, untied/unbelted coat typically used by women, trained. Woman's dress lower portion round and without a train. 'Fraid I missed the original question & the Norris quotation, so I dont know what timeframe & locale the list poster was discussing. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:07:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17899 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:06:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17723; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06917 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:21:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06904 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goochy.excite.com ([199.172.152.233]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991019231521.MDRF9301.gigi.excite.com@goochy.excite.com> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:15:21 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) Message-Id: <940374919.20229.512@excite.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:15:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > ><< I'm sure > > we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE > >likes to > > watch programs with us. >> > > > >It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my > >ex-pilot husband! > > > >Nancy > > Or ER with a nurse! Done that, never again!! As a dyed-in-the-cowhide farm girl from Kansas, I have a hard time watching westerns. Some of the stuff in the background is pretty jarring, like the wrong kind of flora for the area, or blooming plants in the dead of winter. Bonnet styles are a sticking point as well (to bring this back to the list's purpose.) Seems some directors figure a bonnet is a bonnet is a bonnet, and any old thing will do. NOT! One old film had a cattle stampede, which did happen from time to time, but these cattle were not on the trail, they were in a pen. And there was no lightening strike, rattlesnake or anything else to set them off. They just started running. Which cattle do NOT do, they are fairly placid beasts. And lazy. Well, if you were bred for rapid weight gain and had all the food you needed right there handy, would you want to go jogging on a whim? Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:13:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17912 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18666; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08062 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:27:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08043 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:27:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6MAJa17430 (4386) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.264d8af8.253e583a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:26:50 EDT Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/99 11:23:21 PM !!!First Boot!!!, stitchwitch@excite.com writes: << Well, if you were bred for rapid weight gain and had all the food you needed right there handy, would you want to go jogging on a whim? Kate >> Not if I can help it. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:18:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17958 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:18:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19425; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08890 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:32:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08878 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:32:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:32:47 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> >> -Poster: Lynn Downward >> >> >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com >> > >> ><< I'm sure >> > we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE >> >likes to >> > watch programs with us. >> >> > >> >It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my >> >ex-pilot husband! >> > >> >Nancy >> >> Or ER with a nurse! Done that, never again!! >> >These are nothing at all compared to watching a film with a physicist! >I drive my husband crazy *grin* >Especially SF films....:-) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, >Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" >and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson >friendly substance. You win, Claire. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:34:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17991 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21240; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11340 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:46:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11326 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991019234653.BOPL23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:46:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:50:34 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991019234653.BOPL23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have seen belly dancers in Egypt. Yes they are covered up. And they are usually heavier than we would think a belly dancer would be. I remember reading an Egyptian novelist who was talking about a woman walking down the street and praising her buttocks and how big they were and the fact that they rolled when she walked. I have also seen belly dancers in strickter muslim countries and they are even more covered up. In fact neither in Egypt nor in other countries have I ever seen a woman wear a body stocking....they really are covered. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Maleah >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers >Date: Tue, Oct 19, 1999, 3:06 PM > > >-Poster: Maleah > >Greetings, > Here is what I have learned in my time as a Middle Eastern dancer within >the SCA. Bare midriffs are absolutely taboo. The stomach is considered the >seat of the next generation and is therefore holy. It is still a crime in >Egypt today for which a woman can be put to death!!! Hence the cabaret >dancers use of the fishnet body stockings, not technically a bare tummy!!! >Modesty was a very important virtue and most (not all) dancing was done in >the harem, by women for women. > The coin jewelry so common to the tradition was earned when a woman >danced on the street to earn her dowry. Once she had it she never danced in >public again. > These are only what I have gleaned in my time as a dancer. If anyone has >any further or conflicting information I would love to hear about it. I'll >stop learning when they cover over with sod. > >Maleah >maleah@swbell.net >----- Original Message ----- >From: Karie Mitchell >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:39 AM >Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > > >> >> -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >> >> >From: Sarah Toney >> >Take a look at this: >> > >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182283185 >> > >> >My question is, it is remotely "period" for any >> >specific group of people in any specific time or is it >> >just a "fantasy" makeup? I'm going to buy it anyway, >> >but I was curious... If I am going to spend that much >> >money on something I would like to know about it... >> >Thanks! >> >Sarah >> >> I am _not_ an expert, nor have very much information regarding this type >of >> clothing. I bow to anyone else's more expert opinions, whether they prove >> me wrong or no. Having said that... >> >> It looks completely fantastic to me (ie fantasy, not historical - although >> it is a lovely costume!). The first giveaway is the bare midriff. From >my >> meager learning from our Middle Eastern dance troupes I have learned that >> very little was bared on Middle Eastern woman, except her forearms, and >her >> face/hair. As you travel further east, the more covered she is. The >baring >> of the midriff occurred when dancers came west. >> >> The colors of the outfit are more like chemical/metallic dyes (vs >> organic/vegetable dyes). And the striped material is ok but I don't think >> it would have been used as ruffled trim on the outfit. It doesn't look >like >> the outfits some of our SCA Middle Eastern Dancers have done (the ones who >> are more expert). It looks more like a Cabaret outfit. >> >> Unfortunately, it is not a "traditional" Middle Eastern dance costume, but >> it is very pretty and I hope you get much use out of it. (Perhaps for >> Halloween?) >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Karie (AKA Allessandre) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18006 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22371; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13269 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:57:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13253 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn159.usr-tc1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.249.219]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17467 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <003901bf1a8d$6a5c2d80$dbf9a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <0.264d8af8.253e583a@aol.com> Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:55:19 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Brings to mind the lovely orange Brucellosis tag I once saw on the ear of a calf in a "Little House" episode......... Liadain > << Well, if you were bred for rapid weight gain and had all the food you > needed right there handy, would you want to go jogging on a whim? > > Kate >> > > > Not if I can help it. > > Chas > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 19:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18039 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:01:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24112; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16421 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:15:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16403 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-62.s62.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.62]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id UAA13625 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010901bf1a90$80e705e0$3e4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Costume & Film list Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:17:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I started a new list called FilmCostumes, you may join the list by going to www.onelist.com, and search with the keyword FilmCostumes (combined the two words). You may discussed all types of costumes in film from historic to sci-fi. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 19:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18097 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:43:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28753; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23204 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:56:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23193 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:56:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SCK0Tcch_ (4159) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.daf45a65.253e6d29@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:56:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com I jst thought of 2 more: Oscar & Lucina....brilliant! The French Lt.'s Woman.....very wonderful late 1860s.... aniline plaids & Merrill Streep looking like a Homer painting near the end. Also interesting because you see the actors in their 20th century incarnations as well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 19:48:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18110 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29331; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24126 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:02:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24112 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:02:41 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RWAa01794 (4159) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3c84ebe8.253e6e93@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:02:11 EDT Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/1999 7:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hardcorps@vcn.com writes: << Brings to mind the lovely orange Brucellosis tag I once saw on the ear of a calf in a "Little House" episode......... >> How about the episode where ther building a spare room....with milled salt treated lumber and stud walls centered at 18" [16?"]. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 19:55:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18119 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00402; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25358 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:10:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25349 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24486 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:09:10 -0400 Message-ID: <380D1639.59760A5C@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:09:22 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Watching films with experts /costumes References: <940374919.20229.512@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue StitchWitch wrote: > westerns. Some of the stuff in the background is pretty jarring, like the > wrong kind of flora for the area, Ya, after 7 years of living in California, I think I can spot a "it's supposed to be Italy but we're filming in Northern California because it's cheaper" situation. But to bring this back to costumes, I really enjoy seeing historical costumes pop up in science fiction. There was a colony of klingons that showed up in roughly 1300s garb on Star Trek (the one where they did an extended holodec simulation to let them "escape" to another safe haven), and another which seemed to have peasant-1800s garb (the prot-vulcans). Plenty of others; those are the ones that spring to mind. cv -- "Oh bother," said the Borg, "We've assimilated Pooh." (source unknown, alas) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 20:12:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18150 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02519; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27626 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:26:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27613 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-33-193.stk.inreach.net [209.142.33.193]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15468 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380D1963.C60D740A@inreach.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:22:43 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <0.f59ee337.253e2aa8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H AnnoraK@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com > > Do mixed-fiber fabrics dye evenly? I'm thinking of getting a batch of > the > silk-rayon devore/etched velvet from Dharma Trading and as I'm trying > to > figure out how much I want/need this question popped into my head. I > know > there might be an appearance of different shades due to the nap on the > > velvet, but does the silk ground match the rayon pile after dying? Am > I just > being silly? Or have I finally found my reason to go buy lots of the > lovely > velvet at G Street? Dear Jen, This isn't a stupid question at all! And the answer is that it depends on the fibers and the dye that you use. In the instance of your proposed fabric, all I can say is that silk takes dye very, very well. I am not as sure about rayon but I seem to remember that it takes pretty well. And I have had good success with Rit dye on just about everything. There are other commercial "cold" dyes in some fabric stores but I don't think that they work very well. It seems to me that unless you are trying to *cover up* a color you shouldn't have too much of a problem with these fabrics dyeing similarly. If you are merely darkening a color or trying to blend colors (i.e. adding blue to an already red fabric to get purple) it should work out fine. But, as always, you should do a test swatch to see what you will get and if you will like it afterwards. Good luck and let us know how it goes! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 20:25:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18174 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03908; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29808 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:40:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29794 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:40:10 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6APIu8gqQ_ (3993) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ca499e94.253e7754@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:39:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I don't think Susannah is currently on the list, but I seem to remember her saying that the owner of the store contents had been contacted by Christie's or one of the other big auction houses and was going to be putting the contents up for auction. And also, when she contacted me directly (several months ago) she told me there weren't any silk stockings after all. So don't get your hopes up. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 20:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18184 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04498; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00567 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:44:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00561 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:44:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JJG0POI9u (3993) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d3379c18.253e7875@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:44:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Different fibers do take dyes differently. This is the principle of CROSS-DYING, where two (or more) different types of fibers take the dye differently and give a multicolored result. But silk and rayon should take the dye similarly, even though silk is protein and rayon is cellulose. Silk takes dyes beautifully, and, because of its amorphous structure, rayon does too. But you probably want to try a sample first. But, as you pointed our, voided velvet is going to have some color shading anyway because of the pile/ground differences. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 21:04:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18281 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:04:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08380; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06079 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:19:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from yucc.yorku.ca (ioana@yucc.yorku.ca [130.63.82.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06059 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ioana@localhost) by yucc.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21374 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:18:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:18:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Bellydance In-Reply-To: <199910200015.SAA16494@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ioana Timariu Now that's a subject close to my heart... :) I have a question: I'm learning about the history and the costume of dancers from Middle East from a book by Wendy Bunoventura, "Serpent of the Nile". Does anybody know how historically accurate she is? What other books do you recommend on this subject? -ioana > > From: "R.L. Shep" > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:50:34 -0700 > Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > > - -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I have seen belly dancers in Egypt. Yes they are covered up. And they are > usually heavier than we would think a belly dancer would be. I remember > reading an Egyptian novelist who was talking about a woman walking down the > street and praising her buttocks and how big they were and the fact that > they rolled when she walked. > I have also seen belly dancers in strickter muslim countries and they are > even more covered up. > In fact neither in Egypt nor in other countries have I ever seen a woman > wear a body stocking....they really are covered. > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 22:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18380 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13622; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13338 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:08:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13332 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.166.10]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991020030805.DYQZ20426@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <380D319A.CA4A96E6@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:06:03 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > > I've seen many posts about gap between the laces--both front and back--and am > > > wondering how one keeps the corset from showing between the laces. > > > > The gap referred to is the one between the sides of the corset, not both the > > corset and bodice. The reason you want a gap in the corset is to account for > > variations in weight/water retention. The bodice shouldn't have a gap- it should > > close completely. > > Whoops, wait.....if your corset is going to vary in size as you do, how do > you get your bodice to close completely every time without overlapping > sometimes? Or do you just wear different dresses on different days of the > month? (not a serious suggestion, though it would be amusing...) Well, different costumes are always a solution ;-) but I'd recommend having a placket in the bodice to account for any minor swelling. If we're talking major weight gain, make new costumes. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 22:53:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18480 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19318; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22209 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:07:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22202 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:07:33 -0600 (MDT) From: IroadkillI@aol.com Received: from IroadkillI@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LNJa15805 (4558) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.a3a40146.253e99de@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:06:54 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: hoss To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: IroadkillI@aol.com In a message dated 10/19/1999 5:36:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: << I'm sure we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO ONE likes to watch programs with us. >> I don't know about that, when Gandhi came out I had the chance to watch it with the Dean of International University in the Philippines who was from that part of India and his comments and asides during the movie were great. Currently I have a couple of costuming friends that I try to see every historical movie with. The only drawback is the reeltime critiques result in laughter in unexpected places in the movie, so maybe they're actually hysterical rather than historical movies. Paul _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:38:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18566 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22760; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28102 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:52:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28091 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-99.radiks.net [206.29.243.101]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA01441 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:50:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991019235136.03d83f7c@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:51:36 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: film costumes (well, TV, but...) In-Reply-To: <199910200015.SAA16494@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger This is TV, but it's historical, so.... What about one of my favorite shows, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman? I realize that her attitudes would not have been the norm at that time period, but what about the clothes? Women's in particular? As far as I could tell, they at least were all somewhat corsetted. You do get to see the underwear in some episodes. There was one two-parter about midway thru the series run when the family went to Washington DC to get a pardon or something for Sully. In the course of the two episodes, there were THREE White House balls - talk about acres of hoopskirts! I'm interested in the opinions of those who know - as opposed to yours truly who mostly does fantasy stuff. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:38:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18570 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:38:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22759; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28171 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28166 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goober ([207.193.32.169]) by mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with SMTP id <0FJV006GAXKH9K@mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:53:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:55:21 -0700 From: Maleah Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <004a01bf1ac8$1478b6a0$0101a8c0@goober> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 References: <19991019234653.BOPL23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Maleah Glad to hear from someone who's seen first hand. The info I have came from several videos taken by my teacher while at a cabaret in Cairo. I definitely saw body stockings but that has been at least 10-12 years ago and from what my Lebanese friends tell me things have gotten much more conservative all over the region since then. When I dance in the SCA if you can see more than my forearms and head, then you've crawled in my clothes with me. Down Chas. now is not the time to check my seams. Maleah ----- Original Message ----- From: R.L. Shep To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:50 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I have seen belly dancers in Egypt. Yes they are covered up. And they are > usually heavier than we would think a belly dancer would be. I remember > reading an Egyptian novelist who was talking about a woman walking down the > street and praising her buttocks and how big they were and the fact that > they rolled when she walked. > I have also seen belly dancers in strickter muslim countries and they are > even more covered up. > In fact neither in Egypt nor in other countries have I ever seen a woman > wear a body stocking....they really are covered. > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18576 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23146; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:57:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28766 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:57:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28753 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:57:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NRWa22485 (3702) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.9327e36b.253ea594@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:56:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/99 4:54:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, maleah@swbell.net writes: << Glad to hear from someone who's seen first hand. The info I have came from several videos taken by my teacher while at a cabaret in Cairo. I definitely saw body stockings but that has been at least 10-12 years ago and from what my Lebanese friends tell me things have gotten much more conservative all over the region since then. When I dance in the SCA if you can see more than my forearms and head, then you've crawled in my clothes with me. Down Chas. now is not the time to check my seams. Maleah >> Dern..here I thought would have been the perfect opportunity for a seam chack..You do realize Maleah that when I see you in middle eastern from here on out I am going to have some interesting comments. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18585 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:48:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23592; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA29398 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:02:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29384 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:02:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6UUVa02562 (4440) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:02:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d5a2c6ad.253ea6df@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:02:23 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com I remembered another one too. Murder on the Orient Express. Love the train station scene. Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 00:37:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18672 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:37:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26779; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05153 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:50:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA05145 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27700 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 05:50:14 -0000 Received: from 31.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.31) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 05:50:14 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991019225152.3befff66@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: film costumes (well, TV, but...) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:51 PM 10/19/99 -0500, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > >-Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > >This is TV, but it's historical, so.... > >What about one of my favorite shows, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman? > >I realize that her attitudes would not have been the norm at that time >period, but what about the clothes? Women's in particular? As far as I >could tell, they at least were all somewhat corsetted. You do get to see >the underwear in some episodes. > >There was one two-parter about midway thru the series run when the family >went to Washington DC to get a pardon or something for Sully. In the >course of the two episodes, there were THREE White House balls - talk about >acres of hoopskirts! > >I'm interested in the opinions of those who know - as opposed to yours >truly who mostly does fantasy stuff. > >Sandy I have only seen one or two episodes (no TV at home). But my first impression was a blending of about 40 years of women's fashions into one show. The shirtwaist (modern term is blouse) and skirt combination became widespread in the 1890s. Large hoop skirts went out by the end of the 1860s. And the medical knowlege seemed a bit too advanced for the apparent time period. All in all, it's not historical, though the costumes are nice in their own way. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 02:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13931 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02905; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15872 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:52:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15866 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.21] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11dqXV-0006Ql-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:52:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991019144543.00c3b480@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:46:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: oriental dragon costume In-Reply-To: <000801bf1a61$48eb6700$e42c46a6@DESIGN.alinco> References: <0.c9ac1922.253df762@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Try places in San Francisco? Design writes, in a message sent 12:39 P 10/19/99 -0600: > >-Poster: "Design" > >Does anyone know of a company or individual who sells or rents Oriental >Parade Dragons? I'm looking for one that can be used on stage, not too big, >but still impressive. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. > >Kevin > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 03:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15208 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05569; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18121 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:18:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f156.hotmail.com [209.185.131.219]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA18115 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 30763 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 1999 08:18:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19991020081801.30762.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:18:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.58] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:18:00 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" David, Will do. The inventory has not yet been completed; will post a message to the group on the status when it has. Susannah >From: "David S. Mallinak" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Re: silk stockings >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:20:15 -0700 > > >-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > >Susannah Eanes wrote: > > > I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among > > other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk > > stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they > > have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an > > unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel > > pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for > > sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in > > finding out more, please e-mail me privately. > >I am just starting to clear my H-COST message when I say your offer. > >If it is not to late please add my name and address to those who are >interested > >David S. Mallinak >matchlck@erol.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 03:22:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15294 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06544; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19664 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:37:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f129.hotmail.com [209.185.131.192]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA19658 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3729 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 1999 08:36:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19991020083634.3728.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:36:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.58] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:36:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi again guys, After reading the other posts regarding this, I thought a quick update was in order. There have been several delays along the way; among them, the owner of the inventory leaving the country for several months without giving us instructions to go ahead and do the mail-out. There are about a dozen pairs of brown silk plain stockings, and maybe a half-dozen pairs of black patterned silk, and oooooodles of black woolen stockings. And lots of c. 1920 - 1940 argyles. Over 3,000 pairs of shoes c. 1890 - 1940. About 50 - 75 corsets c. 1890s - 1930s, mostly earlier rather than later. I have been back in contact with the owner, and expect to get this off my plate within the month, barring any major catastrophies. Christie's and a couple of very large dealers have expressed an interest, but that doesn't mean their bid for the contents of the store is going to be higher than anyone else's, or that their bids for the total contents will be higher than all bids on all the smaller lots combined. The owner will award the items to the highest bids, whether that be the combined bids from many people for many lots, or to one bidder for the total lot. It also depends on how much stuff is left over from all the combined bids... he wants to get rid of it all. I am still on the list, just pretty busy this time of year so in lurk mode... Susannah >>Susannah Eanes wrote: >> >> > I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among >> > other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk >> > stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they >> > have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an >> > unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel >> > pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for >> > sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in >> > finding out more, please e-mail me privately. >> >>I am just starting to clear my H-COST message when I say your offer. >> >>If it is not to late please add my name and address to those who are >>interested >> >>David S. Mallinak >>matchlck@erol.com >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 03:50:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15313 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07622; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA21980 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:04:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21967 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.164] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11drfa-00023I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:04:31 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991019154045.00c5bdc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:43:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies In-Reply-To: <0.c77a4970.253e4e4a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Sabrina >The Three Musketeers which versions? I haven't seen the latest version of Sabrina, but the costuming in the latest version of The Three Musketeers (while better than the acting/plot) didn't impress me. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 03:50:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15317 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07625; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA21984 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:04:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21972 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.164] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11drfc-00023I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:04:32 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991019154523.0092ad90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:50:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) In-Reply-To: <940374919.20229.512@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I watched some costume movie with my then husband the military buff. I could spot the flaws in the costumes, tho he couldn't, but if anything was wrong with the uniforms he could spot it, tho I couldn't. >> ><< I'm sure >> > we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and NO >ONE >> >likes to >> > watch programs with us. >> >> > >> >It must be as bad as watching any movie with an air plane in it with my >> >ex-pilot husband! >> > >> >Nancy >> >> Or ER with a nurse! Done that, never again!! > >As a dyed-in-the-cowhide farm girl from Kansas, I have a hard time watching >westerns. Some of the stuff in the background is pretty jarring, like the >wrong kind of flora for the area, or blooming plants in the dead of winter. >Bonnet styles are a sticking point as well (to bring this back to the list's >purpose.) Seems some directors figure a bonnet is a bonnet is a bonnet, and >any old thing will do. NOT! >One old film had a cattle stampede, which did happen from time to time, but >these cattle were not on the trail, they were in a pen. And there was no >lightening strike, rattlesnake or anything else to set them off. They just >started running. Which cattle do NOT do, they are fairly placid beasts. And >lazy. Well, if you were bred for rapid weight gain and had all the food you >needed right there handy, would you want to go jogging on a whim? My grandfather was a cowboy in the 1880's, and wrote some reminiscences about, among other things, cows, which I have read. He didn't know why they would 'want to go jogging on a whim', but he thought they did sometimes. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 07:15:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15600 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18258; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03893 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:29:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.1.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA03887 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [141.238.9.104] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.03.0018/1.aapi) with ESMTP id ra227543 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:27:30 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Carol Blanchard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:26:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <13273031306758@ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol Blanchard" > From: AnnoraK@aol.com > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:24 EDT > Subject: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question > To: h-costume@indra.com > Reply-to: h-costume@indra.com > > -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com > > Do mixed-fiber fabrics dye evenly? I'm thinking of getting a batch of the > silk-rayon devore/etched velvet from Dharma Trading and as I'm trying to > figure out how much I want/need this question popped into my head. I know > there might be an appearance of different shades due to the nap on the > velvet, but does the silk ground match the rayon pile after dying? Am I just > being silly? Or have I finally found my reason to go buy lots of the lovely > velvet at G Street? > > --Jen > _________________________________________________________________ This isn't a stupid question at all. Different fibres take various dyes differently. With this fabric you may have the best luck using a dye that is meant to deal with two types of fibres, protein (silk) and cellulose (rayon). That would be the household variety of union dye like RIT or TINTEX. Both these dyes are combination dyes containing both acid and direct dyes which is why they will color so much. The only problem with RIT is that you can't get really intense colors from it and it fades out under repeated washings. If you need an intense color you might test try an acid dye. They are meant for protein fibres (and don't take on cotton/linen at all) but might hold on a rayon. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 07:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15610 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18717; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05055 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:39:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05041 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:39:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EWKFAOcB_ (4253) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bcb80c03.253f11c3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:38:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/99 2:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << which versions? I haven't seen the latest version of Sabrina, but the costuming in the latest version of The Three Musketeers (while better than the acting/plot) didn't impress me. >> Sorry, I had forgotten the latest travesties (especially the remake of Sabrina}. I meant the Charleton Heston/Faye Dunnaway Musketeers & The Original Sabrina with the immortal Audrey Hepburn, _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 07:36:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15624 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19745; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06335 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:51:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06328 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-23.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.23]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id WAA08164 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:51:05 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910201251.WAA08164@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:39:23 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Good historicals? Umm... How about 'The Three Musketeers' (the real one with Oliver Reed, not the recent crappy cowboys on heat version). For strange, there's the Douglass Fairbanks Jr 'Sinbad the Sailor' - you can spend many entertaining hours trying to work out where Anthony Quinn got that perfectly cut jacket with shoulder padding and set sleeves. Sum'n say 'Orlando'? Well, nice chicks' movie, I suppose. By the way, as one with a bit in my brain about Georgian/Regency military, what is the word on the Hornblower TV series that has yet to show here...will I be spending my time or wasting it? -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 07:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15630 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20295; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07111 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:57:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA07103 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991020125756.22086.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:57:56 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:57:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > By the way, as one with a bit in my brain about > Georgian/Regency military, > what is the word on the Hornblower TV series that > has yet to show > here...will I be spending my time or wasting it? > I LOOOOOOOVED it... but I was watching it for the military stuff, not the costuming... It is... different from the old movie version, but good just the same... they put more emphasis on some of the subplot points which made it interesting... As for the costuming, I don't have any idea what is "right" and "wrong" in that time frame, so I thought they were pretty good. ;-) Sarah ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 08:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15740 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25074; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14228 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:47:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14213 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910201347.HAA14213@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 20834 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 07:47:31 -0600 Received: from ts26-41.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.155) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 07:47:31 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:55:33 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" My DH is an expert on Armor, weapons (all ages), ships, Aircraft (everything, but not so perfect in World War I). And I find that it is very interesting to watch anything with him. In fact we were watching Matrix the other day (cool costuming, by the way) and at some point we get a good look at an agent's gun. He says "What a great gun", I turn to him and say, "Desert Eagle?", he said, "Yes, but what caliber". Well I didn't get the caliber right, but that was because I was wondering how I knew what is was to begin with! I am also becoming pretty proficient at spotting Mustangs and Flying Fortresses, telling a battleship from a destroyer, fast attack sub from a boomer and I have even spotted armor flaws in movies. By the way, I asked him if there was a movie where he thought the armor was outstanding or even remotely accurate and he is still thinking about it. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 08:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15745 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25494; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15138 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:52:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15126 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:52:26 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20872 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:52:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26354 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:52:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:52:24 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings In-Reply-To: <0.ca499e94.253e7754@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Christi's does not have a category for textiles or clothing, could it be a different auction house? Under what name would the lots be under? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:39:32 EDT > From: AnnBWass@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: silk stockings > > > -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > > I don't think Susannah is currently on the list, but I seem to remember her > saying that the owner of the store contents had been contacted by Christie's > or one of the other big auction houses and was going to be putting the > contents up for auction. > And also, when she contacted me directly (several months ago) she told me > there weren't any silk stockings after all. So don't get your hopes up. > Ann Wass > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 09:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15788 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01396; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24822 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24809 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17627 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28342 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:30:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:30:31 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Article on Courtesans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Seeing as how there was such an overwhelming desire for the info on the article on Renaissance Courtesans I read ;), here it is: The article is one of three comprising a book on renaissance florence. The other two concern themselves with the social status of nuns and how it changed during the 15th century in Florence, and the other article was on the lives of widows in Florence during the 15th century. All three are based on statistics and documents from the Florentine archives. The book itself is a paperback, called The Women of Renaissance Florence: Power and Dependence in Renaissance Florence, by Richard Trexler. Published by Pegasus Press, ISBN:0866981578 You can buy it from Pegasus Press at http://www.pegasuspress.org Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 10:17:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15913 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:16:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08952; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06932 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06918 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:27:23 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OJa003805 (4186) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ddfde94.253f3927@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:26:31 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/1999 8:56:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: << Sum'n say 'Orlando'? Well, nice chicks' movie, I suppose. >> I know what you mean....zero drama. But the clothes may be the best thing about it. I love how when she's...er....a man the periods are sorta androgynous...Elizabethan & petticoat breeches. When she becomes a woman it's all corsets and hoops of some kind. Remember then she & a maid sorta "dance" around each other to get by that enormous pannier? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 10:34:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15929 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12686; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11987 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:45:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11967 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991020154529.HSSZ23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:45:29 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:48:25 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991020154529.HSSZ23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" We just had an *Arab Festival* here in Seattle and the belly dancers were all in folk costume - as opposed to night club dress - and they were very much covered up. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Maleah >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers >Date: Tue, Oct 19, 1999, 11:55 PM > > >-Poster: Maleah > >Glad to hear from someone who's seen first hand. The info I have came from >several videos taken by my teacher while at a cabaret in Cairo. I definitely >saw body stockings but that has been at least 10-12 years ago and from what >my Lebanese friends tell me things have gotten much more conservative all >over the region since then. > When I dance in the SCA if you can see more than my forearms and head, >then you've crawled in my clothes with me. Down Chas. now is not the time to >check my seams. > >Maleah >----- Original Message ----- >From: R.L. Shep >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:50 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > > >> >> -Poster: "R.L. Shep" >> >> I have seen belly dancers in Egypt. Yes they are covered up. And they >are >> usually heavier than we would think a belly dancer would be. I remember >> reading an Egyptian novelist who was talking about a woman walking down >the >> street and praising her buttocks and how big they were and the fact that >> they rolled when she walked. >> I have also seen belly dancers in strickter muslim countries and they are >> even more covered up. >> In fact neither in Egypt nor in other countries have I ever seen a woman >> wear a body stocking....they really are covered. >> ~!~ R.L.Shep >> http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 12:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16160 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:43:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05819; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15857 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:56:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15848 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Wed Oct 20 10:56:04 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:56:04 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.98 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Anna Karenina was on TBS (or was it tnt) the other night and there were alotof very pretty dresses in that movie as well, not sure but I think they are replaying it this week sometime. Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 13:27:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16274 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14069; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26552 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26533 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03723 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:40:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp238-21.worldonline.nl [195.241.238.21]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18125 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:40:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <009a01bf1b2a$732d7ac0$15eef1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <0FJV00E032ND30@vega.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:26:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi all, It was al about the following: > >>"...sericis vestimentis ornati, cicladibus > >> auro textus circumdati, ..." > >>"silken ornate garments, encircled (in the manner of a > >>cyclas) with golden made stuff" *or* "silken ornate > >>garments, encircled (in the manner of the Cyclades). > >with golden made stuff". > >Could it be: "ornamented silken vestments (or garments) > >of gold woven cyclat" or even shorter: "golden > >ornamented cyclat-silk garments"? > To which Marc replied: > Only if I rearranged all the words and took out the > comma in the original sentance. In medieval as well as classic Latin it is not unusual to rearrange words and so get different meanings of sentences. But I grant you; I'm no latinist. About the comma; is it really there in the original text? They did not have commas in the middel ages, as far as I know. At least not in the 13th c. > At best, it might mean "silken ornate garments, with > golden made stuff in the manner of cyclas" I could live with that. > > Personally, I have nothing against that definition, mind > you. I'm just not sure the words match it. (BTW, I > have a friend who is attempting to proove that "blaut" > was not a cut of garment, but similarly, simply made > from "bliaut" (a kind of silk). If you have any > suggestions of texts I might pass along to her, I'd > appreciate it) Belinda Sibly wrote in het article about the Bliaut in the SCA's Tournaments Illuminated, nr 109, winter 1993 that bliaut was a German word meaning a type of fabric, as does Lehnart in Kleidung und Waffen 1150-1320. The last ellaborates and writes that it is a fabric worked through with gold, called 'bliat'. He doesn't say it's silk, but says the cloth was imported from the orient and southern Europe later; so it's probably silk. > > >'Textus' is not 'made' but means specifically 'woven', > >as the gold thread is woven through the silk. > > I don't know, I think that "golden made stuff" is a > perfectly acceptable way to translate that, and neatly > conveys the general obscurity of terms presented into > English. For the record, "textus" means considerably > more than just "woven". > > Cassell's Latin Dictionary: > "Textus _a web_; hence _texture_, _structure_: TRANSF. > of speach or writing, _mode of putting together_, > _assembly_" > > Oxford Latin Dictionary: > "1. Pattern or style of weaving; (concr) a woven > fabric. b. (method of) plaiting or interlacing; (concr.) > a piece of plaited work. > 2. A method of joining or fitting together, make-up, > structure (specifically in Epicurian philosophy) atomic > conformation b. the point at wich the parts of a > structure fit together. > 3. The fabric made by joining the words together, the > body of a passage." Granted, but it originally meant and still means any stuff that's been crossed vertically and horizontally to make a kind of mesh as threads in a piece of cloth or sticks to make a fence. The later meanings are more figurative. > > In any case, fabric that is woven through with gold, > interlaced with gold, attached to the body of the > garment with gold, or woven from nothing but golden > threads are all "golden-made stuff". OK Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 13:27:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16275 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14046; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26573 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26548 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03724 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:40:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp238-21.worldonline.nl [195.241.238.21]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18130 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:40:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <009b01bf1b2a$7410d5e0$15eef1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <0.b7095555.253e420c@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:36:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi everybody, Kathleen wrote: > Maybe we should look at Violette-le-Duc's dictionary of medieval clothing (in > French of course) as a possible source of misinformation and dubious > terminology. > > Henk, what's your take on this? I heartily agree and have been doing that since 1996. His mistakes are being made again (in commission) by every beginning costume researcher, historian and costume book writer, because most of them don't do original research. and Viollet has been copied in every costumebook up till now. It's mostly rather easy to disqualify his drawings and texts. The first are often wrongly interpreted, so the texts write about things that were already wrongly copied in the first place. Most of the drawings, when you compare them to recent photo's of the same statues or with the original miniatures, show themselves as rather silly interpretations. Be careful people... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 13:28:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16285 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:28:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14630; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27057 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:42:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26995 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18729 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-59.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.59]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04540 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <013001bf1b2c$613a87c0$171ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: terminology Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:53:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF1AF1.B3B6B7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF1AF1.B3B6B7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Si non e vero, e ben trovato, huh? =20 Henk =20 Ok, I followed you until the point quote above...Italian. Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF1AF1.B3B6B7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Si non e vero, e ben trovato, = huh?
 
Henk
 
Ok, I followed you until the point = quote=20 above...Italian.
Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF1AF1.B3B6B7C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 13:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16297 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16421; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27962 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:46:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27931 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20376 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-59.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.59]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07358 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014f01bf1b2c$ea5652a0$171ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:57:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: "Broneske" > >When I was a young teen, I created a costume from "Xanadu" complete with leg >warmers and roller skates!! > > >Joan Broneske >unicorn@softcom.net And a brave person, indeed, to admit to that. And, which of Charlie's Angels was your favorite? ;) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 14:02:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16374 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:02:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21865; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:15:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04973 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:15:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04905 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02652 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-59.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.59]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28364 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <020101bf1b31$0a3d4c00$171ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:26:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >> > The gap referred to is the one between the sides of the corset, not both the >> > corset and bodice. The reason you want a gap in the corset is to account for >> > variations in weight/water retention. The bodice shouldn't have a gap- it should >> > close completely. >> >> Whoops, wait.....if your corset is going to vary in size as you do, how do >> you get your bodice to close completely every time without overlapping >> sometimes? Or do you just wear different dresses on different days of the >> month? (not a serious suggestion, though it would be amusing...) The corset is going to take all the stress so the bodice doesn't have to be skin tight. You can lace it so it meets, not overlapping and leave it a little loose. If the weight or water gain is so much that the bodice can't encompass you anymore, then chances are it is not going to fit in the armholes anymore, which can be so painful (unless you keep your shoulders back and don't move all day). Both of these garments, if fit correctly in the first place, can't adjust more than an inch or two and still fit correctly. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 14:38:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16408 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:38:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27450; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12965 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:50:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12956; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910201950.NAA12956@net.indra.com> From: "Andrew Clark" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrew Clark" -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MissMela@aol.com Sent: 12 September 1999 05:48 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress -Poster: MissMela@aol.com I am starting on a 17th or 16th (haven't found the right wool yet) 1895 Lancer's Full Levee Dress uniform for my husband but am having trouble locating the correct hat. I have pictures but do not know who sells them. Any help list? Miss Mela Dear Miss Mella. Dawn has passed your message on to me regarding lancer Czapska hats. I am currently manufacturing new pattern one for the Band of the Royal Lancer Regiment. I can supply an 1890 pattern Officer's Czapska at a figure of £650.00 excluding plate and cords. There is some difficulty regarding plate patterns and the exact lace, as these are difficult to obtain. I can also supply a 1902 regulation 17th Lancer Officers complete for 750.00. This is a more theatrical version using synthetic laces and two colour plating on the front plate, rather than the correct seperate peices of the original. Please let me know if these are of any interest to you and I can send further details and delivery times. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF1A75.D9584600 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Andrew Clark.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Andrew Clark.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Clark;Andrew;;Mr FN:Andrew Clark ORG:Military Metalwork TITLE:Owner TEL;WORK;VOICE:0181 580 2688 ADR;WORK:;;1 Almond Grove;Brentford;Middlesex;TW8 8NP;England LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:1 Almond = Grove=3D0D=3D0ABrentford, Middlesex TW8 8NP=3D0D=3D0AEngland EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:andrew@militarymetal.free-online.co.uk REV:19991005T200639Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF1A75.D9584600-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 16:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16571 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12013; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05735 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:20:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05726 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25942 invoked by alias); 20 Oct 1999 21:20:27 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 25936 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 1999 21:20:26 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 21:20:26 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991020161410.00973260@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:19:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: dye Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Rayon, although it is a "synthetic" fiber, is nevertheless made from plants, as are cotton, ramie and linen. They should all dye well with procion fiber reactive dyes. Protein, or animal, fibers such as silk and wool can also be dyed with fiber reactive dyes, BUT, they probably will not yield the exact same color on silk as on cotton. Acid dyes are intended for protein fibers, and must be steamed to be fast. A good source for procion dyes, and lots more interesting stuff, is Dharma. (No affiliation). http://www.dharmatrading.com Kim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 16:25:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16575 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:25:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13425; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08208 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:30:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08190 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.46]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991020212449.POXY7766.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:24:49 +0100 Message-ID: <380E9A11.6339@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:44:01 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: <0.c9ac1922.253df762@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/19/1999 11:49:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: > > << but who cares about uniforms, which would also be my comment on Last of > The Mohicans by the way, >> > > > figure THAT out beforehand.....you have no business directing. If you can't > decide....let an expert in the field do it for you. Doesn't surprise me in the least I'm a friend of Tim Pickles who was supposed to be military advisor on the film for all the notice that was taken of him so have heard the stories. When the bbc did the last version of Pride and Predudice they employed Colonel Walton a uniform historian who wanted me to make the uniforms, as I've been making them for museums for so long I'm now considered something of an expert apparently, however they then took no notice much to his bemusement and used the old wrong standards that had been lurking around Bermans since forever. Even on Sharpe which is about soldiers and which originally had Andrew Mollo as art director, and John Mollo (oscar for Star Wars) as designer who together with their brother Major Boris had one of the largest private military collections, the uniforms were wrong as the budget was so small that they had to take whatever was vaguely okay from Angels rather than what he wanted me to make, there are allsorts in there inc Charge of the light brigade Hussars . John didn't do the rest of the series'. He did do Hornblower and as he has several Royal Marine items he was determined to make sure at least one uniform was accurate so I made a handfinished prototype for the rest to be copied from. He was also responsible for Barry Lyndon and Revolution By the way no one has mentioned The Draughtsman's Contract which is one of the best 'designed' films IMHO as the clothing is also accurate In most cases. My favourite designers are Jim Aicheson who I worked with when at Berman's on Empire of the Sun just about his first film I think and Dangerous Liasons when I was at Angels although I escaped soon after he'd started on it which was a shame But he's a lovely man who came up through th ranks, and Bob Ringwood who is also not afraid to get in there and sew himself unlike most of the designers I've worked with dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 16:29:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16579 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13060; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08070 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08057 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.46]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991020212924.BPSR9410.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:29:24 +0100 Message-ID: <380E92D1.284A@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:13:05 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Watching films with experts (was Re: H-COST: Re: Hoss) References: <199910201347.HAA14213@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn K & J Hopkins wrote: > > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > ies.> > By the way, I asked him if there was a movie where he thought the armor was > outstanding or even remotely accurate and he is still thinking about it. > > Kathlene > > Excalibur is of course the greatest armoured movie there has been although alot of it was fantasy, but even until relatively recently The Royal Armouries and several of the UK's top armour experts (who happen to be pals) considered Henry V (the proper version not Branagh's attempt) to be the most accurately armoured film even though most of the plate was in fact cardboard due to anything metal having gone to the war effort as the shapes etc were correct. Of course the mail and akhetons in Zefferelli's Hamlet were excellent but then I would say that as I made them Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 16:30:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16589 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:30:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13059; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08107 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08087 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.46]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991020212931.BPTM9410.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:29:31 +0100 Message-ID: <380E9541.E6@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:23:29 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie "inspirations" References: <0.182b2bd2.253cc4dd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:48:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > allessandre@hotmail.com writes: > > << >Check out the 2 part Little Doritt....with Derek Jacobe & Alec >Guiness. > >All the clothes were actually made by hand. It took 2 years. > > Tell me more! Tell me more! Where, when, and the story! Please, please > (whimper, whimper!) > >> > > Calm....calm.... > > All I know is that the clothes were indeed hand made. We rented some for the > miniseries Queen and they were entirely hand sewn....down to the whipped > overcasting of raw seam allowances. If the hooks & eyes had been brass, I > would've thought they were very well preserved originals. > > I believe they were exhibited at the V&A after production. The film[s] looks > perfect. Every walk of life is represented. They were exhibited at the museum of London I have the catalogue and went to see them. The clothes were not only made by costume makers but they intrigued the locals so much that even the milkman got a look in and did some work. The actor/esses were not allowed to wear makeup either or have there hair 'done'. Dawn > > James Acheson only asks that leads & featured extras have all stitching & > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 16:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16593 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:32:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14807; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10228 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:38:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10208 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.46]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991020213349.PRBU7766.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:33:49 +0100 Message-ID: <380E9B73.513A@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:49:55 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress References: <199910201950.NAA12956@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Andrew Clark wrote: > > -Poster: "Andrew Clark" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of MissMela@aol.com > Sent: 12 September 1999 05:48 > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress > > -Poster: MissMela@aol.com > >Apologies from Andrew to the list for this mail not going privately. It's been a long week dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:15:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16656 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20584; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19943 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:19:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19934 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:19:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJX001OX9Y0HW@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:18:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:28:40 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) In-reply-to: <199910202130.PAA08224@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991020172840.007ac3a0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA19936 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > >In medieval as well as classic Latin it is not unusual to rearrange words >and so get different meanings of sentences. But I grant you; I'm no >latinist. About the comma; is it really there in the original text? They did >not have commas in the middel ages, as far as I know. At least not in the >13th c. Since I don't have the original text in hand, I'm afraid I couldn't tell you why the Great Britain Public Record Office chose to put the commas in their _Matthœi Parisiensis, monachi Sancti Albani Historia Anglorum, sive, ut vulgo dicitur, Historia minor. Item, ejusdem Abbreviatio chronicorum Angliœ_. All I can tell you is that they are there on the microfiche. >Belinda Sibly wrote in het article about the Bliaut in the SCA's Tournaments >Illuminated... Thank you, I'll pass that along for her consideration. >Granted, but it originally meant and still means any stuff that's been >crossed vertically and horizontally to make a kind of mesh as threads in a >piece of cloth or sticks to make a fence. The later meanings are more >figurative. I'll have to take your word for it. Obviously your knowledge of Latin exceeds mine. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:17:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16660 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21479; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:27:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21636 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:27:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21626 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial43.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.43]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA00923 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991020152744.0079d500@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:27:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: bodice lacing In-Reply-To: <380BDA4D.26AC@home.com> References: <0.36aa41a1.253c82b5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 07:41 PM 18/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >If the bodicee is boned and no corset is used is it alright to let the >boning channels (stiching) show on the outside? I have some light weight >bones that are too flexible, will it cause problems if I put 2 bones in >each channel? Putting 2 bones in each channel shouldn't cause a problem. I did this both with my Elizabethan corset, and my wench bodice. Just make sure that you put a bone casing in to protect the outer fabric, especially if it's not heavy canvas-like material. And of course, if you're using rigilene (evil stuff, but all that's available here [Langley, BC.. if you have another, non-mail order source, lemme know please!]) make sure you singe the ends of the bones so they don't work thru the fabric. *S* For my wench bodice, for the boning channels on either sides of the lacing, I put in 3 pieces. That fixed the problem of the stuff bending at the waist, if you have the pointy-front styled bodice. HTH! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:35:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16691 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24665; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27295 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:49:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27270 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA24100 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:18:56 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA27199; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:18:56 +0930 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:18:54 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quasi-stupid dye question In-Reply-To: <380D1963.C60D740A@inreach.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Diana H wrote: > This isn't a stupid question at all! And the answer is that it depends > on the fibers and the dye that you use. In the instance of your > proposed fabric, all I can say is that silk takes dye very, very well. > I am not as sure about rayon but I seem to remember that it takes pretty > well. And I have had good success with Rit dye on just about > everything. There are other commercial "cold" dyes in some fabric > stores but I don't think that they work very well. > Well lots of people have been saying rayon and silk should dye the same so I thought I would relate my experience. A little while ago now I dyed some silk and rayon together in a dye bath. The dye was Rit Dark Green liquid dye, and the fabrics were already coloured, both shades of lime green (except for one piece of silk which was ice-blue). I used two bottles of dye (there was 6m of the rayon and 4m of silk). The silk became quite a dark green, the rayon only a medium shade. There was a very noticeable difference between them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:41:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16697 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:41:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25635; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28811 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:56:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28801 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA24937 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:25:55 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA27639; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:25:54 +0930 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:25:54 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991020172840.007ac3a0@pop.utulsa.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA28807 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Marc Carlson wrote: > >and so get different meanings of sentences. But I grant you; I'm no > >latinist. About the comma; is it really there in the original text? They did > >not have commas in the middel ages, as far as I know. At least not in the > >13th c. > > Since I don't have the original text in hand, I'm afraid I couldn't tell > you why > the Great Britain Public Record Office chose to put the commas in their > _Matthœi > Parisiensis, monachi Sancti Albani Historia Anglorum, sive, ut vulgo dicitur, > Historia minor. Item, ejusdem Abbreviatio chronicorum Angliœ_. All I can > tell you > is that they are there on the microfiche. > Well, in a quick glance at my library I saw no commas, but plenty of full stops, colons and semi-colons. Perhaps one of those was used in the context we might today use a comma and someone thought they would do the modern reader a favour by 'translating' it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:43:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16705 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:43:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25852; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29128 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:57:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29112 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:57:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SGIa11018 (3866) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.2952e4b4.253fa267@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:55:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie inspirations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com The first costume "movie" that truly inspired me was the Lillie series on Masterpiece Theater when I was a kid back in the 70s. So many gorgeous bustle era dresses! Such a small waist! I bought the videos quite some time ago now, not a small purchase, but very worth it. Dangerous Liaisons also has to top the list. Not many movies where we get to actually see them dressing from head to toe as in the credits of this one. When I think of movies that are inspirational costume-wise I think of the ones I've watched over and over, even just a particular scene... I must have seen the A & E Pride and Prejudice at least 10 times so I guess that counts. I've got Immortal Beloved queued to my favorite scenes, yes, yes I know it's not truly period, but despite any inaccuracies the dresses are a refreshing change from the basic Regency white with their rich colors and eastern influence. Greta Satchi wears some beautiful gowns & wigs in Jefferson in Paris. Angels and Insects is wonderful for the vibrant colors and insect-inspired gowns. I also liked the video I checked out recently that was a film adaptation of Wilkie Collin's Basil, it had some nice artistic inspired gowns. Also like a little known Merchant Ivory film of the Henry James story "The Europeans". I could go on and on... And for the completely over-the-top historically *inspired* melange of a bunch of time periods, completely inaccurate ON PURPOSE the award goes to Desperate Remedies - a fabulous send up of the typical bodice ripper. One of my all-time favorite movies. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:43:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16709 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25504; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28702 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28684 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.179.32] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11e3LI-0005DW-00; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:32:20 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991020212853.00744268@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:28:53 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:39 PM 10/19/99 +1000, you wrote: >By the way, as one with a bit in my brain about Georgian/Regency military, >what is the word on the Hornblower TV series that has yet to show >here...will I be spending my time or wasting it? > > >-C. > _________________________________________________________________ > Where is here? The Hornblower miniseries already aired both in England where it was produced, and in the U.S.. I would argue that it is worth watching, but it is not Hornblower as presented in the books. Clothing was generally good, but the kept crossing periods (Naval and Civilian). They took a few liberties on the uniforms as well, apparently for more flash. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:51:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16720 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26949; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00762 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:04:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00747 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20252 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01d201bf1b50$19e90b20$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: cyclas sources (Terminology) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:09:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- Since I don't have the original text in hand, I'm afraid I couldn't tell you why the Great Britain Public Record Office chose to put the commas in their _Matthœi Parisiensis, monachi Sancti Albani Historia Anglorum, sive, ut vulgo dicitur, Historia minor. Item, ejusdem Abbreviatio chronicorum Angliœ_. All I can tell you is that they are there on the microfiche. Punctuating edited Latin texts (particularly medieval Latin texts) is pretty much standard practice; it dates back at least to the early printed editions printed in the 1500s. Having looked at 13th and 14th century manuscripts quite extensively in the course of my doctoral work, I can confirm the lack of commas in the originals. In fact, I've got some translated excerpts of the _Chronica Majora_ of Matthew of Paris (different work than the one cited, but same author) in a "coffee-table-type" book I found at Barnes and Noble, including some pictures of what is thought to be the autograph copy (with Matthew's own drawings). Not a comma in site. There are, however, periods. I can also tell you that punctuation by modern scholars is very much an idiosyncratic thing. My supervisor and I spent a lot of time working out the punctuation in my text; when I made the final corrections after my defense, one of my committee members suggested some changes--and it turns out he was closer to *my* original punctuation of the text. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:52:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16724 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27144; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:06:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01113 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:06:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01101 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:06:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VVBa11027 (3866) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.7a13ef35.253fa47a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:04:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/99 1:02:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mayfair13a@aol.com writes: << I remembered another one too. Murder on the Orient Express. Love the train station scene. >> Death on the Nile's great too. I love all the wild fortuny type dresses Angela Landsbury's wacky drunken character wears. I think D on the N won or was nominated for an award for costumes, but I could be wrong. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 17:56:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16728 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:56:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27682; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01972 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:10:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01958 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:10:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OPKa03805 (3866) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.92f05138.253fa59b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:09:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Military Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com If you're into Napoleonic costumes (and GUY costume movies) one of the best in my opinion is The Duelists, with Harvey Keitel. Some of the costumes looked like they'd come straight out of the military museum in Paris. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 18:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16814 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:53:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05211; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12466 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:07:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12459 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-177.pompano.net [24.129.74.177]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26560 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:07:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: Subject: H-COST: spray dye Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:06:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991020161410.00973260@rrnet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" I am making a tent and need to dye a large yardage of fabric. (18 sq yards) has anyone used it? What can I use. andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:00:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16833 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06035; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13508 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:15:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13496 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:15:09 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LNZa11018 (4598) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b3c1fbb.253fb4a1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:13:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/1999 5:42:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: << But he's [James Acheson] a lovely man who came up through th ranks, and Bob Ringwood who is also not afraid to get in there and sew himself unlike most of the designers I've worked with >> Agreed. I've only worked with James but met Bob Ringwood here in Wilmington. Both very excellent designers and great people. Bob's costumes for "DUNE" are stored here [were stored here] in Wilmington because the studio was Dino deLauentes' then. They are magnificent! "Dune" is a horrible film with fantastic art direction. Each planet has a look with its foot firmly planted in an historical period.....which comments on the character of that planet. The Emperor's court has definite Spanish Inquisition overtones and the "good guys" evoke Nicholas & Alexandria. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16850 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08258; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16336 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16327 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (aus-as3-002.io.com [208.2.106.2]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22395 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199910210034.TAA22395@anarchy.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:38:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" I am a dancer and have enjoyed costuming research. All of what y'all say is acceptable as accurate. *Yes, there is even today a controversy over exposed bellies in Egypt. It doesn't matter how famous you are, you are still supposed to cover - even if it is with a flesh colored body stocking. I don't think the penalty is death, but I believe there may be some heavy fines involved. *As for the size of the women - y'all know that different cultures have different ideas on beauty. My husband (whom I've dragged to way too many Belly Dance shows) believes the more "mature" body does the dance more justice. *If I were going to go "in period" as a ME dancer, I would check out the designs of Persia, Turkey and Lebanon. There is a style of dress called the Beledi dress (or Baladi) that can VERY easily be designed to "look" period. Lebanese ladies wear them quite a lot. Check these out: http://www.greenduck.com/gfxfc/af23.htm http://users.lazerlink.com/~dwarph/v1n1/al-must_v1N1.html#RTFToC11 *Gypsies are not limited to one area of the world. Gypsy is a generic name for nomad bands from "anywhere". *I know most of you make your own costumes, but this lady has a handle on a "look" that very appropriate for "period" dance dressing: http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Ghazallah Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:44:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16874 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10550; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19439 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:58:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from merlins.force9.net (merlins.force9.net [195.166.128.23]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA19432 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13831 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 00:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coors.free-online.net) (212.56.108.80) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 00:58:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 30519 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 00:45:37 -0000 Received: from a090-07-02.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO cdc) (195.166.140.90) by coors.free-online.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 00:45:37 -0000 Message-ID: <001901bf1b5d$2c515760$b96e38d4@cdc> From: "Sally Ann Chandler" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:39:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sally Ann Chandler" Have you tried Tom Norbury? He can manage most things and will be at the Re-enactors Market at Oxford next month. Contact me privately if this makes no sense at all!! Sally Ann medcc@medcc.free-onlone.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Clark To: h-costume@indra.com Date: 20 October 1999 20:57 Subject: RE: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress > >-Poster: "Andrew Clark" > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On >Behalf Of MissMela@aol.com >Sent: 12 September 1999 05:48 >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress > > > >-Poster: MissMela@aol.com > >I am starting on a 17th or 16th (haven't found the right wool yet) 1895 >Lancer's Full Levee Dress uniform for my husband but am having trouble >locating the correct hat. I have pictures but do not know who sells them. >Any >help list? Miss Mela > > >Dear Miss Mella. >Dawn has passed your message on to me regarding lancer Czapska hats. >I am currently manufacturing new pattern one for the Band of the Royal >Lancer Regiment. >I can supply an 1890 pattern Officer's Czapska at a figure of £650.00 >excluding plate and cords. >There is some difficulty regarding plate patterns and the exact lace, as >these are difficult to obtain. >I can also supply a 1902 regulation 17th Lancer Officers complete for >£750.00. This is a more theatrical version using synthetic laces and two >colour plating on the front plate, rather than the correct seperate peices >of the original. > >Please let me know if these are of any interest to you and I can send >further details and delivery times. > >------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF1A75.D9584600 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; > name="Andrew Clark.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Andrew Clark.vcf" > >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Clark;Andrew;;Mr >FN:Andrew Clark >ORG:Military Metalwork >TITLE:Owner >TEL;WORK;VOICE:0181 580 2688 >ADR;WORK:;;1 Almond Grove;Brentford;Middlesex;TW8 8NP;England >LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:1 Almond = >Grove=3D0D=3D0ABrentford, Middlesex TW8 8NP=3D0D=3D0AEngland >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:andrew@militarymetal.free-online.co.uk >REV:19991005T200639Z >END:VCARD > >------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF1A75.D9584600-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16881 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13430; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21217 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:10:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21200 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.58] (sdts11-97.znet.net [207.167.66.97]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA13318 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:10:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910210034.TAA22395@anarchy.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:09:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >*I know most of you make your own costumes, but this lady has a handle on a >"look" that very appropriate for "period" dance dressing: > > http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Ghazallah > As a note, if the period one is doing is pre-17th c, the bodice would not be cut under the bust. That is a mid-17th c fashion modeled after the European fashions of the time. Also most of the trousers narrow down to a small cuff in period, however there are some trousers labeled 16th c in Tilke which state they are poofy and girded at the calf.. IMHO, this is a mismark as there are no other examples of these pants in the 16th c or earlier I've seen and it clearly comes into fashion in the late 17th c. Most dancing costume I've seen pre-17th c is no different from everyday dress, usually is not accompanied by any dangly bits or wide hip sashes, and has all the typical layers. And for Persian in particular, often worn with that silly looking dog-eared head wrap that I've never seen any recreationists wear.... Some of the best information on Women's costume is "Women's Costume of the Near and Middle East" by Jennifer Scarce and I like the closeups of the garments in "Splendors of the Ottoman Sultans" from the traveling Topkapi exhibit. Any University library usually carries a number of books on Islamic Miniature paintings, which are great for color and general look. One thing to note as well is that pre-17th c Turkish and Persian costumes do not use nearly as much striped fabrics as we tend to see in recreationist groups, and I've yet to find someone in a primary source wearing black. The hard thing is to find clear costume representations from pre-1325 or so. There are some ceramics, metalwork and etc, but they aren't often very clear, and fewer still can be identified as female. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16885 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13759; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21486 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:12:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21479 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:12:27 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6PAWnsxQu_ (3949) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b712dfd6.253fc259@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:11:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: movie inspirations To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/99 6:58:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Marionetta@aol.com writes: << I must have seen the A & E Pride and Prejudice at least 10 times so I guess that counts. I've got Immortal Beloved queued to my favorite scenes, yes, yes I know it's not truly period, but despite any inaccuracies the dresses are a refreshing change from the basic Regency white with their rich colors and eastern influence. Greta Satchi wears some beautiful gowns & wigs in Jefferson in Paris. >> Okay, I stayed out of this discussion but cannot resist sharing a unique experience. Last week while in London for research, and we made a side trip to Costprop. They shared costumes from Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, Jefferson in Paris, and a few from Dangerous Liaisons. We had great fun, particularly with the hats. Costprop would be interested in exhibiting costumes in the US. Email me offline for more details. Also found goodies at Portobello market for November and December door prizes for calendar purchasers! Watch the web site at the first of each month. Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 20:06:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16904 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:06:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15064; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:21:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22843 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:21:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22833 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA13519 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:20:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:20:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199910210120.SAA13519@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >*As for the size of the women - y'all know that different cultures have >different ideas on beauty. My husband (whom I've dragged to way too many >Belly Dance shows) believes the more "mature" body does the dance more >justice. > I've had a "mature" body, if by that you mean fat, since I was eight years old, but I never felt that I was getting the basic movement of Middle Eastern dance right until my third trimester of pregnancy. It makes sense, considering that many people believe that the dance is actually a metaphore, or even a training method, for sexuality, pregnancy, and childbirth. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 20:26:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16922 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17139; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25479 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:40:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25471 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPEU5LMC; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:39:44 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Looking for Swavelle Message-ID: <19990721.211827.5231.1.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199910201347.HAA14213@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-11 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:39:44 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" A friend is looking for Swavelle, a fabric company from whom she used to order fabrics at a ridiculously low price. She no longer can locate them. Anyone know of them? She didn't mention their location (except that it was in the US), and is away for a while so I can't ask her. Any leads would be most welcome! Kay Herb Martz kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 20:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16939 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18063; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26130 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:45:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26105 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alikhat.ix.netcom.com ([204.32.30.16]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA09867; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19991020184504.00697410@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: alikhat@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:45:35 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Alikhat Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies (NOT!) and dancers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Alikhat At 07:38 PM 10/20/99 -0500, Amanda Reeves" wrote: > >*Gypsies are not limited to one area of the world. Gypsy is a generic name >for nomad bands from "anywhere". Not exactly. Oh, true, you can use the word as a generic term, (you can even use it to apply to Broadway chorus dancers) but more properly the word "Gypsy" refers to people of Romani descent. The Rom are a nomadic people whose roots are Northern Indian and the word "Gypsy" was bestowed upon them by Europeans who erroneously thought they originated from Egypt. The Romani have a culture and traditions that (while they vary somewhat from region to region) are uniquely their own. They are not Arabic, they have little in the way of a tradition of belly dancing (though the Gypsies in Spain did invent the Tango) and though a traditional Romani woman could dance for money, she would *never* bare her midriff. Please, folks, everything that is exotic and/or nomadic is not necessarily "Gypsy". Alikhat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 21:16:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17010 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:16:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22815; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02728 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:30:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.engin.umich.edu (root@smtp.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.24]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02723 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from engin.umich.edu (Oxalis@pm471-45.dialip.mich.net [207.75.178.151]) by smtp.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00941; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380E7A39.3177E267@engin.umich.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:28:09 -0400 From: Oxalis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies (NOT!) and dancers References: <3.0.32.19991020184504.00697410@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Oxalis Tango was invented in Argentina, in the brothels of the port area of Buenos Aires. It was considered very imporper by most Argentines untill ti was popularised by expatriate singers living in Paris. This is why many of the best known Tango songs are the laments of men missing their hometown. Many Argentines are still sort of ashamed of the Tango. Alikhat wrote: > have little in the way of a tradition of belly dancing (though the Gypsies > in Spain did invent the Tango) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 21:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17014 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23061; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03037 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:32:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03021 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port64.imag.net [204.244.111.64]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03433 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003b01bf1b6c$c00a9480$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies - Silent Era Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:34:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Or, how about the silent film, with Douglas Fairbanks Sr. called 1001 Arabian Nights, (Possibly also called Sinbad the Sailor (I saw it a while back). Or the Phantom of the Opera with Lon Chaney - the effects of both those movies, the costumes especially, have remained with me since seeing them 10 years ago. Whether they were inaccurate or not, they looked so lush! Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Ballis To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 20, 1999 5:53 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies > >-Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > >Good historicals? Umm... > >How about 'The Three Musketeers' (the real one with Oliver Reed, not the >recent crappy cowboys on heat version). > >For strange, there's the Douglass Fairbanks Jr 'Sinbad the Sailor' - you >can spend many entertaining hours trying to work out where Anthony Quinn >got that perfectly cut jacket with shoulder padding and set sleeves. > >Sum'n say 'Orlando'? Well, nice chicks' movie, I suppose. > > >By the way, as one with a bit in my brain about Georgian/Regency military, >what is the word on the Hornblower TV series that has yet to show >here...will I be spending my time or wasting it? > > >-C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 21:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17056 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:39:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25081; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05947 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:53:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05925 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991021025309.NFWV23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:53:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:57:22 -0700 Subject: H-COST: costume in the movies From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991021025309.NFWV23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Oddly enough *Bravo* is doing a whole week of best dressed movies. Tonight they did *Shanghai Triad* which was done by a Chinese Director and set in Shanghai in the 30s... A wonderful mix of western and oriental and show-girl type costumes. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 21:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17076 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:46:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26008; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06946 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:00:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06939 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:00:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port64.imag.net [204.244.111.64]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08824 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008f01bf1b70$a5f75480$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume in the movies Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:01:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" OH no!! How am I going to convince my sweetie to give up the TV when hockey and resting are on?! Auuugghh! Zelda, rushing off to appropriate the remote. -----Original Message----- From: R.L. Shep To: h-costume Date: October 20, 1999 7:55 PM Subject: H-COST: costume in the movies > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >Oddly enough *Bravo* is doing a whole week of best dressed movies. >Tonight they did *Shanghai Triad* which was done by a Chinese Director and >set in Shanghai in the 30s... A wonderful mix of western and oriental and >show-girl type costumes. >~!~ R.L.Shep >http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 22:06:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17105 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:06:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28354; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09814 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:20:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09806 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-142.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.142]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17348 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bf1b73$b5398d20$8eaba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:23:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" None of them, actually, but I did have a Dorothy Hamill haircut, wore a red satin baseball jacket and Jordache jeans (gee, you can't tell I went to high-school in the late 70s.) Can you say "That 70's Show"? :) :) :) Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 11:48 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies (long list) > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > > >> >>-Poster: "Broneske" >> >>When I was a young teen, I created a costume from "Xanadu" complete with >leg >>warmers and roller skates!! >> >> >>Joan Broneske >>unicorn@softcom.net > > >And a brave person, indeed, to admit to that. And, which of Charlie's >Angels was your favorite? >;) > >Michelle > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 22:07:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17115 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:07:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28598; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10068 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:22:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10060 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k649.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.249]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16383 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380E8621.492E@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:18:57 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: resting? References: <008f01bf1b70$a5f75480$03000004@van1282> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi The Rogue wrote: > > -Poster: "The Rogue" > > OH no!! How am I going to convince my sweetie to give up the TV when hockey > and resting are on?! > Resting's a sport now? At last, something I'm qualified for! Olympics, here I come! ;-> Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 23:36:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17316 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06605; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20548 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:45:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20541 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wanda (ke-ppp06.hevanet.com [198.5.254.156]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA09508 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Pourpoints & Houppelands Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:41:43 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wanda Pease" Hope I'm not too late with this question, but.... Robin, I have several closeups of the Arnofini Marriage picture, and a slide of only the mirror. Believe it or not the back of her dress is very carefully painted and shows up well in the mirror. Her sleves are huge in back, in fact they seem to come off the base of her neck at either side and curve way down, then out. Would this be what you mean by "grandes assiette manner?" Regina Romsey, OUDV >> Are the sleeves still cut in the same "grandes assiette manner"? If so, how >> does it turn into a bag? >> Is his dagging applied as trim, set into a seam I cant see or artistic >> license?> >No idea without seeing the picture, but I found that once I figured out >how to make a certain form of open sleeve (the cut is not immediately >apparent), then converting it into a bag required only one more seam. I've >seen dagging running along the outer lower edge of a bag sleeve before; >that's where the seam is, so I presume that sort of dagging is set into >the seam. Sometimes you see hanging bells or fringe on that same line. >I've also seen dagging or other decorations along the line of an armhole, >so again I figure it's set into a seam. >I would use the term "grande assiette" to refer to an armhole that's >deeply cut into the body at the back in a large circular shape. Is that >what you're seeing? I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use that >armhole with a bag sleeve, though I'd have to see an example to get a >sense of how it might be cut. > >If you do find this image online, or in another book, let me know. This is >the kind of illustration you sometimes see in the Medieval Woman series, >but it didn't come to hand in the few items I just flipped through. >--Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 20 23:43:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17322 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07673; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21772 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:57:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21763 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-19.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJX0092YSCDDC@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:55:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:54:49 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Deeply Cut Sleeves (Pourpoints & Houppelands) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <380E9C99.C8A85297@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910210445.WAA20594@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >I would use the term "grande assiette" to refer to an armhole that's > >deeply cut into the body at the back in a large circular shape. Is that > >what you're seeing? I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use that > >armhole with a bag sleeve, though I'd have to see an example to get a > >sense of how it might be cut. > How about cut deeply into the back as an angled piece, such as the Moy Gown (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.html) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 00:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17378 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12081; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28132 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:59:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28123 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20720 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:09:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA23131 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:09:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:09:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Deeply cut sleeves In-Reply-To: <380E9C99.C8A85297@utulsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton Replying to two messages at once... On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Wanda Pease wrote: > Robin, I have several closeups of the Arnofini Marriage picture, and a > slide of only the mirror. Believe it or not the back of her dress is > very carefully painted and shows up well in the mirror. Her sleves are > huge in back, in fact they seem to come off the base of her neck at > either side and curve way down, then out. Would this be what you mean > by "grandes assiette manner?" Mark wrote: > How about cut deeply into the back as an angled piece, such as the Moy > Gown (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.html) First, I should note that the post Wanda quoted was from the middle of a conversation; some of us had discussed this sleeve cut in some detail already. We were using the term to refer specifically to a late-14th-century armhole cut suggested on some men's short, fitted garments in illuminations, and seen clearly in the extant pourpoint of Charles de Blois (see Blanche Payne's or Stella Mary Newton's books for good images of this garment). I've never heard the term applied outside that fairly narrow context, and since we're being careful this week about not misusing terms, I myself wouldn't apply it to anything else -- not to an angled piece, and not to a woman's gown. I wrote earlier about my belief that the deep cut was developed as a practical method of dealing with the back, chest, and shoulders of a heavily muscled man. I've found that to be the case in my own reconstructions -- I found the deep cut essential when I was fitting a man with strongly muscled shoulders, but never when I was fitting women or less-muscled men. This is consistent with the fact that every example I've seen that might be this cut has been on a warrior or otherwise athletic young man. This need for shoulder flexibility seems to be intrinsic to the body shape; the men of my acquaintance who are built this way tell me tales of modern shirts that rip down the backs when they happen to stretch their arms forward, because of the expansion of the muscles; they have that problem with fitted costumes as well. An armorer friend of mine showed me a way to measure the expansion; he uses that measurement routinely when building armor for fighters. Now I use it when fitting athletic men. I found that on the back, the curved seam follows the line that separates the area of the back that does not "stretch" with arm motion from the area that does. That is, if you place your seam on the line dictated by the body movement, it produces the same "grande assiette" line as seen in the sources. I am attracted to the idea that there was a logical reason for developing such a weird-looking cut. I see that in my last post I referred to the cut as being deep "in the back," but Charles' poupoint is cut deeply in the front as well, as was the one I made. I tend to think of the back because that's the area where I do my "expansion" measurements, but you need the flexibility in the front, too. Mindful of our desire not to misapply the term, I also wouldn't use this term for a garment that was loose in the body, such as the houppelande Giovanna is wearing. That's not to say that there were never deep or loose armholes in women's clothing or houppelandes, but rather that (as far as I can determine) the "grande assiette" armhole was developed specifically for a fitted garment. Moving again into theory, if you buy the logic that the cut was a means to provide flexibility in a fitted garment for a muscular man, it would not have been necessary in a full-bodied garment like a houppelande. In my earlier musing about bag sleeves, I said I suppose it would be possible to put a bag sleeve into a deep-cut armhole, but that I hadn't seen it done and I couldn't quite picture how it might be done (or why). The pourpoints generally had fitted sleeves as well as bodies. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the curved line was picked up from the pourpoint and applied decoratively to different styles of clothes, or to women's clothes. I'd have to look for images to get a sense of whether this was actually done. (Now watch, I'll probably find twenty of them next time I open a book.) Even so, unless and until I hear of a historic source that uses the term "grande assiette" for these, I won't do so myself. Cynthia posted some references from French documents of the period that used the term; all of them applied to men's pourpoints. She also listed some references simply to "assiettes," which would suggest that the "grande" ones were a specific style. The distinction might be as simple as saying "armholes" and "big armholes," assuming everyone at the time knew what the "big" kind looked like. I can't speak to the shape of the back armhole of Giovanna's gown. I just got nose-to-nose with (1) my life-size poster reproduction of the painting and (2) a close-up print published by the National Gallery. Both were too dark to give me any clues. Given the angle at which she is standing, though, I would wonder whether a line might be the actual seam or simply the visible edge of the puffed-out surface of the sleeve. However, the front armhole is clearly cut traditionally -- no deep circles there. I think that alone would preclude us from saying she's wearing a "grande assiette" cut. --Robin, getting verbose after midnight (too tired to edit) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 03:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13863 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:30:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23312; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA13658 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:44:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13653 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA27448.; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:50:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:43:18 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:37:53 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re. Favourite costumes in movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id CAA13654 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Christopher - (I take it 'here' means Australia?). A friend of mine who collects military uniforms and is quite knowledgeable thought that 'Hornblower' was well done. Dawn - By the 'proper' version of 'Henry V' I take it you mean Olivier's? I think both versions are excellent in their own ways, Olivier's for the wonderful designs based on art of the period, Branagh's for the human realism and immediacy of the campaigning scenes (though of course it's absurd that the King doesn't wear armour). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 04:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14017 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26419; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15128 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:01:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk (mail2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.210]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15120 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem-228.name49.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.184.228] helo=default) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11eF1l-0001V9-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:00:57 +0100 Message-ID: <005601bf1bac$27018880$91a3883e@default> From: "Joy Shillaker" To: Subject: H-COST: Movie inspiration Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:49:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF1BB2.007D3F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joy Shillaker" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF1BB2.007D3F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The BBC 'midsummer Night's Dream' with Helen Mirren as Titania. Looked = to me as if it was inspired by Richard Dadd's paintings. Joy *************************************************************************= ******************************************* "Balls! We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them = here, and we want them now." ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF1BB2.007D3F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The BBC = 'midsummer Night's=20 Dream' with Helen Mirren as Titania. Looked to me as if it was inspired = by=20 Richard Dadd's paintings.
Joy
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"Balls!=20 We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them here, and = we want=20 them now."
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF1BB2.007D3F00-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 04:55:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14025 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26765; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15919 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15912 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.68.187]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991021101119.QTJ2770.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:11:19 +0100 Message-ID: <380F4B4F.6C1E@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:20:15 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Military Costuming in Movies References: <0.92f05138.253fa59b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com > > If you're into Napoleonic costumes (and GUY costume movies) one of the best > in my opinion is The Duelists, with Harvey Keitel. Some of the costumes > looked like they'd come straight out of the military museum in Paris. > >This gets my vote in this category. Most of my Hussar clients decide they want to be one because of this film Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 04:55:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14026 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26742; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15896 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15888 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.68.187]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991021101115.QST2770.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:11:15 +0100 Message-ID: <380F4AF9.624@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:18:49 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie inspirations References: <0.b712dfd6.253fc259@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn SAQUEEN@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/20/99 6:58:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Marionetta@aol.com writes: > > << I must have seen the A & E Pride and Prejudice at least 10 times so I > guess > that counts. I've got Immortal Beloved queued to my favorite scenes, yes, > yes I know it's not truly period, but despite any inaccuracies the dresses > are a refreshing change from the basic Regency white with their rich colors > and eastern influence. Greta Satchi wears some beautiful gowns & wigs in > Jefferson in Paris. >> > > > > Cosprop would be interested in exhibiting costumes in the US. Email me > offline for more details. They now exhibit at museums around the country in the Uk. For those that don't know Cosprop is the only decent costume house as the owner actually loves and respects clothing and his staff unlike the other place which justwants to make a fast buck. The owner of Cosprop is a designer in his own right as he codesigned Out of Africa among others > Dawn > _________________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 04:55:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14027 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26737; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15884 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15875 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.68.187]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991021101015.DKEK11967.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:10:15 +0100 Message-ID: <380F49F3.16F2@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:14:27 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: <0.b3c1fbb.253fb4a1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/20/1999 5:42:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dawn.wood1@virgin.net writes: > > << But he's [James Acheson] a lovely man who came up > through th ranks, and Bob Ringwood who is also not afraid to get in > there and sew himself unlike most of the designers I've worked with >> > > Agreed. I've only worked with James but met Bob Ringwood here in Wilmington. > Both very excellent designers and great people. Bob's costumes for "DUNE" are > stored here [were stored here] in Wilmington because the studio was Dino > deLauentes' then. They are magnificent! "Dune" is a horrible film with > fantastic art direction. Each planet has a look with its foot firmly planted > in an historical period.....which comments on the character of that planet. > The Emperor's court has definite Spanish Inquisition overtones and the "good > guys" evoke Nicholas & Alexandria. I couldn't agree more. My friend Jenny worked with him on Batman whilst at Angels and had a great time, He was particularly respected when he was having trouble with Kim Basinger who never turned up for any of her fittings or shopping. He apparently in the end was so fed up he stormed into her hotel room and when she then didn't have time because she was busy with her personal trainer told her to go and get her clothes herself (only not so politely)and refused to deal with her. Too many prima donnas in this business Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 04:55:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14035 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:55:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26890; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15953 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15947 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.68.187]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991021100946.BIWD29772.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:09:46 +0100 Message-ID: <380F4C9E.47F0@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:25:50 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Deeply cut sleeves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Robin Netherton wrote: > > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > Replying to two messages at once... > > On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > Robin, I have several closeups of the Arnofini Marriage picture, and a > > slide of only the mirror. Believe it or not the back of her dress is > > very carefully painted and shows up well in the mirror. Her sleves are > > huge in back, in fact they seem to come off the base of her neck at > > either side and curve way down, then out. Would this be what you mean > > by "grandes assiette manner?" > > Mark wrote: > > > How about cut deeply into the back as an angled piece, such as the Moy > > Gown (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.html) > > First, I should note that the post Wanda quoted was from the middle of a > conversation; some of us had discussed this sleeve cut in some detail > already. We were using the term to refer specifically to a > late-14th-century armhole cut suggested on some men's short, fitted > garments in illuminations, and seen clearly in the extant pourpoint of > Charles de Blois (see Blanche Payne's or Stella Mary Newton's books for > good images of this garment). I've never heard the term applied outside > that fairly narrow context, and since we're being careful this week about > not misusing terms, I myself wouldn't apply it to anything else -- not to > an angled piece, and not to a woman's gown. > > I wrote earlier about my belief that the deep cut was developed as a > practical method of dealing with the back, chest, and shoulders of a > heavily muscled man. I've found that to be the case in my own > reconstructions -- I found the deep cut essential when I was fitting a man > with strongly muscled shoulders, but never when I was fitting women or > less-muscled men. This is consistent with the fact that every example > I've seen that might be this cut has been on a warrior or otherwise > athletic young man. This need for shoulder flexibility seems to be > intrinsic to the body shape; the men of my acquaintance who are built this > way tell me tales of modern shirts that rip down the backs when they > happen to stretch their arms forward, because of the expansion of the > muscles; they have that problem with fitted costumes as well. An armorer > friend of mine showed me a way to measure the expansion; he uses that > measurement routinely when building armor for fighters. Now I use it when > fitting athletic men. I found that on the back, the curved seam follows > the line that separates the area of the back that does not "stretch" with > arm motion from the area that does. That is, if you place your seam on the > line dictated by the body movement, it produces the same "grande assiette" > line as seen in the sources. I am attracted to the idea that there was a > logical reason for developing such a weird-looking cut. > > I see that in my last post I referred to the cut as being deep "in the > back," but Charles' poupoint is cut deeply in the front as well, as was > the one I made. I tend to think of the back because that's the area where > I do my "expansion" measurements, but you need the flexibility in the > front, too. > It is interesting that the cut of sleeves for arming garments is very similar to the cut of sleeves for Napoleonic uniforms' i.e high under the armpit, well over the shoulder bone and far front and back I discussed this the clients I have of both periods and realised that this is because the sword/fighting movements are identical in both these periods. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 06:28:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14207 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:28:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00350; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23453 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:42:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23446 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:42:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ACOLoidI_ (4445) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.315c88c5.254055d4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:41:08 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com Do any of you know anything regarding the accuracy of the costume in "Alexander Nevsky"? My husband & I caught this on A&E for the first time last year & loved it!! Could any of you point me towards a good source for researching Russian Garb? Cheers!! Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 07:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14270 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:30:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04110; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29511 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:43:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29505 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991021124435.29065.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:44:35 PDT Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:44:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney My DH refers to it as the "body of the goddess"... in many wiccan references, the goddess is pictured has having a rounded belly (symbol of fertility), not this skinny barbie doll look... I have several friends who are actually middle eastern dancers who all have that kinda "pear-ish" shape. Sarah > > > >*As for the size of the women - y'all know that > different cultures have > >different ideas on beauty. My husband (whom I've > dragged to way too many > >Belly Dance shows) believes the more "mature" body > does the dance more > >justice. > > > I've had a "mature" body, if by that you mean fat, > since I was eight years > old, but I never felt that I was getting the basic > movement of Middle > Eastern dance right until my third trimester of > pregnancy. It makes sense, > considering that many people believe that the dance > is actually a metaphore, > or even a training method, for sexuality, pregnancy, > and childbirth. > > > Margo ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 07:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14364 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:56:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06435; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02957 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:11:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02949 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.101] (ell245.acadia.net [205.217.210.101]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06273 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:21:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: hornblower Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> I'm a Hornblower fan (haven't seen the series, don't intend to), have all the books, but I have to say, Forster didn't know his clothing, he made some mistakes himself (but I doubt he made any about the navy or ships.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 08:44:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14392 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:44:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11125; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10162 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:58:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10136 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JHEE5Q36FK0016R1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:03:23 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JHEE49JRLA00156X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:24:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:18:19 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:55 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:46 +1100 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:46 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <2CE99B08DC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Oooh! One of our Subject Librarians has just weeded her book stock and passed some stuff my way. I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 08:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14409 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12638; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12413 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12403 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-160.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.160]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id AAA09001 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:08:57 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910211408.AAA09001@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: film costumes (well, TV, but...) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:15:07 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > What about one of my favorite shows, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman? Dr Quinn was a slut...I mean, that hair! -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 08:58:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14413 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12652; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12418 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12410 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-160.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.160]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id AAA09014 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:08:59 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910211408.AAA09014@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:18:16 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > >He cut > >down trees and brought them up to the 3rd floor shop so he could see what the > >colonials would look like in front of Jeeze, did he wear a coon skin cap? -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 09:24:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14434 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:24:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16249; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17800 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:38:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17757 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-160.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.160]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id AAA16722 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:38:17 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199910211438.AAA16722@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: hornblower Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:08 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Gotta agree that Forrester knew his maritime and history and had the sense to usually keep details of the uniforms to a minimum [the occasional reference to lace, epulettes (loved the use of plural in Beat to Quarters giving us an idea of old Horny's time in the rank), and bad weather wear]. Mention of things such as gold coated rather than pure gold buttons and steel shoe buckles when gold could not be afforded were nice touches, though some of the descriptions of clothing throughout the books made one wonder (just what the hell was Lady Barbara doing in THAT dress when...bah, you know what I mean). Am disappointed it is not THE Hornblower as in the books but will be interested to see how the uniforms and other clothing match the supposed time period. So, is it chronological, in order of publication, mix'n'match or some goofy impressionistic variant of the stories? -C. > > < presented in the books. Clothing was generally good, but the kept crossing > periods (Naval and > Civilian). >> > > I'm a Hornblower fan (haven't seen the series, don't intend to), have all > the books, but I have to say, Forster didn't know his clothing, he made > some mistakes himself (but I doubt he made any about the navy or ships.) > > > Deborah > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 10:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14527 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22732; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28113 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:22:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28104 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:22:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FJY004SSLB513@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:21:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:31:48 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Deeply cut sleeves In-reply-to: <199910211243.GAA29541@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991021103148.007a9bb0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >First, I should note that the post Wanda quoted was from the middle of a >conversation; some of us had discussed this sleeve cut in some detail >already... Thank you for the recap, but it really wasn't necessary. I just hadn't seen anything previously posted that answered the question I asked. Since I was moving away from the "houpelande" concept (as the Moy Gown is NOT a houpelande), and asking a different question based on a similar concept - succinctly stated in the material I referred to (which I did not cite since I didn't see any attribution to it in the message I was quoting), I changed the subject heading. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 10:51:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14585 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29496; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09044 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:04:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09031 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:04:22 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ULQa12220 (4254) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.233d46a0.25409348@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:03:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: costume in the movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/20/1999 11:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_rogue@imag.net writes: << OH no!! How am I going to convince my sweetie to give up the TV when hockey and resting are on?! Auuugghh! >> Championship resting??? ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14601 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:06:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02204; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13159 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:20:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13144 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port033.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.33]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA29155 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:19:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <380E678D.DA2C0B7B@ndh.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:08:30 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------077BDA1530A754A8FA854DAA" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------077BDA1530A754A8FA854DAA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > They now exhibit at museums around the country in the Uk. For those that > don't know Cosprop is the only decent costume house as the owner > actually loves and respects clothing and his staff unlike the other > place which justwants to make a fast buck. The owner of Cosprop is a > designer in his own right as he codesigned Out of Africa among others > > > Now I have just recently been in London and I didn`t know about them- what a pity.Do they rent the costumes to theatres and film companies or what do they do in particular ? Does anybody have the adress ? A friend of mine is going to London soon and she might be interested in having a look. Many greetings, Diana --------------077BDA1530A754A8FA854DAA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
They now exhibit at museums around the country in the Uk. For those that
don't know Cosprop is the only decent costume house as the owner
actually  loves and respects clothing and his staff unlike the other
place which justwants to make a fast buck. The owner of Cosprop is a
designer in his own right as he codesigned Out of Africa among others
>
Now I have just recently been in London and I didn`t know about them- what a pity.Do they rent the costumes to theatres and film companies or what do they do in particular ?
Does anybody have the adress ?
A friend of mine is going to London soon and she might be interested in having a look.

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------077BDA1530A754A8FA854DAA-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:12:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14607 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03427; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14678 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:25:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14659 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:25:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EYM0Ha1R1 (4254) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3abe9ac8.2540986a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:25:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/1999 7:44:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mayfair13a@aol.com writes: << "Alexander Nevsky"? My husband & I caught this on A&E for the first time last year & loved it!! >> And what a GREAT score! By Prokofiev. It's on CD....get it! NOW! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:15:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14611 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03674; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14996 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:27:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14986 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:27:12 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JWOa15805 (4254) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.29590e01.254098a6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:26:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/21/1999 10:10:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: << Jeeze, did he wear a coon skin cap? >> No....but he tried to get us to put one on some colonials. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14633 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:28:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06174; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18835 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:42:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18817 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991021164135.WIHZ9301.gigi.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:41:35 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Message-Id: <940524094.9270.945@excite.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:41:34 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > One of our Subject Librarians has just weeded her book stock and > passed some stuff my way. > > I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal > of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance > through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > > Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? And where is it you live, exactly . . . ? *She says, smiling sweetly, innocent expression in her eyes . . .* Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14643 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07836; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21228 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:52:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21223 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slippery.excite.com ([199.172.153.106]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991021165153.WTHG29876.ewey.excite.com@slippery.excite.com> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:51:53 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: The Perfect Festival Message-Id: <940524713.2270.286@excite.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:51:53 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" Now, why haven't I heard of this before? It sound like the ideal place for folks on this list to flock to. History, costumes and CHOCOLATE! *************************************************** Feeding Frenzy At Chocolate Festival Updated 8:12 AM ET October 21, 1999 PERUGIA, Italy (Reuters) - It's a chocoholic's dream and a dentist's nightmare. For one gluttonous week, Italy's self-styled chocolate city, Perugia, is hosting "Eurochocolate" -- a festival dedicated to the cocoa sweetmeat in all its forms. A fashion show at the "Sweet Tooth Theatre" displays chocolate-inspired dresses, artists paint in molten chocolate, streets are transformed into mini-histories of chocolate. Peroxide blonde Italian girls in pseudo Dutch costumes sell hexagonal rolls of Droste chocolate drops, while one counter is piled high with the famous nipple-shaped "Baci" ("Kisses") sweets made by Perugia-based chocolate maker Perugina. The centerpiece of the Cedrinco stall is a giant chocolate and caramel bonbon weighing a staggering 1.003 kg (2.2 lbs). A poster pasted to walls around Perugia extols the nutritional values of the much-maligned delicacy. "Those in need of an energy boost should have a bar or cup of chocolate rather than any other food -- it is so digestible that it can be absorbed in two hours," the poster says. ************************************** I simply must speak to my travel agent about professional discounts to Italy . . . perhaps a perscription for a vacation from my MD? I am, after all, a life-long hardcore chocolholic. It would be therapeutic . . . yeah, that's it . . . Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14703 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09581; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24299 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:04:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24274 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.61.172]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991021170254.BMAQ2942.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:02:54 +0100 Message-ID: <380FABFA.3ED5@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:12:42 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: movie inspirations References: <380E678D.DA2C0B7B@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Andrea Clef wrote: > > They now exhibit at museums around the country in the Uk. For those that > don't know Cosprop is the only decent costume house as the owner > actually loves and respects clothing and his staff unlike the other > place which justwants to make a fast buck. The owner of Cosprop is a > designer in his own right as he codesigned Out of Africa among others > > > > Now I have just recently been in London and I didn`t know about them- > what a pity.Do they rent the costumes to theatres and film companies > or what do they do in particular ? > Does anybody have the adress ? > A friend of mine is going to London soon and she might be interested > in having a look. > > Clothing is only rented to film and theatre not general public and she would need an appointment Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 13:24:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14775 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23629; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16755 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:38:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16744 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:38:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DOYa19964 (4319) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:37:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi all, Just got back from seeing the Brassai exhibit at the National Gallery. He photographed Paris in the late 20s early 30s, with a lot of photos of ''underground" Paris and portraits of the famous artists of the day. Anyway, I noticed that several of the women in the pictures (one in an opium den and other in a brothel I think...) were wearing fishnet stockings and it got me wondering how long fishnets have been around. Also, in these particular pictures they seemed to be worn by women of "questionable morals." Has there long been an association with fishnets and risque women? My books were silent on the subject, anyone know? Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 14:27:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14831 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04541; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01350 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:39:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (scl-viruswall.phoenix.com [134.122.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01334 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 134.122.11.5 by scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:38:57 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPWSLL>; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:38:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA1EC@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Putting powder in pourpoints Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:38:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Marc & I have been conversing over a particularly mysterious & problematic section of A. Harmand's "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son armeur", ch. 10 "Gippon". The section involves putting powder into pourpoints. I'm reluctant to translate anything I don't understand, hence the thread & the broader request for comments. In the conversation you will see abbreviations like: PP=pourpoint, AH= A. Harmand, the author. cin>> Were you interested in the paragraph [p. 120-1] speculating whether powder is perfume, fungicide/flea >>powder or magical charm? It's a curiosity, but few re-enactors would go this far. marc> No, but it's really interesting. It's possibly also just decomposing stuffing :) cin> No way. This stuff seems pricey. 40 livres tournois for a livre of powder to put into pourpoints that are being made. This is quite clear from the footnotes where AH cites original, 1395 accounting records (bottom of p. 121). cin> Admittedly, I'm not clear what a livre (monetary) or a livre (weights & measures) is. I thought it was a gold coin, possibly cut w/ silver. A livre tournois is a livre from Tours. I've found a definition (16xx) that says 1 livre tournois = 4/5 livre parisiens, but I cant be sure this is true for 1395. marc> Think "Pound", as in English pounds. A livre is a french pound, and like the English is based (theoretically) on a pound of silver. cin> Ok, today an oz of silver is around $10. $160. cin> And in weights & measures a livre is ... 16 oz. A pound of powder costing $160 in each pourpoint in 1395. Now in a later ref, the pourpoint itself cost XL s.p. (40 solidi parisiens, I'm guessing. Any better ideas?) The garment is a tenth or less of the cost of the powder. cin> In a 1417 note, the PP cost III francs (same as a livre in money). cin> That's some expensive goodie to put in clothes! cin> This must be why the costume police were after Jeanne d'Arc: vanity, luxury or witchcraft. marc> Cocaine. Stuff the pourpoints with cocaine... cin> ROFL! Ah, and JofA got caught going thru customs. Right! marc>> Exactly. marc>> Seriously though, that sort of priciness should be some clue as to marc>> it's purpose. I've always been reluctant to buy into the anthropology marc>> cop-out of "it's a ritual object", but it is an easy answer sometimes. cin> Granted, that's why I suggested luxury & why AH suggests perfume. I cant see her suggestion of fungicide/insect repellant costing that much, but maybe. marc>> It could depend on what they were using for insecticide :) cin> This leaves her suggestion of witchcraft. But what price a good spell? cin> What would be the goal? Luck in battle? Fortune at court? Charming the chicks? Warding vs disease or demons? marc>> There's always simple sorcery (as opposed to Witchcraft). And if it were of a sorcerous nature, then a high price would be normal (as opposed to Witchcraft, which uses things one finds around the hovel) marc>> But I've never heard of any spells involving dumping powder into one's armor (and in all modesty, I know more about medieval magical practices than I do about shoes :) ) marc>> OTOH, I might be able to find someone else to ask... cin> I don't have any hint what the powdered PP were worn for; knowing this would cin> shed some small rays of light on the powder. Maybe someone else does. After cin> all citations like "MdS to wear at his village of Bruges", probably means cin> something to a thorough-going historian. The red satin PP I would guess is cin> court, but I'm not clear on the luxury levels. Why not a black satin arming cin> jack for the foppish? marc>> Possibly. Of course, there we have the problem of basing what we know of marc>> practice based on the actions of a specific minority. For example, if the powder marc>> was of an occult nature, why would we have reports of it from both Joan of Arc and marc>> Charles of Blois - both people noted for their sanctity? cin> Mind if I pull the whole "Putting powder in pourpoints" conversation & post cin> to h-costume? Maybe we'll find someone with a brilliant insight or an original source. marc>> It's worth a shot. So there you have it. Brilliant insight? Correction of cin's erroneous assumptions? Monetary values & clothing costs circa 1400? An original source? Relevant scholarly works? Witty repartee? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 14:54:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14851 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:54:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07963; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08297 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:08:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08290 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:07:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA1EC@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:08:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Putting powder in pourpoints Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Cynthia Barnes > >SNIP of really fascinating conversation> > >cin> Mind if I pull the whole "Putting powder in pourpoints" conversation & >post >cin> to h-costume? Maybe we'll find someone with a brilliant insight or an >original source. > >marc>> It's worth a shot. > >So there you have it. Brilliant insight? Correction of cin's erroneous >assumptions? Monetary values & clothing costs circa 1400? An original >source? Relevant scholarly works? Witty repartee? >--cin >Cynthia Barnes Not "a brilliant insight or an original source": Although I really like the idea of Joan of Arc getting busted for cocaine, I'll make a different suggestion based on not very much period research. Didn't someone recently write about decorating/painting clothing? Could the powder be powdered gold or silver for decoration? Could "in pourpoints" also be translated to be "on pourpoints"? A total guess, please don't laugh too loudly if this makes no sense whatsoever. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 16:06:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14992 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:06:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18506; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25248 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:18:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25229 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00476 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:23:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:23:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dyeing quesion In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991008194318.3a67648c@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Joan M Jurancich wrote: > >What I would like to know is what color I should over dye it for something > >more appropriate, and what kind of dye is reasonably easy to use for > >someone without a kitchen or washer of her own (ie: living in a dorm). > > > >Many thanks in advance for any help or advice > > > >Emma > > Well, which color to use depends upon what color you are hoping to achieve > . If you want to get away from greens, you would need to add red to it > until you reach a nice rich brown. Or if you want a deeper green, you add > black to it. > > Another way to proceed is to first strip the color out of the cloth with > something like the color stripper from RIT. You then have a paler cloth to > start from. > > I have found an Artist's Color Wheel to be a valuable tool when I'm trying > to decide what dye colors to use. If you're at all curious about what happened, I got some red rit dye and dyed the fabric earlier this week. The kelly green side is a sickly greenish brown, but the teal-ish side turned a nice dark royal purple. Possibly a little too dark, if anything. I figure I'll wash it once or twice before buying the fabric that needs to compliment it, maybe it will lighten a little. At the same time, I dyed some hideous bright turquoise linen, it came out a beautiful eggplant. Luckily, I'm fond of purple. Thanks again for the advice. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 18:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15147 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07176; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26259 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:35:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26252 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06253 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:45:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA29176 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:45:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:45:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: Putting powder in pourpoints In-Reply-To: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA1EC@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton This isn't nearly as fun a response as cocaine or a magical charm, but... perhaps that pound of powder noted in the books was meant for a whole bunch of pourpoints? You didn't quote the original passage, but your phrasing on the translation made me think this: "40 livres tournois for a livre of powder to put into pourpoints that are being made." One pound of powder for multiple pourpoints, not a pound of powder for each. Is that reading consistent with the rest of the text? I'm not sure whose books we're looking at, but if these payments were to a tailor who routinely did work for this client, perhaps the client paid for supplies in bulk. That is, you keep on hand a stock of powder (could be perfume, maybe just talc to coat the inside layers for some practical reason, anything), and you use a little in each pourpoint you make. When you run out, you order another pound. Do these same books also include bulk orders of pins? silk for edgings? other supplies? In any case, I would have trouble believing you could put a pound of ANY kind of powder into a pourpoint. I believe records already make clear they were made of multiple layers, and I believe they were also stuffed out with interlayers of cotton wool or something similar, like a quilt. So where would all this powder GO? Alternatively: Does this entry show up on lots of different pourpoints? If not, maybe this one pourpoint was special -- and "powdered" all over with little gold spangles (think the heraldic use of the word "powder"). It might take a pound of spangles to cover the surface. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 19:34:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15208 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:34:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14322; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08696 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:48:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08688 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port8.imag.net [204.244.111.8]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11638 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001001bf1c27$52bd4060$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: resting? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:49:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Spell checkers and late night postings . . . . oops! Sorry about that! Wrestling. I meant wrestling. Really! Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Susan Fatemi To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 20, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: H-COST: resting? > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >The Rogue wrote: >> >> -Poster: "The Rogue" >> >> OH no!! How am I going to convince my sweetie to give up the TV when hockey >> and resting are on?! >> > >Resting's a sport now? At last, something I'm qualified for! >Olympics, here I come! ;-> > > >Susan F. >-- >Oh Noh! Kimonos! >susanf@netwiz.net >http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 20:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15259 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:09:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18282; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:24:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14707 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:24:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (scl-viruswall.phoenix.com [134.122.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14674 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 134.122.11.5 by scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:23:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPWV5C>; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA2E4@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Putting powder in Pourpoints - original citations (translated) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:23:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes I've translated these original 14th c. citations as much as I can. The text gets esoteric, heavily abbreviated and ungrammatical; all this with creative orthography! A. Harmand's "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son armeur", ch. 10 "Gippon", 1929. Notes from page 120: 1. 1395 - "Jehan of Saligny apothecary living in Paris confesses having received payment of 40 'livres tournois'[T1, T2] from Jehan Poulain, treasurer to the Duke of Orleans. For which the said lord received 4 'livres'[T1] of powder to put in 4 satin pourpoints; 1 of vermilion and 3 others of black satin, to be made and delivered 'c'est assavoir a' Mons. de Bourgoigne, to the Sieur of Tremoille, to M. Guill[aume] de la Tremoille, his brother and to M. Elyan d Neilhac. [T3]", British Museum, Add. Chart. 2165. * "Jehan of Saligny apothecary for 4 livres of powder to put into 4 pourpoints dess.[T4] diz.[T5] at Xl. each 'livre'". [ibid.] * "Receipt by Perrin Pillot, tailor of "robes" and valet de chamber to the Duke of Orleans, to Jean Poulain treasurer to the Duke of Orleans for 48 l. tournois for the making of two satin pourpoints made of capiton[T6] and powder, the one for the Duke, the other for Louis de Sancerre Mareschal of France; under his seal the 4th of March 1395", Bib. Nat de France, fr 10431, p. 106. * "Receipt by Jean de Saligny apothecary living in Paris, to Jean Poulain, treasurer to the Duke of Orleans, for 20 'livres tournois' for 2 'livres' of powder at 10l the 'livre' in order to put in 2 black satin pourpoints that the said Duke has had made, on 24 April 1395." [ibid.] Translators notes: T1. Livre a measure of weigh equal to 16 oz.; Livre a measure of money. T2. Livre tournois, a livre [T1] coin from Tours, hence tournois, valued approx 1/5 less than the livre of Paris. (source: Dictionaire de l'Acadamie Francaise, 1694-1835.) T3. Likely "Mons" is an abbreviation for "Monsigneur", "M" for "Monsieur", and "Guill" for "Guillaume". T4. Likely "dess." is short for either "dessus" or "dessous", meaning "above/over" and "below/under", respectively. It is not clear which is intended here. T5. "Diz." unknown, some possibilities: "des" (some), "dizane" (a group of 10 things), a form of "dire" ( to say) T6. capit??? - the fax is unclear here. Likely this is: "CAPITON. sub. m. Soye grossiere dont on se sert dans les ouvrages de tapisserie. Ce n'est pas de la fine soye, ce n'est que du capiton.", Dictionaire de l'Acadamie Francaise, 1694. (Capiton (noun, masc.) coarser silk that one makes use of in tapestry. [e.g.] This is not fine silk, this is but capiton.) --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 21:38:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15461 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:38:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28141; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAB26774 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:45:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26758 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (aus-as4-049.io.com [208.2.105.49]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10875 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:45:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:48:55 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" ---------- > From: Julie Adams > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers > Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 9:09 PM > > -Poster: Julie Adams > > >*I know most of you make your own costumes, but this lady has a handle on a > >"look" that very appropriate for "period" dance dressing: > > > > http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Ghazallah > > > As a note, if the period one is doing is pre-17th c, the bodice would not > be cut under the bust. That is a mid-17th c fashion modeled after the > European fashions of the time. Also most of the trousers narrow > down..........................snip........................... Well, I didn't say accurate, :-) but do you think this is a starting point for costuming dancers in a more "period" look? Sure, back then they probably danced in "every day" wear, but dancers really want a something that will make them stand out as "dancers". The beaded Cabaret costumes simply scream "Hollywood" but that is what many of the Ren performers base their dress on because they also scream "dancer". It seems the dancers are looking at the Fat Chance Belly Dance/American Tribal style as an appropriate look, but it doesn't really work either. Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 21:38:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15465 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27524; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26004 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:41:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25993 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:40:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NJFa29634 (3988) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.584550a4.25412898@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:40:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: grande assiette cut To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I think that Robin is right about the grande assiette cut being for heavily muscled, or at least extremely active, men with tight garments. My husband, who may not qualify as heavily muscled (he's tall and slim) but does qualify as extremely active, says the padded gambeson he made in this style is the best one he's ever worn. He says it pads the arm all the way around and no matter how you move it protects you and never bunches up or gaps. Reading Robin's post gave us both a "eureka" moment. Not having anything to go by but the Charles the Blois pattern, he sort of made the arms in an arbitrary way. Now we have a way to measure it! So thanks again, Robin. Gail (and Scott) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 21 22:26:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15610 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:26:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04605; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04473 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:39:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04466 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:39:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.123] (sdts10-15.znet.net [207.167.66.15]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA29553 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:39:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:38:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams > >Well, I didn't say accurate, :-) but do you think this is a starting point >for costuming dancers in a more "period" look? "More period" than what? I assume you are talking SCA and Renn faires? --Than cabaret, definitely yes, -- than American Tribal, I dunno, a bit better I guess, but fine for theatrical presentation, -- than the "little Egypt" look, I dunno, its as period as the undercut gawazee. The green outfit was cut ok anyway... I'm sure the lady would cut necklines above the bust if asked, and narrow cuffed trousers aren't hard to make at all. >Sure, back then they >probably danced in "every day" wear, but dancers really want a something >that will make them stand out as "dancers". I don't have a problem with theatre, I have a problem calling it "period". > The beaded Cabaret costumes >simply scream "Hollywood" but that is what many of the Ren performers base >their dress on because they also scream "dancer". It seems the dancers are >looking at the Fat Chance Belly Dance/American Tribal style as an >appropriate look, but it doesn't really work either. > >Amanda I guess the question is "appropriate" for what? Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 00:37:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15708 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14298; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21701 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:50:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21695 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.215] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11eXan-0006PD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:50:22 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991020114430.00c2f930@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:58:53 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) In-Reply-To: References: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Well, I didn't say accurate, :-) but do you think this is a starting point >>for costuming dancers in a more "period" look? > >"More period" than what? I assume you are talking SCA and Renn faires? There were three groups of belly dancers at Northern Ren Faire this year. One group dressed in modern pastels, Lurex, and coin-shaped metal sequin-things (they looked like they'd rented their outfits). The second group wore all ethnic stuff, including large quantities of asuit (that silver-bits-on-mesh stuff), real coins, etc. The third group were the dancers from Mullah's, and I don't know what they were wearing. Then there were the non-belly-dancers dressed in Middle-Eastern-oid Ren Faire clothes (anywhere from what the patrons wore to what some of the folks at Ale 4 wore to the India-stuff the folks at the ethnic clothes booth wore). Mileage varied considerably among this group. It would be interesting to know what category you would put each of these groups into, re. being either Elizabethan-period or authentic Middle-Eastern from any period. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 03:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12215 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:00:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24176; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04788 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:12:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04782 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:12:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Tigershado@aol.com Received: from Tigershado@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QSU0H1Ubg (3964) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.49aa14f2.2541765d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:12:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Dyeing quesion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com > > Another way to proceed is to first strip the color out of the cloth with > > something like the color stripper from RIT. You then have a paler cloth to > > start from. > > I went looking for linen lately and all I could find was some linen/cotton blend in colors I really didn't like. Well, I went ahead and bought some in a light purple with the idea of dyeing it. Threw it in the washer with some RIT color remover and it turned kind of beige. "Ahah!" I think, " This looks like it's going work great." Went back later to dye it and what do I find? On contact with air the fabric had turned light blue! From what little I've read on dye this sounds like how indigo works. Maybe some form of synthetic indigo in this case? This color I like, so I think I'll use it as is to make a leine for Faire (without gathered sleeves). IIRC several people have bought some of the wool gabardine from Phoenix Textiles. Has anybody tried washing some of it yet? My mother bought 10 yds each of the camel, berry, & blue and I haven't had a chance to do any test washing yet. Being from an area that only gets cold for a few weeks a year, this is my first contact with wool outside of US army blankets. Barbara (For email use tigershadow@freewwweb.com not my AOL address.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 03:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12234 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:21:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25260; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA06749 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:34:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06739 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JHFIF9ZSJK001L5J@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:39:01 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JHFIF6O2OM001YZW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:38:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:32:21 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:32:19 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:32:11 +1100 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:32:11 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Re: Treasure Trove!! In-reply-to: <199910211941.NAA01767@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <4027C06AF3@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The > journal of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick > glance through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. And where is it you live, exactly . . . ? *She says, smiling sweetly, innocent expression in her eyes . . .* - ---- Hi Kate, I live in Wimbledon.... South West of London, England. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 10:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13535 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:28:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00341; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00615 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:41:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00604 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06331 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:40:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp237-72.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.72]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13190 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:40:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002e01bf1ca3$aa4d41a0$48edf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA1EC@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Putting powder in pourpoints Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:18:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Cynthia wrote: > Marc & I have been conversing over a particularly mysterious & > problematic section of A. Harmand's "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son > armeur", ch. 10 "Gippon". The section involves putting powder into > pourpoints. I'm reluctant to translate anything I don't understand, hence > the thread & the broader request for comments. Could you give me the exact French sentence in which this is mentioned? I might have an idea. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 10:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13562 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:40:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02391; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04171 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:55:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04156 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FK000F88HHBYX@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:04:22 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Putting powder in pourpoints In-reply-to: <199910221542.JAA01177@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991022110422.00792e00@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson I think I see one of the problems here - when I said when you read "livre" to think "pound", I was referring to the money, not the weight. In France in the Middle Ages, a "Livre" was worth 240 Deniers or 24 Dizains. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 10:46:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13567 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03259; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05543 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:00:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05533 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:00:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991020114430.00c2f930@pop.slip.net> References: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:00:51 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>>Well, I didn't say accurate, :-) but do you think this is a starting point >>>for costuming dancers in a more "period" look? >> >>"More period" than what? I assume you are talking SCA and Renn faires? > >There were three groups of belly dancers at Northern Ren Faire this year. >One group dressed in modern pastels, Lurex, and coin-shaped metal >sequin-things (they looked like they'd rented their outfits). The second >group wore all ethnic stuff, including large quantities of asuit (that >silver-bits-on-mesh stuff), real coins, etc. The third group were the >dancers from Mullah's, and I don't know what they were wearing. Then there >were the non-belly-dancers dressed in Middle-Eastern-oid Ren Faire clothes >(anywhere from what the patrons wore to what some of the folks at Ale 4 >wore to the India-stuff the folks at the ethnic clothes booth wore). >Mileage varied considerably among this group. > >It would be interesting to know what category you would put each of these >groups into, re. being either Elizabethan-period or authentic >Middle-Eastern from any period. > > >Kayta This was not a written policy but those working the faire knew how this worked as there were conversations that were made public, one way or another. The Mulla's people do what they do however they want because they are Mulla's people, and that's ok because they've been grandfathered in. The lurid, lurex pastel troup are there, not because they're so good, not because they're historic but because the new Powers That Be feel that that's what the public expects of belly dancers, forget Middle Eastern dancers. The ethnic group has been asked, from what we hear, to dress more like belly dancers, so the patrons are happy. These are contracted dance troups that dance at the faires; they do not follow the rules set down for participants. I fear the difference may be hard to understand unless you've been to a fair, so I apologize to those of you who have not. Except for the court people and the military (and even the German group is right but about 50-75 years too late) the participants themselves, on the whole, are not really doing any research on their own clothing. They follow the guidelines set by the fairs. As usual, look in books, go by portraits, don't depend on other peoples' research unless you can back it up. LynnD Worked there for 21 years, took sabbatical this time around _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 11:08:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13595 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06490; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10626 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:20:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10610 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991022162001.BUEI23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:20:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:23:35 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Sarees From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3023429015_86716_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19991022162001.BUEI23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3023429015_86716_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For all of you who were interested in this subject I have been pointed to the following website by the South Asian Librarian at UW. http://www.shakti.clara.net/index.html If you fish around some you can see how to wrap them, etc. The illustrations - again you have to fish around a bit - are a lot more realistic in terms of how people actually look in India unless they are very wealthy than most of what I see in print. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3023429015_86716_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sarees For all of you who were interested in this subject I hav= e been pointed to the following website by the South Asian Librarian at UW.<= BR> http://www.shakti.clara.net/index.html
If you fish around some you can see how to wrap t= hem, etc.
The illustrations - again you have to fish around a bit - are a lot more re= alistic in terms of how people actually look in India unless they are very w= ealthy than most of what I see in print.
~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com
 --MS_Mac_OE_3023429015_86716_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 11:45:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13621 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:45:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11858; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19884 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:56:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19872 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:56:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.164] (ppp164.creative.net [208.225.99.164]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18586 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:04:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: Lynn Downward > >This was not a written policy but those working the faire knew how this >worked as there were conversations that were made public, one way or >another. The Mulla's people do what they do however they want because they >are Mulla's people, and that's ok because they've been grandfathered in. >The lurid, lurex pastel troup are there, not because they're so good, not >because they're historic but because the new Powers That Be feel that >that's what the public expects of belly dancers, forget Middle Eastern >dancers. The ethnic group has been asked, from what we hear, to dress more >like belly dancers, so the patrons are happy. These are contracted dance >troups that dance at the faires; they do not follow the rules set down for >participants. I fear the difference may be hard to understand unless >you've been to a fair, so I apologize to those of you who have not. Besides, some of the people who dance at the Mullah's are members of other guilds who dress in whatever they want to dance at the Mullah's. As for the "cabaret" style dancers, well, maybe that's what RenCo thinks the great unwashed expect or want, but Habiru, who dressed in Tribal stuff with asuit and minimal flesh exposure (hands, feet, and faces), never lacked for audience. In fact, the stage where they performed was always packed to very overflowing. It's just another example of RenCo's bad judgment. I also think it was a mistake to cut down on the number and topics of pre-Faire classes required for performers. I think that the historical nature of the Faire, even though far from perfect, was one of the Faire's best points, and made it unlike many others around the US. RenCo, to make a buck or save a buck, are gradually gutting this Faire, which is the grandmother of all the US Renn Faires. It seemed to me that many Faire participants were gradually "upgrading" their costumes to become more authentic - within limits, given the climate (hot and dusty) and the need to wash costumes (yeah, i know, some folks with really spiff costumes don't toss them in the washer, but after all the dust on the outside and sweat on the inside , since i'm upper middle class and in parades, i want to wash mine). I mourn this turn away from even a vague semblance of authenticity and toward the evil god Love-of-Money. (yeah, a Faire's got to make a profit, but does the whole environment of the Faire have to suffer just for a few dollars more?) Enough local politics. I remember this Faire same back in 1970 when it had Flamenco dancers who were definitely not Elizabethan, but i also miss the rather authentic Commedia del Arte troupes who haven't been a regular part of the Faire for a long time. Lilinah who also "sat out" this year _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 12:27:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13705 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20801; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03412 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:43:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03396 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:43:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28006 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-91.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.91]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29145 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011001bf1cb6$9b793220$2edcfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:55:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Photocopies? Beg, beg..grovel, grovel. Michelle (one jealous bunny) -Poster: teddy1 I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? Teddy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 12:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13715 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22388; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05595 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05585 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01868 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-91.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.91]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05399 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014b01bf1cb7$d77623e0$2edcfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:04:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >> >> I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal >> of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance >> through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. >And where is it you live, exactly . . . ? >*She says, smiling sweetly, innocent expression in her eyes . . .* > >Kate Hey, Kate! Isn't that a ski mask and rope in your hand? Why are you wearing that black suit? Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 13:01:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13735 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25784; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11398 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:16:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (scl-viruswall.phoenix.com [134.122.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11383 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 134.122.11.5 by scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:15:41 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPW7TX>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:15:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA3C9@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:15:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Henk> Could you give me the exact French sentence in which this is mentioned? I might have an idea. Bien sur M. 't Jong! There are 4 separate entries. I would love corrections to my translations. The is my 1st shot at something this early. Please give it a go. Note that all I have is a transcription; any punctuation, abbreviations, capitalizations, etc are as they appear in the footnotes of A. Harmand's book. I do not use a french keyboard a cannot type the accents properly; I have instead placed apostrophes after the letters to represent the accents when they appear. Cedilla represented by *. So ugly. Sorry! 1395 - << Jehan de Saligny apoticaire demourant a` paris confesse avoir eu et recu de Jehan Poulain tresorier de monseigneur le duc d'Orle'ans la somme de quarante livres tournois. En quoy le dit seigneur lui estoit tenuz pour quatre livres de poudre que ycclui seigneur a fait prendre rachat de lui pour mettre en quatre pourpoins de satin, l'un de satin vermeil et les III autres de satin noir qu'il fait faire et deliverez c'est assavoir a Mons. de Bourgoigne, au sire del le Tre'moille, a` messire Guill. del la Tre'moille, son fre're et a` messire Elyan de Neilhac.>> Brit. Mus., Add Chart., 2165 <> [ibid.] <> Bibl. nat., fr. 10431, p. 106 <> [ibid.] Again, I'm copying from A. Harmand's "Jeanne d'Arc, ses costumes, son armeur", ch. 10 "Gippon", p.120, 1929. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 13:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13757 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:39:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00562; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20044 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:54:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20025 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991022181431.DEUK29876.ewey.excite.com@spike.excite.com> for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:14:31 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Message-Id: <940616070.23582.276@excite.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:14:30 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > >> I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal > >> of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance > >> through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > > > >And where is it you live, exactly . . . ? > >*She says, smiling sweetly, innocent expression in her eyes . . .* > > > >Kate > Hey, Kate! Isn't that a ski mask and rope in your hand? Why are you wearing > that black suit? > > Michelle Shhhhhhh!!!!! It's an authentic 17th century Highwayman's costume, with appropriate props. Now, don't blow my entrance, I want Teddy to be . . . um . . . surprised! Kate ---- StitchWitch A learned bastard takes precedence over an ignorant high priest. - The Talmud, 5th Cen. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 14:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13871 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:06:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04965; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:22:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26733 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:22:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26711 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.161.252]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991022192217.YCUD21321.fepB.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:22:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3810B7EC.51224905@post12.tele.dk> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:15:57 +0200 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: back again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews Hello all historical costumers. I have been away for a while from this list, but now i am back again. In the pastime i have finished an 18.th century sack dress with pearlembroidery. You can se it if you go to my first homepage below and clicks on the ball gown. Now my project is to make a compleat 1770 mans suit for myself. I have started the lace for the shirt and the cravat today with a new thread in silk. The jacket and the waistcoat are also going to be embroidered all over with a small motif i found at a museum in Lisboa. Glad to be back....... Bjarne Drews -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 15:00:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13919 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:59:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12931; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09522 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:13:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09514 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k427.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.27]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01317 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3810C4AA.3E3D@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:10:18 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: costume in the movies References: <19991021025309.NFWV23886.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi R.L. Shep wrote: > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > Oddly enough *Bravo* is doing a whole week of best dressed movies. > Tonight they did *Shanghai Triad* which was done by a Chinese Director and > set in Shanghai in the 30s... A wonderful mix of western and oriental and > show-girl type costumes. I was a little disappointed in Triad, but I'm re-watching Pascali's Island (also on Bravo -- yes, watching TV in the daytime! what luxury) It has terrific costuming IMHO -- the designer is Pam Tait. I don't know the name, but that doesn't mean anything. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 15:14:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13942 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:14:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14973; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:28:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13277 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial38.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.38]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA12991 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:29:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: H-COST: Seams on German Ren Bodices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/clandwo1.gif Well.. that's the best example on my puter of what I'm trying to accomplish :] German, 1475-1500-ish. (Yes, I know that's a bit later :] ) I'm having problems getting the rounded bust line. All I can seem to get is the flat front, momo-bosom thing going on. I'm curious if I should have a curved centre front seam on my bodice, and curve the side seams in a bit as well. If someone knows of a semi-decent pattern out there (not TOO expensive!), or if there's a web site with an example, that would be the best.. but if you think you can get me to understand directions written down, I'd really appreciate that as well. Thanks! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 16:18:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14022 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23267; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28001 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:31:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27986 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:31:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GOYmC9Nf_ (4329) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c57ca555.2542318a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:30:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Dawn -- You might be the person to answer this question. In past years, I noticed many costumes supplied by "Bermans & Nathans." Now I see costumes supplied by "Angles and Bermans." Is this the same company? Was "B&N" bought out by Angel's? What's the story? Thanks. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 16:49:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14049 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:49:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27638; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05474 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:04:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05464 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:04:07 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6HAYa21033 (3861) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c9c99f3f.25423934@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:03:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/22/1999 5:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << Dawn -- You might be the person to answer this question. In past years, I noticed many costumes supplied by "Bermans & Nathans." Now I see costumes supplied by "Angles and Bermans." Is this the same company? Was "B&N" bought out by Angel's? What's the story? >> I can answer that one. Angels swallowed up Bermans while we were in the middle of filming Queen. It made wrap a little confusing. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 16:59:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14095 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28577; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07572 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:13:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07567 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.185.58] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11emw2-0004Gn-00; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:13:18 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19991022220950.00750540@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:09:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Military Costuming in Movies Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 07:09 PM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: Marionetta@aol.com > > >If you're into Napoleonic costumes (and GUY costume movies) one of the best >in my opinion is The Duelists, with Harvey Keitel. Some of the costumes >looked like they'd come straight out of the military museum in Paris. > >Cheers, > >Loren Dearborn >marionetta@aol.com > _ A superb movie in every degree, as far as I am concerned. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 17:19:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14117 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01095; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11820 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:32:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (scl-viruswall.phoenix.com [134.122.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11808 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 134.122.11.5 by scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:31:59 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPW0FC>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:31:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA49C@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:31:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes Marc>I think I see one of the problems here - when I said when you read "livre" to >think "pound", I was referring to the money, not the weight. In France in the >Middle Ages, a "Livre" was worth 240 Deniers or 24 Dizains. Not to worry. There are places where the text livre refers to weight and others where livre is clearly cash as in "48 l. tournois". Ah, then the mysterious "diz." could even be 1/10 of a livre, then? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 17:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14123 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:29:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02265; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14190 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:43:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web2102.mail.yahoo.com (web2102.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14174 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991022224557.19323.rocketmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.21.255.222] by web2102.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:45:57 PDT Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: h-needlwork ? To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Can someone help me? After being away for a month, I am re-subcribing to my various lists, but h-needlework keeps rejecting me! Does anyone on this list know the secret to subscribing? I have the Majordomo address, but it comes back saying something like, it doesn't like my domain. Well, it like it fine before! Thanks. Kristen M. Sieber _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 17:30:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14129 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02556; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14567 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:45:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14552 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 63.26.11.174 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:45:03 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:51:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bf1ce0$873c6f00$ae0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In response to an earlier comment about a middle eastern dancer "earning her dowry coins" by dancing in the street, I'm curious where this idea came from and what culture. In the Turkish Ethnographic Museum in Bursa, there is a series of bridal garments depicted for the eighteenth century, each one of which involves a good deal of coinage. These are the wedding costumes of virgins who remained all of their lives in seclusion. Painters visiting Turkey were only able to paint the rare female dancer, as no other women (the vast majority, rich or poor) were shielded from males eyes. (Hence so few depictions of women among hundreds of images of men.) If any of the brides had danced in the street, it would have disqualified them for marriage. The coins have a symbolism that extends beyond the dancer. The h-cost writer makes a great story, but is there any shred of historic authencenticity to it? It is not a subject I know much about, admittedly. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 18:16:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14151 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07596; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23689 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:30:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23684 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11841; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3810F421.3088CF3E@serv.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:32:50 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb Subject: H-COST: Masques Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris I have seen one or two pictures showing people in masque clothing, Elizabeth I included. But I was wondering if someone could give me just some general pointers about pre-1600 masques. 1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? 2. Were masks worn 3. Would all clothing norms have flown out the window so to speak? For instance if the masque took place in Elizabeth's court would women have chosen not to wear their corsets if the outfit was say, Greek in the year 300c.e. ? 4. What types of themes might have been popular? Thanks, Merouda/Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 18:40:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14176 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10096; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27703 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:54:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (news.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27691 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm456-18.dialip.mich.net [198.110.21.76]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04933 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3810C2A1.A18C147C@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:01:39 +0000 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Deeply Cut Sleeves (Pourpoints & Houppelands) References: <199910210445.WAA20594@net.indra.com> <380E9C99.C8A85297@utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby This is cool! I've only seen this sleeve and shoulder construction with men's 14th cent. Raella Marc Carlson wrote: > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > > >I would use the term "grande assiette" to refer to an armhole that's > > >deeply cut into the body at the back in a large circular shape. Is that > > >what you're seeing? I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use that > > >armhole with a bag sleeve, though I'd have to see an example to get a > > >sense of how it might be cut. > > > How about cut deeply into the back as an angled piece, such as the Moy > Gown (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.html) > > Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 18:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14187 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10866; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29537 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:06:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29529 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:05:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3810F421.3088CF3E@serv.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:06:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward Merouda, I can speak for Elizabethan England with some expertise but that's all I can guarantee that my knowledge covers correctly. >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >I have seen one or two pictures showing people in masque clothing, >Elizabeth I included. But I was wondering if someone could give me >just some general pointers about pre-1600 masques. > >1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? > >2. Were masks worn > >3. Would all clothing norms have flown out the window so to speak? >For instance if the masque took place in Elizabeth's court would women >have chosen not to wear their corsets if the outfit was say, Greek in >the year 300c.e. ? In Elizabethan England, the women would have work a chiton over their court clothes - corsets, hoops and all. No noblewoman would be seen without her proper underclothing producing the correct silouette (sp?), even for a masque. > >4. What types of themes might have been popular? Religious for the populace (think of the mystery plays so popular from pre-Chaucer times through Shakespeare - although I guess those would be called mummer's plays) and religious and classical for the nobles (Greek and Roman stories of gods and goddesses, Odyssey, masques for the queen comparing her to Venus, Athenae, that sort of stuff). Shakespeare writes of plays within his plays. Think of the masque for the wedding in "Midsummer Night's Dream", where they do indeed wear masks, esp. for Bottom. Speaking of which, did anyone see the PBS program combining the Boston Pops, opera and the Shakespeare and Company actors, all combining to see an interdisciplinary program of Shakespeare? On last night in the S.F Bay area. We let the kids stay up to watch it all.) It was wonderful to see a scene from "Romeo and Juliet" with the ballet music playing in the background and then seeing two people in more modern clothing singing from "West Side Story". I hope you all can see this wonderful program. I know the Shakespeare side, but my opera education is slim - and "Othello" was very powerful, both in the spoken word and in the opera bit. > >Thanks, >Merouda/Cynthia > This only answers half your question. You'll need help from the medievalists for pre-1550. LynnD Rambling a bit, sorry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 19:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14231 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13083; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02853 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:29:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02844 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-41-191.stk.inreach.net [209.142.41.191]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27127 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3811007A.95379D12@inreach.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:25:32 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Seams on German Ren Bodices X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H Kris wrote: > -Poster: Kris > > http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/clandwo1.gif Dear Kris, I have to ask firstly if you are trying to make your dress a historically researched work or if you just want the look that you see in this picture. If the former is the case, then I recommend that you don't use this picture. It not a good resource because it is an Italian artists version of a German gown that has been re-drawn. The partlet (the cape-like thing on her shoulders) isn't a bad example, but the reality pretty much ends there. If the latter is true, I am not sure how to help you fit your bodice. In this particular example, it is difficult to see what is going on in the bodice and whatnot. All I can suggest is that you look at your friendly local book of paintings by Hans Holbein. He was a German painter who did a few paintings and drawings of Burgher's and their wives in Germany. The pictures might be similar to what you are looking for and give better details on what is going on in the bodice. > Well.. that's the best example on my puter of what I'm trying to > accomplish > :] German, 1475-1500-ish. (Yes, I know that's a bit later :] ) I'm > having > problems getting the rounded bust line. All I can seem to get is the > flat > front, momo-bosom thing going on. I'm curious if I should have a > curved > centre front seam on my bodice, and curve the side seams in a bit as > well. > > If someone knows of a semi-decent pattern out there (not TOO > expensive!), > or if there's a web site with an example, that would be the best.. but > if > you think you can get me to understand directions written down, I'd > really > appreciate that as well. As far as I know, there aren't any good German Renn (or earlier) patterns out there. You might (after finding a more detailed example of the style) want to just take a pattern from another country/time period and see if you can modify it. I do this quite often and it usually works fairly well. Just make a muslin pattern and add what you think might be the significant changes. Then fit it to your shape and recut your pattern and fit it again. Repeat until you get the look you want. Usually once or twice will do it. Good luck & HTH! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 21:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14414 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23403; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17400 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:22:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17395 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:22:38 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VHR0fyrX8 (4257) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f9e5fd2d.254275c8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:22:00 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id UAA17396 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/22/1999 8:08:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ldownward@chori.org writes: << Shakespeare writes of plays within his plays. Think of the masque for the wedding in "Midsummer Night's Dream", where they do indeed wear masks, esp. for Bottom. >> A more typical masque is presented in "The Tempest"...where spirits represent Juno, Ceres, Iris and other allegorical characters. It's a bit later but the operas of Monteverdi are obviously recently derived from masques. "L'Orfeo" opens with a prologue sung by "La Musica". The begining of "L'Incoronazione Di Poppea" has a duel between "Fortuna", "Virtù" and "Amore". Pastoral scenes are popular [lots of this in "L'Orfeo"] Both of these operas are on video, with costumes early 17th century. Lot's of Roman armor with full bottomed wigs. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 21:13:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14423 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:13:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23954; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18062 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:28:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18057 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21076 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 02:28:33 -0000 Received: from 32.70.3-10.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.32) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 02:28:33 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991022193009.3ac73004@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: film costumes (well, TV, but...) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:51 PM 10/19/99 -0500, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > >-Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > >This is TV, but it's historical, so.... > >What about one of my favorite shows, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman? > >I realize that her attitudes would not have been the norm at that time >period, but what about the clothes? Women's in particular? As far as I >could tell, they at least were all somewhat corsetted. You do get to see >the underwear in some episodes. > >There was one two-parter about midway thru the series run when the family >went to Washington DC to get a pardon or something for Sully. In the >course of the two episodes, there were THREE White House balls - talk about >acres of hoopskirts! > >I'm interested in the opinions of those who know - as opposed to yours >truly who mostly does fantasy stuff. > >Sandy I have only seen one or two episodes (no TV at home). But my first impression was a blending of about 40 years of women's fashions into one show. The shirtwaist (modern term is blouse) and skirt combination became widespread in the 1890s. Large hoop skirts went out by the end of the 1860s. And the medical knowlege seemed a bit too advanced for the apparent time period. All in all, it's not historical, though the costumes are nice in their own way. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 21:20:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14435 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:20:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24466; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18875 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:34:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18867 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial29.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.29]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA15211 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991022193605.00793c30@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:36:05 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices In-Reply-To: <3811007A.95379D12@inreach.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >-Poster: Diana H >I have to ask firstly if you are trying to make your dress a >historically researched work or if you just want the look that you see >in this picture. If the former is the case, then I recommend that you >don't use this picture. It not a good resource because it is an Italian >artists version of a German gown that has been re-drawn. The partlet Yeah.. I know it's not a good example :] I have all sorts of photocopies here at home, but with no scanner, I can't get them up onto my site.. I've found another that's *slightly* better. http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE34AX.HTML You see how the bust is being supported somewhat in a Victorian shape? (I know that could be part of the re-drawing of the figures in the book :] But I've seen it in a couple of library books too..) *that's* what I want. The sleeves are the way I've got mine done, and I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could point me towards the original for this drawing. PLEASE! :] I'm finding that I have a major problem getting the curve of the bust. I'm having one heck of a time fitting it. I know what style of bodice I need, and I've got the sleeves and the shoulder area down pat, but that one, important spot is driving me nuts! The one I made last weekend ended up having a somewhat flat front on it, that I had to bone it because it was wrinkling so badly. And I used canvas and about 5 or 6 pieces of heavy interfacing basted together. *sigh* It looks good, but it's not what I was trying to achieve. Kris ps.. I've seen many portraits of the young women having a sheer shawl tucked around their neckline into the top of the bodice when the bodice is very low cut. I think the pictures were italian or dutch, but could that apply to a young german girl too? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 21:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14467 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:41:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26209; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21417 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:56:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21409 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camelot (ip24.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.24]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26474 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00b901bf1d01$7eb61c20$fd611f26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <011001bf1cb6$9b793220$2edcfea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:51:22 -0500 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" I think we would ALL LOVE YOU if you would share with us ! I know I would. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!!! If not on the list, then maybe personal email ? Diane ( new at this and needing help ! ) ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:55 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Photocopies? Beg, beg..grovel, grovel. > > Michelle (one jealous bunny) > > > > -Poster: teddy1 > I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal > of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance > through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > > Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? > > Teddy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 22:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14601 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02131; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28449 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:01:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28444 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-83.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FK10042OF32PW@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:59:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:58:49 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <38113279.C71EE1BE@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910230258.UAA21570@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > > Not to worry. There are places where the text livre refers to weight > and others where livre is clearly cash as in "48 l. tournois"... Curiously, there is a possibility that "livre tournais" could refer to a unit of weight, since the different regions had different standards of weight (the ultimate reason for the French developing the metric system). > Ah, then the mysterious "diz." could even be 1/10 of a livre, then? Although this is possible too. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 23:01:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14633 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:01:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03290; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00306 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:16:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00298 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 9445 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 04:16:17 -0000 Received: from 32.70.3-10.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.32) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 04:16:17 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991022211755.3a97dad6@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: h-needlwork ? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 03:45 PM 10/22/99 -0700, Kristen Morgaine Sieber wrote: > >-Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber > >Can someone help me? After being away for a month, I >am re-subcribing to my various lists, but h-needlework >keeps rejecting me! Does anyone on this list know the >secret to subscribing? I have the Majordomo address, >but it comes back saying something like, it doesn't >like my domain. Well, it like it fine before! >Thanks. > >Kristen M. Sieber Kristen, At the end of my h-needlework messages is the following message: Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. Have you tried this yet? Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 23:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14657 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02419; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28793 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:04:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28786 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-83.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FK10044IF8SPW@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:02:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:02:15 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Deeply Cut Sleeves (Pourpoints & Houppelands) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <38113347.92913CBC@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910230258.UAA21570@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > > This is cool! I've only seen this sleeve and shoulder construction > with men's 14th cent. That's what I thought as well, although I have now seen a few paintings (the citations for which have wandered off this evening) with this sort of cut on woman's gowns. The range of arm movement, though is really interesting. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 23:09:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14665 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03753; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01112 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:24:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01107 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.22] (sdts10-22.znet.net [207.167.66.22]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA25787 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:23:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Seams on German Ren Bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Kris > >http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/clandwo1.gif > >Well.. that's the best example on my puter of what I'm trying to accomplish >:] German, 1475-1500-ish. (Yes, I know that's a bit later :] ) and its Swiss.... I'm having >problems getting the rounded bust line. All I can seem to get is the flat >front, momo-bosom thing going on. I'm curious if I should have a curved >centre front seam on my bodice, and curve the side seams in a bit as well. Yes. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 22 23:09:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14669 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03775; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:26:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01134 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:24:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01125 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:24:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.22] (sdts10-22.znet.net [207.167.66.22]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA25811 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:24:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991020114430.00c2f930@pop.slip.net> References: <199910220245.VAA10875@discordia.io.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:23:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >It would be interesting to know what category you would put each of these >groups into, re. being either Elizabethan-period or authentic >Middle-Eastern from any period. > How about "entertainment for the masses"? :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 00:16:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14798 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07693; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:32:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08300 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:30:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08294 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.210] (ppp210.creative.net [208.225.99.210]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14510 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201bf1ce0$873c6f00$ae0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> References: <000201bf1ce0$873c6f00$ae0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:38:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: RE: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id XAA08295 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >In response to an earlier comment about a middle eastern >dancer "earning her dowry coins" by dancing in the street, >I'm curious where this idea came from and what culture. (snip interesting stuff Hope says about Turkey) Additionally, from what i know of the Near East (North Africa), daughters would not have been dancing in the streets for money, except perhaps for a few women from a very few tribal or sub-cultural groups, such as the Ouled Naïl, the Gnawa, and one or two others which may specialize in dancing (and are often considered to be low class for it). While the coins decorating some garments and accessories are indeed part of a woman's dowry, by no means did the average girl earn them by dancing for money. Her family saved up for her dowry. Some of her labor may have been involved, if the women in her region or tribe wove or made ceramics or helped harvest crops or helped take care of the flocks, but certainly not by public displays. I've seen some late 19th and early 20th c. art by Western educated North Africans, and generally women are depicted dancing only with other women in the privacy of their home, not in front of men, even family. >The coins have a >symbolism that extends beyond the dancer. The h-cost writer >makes a great story, but is there any shred of historic >authencenticity to it? I suspect a bit of fantasy courtesy of 19th and early 20th c. European exoticists. This trend is illustrated by many of the paintings in "Serpent of the Nile", which show women dancing half naked in public - like that nearly naked nubile Bedouin girl dancing on a rug in the middle of the desert half-surrounded by older men - NOT at all the way Bedouins behave! These are the fantasies of European men - and the artists may have paid some "not so nice" women to pose for them, but it doesn't represent what was really happening in the culture nor how the average young woman behaved, as the author of "Serpent of the Nile" points out. Anahita Gauri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 04:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11382 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 04:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18639; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01644 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:27:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01033 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.70.130]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991023092817.FUET15140.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:28:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3811E581.7BE1@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:42:41 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favorite Costuming in Movies References: <0.c9c99f3f.25423934@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/22/1999 5:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Appin1@aol.com writes: > > << > Dawn -- > > You might be the person to answer this question. In past years, I noticed > many costumes supplied by "Bermans & Nathans." Now I see costumes supplied > by "Angles and Bermans." Is this the same company? Was "B&N" bought out by > Angel's? What's the story? > >> > > I can answer that one. Angels swallowed up Bermans while we were in the > middle of filming Queen. It made wrap a little confusing. they certainly did and what a big mouth Tim Angel has. I was working on some costumes for the musical Blue Angel at the time which had been ordered by Bermans. I went in on the friday for fittings and then on the Monday to deliver imagine my horror, sorry surprise to see Angels had moved in. Particularly when Tim said that they wouldn't pay for any work oredered by Bermans!!! Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 08:04:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11560 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28269; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19339 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:18:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19334 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 63.26.11.72 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:18:15 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:26:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bf1d5a$847b52c0$480b1a3f@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks for this very informative answer. The take on exoticism in Western 19th century painters attitudes makes a lot of sense to me! I think the attitudes, rumors, and twisting of information of subsequent generations is as interesting and meaningful in its own way as the original "facts" --- just helpful to differentiate one from the other. By the way, my original post should have referred to the bridal costumes in the Bursa Ethnographic Museum as nineteenth century, not eighteenth. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lilinah biti-Anat > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 1:39 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) > > > > -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > >In response to an earlier comment about a middle eastern > >dancer "earning her dowry coins" by dancing in the street, > >I'm curious where this idea came from and what culture. > > (snip interesting stuff Hope says about Turkey) > > Additionally, from what i know of the Near East (North Africa), > daughters would not have been dancing in the streets for money, > except perhaps for a few women from a very few tribal or sub-cultural > groups, such as the Ouled Naïl, the Gnawa, and one or two others > which may specialize in dancing (and are often considered to be low > class for it). > > While the coins decorating some garments and accessories are indeed > part of a woman's dowry, by no means did the average girl earn them > by dancing for money. Her family saved up for her dowry. Some of her > labor may have been involved, if the women in her region or tribe > wove or made ceramics or helped harvest crops or helped take care of > the flocks, but certainly not by public displays. > > I've seen some late 19th and early 20th c. art by Western educated > North Africans, and generally women are depicted dancing only with > other women in the privacy of their home, not in front of men, even > family. > > >The coins have a > >symbolism that extends beyond the dancer. The h-cost writer > >makes a great story, but is there any shred of historic > >authencenticity to it? > > I suspect a bit of fantasy courtesy of 19th and early 20th c. > European exoticists. This trend is illustrated by many of the > paintings in "Serpent of the Nile", which show women dancing half > naked in public - like that nearly naked nubile Bedouin girl dancing > on a rug in the middle of the desert half-surrounded by older men - > NOT at all the way Bedouins behave! These are the fantasies of > European men - and the artists may have paid some "not so nice" women > to pose for them, but it doesn't represent what was really happening > in the culture nor how the average young woman behaved, as the author > of "Serpent of the Nile" points out. > > Anahita Gauri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 10:55:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11743 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:55:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11231; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09059 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:09:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09054 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.44]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991023160415.PAWT5315.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:04:15 +0100 Message-ID: <38124409.9EE@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:26:01 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress References: <001901bf1b5d$2c515760$b96e38d4@cdc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Sally Ann Chandler wrote: > > -Poster: "Sally Ann Chandler" > > Have you tried Tom Norbury? He can manage most things and will be at the > Re-enactors Market at Oxford next month. As far as I know Tom doesn't make hats himself he ges them made at the factory in Luton we buy our felts from. They can't make cszapskas which are extremely complicated and not very cost effective as the demand these days is not great enough Andrew actually spoke to them about making the hats for him but they weren't interested. The only other company that makes them is an MOD company which doesn't do retail they are also made from flocked fibreglass which is why the army have now decided to go back to the original method of manufacture as the regiments don't like the fibreglass ones. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 10:56:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11747 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11234; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09039 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:09:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09030 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.122.44]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991023160809.HUH25751.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:08:09 +0100 Message-ID: <38124273.56CF@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:19:15 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Treasure Trove!! References: <4027C06AF3@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn teddy1 wrote: > > -Poster: teddy1 > > > I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The > > journal of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick > > glance through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > > By the way I've been meaning to ask which bit of middlesex Uni are you in. I used to be costume technician/pt lecturer with the BAPA students at Trent Park when it was still the polytechnic Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 12:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11790 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19300; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22360 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:54:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb09.swip.net (mb09.swip.net [193.12.122.212]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22355; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.151.244.221] (d212-151-244-221.swipnet.se [212.151.244.221]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08404; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:54:08 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2CE99B08DC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:38:07 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Ninni Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ninni Pettersson At 15.17 +0100 99-10-21, teddy1 wrote: >I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal >of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance >through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > >Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? No, you are a very naughty, indeed evil, bunny, saying things like that straight out without preparing us first. The more sensitive of us might get a heart attack from the shock (or possibly from the envy :-) /Ninni ------------------------------------------------------------ "How I loathe haste and violence and all that ghastly, slippery cleverness. Unsound, unscholarly, insincere - nothing but propaganda and special pleading and 'what do we get out of this?' No time, no peace, no silence; nothing but conferences and newspapers and public speeches till one can't hear one's self think." -- Lord Peter Wimsey c. 1935 ------------------------------------------------------------ Ninni M Pettersson --- Stockholm, Sweden --- vidumavi@swipnet.se _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 13:15:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11837 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 13:15:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21614; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25224 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:18:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25216 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29011 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:18:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp207-39.worldonline.nl [195.241.207.39]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13563 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:18:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000701bf1d82$da7c5ac0$27cff1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA3C9@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:29:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hello, Cynthia wrote: > There are 4 separate entries. I would love corrections to my translations. > The is my 1st shot at something this early. Please give it a go. Note that > all I have is a transcription; any punctuation, abbreviations, > capitalizations, etc are as they appear in the footnotes of A. Harmand's > book. I do not use a french keyboard a cannot type the accents properly; I > have instead placed apostrophes after the letters to represent the accents > when they appear. Cedilla represented by *. So ugly. Sorry! > I confess I'm flabbergasted. I've never heard of putting powder in pourpoints before and I thought maybe the translation wasn't correct. It seems to be allright, though (well done, Cynthia, only a few question marks, see below). 'Poudre' is quite close to 'foudre' and 'fourre' which can mean 'lining with fur', or 'fourni' which might mean 'filled with something'. It still may be a mistake in the transcription, but this seems to be a bit farfetched, although these things happened quite frequently while rewriting medieval mss in modern languages. Of course 'poudre' might be powdered gold, which they had, to decorate the pourpoints, although I've never heard of late 14th c pourpoints being decorated in this way. As Robin suggested it might also be golden objects being 'powdered' or stitched in a repeating pattern over the finished garment, but I think this would have been written down differently. It's not really period either. > 1395 - << Jehan de Saligny apoticaire demourant a` paris confesse (this is more 'acknowledging' than 'confessing') > avoir eu et recu de Jehan Poulain tresorier de monseigneur le duc d'Orle'ans > la somme de quarante livres tournois. En quoy le dit seigneur lui estoit > tenuz pour quatre livres de poudre que ycclui seigneur a fait prendre rachat > de lui pour mettre en quatre pourpoins de satin, l'un de satin vermeil (more like rose-red, vermillion = vermillion or firy red, vermeil might even mean mingled) et > les III autres de satin noir qu'il fait faire et deliverez c'est assavoir a > Mons. de Bourgoigne, au sire del le Tre'moille, a` messire Guill. del la > Tre'moille, son fre're et a` messire Elyan de Neilhac.>> Brit. Mus., Add > Chart., 2165 > This really looks like the apothecary has sold 40 livres worth of powder (or 4 pounds in weight) to put on or in pourpoints. He would not sell fur and although he might make powdered gold (which was sometimes used as a part of medicine) I can only assume that the powder was used between the layers of cloth pourpoints consisted of. To kill vermin if and when encountered? Beats me... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 21:35:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12639 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02530; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24486 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:50:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@[206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24474 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial6.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.6]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA05654 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991023195210.007a2850@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:52:10 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: H-COST: What are the pieces? Victorian Basque.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris I'm trying to make this to wear in 2 weeks! I've drawn everything out & have the front (1) fitting perfectly. However, I can't really figure out what the rest of the pieces are.. Help! :] This is a teensy pic.. 12 kb gif file, so anyone should be able to load it.. http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/glb1-57dip2.gif 1 - Well, it can only be the front :] 2 - I think that this is the back. With the flat line on the bottom being the part cut on the fold. 3 - I think that this is the "skirt" part of the basque. Attached at the hip.. 4 - the collar? 5 - the sleeve? This is what the finished product is supposed to resemble (it's a little bigger) http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/glb1-57di2.gif I'm going to continue making up the muslim as what I think the pieces are, and find out by trial and error. Of course, having someone tell me what is supposed to be sewn to what is much easier :] Thank you! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 21:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12677 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:53:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04093; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26440 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:09:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from stout.entertain.com (root@stout.entertain.com [199.45.153.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26430 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xpert.net (ppp014.xpert.net [204.144.221.66]) by stout.entertain.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA20142 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <380E7940.685555A1@xpert.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:24:00 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lee X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity References: <0.27ee6220.2532aa6f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lee Sorry it took so long to reply, again, catching up on back posts, and also _finding_ the pattern. I am also wrong about it being Simplicity (tho' I think they do have a similar one). The one I have is Butterick See 'n' Sew 3986. I add about 12-15 inches to the length of the pattern, and widen from the hips to the width of the doubled-over material (so I am cutting 2 pieces at the same time). This works on both 44" and 60" material. (of course you will get a fuller skirt with the 60" material) Elysant@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Elysant@aol.com > > -Poster: > > >I have also found one of the "It's so Easy" simplicity patterns for a modern > day > >dress, 8-gore with princess seams, that was easily adapted to a cotehardie > >pattern > If I find the pattern envelope, I will >post the number (if people are > interested). > Could you please? > > Thanks > > Elysant _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 23 22:18:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12754 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05809; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29256 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:34:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29250 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18209 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 03:34:31 -0000 Received: from 66.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.66) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 03:34:31 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991023204342.3a175388@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: What are the pieces? Victorian Basque.. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 07:52 PM 10/23/99 -0700, Kris wrote: > >-Poster: Kris > >I'm trying to make this to wear in 2 weeks! >I've drawn everything out & have the front (1) fitting perfectly. However, >I can't really figure out what the rest of the pieces are.. Help! :] > >This is a teensy pic.. 12 kb gif file, so anyone should be able to load it.. >http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/glb1-57dip2.gif > >1 - Well, it can only be the front :] >2 - I think that this is the back. With the flat line on the bottom being >the part cut on the fold. Yes. "Seam" D is the center back, cut on the fold. >3 - I think that this is the "skirt" part of the basque. Attached at the hip.. Yes. It is cut with the back of the ruffle on the fold. But note that the description with the basque illustration says that the "front of the skirt is not so deep as the back". It seems that the pattern is incorrect since it labels both the front and back "seams" as 9 in. Perhaps the back "seam" should be 10 in. and the Piece 5 should be a ruffle in the back of the skirt. >4 - the collar? No. Piece 4 is the side back; that curved part at the bottom is the lower part of the armscye. The seam labeled "C 12 in." attaches to the curved seam labeled "C 12 in." on Piece 2. The seam labeled "B 9 in." attaches to the side seam of the front Piece 1, which is also labeled "9 in.". >5 - the sleeve? This is the confusing one. The description with the picture of the basque indicates that there are two pieces for the skirt and doesn't mention the sleeve. But Piece 5 mentions "sleeve" on two of the four sides of the pattern; but I don't see how one can get a sleeve head of any sort out of that pattern, even if you put the straight line on the fold. Too bad that there is no illustration of the back of the basque. >I'm going to continue making up the muslim as what I think the pieces are, >and find out by trial and error. Of course, having someone tell me what is >supposed to be sewn to what is much easier :] > >Thank you! >Kris At least I could help with Piece 4 . You need to make your own pattern for the collar and, if my guess about Piece 5 being part of the skirt is correct, the sleeves (which might be simpler to do than fuss with Piece 5 and try to make a sleeve out of it). If you have Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage & Screen, Patterns for Women's Dress 1800-1909", she has a sleeve pattern that looks like the sleeve on the basque. Good luck, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 00:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13018 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:17:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16932; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12655 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:33:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12647 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA18865 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:32:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:32:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199910240532.WAA18865@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: I did it! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Hi everyone! I met this weekend with the potential investor for my costume pattern business, and we shook hands on the deal this afternoon. (In the parking lot at a Ren Faire, which seems appropriate). We're on our way! I want to thank everyone on this list who helped me gather information for my business plan, who suggested names, who prayed for me, sent encouraging messages, and for all the other wonderful support and help I've gotten. Also, thanks to the list mistresses, past and present, who've kept this list going and given me a place to learn and grow and gain confidence. Three years ago, I wouldn't have felt capable of doing this project: Now, thanks to all of you, I've got a shot at making my dreams come true. This is sounding like an Oscar speech, I know, but I had to tell all of you how very grateful I am for your help. I know that I'll be asking for, and getting, much more over the next year or so, while I work to bring the product to market. Thanks to all of you, Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 01:35:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13057 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:35:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21421; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19485 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:51:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19476 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:51:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port69.imag.net [204.244.111.69]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25673 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006401bf1dec$61cd6000$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:52:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello, I have just picked up this thread, and think I may have an alternate answer (at the risk of sounding out to lunch!)for the "powder". Perhaps it is duck or goose down? I recall some reference to the down as "powder", and I wish I could remember where! Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Henk 't Jong - tScapreel To: h-costume@indra.com Date: October 23, 1999 11:24 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints > >-Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > > >Hello, > >Cynthia wrote: >> There are 4 separate entries. I would love corrections to my >translations. >> The is my 1st shot at something this early. Please give it a go. Note >that >> all I have is a transcription; any punctuation, abbreviations, >> capitalizations, etc are as they appear in the footnotes of A. Harmand's >> book. I do not use a french keyboard a cannot type the accents properly; I >> have instead placed apostrophes after the letters to represent the accents >> when they appear. Cedilla represented by *. So ugly. Sorry! >> >I confess I'm flabbergasted. I've never heard of putting powder in >pourpoints before and I thought maybe the translation wasn't correct. It >seems to be allright, though (well done, Cynthia, only a few question marks, >see below). 'Poudre' is quite close to 'foudre' and 'fourre' which can mean >'lining with fur', or 'fourni' which might mean 'filled with something'. It >still may be a mistake in the transcription, but this seems to be a bit >farfetched, although these things happened quite frequently while rewriting >medieval mss in modern languages. > >Of course 'poudre' might be powdered gold, which they had, to decorate the >pourpoints, although I've never heard of late 14th c pourpoints being >decorated in this way. > >As Robin suggested it might also be golden objects being 'powdered' or >stitched in a repeating pattern over the finished garment, but I think this >would have been written down differently. It's not really period either. > >> 1395 - << Jehan de Saligny apoticaire demourant a` paris confesse (this is >more 'acknowledging' than 'confessing') >> avoir eu et recu de Jehan Poulain tresorier de monseigneur le duc >d'Orle'ans >> la somme de quarante livres tournois. En quoy le dit seigneur lui estoit >> tenuz pour quatre livres de poudre que ycclui seigneur a fait prendre >rachat >> de lui pour mettre en quatre pourpoins de satin, l'un de satin vermeil >(more like rose-red, vermillion = vermillion or firy red, vermeil might even >mean mingled) et >> les III autres de satin noir qu'il fait faire et deliverez c'est assavoir >a >> Mons. de Bourgoigne, au sire del le Tre'moille, a` messire Guill. del la >> Tre'moille, son fre're et a` messire Elyan de Neilhac.>> Brit. Mus., Add >> Chart., 2165 >> >This really looks like the apothecary has sold 40 livres worth of powder (or >4 pounds in weight) to put on or in pourpoints. He would not sell fur and >although he might make powdered gold (which was sometimes used as a part of >medicine) I can only assume that the powder was used between the layers of >cloth pourpoints consisted of. To kill vermin if and when encountered? Beats >me... > >Henk > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 10:11:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09971 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18273; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26860 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:27:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay.citynet.net (relay.citynet.net [206.101.104.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26849 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 16623 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 15:27:07 -0000 Received: from main.citynet.net (206.101.104.67) by relay.citynet.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 15:27:07 -0000 Received: from default (bk2-87.citynet.net [207.0.255.87]) by main.citynet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA31828 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:27:05 -0400 Message-ID: <004201bf1e35$010b9720$57ff00cf@default> From: "mann" To: References: <199910230258.UAA21570@net.indra.com> Subject: H-COST: Re. masques Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:32:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "mann" From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:32:50 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Masques - -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris I have seen one or two pictures showing people in masque clothing, Elizabeth I included. But I was wondering if someone could give me just some general pointers about pre-1600 masques. (the information I got out of the book "the Wives of Henry VIII" by Alison Wier-secondary source) 1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? She says that masques because popular in England during Henry VIII's reign--I think around 1520) 2. Were masks worn variable 3. Would all clothing norms have flown out the window so to speak? did not really say 4. What types of themes might have been popular? mostly religious or of mythological theme Hope this helps Philippa Graves _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 10:18:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09975 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:18:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18673; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27635 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:34:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27630 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.210] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5ED13CD0154; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:29:49 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01bf1e35$7334bfc0$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <199910240532.WAA18865@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:35:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" Congratulations Margo! I've enjoyed reading your messages leading up to this point and hope you won't get too busy to keep us filled in on all the fun that's ahead as you live your dream. :-D Many blessings, Kerrie ----- Original Message ----- From: Margo Anderson To: Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 1:32 AM Subject: H-COST: I did it! > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Hi everyone! I met this weekend with the potential investor for my costume > pattern business, and we shook hands on the deal this afternoon. (In the > parking lot at a Ren Faire, which seems appropriate). We're on our way! > > I want to thank everyone on this list who helped me gather information for > my business plan, who suggested names, who prayed for me, sent encouraging > messages, and for all the other wonderful support and help I've gotten. > > Also, thanks to the list mistresses, past and present, who've kept this list > going and given me a place to learn and grow and gain confidence. Three > years ago, I wouldn't have felt capable of doing this project: Now, thanks > to all of you, I've got a shot at making my dreams come true. > > This is sounding like an Oscar speech, I know, but I had to tell all of you > how very grateful I am for your help. I know that I'll be asking for, and > getting, much more over the next year or so, while I work to bring the > product to market. > > Thanks to all of you, > > Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 10:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09990 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21278; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01885 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:05:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01875 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:05:23 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EPP5TF6J; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:04:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:04:59 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: back again Message-ID: <19991024.110508.-278293.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Welcome back! I went to your site and took a look around. Very nice! I was particularly impressed by the 'butterfly' collar you put on the late Elizabethan gown at Selsoe Castle. And the embroidery and jeweling you did on the Josephine gown. How did you pick that shade of pink for the dress? I was under the impression that Regency colors were a bit softer (not paler, just softer) than the one you chose. Do you have period sources for it? Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 12:20:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10082 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:20:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00352; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12706 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:35:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12698 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port068.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.68]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA21808 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:35:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3812E914.28886995@ndh.net> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:10:14 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: I did it! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef Congratulations Margo ! I wish you all the best for you and your business and hope that you`ll be selling your patterns to Europe, too :-) ! Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 12:25:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10086 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00744; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13459 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13448 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13942 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp211-59.worldonline.nl [195.241.211.59]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12819 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <0.a3a40146.253e99de@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:35:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Someone wrote: > << I'm sure we, as a historic costumer, are some of the best flaw finders and > NO ONE likes to watch programs with us. >> If and when we start viewing a costumefilm on tv or video with the family, especially if it's situated between the classic period and, say, ca 1820, I get a ban on reacting on costume, sword- or rapierfighting, heraldry, arms and armour, architecture in sets or real buildings (shown as how they now are, not as they were then: especially churches and castles), household implements, etc. by my spouse and sons. There's not much left to enjoy after that ;-( I normally just make notes in a special notebook, and waite till I can see this movie on my own and can rave and rant in private ;-) Sometimes though, if the movie is very good, I just forget te react... And while viewing Braveheart even my loved ones could not stop me cursing this abominable product!!! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 12:25:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10090 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:25:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00846; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13463 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13451 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13958 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp211-59.worldonline.nl [195.241.211.59]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12827 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006b01bf1e46$f4131ae0$3bd3f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <3810F421.3088CF3E@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:40:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Cynthia wrote: > 1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? Not as such. Masqued revels were sometimes part of tournaments, courtdances, seasonal festivals like Carnaval and Christmas. These last since antique times. > > 2. Were masks worn Yes. > 4. What types of themes might have been popular? During the middle ages animal masks were very popular, as were masks of devils, angels, saints, etc. during mystery plays. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 12:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10094 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:26:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00745; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13450 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13437 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13906 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp211-59.worldonline.nl [195.241.211.59]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12803 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:41:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006801bf1e46$f1af3a40$3bd3f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <013001bf1b2c$613a87c0$171ffea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: terminology Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:09:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF1E53.3E9F2840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF1E53.3E9F2840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Michelle wondered what the following meant: Si non e vero, e ben trovato, huh? If it isn't true, it's at least a good find, eh? Henk ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF1E53.3E9F2840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michelle wondered what the following=20 meant:
Si non e vero, e ben trovato, = huh?
 
If it isn't true, it's at least a = good find,=20 eh?
 
Henk
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF1E53.3E9F2840-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 13:08:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10140 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04951; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18341 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.2.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18332 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p176.amax19.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.176]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08809 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:23:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38134DF8.78E2C1CF@flash.net> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:20:41 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: h-needlwork ? References: <19991022224557.19323.rocketmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Kristen Morgaine Sieber wrote: > Can someone help me? After being away for a month, I > am re-subcribing to my various lists, but h-needlework > keeps rejecting me! Does anyone on this list know the > secret to subscribing? I have the Majordomo address, > but it comes back saying something like, it doesn't > like my domain. Well, it like it fine before! > Thanks. Answered privately. --Charlene, h-needlework administrator -- Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 15:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10295 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:22:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17691; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02762 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:37:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@[206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02757 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial15.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.15]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA24147 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991024133832.00797590@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:38:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: What are the pieces? Victorian Basque.. In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19991023204342.3a175388@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 09:34 PM 23/10/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Joan M Jurancich >>4 - the collar? > >No. Piece 4 is the side back; that curved part at the bottom is the lower >part of the armscye. The seam labeled "C 12 in." attaches to the curved seam >labeled "C 12 in." on Piece 2. The seam labeled "B 9 in." attaches to the >side seam of the front Piece 1, which is also labeled "9 in.". Ack! this is the one I got totally wrong :] Thanks very much.. this will be so much easier to fit when I get that last piece in there. No wonder it was wrinkling in the curve between the waist and the hip! Now I'll have more room in the arm hole, and I'll be able to make up my own sleeve pattern (I'm changing it a bit, because it doesn't have to be TOTALLT authentic :]) Thanks so much! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 15:51:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10357 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20911; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06468 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:07:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06453 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn4.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.123]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17812 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <008901bf1e63$e91f4740$7bf0a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <199910240532.WAA18865@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:08:14 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Congratulations, Margo,and much luck and prosperity! When they're ready, will your patterns be available through your website? All Health! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 16:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10390 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:27:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24043; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10485 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:42:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10480 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial26.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.26]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA24486 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991024144342.007a7c30@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:43:42 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: What are the pieces? Victorian Basque.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991024133832.00797590@antir.com> References: <2.2.16.19991023204342.3a175388@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris http://victorian.fortunecity.com/bacon/175/glb1-57dip2.gif Ok.. I finally did it! The only place I added fabric was to the centre front.. about 1-1/2 inches worth. Otherwise, the thing fits me perfectly! I suppose it was intended for a woman measuring 38-28-38 or so, because the hip area was a little snug (easily altered) and the waist was a leetle big with the undergarments I have. Yay! It's really easy to enlarge this pattern, and really easy to put together. The only difficult part I believe I will have now is getting the sleeves to fit right, because I don't have any pattern books handy (or patterns that have sleeves..), and the local library doesn't carry them. Oh well! Hopefully I'll be able to afford to have pictures of this developed soon, just so I can show off my first vaguely Victorian clothes :] Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 16:43:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10452 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25351; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12186 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:58:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca (hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca [207.107.250.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12173 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from suchanek (spc-isp-van-uas-31-102.sprint.ca [209.148.183.49]) by hme0.mailrouter01.sprint.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA05711 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005601bf1e6b$109b2440$31b794d1@suchanek> From: "suchanek" To: Subject: H-COST: standing collar c.1600 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:58:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "suchanek" Hi! I am new to the list. You will see right away from my questions that I am not a costumer. I am a lacemaker specializing in hand made bobbin lace. I do see a lot of historical costumes when I study lace, mainly from old paintings. I am working on a lace trim for a standing collar/band of an early 17th century. I am using a technique of bobbin lace and patterns from the book Le Pompe (published in Venice, 1556). I decided to make the trim from fine silver wire. It holds shape beautifully and that is just what I need for the spiky scallops. But the trim will be heavier than if it was made from thread. The question: How do I make the collar to stand up? Special cut? Interfacing? I intend to make the collar from velvet, which is quite heavy fabric on its own. I do not have enough experience to judge if it will work. Is the idea of standing velvet collar with metal lace trim feasible? Can you recommend me a book/source for finding patterns for costumes with standing bands/collars and matching cuffs of c.1600-1620? Lenka Art of Hand-made Lace http://www.silverpinstudio.com e-mail: lenka@silverpinstudio.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 16:53:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10496 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:53:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26096; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13630 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:10:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13616 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.192] (ppp192.creative.net [208.225.99.192]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09846 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> References: <0.a3a40146.253e99de@aol.com> <006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:18:40 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" wrote: > >Sometimes though, if the movie is very good, I just forget te react... And >while viewing Braveheart even my loved ones could not stop me cursing this >abominable product!!! Hear! Hear! Ok, i don't usually post "Me, too!"s, but i just have to for this one. Because of the acclaim, i had expected much more from Braveheart. But it was pathetic in every respect. I was astonished it got the Oscar (tm) for best movie, considering the "weenie waving" scene and the prudery in so much of the US (yeah, i know, "sex sells", but it has to be "just the right kind" of sex) (and, of course, many other pathetic films get Oscars (tm)). My daughter was angry with me because i mocked the film nearly from start to finish (and, sheesh, it was on TWO video cassettes). I usually have more self-control and I'll let all sorts of egregious errors go by if i'm enjoying the movie. (although my daughter finally admitted that she thought it wasn't particularly good either, she just didn't want to hear my endless comments :-) I'm just glad i saw it at home and not in a movie theater. The thought of so many shots of Mel Gibson's scruffy face as tall and as wide as the theater makes me cringe - i fortunately only had to see it, repeated over and over unnecessarily, on my little TV. Besides, in a theater, the audience would probably have dragged my into the lobby and pummelled me :-) Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 17:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10524 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28102; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16122 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:31:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16102 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA12011 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:01:00 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA01264; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:00:59 +0930 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:00:58 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! In-Reply-To: <199910240532.WAA18865@apollo.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Hi everyone! I met this weekend with the potential investor for my costume > pattern business, and we shook hands on the deal this afternoon. (In the > parking lot at a Ren Faire, which seems appropriate). We're on our way! > Woohoo!!! Way to go Margo! You give hope to all of us who want to do things more authentically. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 17:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10531 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:23:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28668; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17104 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:38:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17097; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA11730; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:08:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA00935; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:08:24 +0930 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:08:24 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques In-Reply-To: <004201bf1e35$010b9720$57ff00cf@default> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, mann wrote: > 1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? > She says that masques because popular in England during Henry VIII's > reign--I think around 1520) I recall reading that at one time a ball or feast would be 'interrupted' by mysterious strangers wearing masks or sometimes dressed as wild men or the like. However I can't remember when this was popular though my brain does associate it with Henry VIII The revellers would recite verses in honour of guests or otherwise entertain them. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 17:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10537 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29192; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18145 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:47:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18140 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.129] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11fWQU-0007GW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:47:47 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:44:08 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers In-Reply-To: References: <006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> <0.a3a40146.253e99de@aol.com> <006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Braveheart. My daughter's only positive comment was that she liked the Irishman. I felt it was good for modern audiences to get up front and personal at the execution, because most don't realize how it was. But that was about it. -- Carol, putting in my own bit _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 17:44:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10543 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00578; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19575 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:00:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19565 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:00:46 -0600 (MDT) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SAIdqc2Z_ (3977) for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.cde75f91.2544e97d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:00:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: standing collar c.1600 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com Have you considered using buckrum/buckram (something like that)? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 17:50:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10550 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:50:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01387; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20205 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:05:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20189 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA22338 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009201bf1e74$f6e67040$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:10:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Braveheart. My daughter's only positive comment was that she liked the >Irishman. I felt it was good for modern audiences to get up front and >personal at the execution, because most don't realize how it was. But that >was about it. -- Carol, putting in my own bit I've often been criticized in other forums for answering honestly when asked whether "Braveheart" was accurate or not. "It's only entertainment! It's only a movie!" Well, truth be told, it was no great shakes from a moviemaking standpoint, either, relying way too much on its epic scale and pulling on the heartstrings (those bad, nasty, evil, English--heck, I think they're even called "pagan" in the opening sequence--imposing "right of the first night" (which never existed in Scotland, if it existed anywhere) on the poor, downtrodden Scots; that shot of the mournful bride tearfully bidding farewell IN SLOW MOTION to her new husband so that the lord can take his "right"--blecch!) for its effect. Frankly, I was bored. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 18:23:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10569 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04289; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24635 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:39:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24627 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:39:42 -0600 (MDT) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6UEOaALiG_ (4332) for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3e6bc560.2544f29e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:39:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 17 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 10/24/99 6:40:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, csmart@physics.adelaide.edu.au writes: << I recall reading that at one time a ball or feast would be 'interrupted' by mysterious strangers wearing masks or sometimes dressed as wild men or the like. However I can't remember when this was popular though my brain does associate it with Henry VIII The revellers would recite verses in honour of guests or otherwise entertain them. >> This is entierly theoretical.... In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo and his friends crash the ball in masks. I remmeber from my HS freshman English class that this was a tradition that was accepted and masked guests of even a rival faction would be tolerated as long as they didn't make trouble. I don't know if they meant this about Shakespeare's time or in Juliet's Verona, or if it's even true, but it's something. -Alison Stacy acstacy@cc.owu.edu AliaClaire@aol.com Ohio Wesleyan University _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 19:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10826 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08235; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00188 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:20:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00179 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15123 invoked by alias); 25 Oct 1999 00:20:49 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 15117 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 1999 00:20:48 -0000 Received: from bdsl104.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.104) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 00:20:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991024191846.00984650@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:20:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: standing collar c.1600 In-Reply-To: <005601bf1e6b$109b2440$31b794d1@suchanek> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" I suspect your velvet band will be strong enough to hold up the lace by itself. If not, use a Victorian solution and add stays (you can use men's collar stays, trimmed to length) in little casings on the back of the collar. If you prefer interfacing, I would recommend some non-woven, polyester stuff or stiff canvas rather than buckram. Kim At 02:58 PM 10/24/1999 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: "suchanek" > >Hi! I am new to the list. You will see right away from my questions that I >am not a costumer. I am a lacemaker specializing in hand made bobbin lace. >I do see a lot of historical costumes when I study lace, mainly from old >paintings. > >I am working on a lace trim for a standing collar/band of an early 17th >century. >I am using a technique of bobbin lace and patterns from the book Le Pompe >(published in Venice, 1556). I decided to make the trim from fine silver >wire. It holds shape beautifully and that is just what I need for the spiky >scallops. But the trim will be heavier than if it was made from thread. >The question: How do I make the collar to stand up? Special cut? >Interfacing? >I intend to make the collar from velvet, which is quite heavy fabric on its >own. I do not have enough experience to judge if it will work. Is the idea >of standing velvet collar with metal lace trim feasible? >Can you recommend me a book/source for finding patterns for costumes with >standing bands/collars and matching cuffs of c.1600-1620? > >Lenka >Art of Hand-made Lace http://www.silverpinstudio.com >e-mail: lenka@silverpinstudio.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 19:44:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10987 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:44:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11917; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04620 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:00:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04591 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09838 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:58:56 -0700 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:58:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199910250058.RAA09838@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > When they're ready, will your patterns be available through >your website? > We'll be setting up a seperate website for the business, as soon as we decided on a name...because we found out Saturday that "Regalia" is being used by a trim merchant, which is just too close. So now I get to go BACK over all those suggestions and think about it some more. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 19:44:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10991 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11914; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04547 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:59:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04542 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:59:39 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip53.van24.pacifier.com [216.65.139.53]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id RAA01303 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910250059.RAA01303@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:04:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques Priority: normal In-reply-to: <0.3e6bc560.2544f29e@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > << I recall reading that at one time a ball or feast would be 'interrupted' > by mysterious strangers wearing masks or sometimes dressed as wild men > or the like. However I can't remember when this was popular though > my brain does associate it with Henry VIII > The revellers would recite verses in honour of guests or otherwise > entertain them. >> > This is entierly theoretical.... > > In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo and his friends crash the ball in masks. I > remmeber from my HS freshman English class that this was a tradition that was > accepted and masked guests of even a rival faction would be tolerated as long > as they didn't make trouble. I don't know if they meant this about > Shakespeare's time or in Juliet's Verona, or if it's even true, but it's > something. Shakespeare didn't make it up. He probably got the idea from either history (as there were descriptions of this kind of thing occurring well before the 16th C) or from what he saw or heard of the courts of the time. In either Splendor at Court by Roy Strong or Renaissance Theatre Costuming by Stella Mary Newton there is a drawing or watercolor of a ball where "wild men" came and interrupted. It's a lovely source too as it shows people in their regular clothing in the background of the activities going on where ladies in "old costumes" from the previous century being abducted by these wild men. There are also others from that same series which show details of backs of women's wear (which is something which made me look more than once as we don't get those details usually.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 22:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11221 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01492; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02943 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:55:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02926 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA13719 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:25:36 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA00764; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:32:32 +0930 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:32:26 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: costume list Subject: H-COST: More dying Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant Since people have been talking about dying lately I have a couple of questions about dying silk. 1. I have a piece of silk that is orange. I'm not overly fond of orange, and I realise I could overdye it to a darker colour quite easily, but for what I have in mind for it, it would look better as a pale colour. Any suggestions of a way to fade or remove the colour without damaging the fabric? (I have access to Rit or Dylon products here but that's about it). 2. I have some silk taffeta that I also wish to dye, but I would like to retain the 'crisp' quality of the fabric if possible. Would I be better off using a cold water dye? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 23:10:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11241 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04068; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06443 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:25:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06438 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:25:37 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QGHa29648 (4595) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.7b795db7.2545359a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:24:58 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/24/1999 7:40:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AliaClaire@aol.com writes: << In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo and his friends crash the ball in masks. I remmeber from my HS freshman English class that this was a tradition that was accepted and masked guests of even a rival faction would be tolerated as long as they didn't make trouble. I don't know if they meant this about Shakespeare's time or in Juliet's Verona, or if it's even true, but it's something. >> This of course is done also in "Don Giovanni" and its roots "Don Juan"....which is Spanish and I've always thought was mid to late 16th century, but I don't know it could come from an earlier source. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 24 23:36:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11278 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06313; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09316 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:51:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09310 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.153] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11fc6e-0000DM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:51:41 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:48:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! In-Reply-To: <199910250058.RAA09838@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 05:58 PM 10/24/1999 -0700, you wrote:-Poster: Margo Anderson >We'll be setting up a seperate website for the business, as soon as we >decided on a name...because we found out Saturday that "Regalia" is being >used by a trim merchant, which is just too close. So now I get to go BACK >over all those suggestions and think about it some more. Well, I'm sorry that you have to start over, in one sense, but since I never cared for Regalia, for the reasons I stated, I'll pray that whatever name you choose will be perfect and will bring you business! Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 03:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07807 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 03:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18308; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 02:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA29466 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 02:32:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29460 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 02:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16403.; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:37:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:30:53 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:16:56 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Standing bands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id CAA29462 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Lenka - It's earlier in the century than the period I do, but my understanding is that standing bands were made of white linen (like the later falling bands) and held up by a wire frame called an underpropper. I've never heard of a velvet one. The silver lace sounds lovely. Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, Sealed Knot _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 04:09:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07911 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 04:09:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21727; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 03:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA07308 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 03:22:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07178 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 03:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JHJQZA1EQ8003FL2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:27:19 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JHJQZ9BOW00036IM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:27:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:20:40 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:20:24 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:20:15 +1100 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:20:15 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #735 In-reply-to: <199910231819.MAA25437@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <88F7A26269@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hi Dawn > By the way I've been meaning to ask which bit of middlesex Uni are > you in. I used to be costume technician/pt lecturer with the BAPA > students at Trent Park when it was still the polytechnic Bounds Green in the department that buys in and catalogues the books for the libraries at all the sites.... The Issues of costume I've been given are ones withdrawn from the Library at Trent Park > - -Poster: Ninni Pettersson > > >Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? > > No, you are a very naughty, indeed evil, bunny, saying things > like that straight out without preparing us first. The more > sensitive of us might get a heart attack from the shock (or > possibly from the envy :-) Oh, Ninni, does this mean you aren't going to come @round the silk mill and museum with me when I come to Stockholm in November...? .... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 04:49:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08016 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 04:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23263; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 04:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02356 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 04:04:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepE.post.tele.dk (fepE.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02349 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 04:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.215.222.53]) by fepE.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991025100429.TAXC16362.fepE.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:04:29 +0200 Message-ID: <381429AE.3B47906B@post12.tele.dk> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:58:06 +0200 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: standing collar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews Yes as i know it, the standing bands or collars were made in white holland lawn. They were made with small darts at the neckedge so that the fabric could be straight in the grid all way arround. These darts together with the starching helped the collar to stand right. Some of them were also edged with wire. I have never seen a standing collar in the time made in velvet, but if you want to make one, you could make small pockets at the wrong side and bone it. Bjarne in Copenhagen. -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 07:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08152 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:30:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03269; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16750 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:43:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16735 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alltel.net (r-251.102.alltel.net [166.102.251.102]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.3/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id HAA14938 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:43:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38145034.6A78B53D@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:42:28 -0400 From: "jmhr@alltel.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: museum of costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "jmhr@alltel.net" Can anyone help me with an address (snail mail) for the Fasion Research Centre at the Museum of Costume, Bath? All email I've tried is returned as undeliverable. thanks! Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 09:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08282 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12980; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03055 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:29:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03039 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19991025143032.16805.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.161.4.112] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:30:32 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:30:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Valerie Robertson Subject: Re: H-COST: standing collar To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Valerie Robertson In the V&As "400 Years of Fashion" they show an undercollar made of pink satin which goes with a ca. 1600 overcoat. It's stiffened by being sewn over cardboard strips. The one on display is a reproduction made from taking the pattern of the original (now very fragile) one. The lace collar lays on top of this. -Val --- leif drews wrote: > > -Poster: leif drews > > Yes as i know it, the standing bands or collars were > made in white > holland lawn. They were made with small darts at the > neckedge so that > the fabric could be straight in the grid all way > arround. These darts > together with the starching helped the collar to > stand right. > Some of them were also edged with wire. > I have never seen a standing collar in the time made > in velvet, but if > you want to make one, you could make small pockets > at the wrong side and > bone it. > Bjarne in Copenhagen. > -- > > > Leif Drews > Åboulevard 5, 3 th > 1635 København V > > Bjarne Drews > Åboulevard 5,3.th > 1635 København V > > tlf. 35 37 13 70 > > Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph > > Homepage: > http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html ===== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 09:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08303 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:32:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15748; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA07084 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:46:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07069 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (1Cust121.tnt3.west-palm-beach.fl.da.uu.net [63.22.38.121]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22671 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001d01bf1ef8$57f10840$d42a1a3f@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica D. Pence" To: References: <38145034.6A78B53D@alltel.net> Subject: H-COST: museum of costume Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:49:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica D. Pence" < Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08314 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17339; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09782 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:57:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepC.post.tele.dk (fepC.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09773 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.164.95]) by fepC.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991025145708.LOCK20801.fepC.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:57:08 +0200 Message-ID: <38146E43.F002B4AB@post12.tele.dk> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:50:43 +0200 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: V&A supportasse Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews Dear Valerie and others. Apropos this supportasse from the V&A in London. Does anybody know if there is made a pattern of this? I have tryed to reconstrukt it from a picture, but i have failed each time. I think that this type is particular good with the cardboard strips, and cheap also. I would be very interrested in hearing of any books or other thing about this supportasse. Bjarne Drews Valerie Robertson skrev: > -Poster: Valerie Robertson > > In the V&As "400 Years of Fashion" they show an > undercollar made of pink satin which goes with a ca. > 1600 overcoat. It's stiffened by being sewn over > cardboard strips. The one on display is a > reproduction made from taking the pattern of the > original (now very fragile) one. The lace collar lays > on top of this. > -Val > > --- leif drews wrote: > > > > -Poster: leif drews > > > > Yes as i know it, the standing bands or collars were > > made in white > > holland lawn. They were made with small darts at the > > neckedge so that > > the fabric could be straight in the grid all way > > arround. These darts > > together with the starching helped the collar to > > stand right. > > Some of them were also edged with wire. > > I have never seen a standing collar in the time made > > in velvet, but if > > you want to make one, you could make small pockets > > at the wrong side and > > bone it. > > Bjarne in Copenhagen. > > -- > > > > > > Leif Drews > > Åboulevard 5, 3 th > > 1635 København V > > > > Bjarne Drews > > Åboulevard 5,3.th > > 1635 København V > > > > tlf. 35 37 13 70 > > > > Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph > > > > Homepage: > > http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html > > > > -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 11:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08485 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01405; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02779 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:18:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (sugar-land.dowell.slb.com [163.185.127.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02770 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hjones-sgl ([163.188.50.83]) by mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34589U510L100S0) with SMTP id AAA85 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:13:50 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19991025111049.00a3f8e0@mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com> X-Sender: williamson@mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:18:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Heather Jones" Subject: H-COST: tapestries and hats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather Jones" Hello everyone, I don't believe I've posted to this list before, but I have learned quite a bit from everyone so far. I am hoping someone can help me now. Could someone point me to a URL where I can view the Unicorn tapestries in color? I found one site, but the scanned pictures are B/W. Also, could someone point me to a good resource (on line preferably) with men's Italian headgear? I am looking for men's hats for 1450-1550 or thereabouts, and my schedule does not permit me to get to a library during business hours. Thanks in advance, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 11:31:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08565 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:31:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06461; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10581 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:45:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10566 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13730 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:45:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp213-158.worldonline.nl [195.241.213.158]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12251 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:44:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bf1f08$2a56e340$9ed5f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <006401bf1dec$61cd6000$03000004@van1282> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:56:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Zelda wrote: > I have just picked up this thread, and think I may have an alternate answer > (at the risk of sounding out to lunch!)for the "powder". Perhaps it is duck > or goose down? I recall some reference to the down as "powder", and I wish > I could remember where! This might be the powderpuff. In French this would be: 'houppe a poudrer'. So the word is there, but I doubt if the pourpoints were fileld with powderpuffs. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 11:34:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08569 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07034; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11313 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:48:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11301 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16325 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:48:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp213-158.worldonline.nl [195.241.213.158]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12238 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:44:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000201bf1f08$295b1e20$9ed5f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <199910240532.WAA18865@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:51:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Margo wrote: > Hi everyone! I met this weekend with the potential investor for my costume > pattern business, and we shook hands on the deal this afternoon. (In the > parking lot at a Ren Faire, which seems appropriate). We're on our way! Congratulations, Margo. I hope you'll find happiness and fulfilment in your craft. It so happens that my sister is also going official in her costumers business (strictly medieval) right next month, after having worked for tScapreel and several re-enactment and living history societies for several years as a side job. I gave here your businessplan and contract some years ago to read and that started her off then. Now she's about ready to take the plunge too. We are at the moment all helping her to realise her dream, like you did yours. Good luck, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 13:50:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08774 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:50:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00559; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:03:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19183 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:03:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19173 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991025190302.EHRD8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:03:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3814A98F.B8650799@home.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:03:43 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! References: <199910250058.RAA09838@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Now all I want to know is... how many patterns will you be starting with, what period will they be, how much will they be and will you have discounts or a 'pattern club' (e.g. buy 6 get 1 free)? Excited? Me? Getting patterns from someone I trust to get it right? Naaaaaah. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 14:23:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10356 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05931; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28165 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:36:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28153 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18408 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:35:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:35:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199910251935.MAA18408@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: I did it! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:03 PM 10/25/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Now all I want to know is... how many patterns will you be starting >with, what period will they be, how much will they be and will you have >discounts or a 'pattern club' (e.g. buy 6 get 1 free I'll be starting with one pattern, but it'll be a doozy... A complete Elizabethan lady's wardrobe, including underpinnings and accesories. A similar man's package will follow in about six months. Other Elizabethan period patterns, including children's and various ethnic styles, will come later, as will patterns for other periods. At present we plan to concentrate on the pre-18th century period, as later periods seem to already be fairly well represented in the pattern business. One of our plans, down the road, is to have other designers make patterns and/or write documentation for them. I already have a commitment for this from an expert in one of the popular ethnic groups. When the time comes, I'll be recruiting from this list. It won't be for several years, but if any of you are experts in specific styles, start thinking about it. Yes, I'd like to offer the list members a discount. I'll have to look into how I can do this effectively. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 14:52:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11519 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:52:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10169; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05812 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:06:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca (hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca [207.107.250.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05785 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from suchanek (spc-isp-van-58-06-619.sprint.ca [209.148.238.112]) by hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04990 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <017e01bf1f24$7f8a0a60$70ee94d1@suchanek> From: "suchanek" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Standing bands Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:06:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "suchanek" KATE wrote > > Lenka - It's earlier in the century than the period I do, but my understanding is that >standing bands were made of white linen (like the later falling bands) and held up by a >wire frame called an underpropper. I've never heard of a velvet one. I have never seen velvet one either, just linen. The project that I am working on doesn't have to be historically correct though. It is just a variation on a theme of early plaited lace and I will use only black velvet and silver. I will try suggested support techniques. Thank you all for replies! Lenka _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 15:39:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12663 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:39:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16951; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18093 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:53:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18085 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16066 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3814C3D6.2864C7B5@serv.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:55:51 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques References: <199910230127.SAA04545@eclipse.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Thanks everyone! There have been some really good replies. All the books are here at the University of Washington and I have checked them out. So, I'm well on my way. Many thanks, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 16:09:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25506 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:09:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21084; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25420 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25407 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OLV0Sj40Q (4010) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.6bf8a21.254623ee@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:21:50 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: masques To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Arbeau's "Orchesography" describes masque costume for one of the dances, Buffens. It was a performed dance but it was part of a masque, not a theatrical performance. Dancers don't wear masks. "The dancers are dressed in small corslets, with fringe epaulets and fringe hanging from beneath their belts over a silken ground. Their helmets are made of gilded cardboard, their arms are bare and they wear bells upon their legs and carry a sword in the right hand and a shield in the left." (translation by Mary Stewart Evans) So in this case it seems that the dancers wore their regular clothes and added a few props. Oh, and it's French, 1580. Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 17:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25761 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:14:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01486; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12181 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:27:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12168 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-31.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.31]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA17712 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991025181210.00b325b0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:12:10 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques In-Reply-To: References: <004201bf1e35$010b9720$57ff00cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I recall reading that at one time a ball or feast would be 'interrupted' >by mysterious strangers wearing masks or sometimes dressed as wild men >or the like. However I can't remember when this was popular though >my brain does associate it with Henry VIII >The revellers would recite verses in honour of guests or otherwise >entertain them. Well, in the book called "Medieval Pagentry" by Bryan Holme there is copy of an illumination from "Froissart's Chronicles", French 15th century. Which depicts the story of the Charles VI dressing up with a group as "wildmen" who were set on fire. The king was rescued by the young Duchesse du Berry when she recognised him and threw her train over the king and extinguished the flames. It was apparently a masquerade devised by Huget de Guisay. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:02:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26233 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20485; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16460 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:16:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (halcyon.rmci.net [205.162.184.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA16451 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20848 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 02:17:22 -0000 Received: from pag-di99.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.99) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 02:17:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3814FFEA.DE1F3125@rica.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:12:11 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? References: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey As with any film set in the Regency, I am constantly scrutinizing the costumes. Did anybody catch that George Osborne's sister at one point is wearing the dress that Jane Fairfax wears to Emma's wedding in the Miramax film? It is most definitely the exact gown (see link below). And I know I've seen Becky's ballgown from the officer's ball before. I recognize the lace and the sleeve detailing. Someone's been robbing the costume stash! Lots of fun things to drool over in this production. Sure wish I could find some of those gorgeous Indian shawls. Yummy. Cheers, Jennie Link: http://www.sensibility.com/vintageimages/1800s/images/Janefairfax.jpg -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:02:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26237 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:02:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20750; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16758 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16749 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (aus-as3-119.io.com [208.2.106.119]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26460 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:18:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199910260118.UAA26460@discordia.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsies and dancers Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:21:54 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" Boy, you're a tough audience :-) > >Well, I didn't say accurate, :-) but do you think this is a starting point > >for costuming dancers in a more "period" look? > > "More period" than what? I assume you are talking SCA and Renn faires? There seems to be a very strong attitude on this list about authenticity especially at the Faire events. I thought this was the place to ask what works best for dancers. > >Sure, back then they > >probably danced in "every day" wear, but dancers really want a something > >that will make them stand out as "dancers". > > I don't have a problem with theatre, I have a problem calling it "period". What do you call "period"? > I guess the question is "appropriate" for what? Appropriate for taking us back in our imaginations. Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:10:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26247 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:10:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21737; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18022 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:25:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18011 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:25:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NWIa17057 (4465) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.515b2a8d.25465cfb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:25:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/25/1999 6:30:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dnunn@interlog.com writes: << It was apparently a masquerade devised by Huget de Guisay. >> And Edgar Allen Poe ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26255 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22157; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18569 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:29:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18553 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:29:37 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ULGa03806 (4465) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3973fe55.25465dd9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:28:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/25/1999 9:18:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jchancey@rica.net writes: << As with any film set in the Regency, I am constantly scrutinizing the costumes. Did anybody catch that George Osborne's sister at one point is wearing the dress that Jane Fairfax wears to Emma's wedding in the Miramax film? It is most definitely the exact gown (see link below). And I know I've seen Becky's ballgown from the officer's ball before. I recognize the lace and the sleeve detailing. Someone's been robbing the costume stash! >> This is always fun. There's a dress from Dangerous Liaisons that was originally worn by Swoozie Kurts that shows up in lots of 18th century shows. Perhaps you know it? It's cherry pink with a stomacher of ribbon loops fanning upward. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26363 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26369; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24276 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:06:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24267 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991026020607.JLHE8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:06:07 -0700 Message-ID: <38150CB3.1A43B199@home.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:06:44 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" , "Costumers@onelist.com" Subject: H-COST: 1926 HELP! "Inherit the Wind" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent We're doing "Inherit the Wind" for my dad's fall play. My problem is that, once again, he has more females than males. Some of which are playing male parts... as in attorneys! I know that at least one *must* have a jacket in the play because she has to take it off. Any suggestions? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26373 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:52:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26598; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24527 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:07:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (scl-viruswall.phoenix.com [134.122.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA24522 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 134.122.11.5 by scl-viruswall.phoenix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:07:21 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by scl-ims.phoenix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QYPXTZB>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:07:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA7DB@scl-exch.phoenix.com> From: Cynthia Barnes To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:07:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Barnes >> 1395 - << Jehan de Saligny apoticaire demourant a` paris confesse >> avoir eu et recu de Jehan Poulain tresorier de monseigneur le duc d'Orle'ans >> la somme de quarante livres tournois. En quoy le dit seigneur lui estoit<> >> tenuz pour quatre livres de poudre que ycclui seigneur a fait prendre rachat >> de lui pour mettre en quatre pourpoins de satin, l'un de satin vermeil et >> les III autres de satin noir qu'il fait faire et deliverez c'est assavoir a >> Mons. de Bourgoigne, au sire del le Tre'moille, a` messire Guill. del la >> Tre'moille, son fre're et a` messire Elyan de Neilhac.>> Brit. Mus., Add >> Chart., 2165 Henk> (more like rose-red, vermillion = vermillion or firy red, vermeil might even mean mingled) Henk> This really looks like the apothecary has sold 40 livres worth of powder (or 4 pounds in weight) to put on or in pourpoints. He would not sell fur and although he might make powdered gold (which was sometimes used as a part of medicine) I can only assume that the powder was used between the layers of cloth pourpoints consisted of. To kill vermin if and when encountered? Beats me... Vermeil: what could "mingled" possibly mean in this context? A variety of colors? a 2-toned damask? Did you have a guess on "c'est assavoir"; And to everyone who offered a guess from feathers to spangles to perfume to vermicide to sorcery, thanks for the help; I'll keep an eye out for references. There's nothing like an obscure mystery, huh? And, for what it's worth, A. Harmand, author of "Jeanne d'Arc", didnt have an answer to the mystery either. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 23:04:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26644 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:04:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11936; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18377 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:18:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18369 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.163.122]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991026041754.RBCU12296@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:17:54 +0000 Message-ID: <38152BB5.59504149@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:19:01 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? References: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> <3814FFEA.DE1F3125@rica.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Jennie Chancey wrote: > > -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > As with any film set in the Regency, I am constantly scrutinizing the > costumes. Did anybody catch that George Osborne's sister at one point > is wearing the dress that Jane Fairfax wears to Emma's wedding in the > Miramax film? It is most definitely the exact gown (see link below). > And I know I've seen Becky's ballgown from the officer's ball before. I > recognize the lace and the sleeve detailing. Someone's been robbing the > costume stash! I taped Vanity Fair and watched the last episode of the Aristocrats on Masterpiece Theater instead. I loved the fact that they had the younger women in this last episode wearing the more "fashionable" styles of the 1790s (including hair) while the older ladies who the story centered around continued to wear more Georgian styles. > Lots of fun things to drool over in this production. Sure wish I could > find some of those gorgeous Indian shawls. Yummy. Funny you should mention that - I was reading in the LA Times last week about indian pashmanis shawls which are the *hot* fashion item this season. Not entirely period looking from the sound of it, but they mentioned that many of the upper end shawls had nice metallic embroideries on them. I'm looking forward to these hitting the second hand market in a few years (btw, they pointed out that the word "pashmani" means a combination of silk and cashmere fibers - that's all). Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 23:45:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26691 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:45:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15735; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25450 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:00:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25442 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.230] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11fyiT-0001L1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991025214030.00c36ee0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:03:47 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: V&A supportasse In-Reply-To: <38146E43.F002B4AB@post12.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I don't know how the one in the V&A was made, but a theatre-major friend of mine made one for me in 1972. It worked fine. There was a U-shaped wire sewn along the neck edge which was longer than the neck edge at both ends of the U and stuck out a few inches on each side. This wire had loops at each end which took ribbon ties which were sewn to the bodice. Once tied, the ribbons were not visible under the "collar". Having the support attached to the bodice by these wires made it stand at just the right angle to support the "collar". It's anyone's guess where my friend got the idea. >Apropos this supportasse from the V&A in London. Does anybody know if >there is made a pattern of this? >I have tryed to reconstrukt it from a picture, but i have failed each >time. > >I think that this type is particular good with the cardboard strips, and >cheap also. >I would be very interrested in hearing of any books or other thing about >this supportasse. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Oct 25 23:56:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26718 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:56:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16545; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26741 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:11:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26735 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-138.radiks.net [206.29.243.140]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11819 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:09:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991026001023.0068f094@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:10:23 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Unicorn Tapestry In-Reply-To: <199910251648.KAA11351@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: "Heather Jones" > >Could someone point me to a URL where I can view the Unicorn tapestries in >color? I found one site, but the scanned pictures are B/W. > This isn't a URL, but we just got a book from the museum store of the Norton-Simon Art Museum in Kansas City, MO, called: The Unicorn Tapestries at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, by Adolfo Salvatore Cavallo. It's published by the Met thru Harry N. Abrams publishers. ISBN(s): 0-87099-868-4 (museum hc), 0-87099-869-2 (museum paperbk), 0-8209-3947-9 (Abrams hc). It has 77 color plates and shows closeups of many areas. I don't remember exactly how much it was, I think around $40 (hardcover). It may be available from Amazon for less, esp. if you can get the paperback. Not sure if this is the exact tapestries you need, but this is a good book. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 04:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23776 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:25:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01556; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18543 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:40:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18357 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.161.37]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991026094039.GLUS386.fepB.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:40:39 +0200 Message-ID: <38157569.B0F07F10@post12.tele.dk> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:33:29 +0200 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "pashmani" shawls References: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> <3814FFEA.DE1F3125@rica.net> <38152BB5.59504149@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews I have seen pictures of these, they are very much popular amongst royalties here in "europe" But those i have seen is only plain, without embroidery, but i think they are made in many many colours, as those i saw matched the dresses compleatly. Bjarne Drews in Copenhagen where it is raining and dark, dark Carolyn Richardson skrev: > -Poster: Carolyn Richardson > > Jennie Chancey wrote: > > > > -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > > > As with any film set in the Regency, I am constantly scrutinizing the > > costumes. Did anybody catch that George Osborne's sister at one point > > is wearing the dress that Jane Fairfax wears to Emma's wedding in the > > Miramax film? It is most definitely the exact gown (see link below). > > And I know I've seen Becky's ballgown from the officer's ball before. I > > recognize the lace and the sleeve detailing. Someone's been robbing the > > costume stash! > > I taped Vanity Fair and watched the last episode of the Aristocrats on > Masterpiece Theater instead. I loved the fact that they had the younger > women in this last episode wearing the more "fashionable" styles of the > 1790s (including hair) while the older ladies who the story centered > around continued to wear more Georgian styles. > > > Lots of fun things to drool over in this production. Sure wish I could > > find some of those gorgeous Indian shawls. Yummy. > > Funny you should mention that - I was reading in the LA Times last week > about indian pashmanis shawls which are the *hot* fashion item this > season. Not entirely period looking from the sound of it, but they > mentioned that many of the upper end shawls had nice metallic > embroideries on them. I'm looking forward to these hitting the second > hand market in a few years (btw, they pointed out that the word > "pashmani" means a combination of silk and cashmere fibers - that's > all). > > Carolyn -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 07:59:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09351 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:59:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12843; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10283 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:14:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10268 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA08067 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301bf1fb4$931eb220$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:26:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" A new question for all of you: is there a pattern from the big three (simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, etc.) for a praire dress that has any basis in reality? For example, Simplicity 8755 has little sleeve ruffles and a hat that I can't figure out. I know McCalls has two patterns, don't have the numbers handy, one of which looks to be like a standard Renn Faire chemise with a belt. Which would be the closest to what was? Or are all of these merely TV versions of a child's dress? (Bear with me, this is not my area of study at all). Any pointers? Thank you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 08:11:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09377 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:11:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13688; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12060 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:27:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12053 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:27:21 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ZDGyJcak_ (3984) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ce3ad381.25470615@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:26:45 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Jennie, Cosprop manager told us that most costumes are returned "to stock" after filming. That makes them available for other films/TV productions. Very possible that the same dress was seen in other productions. However, with the increase interest in costumes, they are reserving some for exhibition and not re-makes and re-wearings. Cosprop ran an ad in American Association of Museums magazine about their exhibition costume opportunities. Enjoy hunting for more duplications, Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 08:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09393 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16436; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16297 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:52:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16290; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910261352.HAA16290@net.indra.com> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Time Travelers Ball Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" Hello If you live in California or are planning a trip come join us March 4th 2000 for an evening of Dancing and Socializing with everyone from the Past,Present, and Future. The Fashioner's of Fancy present our first annual "Time Travelers Ball". >From whatever time you reside in, put on your best clothes, masks, and dance Time away to the music of Swingtime We will dance to everything and anything from the Waltz to maybe the Time Warp. To help pass the time between the dances there will be Party Games, No-host Wine bar, and Finger Food with Punch and Coffee. There will also be an Opportunity Drawing for a basket of Goodies that will make any Costumer drool. So please join us, tickets are $15.00 per person in advance, and $18.00 at the door. Please dress in any time period you would like, we just ask that it be Formal for it's time, and masks will not be required, but are highly encouraged. The Doors open at 7pm with the Music starting at 8pm. With the coming of Midnight, we all return to our respective times. The Ball will be held at the Clunie Clubhouse at 601 Alhambra Blvd, Sacramento. Please see map at our web site. For more information please either explore our Web Site at http://www.2xtreme.net/madly/GSACG/index.htm or E-mail us at madly@2xtreme.net. Yours Stephen Bergdahl VP and Webmaster for the GSACG. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 08:39:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09397 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16729; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:54:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16537 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:54:01 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip99.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.99]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id GAA26699 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910261353.GAA26699@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:58:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: V&A supportasse Priority: normal In-reply-to: <38146E43.F002B4AB@post12.tele.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Apropos this supportasse from the V&A in London. Does anybody know if > there is made a pattern of this? I don't remember seeing any patterns of it. > I have tryed to reconstrukt it from a picture, but i have failed each > time. > > I think that this type is particular good with the cardboard strips, and > cheap also. > I would be very interrested in hearing of any books or other thing about > this supportasse. According to the V&A display, it is made of "paste" which we would probably all cardboard. It is covered with satin. There are actually 2 on display at the V&A costume room. One is hung on the wall and the other is on the mannikin wearing the surcoat which is also in Janet Arnold. Perhaps you could make it to London and see it for real. (Pictures aren't as helpful as seeing from multiple directions. Next time I get the chance I'm going to do some drawings because even the multiple photographs I took don't get all the details!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09464 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:05:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20269; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21953 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:19:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fepC.post.tele.dk (fepC.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21946 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk ([195.249.234.198]) by fepC.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991026141929.SOWB20801.fepC.post.tele.dk@post12.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:19:29 +0200 Message-ID: <3815B6EF.731269BD@post12.tele.dk> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:13:04 +0200 From: leif drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [da] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: V&A supportasse Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: leif drews Dear Kat (June Russel) I have been to the museum several times, but when i have my partner with me, i must se in a rush, because he dont find it as interresting as i do, besides when you only have 5 days in London, there are other things that you have to se. One thing i have always wondered. Why dont the museum hire some people who can draft the costumes to pattern. I am sure that there would be a big sale on those items, it could pay itself and more i think. Why dont they do this? They could sell it from the museum shop. This supportasse has a "thing" in the neck where it is fastened to the back of the dress, and it has a special cut that i cant find out to make (grrrrrrrrr.) It is odd that Janet Arnold didnt make a draft of this when it is so rare. Bjarne in a cold, dark and rainy Copenhagen. -- Leif Drews boulevard 5, 3 th 1635 København V Bjarne Drews boulevard 5,3.th 1635 København V tlf. 35 37 13 70 Homepage: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~DeeDee_Revia/1index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:15:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09474 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21354; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24077 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:29:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24064; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910261429.IAA24064@net.indra.com> From: griffinhold@usa.net To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Italian gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: griffinhold@usa.net Hello- OK all, I need help! I have a deadline of two weeks to create an Italian gown nice enough to wear with 'real' royalty. I need something simple enough that I don’t have to fuss excessively with patterning. I was thinking about the dress in the portrait of Caterina Sforza painted by Lorenzo di Credi (1459-1587) which is in the Pinacoteca in Forli. However, alternate ideas are cheerfully accepted as I’d originally been thinking about the St. Ursula gown from the Carpaccio cycle. My copy of the Sforza painting is in a book titled The Renaissance Woman by Hannelore Sachs. The bodice is cut wide and laced and there is what appears to be a placket behind the dress front so you’re still not seeing anything except the very top of the chemise. The sleeves are a variant of tie-on. The problem is the skirt. My repro is in B&W and I can’t tell what the skirt would have been. It doesn’t look like it was cartridge pleated and I don’t know what would be an acceptable method of attaching the skirt. Box pleating? Any help would be greatly appreciated before I start seriously tearing my hair out. Lyn Gillespie ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 10:02:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09510 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28431; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06328 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f321.hotmail.com [207.82.250.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06309 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29602 invoked by uid 0); 26 Oct 1999 15:16:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19991026151628.29601.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.33.186.247 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:16:28 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.33.186.247] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Italian gown Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:16:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >From: griffinhold@usa.net >OK all, I need help! I have a deadline of two weeks to create an >Italian >gown nice enough to wear with 'real' royalty. I need >something simple >enough that I don’t have to fuss excessively with >patterning. I was >thinking about the dress in the portrait of >Caterina Sforza painted by >Lorenzo di Credi (1459-1587) which is in >the Pinacoteca in Forli. >However, alternate ideas are cheerfully >accepted as I’d originally been >thinking about the St. Ursula gown >from the Carpaccio cycle. I think the easiest design is a heavily lined bodice with perhaps some light boning. Or you can skip the boning if the bodice is short (ending just beneath the bustline). >My copy of the Sforza painting is in a book titled The Renaissance >Woman >by Hannelore Sachs. The bodice is cut wide and laced and >there is what >appears to be a placket behind the dress front so >you’re still not seeing >anything except the very top of the >chemise. The sleeves are a variant of >tie-on. The problem is the >skirt. My repro is in B&W and I can’t tell >what the skirt would >have been. It doesn’t look like it was cartridge >pleated and I don’t >know what would be an acceptable method of attaching the skirt. Box > >pleating? Box pleats are fine. I tend to make early Ren, Milanese gowns and they were still not very "full", box pleats or simple gathers would work for a gown like that. However, if there is some suggestion that the skirt "stands away" from the legs, I would use cartridge or the like. >Any help would be greatly appreciated before I start seriously >tearing my >hair out. I hope this helps. Unfortunately I could not find the images you mentioned. But just as a reminder, religious figures aren't always a good source for authentic clothing. But if there are similar examples on the patrons or servants in the picture, I think it would be a better example of accuracy. Just my $.02, Allessandre > >Lyn Gillespie > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 10:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09514 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:03:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28437; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06140 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:16:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06127 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:16:36 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EPU7RL2N; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:14:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:10:36 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? Message-ID: <19991026.101520.-267589.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Well, I actually wasn't watching (I'm not a Jane Austen fan, guess that makes me a heretic) until there wasn't anything else decent on last night. I caught the last hour of the show (what was with that bizarro shower/spa scene?!). I must say that I was more impressed with the costuming than I expected to be. In particular I liked the men's costuming, I found it very attractive even tho I never thought of the 1820's as being a particularly 'manly' period of costume. Was this an accurate representation of men's clothing of the era, or did the designer select the ones which would read best to a late 20th century audience? Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 11:06:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09654 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12860; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24056 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:19:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24044 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:19:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6QFGa23737 (3861) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.761a3667.25472e82@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:19:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/1999 11:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: << I never thought of the 1820's as being a particularly 'manly' period of costume. >> Really? As compared to.... what?....petticoat breeches? The late 18th & early 19th centuries are fantastic for men. All that equestrian influence and the tailored look still with some flare before it later all becomes dark colors with no trim. It's the best! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 11:48:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09812 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22585; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06443 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06420 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12027 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp202-179.worldonline.nl [195.241.202.179]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25591 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000b01bf1fd3$dfd06400$b3caf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: needlework cushion Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:01:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1FE4.7E633A60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1FE4.7E633A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tscapreelHenk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht - Netherland Hi, I put down here a question from a friend. Some of you may know the = beautiful fresco's of Ambrogio Lorenzetti in the Palazzo Publico of = Siena called: Good and Bad Government and their Effects in Town and = Countryside, ca 1338-39. In this ensemble their is a picture of Peace = (Pax) as a woman dressed in a voluminous chemise resting on the armour = of knights. She's reclining on a large cushion of white cloth with red = decoration. My friend thinks these decorations are a kind of = openwork-embroidery (making holes and pulling them together to form = patterns) and that the cushion has a red lining. Is he right? An = enlarged photocopy of a picture from a book called 'Five centuries of = Sienese Painting', Thames & Hudson, 1998, shows this quite clearly. Has = anybody on this list anything to say about this?=20 Thanks, Henk ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1FE4.7E633A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tscapreel
Henk & Pauline 't Jong
tScapreel
Medieval=20 Advisors
Dordrecht - Netherland
 
Hi,
 
I put down here a question from a friend. Some = of you may=20 know the beautiful fresco's of Ambrogio Lorenzetti in the Palazzo = Publico of=20 Siena called: Good and Bad Government and their Effects in Town and = Countryside,=20 ca 1338-39. In this ensemble their is a picture of Peace (Pax) as a = woman=20 dressed in a voluminous chemise resting on the armour of knights. She's=20 reclining on a large cushion of white cloth with red decoration. My = friend=20 thinks these decorations are a kind of openwork-embroidery (making holes = and=20 pulling them together to form patterns) and that the cushion has a red = lining.=20 Is he right? An enlarged photocopy of a picture from a book called 'Five = centuries of Sienese Painting', Thames & Hudson, 1998, shows this = quite=20 clearly. Has anybody on this list anything to say about this? =
 
Thanks,
 
Henk

 

 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1FE4.7E633A60-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 11:49:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09816 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22676; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06444 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06422 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12352 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp202-179.worldonline.nl [195.241.202.179]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25574 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000a01bf1fd3$df31b300$b3caf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. masques Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:28:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Claire wrote: > > 1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? > > She says that masques because popular in England during Henry VIII's > > reign--I think around 1520) > I recall reading that at one time a ball or feast would be 'interrupted' > by mysterious strangers wearing masks or sometimes dressed as wild men > or the like. However I can't remember when this was popular though > my brain does associate it with Henry VIII > The revellers would recite verses in honour of guests or otherwise > entertain them. This was already fashionable in the 14th c. There was a famous ball given january 28, 1393 by the French queen Isabeau of Bavaria in which her husband, the slightly mad Charles VI, and 5 others surprised the guests and dressed themselves in 'wild men' costumes made of linen and sewn on their bodies, which were soaked in resinous wax and pitch to let frazzled hemp cling to the costume to form a ragged pelt. Unfortunately, although open fire had been forbidden in the hall, a brother and a cousin of the king entered with torches and a spark set the dancers alight. The queen, who knew her husband was among them, fainted, but the duchesse de Berry covered the king, whom she had recognised, with her skirts. One other flung himself into a large winecooler and escaped a painfull death. Tho other four were burned to death. The king only got madder after that. This was by no means the earliest masked ball, it was one of the most notorious, though.... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 11:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09835 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:51:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22682; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06417 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06400 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11993 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp202-179.worldonline.nl [195.241.202.179]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25569 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:09 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000901bf1fd3$de2cc620$b3caf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <0.a3a40146.253e99de@aol.com><006a01bf1e46$f37c0b00$3bd3f1c3@henk> Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:16:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Don't start me again on Bravehaert. Somebody mentioned that the torturescene (I suppose that's when Wallace got his rewards for 'lese-majeste' in 1305) was so useful to watch for modern viewers. Well, there was nothing to watch except the faces of the crowd who seemed to enjoy themselves. In fact it was one of the scenes I LOL: Mel looking out into the audience while his entrails were dragged out of him with a look as if he thought:"Hello, what are they doing now? I don't think I'm going to like this... No, I'm definetely not going to like this, but they still go on... Drat, I wonder if I should say something about this. This is kind of getting unbearable, but I suppose they would not listen. They never do, not even if you ask them politely... Oh, well, it's got to end sometime. etc . etc." My wife did not know what to make of my roaring, as she thought it a pity he suffered so. Very understated acting that was, Mel, worth the Oscar! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:09:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16134 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26326; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11674 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:22:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11655 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:22:02 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6KCWa01795 (3951) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.bf45667d.25473d17@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:21:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Henk's Braveheart/OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/1999 10:05:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, scapreel@tip.nl writes: << Well, there was nothing to watch except the faces of the crowd who seemed to enjoy themselves. In fact it was one of the scenes I LOL: Mel looking out into the audience while his entrails were dragged out of him with a look as if he thought:"Hello, what are they doing now? I don't think I'm going to like this... No, I'm definetely not going to like this, but they still go on... Drat, I wonder if I should say something about this. This is kind of getting unbearable, but I suppose they would not listen. They never do, not even if you ask them politely... Oh, well, it's got to end sometime. etc . etc." >> I can't stop laughing! I did not have the same reaction upon watching, but can certainly recognize some good humor with a little reflection! Oh my! ROTFL angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both wind and tide." King Henry VI, Part III, IV, iii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20507 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27565; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13685 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:29:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13676 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:29:10 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EPVFARFY; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:26:29 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? Message-ID: <19991026.122636.-366793.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-35 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Okay, I'll admit that my sense of what makes an outfit 'manly' is probably hopelessly skewed from decades of doing historical costuming. No, petticoat breeches don't make my 'manly' costume list, but cavalier does, as does mid/late 15th century pourpoints (what can I say, I love the look of a man's legs in tights!). As my teen-age years were spent doing American RevWar re-enactment, my idea of manly attraction is heavily influenced by both the extreme primitive end of leggins and breechclout, and the tight knee-breeches and full white linen shirt of the more conventional 18th century mode. In a 20th century mode, I like the post-WWII broad shoulder/nipped waist look. Not quite as extreme as a zoot suit, but showing the influence. Perhaps I will pay more attention to the post-Napoleonic if "Vanity Fair" was a decent representation..... Karen (and let's not forget the attraction of a man in a kilt!) On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:19:14 EDT AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 11:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > << I never thought of the > 1820's as being a particularly 'manly' period of costume. >> > > Really? As compared to.... what?....petticoat breeches? The late > 18th & early > 19th centuries are fantastic for men. All that equestrian influence > and the > tailored look still with some flare before it later all becomes dark > colors > with no trim. It's the best! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:19:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24338 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:19:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28304; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:33:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14880 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:33:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14859 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27440 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:33:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp230-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.230.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA04060 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:33:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006e01bf1fd8$26941860$b3caf1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <1F176F2C2977D311B3300090270E63781EA7DB@scl-exch.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: putting powder in pourpoints Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:21:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Cynthia asked: > Vermeil: what could "mingled" possibly mean in this context? A variety of > colors? a 2-toned damask? > Yes, a warp of one colour and a weft of a different colour. > Did you have a guess on "c'est assavoir"; > "it's to know that..."? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:38:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05698 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:38:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00974; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19922 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:52:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19909 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.15] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11gAlo-0007ks-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:52:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991025222433.00c23210@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991025222433.00c23210@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:26:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Indian pashmani shawls In-Reply-To: <38152BB5.59504149@worldnet.att.net> References: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> <3814FFEA.DE1F3125@rica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> Lots of fun things to drool over in this production. Sure wish I could >> find some of those gorgeous Indian shawls. Yummy. > >Funny you should mention that - I was reading in the LA Times last week >about indian pashmanis shawls which are the *hot* fashion item this >season. Not entirely period looking from the sound of it, but they >mentioned that many of the upper end shawls had nice metallic >embroideries on them. I'm looking forward to these hitting the second >hand market in a few years (btw, they pointed out that the word >"pashmani" means a combination of silk and cashmere fibers - that's >all). Well, start watching the saree stores. They ought to have them cheaper than anyone else. More to the point, they ought to actually have them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:45:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06298 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02092; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:59:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21677 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:59:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21666 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.60.116]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991026175837.GGTY16270.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:58:37 +0100 Message-ID: <38164FE6.7EFE@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:05:42 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? References: <0.761a3667.25472e82@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 11:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > << I never thought of the > 1820's as being a particularly 'manly' period of costume. >> > > Really? As compared to.... what?....petticoat breeches? The late 18th & early > 19th centuries are fantastic for men. All that equestrian influence and the > tailored look still with some flare before it later all becomes dark colors > with no trim. It's the best! That's why I do Georgian re-enactment such a pleasure to attend the events!!! Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:05:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06316 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04546; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:17:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25807 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Tue Oct 26 11:17:06 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:17:06 -0800 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.115 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" I've been taping it both nights. sorry it took so long to reply I haven't been able to get into my email the past few days. I love the light green/sea foam and goldish dress Becky wears a couple of times. and of course they are all so pretty, accurate or not. and then there's Colonel crawly, he's a cutie!, looks a lot like Ciaran Hinds, I think he's the same man that played Edward Rochester in Wide Sargasso Sea. Anyway, lots to drool over all the way around. :) --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:38:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06428 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:38:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10626; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04791 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:52:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04776 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA06794.; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:29 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: "Vanity Fair" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA04787 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I'm wondering if the "Vanity Fair" you people across the pond are discussing is the BBC production of a year or two ago (Miriam Margolyes played Miss Crawley and Nathaniel Parker, Rawdon)? NB to Karen - the novel is by Thackeray, not Jane Austen (much more cynical!) and the story runs from about 1812-1830. Although I re-enact English Civil War, I adore the fashions of the Napoleonic era and second AlbertCat's opinion of the men's clothes of the time Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:47:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06708 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:47:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21749; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21803 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:01:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21793 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11gCmB-000I90-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:01:00 +0000 Message-ID: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:59:14 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets In-Reply-To: <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com>, Marionetta@aol.com writes >Hi all, > >Just got back from seeing the Brassai exhibit at the National Gallery. He >photographed Paris in the late 20s early 30s, with a lot of photos of >''underground" Paris and portraits of the famous artists of the day. Anyway, >I noticed that several of the women in the pictures (one in an opium den and >other in a brothel I think...) were wearing fishnet stockings and it got me >wondering how long fishnets have been around. Also, in these particular >pictures they seemed to be worn by women of "questionable morals." Has there >long been an association with fishnets and risque women? My books were >silent on the subject, anyone know? > >Cheers, > >Loren Dearborn >marionetta@aol.com I'm not sure, but it sounds to me as if you yourself wouldn't normally associate fishnets with "risque" women? I do, automatically. As soon as I'm cast as a "dancer who might offer a bit more than just dancing" (it happens a lot), out they come! I very occasionally come across someone wearing them in real life, and I would look at them very askance. I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? I wonder if they were thought naughty because you could see real bare flesh through the holes? Were they ever (or are they still, in some places) worn just as everyday hosiery? -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:55:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06717 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:55:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23249; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24065 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:09:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24048 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camelot (ip121.houston13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.213.121]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23331 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00fb01bf1fed$e7ef67c0$4ad51b26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:08:42 -0500 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" We wore them in the late 1960's to school ! It was definitely a fashion statement and EVERYBODY wore them. Guinevere ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Waddie To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > In message <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com>, Marionetta@aol.com writes > >Hi all, > > > >Just got back from seeing the Brassai exhibit at the National Gallery. He > >photographed Paris in the late 20s early 30s, with a lot of photos of > >''underground" Paris and portraits of the famous artists of the day. Anyway, > >I noticed that several of the women in the pictures (one in an opium den and > >other in a brothel I think...) were wearing fishnet stockings and it got me > >wondering how long fishnets have been around. Also, in these particular > >pictures they seemed to be worn by women of "questionable morals." Has there > >long been an association with fishnets and risque women? My books were > >silent on the subject, anyone know? > > > >Cheers, > > > >Loren Dearborn > >marionetta@aol.com > > I'm not sure, but it sounds to me as if you yourself wouldn't normally > associate fishnets with "risque" women? I do, automatically. As soon > as I'm cast as a "dancer who might offer a bit more than just dancing" > (it happens a lot), out they come! I very occasionally come across > someone wearing them in real life, and I would look at them very > askance. > > I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? I wonder if they were > thought naughty because you could see real bare flesh through the holes? > Were they ever (or are they still, in some places) worn just as everyday > hosiery? > -- > Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 15:05:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06757 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:05:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25348; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26918 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:20:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA26912 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:20:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:20:48 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >In message <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com>, Marionetta@aol.com writes >>Hi all, >> >>Just got back from seeing the Brassai exhibit at the National Gallery. He >>photographed Paris in the late 20s early 30s, with a lot of photos of >>''underground" Paris and portraits of the famous artists of the day. >>Anyway, >>I noticed that several of the women in the pictures (one in an opium den and >>other in a brothel I think...) were wearing fishnet stockings and it got me >>wondering how long fishnets have been around. Also, in these particular >>pictures they seemed to be worn by women of "questionable morals." Has >>there >>long been an association with fishnets and risque women? My books were >>silent on the subject, anyone know? >> >>Cheers, >> >>Loren Dearborn >>marionetta@aol.com > >I'm not sure, but it sounds to me as if you yourself wouldn't normally >associate fishnets with "risque" women? I do, automatically. As soon >as I'm cast as a "dancer who might offer a bit more than just dancing" >(it happens a lot), out they come! I very occasionally come across >someone wearing them in real life, and I would look at them very >askance. > >I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? I wonder if they were >thought naughty because you could see real bare flesh through the holes? >Were they ever (or are they still, in some places) worn just as everyday >hosiery? >-- >Jean Waddie Around 1960-62 (?), in San Francisco, they were acceptable wear with Correge boots. I had a pair of white ones and even my mother thought they were acceptable. As a matter of fact, she bought them for me; I had never even heard of them before. I remember wearing them to church on several occassions - and we went to a very traditional church. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06927 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05591; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:23:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12902 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:21:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12893 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.54] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA2A1F0018E; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:16:26 -0400 Message-ID: <002201bf1ff8$3485d600$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:22:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Waddie Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:59 PM > I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? Oh goodness! Hmm, Drat these fatigue-induced brain lapses! I can remember just recently running across fishnets offered in one of my Victorianish vintage & reproduction suppliers, and thinking it odd as I'd never seen that particular type of hose with any fashions of the era, but I can't for the life of me remember (or find) the source! I *do* recall that as mentioned they seemed intentioned for everyday wear into society, no "naughty" association at all. I'll keep leafing through my catalogues and browsing my favourite websites--if I find the darn things again I'll post. =) Sleepily, Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06928 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05588; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12921 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:21:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12915 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:14:13 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB4F1@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: fishnets Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:14:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA We all wore them till we got tired of squirming around in those hard desk seats all day. Those things are a pain to sit down in/on 50 minutes at a time. Especially in a miniskirt. I know someone told me once that the idea is to make your legs look naked without the tedious jiggling that naked legs are subject to. That could have just been one dancer's opinion, of course. Hi gang. I'm back! Cheers! MaggiRos A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Diane M. Mathews [SMTP:camelothorse@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:09 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets > > > -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" > > We wore them in the late 1960's to school ! It was definitely a fashion > statement and EVERYBODY wore them. > > Guinevere > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jean Waddie > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets > > > > > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > > > In message <0.5946cddc.2540b770@aol.com>, Marionetta@aol.com writes > > >Hi all, > > > > > >Just got back from seeing the Brassai exhibit at the National Gallery. > He > > >photographed Paris in the late 20s early 30s, with a lot of photos of > > >''underground" Paris and portraits of the famous artists of the day. > Anyway, > > >I noticed that several of the women in the pictures (one in an opium > den > and > > >other in a brothel I think...) were wearing fishnet stockings and it > got > me > > >wondering how long fishnets have been around. Also, in these > particular > > >pictures they seemed to be worn by women of "questionable morals." Has > there > > >long been an association with fishnets and risque women? My books were > > >silent on the subject, anyone know? > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Loren Dearborn > > >marionetta@aol.com > > > > I'm not sure, but it sounds to me as if you yourself wouldn't normally > > associate fishnets with "risque" women? I do, automatically. As soon > > as I'm cast as a "dancer who might offer a bit more than just dancing" > > (it happens a lot), out they come! I very occasionally come across > > someone wearing them in real life, and I would look at them very > > askance. > > > > I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? I wonder if they were > > thought naughty because you could see real bare flesh through the holes? > > Were they ever (or are they still, in some places) worn just as everyday > > hosiery? > > -- > > Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:22:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06982 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07906; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17293 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:36:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (IDENT:PSv8azxzCY8Pg+DYF9nBWAnnAcGRZzaM@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17277 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m11gEGx-000deXC; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max6-41.worldaccessnet.com(206.190.132.189), claiming to be "sidne" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa001Wu; Tue Oct 26 14:36:44 1999 Message-ID: <009b01bf1ff9$f9e1b620$bd84bece@sidne> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: References: <2CE99B08DC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:33:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" Copies? Scans? Sidne Kneeland (Psychotherapy is expensive, bubble wrap is cheap. You choose) Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 7:17 AM Subject: H-COST: Treasure Trove!! > > -Poster: teddy1 > > Oooh! > > One of our Subject Librarians has just weeded her book stock and > passed some stuff my way. > > I've just been given a stack of back issues of "Costume: The journal > of the Costume Society"... Issues No 3 to No 27... a quick glance > through has shown up several articles by Janet Arnold. > > Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? > > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:37:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07000 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:37:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10142; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:52:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20859 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:51:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20841 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03706 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3816230A.6609E305@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:54:18 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets References: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I remember wearing them as gartered stockings in the early sixties (before mini-skirts). No problems with sitting since they didn't go that high, but they hurt your feet if you didn't wear another pair of stockings underneath! Mine were white nylon net and did help warm up our cold legs (no pants allowed at school then). I don't believe pantyhose were available at that time, and tights were only for dancers. How the world has changed. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:58:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07117 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12837; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24914 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:07:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24896 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Tue Oct 26 15:07:03 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:07:03 -0800 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: "Vanity Fair" X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.100 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" that's the one I'm talking about. I assumed everyone else was too. It's on A & E here in the US. and yes now I remember Nathaniel Parker yes...mmm...yes that's his name, *giggle* --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure >I'm wondering if the "Vanity Fair" you people across the pond are discussing is the BBC production of a year or two ago (Miriam Margolyes played Miss Crawley and Nathaniel Parker, Rawdon)? Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:03:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07133 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13827; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27250 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:17:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27191 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.86] (ppp86.creative.net [208.225.99.86]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14536 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3816230A.6609E305@mediaone.net> References: <8bXrpFASggF4IwuF@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <3816230A.6609E305@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:25:48 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: Janice Dallas > >I remember wearing them as gartered stockings in the early sixties >(before mini-skirts). No problems with sitting since they didn't go >that high, but they hurt your feet if you didn't wear another pair of >stockings underneath! Mine were white nylon net and did help warm up >our cold legs (no pants allowed at school then). I don't believe >pantyhose were available at that time, and tights were only for >dancers. How the world has changed. Yeah, my first pair of fish net stockings were sort of olive green. I wore them with a mushroom brown A-line skirt and olive green mary janes of a non-standard shape (odd shaped toe - strap down toward the toe) with a garter belt. This was in junior high in the early 1960's. I still have some of my stockings from the 60's and early 70's - one pair is copper mesh, looks rather like a pot scrubber. I might even still have my white lace garter belt somewhere. When i show this stuff to my daughter she thinks we were nuts. And the stockings don't really go up all that high, but then, our skirts were not very short. Even the first mini-skirts, at least where i grew up, were barely over the kneecap and were considered quite shocking. As mini-skirts got shorter, the stockings (yes, still stockings) got longer. By high school (mid to late 60's) i would wear two different colored stockings together (day glo orange and day glo pink) with dresses i'd buy in the children's department (i could squeeze into a size 12, although it was sometimes a little tight in the "chest") As for pantyhose, no they didn't exist. Tights, however, did exist, but were only worn by little girls (one brand was called "Suzy Longlegs), ice skaters, and dancers. I had a number of them made by Capezio, but they came in really limited colors: black, navy, white, red, pink. Eventually there was purple. They were all fairly heavy weight. Finally, and it didn't take too long, a thinner weight of tights replaced stockings for those of us in mini-skirts - If you see the movie "Blow Up", you'll notice (A) Vanessa Redgrave's mini-skirt is quite long, and (B) most of the groupies are wearing colored tights. Lilinah who gets nostalgic when she sees the costumes in the Austin Power's movies _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07168 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19140; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06146 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:53:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bchamber@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06124 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bchamber@localhost) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA14193 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:52:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Chamberlain X-Sender: bchamber@bookworm To: H-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Old jewelry -OT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Chamberlain And my strange question for the day is... I have an old pendant of my grandmother's. It no longer has a chain and nothing I've tried it on looks right to me. Any suggestions of where I could find examples of antique jewelry? I think the pendant is from the 20's or 30's but I'm not really sure so any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:39:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07172 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19281; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06499 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:54:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06492 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:54:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6MMNa02562 (4190) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.a3d4a984.25478b02@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:53:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/1999 1:31:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: << No, petticoat breeches don't make my 'manly' costume list, >> I was being a smart ass.....as usual. It is interesting that any period can produce butch as well as fop. Some more readily than others. There IS a way to be butch in petticoat breeches & a full bottomed wig.....somehow. Just as there are Elizabethan [a period definitely butch] fops. So to with the manly & proper Edwardian man. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:44:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07178 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20352; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07667 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:59:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07650 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:59:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JHT0WsXEM (4414) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.8b9f6abe.25478c28@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:58:48 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: braveheart To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I am interested to hear so many people's opinions of "Braveheart," because it was such a popular film. Here is my experience with it: My husband and I saw it in the theater and really liked it. In fact, we raved about it. Then we checked out the real history (we have a strange habit of doing that . . .) and found, as usual with a historical film, that it was much more interesting. The prince, though gay, was actually an accomplished tournament fighter who was quite admired, though everyone hated him because he played favorites. William Wallace introduced a lot of interesting group fighting techniques and strategies. The princess was only 11 years old at the time. Of course, there was never any "prima nocte" anywhere. Etc., etc., etc. And even at the film, I thought the first hour was boring (I, however, don't mind looking at lots of shots of Mel Gibson!). Anyway, despite thinking the real thing would have made a better story, we still liked the movie -- or so we thought. Then I bought the video for my husband as a gift (he requested it) and I couldn't even make it through the video. It was AWFUL! And the SCRIPT! William Wallace's speeches before battles wouldn't inspire a high school football team! Anyway, there were some parts I liked (the fact that the characters spoke numerous languages, for instance, which is rarely addressed in medieval films; and the whole idea that being married might be important to anyone is sadly left out of most movies) but on the whole we both agree that it stunk. We had the same experience with "Batman," which we thought was great the first time. Then we went to see it again for $1 and sat through it in complete silence. I realized that it made no sense at all and was one of the worst films I'd ever seen. We walked out of the theater in silence. Finally, in the car, I said that I was a little disappointed in it the second time. My husband said he'd hated it! We both wanted to leave all the way through, but stayed because we thought the other liked the movie! And they've made how many other Batman movies since then?? Surely the quality hasn't gotten any better. Oh well. Strange things happen in Hollywood. Gail PS: "Batman" reminded me of "The Shadow," which is entertaining and far superior to "Batman." Anyway, the costumes are FANTASTIC. Margo Lane's white bias cut evening gown is spectacular, and the Khan wears a wonderful huge robe of some kind that seems to be alive in one scene. . . _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:49:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07183 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21185; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08949 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:04:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08885 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-36.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.142]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28706 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3815FCF0.E19160ED@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:11:44 +0000 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices References: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> <3.0.5.32.19991022193605.00793c30@antir.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby What I've usually seen with this type of bodice is 3 pieces in the front and 2 in the back. The side pieces go from the side to 1/3 of the chest, the middle pieces from mid breast to mid breast. ( Sorry for the graphic pic but it's the best explanation I have) This allows you to make adjustments without darts. Check the visual hist of coustume series and Milla Davenport for period pics. !9th cent redrawings are often not shaped right and are romanticised. Hope this helps Raella Kris wrote: > -Poster: Kris > > >-Poster: Diana H > >I have to ask firstly if you are trying to make your dress a > >historically researched work or if you just want the look that you see > >in this picture. If the former is the case, then I recommend that you > >don't use this picture. It not a good resource because it is an Italian > >artists version of a German gown that has been re-drawn. The partlet > > Yeah.. I know it's not a good example :] I have all sorts of photocopies > here at home, but with no scanner, I can't get them up onto my site.. I've > found another that's *slightly* better. > http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE34AX.HTML > > You see how the bust is being supported somewhat in a Victorian shape? (I > know that could be part of the re-drawing of the figures in the book :] But > I've seen it in a couple of library books too..) *that's* what I want. The > sleeves are the way I've got mine done, and I'd REALLY appreciate it if > someone could point me towards the original for this drawing. PLEASE! :] > > I'm finding that I have a major problem getting the curve of the bust. I'm > having one heck of a time fitting it. I know what style of bodice I need, > and I've got the sleeves and the shoulder area down pat, but that one, > important spot is driving me nuts! The one I made last weekend ended up > having a somewhat flat front on it, that I had to bone it because it was > wrinkling so badly. And I used canvas and about 5 or 6 pieces of heavy > interfacing basted together. *sigh* It looks good, but it's not what I was > trying to achieve. > > Kris > > ps.. I've seen many portraits of the young women having a sheer shawl > tucked around their neckline into the top of the bodice when the bodice is > very low cut. I think the pictures were italian or dutch, but could that > apply to a young german girl too? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07193 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21555; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09383 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09369 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:58:33 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB4F8@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:58:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I think Sam Neill does pretty well by both in "Restoration". He even manages to look dangerous. It's manner and carriage and the all important attitude that makes the difference. Plus you have to be looking at the man, not just the wrapper. Cheers! Maggie Secara secaram@mainsaver.com A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net Leap, and the net will appear. --Orson Wells > -----Original Message----- > From: AlbertCat@aol.com [SMTP:AlbertCat@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 11:54 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? > > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 1:31:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > << No, petticoat breeches don't make my 'manly' costume list, >> > > I was being a smart ass.....as usual. > It is interesting that any period can produce butch as well as fop. Some > more > readily than others. There IS a way to be butch in petticoat breeches & a > full bottomed wig..... > [...] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:51:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07197 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21572; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09381 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09365 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-36.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.142]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28815 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3815FD5A.C8787210@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:13:30 +0000 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Deeply Cut Sleeves (Pourpoints & Houppelands) References: <199910230258.UAA21570@net.indra.com> <38113347.92913CBC@utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby If the citations wander back, let me know. : ) Raella Marc Carlson wrote: > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > > > > This is cool! I've only seen this sleeve and shoulder construction > > with men's 14th cent. > > That's what I thought as well, although I have now seen a few > paintings (the citations for which have wandered off this evening) > with this sort of cut on woman's gowns. The range of arm movement, > though is really interesting. > > Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:55:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07201 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22181; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10318 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10301 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:09:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:10:45 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Old jewelry -OT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Chamberlain > >And my strange question for the day is... > I have an old pendant of my grandmother's. It no longer has a chain and >nothing I've tried it on looks right to me. Any suggestions of where I >could find examples of antique jewelry? I think the pendant is from the >20's or 30's but I'm not really sure so any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks in advance >Beth > But Beth, it's NOT OT; it's accessorizing! My sister collects antique jewelry and she has a sizable library of books to help her figure out what she's got, so there's books out there specific to jewelry. Many large libraries should have books in either the jewelry section or the antique section. There are many at bookstores to look at also - Barnes and Noble had several books on antique jewelry the last time I looked - I was looking for one my sister didn't have. Good luck. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07231 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23086; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11640 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:15:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f270.hotmail.com [209.185.130.186]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11619 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2168 invoked by uid 0); 26 Oct 1999 23:14:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19991026231438.2167.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:14:38 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.58] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:14:38 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Actually, at one time McCall's had a very nice version of a "prairie" wrapper, that is close to an original I photographed and examined belonging to a lady in North Carolina, circa mid-1870s, and also is frequently seen in photographs c. 1870 - 1890. I don't think it is still available though.. I have it, it is McCall's 7198. You might be able to find it through some of the companies that hold archival patterns. It was from the MartiMitchell collection and featured a separate apron and had options for shoulder ruffles... by and large, the present offerings are pretty farby, IMHO. Better to try Past Patterns #711, 1860s (late 60s) Homestead Dress, or #803, 1850s Pioneer Dress. For a nice (and cheap) overview of Pioneer wrappers, check out Calico Chronicle, by Betty Mills, avail. from Texas Tech. press, at Amazon DryGoods. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris >From: "Megan McHugh" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:26:40 -0400 > > >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >A new question for all of you: is there a pattern from the big three >(simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, etc.) for a praire dress that has any >basis in reality? For example, Simplicity 8755 has little sleeve ruffles >and a hat that I can't figure out. I know McCalls has two patterns, don't >have the numbers handy, one of which looks to be like a standard Renn Faire >chemise with a belt. Which would be the closest to what was? Or are all >of >these merely TV versions of a child's dress? (Bear with me, this is not my >area of study at all). Any pointers? Thank you. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07240 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:01:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23189; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11864 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:15:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (mail.pcs.k12.mi.us [204.39.58.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11850 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pcs.k12.mi.us (pm452-36.dialip.mich.net [198.110.20.142]) by scnc.pcs.k12.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29370 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3815FFAD.7C8A4CE1@pcs.k12.mi.us> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:23:27 +0000 From: Jean Zerby X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) References: <000201bf1ce0$873c6f00$ae0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Zerby In case you're interested there's a book , A pictorial History of Turkish Dance that has a lot of cool pictures and dance info. Raella "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > In response to an earlier comment about a middle eastern > dancer "earning her dowry coins" by dancing in the street, > I'm curious where this idea came from and what culture. In > the Turkish Ethnographic Museum in Bursa, there is a series > of bridal garments depicted for the eighteenth century, each > one of which involves a good deal of coinage. These are the > wedding costumes of virgins who remained all of their lives > in seclusion. Painters visiting Turkey were only able to > paint the rare female dancer, as no other women (the vast > majority, rich or poor) were shielded from males eyes. > (Hence so few depictions of women among hundreds of images > of men.) If any of the brides had danced in the street, it > would have disqualified them for marriage. The coins have a > symbolism that extends beyond the dancer. The h-cost writer > makes a great story, but is there any shred of historic > authencenticity to it? It is not a subject I know much > about, admittedly. > > Hope H. Dunlap > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07306 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29919; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19981 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:57:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19972 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.176] (sdts11-176.znet.net [207.167.66.176]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id QAA21165 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:57:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3815FCF0.E19160ED@pcs.k12.mi.us> References: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> <3.0.5.32.19991022193605.00793c30@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:28:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Jean Zerby > >What I've usually seen with this type of bodice is 3 pieces in the front and 2 >in the back. The side pieces go from the side to 1/3 of the chest, the middle >pieces from mid breast to mid breast. ( Sorry for the graphic pic but it's the >best explanation I have) I've never seen an early 16th c German gown cut like this. Can you provide some specific sources? >Check the visual hist of coustume series and Milla Davenport for period pics. I can't recall seeing German gowns in them. Do you describe some specifics? >> ps.. I've seen many portraits of the young women having a sheer shawl >> tucked around their neckline into the top of the bodice when the bodice is >> very low cut. I think the pictures were italian or dutch, but could that >> apply to a young german girl too? Yes. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:45:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07318 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00570; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20487 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:00:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20476 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:00:25 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EPV5QUWU; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:58:40 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:58:28 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? Message-ID: <19991026.185837.-433945.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-18,20,26-27,29-35 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:53:54 EDT AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 1:31:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > << No, petticoat breeches don't make my 'manly' costume list, >> > > I was being a smart ass.....as usual. And it's just one of the things we love you for. ;-) > It is interesting that any period can produce butch as well as fop. > Some more > readily than others. There IS a way to be butch in petticoat > breeches & a > full bottomed wig.....somehow. Just as there are Elizabethan [a > period definitely butch] fops. So to with the manly & proper Edwardian man. The clothing may make the man on occasion, but the man always makes the clothing. There are some guys who just look fab in whatever they wear, and there are other guys who need all the help they can get. And yes, Elizabethan is a wonderfully attractive style. It's just that I talk about that era so ofter, I thought I'd expound on some other eras for a change. And Austen....Thackery.....Regency novels, who can keep them all straight......lots of manners, not much sex. 8-) Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:57:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07343 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01775; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22440 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:11:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22432 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.102]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08312 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199910270010.RAA08312@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:26 PM 10/25/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >A new question for all of you: is there a pattern from the big three >(simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, etc.) for a praire dress that has any >basis in reality? For example, Simplicity 8755 has little sleeve ruffles >and a hat that I can't figure out. the Simplicity pattern is really quite good for the 1880's, including the sleeve ruffles. I made it (after altering it up to a size 26) with the following changes: I ditched the zipper up the back and put buttons and holes in front, on the yoke. I left the front seam open to waist level, and wore it with a waist tied apron that holds it closed. I also lengthened the dress to 2" off the ground. This style is really a wrapper, which in period would probably have had a fitted inner bodice. I didn't make one, and don't miss it. I almost never use commercial patterns, but this one was almost identical to the style I was planning to draft after much research. It went together in an afternoon, and is so comfortable I'm going to make it up in cotton flannel for home wear this winter. The bonnet is certainly strange though. I don't even care if it's period, I'm just not putting something that ugly on my head. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:58:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07348 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02064; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22794 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:13:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22789 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.102]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08692 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:12:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:12:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199910270012.RAA08692@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: V&A supportasse Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >One thing i have always wondered. Why dont the museum hire some people >who can draft the costumes to pattern. I am sure that there would be a >big sale on those items, it could pay itself and more i think. Why dont >they do this? They could sell it from the museum shop. I can't name any names, but someone is working on this idea right now. (no, not me). Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:08:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07381 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03636; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24524 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:23:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24515 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:23:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:16:10 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB4FD@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'H-Costume'" Subject: H-COST: Ordinary folks--mid-late 17th century Caribbean Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:16:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Hello again. I have done something foolish and wonderful and well, here's what I mean. My first novel is generating some belated interest. I say belated because I "finished" it almost 10 years ago and although it had some nibbles at the time, it never sold. Just recently, I have had an agent express enthusiasm, so of course I've embarked on the adventure of putting some new shine on it, taking some very good suggestions, and extending it by a couple of chapters to tie up loose ends I was too exausted to see at the time. My costume problem is, it takes place in the 1670s. That's a hundred years or more after any of the clothes I know well. Now I have found some wonderful online sources for fashion plates and paintings of the nobility, but most of my characters don't spend much time in fancy clothes--except for the party in chapter 2 and the wedding at the very very end. The action takes place entirely in and around Port Royal, Jamaica. Most of the characters are English. It's the mid-1670s. And while clothes don't take up all that much space in a novel, no matter how well researched, I'd like to make sure I'm not ripping the wrong sort of bodices (joke! joke! No bodice ripping, I swear! :) Can someone point me in the right direction for ordinary people's clothes? I don't want to get the catalog of my costume errors a week after (crossing my fingers) publication Help! MaggiRos ~All my men wear a sword or they wear nothing at all! A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07399 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:26:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05893; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27235 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:41:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27228 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.102]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12246 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:40:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:40:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199910270040.RAA12246@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I was wondering when and why fishnets came about? I wonder if they were >thought naughty because you could see real bare flesh through the holes? >Were they ever (or are they still, in some places) worn just as everyday >hosiery? Yes. the year I was 12, which would have been 1969, white fishnet stockings were de riguer for girls my age, and older teens, to wear to school. this was in a very small town in Northern California, where styles tended to be 3-5 years behind the times, so they may have bee popular around 66 or so in more sophisticated areas. I remember them particularly because it was my first experience with wearing garter stockings, and I found them horribly uncomfortable. Between the fishnets cutting into my toes and sitting on the garters, it was torture. It may explain why we were so happy shortly afterwards, when pantyhose (which I detest now) came in. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:30:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07406 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06346; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27956 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:46:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27947 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23354 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 00:46:06 -0000 Received: from 148.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO ?207.183.240.148?) (207.183.240.148) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 00:46:06 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:46:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >I have seen one or two pictures showing people in masque clothing, >Elizabeth I included. But I was wondering if someone could give me >just some general pointers about pre-1600 masques. > >1. Were masques popular *before* 1500, say 1350? > >2. Were masks worn Note-the difference between the "masque" and "mask" masks go back through ancient times. The masque is a participatory play. These developed during the renaissance and became extremely popular during the Jacobean time-Ben Johnson was well known for his masques. > >3. Would all clothing norms have flown out the window so to speak? >For instance if the masque took place in Elizabeth's court would women >have chosen not to wear their corsets if the outfit was say, Greek in >the year 300c.e. ? > Inigo Jones designed special costumes and sets for the masques that went with the story. Many of these were very fantastical and some quite risque. Some of the classical examples I've seen seem a bit Minoan, with small bodice and their breasts exposed. It didn't look greek at all, of course it doesn't look renaissance either. >4. What types of themes might have been popular? Masques were plays, and many were based on classical myths (part of that Greek revival thing) Good masque sources- look up books on Ben Johnson and Inigo Jones. They were eknown for thier excellent work in the masques for the Jacobean court. Masked balls, were all the guests were masks (like Halloween) is completely different and significantly later in period. I did some research on masques a while ago, and my husband studies music history. He could forward you names for referencing masque composers if necessary. Hope that helps. Karolee J. Smiley _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:48:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07424 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08595; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00652 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00645 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:03:39 -0600 (MDT) From: ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk Received: from hrofi.demon.co.uk ([158.152.7.203]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11gHV1-000FNT-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:03:35 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ordinary folks--mid-late 17th century Caribbean Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:02:48 GMT Message-ID: <38174e17.7894623@post.demon.co.uk> References: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB4FD@HP-LH3> In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB4FD@HP-LH3> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id TAA00648 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk Try http://www.kipar.org and go to the galleties - there are contemporary costumes by decade from 1660-1700 there Ben On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:16:09 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > >Hello again. > >I have done something foolish and wonderful and well, here's what I mean. >My first novel is generating some belated interest. I say belated because I >"finished" it almost 10 years ago and although it had some nibbles at the >time, it never sold. Just recently, I have had an agent express enthusiasm, >so of course I've embarked on the adventure of putting some new shine on it, >taking some very good suggestions, and extending it by a couple of chapters >to tie up loose ends I was too exausted to see at the time. > >My costume problem is, it takes place in the 1670s. That's a hundred years >or more after any of the clothes I know well. Now I have found some >wonderful online sources for fashion plates and paintings of the nobility, >but most of my characters don't spend much time in fancy clothes--except for >the party in chapter 2 and the wedding at the very very end. The action >takes place entirely in and around Port Royal, Jamaica. Most of the >characters are English. It's the mid-1670s. And while clothes don't take >up all that much space in a novel, no matter how well researched, I'd like >to make sure I'm not ripping the wrong sort of bodices (joke! joke! No >bodice ripping, I swear! :) > >Can someone point me in the right direction for ordinary people's clothes? >I don't want to get the catalog of my costume errors a week after (crossing >my fingers) publication > >Help! > >MaggiRos >~All my men wear a sword or they wear nothing at all! > > >A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) >is at http://ren.dm.net > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 20:28:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07462 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:28:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12676; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07122 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:43:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07108 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 63.26.11.188 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:43:04 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:47:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bf201e$15c1e6c0$bc0b1a3f@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <3815FFAD.7C8A4CE1@pcs.k12.mi.us> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sounds wonderful!! At Topkapi Palace, music was supplied to the Sultans chamber from an adjoining room where an all-female "band" played, the music filtering in through an interior window. The original "stereo" in the corner, it would have supplied nice accompaniment for a dancer. Thanks, Hope > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jean Zerby > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:23 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Ren Faire belly dancers (was Gypsies and dancers) > > > -Poster: Jean Zerby > > In case you're interested there's a book , A pictorial History of > Turkish Dance that has a lot of cool pictures and dance info. > > Raella > > "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: > > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > > In response to an earlier comment about a middle eastern > > dancer "earning her dowry coins" by dancing in the street, > > I'm curious where this idea came from and what culture. In > > the Turkish Ethnographic Museum in Bursa, there is a series > > of bridal garments depicted for the eighteenth century, each > > one of which involves a good deal of coinage. These are the > > wedding costumes of virgins who remained all of their lives > > in seclusion. Painters visiting Turkey were only able to > > paint the rare female dancer, as no other women (the vast > > majority, rich or poor) were shielded from males eyes. > > (Hence so few depictions of women among hundreds of images > > of men.) If any of the brides had danced in the street, it > > would have disqualified them for marriage. The coins have a > > symbolism that extends beyond the dancer. The h-cost writer > > makes a great story, but is there any shred of historic > > authencenticity to it? It is not a subject I know much > > about, admittedly. > > > > Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 20:52:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07476 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14853; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10650 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:06:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10601; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-159-252.s252.tnt7.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.159.252]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id WAA23914; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bf2020$369f11e0$fc9faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" Subject: H-COST: NYU Fashion Conference Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:08:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I was passed this information and thought some of you might be interested. Later... Penny **************************************************************************** Please join us at "The American Century: America's Fashion Ascendancy and Its Roots," a conference to be held from Thursday evening, November 4th through Saturday, November 6th. Offered by NYU's School of Continuing and Professional Studies, the conference will examine the inception, rise, and power of American fashion in the 20th century. The conference considers designers and the fashions they created; institutions and individuals who collect and preserve American fashion; and the many aspects of marketing the American Look. For more information, visit the Web site at http://nyu.preferredmail.com/X?/6914-32772150/fashion To register for the conference using a major credit card, call (212)998-7171 on or before October 28. After that date call (212) 998-7130. Tuition for the conference is $250 plus a $20 registration fee. The cost to attend for one day only is $125 plus a $20 registration fee. The conference will feature: ..Lectures by renowned authorities, including: legendary retailer, Stanley Marcus; one of America¹s great designers, James Galanos; and creator of the signature wrap dress, Diane Von Furstenberg. ..Panel discussions with guest presenters: Vera Wang, fashion designer; CNN style editor, Elsa Klensch; and designers of distinctive accessories: Judith Leiber, Patricia Underwood, and Robert Lee Morris, among other notable and influential industry leaders. ..Book signings to be held at Steelcase for The American Century written by Harold Evans and published by Alfred A. Knopf; and at Tiffany & Co. for Tiffany Jewels written by John Loring and published by Harry N. Abrams, Inc. ..A breakfast and private viewing of "Fashion on Stage: Couture for the Broadway Theater, 1910-1955," an exhibit at the Museum of the City of New York. ..A closing reception will be held at Saks Fifth Avenue. June Weir, former vice-president, Fairchild Publications and Lisa Koenigsberg, director, Programs in the Arts and adjunct associate professor at the School of Continuing and Professional Studies, will co-direct the conference. "The American Century: America's Fashion Ascendancy and Its Roots" is offered under the aegis of the program in appraisal studies in fine and decorative arts which is a part of The Division of Arts, Sciences, and Humanities. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:11:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07492 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:11:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17526; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14414 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:26:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.24]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA14405 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:26:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 49694 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 1999 02:26:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19991027022608.49693.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.248.210.251 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:26:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.248.210.251] From: "christianna del Oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: LOTS of questions Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:26:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "christianna del Oro" first anyone know any good online sources for italian ren patterns? i had a overdress that just tied ( one tie) in front to hold it closed it had 2 or 3 part sleeves chained to it. It looked like it would be relativly easy too make i can't get a hold of the person who loaned it too me for lender garb, and it has since disapeared from sight. i would really like to get the pattern or source for it. second i need tips on making a dove gray very soft suede jacket into a womens bodice? i guess i'll have use rivets for the holes and third does anyone know what happened to the sca site at kumc.edu ???? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:14:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07499 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17879; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14843 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f111.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.111]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA14835 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24335 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 1999 02:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19991027022849.24334.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.248.210.251 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:28:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.248.210.251] From: "christianna del Oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: one more q Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:28:49 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "christianna del Oro" >does any one know where or have instructions for griest sewing assesories? > i think i have kit # 4 or 6 thanks christianna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:26:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07507 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19129; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16572 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:40:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f42.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16559 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 34541 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 1999 02:40:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19991027024023.34540.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.248.210.251 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:40:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.248.210.251] From: "christianna del Oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: LOTS of questions Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:40:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "christianna del Oro" first anyone know any good online sources for italian ren patterns? i had a overdress that just tied ( one ribbon tie) in front to hold it closed it had 2 or 3 part sleeves chained to it.it had a relativly short bodice ending around the bottom of the breasts and it had a full pleated bottom. It looked like it would be relativly easy too make i can't get a hold of the person who loaned it too me for lender garb, and i have been told it has since disapeared from sight. i would really like to get the pattern or source for it. second i need tips on making a dove gray very soft suede jacket into a womens bodice? i guess i'll have use rivets for the holes and third does anyone know what happened to the sca site at kumc.edu ???? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 22:11:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07555 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:11:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23976; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24149 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:25:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24132 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-153.radiks.net [206.29.243.155]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA15022 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:23:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991026222429.03c2119c@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:24:29 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Unmistakably Mackie In-Reply-To: <199910270206.UAA10696@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In case anyone is interested, the catalogue from the Mackie exhibit at FIT is available from Amazon.com for a significant discount. Ours is on the way! (Wish we could see the real thing, tho! :( ] Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 22:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07559 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24989; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25632 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:34:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25623 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:34:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6NYU08CYJJ (4425) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b2edd6e4.2547ccb5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:34:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I guess I forgot about the 60s. I wore some of my mom's 60's fishnets in the early 80s as a punky sort of fashion statement...but really I was wondering about the 20s or before then - Victorian someone said, were they around that long ago? How old are they? Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 22:32:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07572 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:32:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26269; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27623 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:48:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27615 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.56.36] (56-162.netwurx.net [209.207.56.162]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26161 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:47:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3810F421.3088CF3E@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:48:28 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: Masques Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Sorry for the late reply... >>3. Would all clothing norms have flown out the window so to speak? >>For instance if the masque took place in Elizabeth's court would women >>have chosen not to wear their corsets if the outfit was say, Greek in >>the year 300c.e. ? > >In Elizabethan England, the women would have work a chiton over their court >clothes - corsets, hoops and all. No noblewoman would be seen without her >proper underclothing producing the correct silouette (sp?), even for a >masque. At least one piece of evidence to the contrary exists. The "Rainbow" portrait of Queen Elizabeth, which was painted c. 1603, clearly shows her without the huge barrel-shaped farthingale that appears in other portraits of the Queen in her last decade. Janet Arnold speculates that this, when considered with the fantastic headdress and other elements of the painting, may suggest that this costume was for a masque. I must mention that she certainly does seem to be wearing proper stays. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07611 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:07:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29071; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02557 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:20:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02542 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:20:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Gwnvr@aol.com Received: from Gwnvr@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GZL0PrNeH (4599) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.eef17742.2547d775@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:20:05 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gwnvr@aol.com Flash to the past! I was 12 in 1969, too, and living in a small town in Texas. One of my most embarrassing moments revolved around those stockings and a rather short dress. (Not a good mix) As I turned in a test paper at the front of the classroom, I leaned forward to staple my papers together thus revealing the top of the stockings and garters. Of course everyone began giggling and I was mortified. Thank God for pantyhose! I can't even imagine my daughter at 12 trying to wear garters and stockings! Jen In a message dated 10/26/99 8:42:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << the year I was 12, which would have been 1969, white fishnet stockings were de riguer for girls my age, and older teens, to wear to school. this was in a very small town in Northern California, where styles tended to be 3-5 years behind the times, so they may have bee popular around 66 or so in more sophisticated areas. I remember them particularly because it was my first experience with wearing garter stockings, and I found them horribly uncomfortable. Between the fishnets cutting into my toes and sitting on the garters, it was torture. It may explain why we were so happy shortly afterwards, when pantyhose (which I detest now) came in. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:07:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07609 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29072; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02589 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:20:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02576 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:20:51 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip85.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.85]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id VAA25680 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910270420.VAA25680@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:25:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: V&A supportasse Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3815B6EF.731269BD@post12.tele.dk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I have been to the museum several times, but when i have my partner with > me, i must se in a rush, because he dont find it as interresting as i > do, besides when you only have 5 days in London, there are other things > that you have to se. I know what you mean. There's never enough time. The gal I had brought to London with me as my "research assistant" was acting like that too. We call it "museum fatigue syndrome." ;) > One thing i have always wondered. Why dont the museum hire some people > who can draft the costumes to pattern. I am sure that there would be a > big sale on those items, it could pay itself and more i think. Why dont > they do this? They could sell it from the museum shop. Because the people have to have monetary backing to do it. Also, the people who are qualified to do it are too busy with other projects. (Which I suspect is why Janet Arnold didn't do it.) > This supportasse has a "thing" in the neck where it is fastened to the > back of the dress, and it has a special cut that i cant find out to make > (grrrrrrrrr.) I agree with the "grrrrr". I frequently have that reaction! > It is odd that Janet Arnold didn't make a draft of this when it is so > rare. I don't think they are all that rare. I think I saw one in the Textile and Costume Museum in Nottingham as well. However, they don't allow photographs and I don't remember things like that without it. (I do remember all the lace they had. Much more than in their Lace museum there, at least pre18th C.) > Bjarne in a cold, dark and rainy Copenhagen. It's cold, dark and rainy here in Washington State (Vancouver Washington, across the Columbia River from Portland, Oregon). However, my girlfriend in Redmond, Oregon called saying she might not be able to come to visit my husband and me for Halloween weekend because it just snowed 3" there. I'm no longer complaining. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:47:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07658 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:47:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01643; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08005 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08000 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Gwnvr@aol.com Received: from Gwnvr@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EJLMSTTS_ (4246) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b643fd8.2547e0de@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:00:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gwnvr@aol.com I was just disappointed when they trotted out that tired plot device..."kill off the girlfriend/wife so the hero can go crazy and get the action going" Please, are men not motivated by anything else? In a message dated 10/26/99 1:04:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scapreel@tip.nl writes: << Don't start me again on Bravehaert. Somebody mentioned that th >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:48:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07662 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:48:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01637; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07972 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07961 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Pandoorah@aol.com Received: from Pandoorah@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LIL0OhpMy (4313) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f7f9fb39.2547e0cb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:59:55 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Unmistakably Mackie To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/99 8:26:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, costumrs@radiks.net writes: > > In case anyone is interested, the catalogue from the Mackie exhibit at FIT > is available from Amazon.com for a significant discount. Ours is on the > way! (Wish we could see the real thing, tho! :( ] > > Sandy > It's a really great exhibit! Anyone who can, should try to get in to see it! Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 00:24:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07688 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04661; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12583 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:38:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12574 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.185] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11gLn1-0001Me-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:38:27 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:34:53 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? In-Reply-To: <6235FD3701AA3400@c2smtp.kentlaw.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:05 AM 10/08/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Hi, Katharine--I have two Chinese books that have many pictures of Chinese men in hats, inc. the one you described. If you already have the info. you sought, I will turn them back in. If not, I will sit down with the books and really delve. Please let me know. -- Gra/inne PS And this, thanks to our Asian Languages Reference Librarian, Phyllis Wang, who is a Super Lady!!! :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 03:55:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05365 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:55:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14690; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA01768 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:10:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca (hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca [207.107.250.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01752 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from suchanek (spc-isp-van-58-04-599.sprint.ca [209.148.244.92]) by hme0.mailrouter02.sprint.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA27167 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00fb01bf205b$1f947900$d7f494d1@suchanek> From: "suchanek" To: Subject: H-COST: re: needlework cushion Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:09:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "suchanek" Henk wrote: >...the fresco's of Ambrogio Lorenzetti in the Palazzo Publico of = >Siena called: Good and Bad Government and their Effects in Town and = >Countryside, ca 1338-39. In this ensemble their is a picture of Peace = >(Pax) as a woman dressed in a voluminous chemise resting on the armour = >of knights. She's reclining on a large cushion of white cloth with red = >decoration. My friend thinks these decorations are a kind of = >openwork-embroidery (making holes and pulling them together to form = >patterns) and that the cushion has a red lining. Is he right? I think he is. The painting reveals enough to guess that the pillow case is decorated with cut-work. According to F. Nevill Jackson, "CUT-WORK, or Italian Punto Tagliato, was made by cutting spaces out of closely-woven linen, and after buttonholing round the sides to prevent fraying, partly filling in the space with ornamental sitches. Elaborate embroidery in white linen thread usually found upon the plain linen in ancient specimens of this work. Gradually more of the linen was cut away, and more elaborate designs were filled in, until mere threads were left; these were buttonholed over, and Reticella or Greek lace was evolved." (Old Handmade Lace, 1900). The colour plate of the painting in a book that I have is quite small, but still shows enough detail. The cutwork squares have rather simple filling, and there is a suggestion of embroidery on linen. Even timing seems right: the more elaborate forms of Reticella evolved in the 15th century, so it is quite possible that the early cut-work was known in the 14th century. I wish I knew more facts to support my opinion, but my field of interest starts from Reticella, which is considered to be the first 'real' lace. Lenka _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 05:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05562 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19890; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06887 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:13:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f302.hotmail.com [209.185.130.91]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA06879 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 92132 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 1999 11:12:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19991027111254.92131.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.89 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:12:53 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.89] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:12:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" After reading Margo's comments about her experience with the Simplicity pattern, I'll admit I am now intrigued and must make a stop at the fabric store this afternoon on my way from work to check it out. Will let you know if I change my opinion!! It sounds from the description very much like the old McCalls' pattern I was talking about, and if so, I'd recommend it. As I said, will let you know. And now, I've got to see this "ugly" bonnet you guys are talking about... Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:10:12 -0700 > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 11:26 PM 10/25/1999 -0400, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > > >A new question for all of you: is there a pattern from the big three > >(simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, etc.) for a praire dress that has any > >basis in reality? For example, Simplicity 8755 has little sleeve ruffles > >and a hat that I can't figure out. > >the Simplicity pattern is really quite good for the 1880's, including the >sleeve ruffles. I made it (after altering it up to a size 26) with the >following changes: I ditched the zipper up the back and put buttons and >holes in front, on the yoke. I left the front seam open to waist level, >and >wore it with a waist tied apron that holds it closed. I also lengthened >the >dress to 2" off the ground. This style is really a wrapper, which in >period >would probably have had a fitted inner bodice. I didn't make one, and >don't >miss it. > >I almost never use commercial patterns, but this one was almost identical >to >the style I was planning to draft after much research. It went together in >an afternoon, and is so comfortable I'm going to make it up in cotton >flannel for home wear this winter. > >The bonnet is certainly strange though. I don't even care if it's period, >I'm just not putting something that ugly on my head. > >Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 06:19:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05602 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20934; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08559 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:34:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f78.hotmail.com [209.185.131.141]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA08554 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 39326 invoked by uid 0); 27 Oct 1999 11:33:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19991027113330.39325.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.89 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:33:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.89] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:33:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I've been watching for this thread to pick back up, as others were going off to do a bit of research & report back (I thought?) I examined some shirts with the pieces at the shoulders about which some of you were speculating could have been referred to as "straps" at the collection of the University of Rhode Island, of which Alda Kaye is curator, about two years ago. These were coarsely woven linen, bleached to an off-white, and at least two of them sported these "strap"-like pieces. Also, in Rural Pennsylvania Clothing, my copy of which is being loaned to a friend right now, I am certain the author Ellen Gehret refers to these straps and gives information as to their cutting and positioning on the shirts. And if memory serves me correctly, she alludes to their being used as reinforcement in an area where the shirts received alot of stress and were apt to pull away from the neck gussets. I know that the men for whom I make shirts will attest to this, and most of them who work at historic farm sites and many who portray soldiers prefer them for this reason. Anyone? Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris > > > > In a message dated 9/12/1999 2:38:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: > > > > It would be highly unusual for the method of packing to be given on an > > inventory list. The inventory for 1776 lists 10 "white strapt" shirts >(and > > no other kind), the 1777 inventory gives 10 "white strapt" shirts and 6 > > "check strapt" shirts, and the 1778 inventory has 4 "cotton striped" >shirts, > > 6 "white strapt" shirts, and 2 "check Plain" shirts. > > > >This is COMPLETE speculation, based on working-class shirts from nearly a >century and a half later.. but could it possibly refer to a shirt that was >meant to be worn with suspenders? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06991 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:45:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04729; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26186 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:00:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from po2.bbn.com (PO2.BBN.COM [192.1.50.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26178 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apoppers_3 (sagan.bbn.com [128.33.216.234]) by po2.bbn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA24165 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991027100029.00969690@POP.SYS.GTEI.NET> X-Sender: apoppers@POP.SYS.GTEI.NET X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:00:29 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Asia Poppers Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Asia Poppers I seem to recall reading somewhere that in the 18-teens, at the height of the popularity of those super-lightweight muslin gowns, it became quite chic to wear a pair of black net hose over a pair of solid pink ones, to give the impression of bare, rosy legs covered only in fishnet when seen through the lightweight, semi-sheer skirt of a muslin gown. I regret to admit that I have no idea whatsoever where I read this, and so I can't offer any opinion as to its accuracy. Sorry... Asia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06995 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:45:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04088; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25457 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:56:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25448 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mystic.excite.com ([199.172.152.98]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991027135552.ZYRX9301.gigi.excite.com@mystic.excite.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:55:52 -0700 From: "maureen+ brown" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Japanese clothing Message-Id: <941032551.1724.395@excite.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:55:51 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.138.157.157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "maureen+ brown" I have another question about Japanese clothing, this one *I think* is a kimono with a kind of hunting sleeve. (An image of what I'm trying to make can be seen here: http://www.ualberta.ca/~aziesel/inuyasha/tank5.html; the red costume.) I haven't been able to find a source for this kimono; I've been able to find a garment with those sleeves for hunting (kariginu? suikan?), but always with a tunic type body rather than a kimono. It's supposed to be from 15th century Japan, but it is a comic book so I have no way of knowing how authentic it is (or whether the artist was going for that anyway). The question I have is about the folded section in front above the belt; what is this??? The only thing I've been able to come up with is from The Book of Kimono; when it shows the section on putting a kimono on, they fold up the "excess material" in front and fold it below the obi in a way that looks similar to this pouchy thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated...... --Maureen ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 09:53:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09702 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13692; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10108 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:04:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10101 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA28176 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:03:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:03:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199910271503.IAA28176@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: watching films with costumers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:00 AM 10/27/1999 EDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: Gwnvr@aol.com > >I was just disappointed when they trotted out that tired plot device..."kill >off the girlfriend/wife so the hero can go crazy and get the action going" >Please, are men not motivated by anything else? > Yes, money, power, and threatened masculinity. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 10:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09754 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:10:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17047; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:25:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15382 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:25:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15358 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991027152526.EKSD8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:25:27 -0700 Message-ID: <38171996.4A5E2AF@home.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:26:14 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Does anyone on this list have ANY info on women's suits or jackets worn over dresses in 1926? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:23:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09866 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28368; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02086 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02072 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:24 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DNDa08114 (4248) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b94399c4.254882b9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:30:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/27/1999 11:28:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kdyer@home.com writes: << Does anyone on this list have ANY info on women's suits or jackets worn over dresses in 1926? >> You sound desperate! What do you need? The answer is yes if the question is did they wear suits or dresses with matching [or not] jackets. The jackets are like the gowns....cut straight & softly draped; not much if any stiffening or padding. They will often form the hipline emphasis by ending there, with a band or belt of some kind. If they are longer than hip level, say to mid thigh, they can have belts at the hip level often passing though slits in the jacket. Under this can be found skirt & blouses and even vests but all will be cut straight with no heavy tailoring. Blouses usually are untucked and stop at that ever present hip level. Everything is soft soft soft. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:23:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09867 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29359; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03475 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:36:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03459 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:36:54 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VIM7_ceq_ (4248) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.eacf8a33.254883ff@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:36:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Oh...I forgot! One of my favorite forms of jacket dressing in the 20s [and later] is favored by Coco Chanel. She'll make the dress out of a beautiful, light fabric usually with some pattern printed on or woven into it. The jacket will take the form of a "floater coat"....it just hangs from the shoulders without closings. It will be a solid matching color but will be lined with the same fabric the dress is made of. This you of course see as the woman walks & moves and the light airy open coat moves. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:30:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09887 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:29:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00757; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05863 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:44:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05824 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:44:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16337 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:44:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from henk (vp213-175.worldonline.nl [195.241.213.175]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07663 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:44:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <008b01bf209a$73ac7e40$afd5f1c3@henk> From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" To: References: <0.8b9f6abe.25478c28@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:22:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" Hi, Gail wrote: > I am interested to hear so many people's opinions of "Braveheart," because it > was such a popular film. Here is my experience with it: My husband and I saw > it in the theater and really liked it. In fact, we raved about it. Then we > checked out the real history (we have a strange habit of doing that . . .) > and found, as usual with a historical film, that it was much more > interesting. That's just my handicap: I know too much of medieval history and customs to be able to take the nonsense Hollywood shows. They don't have the knowledge (I mean writers, art directors, costumers, setdesigners and finally directors) to make a good product which is a good story as well as a spectacular film. The real histories are often much more interesting than what Hollywood makes of them, because movies, according to the powers that be, have to underwrite a kind of cliche vision of historiy and storytelling. The prince, though gay, was actually an accomplished tournament > fighter who was quite admired, though everyone hated him because he played > favorites. Edward was admired and loved by his servants and the common people, because he was one of the few English kings who took care of them as people not as cattle, but, except for his mother, stepmother, sisters and half-brothers, most of the nobility loathed this behaviour and the favouritism that was his weakness. Het was also a very athletic, strong and handsome man with the strawberry blond hair of the real Plantagenets and he was by the time he became king a seasoned campaigner and armyleader. > William Wallace introduced a lot of interesting group fighting > techniques and strategies. In fact he used the already ancient way of fighting of the Scots (guerilla warfare) in an intelligent way. He also used the already existing schiltron, a pikeman's square, to very great effect in the few set battles he fought. Pointed wooden staves, pah! They used 10 foot spears/pikes in formations that fought with great discipline.Don't make me laugh: kilts and blue faces!!! > The princess was only 11 years old at the time. Edward II and Isabelle married in 1308 in France (not England) when she was 16 and he 23 and already king but not crowned, 3 years after Wallace was executed and 1 year after Edward I died. Isabella might have come over for the wedding of her aunt Margaret to Edward I in 1299, but it is not certain and I doubt it. She therefore most probably had not been to England before her marriage and the whole story of her meeting Wallace and even making a probable bastard is utter nonsense. > Anyway, despite thinking the real > thing would have made a better story, Hear, hear! > Anyway, there were some parts I liked (the fact that the > characters spoke numerous languages, for instance, which is rarely addressed > in medieval films; The royal family and most of the nobility spoke French and did not bother to speak English. Edward II is supposed to have talked English with his subjects, another point in his favour (or disfavour). His son Edward III was fluent in English as well as French and Latin and a smatter of Dutch and German. Wallace was a Lowlands gentleman of knight-status (he lived in a manor house near Glasgow, not a hovel somewhere in the Highlands) and must have spoken French as well as Scottish-English. He was definitely no Highlander and it's doubtful that he spoke more than a few words of Gaelic. As far as I know everybody spoke English in the movie although Mel's tried to speak with a Scottish accent; it was laughable. > and the whole idea that being married might be important > to anyone is sadly left out of most movies) I'm not sure what you mean by this: Edward's or Wallace's wedding? > but on the whole we both agree that it stunk. I could not agree more... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:36:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09893 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:36:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01161; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06428 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:47:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06395 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0627.gti.net [208.216.122.27]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17148 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38172C39.36A40BDA@gti.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:45:51 -0400 From: deborah rand X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits References: <38171996.4A5E2AF@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: deborah rand Kat- What kind of info exactly? Do you want to draft a pattern? ~Deb Rand _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:40:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15594 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12490; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24058 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24046 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28576 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38173C92.DE51A91@serv.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:55:30 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will find that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on this! Cynthia > ----- Forwarded message from Robert J Welenc ----- > > Forwarded with permission. > Lady Karen Larsdatter, Deputy KMoAS for Atlantia writes: > > >So I says to myself ... "SELF!! There's some free time between now > and > >5:00; let's go looking for links for the MoAS site." > > > >So I look for new pages under some keywords that I like to use. > > > >And I find a website. Really interesting company in Canada, telling > me > >that they're awfully knowledgeable at event productions. > >http://www.narnia-productions.com > > > >And I use the little search window at the top to find information > about > >their packages for "A Shakespearean Wedding." Because, y'know, > >sometimes information for themed weddings can be humorous. > > > >And they've even got some interesting articles at the bottom of the > >page. Like, for example, the "Information and Patterns - Coifs" > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's2.html). > > > >So I click on that. And I says to myself, "SELF!! This looks > mighty > >familiar." And I go to my friend Drea's page -- you know Drea, she > >does that wonderful Elizabethan Costuming page -- and lo and behold, > it > >looks an awful lot like the coif pages I'd sent her some pictures > for a > >coupla' years ago > >(http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coif.html and > >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coifmake.html). > > > >Well, that's mighty interesting. > > > >Narnia Productions sells theatrical make-up and books and that sort > of > >thing. So, naturally, I'm awfully interested to read their article > on > >"Make Up Techniques of the 16th Century," especially since I'm > slowly > >working on a page of links on period cosmetics for the MoAS site > >(http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/cosm.htm), and the only other > page > >I know of that has period cosmetics for that part of history is > another > >one of Drea's pages -- the "Elizabethan Make-Up 101" > >(http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/makeup.html). > > > >So I look at Narnia Productions' site at > >http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500'smu.html and darn if it ain't > >familiar ... except for the photograph being on the other side of > the > >page. Plus, an additional page, which shows you which of their > >products you should buy for that Elizabethan look that's all the > rage. > > > >Zowie, I think I'm beginning to notice a trend. > > > >Their page on blackwork > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/blackwork.html) seems awfully > >similar to content at the Blackwork Embroidery Archives > >(http://www.pacificnet.net/~pmarmor/bwarch.html). And their page on > >stays (http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's1.html) sure doesn't > >credit Caroline Vincent, but it looks an awful lot like one of her > >pages (http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/stays.htm). > > > >I've emailed Drea and PK Marmor and Catherine Vincent but haven't > heard > >back from 'em yet ... but this wouldn't be the first time I've seen > >this sort of thing happen *without* the original author's > permission. > > > >I just get so angry when it does ... > > [Alanna's note: this is more than angry-making -- this is copyright > theft, and legally actionable.] > > >The main page for the Elizabethan section says, "You may be planning > to > >recreate the 16th Century with a beautiful Renaissance Wedding or > >Event. You might be capitalizing on the popularity of the > Elizabethan > >Era by staging a play set in the 1500's. In any case, we have > gathered > >the information and resources you'll need to create authenticity. > >We are featuring the tips and techniques, including patterns and > >step-by-step makeup procedure, in an attempt to create a > comprehensive > >overview of the period. You will find the supplies you require, > >including the wigs and makeup and some great links to other sites. > So > >read on- have a Wonderful Production, a Unique Wedding or > Renaissance > >Event and please let us know if you need any further assistance. > We're > >full of good ideas!" > > > >I sure am tempted to ask them about the coif that it says right > there > >on the webpage that they've made ... or their lovely (but awfully > >familiar) blackwork designs ... ;) > > > >Karen > > One also wonders if they have the permission of the heirs of C. S. > Lewis to use the name 'Narnia'... > > Alanna Volchevo Lesa > Partan Herald > > ----- End of forwarded message from Robert J Welenc ----- > > -- > Conflict checker to knaves, knights, kings, and all between. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:42:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15765 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03964; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23910 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:54:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb09.swip.net (mb09.swip.net [193.12.122.212]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23897; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.151.240.49] (d212-151-240-49.swipnet.se [212.151.240.49]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11197; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:54:52 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <88F7A26269@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199910231819.MAA25437@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:26:14 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Ninni Pettersson Subject: H-COST: Mostly OT (was: h-costume-digest V4 #735) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ninni Pettersson At 11.20 +0100 99-10-25, teddy1 wrote: >> - -Poster: Ninni Pettersson >> >> >Am I a Lucky Bunny or what? >> >> No, you are a very naughty, indeed evil, bunny, saying things >> like that straight out without preparing us first. The more >> sensitive of us might get a heart attack from the shock (or >> possibly from the envy :-) > >Oh, Ninni, does this mean you aren't going to come @round the >silk mill and museum with me when I come to Stockholm in >November...? melodramatic manner>.... > >Teddy >(Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of >air and darkness, apparently!) Of course I will! I thought I were paying you a compliment. After all you *are* an evil bunny, aren't you? /Ninni _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15772 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:55:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07007; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27224 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27211; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910272008.OAA27211@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: looking for Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Would Margo Anderson please contact me privately off-list? many thanks Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage & fine hand-sewn, embroidered garments http://www.5rivers.org e-mail: info@5rivers.org _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15776 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06960; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27142 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27127; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910272008.OAA27127@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elisabeth Amalie von Haimhausen Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisabeth Amalie von Haimhausen At 04:36 23.10.99 , you wrote: >Yeah.. I know it's not a good example :] I have all sorts of photocopies >here at home, but with no scanner, I can't get them up onto my site.. I've >found another that's *slightly* better. >http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE34AX.HTML *that* lady is french so it's not a good example either... >You see how the bust is being supported somewhat in a Victorian shape? (I >know that could be part of the re-drawing of the figures in the book :] But it's true that they weren't flat-fronted - they didn't use boing in the=20 bodice front, so it bulged somewhat. the question is: was the bodice as heavily stiffened as you made yours? if= =20 yes, it would still flatten the breast unless there were shaping seams. or= =20 maybe it was only stiffened over the tummy? if it was not or only lightly=20 stiffened, you'd get horizontal creases which are not in evidence in any=20 painting i know. could be the artists left them out because they didn't=20 look good... salut, amalie Yours, etc, Elisabeth Amalie Gr=E4fin von Haimhausen also known outside the 18th century as His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs) http://www.marquise.de costume@gmx.li=20 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:07:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15793 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08110; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28389 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:13:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28373 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:06:12 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB50D@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: German Ren Bodices Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:06:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I'm coming into the middle of this, Iknow, but it would be beter if you weren't working out of Braun & Schneider. There are so many other, not to mention better, sources for just about anything. Cheers! MaggiRos A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net Leap, and the net will appear. --Orson Wells > -----Original Message----- > From: Elisabeth Amalie von Haimhausen [SMTP:costume@gmx.li] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:09 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices > > > -Poster: Elisabeth Amalie von Haimhausen > > At 04:36 23.10.99 , you wrote: > > >Yeah.. I know it's not a good example :] I have all sorts of photocopies > >here at home, but with no scanner, I can't get them up onto my site.. > I've > >found another that's *slightly* better. > >http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE34AX.HTML > > *that* lady is french so it's not a good example either... > > >You see how the bust is being supported somewhat in a Victorian shape? (I > >know that could be part of the re-drawing of the figures in the book :] > But > > it's true that they weren't flat-fronted - they didn't use boing in > the=20 bodice front, so it bulged somewhat. the question is: was the > bodice as heavily stiffened as you made yours? if= =20 yes, it would > still flatten the breast unless there were shaping seams. or= =20 > maybe it was only stiffened over the tummy? if it was not or only > lightly=20 stiffened, you'd get horizontal creases which are not in > evidence in any=20 painting i know. could be the artists left them out > because they didn't=20 look good... > > > salut, > amalie > > > Yours, etc, Elisabeth Amalie Gr=E4fin von Haimhausen > also known outside the 18th century as > His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs) > http://www.marquise.de costume@gmx.li=20 > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:22:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15854 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:22:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11971; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03985 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:35:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03964 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:27:52 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB50E@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who i ndulge in it] Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:27:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Hunh, the background art for the Shakespearean wedding page is directly off the front page of my (non-costume related) website. And also the work of Paula Kate Marmor (pkm@dm.net). This IS interesting. I suppose I should be flattered. We do sometimes get requests for our graphics, so perhaps they asked and I've forgotten. I should start keeping better track of these things. This wouldn't be so bad except that they've apparently copied the pages as their own, instead of, with permission, linking to Drea's and Katie's and Catherine's sites --oh yeah, and the REC's page on accents too!--and so on. (That's the Renaissance Pleasure Faire, for those outside the REC's sphere of influence.) So they've made sure to put the rest of their tainted links at the bottom of most of them. They did leave the blackwork page with its copyright statement and links back to the rest of pkm's embroidery stuff. Now that's irony. MaggiRos A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net Leap, and the net will appear. --Orson Wells > -----Original Message----- > From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris [SMTP:keltia@serv.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 6:56 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who > indulge in it] > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for > www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will > find > that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on > this! Cynthia > > > ----- Forwarded message from Robert J Welenc ----- > > > > Forwarded with permission. > > Lady Karen Larsdatter, Deputy KMoAS for Atlantia writes: > > > > >So I says to myself ... "SELF!! There's some free time between now > > and > > >5:00; let's go looking for links for the MoAS site." > > > > > >So I look for new pages under some keywords that I like to use. > > > > > >And I find a website. Really interesting company in Canada, telling > > me > > >that they're awfully knowledgeable at event productions. > > >http://www.narnia-productions.com > > > > > >And I use the little search window at the top to find information > > about > > >their packages for "A Shakespearean Wedding." Because, y'know, > > >sometimes information for themed weddings can be humorous. > > > > > >And they've even got some interesting articles at the bottom of the > > >page. Like, for example, the "Information and Patterns - Coifs" > > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's2.html). > > > > > >So I click on that. And I says to myself, "SELF!! This looks > > mighty > > >familiar." And I go to my friend Drea's page -- you know Drea, she > > >does that wonderful Elizabethan Costuming page -- and lo and behold, > > it > > >looks an awful lot like the coif pages I'd sent her some pictures > > for a > > >coupla' years ago > > >(http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coif.html and > > >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coifmake.html). > > > > > >Well, that's mighty interesting. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:56:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15913 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16389; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11420 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:04:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11382 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p46.directcon.net [206.170.184.145]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02708 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:03:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:03:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199910272103.OAA02708@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >This wouldn't be so bad except that they've apparently copied the pages as >their own, instead of, with permission, linking to Drea's and Katie's and >Catherine's sites --oh yeah, and the REC's page on accents too!--and so on. >(That's the Renaissance Pleasure Faire, for those outside the REC's sphere Marc Carlson's shoe site is also plagarized on their website. Gee, I'm starting to feel a bit left out. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:04:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15926 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18002; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14361 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:17:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14353 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06826 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38176C5E.841FF5EB@serv.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:19:27 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesseswho indulge in it] References: <199910272103.OAA02708@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Marc Carlson's shoe site is also plagarized on their website. Gee, I'm > starting to feel a bit left out. Aw, honey, it just because they're an old website. They stole before you were up and running. *GGGGGGG* Give 'em enough time and you too can have a copyright nightmare. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15935 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20380; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18247 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:32:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18217 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-53.ici.net [207.180.41.53]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22074 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910272131.RAA22074@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:11 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA18228 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir One of the people in the many levels of quoting and forwarding of the original post mentioned: > [Alanna's note: this is more than angry-making -- this is copyright > theft, and legally actionable.] So my question is... What would be the first step? (Not that _I_ will be doing anything, as it was not _my_ work that was stolen, but I am very curious.) Also, are those people whose work has been stolen taking action? Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:44:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15964 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:44:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24188; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23703 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:57:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23666 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991027215717.IXYP8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:57:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3817756D.88F9B936@home.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:58:05 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits References: <38171996.4A5E2AF@home.com> <38172C39.36A40BDA@gti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent deborah rand wrote: > > What kind of info exactly? Do you want to draft a pattern? Actually, I'd prefer to avoid having to draft a pattern... I've already gotten a bunch of dresses from the Goodwill Warehouse and I'll be going back this weekend. If I can find suitable items... or ones that can be easily altered, I'll go with that first... but if I can't find anything I'll need to make something for them. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:53:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16004 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:53:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25228; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25353 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:04:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25343 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991027220446.JADL8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:04:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3817772E.5C5DEA07@home.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:05:34 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1926 Women's Suits References: <0.b94399c4.254882b9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Okay... now I have a better idea of what I'm looking for (all hail the great Goodwill! ). Now to match the dresses I already have with parts and then figure out what I need while making costumes for Halloween for my son & cousin! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16015 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26932; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28275 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:17:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28258 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:17:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6CZV0N0RU2 (3951) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d7be19d0.2548d3d9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:16:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com I missed the original post...could someone please forward it to me. I want to have a clue...I really do about what everyone is talking about :-) Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:09:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16027 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27637; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29243 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:22:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29220 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:22:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6USHa21033 (3966) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.1d4fc89b.2548d4f2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:21:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Yes, that was Nathanial Parker in both roles. A Keanu Reeves lookalike who can act. He was also in "Othello" (with Fishburn & Branagh). Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:12:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16033 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:12:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28044; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00115 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29997 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ZFOa26506 (3966) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3983cc16.2548d5c9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:25:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: fishnets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I used to wear a pair of colored tights with a pair of contrasting fishnets over them. Went well with the thigh-high boots and miniskirts. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16085 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00952; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05071 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:47:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05057 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.68.233]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FKA00JCF9YJ5Q@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:39:34 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: watching films with costumers To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <38171CAF.7E94241E@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910271503.IAA28176@apollo.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Margo wrote: >> I was just disappointed when they trotted out that tired plot device..." >> kill off the girlfriend/wife so the hero can go crazy and get the action >> going" Please, are men not motivated by anything else? > > Yes, money, power, and threatened masculinity. Come on! You forgot the desire to have a good, cold beer!! (Can we stop male bashing now?) In jest, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 18:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16162 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:22:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07397; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14875 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:35:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14862 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mouse-s-box (cvx01-040.sfo.wenet.net [206.169.248.40]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA20506 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910272335.QAA20506@smtp.well.com> X-Sender: mouse@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:34:55 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lee Carter Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] In-Reply-To: <38173C92.DE51A91@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lee Carter At 10:55 AM 10/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for >www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will find >that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on >this! Cynthia > I must concur with this statement. I too look at this site. Talk of copyright infringement. I hope that those authors and designers contact this site or the site provider to complain about giving credit where credit is due. Gwenyth of Mousehold Heath who also works for Dept. of Justice _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 18:58:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16180 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14655; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:12:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21674 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:11:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21657 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03962 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:10:16 -0400 Message-ID: <38179469.EA1D145A@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:11:39 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it References: <38173C92.DE51A91@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue ...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for > www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will find > that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on > this! Cynthia -- Never attribute to Devil-worshipping conspiracies what opportunism, emotional instability, and religious bigotry are sufficient to explain. -- Shawn Carlson, Ph.D _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16248 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23478; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04170 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:38:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04158 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-53.ici.net [207.180.41.53]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA02590 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910280138.VAA02590@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:38:05 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id TAA04160 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir Gwenyth wrote: >I must concur with this statement. I too look at this site. Talk of >copyright infringement. I hope that those authors and designers contact >this site or the site provider to complain about giving credit where credit >is due. and Cynthia wrote: >...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on >you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning towards a much harsher reaction. I think perhaps people have missed the point that they're a business, and they've been using the stolen material to promote their sales. Admittedly, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that because of this they've opened themselves right up to a copyright infringement suit which could ask for money damages. I can see if others don't feel so strongly as me. (Which is sorta why I asked what others thought was the first step to take.) I just think that since they've been making money off of other peoples work, they ought to get more than just a slap on the wrist. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16265 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24838; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06001 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:50:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05992 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:50:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991028015038.JJJX23900.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@C59303A> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:50:38 -0700 Message-ID: <00d301bf20e6$d602fc30$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <38173C92.DE51A91@serv.net> <38179469.EA1D145A@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:42:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" Ok Ladies and gents here is what I have been able to "dig" up on this site. So email your complaints while you can. :) Myrias Computer Technologies Inc. (NET-MYRIAS) 8522 Davies Road Edmonton, Alberta Calgary, AB T5N 4Y5 CA http://cal.sfl.net/ Netname: MYRIAS Netnumber: 139.142.0.0 Maintainer: MYRA Coordinator: Shaw Fiberlink Ltd, Ip Administrator (IAS-ARIN) ipadmin@CAL.SFL.NET (403) 750-4677 (FAX) (403) 750-6999 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NS.CG.SFL.NET 139.142.2.2 NS.MT.SFL.NET 209.135.99.2 Record last updated on 30-Dec-1998. Database last updated on 27-Oct-1999 15:54:52 EDT. Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 7:11 PM Subject: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it > > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > ...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on > you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. > > Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > > While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for > > www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will find > > that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on > > this! Cynthia > -- > Never attribute to Devil-worshipping conspiracies what opportunism, > emotional instability, and religious bigotry are sufficient to explain. > -- Shawn Carlson, Ph.D > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:51:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16304 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:51:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26166; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08209 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:06:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08204; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:06:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6ACa023354 (4328); Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.f9053fda.2549096f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:05:35 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Theft of Drea Leed's copyrighted work To: h-costume-digest@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com Regarding the theft of some of Drea's work for the Narnia website..... if a strongly worded demand to remove the stolen material from her site doesn't work, then I'd think the next step is going to Narnia's webhost. (I frankly wouldn't bother with a polite request to Joan Herron/Narnia at this point.... it's obvious that the Narnia website creator blatantly stole this information....being that some of the other links on the "Shakespeare and Love" page go directly to another website --- like the first one for Elizabethan footwear patterns going directly to the http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SLIST5.HTM website. I don't believe any author would have a problem with a link....but to copy the information and claim authorship is plain theft. And yes, in checking her source code, she DOES claim authorship. This from the makeup page: "META NAME="author" CONTENT="Joan Herron- Narnia Productions"> If she won't take it down, I'd suggest contacting her webspace provider. >From the Whois records she gets her webspace from Islandnet.com (all information from the record pasted below). Webspace providers don't like having clients who get embroiled in copyright infringement actions... they can be involved, albeit unwillingly, and I know of a couple cases here where putting pressure on an upstream webspace provider got the violater to pull down a site. ++++++++++++++++ Registrant: Narnia Productions (NARNIA-PRODUCTIONS-DOM) 1170 Gerda Rd. Victoria, B.C. V8Z 2Z4 CA Domain Name: NARNIA-PRODUCTIONS.COM Administrative Contact: Herron, Joan (JH16597) dangelo@ISLANDNET.COM 250-744-2161 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Morley, Mark (MM5709) domains@ISLANDNET.COM 1-250-383-0096 (FAX) 1-250-383-6698 Billing Contact: Herron, Joan (JH16597) dangelo@ISLANDNET.COM 250-744-2161 Record last updated on 21-Oct-1998. Record created on 15-Oct-1998. Database last updated on 26-Oct-1999 17:54:51 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.ISLANDNET.COM 199.175.106.253 NS2.ISLANDNET.COM 199.175.107.253 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ What does all this have to do with h-costume? Anyone who puts copyrighted information on the 'net has a right to keep that information under their name and control. And I know a lot of the folks who post to this list have costume related sites..... if we all don't protest this blatant theft......whose site is the next victim? ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:55:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16312 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:55:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26642; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08702 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:10:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08694 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8757 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 02:10:14 -0000 Received: from i48-38-16.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO teleport.com) (216.26.62.16) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 02:10:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3817AE32.D6CD5BEE@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:00:19 -0700 From: Stephen Fairman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it References: <199910280138.VAA02590@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Fairman Irene leNoir wrote: > -Poster: Irene leNoir > > Gwenyth wrote: > >I must concur with this statement. I too look at this site. Talk of > >copyright infringement. I hope that those authors and designers contact > >this site or the site provider to complain about giving credit where credit > >is due. > > and Cynthia wrote: > >...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on > >you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. > > While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have > to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning > towards a much harsher reaction. > > I think perhaps people have missed the point that they're a business, and > they've been using the stolen material to promote their sales. > Admittedly, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that because of this > they've opened themselves right up to a copyright infringement suit which > could ask for money damages. > > I can see if others don't feel so strongly as me. (Which is sorta why I > asked what others thought was the first step to take.) I just think that > since they've been making money off of other peoples work, they ought to > get more than just a slap on the wrist. > > Jessica Clark > SCA: Irène leNoir > irene@ici.net > http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica > > I agree with the desire to punish, or receive some gain. Lifting peoples work and using it in your business site is despicable. Any usually, people will grant the right very easily. Yours Esteban McLachan Shadow's Treasure Chest http://www.cyberis.net/~fairman1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16385 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28375; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10862 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:24:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f222.hotmail.com [209.185.130.160]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10850 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 42107 invoked by uid 0); 28 Oct 1999 02:24:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19991028022412.42106.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.207 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:24:11 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.207] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:24:11 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Fran? Rob Shep? What say you on this subject? As people in the book business, I know I have seen posts from one or both of you on copyright infringement & the law. Your 2c would be interesting in this case. Susannah > > and Cynthia wrote: > > >...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on > > >you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. > > > > While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have > > to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning > > towards a much harsher reaction. > > > > I think perhaps people have missed the point that they're a business, >and > > they've been using the stolen material to promote their sales. > > Admittedly, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that because of this > > they've opened themselves right up to a copyright infringement suit >which > > could ask for money damages. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16414 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:20:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29764; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12488 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f201.hotmail.com [209.185.130.111]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA12476 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 56168 invoked by uid 0); 28 Oct 1999 02:34:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19991028023430.56166.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.207 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:34:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.207] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:34:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" After checking out the aforementioned version of a "Prairie Wrapper" available in a commercial pattern, I had the uncomfortable decision of bringing out my old and very much patched flame undies and letting fly with MHO, or keeping my mouth shut. I choose the latter in this case. The bonnet, btw, is a button bonnet, fashioned after the originals that came apart in order to be easier to iron. Not a very good one, better ones are available from Sunbonnet Treasures, carried by Amazon Drygoods. They offer octagon, round, and square shaped button bonnets. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris >From: "Susannah Eanes" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:12:53 PDT > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >After reading Margo's comments about her experience with the Simplicity >pattern, I'll admit I am now intrigued and must make a stop at the fabric >store this afternoon on my way from work to check it out. Will let you >know >if I change my opinion!! It sounds from the description very much like the >old McCalls' pattern I was talking about, and if so, I'd recommend it. As >I >said, will let you know. > >And now, I've got to see this "ugly" bonnet you guys are talking about... > >Susannah > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." > --William Morris > >> >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" >> > >> >A new question for all of you: is there a pattern from the big three >> >(simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, etc.) for a praire dress that has any >> >basis in reality? For example, Simplicity 8755 has little sleeve >>ruffles >> >and a hat that I can't figure out. >> >>the Simplicity pattern is really quite good for the 1880's, including the >>sleeve ruffles. I made it (after altering it up to a size 26) with the >>following changes: I ditched the zipper up the back and put buttons and >>holes in front, on the yoke. I left the front seam open to waist level, >>and >>wore it with a waist tied apron that holds it closed. I also lengthened >>the >>dress to 2" off the ground. This style is really a wrapper, which in >>period >>would probably have had a fitted inner bodice. I didn't make one, and >>don't >>miss it. >> >>I almost never use commercial patterns, but this one was almost identical >>to >>the style I was planning to draft after much research. It went together >>in >>an afternoon, and is so comfortable I'm going to make it up in cotton >>flannel for home wear this winter. >> >>The bonnet is certainly strange though. I don't even care if it's period, >>I'm just not putting something that ugly on my head. >> >>Margo >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:24:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16418 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00794; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13385 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:39:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13378 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.140] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11gfTa-000037-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:39:42 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:36:12 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses whoindulge in it] In-Reply-To: <0.d7be19d0.2548d3d9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 06:16 PM 10/27/1999, Charles wrote: I missed the original post...could someone please forward it to me. I want to have a clue...I really do about what everyone is talking about :-) Chas Replied privately...Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:31:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16424 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01940; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14462 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:47:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f229.hotmail.com [209.185.130.167]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA14455 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 39301 invoked by uid 0); 28 Oct 1999 02:46:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19991028024646.39300.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.207 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:46:45 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.207] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency Trims Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:46:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Just back from an event this past weekend, saw an old friend who has a delightful assortment of ribbons, tapes and trims, some of which may be exactly what you are looking for. He had several colors of a particularly interesting type of ribbon-flower chain-like trim --pink and blue come to mind. I wish I had looked at it more closely, it may be exactly what you need. Contact Mary and Ken at: Wooded Hamlet Designs 4044 Coseytown Road Greencastle, PA 17225 (717) 597-1782 In general, they are an excellent source for such obscure and useful items as waxed linen cord, brass buckles, linen & hemp twine, silk ribbon, service & military laces, woolen braid, striped gartering, antique bone 2 & 4 hole buttons, hand wrought brass buttons, button molds, and other delightful things. No affiliation, just an affectionate and loyal customer. Susannah >From: "Vince Lyons" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: H-COST: Regency Trims >Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:10:34 -0400 > >Cheers everyone! > >I'm looking for sources for trim that would be appropriate on an 1810-ish >evening gown. Im thinking of using a *lot* of small rosettes, I'm not up >to making them myself and the type you generally find in the notions >departments just seem a bit too "commercial-looking". > >Thanks for any and all info! >~*~Kerrie~*~ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:36:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16428 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02373; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15229 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:52:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f33.hotmail.com [209.185.131.96]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA15219 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13536 invoked by uid 0); 28 Oct 1999 02:51:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19991028025138.13535.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.99.87.55 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:51:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.99.87.55] From: "m b" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:51:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "m b" If one is going to point out the differences between historical fact, and fiction, why not ALSO point out the things in the film that really DID happen! How else can you show more than a biased viewpoint? Wallace might not have been a highlander, but he did spend a great deal of time there. He was a patriot for his country who stood up for what he believed, and died for it as well. He was drawn and quartered, and his 'parts' were indeed sent to the "four corners" of Scotland as a warning to other Scots. Indeed, not much more is known for SURE about him. There are no pictures of the man, mostly just word of mouth passed from one generation to another. Only one possession of William Wallace's remains...his sword....housed in the Wallace Monument located in Stirling...across the bridge from Stirling castle....both sites of two of his major battles. just a thought..... >From: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:22:56 +0200 > > >-Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > >Hi, > >Gail wrote: > > I am interested to hear so many people's opinions of "Braveheart," >because >it > > was such a popular film. Here is my experience with it: My husband and I >saw > > it in the theater and really liked it. In fact, we raved about it. Then >we > > checked out the real history (we have a strange habit of doing that . . >.) > > and found, as usual with a historical film, that it was much more > > interesting. > >That's just my handicap: I know too much of medieval history and customs to >be able to take the nonsense Hollywood shows. They don't have the knowledge >(I mean writers, art directors, costumers, setdesigners and finally >directors) to make a good product which is a good story as well as a >spectacular film. The real histories are often much more interesting than >what Hollywood makes of them, because movies, according to the powers that >be, have to underwrite a kind of cliche vision of historiy and >storytelling. > >The prince, though gay, was actually an accomplished tournament > > fighter who was quite admired, though everyone hated him because he >played > > favorites. > >Edward was admired and loved by his servants and the common people, because >he was one of the few English kings who took care of them as people not as >cattle, but, except for his mother, stepmother, sisters and half-brothers, >most of the nobility loathed this behaviour and the favouritism that was >his >weakness. Het was also a very athletic, strong and handsome man with the >strawberry blond hair of the real Plantagenets and he was by the time he >became king a seasoned campaigner and armyleader. > > > William Wallace introduced a lot of interesting group fighting > > techniques and strategies. > >In fact he used the already ancient way of fighting of the Scots (guerilla >warfare) in an intelligent way. He also used the already existing >schiltron, >a pikeman's square, to very great effect in the few set battles he fought. >Pointed wooden staves, pah! They used 10 foot spears/pikes in formations >that fought with great discipline.Don't make me laugh: kilts and blue >faces!!! > > > The princess was only 11 years old at the time. > >Edward II and Isabelle married in 1308 in France (not England) when she was >16 and he 23 and already king but not crowned, 3 years after Wallace was >executed and 1 year after Edward I died. Isabella might have come over for >the wedding of her aunt Margaret to Edward I in 1299, but it is not certain >and I doubt it. She therefore most probably had not been to England before >her marriage and the whole story of her meeting Wallace and even making a >probable bastard is utter nonsense. > > > Anyway, despite thinking the real > > thing would have made a better story, > >Hear, hear! > > > Anyway, there were some parts I liked (the fact that the > > characters spoke numerous languages, for instance, which is rarely >addressed > > in medieval films; > >The royal family and most of the nobility spoke French and did not bother >to >speak English. Edward II is supposed to have talked English with his >subjects, another point in his favour (or disfavour). His son Edward III >was >fluent in English as well as French and Latin and a smatter of Dutch and >German. Wallace was a Lowlands gentleman of knight-status (he lived in a >manor house near Glasgow, not a hovel somewhere in the Highlands) and must >have spoken French as well as Scottish-English. He was definitely no >Highlander and it's doubtful that he spoke more than a few words of Gaelic. >As far as I know everybody spoke English in the movie although Mel's tried >to speak with a Scottish accent; it was laughable. > > > and the whole idea that being married might be important > > to anyone is sadly left out of most movies) > >I'm not sure what you mean by this: Edward's or Wallace's wedding? > > > but on the whole we both agree that it stunk. > >I could not agree more... > >Henk > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 21:54:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16437 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:54:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04106; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17719 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:09:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17711 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:09:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6JHQ0x0dAC (4229) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.eefb8ace.25491848@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:08:56 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: henk on braveheart To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com What he said. I was trying not to take too much space in my post, although I'm glad Henk did. Perhaps I'm guilty of the same Hollywood "dumbing down"? I think Edward would have made a much more interesting character if he were portrayed the way he really was -- it would certainly have been different from your average gay movie character! FYI, Henk, they did speak a couple of different languages -- Isabelle spoke French (of course, they all would have spoken French, but . . .), a priest spoke Latin, and Wallace said he spoke both. I think he spoke at least one of the two to the princess. My point was that the movie included any non-English at all, which is a step above most. As for marriage, I meant that I thought it was nice that Wallace wanted to marry his girlfriend and not just sleep with her, and that after she died it was important to him that she had been his wife. I'd just prefer to see a little more of that sentiment in movies. My husband just mentioned that Wallace did have a girlfriend whom he might have secretly married, but no one knows whether they were married or not, and she was actually killed protecting him. And he also said that all the battle scenes in the movie were like football teams charging at each other, which he can't stand, and that the real Wallace was famous for wearing a bright green tunic (there -- some historic costume in this post!). Oh, and "the Barns of Ayr is almost certainly mythical." He says Wallace was so fascinating that he could write a better script himself. Of course, maybe there WAS a better script than the one we saw . . . Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:19:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16454 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06702; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21723 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:35:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21718 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA07949 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004c01bf20f5$8905d380$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:35:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >If one is going to point out the differences between historical fact, and >fiction, why not ALSO point out the things in the film that really DID >happen! How else can you show more than a biased viewpoint? Well, it's usually assumed that unless someone points out otherwise, what happens in a historical movie is more or less true. >Wallace might not have been a highlander, but he did spend a great deal of >time there. He was a patriot for his country who stood up for what he >believed, and died for it as well. True enough, but "patriot for his country" seems to imply a Revolutionary War/modern ethos. Wallace was not standing up for all the poor oppressed peasant Scotsmen being oppressed by the nasty Englishmen; rather, he had much closer affinities for those of his own class (gentry, small to mid-sized landowners, the "knightly" class) in their aspirations, which often brought them into conflict with English landowners and the English crown. The movie alludes to some of the shifting political alliances to be found amongst the Scots nobles, who were mostly of Norman extraction with close ties and feuds with those "across the border." Wallace was part of this complex political landscape. He was drawn and quartered, and his >'parts' were indeed sent to the "four corners" of Scotland as a warning to >other Scots. Simon de Montfort was also chopped into bits and set around England. It's interesting to compare him with Wallace. I don't think I've ever seen Montfort called a "patriot," although you can't cross a bridge in the Midlands without running into him. Actually, speaking of things not too badly done in the movie, the women's costuming (the panne velour cotehardie notwithstanding) was better than I've seen in a number of movies. It was recognizable as 14th century, and the headdresses were nice. Too often the nifty headgear is ditched because someone decides it's fussy or "oppressive." Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16460 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06927; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20746 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:29:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.2.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20707 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p239.amax20.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.239]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11234 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:28:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3817C241.2D237272@flash.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:25:54 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? Thanks, --Charlene -- Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:20:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16464 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06986; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20618 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:28:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20569 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k574.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.174]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01743 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3817C1F8.5217@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:24:40 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 12:05 AM 10/08/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > Hi, Katharine--I have two Chinese books that have many > pictures of Chinese men in hats, inc. the one you described. If you > already have the info. you sought, I will turn them back in. If not, I > will sit down with the books and really delve. Please let me know. -- > Gra/inne PS And this, thanks to our Asian Languages Reference Librarian, > Phyllis Wang, who is a Super Lady!!! :-) > I'd be interested in this information, too, please. Or at least the names of the books? Susan F. -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:31:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16475 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:31:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08235; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23620 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:46:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23610 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:46:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6YWJa17057 (4233) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.858492b9.254920fd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:05 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/99 3:36:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, charlene@flash.net writes: << Poster: Charlene Charette Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? Thanks, --Charlene >> Charlene, I purchased mine from a friend, who bought it for the needlework documentation. She was laureled and passed it on to me. I have not been able to find it available from any of the regular book stores, but I have seen it from time to time appear at Ren Faire book sellers. I think however your best bet would be to search the out of print/ hard to find book finders on line. Before Stasya sold her book to me, I had to inter library loan it and I made coppies of several sections that I had immediate use for. I am sorry that I can't provide you with a deffinite place to go. Perhaps you could contact the publishers: WS Maney and Sons Ltd, Hudson Road, Leeds, Great Brittain ISBN 0901286206 I purchased mine for second hand for $100, but I wouldn't part with it for $500....Good luck. Charles Would you mind if I posted your request to other lists? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16479 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08431; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23781 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:47:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23772 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04286 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3817C721.DC5C050D@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:48:13 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it References: <199910280138.VAA02590@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Irene leNoir wrote: > and Cynthia wrote: > >...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on > >you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. > > While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have > to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning > towards a much harsher reaction. Oh, definitely. I meant as a backup to whatever the original authors are doing. Let the thieves know that the world knows, as well as the official method being pursued. cv -- The way to draw a girl, I somehow absorbed [as a child], was to draw a regular person, then add certain signifiers: long hair, a skirt, high heels, huge curling eyelashes. I didn't look like that, and there was something instinctively offensive to me about overgeneralizing women merely as a way to differentiate them from "regular" -- i.e. male -- people. The female is [drawn as] a male with accessories. -- Alison Bechdel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16483 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08548; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23990 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:49:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23979 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k574.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.174]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05874 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3817C6D6.603@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:45:26 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Japanese clothing References: <941032551.1724.395@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi maureen+ brown wrote: > > -Poster: "maureen+ brown" > > I have another question about Japanese clothing, this one *I think* is a > kimono with a kind of hunting sleeve. (An image of what I'm trying to make > can be seen here: > http://www.ualberta.ca/~aziesel/inuyasha/tank5.html; the red costume.) > > I haven't been able to find a source for this kimono; I've been able to find > a garment with those sleeves for hunting (kariginu? suikan?), but always > with a tunic type body rather than a kimono. It's supposed to be from 15th > century Japan, but it is a comic book so I have no way of knowing how > authentic it is (or whether the artist was going for that anyway). > You mean the "drawstring" sleeve? In books and a museum exhibit, I've only seen this on a jacket-type garment "karaginu" (not counting the court-style tunic) never a full-length kimono. I think the drawing is misleading (you almost never see bearclaw necklaces worn with kimonos either) and the jacket is tucked in the hakama hence the bunching (not fold, I think) If you want to see real ones in action, watch the sumo wresting on one of the sports channels. The referees wear the whole outfit. > The question I have is about the folded section in front above the belt; > what is this??? The only thing I've been able to come up with is from The > Book of Kimono; when it shows the section on putting a kimono on, they fold > up the "excess material" in front and fold it below the obi in a way that > looks similar to this pouchy thing. This is only for women and for modern kimonos. Not when they were wearing "battle dress". (Is that character female?? or male with long hair??) I'm wondering what the purple string across the chest is for? Well that's my take on it, anyway. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16489 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:42:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09308; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:58:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25401 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:58:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25394 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.28.165.142]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991028035742.MPOJ12296@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:57:42 +0000 Message-ID: <3817C9FC.7FD3A1E9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:58:52 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it References: <199910280138.VAA02590@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Irene leNoir wrote: > While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have > to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning > towards a much harsher reaction. > > I think perhaps people have missed the point that they're a business, and > they've been using the stolen material to promote their sales. > Admittedly, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that because of this > they've opened themselves right up to a copyright infringement suit which > could ask for money damages. I agree with you 100% Jessica. If it were my website that had been pirated, I know I'd be on the phone to my attorney. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:43:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16493 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:43:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09389; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25700 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:59:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25689 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991028035925.JYUB23900.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@C59303A> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:59:25 -0700 Message-ID: <001801bf20f8$d6f85380$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <3817C241.2D237272@flash.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:59:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" Amazon Dry goods, Green Duck, Amazon.com in Europe, And the publisher I think still has copies. Also try http://www.dealpilot.com/ they are pretty good about finding the used copies of about any book, use the ISBN to search, it is better than using the title or author name. The prices you will find are anywhere from 128.00 to 200 a copy. Good luck. Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlene Charette" To: "H-Costume List" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:25 PM Subject: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? > > Thanks, > --Charlene > > -- > Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16497 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09590; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25915 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f61.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA25901 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19646 invoked by uid 0); 28 Oct 1999 03:59:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19991028035955.19645.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.202.173.153 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:59:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.202.173.153] From: "Tammie L. Dupuis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:59:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" If you go through Amazon.uk.co, you can get a new copy of this book by credit card. It will run you about $150 if I remember correctly, Laurellen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:03:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16511 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:03:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11140; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28576 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:18:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28560 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-200.s200.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.200]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA10139 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004501bf20fb$8d737f20$c856accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199910280138.VAA02590@bajor.ici.net> <3817C9FC.7FD3A1E9@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:18:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Unfortnately, in the world of website design there is a lot of pirating. I have a friend who just quit her job with a small design firm over this very issue. The company was trying to make her steal from another website. She turned the issue to the state officials. Now, the IRS is involved too and other government agencies. This company, Nakia, that stole from our friends' websites, also designs and hosts websites for other businesses. Maybe that needs to be looked into. Funny, if you go to their link pages, you find links to editing and publishing materials. I have had people steal or directly link into my images before. When I write the "scary letter" to them, I generally find out that it is a kid or young adult who didn't know better. A business should know better than to pirate, especially if they are designing for other businesses. But unfortnatley, this is not the first time it has happened, and it won't be the last. I am happy that you all are standing up for the original authors. If more people did this, maybe it wouldn't occur as often. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16535 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12766; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01160 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:35:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01153 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-39.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FKA0009PPZVI9@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:33:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:32:48 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: RE: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3817D1F0.A2047C16@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910280206.UAA08227@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >...Marc Carlson's shoe site is also plagarized on their website. Really. Thank you. I'll take a look at it. (You know, I don't ask for a lot to keep me content) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:21:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16539 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12923; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01359 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:37:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01353 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:37:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6DUR51tkV_ (4328) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.484b2c1f.25492cd2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:36:34 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com Go to Green Duck Designs. They carry it. $180 (US). My SO bought mine there three years ago as a Yule gift. The book is worth every penny! www.greenduck.com (No affiliation, yadda-yadda) ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:26:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16543 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:26:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13457; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02196 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:42:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02189 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:42:31 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EPY8A6BL; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:41:20 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:36:07 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Message-ID: <19991027.234145.-433945.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Was Wallace sent to the four corners of Scotland, or was he sent about England? He was killed at Smithfield in London (actually just outside the city gates at the time) and I can't see them sending his bits back to the hinterlands of Scotland. As a matter of fact there is a great, big bronze marker on one of the walls of St. Barts Hospital commemorating his execution. When I was there last February, there were several oldish bouquets of flowers beneath it. I don't remember seeing any flowers left on Edward's tomb......... Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16550 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:30:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13708; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:45:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02546 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-39.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FKA000FOQGZI9@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:43:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:43:04 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: RE: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it] To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3817D458.4021684A@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910280206.UAA08227@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > > Marc Carlson's shoe site is also plagarized on their website... Ok, I checked. In all fairness, they just directly link to that part of my web site, so I can't complain. Thank you for the concern though. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 00:05:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16578 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15459; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06439 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:19:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06433 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial87.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.87]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA02145 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991027222114.007bace0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:21:14 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices In-Reply-To: <3815FCF0.E19160ED@pcs.k12.mi.us> References: <3.0.5.32.19991022132958.0079db10@antir.com> <3.0.5.32.19991022193605.00793c30@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 07:11 PM 26/10/99 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: Jean Zerby > >What I've usually seen with this type of bodice is 3 pieces in the front and 2 >in the back. The side pieces go from the side to 1/3 of the chest, the middle >pieces from mid breast to mid breast. ( Sorry for the graphic pic but it's the >best explanation I have) This allows you to make adjustments without darts. >Check the visual hist of coustume series and Milla Davenport for period pics. >!9th cent redrawings are often not shaped right and are romanticised. Hope >this helps > >Raella ahh... I will do that! Thanks very much for the idea on cutting the pattern pieces. I'll have to try it this weekend :] oh, and would the 3 front pieces be like 'princess' seams? or would they not curve quite that much... Probably not, eh? Kris (who can't believe she just thought & typed an "eh"... yeesh..) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 00:19:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16588 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16364; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07954 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:34:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07948 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial87.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.87]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA02241 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991027223622.007d6740@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:36:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices In-Reply-To: <199910272008.OAA27127@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 02:08 PM 27/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >>http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE34AX.HTML > >*that* lady is french so it's not a good example either... *laughing* oops. I didn't notice that one :] But I must say that it does have the bodice shape I was after.. what I see in these dratted photocopies here before me :] >maybe it was only stiffened over the tummy? if it was not or only >lightly=20 stiffened, you'd get horizontal creases which are not in >evidence in any=20 painting i know. could be the artists left them out >because they didn't=20 look good... I like to think that some of the people from that time period were as perfectionistic as I, and would have figured out some way to get rid of those awful wrinkles.. *grin* I *do* think, however (from looking closer at some copies) that there could be a curved centre-front seam. That would take care of everything. The only problem is fitting it right.. hmm.. there are many points to think about now, when I go to fiz the pattern :] Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 00:30:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16596 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16891; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09108 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA09091 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Wed Oct 27 22:45:43 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:45:43 -0800 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.175 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" I always thought he looked more like a cross between Ciaran Hinds and Kevin Spacey. They couldn't have picked a better person to play a young Edward Rochester if you are basing what he looks like on the A&E version with Ciaran hinds and Samantha Morton. I love historical fiction in both books and movies yet I've never seen Othello, seems everytime I go to the movie store it's checked out...along with Branaigh's Hamlet. I finally was able to catch that one on channel 3 a few months ago (tnt I think it is). I'm gonna have to go to another video store I think, LOL must be someone checked those two out and din't bring them back. That happens alot here, it's a college town, the library loses alot of books too. Oh well. *smile* --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 01:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16638 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:25:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19529; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14526 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:40:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14515 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA01948 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:10:48 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01297; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:17:41 +0930 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:17:34 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Silk Q Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant When does Dupionni or Shantung (are they the same?) silk first appear? Is it just a part of our modern fascination with slubby things? I understand that during most periods people would have wanted fine, smooth-looking fabrics as a sign of quality. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 02:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02629 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:25:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21755; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19838 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:40:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19830 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.180] (sdts11-145.znet.net [207.167.66.145]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id AAA15534 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:40:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991027223622.007d6740@antir.com> References: <199910272008.OAA27127@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:33:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >I *do* think, however (from looking closer at some copies) that there could >be a curved centre-front seam. That would take care of everything. The only >problem is fitting it right.. It is a curved front center seam. I've NEVER seen a 3 piece bodice front in early 16th c German costuming and I've looked a LOTS of sources and in person paintings. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 03:31:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20290 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25005; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA25547 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:47:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25542 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JHNWMUKAU8001PB8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:52:18 BST Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.56.3]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JHNWMS4TCC001LMT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:52:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 28 Oct 99 09:45:29 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44) ; 28 Oct 99 09:45:12 GMT0BST Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; 28 Oct 99 09:45:08 GMT0BST Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:45:08 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Re: Off Topic In-reply-to: <199910272013.OAA28454@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <7C11C6177BE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > >Oh, Ninni, does this mean you aren't going to come @round the > >silk mill and museum with me when I come to Stockholm in > >November...? >melodramatic manner>.... > > > >Teddy > >(Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > >air and darkness, apparently!) > > Of course I will! I thought I were paying you a > compliment. After all you *are* an evil bunny, aren't you? muttering "You can't even trust people's signatures anymore, what is > the world coming to"> > > /Ninni Sorry Ninni, I just couldn't resist the urge to overdramatize Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 03:55:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20332 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:55:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25804; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27647 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:11:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27636 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:11:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.137] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11glaR-000262-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:11:12 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991026042826.00b2dd90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:29:17 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: German Ren Bodices In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB50D@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows but it would be better if you >weren't working out of Braun & Schneider. There are so many other, not to >mention better, sources for just about anything. Like the places Braun and Schneider got their stuff from, etc. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 07:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20580 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04319; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10301 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:37:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10295 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-232.ici.net [207.180.41.232]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15191 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910281237.IAA15191@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Q Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:37:31 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id GAA10297 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir >When does Dupionni or Shantung (are they the same?) silk first appear? Well, I can't say when they first appear. But I can say they aren't the same (at least not modernly). Shantung is a fabric of any fiber that has a slubby weft. Dupioni is a silk fabric woven from a yarn reeled from a twin cocoon. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 07:42:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20593 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05646; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12683 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:57:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12675 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:57:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GGJa11029 (302) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.659433f0.2549a232@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:57:22 EDT Subject: H-COST: william wallace again To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com This is getting way OT, but I don't think I'd agree that Wallace wasn't a patriot. He wasn't an American-style patriot, by any means. But he has been called one of the first modern sort of patriots by some historians, because he really was all for Scotland being independent of England, not just for this or that family being in charge. Anyway, I believe that the SCOTS certainly think so, and they have a long history of wanting independence. William Wallace was very much in evidence this year when the Scots finally got their own parliament. They haven't had one in 300 years and they opened this one as if the last one had happened a week ago. A friend of mine was in Edinburgh at the time, and when she got back we marveled over the way the Scots still care about things that happend hundreds of years ago as if they had happened yesterday. It's a European kind of attitude that we Americans think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't get it. It's one of those qualities that you give up to become and American. Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 08:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20649 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09400; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19408 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:42:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19397 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:42:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SRYa06991 (4182) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3d51b249.2549ac94@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:41:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: william wallace again To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/1999 9:00:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << It's a European kind of attitude that we Americans think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't get it. >> Hmmmmm...must be why there so many Civil War reenactors. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 08:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20658 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09730; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20070 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:45:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20062 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:45:52 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6RYFa03805 (4320) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b0f8ad92.2549ad6c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:45:16 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses whoindulge in it] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 10/27/99 9:40:42 PM Central Daylight Time, cjcannon@greymists.com writes: > I missed the > original post...could someone please forward it to me. I want to have a > clue...I really do about what everyone is talking about :-) I, too, missed out. But I would love to be involved in the solution. Could someone email me the original post? Thx! DaniG DRGurley@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 08:38:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20674 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:38:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10563; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21383 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:53:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21372 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05072 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:53:00 -0400 Message-ID: <3818553D.D94EFC4D@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:54:58 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Q References: <199910281237.IAA15191@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Irene leNoir wrote: > Shantung is a fabric of any fiber that has a slubby weft. > > Dupioni is a silk fabric woven from a yarn reeled from a twin cocoon. Looks like different sources will define it differently. The source I used for my silk page said that the slubbed yarn has identical provenance, but Shantung is silk with slubs in one direction (as Irene said), and Dupioni is silk with slubs in two directions. cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 09:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20796 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20313; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03030 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:47:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03022 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991028144649.HJFC29876.ewey.excite.com@flash.excite.com> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:46:49 -0700 From: "maureen+ brown" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese clothing Message-Id: <941122009.7446.896@excite.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:46:49 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.138.159.193 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "maureen+ brown" Ok, I'm guessing now that the outfit *isn't* authentic and I shouldn't look for an explanation of the bunching in historical clothing. I will look at sumo wrestling; do the referees' clothes look just like this garment? The character is male but a demon and the necklace is supposed to be a magical/holy thing, so the character *wouldn't* normally wear it (and in the story, would very much like to get rid of it ^_^). I was assuming the purple string was for tying up the bunchy stuff (whatever it is). I did see a later garment (hitare) with a kimono opening and the drawstring sleeves with some kind of string around the neck opening, but the string isn't used to tye anything up, and the kimono lies flat, rather than bunching. Anyway, thanks for your help and if anything else occurs to you, please let me know. --Maureen (An image of what I'm trying to make > > can be seen here: > > http://www.ualberta.ca/~aziesel/inuyasha/tank5.html; the red costume.) On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:45:26 -0700, Susan Fatemi wrote: > You mean the "drawstring" sleeve? In books and a museum exhibit, > I've only seen this on a jacket-type garment "karaginu" (not counting > the court-style tunic) never a full-length kimono. I think the > drawing is misleading (you almost never see bearclaw necklaces worn > with kimonos either) and the jacket is tucked in the hakama hence > the bunching (not fold, I think) > > If you want to see real ones in action, watch the sumo wresting > on one of the sports channels. The referees wear the whole > outfit. > > > The question I have is about the folded section in front above the belt; > > what is this??? The only thing I've been able to come up with is from The > > Book of Kimono; when it shows the section on putting a kimono on, they fold > > up the "excess material" in front and fold it below the obi in a way that > > looks similar to this pouchy thing. > > This is only for women and for modern kimonos. Not when they > were wearing "battle dress". (Is that character female?? or male > with long hair??) > > I'm wondering what the purple string across the chest is for? > > Well that's my take on it, anyway. > > Susan F. > -- > Oh Noh! Kimonos! > susanf@netwiz.net > http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:10:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20899 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:10:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27461; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13995 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:25:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13983; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:25:32 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EP2C2Z8B; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:23:31 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:23:57 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: william wallace again Message-ID: <19991028.102405.-433945.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-53 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I think that as a general rule, many Americans don't get a personal sense of history because no one tries to give them one. American schools treat the majority of history as something that happened to someone else somewhere else, not as something that has relevancy to them. I know many people who are passionate about history (okay, I have a skewed population sample ;-) ), and are very emotionally involved, and every summer at the RenFaire (imperfect tho it is) we give Americans a sense that history can be alive and interesting. And 20-25 thousand people coming each day has got to say something about Americans wanting to be involved in history. Do people in other parts of the US, East Coast or Southwest, where at least in theory more history happened, find that there is more personal involvement with history? Karen On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:57:22 EDT Gaelscot@aol.com writes: > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > This is getting way OT, but I don't think I'd agree that Wallace > wasn't a > patriot. He wasn't an American-style patriot, by any means. But he > has been > called one of the first modern sort of patriots by some historians, > because > he really was all for Scotland being independent of England, not > just for > this or that family being in charge. Anyway, I believe that the > SCOTS > certainly think so, and they have a long history of wanting > independence. > William Wallace was very much in evidence this year when the Scots > finally > got their own parliament. They haven't had one in 300 years and they > opened > this one as if the last one had happened a week ago. A friend of > mine was in > Edinburgh at the time, and when she got back we marveled over the > way the > Scots still care about things that happend hundreds of years ago as > if they > had happened yesterday. It's a European kind of attitude that we > Americans > think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't > get it. > It's one of those qualities that you give up to become and American. > > Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:11:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20903 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:11:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27528; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14178 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:26:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14159 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05233 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:25:11 -0400 Message-ID: <38186AD8.3AE826BE@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:27:13 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Japanese clothing References: <941122009.7446.896@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > I was assuming the > purple string was for tying up the bunchy stuff (whatever it is). I am not an expert on asian costume, but my interpretation of the "purple string" is that it is edge-piping on the edge of the garment where it closes over the chest, with a matching tie, fastened in a bow -- one on the edge of the garment and one mid-chest, so that when tied, they overlap. cv -- The way to draw a girl, I somehow absorbed [as a child], was to draw a regular person, then add certain signifiers: long hair, a skirt, high heels, huge curling eyelashes. I didn't look like that, and there was something instinctively offensive to me about overgeneralizing women merely as a way to differentiate them from "regular" -- i.e. male -- people. The female is [drawn as] a male with accessories. -- Alison Bechdel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20941 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:31:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01035; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20125 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:46:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20099 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem109.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.109] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11grkM-0001wo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:45:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bf215b$91c5e7b0$6d065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <0.8b9f6abe.25478c28@aol.com> <008b01bf209a$73ac7e40$afd5f1c3@henk> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:45:28 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" From: Henk 't Jong - tScapreel > >" That's just my handicap: I know too much of medieval history and customs " A truly terrible and awesome burden; sometimes the rest of us tend to forget just how lucky we are in our ignorance and simple enjoyments; LD Mundy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:34:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20952 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01651; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21315 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:48:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from griffon.mwsc.edu (griffon.mwsc.edu [150.200.1.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21302 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [150.200.70.53] (findlay.commstud.mwsc.edu [150.200.70.53]) by griffon.mwsc.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09718 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:48:42 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.858492b9.254920fd@aol.com> References: <0.858492b9.254920fd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:44:13 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Walter Robin Findlay Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Walter Robin Findlay I got mine from amozon.com england not the american one >-Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/28/99 3:36:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, charlene@flash.net >writes: > ><< Poster: Charlene Charette > > Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? > > Thanks, > --Charlene >> > > >Charlene, > > I purchased mine from a friend, who bought it for the needlework >documentation. She was laureled and passed it on to me. I have not been >able to find it available from any of the regular book stores, but I have >seen it from time to time appear at Ren Faire book sellers. I think however >your best bet would be to search the out of print/ hard to find book finders >on line. Before Stasya sold her book to me, I had to inter library loan it >and I made coppies of several sections that I had immediate use for. I am >sorry that I can't provide you with a deffinite place to go. Perhaps you >could contact the publishers: > >WS Maney and Sons Ltd, Hudson Road, Leeds, Great Brittain >ISBN 0901286206 > >I purchased mine for second hand for $100, but I wouldn't part with it for >$500....Good luck. > >Charles > >Would you mind if I posted your request to other lists? THANK YOU W. ROBIN FINDLAY "Is that all there is?".................Miss Peggy Lee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:02:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21011 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:02:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06023; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:18:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29191 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:18:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29184 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19551 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <381877CE.6199AEA2@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:20:30 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd References: <0.858492b9.254920fd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I think however > your best bet would be to search the out of print/ hard to find book finders > on line. Before Stasya sold her book to me, I had to inter library loan it > and I made coppies of several sections that I had immediate use for. I am > sorry that I can't provide you with a deffinite place to go. Perhaps you > could contact the publishers: This book was re-published last year and is widely available as many have said. Ain't it grand!? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:06:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21019 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:06:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06454; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29822 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:20:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29812 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-21.s21.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.21]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02334 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027101bf2160$c3357220$15f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19991028.102405.-433945.1.seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: william wallace again Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:23:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > Do people in other parts of the US, East Coast or Southwest, where at > least in theory more history happened, find that there is more personal > involvement with history? I didn't care much about history until I moved to Richmond, VA. History is a very active part of our area. There is something about touching or standing in area where a historic event occured that moves people. It also takes the right person to guide and explain what happened at a historic site. I will never forget the first time I went to the Petersburg Battlefield and saw the Crater and the tunnel. On that same day, an infantry crew ran a cannon on a wagon across a field and then fired it. Movies or history books do not stir that kind of excitement but seeing real people recreating an event does. I have spent the last two months out shooting photographs of historic reenactments and I have not left the Richmond area yet. Sometimes, so many events are going on that I have had to pick and choice which one I wanted to go to most. It has been a blast. I have sat down and talked with the people about why they love the period and why they choose to represent it. Believe me, I have learned more about history form these people who have made it their passion, than ever learning from a book. When people are passing through our area, we always stop and take them on a "tour" (as we call it) in whatever area of history they are interested in. My personal favorite is what I call the Petersburg Ghost Tour and Hollywood Cemetry. Last week, a cousin came in town who was interested in the ACW, so we did the Historical Society, Lee's Encampment, Monument Ave., White House of the Confederacy and Museum. I love taking people around the historic sites. One of our cousins really likes Stuart. She was so excited when she saw his statue on Monument Ave., and just cryed when she saw his hat with the feather in the Museum of the Confederacy. She couldn't believe that she was actually seeing it. That's what makes these "tours" so much fun, when they can see and touch history. When my husband went to Egypt, I told him, "I won't believe those pyrimads are really there until you bring me back a picture with you in front of them." When he got home, he handed me a picture of himself in front of the pyrimads. I told him, "Now I believe they are there!" Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21027 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:09:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06890; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00937 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flashmail.flashmail.net (IDENT:nobody@flashmail.magicnet.net [204.96.116.160]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00917 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:24:09 -0600 (MDT) From: psychopixi@flashmail.net Received: (from nobody@localhost) by flashmail.flashmail.net (8.8.5/8.8.7) id MAA00767; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:39:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:39:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199910281639.MAA00767@flashmail.flashmail.net> X-Authentication-Warning: flashmail.flashmail.net: nobody set sender to psychopixi@flashmail.net using -f To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Movies X-Mailer: Flashmail, Inc. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: psychopixi@flashmail.net "m b" wrote: "If one is going to point out the differences between historical fact, and fiction, why not ALSO point out the things in the film that really DID happen! How else can you show more than a biased viewpoint? Hear hear! I applaud your fairness. Thank you! (lurk mode OFF) First, let me preface this message with the caveat that my mail provider has been losing approximately every other message for the last few days, so if I repeat anything already covered, please forgive me. Also, please forgive the OT nature of this string. The persons who subscribe to this list are on average a well-educated, bunch who share among other things, a penchant for history. The **average** movie goer is not. I am well aware of the flaws in Braveheart, be they in historical accuracy or in costuming, or whatever. It is extremely easy to sit back and pick apart someone else's work. It is much harder to create (as most of you well know!). Flaws aside, Braveheart acquainted millions of people with a time period that they previoously were well nigh completely ignorant of. It led many people to look further into that and other time periods, and for this, I give it extreme kudos. I am completely behind sharing information with others. What Mel and his people did was bring a little known legend to life. They told a rocking good story. (and at least they TRIED to do the accents) (Henk- how good is your Scottish accent?) Please remember that it was a story, pure entertainment. Years before it was released I heard about it and marveled that someone had the courage to gamble so much money and effort on a movie that would on the surface have such limited appeal, but I couldn't wait to see it. When it came out I dragged myself and my freshly squeezed son to it (before I was supposed to be allowed out of the house), I whooped, laughed, and yes, cried. It was thoroughly entertaining. For the first time I could clearly see what I had only read about in puzzlement, how men and horses were tumbled and thrown far behind the lines of the other side when the two armies met. When I joined the SCA, I did so seeking the feelings that watching the battle scenes of that movie made me feel. I shivered and cringed and ! ! bounced up and down in my seat. If other people felt that way- great! They must have, else it would not have garnered the acclaim and money that it has. All flaws aside, the movie brought a little knowledge to a lot of people. It also entertained them. Before snarking about it, look at other movies that are out and compare. I'd take a flawed historical piece over Die Hard, Scream, etc. any day. Why not cut people a little slack? Well, that's my own two cents... Carry on (lurk mode ON) Sigrid Knowing others is intelligence: knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:15:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21040 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:15:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07967; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02730 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:30:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02720 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:30:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Pandoorah@aol.com Received: from Pandoorah@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GKD6xho2_ (4562) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c4757cba.2549d3ea@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:29:30 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com > but it would be better if you >weren't working out of Braun & Schneider. There are so many other, not to >mention better, sources for just about anything. Personally, I like Braun & Schneider... I think they are great to flip through when looking for an idea... Once I get one, I go to secondary sources (art books and the like) to find what it really looked like, and try to decide is what I see is what I want. Not to mention, is is great when trying to help people who don't know anything about costumes/time periods get a basic understanding. Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:37:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21051 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:37:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11651; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08676 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:51:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08663 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991028165133.KSWS16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:51:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:49:53 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991028165133.KSWS16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have very strong feeling about the subject, but I mostly know it from a book publishing standpoint. Fran Grimble is the person I defer to in these matters. However..... if there is copyright infringement then giving *credit* is not enough. These people should get it off their website - i.e. cease and desist. It is a legal matter and the web is too new for me to know that much about it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Susannah Eanes" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it >Date: Wed, Oct 27, 1999, 7:24 PM > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > > >Fran? Rob Shep? What say you on this subject? >As people in the book business, I know I have seen posts from one or both of >you on copyright infringement & the law. Your 2c would be interesting in >this case. > >Susannah > > > > >> > and Cynthia wrote: >> > >...and tell us if you think it would be useful for us to post "shame on >> > >you for stealing copyright material" notes (polite ones) to them. >> > >> > While I agree some action like this should be taken at a minimum, I have >> > to admit that if it were my work that they'd stolen, I'd be leaning >> > towards a much harsher reaction. >> > >> > I think perhaps people have missed the point that they're a business, >>and >> > they've been using the stolen material to promote their sales. >> > Admittedly, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that because of this >> > they've opened themselves right up to a copyright infringement suit >>which >> > could ask for money damages. >> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 12:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21099 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15665; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16470 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:18:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16441 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:10:30 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB519@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: German Ren Bodices Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:10:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I'm not sure B&S gives anyone the basic understanding you want them to have, since the lines are often wrong, or moved, or missing, and dates and places are misattributed. It's all in one place, sure, but that just makes it easier to toss in the trash. Why not start with those art books to begin with? Just my tuppence ha'penny MaggiRos secaram@mainsaver.com A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net Leap, and the net will appear. --Orson Wells > -----Original Message----- > From: Pandoorah@aol.com [SMTP:Pandoorah@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 5:30 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: German Ren Bodices > > > -Poster: Pandoorah@aol.com > > > but it would be better if you > >weren't working out of Braun & Schneider. There are so many other, not > to > >mention better, sources for just about anything. > > > Personally, I like Braun & Schneider... I think they are great to flip > through when looking for an idea... Once I get one, I go to secondary > sources (art books and the like) to find what it really looked like, and > try > to decide is what I see is what I want. Not to mention, is is great when > trying to help people who don't know anything about costumes/time periods > get > a basic understanding. > > Shannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 12:48:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21184 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22697; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27640 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:02:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27624 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA27089 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38188EB4.E5198638@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:58:12 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it References: <19991028165133.KSWS16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press R.L. Shep wrote: > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I have very strong feeling about the subject, but I mostly know it from a > book publishing standpoint. > Fran Grimble is the person I defer to in these matters. I mostly know it from a print publishing standpoint too, and I'm not a lawyer. I'd recommend that the people whose copyright was violated (a) verify whether the site linked to or copied their pages and then (b) consult a lawyer. At least at the beginning, they might want to get together and consult the same lawyer to save time and money. In the US, for a lawyer to actually sue for you, he/she has to be located either in the state where you do business or the state where the person you are suing does business. A branch or sales office of either party can serve, so what is really interesting to me is how this applies to the net, which is everywhere. I just don't know. In my mind there are some uses of links that ought to be illegal without the permission of the owners of the pages, but this is where you get into the new, fuzzy area of web copyright. On the other hand, just copying someone's material (unless the copyright has expired) and reprinting it without their permission, anywhere, is already clearly illegal. I should add that some book and magazine designs can be copyrighted (the more unique, the more likely) and this probably includes web designs too. I have seen my material appear under other people's names more than once and it is indeed a very unpleasant experience. Anyway, as I see it, in this case there are three courses of action: (a) Tell the person to take the material off their web site right away or you'll take legal action (b) Tell the person to take it off their web site right away _and_ you want some money paid to you for its past use and for how its use/sale by you has been diminished by their illicit use or (c) Tell them you're very angry but you understand this might have been a mistake on their part. And since they find your material so very useful they can continue using it--as long as they not only put your name and copyright info on it, but pay you money. Because a web site can exist an indefinite amount of time in any given form, if you think they will use the material for a long time you might want to make them pay a monthly payment, or whatever, instead of a lump sum. Although you should also be paid for the length of time they've _already_ used your material. Option (a) is probably the easiest and cheapest to pursue for you to pursue, because it costs them only a few minutes and no money at all to pull your material off their site. I might add that if you want to do much more than that, it probably should be with the help of a lawyer. Lawyers think you ought to consult them right away, and if you take a lot of action before you've come to them you'll just make things more complicated and mess them up. Which in many cases is probably true. However, doing research on your own--such as finding out how long the material has been on the site--will save you some money. Lawyers bill by the hour (it's also unwise to spend the hourly time telling them how upset you are). > However..... if there is copyright infringement then giving *credit* is not > enough. This is absolutely true. The legal issue is not credit, it's the right of the copyright owner to control the use of his/her work and derive payment from it if he/she wishes. Academic "credit" (telling the world where you got your _information_) is an entirely different issue from copyright. It is not legal to use someone's text or illustrations without their permission even if you give them full credit. Incidentally, it is a very good idea to put your name and copyright notice on all the sections of your web site, not just your index page. This won't stop people whose intent is to copy your work. But if someone just links to a subpage, your name will at least be right there to avoid confusing readers about whose site they are reading right now. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 12:54:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21190 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23819; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29397 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:08:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29385 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA15541 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38189194.CF37E6EC@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:10:28 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it--again References: <19991028165133.KSWS16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press BTW, if anyone is planning to take legal action regarding this web site, I'd recommend downloading and saving a copy of it as it is right now with the copyright violations. If the person hears complaints (and who knows, they might even be on this mailing list) and removes the material, and you go back and it's not there and they say, "Huh? What blackwork page?" you have a problem. There is probably a legal way to get their ISP to pull an old backup from their server but that would be harder. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:06:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21222 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:06:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25813; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02366 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:19:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02353 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991028181950.LQVO16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:19:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:23:30 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and links From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991028181950.LQVO16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have seen some mention of *links* not being useable without permission. I would like clarification. I have always thought it was OK to put a link in for another site - if it was clear that it was just that i.e. another site. When I had my own website I had links to other sites and gave reviews of those sites so that people could decide if they wanted to go see for themselves. We are considering reviving this practice By the same token I find people on this list putting a link into their messages all the time so that other people can go to a site in question. In my mind it is the same as saying *read X book*. Any comments? ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Lavolta Press >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it >Date: Thu, Oct 28, 1999, 10:58 AM > > >-Poster: Lavolta Press > > > >R.L. Shep wrote: > >> -Poster: "R.L. Shep" >> >> I have very strong feeling about the subject, but I mostly know it from a >> book publishing standpoint. >> Fran Grimble is the person I defer to in these matters. > >I mostly know it from a print publishing standpoint too, and I'm not a lawyer. >I'd recommend that the people whose copyright was violated (a) verify whether >the site linked to or copied their pages and then (b) consult a lawyer. At >least at the beginning, they might want to get together and consult the same >lawyer to save time and money. In the US, for a lawyer to actually sue for >you, he/she has to be located either in the state where you do business or the >state where the person you are suing does business. A branch or sales office >of either party can serve, so what is really interesting to me is how this >applies to the net, which is everywhere. I just don't know. > >In my mind there are some uses of links that ought to be illegal without the >permission of the owners of the pages, but this is where you get into the new, >fuzzy area of web copyright. On the other hand, just copying someone's >material (unless the copyright has expired) and reprinting it without their >permission, anywhere, is already clearly illegal. I should add that some book >and magazine designs can be copyrighted (the more unique, the more likely) and >this probably includes web designs too. > >I have seen my material appear under other people's names more than once and it >is indeed a very unpleasant experience. Anyway, as I see it, in this case >there are three courses of action: (a) Tell the person to take the material >off their web site right away or you'll take legal action (b) Tell the person >to take it off their web site right away _and_ you want some money paid to you >for its past use and for how its use/sale by you has been diminished by their >illicit use or (c) Tell them you're very angry but you understand this might >have been a mistake on their part. And since they find your material so very >useful they can continue using it--as long as they not only put your name and >copyright info on it, but pay you money. Because a web site can exist an >indefinite amount of time in any given form, if you think they will use the >material for a long time you might want to make them pay a monthly payment, or >whatever, instead of a lump sum. Although you should also be paid for the >length of time they've _already_ used your material. > >Option (a) is probably the easiest and cheapest to pursue for you to pursue, >because it costs them only a few minutes and no money at all to pull your >material off their site. I might add that if you want to do much more than >that, it probably should be with the help of a lawyer. > >Lawyers think you ought to consult them right away, and if you take a lot of >action before you've come to them you'll just make things more complicated and >mess them up. Which in many cases is probably true. However, doing research on >your own--such as finding out how long the material has been on the site--will >save you some money. Lawyers bill by the hour (it's also unwise to spend the >hourly time telling them how upset you are). > > >> However..... if there is copyright infringement then giving *credit* is not >> enough. > >This is absolutely true. The legal issue is not credit, it's the right of the >copyright owner to control the use of his/her work and derive payment from it >if he/she wishes. Academic "credit" (telling the world where you got your >_information_) is an entirely different issue from copyright. It is not legal >to use someone's text or illustrations without their permission even if you >give them full credit. > >Incidentally, it is a very good idea to put your name and copyright notice on >all the sections of your web site, not just your index page. This won't stop >people whose intent is to copy your work. But if someone just links to a >subpage, your name will at least be right there to avoid confusing readers >about whose site they are reading right now. > >Fran Grimble > >--------------------------------------------- >Visit our web pages! >Books on historic costume and vintage clothes >http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm >Historic and vintage dance >http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:19:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21241 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:19:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27787; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05637 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:34:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05628 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA24774 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991028143816.006b2cf0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:38:16 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries In-Reply-To: <0.3d51b249.2549ac94@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" ><< It's a European kind of attitude that we Americans >> think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't get it. >Hmmmmm...must be why there so many Civil War reenactors. --------------------------------------------------------- My great-grandfather fought in the Civil War (American). That is still relatively recent history, only 3 generations away. I believe individuals in many "old world" countries do have an extended memory of history that is alien to the average American. It may be a function of different ethnic groups feeling their American history began when their group or family arrived from 1492 on (excluding native Americans). Also several million Americans had their history almost obliterated due to enslavement and separation from Africa. In the US, emigration, nuclear families, high rates of mobility to follow jobs, and a low level of concern about attachment to "place" reinforce this, IMHO. (Go west, young man!) Its not the same as being in Egypt, for example. I remember trying to visit a 16th century merchant's house (museum) in Cairo. The locals thought that was way too modern to bother visiting. "Real" historic sites were counted in the thousands, not hundreds, of years. It is different there. During the 1970's, I tried to explain how Shi'ites are VERY affected by events that took place before 700 A.D. and how it drove the Iranian revolution. I'd get blank stares from students. They couldn't comprehend anyone caring about anything longer than 15 years. IMHO the rapid increase in US re-enactment is helping to counter that false "history-less" trend. [I once asked a student in what decade the War of 1812 took place. He thought it was a trick question and said 1860. Sigh.) end of rambling. --------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:27:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21251 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:27:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29271; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07549 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mcn.org (mail.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07533 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from timbray (ha-1o-pw-p4-m21.mcn.org [209.209.31.105]) by mail.mcn.org (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20324 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028110908.0069e574@mail.mcn.org> X-Sender: keegan@mail.mcn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:09:08 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Catherine Keegan Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: henk on braveheart In-Reply-To: <0.eefb8ace.25491848@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Catherine Keegan >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com >snip< He says Wallace was so fascinating that he >could write a better script himself. Of course, maybe there WAS a better >script than the one we saw . . . I for one cannot understand why they have never done a movie about The Bruce. The real story reads like a movie script, to me anyway - it even has plenty of "love interest" so you wouldn't have to make it up like Isabella in Braveheart. Tim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21255 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:27:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29274; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07556 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mcn.org (mail.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07511 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from timbray (ha-1o-pw-p4-m21.mcn.org [209.209.31.105]) by mail.mcn.org (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20316 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028110623.006a5718@mail.mcn.org> X-Sender: keegan@mail.mcn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:06:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Catherine Keegan Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart In-Reply-To: <008b01bf209a$73ac7e40$afd5f1c3@henk> References: <0.8b9f6abe.25478c28@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Catherine Keegan Tim Bray, posting from Catherine's account: Braveheart was a great movie. It was a lousy documentary, but that's not what it was supposed to be. Why does anyone who understands history always expect that every historical movie will be a documentary? The five deadly words are found at the opening credits: "Based on a true story." That means someone took the story, kept a couple of the names and maybe a tiny piece of the real setting, and made the rest up according to the Hollywood formulas. So what? It's entertainment, not education. Such criticism should be reserved for actual documentaries or those movies that do purport to show the "real story." Part of the entertainment of watching Braveheart and other "based on a true story" movies, for me at least, is laughing at the costumes, manners, and other goofy inventions the H'wood types stick in! On the other hand, there are the rare occasions when they got more right than wrong - "Last of the Mohicans" for example. Just a contrarian view! Tim Bray > >-Poster: "Henk 't Jong - tScapreel" > >Hi, > >Gail wrote: >> I am interested to hear so many people's opinions of "Braveheart," because >it >> was such a popular film. Here is my experience with it: My husband and I >saw >> it in the theater and really liked it. In fact, we raved about it. Then we >> checked out the real history (we have a strange habit of doing that . . .) >> and found, as usual with a historical film, that it was much more >> interesting. > >That's just my handicap: I know too much of medieval history and customs to >be able to take the nonsense Hollywood shows. They don't have the knowledge >(I mean writers, art directors, costumers, setdesigners and finally >directors) to make a good product which is a good story as well as a >spectacular film. The real histories are often much more interesting than >what Hollywood makes of them, because movies, according to the powers that >be, have to underwrite a kind of cliche vision of historiy and storytelling. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:27:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21259 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:27:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29270; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07557 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mcn.org (mail.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07546 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from timbray (ha-1o-pw-p4-m21.mcn.org [209.209.31.105]) by mail.mcn.org (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20334 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028113219.0069c220@mail.mcn.org> X-Sender: keegan@mail.mcn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:32:19 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Catherine Keegan Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart In-Reply-To: <004c01bf20f5$8905d380$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Catherine Keegan >-Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" >Well, it's usually assumed that unless someone points out otherwise, what >happens in a historical movie is more or less true. Good heavens, where did that assumption come from? Certainly not borne out by analysis of historical movies, I think... ;-> >True enough, but "patriot for his country" seems to imply a Revolutionary >War/modern ethos. Wallace was not standing up for all the poor oppressed >peasant Scotsmen being oppressed by the nasty Englishmen; rather, he had >much closer affinities for those of his own class (gentry, small to >mid-sized landowners, the "knightly" class) in their aspirations, which >often brought them into conflict with English landowners and the English >crown. Hmmm... I am not convinced that is all that much different from the American Rev. War situation. Much of the knightly class did not support Wallace, and the nobility was divided, as you note. But the rhetoric used by those at the time makes it pretty clear that the fight was indeed nationalistic and that Wallace's goal was to free Scotland from English dominion. In fact, the single most distinguishing characteristic of his rebellion was the purity of its motive... as opposed to, say, Robert the Bruce. > >Simon de Montfort was also chopped into bits and set around England. It's >interesting to compare him with Wallace. I don't think I've ever seen >Montfort called a "patriot," although you can't cross a bridge in the >Midlands without running into him. Interesting comparison. What were de Montfort's motives? What (or who) was he fighting for? Wallace is only called a "patriot" by the Scots; the English have always called him a traitor. Have you read the Declaration of Arbroath? I would put it side by side with the Declaration of Independence. The language of it is so forceful that anyone with a shred of sympathy for the Scots or any other underdogs would immediately regard Wallace and Bruce as not only patriots, but heroes. Without such prose, other rebellions - particularly unsuccessful ones with baser motives - are not cloaked in glamor. What do you suppose would have happened in America if there were no Jefferson and no Declaration? >Actually, speaking of things not too badly done in the movie, the women's >costuming (the panne velour cotehardie notwithstanding) was better than I've >seen in a number of movies. It was recognizable as 14th century, and the >headdresses were nice. Too often the nifty headgear is ditched because >someone decides it's fussy or "oppressive." It should have been recognizable as 13th century! But I do agree that it was nice to see noblewomen's hair covered. The fabric choices were largely disastrous, though. That thing they had young Edward in was a howler! I did get a kick out of the English soldiers' armor - goofy looking, and clearly based on an illustration from a copy of the late 14th century poem, "The Bruce." (My copy is packed so I can't get the date for the illustration.) Tim Bray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:36:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21285 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:36:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01238; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09987 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:51:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09980 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA12209 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38189B02.273C6E94@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:50:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and links References: <19991028181950.LQVO16527.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press R.L. Shep wrote: > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I have seen some mention of *links* not being useable without permission. > I would like clarification. I have always thought it was OK to put a link > in for another site - if it was clear that it was just that i.e. another > site. Robb, Try this web site for info, especially the sub pages relating to the Internet. The author is a lawyer specializing in intellectual property law. http://www.benedict.com/contents.htm > > When I had my own website I had links to other sites and gave reviews of > those sites so that people could decide if they wanted to go see for > themselves. We are considering reviving this practice > By the same token I find people on this list putting a link into their > messages all the time so that other people can go to a site in question. > In my mind it is the same as saying *read X book*. > Any comments? In my mind there is an ethical difference between different types of links. In a web site such as yours, the links are essentially a bibliography. Readers are not confused about which web site is yours and which sites belong to other people. On the other hand, there are sites that link to other peoples' subpages in a way that uses the content of those pages to support their own pages and which makes it unclear which pages belong to who. This may not be intentional in some cases, but it makes me uneasy. Then there is a third issue of association. For example, if you object to pornography and a pornography web site links to your page on "Making a Victorian Corset," which you intended for serious historical costumers. I don't know if this violates copyright, but it could certainly be objectionable. Anyway, the web site I recommended discusses some of these issues. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:48:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21329 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:48:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03376; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:03:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12899 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:03:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12882 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.199] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11gupJ-00033F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:03:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991028042318.00a10b40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 05:08:30 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: why own Braun and Schneider? In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB519@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm not sure B&S gives anyone the basic understanding you want them to have, >since the lines are often wrong, or moved, or missing, and dates and places >are misattributed. It's all in one place, sure, but that just makes it >easier to toss in the trash. > >Why not start with those art books to begin with? For a several reasons. First, I found that SCA beginners who didn't have any idea of what they wanted overloaded pretty quickly when I brought out my best books. Their newbie brains couldn't yet see past the artistic style changes from one period to another, and they closed the books in exasperation and confusion. B&S, in their cartoon-like way, provided the 'Reader's Digest' version of all of the SCA periods, in one place, so those people could get started. Then I would zero in on whatever period they picked - "Now let's see what this really looked like" - in another book. Anyway, that's why I got my copy and how I mostly used it. (Opinion alert: I'll take a Victorian redrawing over anything R. Turner Wilcox ever did!) Secondly, B&S provides me with a Victorian slant on historical costumes, such that I can understand Victorian better. This is useful when I do Victorian 'fancy dress' (their idea of dressing up in costume). I also use B&S as a source of Victorian copies which, when compared with the original picture, provides me with a guideline by which to measure degree of Victorian distortion. I often used to find the Victorian image of some garment before I found the image they copied, and now I have a feel for translating back out of Victorian if all I have is a Victorian image (not foolproof). But my favourite use for B&S is in the contemporary (=Victorian) ethnic sections. Their engravers were apparently working from photographs, and the correlation between the B&S plates and any photographs from that period which I can find is pretty good. So good that I tend to believe the plates even when I have no photos to compare with. I often question the captions to their plates, but the stuff in them is pretty accurate, and more detailed than I can usually find elsewhere. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21333 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03702; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13351 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:04:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13286 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FKB00DMJU8ZRO@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:02:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:14:12 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft and links In-reply-to: <199910281841.MAA07630@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19991028141412.007a3c10@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"R.L. Shep" > >I have seen some mention of *links* not being useable without permission. >I would like clarification. I have always thought it was OK to put a link >in for another site - if it was clear that it was just that i.e. another >site. >When I had my own website I had links to other sites and gave reviews of >those sites so that people could decide if they wanted to go see for >themselves. We are considering reviving this practice >By the same token I find people on this list putting a link into their >messages all the time so that other people can go to a site in question. >In my mind it is the same as saying *read X book*. >Any comments? There are a number of arguements regarding this, however, legally simply linking to a site is perfectly legal, even without permission since it's just another form of citation. I believe the real debate emerges between two different styles of linking. In the first, the linker clearly specifies that the material being linked to is outside their site (e.g. "for more on Sumerian facial tatoos, see Cawdrey Shiffer's site at http://"www.blah.blah.com""; or setting up a special "Links section"), as opposed to simply linking to the other site with no notice (e.g. "for more on Sumerian facial tatoos, look _here_") as though it were a continuation of your work. The latter is technically legal, although it is rude and potentially misleading. Beyond that, there ARE some people who don't want there material linked to, ever, for whatever reason, period, full stop. That's ok for them, and I try to respect that. Me, I figure if people are going to use my material, links are going to happen. If they lead more people to my stuff, all the better. It would be nice if they were a little more specific. If nothing else, I'd rather not have the lack of credibility added to my site (THAT much I can do myself :) ) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:53:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21343 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:53:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04186; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:08:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14012 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:08:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14001 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26432 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38189F99.6AA9A829@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:10:18 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart References: <3.0.1.32.19991028113219.0069c220@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >Simon de Montfort was also chopped into bits and set around England. It's > >interesting to compare him with Wallace. I don't think I've ever seen > >Montfort called a "patriot," although you can't cross a bridge in the > >Midlands without running into him. > > Interesting comparison. What were de Montfort's motives? What (or who) > was he fighting for? Montfort's motives were, as I understand it not being a history expert, were that he desired a 'parliament' type group that would have representatives from *every* class in England, not just the nobility. He wanted the workers represented. Possibly the first socialist. *GGG* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:22:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21389 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:22:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08526; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21429 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:37:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21422; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910281937.NAA21422@net.indra.com> From: "Carol J. Cannon" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Cannon" Date: W991027 From: Susan Fatemi wrote : I'd be interested in this information, too, please. Or at least the names of the books?--Susan F. Here are the bib. ref's. for both books: Shen, Ts'ung-wen, 1902- . Chung-kuo ku tai fu shih yen chiu / the author ... [et al.]. Hsiang-kang : Shang wu yin shu kuan, 1992. 9, 28, 328 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 36 cm. + 1 index (45 p. ; 36 cm.). LC Call No.: Gt1555.S53 1992. LCCN: 82168821 /ACN ISBN: 9620750004. This book shows various classes of persons over more than the Tang dynasty. Lu, Yu[with umlaut]-lin. Chao-ling T'ang jen fu shih. Hsi-an : San ch'in ch'u pan she, 1990. [4], 160 p. : ill. ; 27 cm. Inc. bib'l. ref's. LC Call No. : GT1555.C554 1990 ISBN: 7805462925. This latter book is strictly for the T'ang dynasty. I hope these books will be available through Interlibrary Loan and that you may find them useful. Good luck! Gra/inne / Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "We dance round in a ring and suppose,/But the Secret sits in the middle and knows."--Robert Frost, 'The Secret Sits' My opinions do NOT represent my employer's.--Carol J. Bell Cannon ;cjcannon@ucdavis.edu ; Catalog, Main Library, UCD ; (530) 752-6739 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21432 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:28:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09483; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23078 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:43:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23068 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.62] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11gvSO-0000PX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:43:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991028051810.00b70ea0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:54:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991028143816.006b2cf0@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> References: <0.3d51b249.2549ac94@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My great-grandfather fought in the Civil War (American). That is still >relatively recent history, only 3 generations away. Mine too. My father fought in WWII, his father fought in the Spanish American War, and my brother was all set to have to go to Viet Nam. Welcome to the timeline. >During the 1970's, I tried to explain how Shi'ites are VERY affected by >events that took place before 700 A.D. and how it drove the Iranian >revolution. My Serbian landlords (they were Yugoslavians when we moved in), gave me the same kind of story about those (Serbian expletives deleted) Bosnians, based on something which happened in, I think, the 1500's. On the bright side, they gave me a Yugoslavian Airlines magazine with some really cool photos of embroidered folk costumes in it. I'd get blank stares from students. They couldn't comprehend >anyone caring about anything longer than 15 years. IMHO the rapid increase >in US re-enactment is helping to counter that false "history-less" trend. What always gets me is the idea that people don't have a sense that they are living on the same timeline as 'history'. They don't, for example, realize that their clothes will appear in costume books some number of years from now. I often see some piece of twentieth century costume related stuff and think it's worth saving because someone may want it for their Ph.D thesis or their museum 100 years from now. I think about the fact that every piece of historical costume we now have has spent all the intervening years between 'then' and 'now' somewhere. My younger daughter asks what Hippies wore, and I can show her 'provenanced' period stuff, but I keep thinking I should write that information on acid-free paper and include it with each garment. >[I once asked a student in what decade the War of 1812 took place. He thought it was a trick question and said 1860. Sigh.) That's just sad. But my teenager might have answered the same. OTOH, my 11-year-old does Living History with me, and will wear her Ren. Faire outfit for Halloween. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:40:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21466 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11165; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25915 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:54:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25906 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:54:27 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TNSa15805 (4441) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d417230f.254a03cf@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:53:51 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 40 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/1999 2:43:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keegan@mcn.org writes: << "Last of the Mohicans" for example. >> If you only knew..... Anyone ever see Truffout's "Life of Louis IV"? Very strange. It must be accurate! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:42:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21472 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11469; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26527 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:56:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26497; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:56:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11gvf4-000NrB-0C; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:56:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1BPJvDA9oKG4IwWs@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:55:41 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: william wallace again In-Reply-To: <0.659433f0.2549a232@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <0.659433f0.2549a232@aol.com>, Gaelscot@aol.com writes > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > >This is getting way OT, but I don't think I'd agree that Wallace wasn't a >patriot. He wasn't an American-style patriot, by any means. But he has been >called one of the first modern sort of patriots by some historians, because >he really was all for Scotland being independent of England, not just for >this or that family being in charge. Anyway, I believe that the SCOTS >certainly think so, and they have a long history of wanting independence. >William Wallace was very much in evidence this year when the Scots finally >got their own parliament. They haven't had one in 300 years and they opened >this one as if the last one had happened a week ago. A friend of mine was in >Edinburgh at the time, and when she got back we marveled over the way the >Scots still care about things that happend hundreds of years ago as if they >had happened yesterday. It's a European kind of attitude that we Americans >think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't get it. >It's one of those qualities that you give up to become and American. > >Gail I'm glad your friend enjoyed it - I thought it was superb too. It was interesting that the English-led administration tended to refer to it as the opening of a brand new parliament, where the Scottish Nationalists talked about reconvening the old one. I generally suspect that the difference in attitude between "old world" and "new world" (which includes Australians as well) is just because our old history is right here. I believe that in most places in the US a building 100 years old is pretty old - in Edinburgh it's quite new! On my way to work I pass buildings built from about 1200 onwards. It's just part of life, and that seems to be what really boggles visitors. Mind you, still caring about things that happened hundreds of years ago isn't always so great - Ireland, Yugoslavia, anyone? But knowing the history accurately can maybe help defuse those feelings (rather than using the likes of Braveheart to whip it up!) End of rant, Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21479 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11708; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27054 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:58:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27043 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.106] ([172.19.1.106]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:58:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991028051810.00b70ea0@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19991028143816.006b2cf0@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> <0.3d51b249.2549ac94@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:59:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Kayta's response regarding the timeline we live in hit home on several levels. Dad was in the Korean War, my grandfather, born in Golden Gate Park after the 1906 earthquake was too old to be in WWII and felt the slight all his life. My other grandfather spent much of his life trying to keep alive in Turkish Armenia - he wasn't Turkish - and my brother was old enough to have a draft number but just young enough to have his number (#23) cancelled. There are timelines all around us, and it's important to remember that, not just so we can keep those acid-free stories for our kids with our hippy clothes. > >That's just sad. But my teenager might have answered the same. OTOH, my >11-year-old does Living History with me, and will wear her Ren. Faire >outfit for Halloween. I'm jealous. I can't get my kids to wear their fair outfits for halloween. My daughter's quote was, "It's not a costume, Mom. It's my clothes for faire!" LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 15:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21541 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:24:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17593; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07210 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:36:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07178 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:36:36 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6BTY0yALr1 (4509) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.cfbdab95.254a0da5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:35:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/99 3:44:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: realize that their clothes will appear in costume books some number of years from now. I often see some piece of twentieth century costume related stuff and think it's worth saving because someone may want it for their Ph.D thesis or their museum 100 years from now. >> Case in point. There is a jacket designed for the new bicycling rage of 1897 featured in the timeline on Calendar 2000. It is identical to the suit jackets in the stores today! Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 15:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21545 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:25:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17752; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07705 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:38:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07691 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.133] (ppp133.creative.net [208.225.99.133]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17076 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991028110623.006a5718@mail.mcn.org> References: <0.8b9f6abe.25478c28@aol.com> <3.0.1.32.19991028110623.006a5718@mail.mcn.org> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:46:51 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >Tim Bray, posting from Catherine's account: > >Braveheart was a great movie. It was a lousy documentary, but that's not >what it was supposed to be. I didn't expect a documentary. I know little about William Wallace, i don't have a jones for things Scottish as some many folks at the small Renn Faires at which i work do (more Scottish personae than English), and i have enjoyed Mel Gibson in other films. Setting aside all the critiques of costume, history, etc., i thought Braveheart was a mediocre movie and way too long, considering its content - and length isn't an issue with me as i enjoyed watching 3-1/2 hours of the weird Danish made-for-tv production "The Kingdom" (still waiting for the sequel to be available on videotape in the US...) Just my strongly worded opinion. Anahita who will refrain from further comments on "Braveheart" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 15:33:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21557 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19000; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09988 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:46:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09974 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:39:17 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB520@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: History's mysteries Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:39:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA I always find it kind of sobering to think of my youth as a historical era. MaggiRos > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn Downward [SMTP:ldownward@chori.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:59 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries > > > -Poster: Lynn Downward > > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Kayta's response regarding the timeline we live in hit home on several > levels. Dad was in the Korean War, my grandfather, born in Golden Gate > Park after the 1906 earthquake was too old to be in WWII and felt the > slight all his life. My other grandfather spent much of his life trying > to > keep alive in Turkish Armenia - he wasn't Turkish - and my brother was old > enough to have a draft number but just young enough to have his number > (#23) cancelled. There are timelines all around us, and it's important to > remember that, not just so we can keep those acid-free stories for our > kids > with our hippy clothes. > > > > >That's just sad. But my teenager might have answered the same. OTOH, my > >11-year-old does Living History with me, and will wear her Ren. Faire > >outfit for Halloween. > > I'm jealous. I can't get my kids to wear their fair outfits for > halloween. > My daughter's quote was, "It's not a costume, Mom. It's my clothes for > faire!" > > LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21572 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23219; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17427 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:14:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17417 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p32.directcon.net [206.170.184.81]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25848 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:13:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:13:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? I thought I had gotten off easy, as my 6 yr old wants to be a Ninja (black sweats and a hood. I offered to make a black gi but he declined) and my three wants to wear last year's pumpkin suit again. But of course, these nice friends offered us their unused bunk beds and Silly Me just had to volunteer custom Halloween costumes in trade. So, I've just finished a Batman and a tiny bride. I had a blast doing the bride costume. I had an old, gaudy bridal gown that was way out of style. An Ebay check told me I probably couldn't get more than $40 for it, so I ripped it apart and used it to make the costume. Hot glue, Elmer's, fray check, and unfinished seams; what a nice break from my usual meticulous work, and a pile of satin and beaded lace left over to make bridal shower gifts. So what are YOU making? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21586 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24520; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19555 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:22:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19540 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial23.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.23]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA20627 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991028142349.007993c0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:23:49 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: RE: H-COST: German Ren Bodices In-Reply-To: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB519@HP-LH3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >-Poster: MAGGIE SECARA > >I'm not sure B&S gives anyone the basic understanding you want them to have, >since the lines are often wrong, or moved, or missing, and dates and places >are misattributed. It's all in one place, sure, but that just makes it >easier to toss in the trash. > >Why not start with those art books to begin with? *grin* I did. Unfortunately without a scanner, and very sporadic access to the UBC library, all I have are copies at home. I just wanted to give an example of the line I see in what I've researched.. and all I could find (quickly, and online) was that.. Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:13:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21592 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:13:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25219; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:28:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21084 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02202 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3818C07E.F3F43B6D@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:30:38 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? > So what are YOU making? Well, having worn it already... There's an annual party in my crowd always the Saturday before Halloween. I did not bother to do anything meticulously on this. Not at all. 30 minutes tops for the garments. Two layers of sheer poly chiffon, one a t-tunic with long sleeves, the outer layer t-tunic with no sleeves. A huge veil with a hole cut for my face in the same sheer, so I have wimple and veil together. Sheer gloves (with holes cut for my fingers, none of that finished stuff for me) with long hangy jagged bits. A crown of bones (about 6" high) swathed with.... sheer. Long wired bits with mylar stars and spikes stuck into the crown (this thing is high) Under all that sheer a white sheath for modesty. My spiky tattoo on my arm showed through and I took a midnight blue eyeliner pencil and drew a scrolled and spikey tattoo on the left side of my face. Dark dark eyeshadow, the whole thing brushed over with silver, just enough for *pow* but sheer enough for all the stuff under neath to show through. So, what was I???? From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:30:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21614 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:30:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27698; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25286 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25261 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16874 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:49:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:49:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes In-Reply-To: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > So what are YOU making? I'm helping with costumes for Anna and The King, from the movie "The King and I," (I'll be wearing silk pajamas I already had and be the servant who beats a gong every time the king wants to go into a new room) I've made a hooded robe for my boyfriend, the Star Wars (Return of the Jedi) Emperor (complete with sparking fingertips...fun with Tazers!) I just finished a nasty (but it was what he wanted) velour hooded cloak for someone I'll be finishing up/revamping Pinkie (loosely based on one of the portraits of Mme. de Pompadour) for myself for a costume contest tonight I need to put back togeather a nasty stretch velour dress to go under the wench bodice I need to re-cover with halloween fabric for something vaguely witchy for class tomorrow and a geology field trip saturday (Orange bodice with purple spiders and black webs, low cut black velour dress under it, just below knee length, orange fishnets (remember the fishnet conversation?) over black tights, and footwear is still uncertain. Probably my all-black Converse sneakers) It seems like there was something/somebody else.....hmm. I do enjoy Halloween. Anna's costume is taking the most time and effort. The guy going as Yule Brenner sews well himself, and I'm really only advising him, but Anna is having difficulty. Emma the Overworked _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:40:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21636 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:40:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28939; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:55:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27820 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:55:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27801 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:55:04 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EP23ELXS; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:54:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:54:07 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Message-ID: <19991028.165417.-663941.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Well, I spend so much of my time doing historical costuming that by the time Halloween rolls around, I never know what I want to do and usually end up doing nothing. This year I am in a staged radio play of "The Island of Doctor Moreau" by H.G. Wells which will be performed by Moebius Theatre at the Chicago Mensa convention this Saturday. Anyway, as my part requires me to wear a completely black outfit, and I'm going to a Halloween party afterwards, I thought I would just follow along with the all black theme. I got myself a black wig (I'm blond), and a black full face mask, and black gloves, a black neckscarf, and a long black leather coat. What am I? I'm a Mystery! It will be fun to see how many of the people at the party recognize me in the outfit. I'm pretty sure that people recognize me by my long hair. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 16:43:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21640 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:43:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29352; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28545 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:58:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us [209.129.16.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28536 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us (ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us [10.1.100.1]) by intergate.sdccd.cc.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07390 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ntxdistrict.sdccd.cc.ca.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:00:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Heidi Fox To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:59:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heidi Fox >I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? Hello all (my first posting--I'm no longer a lurker!) I'm having lots of fun sewing hundreds of iridescent aqua lame scales onto my mermaid's tail! Heidi -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson [mailto:margo@directcon.net] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 2:13 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costumes -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? I thought I had gotten off easy, as my 6 yr old wants to be a Ninja (black sweats and a hood. I offered to make a black gi but he declined) and my three wants to wear last year's pumpkin suit again. But of course, these nice friends offered us their unused bunk beds and Silly Me just had to volunteer custom Halloween costumes in trade. So, I've just finished a Batman and a tiny bride. I had a blast doing the bride costume. I had an old, gaudy bridal gown that was way out of style. An Ebay check told me I probably couldn't get more than $40 for it, so I ripped it apart and used it to make the costume. Hot glue, Elmer's, fray check, and unfinished seams; what a nice break from my usual meticulous work, and a pile of satin and beaded lace left over to make bridal shower gifts. So what are YOU making? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 17:40:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21835 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06978; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12175 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:54:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12156 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA01325 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:24:22 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA08608; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:24:22 +0930 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:24:21 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes In-Reply-To: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > So what are YOU making? > Nothing! Halloween is not such a big deal here. :-( Which is not to say that I'm not working on anything atm, it's just for an event a couple of weeks after Oct 31 *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 17:48:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21844 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:48:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08111; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14519 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:03:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14499 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-83.s83.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.83]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13217 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02dd01bf2199$1c8d5300$15f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Gibson Girls Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:06:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The Victorian Gathering Place website has opened up a new section for girls between the ages of 12-18 who are interested in the Victorian Era. This new section is called the Gibson Girls, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3002/gibsongirls/ and is open for memberships. If you know a young lady who is in this age range and is interested in the era, please forward this message to them. This is not one of my websites, but I am a member of the Victorian Gathering Place website. The VGP is a group of ladies who are interested in the whole Victorian Era in several fields. Some members like costume, ettiquette, and graphic art, to mention a few. Their homepage URL is http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3002/ BTW, if you get on their email list, it is VERY active. There is a lot of chit-chat on their email list, but it is fun. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 19:19:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22050 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17391; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00462 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:34:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00448 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199910290034.SAA00448@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 18906 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 00:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p119.206.ic.net) (206.84.206.119) by unknown with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 00:34:43 -0000 From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" To: "historic costume group" Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:35:51 -0400 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: H-COST: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" "Poster: Margo Anderson I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween?" Anybody out there watch the 70s Britcom "Are You Being Served?" I've transformed myself into Mrs. Slocombe, right down to the bright blue wig and directiore knickers. Smash hit at last year's party! Michelle =========================================================== Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb@ic.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world." -- Herbert Lom, in "A Shot In the Dark" =========================================================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 19:21:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22056 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17626; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00808 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:37:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00798 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:37:18 -0600 (MDT) From: DDunker@aol.com Received: from DDunker@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VGPjVptP_ (3979) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.6ba5145c.254a4616@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:36:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: william wallace again To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DDunker@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/99 6:43:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << << It's a European kind of attitude that we Americans think we understand but, when face to face with it, we just don't get it. >> Hmmmmm...must be why there so many Civil War reenactors. ___ Sure, we get it and a lot of us show it. The difference is, we are so diverse in this country, we enjoy the history of ancestors from so many countries. Hence many traditions, holidays, religions, costumes, garb, GOSH, I LOVE this country _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22228 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:06:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26660; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16882 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:21:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16876 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:21:37 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TNB06BQIK (3850) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4c51970b.254a5e8d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:21:01 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I'm wearing what I have for the last two years--an early 19th century mourning ensemble. We do an 1814 funeral reenactment at Riversdale, the historic house museum where I work. My dress, in black wool, is based on the one Rosalie Stier Calvert wears in her portrait by Gilbert Stuart. I wish he had been more interested in clothes. It was hard for me to figure out the details based on his painting. My veil is based on one in an 1818 Ackermann's fashion plate. Long black gloves, black shawl, black fan (from Pier One), and black beaded reticule complete the outfit. My husband re-enacts an Episcopal minister, so I made him a white linen surplice last year to wear over his white shirt, black wool knit pantaloons, and gray, white, and black striped silk waistcoat. (He wears a black tailcoat, black felt round hat, and gray gloves when not in clerical garb.) One of our volunteers took pictures with infra-red film last year. (It is very dark, with only candles for lighting.) Almost everyone's black outfit photographed as gray, some of them very pale, but my black dress was still BLACK. Weird! This is our third and last year for the funeral. Next year, we will do an election. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:58:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22258 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01526; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25195 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:13:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25136 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA29101 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016501bf21bb$a3d046c0$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:13:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>-Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" >>Well, it's usually assumed that unless someone points out otherwise, what >>happens in a historical movie is more or less true. > >Good heavens, where did that assumption come from? Certainly not borne out >by analysis of historical movies, I think... ;-> We, being history buffs for the most part, know better. Comments from the general public have indicated to me that the attitude I mentioned is the more common one. >Hmmm... I am not convinced that is all that much different from the >American Rev. War situation. Much of the knightly class did not support >Wallace, and the nobility was divided, as you note. But the rhetoric used >by those at the time makes it pretty clear that the fight was indeed >nationalistic and that Wallace's goal was to free Scotland from English >dominion. In fact, the single most distinguishing characteristic of his >rebellion was the purity of its motive... as opposed to, say, Robert the >Bruce. I guess it's a pretty subtle shading, and part of the problem is that Wallace has been analyzed so much in retrospect, with reference to later periods, that it's difficult sometimes to know exactly what his motives really were. I do think he felt a stong desire personally to fight off English domination, but part of the problem is that most medieval historians tend to believe the concept of "nation" was in its infancy or early adolescence at this point, and it's difficult to ascertain for sure whether Wallace felt the same way about Scotland as we would about our home country (and even then, there's differences there--American patriotism is quite different than Canadian patriotism, for instance.) >>Simon de Montfort was also chopped into bits and set around England. It's >>interesting to compare him with Wallace. I don't think I've ever seen >>Montfort called a "patriot," although you can't cross a bridge in the >>Midlands without running into him. > >Interesting comparison. What were de Montfort's motives? What (or who) >was he fighting for? Well, in his own day he was fighting for extended baronial rights; more involvement of the landowners (especially the great barons) in policy and government. Henry III had levied taxes for a number of very unpopular and unsuccessful campaigns, and Montfort became the main opposition to this. Subsequent generations have often called him the Father of Parliament, or even turned him into a champion of the common man (because he was the first to call the knights of the shires to counsel the king; these folks would eventually evolve into the House of Commons). Many see him as a pivotal figure in the march in England towards constitutional monarchy, rather than a more absolutist style. >Wallace is only called a "patriot" by the Scots; the English have always >called him a traitor. There's evidence that Montfort was actually venerated as a local saint for awhile. >>Actually, speaking of things not too badly done in the movie, the women's >>costuming (the panne velour cotehardie notwithstanding) was better than I've >>seen in a number of movies. It was recognizable as 14th century, and the >>headdresses were nice. Too often the nifty headgear is ditched because >>someone decides it's fussy or "oppressive." > >It should have been recognizable as 13th century! But I do agree that it >was nice to see noblewomen's hair covered. The fabric choices were largely >disastrous, though. That thing they had young Edward in was a howler! Well, they got it within 50 years, which is doing better than average. :-) >I did get a kick out of the English soldiers' armor - goofy looking, and >clearly based on an illustration from a copy of the late 14th century poem, >"The Bruce." (My copy is packed so I can't get the date for the >illustration.) That was actually based on something? We got a big kick out of the English "uniform armor." That and the fact that they couldn't apparently splurge for more than one chain mail coif. Edward had one, and someone else had one for awhile. Everyone else wore the knit stuff, which is fine for distance but looks *wrong* in closeups. (Couldn't they have just passed around the real one?) Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:02:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22269 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:02:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02034; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26042 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26032 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00169 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01d901bf21bc$4e4869c0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >>I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? Xena for my 8 year old stepdaughter and a white cat complete with ears, and maribou feather trim for the 6 year old. Painting all the Xena stuff too alot longer than I thought it would. A scrub shirt with bats and lightening at sunset for me to wear to work. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:02:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22273 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:02:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02038; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26048 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26033 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00157 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01d801bf21bc$4e054640$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Praire Dresses Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:07:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >The bonnet, btw, is a button bonnet, fashioned after the originals that came >apart in order to be easier to iron. Not a very good one, better ones are >available from Sunbonnet Treasures, carried by Amazon Drygoods. They offer >octagon, round, and square shaped button bonnets. Don't worry about your flame undies. They are not needed with me. I said this was not my area of study, and I did not know there was such a thing as a button bonnet. I love this list because every time I ask a dumb question there is someone who knows the time and can help!!!!!! Thank you. I just thought it was a rather strange hat. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22277 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:02:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02215; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26323 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:18:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26313 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA29543 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <017c01bf21bc$5bad1020$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:19:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >> Interesting comparison. What were de Montfort's motives? What (or who) >> was he fighting for? > >Montfort's motives were, as I understand it not being a history expert, were that >he desired a 'parliament' type group that would have representatives from *every* >class in England, not just the nobility. He wanted the workers represented. >Possibly the first socialist. *GGG* Not quite true. He was the first to call any group other than the "barons" (major landowners) to act as counsellors to the king; the people he called were the "shire knights"--a rank or two below the barons, they were the people relied upon to carry out local government, acting in such capacities as sheriff. The "barons" would eventually evolve into the Lords, the "knights" into the Commons. Montfort seems to have had significant support from the merchant classes (London was a big power base) and may have been seen as a popular hero by others, but there's no evidence he ever asked for representation for the "working classes" (e.g. craftsmen and peasants). Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:10:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22283 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02895; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27545 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:25:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27534 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA00095 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01d701bf21bd$53e4c3a0$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: braveheart Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:26:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I'm always willing to look over historical felicities if the script and acting is strong. That's why _Lion in Winter_ *rules* (I think John was a bit too snively, but otherwise....). If it's just entertainment....then entertain me already! Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22287 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03097; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28109 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:29:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from host.vivid.net (ns.vivid.net [206.65.48.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28102 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:29:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.195.12.131] (pm-atl-4-131.nbank.net [209.195.12.131]) by host.vivid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26399 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:29:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: WendyC@mail.vivid.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01d901bf21bc$4e4869c0$0200a8c0@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:41:13 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wendy Colbert Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Wendy Colbert >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > >>>I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? My 10 year old son, wants to be a pokemon and we settled on bulbasaur. I have lots of green lycra let over from an ice show that I sewed for. I am making a green unitard with mits and shoe covers and the bulb on his back will be sculpted from open cell foam and covered with lycra. He wants me to arrange it so his "collection bucket" sits in the middle of the bulb, but I am not sure if that is going to happen. Wendy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:17:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22291 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:17:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03318; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28460 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:31:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28446 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991029033133.DJQY8996.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:31:33 -0700 Message-ID: <381914E5.F471DE15@home.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:30:45 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent [William Shatner school of acting voice] Have... just... finished... Obi-Wan costume... from... Episode I. Sending to... cousin... in... CA. Exhausted! Finish... Blue... tomorrow!! Kat off to the post office so her soon to be 6 yo cousin will have a *third* costume for the festivities!! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22295 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:17:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03548; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28768 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28760 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-87.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.87]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA04446 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028232429.0095dac0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:24:29 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesseswhoindulge in it] In-Reply-To: <0.b0f8ad92.2549ad6c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >> I missed the original post...could someone please forward it to me. >I, too, missed out. But I would love to be involved in the solution. Could >someone email me the original post? Thx! Did the orginal behind posts behind this actually make it to the h-cost list? I would have to make it a "me three". The first post I saw appears to have been at least the 5th given the responses left on it. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22299 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03517; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28737 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28729 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-87.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.87]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA04407 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028215343.009683e0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:53:43 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >and of course they are all so pretty, accurate or not. and then there's >Colonel crawly, he's a cutie!, looks a lot like Ciaran Hinds, I think he's >the same man that played Edward Rochester in Wide Sargasso Sea. Anyway, >lots to drool over all the way around. :) Ciaran Hinds also played the capitan (name escapes me at the moment) in Persuasion (the one with Fiona Shaw). But, there is a movie version of Wide Sargasso Sea! Please! Give me more info. :) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:18:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22303 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:18:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03524; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28721 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28712 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-87.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.87]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA04381 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991028213248.009673d0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:32:48 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: costumes reused (was: Anyone watching Vanity Fair?) In-Reply-To: <0.ce3ad381.25470615@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Cosprop manager told us that most costumes are returned "to stock" after >filming. That makes them available for other films/TV productions. Very >possible that the same dress was seen in other productions. That reminds me - I'm positive that the crown that "Danielle" is wearing in "Ever After" (at the end) is the same one worn by "Kathrine" in Branagh's "Henry V". Anyone else ever notice recyled costumes? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22311 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04954; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01154 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:48:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01144 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:48:31 -0600 (MDT) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6OHRa09341 (3969) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.baab7d43.254a72e6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:47:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 17 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com No sewing for me this year. I just finished making periwinkle polyester costumes for 20 chorus member in Antigone (I did NOT design the show), so I wanted something fast and easy- and that will stand up to cast and other parties on Saturday. Halloween is big on this campus...we're cleaning up dead leaves from the hall decorating contest as I type. So my costume is a borrowed shirt that can best be described as a peacock on acid- metallic blue, purple, and green. God-aweful ugly. I have peacock feathers for my hair, and I'm making a tail out of balloons. Can't wait to see the looks. -Alison Stacy Ohio Wesleyan University acstacy@cc.owu.edu aliaclaire@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22325 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:57:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07319; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05017 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:12:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05011 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mouse-s-box (cvx01-508.sfo.wenet.net [206.169.249.254]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20256 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910290411.VAA20256@smtp.well.com> X-Sender: mouse@mail.well.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:11:46 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lee Carter Subject: H-COST: Theft etc, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lee Carter As of October 28, at 9:10pm California time... Narina has changed the website... Links to other people stuff is gone ... I think ... I hope. Look at the new version. Gwenyth of Mousehold Heath aka Lee Carter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:12:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22350 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08378; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07080 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:26:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07073 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991029042645.POWI23900.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@C59303A> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:26:45 -0700 Message-ID: <01ad01bf21c5$d63402f0$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <199910290411.VAA20256@smtp.well.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:26:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" 11:26 Dallas Texas time, there is no site...... Karma at work? Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Carter" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:11 PM Subject: H-COST: Theft etc, > > -Poster: Lee Carter > > As of October 28, at 9:10pm California time... Narina has changed the > website... Links to other people stuff is gone ... I think ... I hope. > Look at the new version. > > Gwenyth of Mousehold Heath > aka Lee Carter > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22424 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12236; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13831 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA13823 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24176 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 05:18:12 -0000 Received: from 41.70.3-10.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.41) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 05:18:12 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991028222239.452f2d78@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich I just checked the Narnia-productions website. There is no Renaissance Wedding page. But there is a link to Richard the Thread's website for costume patterns. Did anyone send an email to remind them of good business ethics? Since they are in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, United States' laws would be difficult to enforce, although I assume there are reciprical agreements about copyright protections in some treaty or other. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA At 11:26 PM 10/28/99 -0500, fhavas wrote: >11:26 Dallas Texas time, there is no site...... >Karma at work? > >Sincerely, >FHavas >Dallas, Texas >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lee Carter" >Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:11 PM >Subject: H-COST: Theft etc, >> >> As of October 28, at 9:10pm California time... Narina has changed the >> website... Links to other people stuff is gone ... I think ... I hope. >> Look at the new version. >> >> Gwenyth of Mousehold Heath >> aka Lee Carter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:30:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22471 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13966; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:39:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16283 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11h4e4-0003mT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:32:12 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:52:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I haven't decided the final yet this year...but was thinking of using my dark, dark green houpplande as a start...and working from there. I have a matching veil, which will NEVER be worn in sunlight again...I crisped through the silk...its very transparent for all its color. And my green suede shoes. Last year, I had fallen over my daughter's black leather overstuffed with books bookbag in an unlighted hallway and blacked both eyes by smacking but not breaking my nose and forehead on the floor...so I went as a pirate, and everyone loved it...no makeup, but it looked real. {wry grin} Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 01:08:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22495 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16378; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20947 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:20:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20935 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23551 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-186.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.186]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25304 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009501bf21d7$6d29bb80$c681fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:32:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >This book was re-published last year and is widely available as many have said. >Ain't it grand!? > >Cynthia > Yeah! Except they raised the price of the stinking thing. Geez, I may never get to own one! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From Cheryl@sessionware.com Fri Oct 29 01:48:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from excellence.sessionware.com (excellence.sessionware.com [208.147.50.11]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22512 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:48:27 -0400 Received: by excellence.sessionware.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:10:08 -0700 Message-ID: <91988BAE2384D311B1BA00104B6971F35F32@harmonious.sessionware.com> From: Cheryl Melnick To: Subject: FAN-tastic update! Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:10:30 -0700 Return-Receipt-To: Cheryl Melnick MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id BAA22512 Status: RO Hello to our new members and welcome to the latest update of the International Fan Collector's Guild. I have been busy updating the site, and welcome you to stop on by and take a look at these new features: The IFCG Privacy Statement Links have been updated A new fan shop is being built online (wait till you see what's being offered!) Sayu Chen's original family fan collection! The Millenium Fan Fan Artist Contests and tips Bernie Seinberg's wonderful phonograph fan collection Debbie Miller's fan recollections New IFCG graphic buttons to add to your website! Free Fan clip art Bridal fans revealed Graham Morgan antique fan postcards Awards for the IFCG website Any many back end features have been added to enhance your viewing experience. I also will be posting many fans for sale soon, as well as many link updates, and more information for the site. Since I received the message below and it is of a timely nature, I wanted to be sure that you received it in your mailbox right away, even though the latest update isn't finished. There is still time available to post your memories, hints and stories about fans in Collector's Corner. For the first 10 entries to this section, each person will be entered into a drawing for an antique fan. I will be away next week as a speaker at a conference, so I will try to complete all the updates when I return. I've also added an announcement about my business which supports the IFCG through donations of time and resources. The business offers web design, architecture and web development. Please remember that you can order books through the website for your upcoming Holiday shopping; 100% of the proceeds from any books you purchase through the fan site are given to NFTE, an international charity. As always, your email address is never sold, traded or given away without your permission. Please drop me a line if you've decided to be removed from these occasional mailings. Best wishes- Cheryl _______________________________ Cheryl Melnick, Webmistress International Fan Collector's Guild webmistress@hand-fan.org * 408-559-7799 x 222 http://www.hand-fan.org *********************************************************** Something else of interest: Please join us at "The American Century: America's Fashion Ascendancy and Its Roots," a conference to be held from Thursday evening, November 4th through Saturday, November 6th. Offered by NYU's School of Continuing and Professional Studies, the conference will examine the inception, rise, and power of American fashion in the 20th century. The conference considers designers and the fashions they created; institutions and individuals who collect and preserve American fashion; and the many aspects of marketing the American Look. For more information, visit the Web site at http://nyu.preferredmail.com/X?/6914-32772150/fashion To register for the conference using a major credit card, call (212)998-7171 on or before October 28. After that date call (212) 998-7130. Tuition for the conference is $250 plus a $20 registration fee. The cost to attend for one day only is $125 plus a $20 registration fee. The conference will feature: ..Lectures by renowned authorities, including: legendary retailer, Stanley Marcus; one of America¹s great designers, James Galanos; and creator of the signature wrap dress, Diane Von Furstenberg. ..Panel discussions with guest presenters: Vera Wang, fashion designer; CNN style editor, Elsa Klensch; and designers of distinctive accessories: Judith Leiber, Patricia Underwood, and Robert Lee Morris, among other notable and influential industry leaders. ..Book signings to be held at Steelcase for The American Century written by Harold Evans and published by Alfred A. Knopf; and at Tiffany & Co. for Tiffany Jewels written by John Loring and published by Harry N. Abrams, Inc. ..A breakfast and private viewing of "Fashion on Stage: Couture for the Broadway Theater, 1910-1955," an exhibit at the Museum of the City of New York. ..A closing reception will be held at Saks Fifth Avenue. June Weir, former vice-president, Fairchild Publications and Lisa Koenigsberg, director, Programs in the Arts and adjunct associate professor at the School of Continuing and Professional Studies, will co-direct the conference. "The American Century: America's Fashion Ascendancy and Its Roots" is offered under the aegis of the program in appraisal studies in fine and decorative arts which is a part of The Division of Arts, Sciences, and Humanities. From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 04:15:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26178 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25453; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24705 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24596 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.177] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11h8IY-0000BM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:26:14 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991028132326.00b84d70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:14:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes In-Reply-To: <199910282113.OAA25848@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? My teenager decided to be a disco ball for Halloween. I have just finished sewing a silver tissue-lame skirt and silvering a pair of shoes for her. She already had the silver sequined tube top, silver sparkle nail polish, and silver eyelashes. So tonight we shaved her head, and tomorrow morning I have to get up real early and glue silver mylar squares all over her head. Somehow I got talked into driving her and my other kid, who is sensibly wearing this year's Ren. Faire stuff, to school. At noon Friday, at my college, there is a costume contest with actual cash prizes. I will wear my crochet monster-who-carries-me-on-his-shoulders costume, to which I may add a Wizard coat for the me-part of the costume to wear. I have an appointment with my tutor right after the contest. She's from Korea, has just seen pictures of some of my old costumes, and can hardly wait to see what I will do next. At least she thinks I'm funny and not crazy. Saturday I will wear my Lurid-Landsknecht to a party, to a Celtic-rock concert, then back to the party. I made this costume for an Austin Powers party at a small Ren. Faire - 1560's cut, 1960's cloth. My Sweetie will wear his 'real' Landsknecht, for contrast. On Sunday, actual Halloween, I think I will be wearing old clothes and painting the bathroom. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 04:15:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26182 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25452; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24681 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24488 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:26:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.177] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11h8IV-0000BM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:26:13 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991028131318.00b8ab80@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:19:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: History's mysteries In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991028051810.00b70ea0@pop.slip.net> <3.0.3.32.19991028143816.006b2cf0@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> <0.3d51b249.2549ac94@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>That's just sad. But my teenager might have answered the same. OTOH, my >>11-year-old does Living History with me, and will wear her Ren. Faire >>outfit for Halloween. > >I'm jealous. I can't get my kids to wear their fair outfits for halloween. >My daughter's quote was, "It's not a costume, Mom. It's my clothes for >faire!" It's a costume now. My kids' school wouldn't let the kids wear anything with blue or black or red on a Halloween costume because, in their paranoia about gang violence, they think it might be gang related. (Yeah, right.) So we had to cover her existing blue trim with some other colour. The coverup is satin ribbon, that won't pass costume approval, so for now here Faire clothes are a costume. Actually it was easy talking her into it. I said she could speak in her thick Faire-English accent all day at school, something I don't let her do at home. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 06:14:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26275 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:14:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29149; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16234 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:23:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16228 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (trt-on2-37.netcom.ca [207.181.81.165]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA05761 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003701bf21ff$e2a05a40$a551b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: References: <2.2.16.19991028222239.452f2d78@mail2.quiknet.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:21:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > I just checked the Narnia-productions website. There is no Renaissance > Wedding page. But there is a link to Richard the Thread's website for > costume patterns. > > Did anyone send an email to remind them of good business ethics? Since they > are in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, United States' laws would be > difficult to enforce, although I assume there are reciprical agreements > about copyright protections in some treaty or other. Following is Joan Herron's reply to my message which should answer your question. I trust that no one is going to get mad at me for how I communicated to her - obviously it worked. Eve (quote begins) "This matter has been dealt with quite amicably with other authors. I had some brides who were interested in your info. for Renaissance weddings they were planning, but all of the information is now completely eliminated and I will no longer refer them on to you as requested. The others in your group who cared to discuss the matter found that I was actually referring many people on to your site and it was in no way intended to be a copyright infringement, just a service I was providing for no charge or benefit to me. I have no interest in your information beyond that and will continue to refer people on to the people who have requested that I do so. Please inform the rest of the people on your list not to contact me with this request as promptly as your group distributed the information. Joan Herron Narnia Productions > -----Original Message----- > From: David Stamper & Eve Harris [mailto:evedave1@netcom.ca] > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 4:29 AM > To: dangelo@ISLANDNET.COM > Subject: Copyright Theft > > > I've been made aware that your page is full of material stolen from > other costumers' pages and presented as being under your own > authorship, including everything from line drawings and text up to and > including the entire page format. This is theft. I suggest that you > take it down now before your web host gets involved. > > Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 06:33:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26299 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:33:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29819; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17938 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:41:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17933 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (trt-on2-37.netcom.ca [207.181.81.165]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA10994 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008101bf2202$65f69100$a551b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: References: <2.2.16.19991028222239.452f2d78@mail2.quiknet.com> <003701bf21ff$e2a05a40$a551b5cf@default> Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:40:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Of course, I realize that her reply is basically a form letter and probably she's been deluged.... just a little early morning megalomania on my part. Who else wrote to her? Eve _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 06:39:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26303 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00521; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA18901 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:50:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18890 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:50:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SLEa14284 (4254) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:49:48 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 2:27:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << >I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? >> We just had a baby 3 mo ago & my brain seems to have disappeared. I think we'll keep it simple. My hubby will go as "A Pig in A. Blanket". Pig nose, blanket, black socks & thongs for hooves. We are attending a party w/a special category for witches. Anybody got any ideas. Endora is already taken. I wouldn't mind some suggestions. Thanks Pasha PS Did I mention the Baby has 3 costumes. A Bunny, A Pumpkin, & a hugely oversized Dinosaur. Can't miss the photo ops!! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26480 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:07:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05979; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00261 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:19:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00254 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07064 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:18:50 -0400 Message-ID: <38199EBA.47C72C89@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:21:50 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <4.1.19991028132326.00b84d70@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue One of these days, I'm going to make a fantasy-spacewoman outfit out of a bunch of the lurid, lurex, mylar fun fabrics that I never get to use in my regular sewing. Y'know, the hologram foils, the shimmery opal tissues, etc. But not this year. A couple years back, I held a "garb out of inappropriate fabrics" evening, where people came and worked on more-or-less accurate patterns using very modern fabrics. We had a poet's shirt out of Pinky & The Brain cotton print, a long norman T-tunic out of metallic mesh, a gold lame veil, etc. It was a lot of fun. cv -- The way to draw a girl, I somehow absorbed [as a child], was to draw a regular person, then add certain signifiers: long hair, a skirt, high heels, huge curling eyelashes. I didn't look like that, and there was something instinctively offensive to me about overgeneralizing women merely as a way to differentiate them from "regular" -- i.e. male -- people. The female is [drawn as] a male with accessories. -- Alison Bechdel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26519 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07064; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01900 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:30:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01890 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:29:45 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F613@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Britcom - Are You Being Served Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:21:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." Hardly watch anything but PBS but this is my absolutely most favorite show, it stands up so well even today. I tape every episode so I'm sure I have copies, then when nothing is on worth watching I view these again. So this year are you going as Mr. Humphries, Miss Brahms, Captain Peacock? Perhaps from AYBS Again -- you could go as Mr. Mohlterd! ; ) Connie Fairchild > - -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" > "Anybody out there watch the 70s Britcom "Are You Being Served?" > I've transformed myself into Mrs. Slocombe, right down to the bright > blue wig and > directiore knickers. Smash hit at last year's party! > > Michelle > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:48:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26568 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09841; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA07384 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:02:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07349 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16951 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28721 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Thieving websites: closure Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Hello, everyone. This is Drea, administrator of the Elizabethan Costuming Page. I finally heard back from Narnia Productions, and they said that they were sorry, no sin was intended, yadda yadda, they'll take my pages off and would like to link to my site if I'll allow them to. I appreciate all the support that this list has been giving, and all of the copyright/legal info that's been posted; but as I don't make any money off the ECP, I don't consider it a big enough deal to pursue. Just a major annoyance. And given the response of the list, I'll bet they've learned their lesson pretty thoroughly by this time! :) Thanks again, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:49:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26572 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09982; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA07595 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:03:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07582 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:03:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6EJJzRiie_ (4447) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.340655cd.254b0309@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I'm glad someone asked this! I always love to hear what people are creating... For the party I'm going as a saloon girl, nothing too original I know, but I did go all out for it. Made a (laughing moon) corset with shoulder straps out of red/black changeable taffeta with tons of beading, fringe and braid on it. A short bustle type over skirt (but no underskirt) with more fringe made out of similar taffeta but with velvet flocked designs on it. And to top it off I've got some cute little repro high button boots, a feather boa, a big feathery hair thing I got at ren fair and a ton of faux jet beads. Should be fun. But for Halloween itself I'm going to wear a repo bustle era mourning dress, cat eye contacts and vampire fangs and try to scare the stuffing out of the trick or treaters. We're almost done with the tombstones for the front yard... Happy Halloween everyone! Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:57:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26579 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10842; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08949 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:10:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08935 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:10:27 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6XZLa13073 (4452) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3af90f3d.254b04b0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:52 EDT Subject: H-COST: A question on Dress Guards To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com Recently, discussion of Dress Guards came up, and how to properly do them. What is a dress guard? Thank you. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 09:18:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26613 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:18:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12743; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12338 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12302 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18271 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29613 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: FO: Elizabethan gown Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Finally! I just finished my latest project. It's an Elizabethan kirtle & doublet. The kirtle is of rust-coloured wool/linen, a slightly stretchy fabric. the bodice is sleevelss, square-necked, laces up the side back, and is cut like Eleanora de Toledo's gown in Arnold's Patterns of fashion. The skirt is 6 yards of the same, stacked box pleats sewn to the waist edge of the bodice. I experimented with the pleats--I laid the fabric out, & pleated and pinned it at the appropriate height so that the selvedge would be the bottom of the skirt. This left approximately 12 inches between the pleats and the other end of the fabric. (It's wide wool). So I sewed the pleats down, and then turned the remaining fabric to the underside instead of cutting it off right above the pleats when I stitched it to the bodice. The extra fabric functions like a bumroll of sorts, making the skirt swell beautifully away from the waist. Worn over a bumroll, it completely eliminates the shelf effect and softens the line of the skirt. Don't know how period it is, but it looks period. :) Over the rust-coloured kirtle is a doublet of tawny brushed cotton, with a slight rib. I based the cut on that of Lettice Knollys' doublet bodice, for those of you that know the portrait, only there are separate tabs at the waist instead of one skirting, and single wings at the shoulder instead of the pickadils. It has thin bands of rust fabric matching the kirtle for accents--down the center back, side back and front sides covering the seams, edging the shoulder tabs, and two vertical bands down the front, with 22 hand-worked buttonholes in matching rust thread between them. It buttons up with small brass buttons with a quatrefoil design on them. It's interlined with heavy wool and lined with pale yellow linen. The sleeves are slashed open on the outside, accented with the same bands of fabric as the doublet, and have eight pairs of buttonloops, made of brown waxed linen cording, going down one side and matching pairs of brass buttons on the other to button them up, if so desired. They're lined with the kirtle fabric. The sleeves fasten to the doublet with points of burgundy silk ribbon, tipped with small brass aglets. (well, small brass cylinder beads hammered flat--but they work!) All I have left to do is make a matching toque hat to wear with it, and I'm set. Now I can start on that silk satin & cloth of gold kirtle... Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 09:20:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26619 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13103; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA13179 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:29:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13173 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18658 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29835 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:30:27 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A question on Dress Guards In-Reply-To: <0.3af90f3d.254b04b0@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed In the 16th century, guards were bands of fabric, either plain or embroidered/otherwise decorated, that were applied as decoration to skirts, bodices and sleeves. Some skirts had a guard 8 inches or wider in contrasting fabric around the bottom. This helps to stiffen the skirt and give it more body, and also makes it easier to replace a worn and muddy hem. During the earlier 16th century in Germany, it was popular to have several guards around the bottom section of a skirt, giving a somewhat striped appearance. To apply a guard, get a band of fabric of the appropriate width, embroider it if you have an extra decade or two, and applique it to the skirt fabric. Yours, Drea On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 CONNECT@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com > > Recently, discussion of Dress Guards came up, and how to properly do them. > What is a dress guard? Thank you. > > Yours, > Pattie Rayl > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 09:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26638 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:39:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16096; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17516 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:49:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17509 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camelot (ip156.houston19.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.107.156]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19578 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008b01bf221c$daad91a0$9c6b1f26@camelot> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:45 -0500 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF21F2.EE4EB100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Diane M. Mathews" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF21F2.EE4EB100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a fun subject. I decided this year to copy the new Franklin = Mint doll " Morgan le Fay ". My farm name is Camelot and we play off = the whole King Arthur--Camelot theme. I even duplicated the head piece = with amethyst dangle stone and have my brass chalise for spells. Diane ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF21F2.EE4EB100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a fun subject.  I decided this year to = copy the=20 new Franklin Mint doll   " Morgan le Fay ".  My farm name = is=20 Camelot and we play off the whole King Arthur--Camelot theme.  I = even=20 duplicated the head piece with amethyst dangle stone and have my brass = chalise=20 for spells.
 
Diane
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF21F2.EE4EB100-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 09:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26668 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18226; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20828 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:01:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20817 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:01:54 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EP4V7AB7; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:01:25 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:01:44 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: FO: Elizabethan gown Message-ID: <19991029.100157.-663941.2.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com *sounds of drool running out of corners of mouth* Wow! That sounds fab! Is there any chance of getting to see it? Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 10:12:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26695 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20600; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:22:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25252 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25229 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21344 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01761 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:20:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: FO: Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: <19991029.100157.-663941.2.seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I'll try and get pictures of it this weekend. Drea On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > > *sounds of drool running out of corners of mouth* > > Wow! That sounds fab! Is there any chance of getting to see it? > > Karen > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 10:14:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26699 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:14:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21449; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23676 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:13:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23663 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Fri Oct 29 08:12:38 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:12:38 -0800 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Anyone watching Vanity Fair? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.54.132 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Captain Wentworth! yes he was in A & E's Ivanhoe also...(BIG CH fan can you tell??)lol. yes the WSS was on tnt or tbs one of those just a few days ago, I taped it. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0780609883/qid=941209789/sr=1-3/002-5075974-6141032 I think that should take you to the info, if not go to Amazon.com and type in Wide Sargasso Sea under video and it will take you there, :) I liked the movie, the costumes were sort of blah, they all looked like 80's prom dresses but it was a cool movie. --- Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure >Ciaran Hinds also played the capitan (name escapes me at the moment) in >Persuasion (the one with Fiona Shaw). But, there is a movie version of >Wide Sargasso Sea! Please! Give me more info. Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 10:27:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26716 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:27:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23225; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29359 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:38:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ivic.ivic.net (ivic.ivic.net [207.51.248.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29334 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (ivic-dyn50.ivic.net [207.51.248.50]) by ivic.ivic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07440 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:56:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199910291456.HAA07440@ivic.ivic.net> From: "Lorene Dinsmore" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:28:45 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lorene Dinsmore" Also the pictures are not as clear in the republication. The paper seems to be less picture friendly. Lorene ---------- > From: Michelle > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:32 PM > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > > > >This book was re-published last year and is widely available as many have > said. > >Ain't it grand!? > > > >Cynthia > > > Yeah! Except they raised the price of the stinking thing. Geez, I may never > get to own one! > > Michelle > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 10:40:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26744 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24324; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01440 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:46:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01424 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12950 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3819C1B6.18DF8E3A@serv.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:48:06 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <4.1.19991028132326.00b84d70@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > So tonight we shaved her head, and tomorrow morning > I have to get up real early and glue silver mylar squares all over her > head. So, are you serious? -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 10:42:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26760 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24836; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02329 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from rmx05.globecomm.net (rmx05.iname.net [206.253.130.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02318 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:54 -0600 (MDT) From: psychopixie@playful.com Received: from webb2.iname.net by rmx05.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA01580 ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by webb2.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id LAA25476; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:49:53 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99102911495247.19660@webb2.iname.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: psychopixie@playful.com Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. are all saying they've never heard of it... My sweetie wants desperately to get it for me for christmas, and I'd really like it too We would be ever so grateful if someone could please let us know where to find this book. Thank you, SF > > >This book was re-published last year and is widely available as many have said. ------------------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.switchboardmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:00:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26789 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28596; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08087 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08060 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13982 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3819C786.FCA37E08@serv.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:12:55 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and thebusinesseswhoindulge in it] References: <3.0.1.32.19991028232429.0095dac0@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Did the orginal behind posts behind this actually make it to the h-cost > list? I would have to make it a "me three". The first post I saw appears > to have been at least the 5th given the responses left on it. I no longer have the original post. But I can say this. I forwarded it to the Historical Costume list having recognized many of the websites to belonging to friends. Several have taken action, some of their stuff has been removed already; the company, Narnia Productions, apologized to one already, the Elizabethan Costuming Page, and has asked for permission to link to it in the future. So, things are being taken care of, all over. Your concern has been most appreciated by the website owners. Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26793 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:00:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28374; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07703 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07675 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from annetteallen@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EP4ZXFF4; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:07:03 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:56:25 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: History Appreciation Message-ID: <19991029.090440.-451289.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Annette M Allen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Annette M Allen I know we are getting way off topic but I just could not resist. As a *generality*, I don't believe that Americans have the sense of history that I *hear* that Europeans do. However, that may be changing. As someone else said, we (on this list) are a skewed population. IMHO, when you become interested in a historical thing (clothing) or period, it is a natural extention to become more interested in history generally. In addition to this list, there are may historical re-enactors in the U.S. I realize that the Civil War may not have been that long ago in the scheme of things, but it is part of U.S. history. Then, look at all the things like the Dickenson Faires and Scottish Highland games that are, either more or less, an attempt at historical re-enactment for a time that may be previous to U.S. existence. Then there is the Genealogical craze that is sweeping the U.S., and perhaps most of the Western World. I have been fortunate in that my family has seemingly had this need to pass along family history since before coming to the U.S. I identify strongly with history. It is my belief that Americans are in a particularly good position to do this (whether we actually do or not), because we are such a melting pot from the rest of the world. I am an American, but I am also Scottish, English, Prussian, Welsh, Danish, Celtic, and etc. Much of U.S. history came about *because* of World history. Okay, end of SoapBox! -Annette ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:00:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26797 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:00:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28505; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07963 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07940 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23755 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03853 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:10:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:10:48 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd In-Reply-To: <99102911495247.19660@webb2.iname.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Amazon.co.uk sells it. Drea On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 psychopixie@playful.com wrote: > > -Poster: psychopixie@playful.com > > Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. are all saying they've never heard of it... My sweetie wants desperately to get it for me for christmas, and I'd really like it too > > We would be ever so grateful if someone could please let us know where to find this book. > > Thank you, > > SF > > > > > > >This book was re-published last year and is widely available as many have said. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:12:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26830 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01030; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11868 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:24:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11837 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.176.101]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05958 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:26:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199910291626.KAA05958@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 29 Oct 99 10:24:13 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 29 Oct 99 10:24:12 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:24:11 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Priority: normal In-reply-to: <99102911495247.19660@webb2.iname.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com I found it on Amazon.co.uk (rather than Amazon.com): Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Janet Arnold Our Price: £75.00 Category(ies): History, Arts & Music Hardcover - 392 pages (December 1988) Maney Publishing; ISBN: 0901286206 Availability: We expect to be able to find this title for you within 4-6 weeks. However, please note that titles occasionally go out of print or publishers run out of stock. Don't know what the current exchange rate is but you're probably looking at around $150. If you've purchased from Amazon.com you should have no problem with Amazon.co.uk. I've purchased a couple of things from them awhile back and shipping costs were reasonable. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:24:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26844 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:24:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03140; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15329 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:35:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15320 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:35:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id uJVPa02563 (3999) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.176d9f86.254b26b9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:35:05 EDT Subject: H-COST: suggestions please? To: h-costume@indra.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com I need to make a dress for a Christmas choir program I am in. The specs are all black, tea length with long sleeves. We are supposed wear pearls with the dress. I would like to make something that is historically based, if not an actual recreation. I also request it be an easy to make pattern, as it is Christmastime and I have not a lot of spare time left! Any suggestions? (I'll be looking up all ideas in my AlterYears catalog as you make them!) ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time "Hard work is the accumulation of the easy things you didn't do when you should have." -Anonymous schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:28:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26852 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03518; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:38:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15913 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:37:59 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6GQHdRi0I_ (4339) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.6e665e7e.254b2742@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:37:22 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 12:19:29 AM Central Daylight Time, joanj@quiknet.com writes: << . But there is a link to Richard the Thread's website for costume patterns. >> Which is legal. It also states that it is Richard the Thread's site. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:32:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26858 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04504; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16870 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:41:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16854 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:41:03 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WQQa18036 (4339) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.77895dd8.254b27fc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 4:28:23 AM Central Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << So tonight we shaved her head, and tomorrow morning I have to get up real early and glue silver mylar squares all over her head. >> Really? It would have been easier to put on the bald wig and glue them to it. I wouldn't shave my hair for a costume. It just takes to long to regrow and all. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:32:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26862 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:32:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04846; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17699 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15279 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3819CF72.860937E2@serv.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:46:42 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: FO: Elizabethan gown References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > All I have left to do is make a matching toque hat to wear with it, and > I'm set. No that is not all you have to do. You have to *Take Pictures* so we can drool over this masteriece!!! ;-> > Now I can start on that silk satin & cloth of gold kirtle... Aw jeez, I'll never catch up with you. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of AnTir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26886 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09572; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26546 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:16:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26534 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:08:42 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB52A@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:08:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA26541 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA Just in case you're not sure how to get there... When you get to amazon.com in the usual way, scroll to the bottom of the screen and there's a link to amazon.co.uk Cheers! MaggiRos A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Yordy [SMTP:abuyordy@cobfac.BoiseState.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 6:24 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > > -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > > > > Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com > > I found it on Amazon.co.uk (rather than Amazon.com): > > Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > Janet Arnold > Our Price: £75.00 > Category(ies): History, Arts & Music > Hardcover - 392 pages (December 1988) > Maney Publishing; ISBN: 0901286206 > Availability: We expect to be able to find this title for you within 4-6 > weeks. However, please note that titles occasionally go out of print > or publishers run out of stock. > > Don't know what the current exchange rate is but you're probably > looking at around $150. If you've purchased from Amazon.com you > should have no problem with Amazon.co.uk. I've purchased a > couple of things from them awhile back and shipping costs were > reasonable. > > > Linda Yordy > Phone: 208/426-4034 > Boise State University > Center for Management Development > 1910 University Drive > Boise, ID 83725-1660 > ******************************************************** > Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch > directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26899 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13319; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:40:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03358; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:39:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA24860; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3819DAEA.37BD3249@best.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:35:38 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Costume Mailing List , Vintage Clothing Mailing List , GBACG Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Repro Victorian Garnet Jewelry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press http://www.classic-jewelry.de/page_necklace-l.htm A company in Germany that reproduces 1860-1880 style Bohemian garnet necklaces, earrings, etc. I haven't bought from them but am thinking about it. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26898 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13280; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03298 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:39:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03273 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22476 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-83.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.83]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12379 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004e01bf2236$5a2955e0$d245fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:52:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: "fhavas" > >11:26 Dallas Texas time, there is no site...... >Karma at work? >> -Poster: Lee Carter >> >> As of October 28, at 9:10pm California time... Narina has changed the >> website... Links to other people stuff is gone ... I think ... I hope. >> Look at the new version. Oh, darn! I didn't get to see it! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:45:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26919 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15639; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07554 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:55:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.jersey.juno.com [209.67.33.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07532 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from henninlady@juno.com) by m3.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EP474UBC; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:54:51 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:54:36 -0400 Subject: H-COST: Re: Halloween Costumes Message-ID: <19991029.135437.13574.1.henninlady@juno.com> References: <199910290034.SAA00448@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-7,9 From: Elizabeth Cummins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins >I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween?" This poor soul is bypassing Halloween entirely to work on her wedding gown for December 4. It has officially become my project of doom (I hate deadlines cast in concrete!). Elizabeth Cummins (muttering under her breath, "110 yards of lace on this thing. Oy vey! *What* was I thinking?!?" ) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:03:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26976 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:03:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18962; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:14:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12154 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:13:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12140 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA32070 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:17:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:17:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > >>>I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? > > My 10 year old son, wants to be a pokemon and we settled on bulbasaur. Oh, yeah, I also made a pokemon Charmander costume for a little [cement] boy (actually a lawn jockey that has been used for verious pranks at my boyfriend's place of work.) Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26986 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19129; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12430 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:13:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12420 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07186 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-83.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.83]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07453 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00b801bf223b$1f18d840$d245fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: A question on Dress Guards Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:26:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: aleed > > >In the 16th century, guards were bands of fabric, either plain or >embroidered/otherwise decorated, that were applied as decoration to >skirts, bodices and sleeves. Some skirts had a guard 8 inches or wider in >contrasting fabric around the bottom. >To apply a guard, get a band of fabric of the appropriate >width, embroider it if you have an extra decade or two, and applique it to >the skirt fabric. It is kinda like applying bias tape around the edge of a blanket. Guards were used on almost any edge. In JA's, Patterns 3, there are several pictures of edges of garments. Some were satin stiched instead of turned under, like we do today. Some had guards. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:37:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27078 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:37:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24554; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21386 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:48:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f35.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21367 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 71657 invoked by uid 0); 29 Oct 1999 18:48:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19991029184806.71656.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.20.212.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:48:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.20.212.4] From: "Tammie L. Dupuis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:48:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" >Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. >are all saying they've never heard of it... My sweetie wants desperately >to get it for me for christmas, and I'd really like it too > >We would be ever so grateful if someone could please let us know where to >find this book. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901286206/o/qid=941222803/sr=2-1/026-4719248-6521861 This is the direct link to the Amazon.co.uk site where this book is listed for sale. Hope this helps, Laurellen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:39:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27086 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25436; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22674 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:53:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from websvr_cccs.pca.net ([207.136.43.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22639 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [216.215.69.182]) by websvr_cccs.pca.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:02:44 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BF2214.E1A15440@ELEMENTAL>; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:52:46 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF2214.E1A15440@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:12:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF2214.E1A15440" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF2214.E1A15440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? Margo [Carrie Veenstra] I'm making a (fantasy -- tudor era-ish) princess and (fantasy- something like "puss-in-boots" to my mind) rogue costumes for a friend's 6 & 4 yr olds -- "to match the hats they bought at faire." + loaning peasant costumes to the parents so they coordinate while serving their miniature royalty. The princess is EXTREMELY purple rose-patterned velvet, lots of gold trim and gold mesh flounces on the overskirt, a white satin underskirt (strewn with heartshaped gems) and inner sleeves with a fake fur trimmed hooded cape of barely blue pale satin, and her mom will KILL me if she ever finds out how much I spent on materials!! (not as much as it sounds, though.. lots of good sale table bits) I have a great time making them, and an even better time seeing the kids faces when I ask them to try on something I made especially for them -- that is so totally priceless! I love halloween! Happy Halloween! 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Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:03:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28937; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28847 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:17:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28837 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-244.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.244]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25955 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:17:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bf2242$c6de3320$f4aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:21:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" My 5-year-old son wanted to be "Link" from the "Legend of Zelda" N64 game. So, I found some inexpensive green doesuede, made him a tunic and hat, a la Link; then took a piece of cardboard, covered it with a sheet of blue craft foam, spray painted some felt gold and placed it around the top and bottom and made a sword sheath; found some brown boots (that he can actually wear afterwards too) and voila! Didn't know whether to make him "Child Link" or "Adult Link" but decided to go with "Adult Link" because he wears a white shirt and leggings under his tunic (white long johns worked out just great) and it would be better if it is chilly outside on Halloween. For Hubby and I, who are attending a pagan celebration tonight, I made him a black, wool cape (which he wanted) and some loose, baggy black pants to wear with his knee-high brown suede, lace-up boots. For me, I made a black, stretch velvet, close-fitting "gown" with trumpet sleeves lined in a slate blue satin, with matching slate blue satin "cincher", black cape with hood lined in slate blue satin; and found some cool black angel wings at the local Halloween shop. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 2:16 PM Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costumes > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? > >I thought I had gotten off easy, as my 6 yr old wants to be a Ninja (black >sweats and a hood. I offered to make a black gi but he declined) and my >three wants to wear last year's pumpkin suit again. But of course, these >nice friends offered us their unused bunk beds and Silly Me just had to >volunteer custom Halloween costumes in trade. So, I've just finished a >Batman and a tiny bride. > >I had a blast doing the bride costume. I had an old, gaudy bridal gown that >was way out of style. An Ebay check told me I probably couldn't get more >than $40 for it, so I ripped it apart and used it to make the costume. Hot >glue, Elmer's, fray check, and unfinished seams; what a nice break from my >usual meticulous work, and a pile of satin and beaded lace left over to make >bridal shower gifts. > >So what are YOU making? > >Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 14:06:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27205 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:06:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29204; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29143 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:18:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29130 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-244.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.244]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26035 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:18:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bf2242$f9a52980$f4aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:22:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Don't know, but it sounds really cool!!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 2:29 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? >> So what are YOU making? > >Well, having worn it already... There's an annual party in my crowd always the >Saturday before Halloween. > >I did not bother to do anything meticulously on this. Not at all. 30 minutes >tops for the garments. Two layers of sheer poly chiffon, one a t-tunic with >long sleeves, the outer layer t-tunic with no sleeves. A huge veil with a hole >cut for my face in the same sheer, so I have wimple and veil together. Sheer >gloves (with holes cut for my fingers, none of that finished stuff for me) with >long hangy jagged bits. A crown of bones (about 6" high) swathed with.... >sheer. Long wired bits with mylar stars and spikes stuck into the crown (this >thing is high) Under all that sheer a white sheath for modesty. My spiky >tattoo on my arm showed through and I took a midnight blue eyeliner pencil and >drew a scrolled and spikey tattoo on the left side of my face. Dark dark >eyeshadow, the whole thing brushed over with silver, just enough for *pow* but >sheer enough for all the stuff under neath to show through. So, what was I???? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 15:30:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27343 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11753; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21269 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:45:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21244 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991029204526.BWCW25390.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:45:26 -0700 Message-ID: <381A06C9.150674DA@home.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:42:49 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Mayfair13a@aol.com wrote: > We are attending a party w/a special category for witches. > Anybody got any ideas. Endora is already taken. I wouldn't mind some > suggestions. Hmmmm, there's the old standby of Glenda bu-ut... how about Sybil Leek? She was British but moved to America (in the 60's I believe)... a walking suit with a big black cape for her... or Diane Tregarde, the Witch detective/troubleshooter in the books by Mercedes Lackey... for her you need a black leotard, jeans with a crotch gusset (she's a black belt in martial arts) and boots... you could go as one of the 'witches' from the Witch Trials of either America or Europe which covers a fairly lengthy period... any of the witches from "Halloween Town" that was on Disney... actually Disney has had a fair number of witches... you could go as Sabrina or one of her relatives... take a gander on the Internet for those Wiccans/Pagans who have pics of themselves on their site (mine doesn't! ) or failing all else... you could go as *me* (she smiles while wearing her "Witch & Famous" shirt) with red hair and wear a silk top & silk or linen pants/skirt. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 15:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27347 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11759; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21358 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:45:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21346 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991029204553.QVXT18396.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:45:53 -0700 Message-ID: <381A0781.984FEF67@home.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:45:53 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <199910290037.SAA00831@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit > - -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I'm just curious, what's everyone working on for Halloween? Um, I've been doing a marathon stitching stint for my son's costume (the 1 yo's just gonna have to wear the cheerleader outfit someone gave us). The good news is that he decided that he liked Peter Pan, Robin Hood and Annais Skywalker costumes the most (nope, of all those, he's only seen Peter Pan before this week). Then he saw a nerf bow & arrow set at The Disney Store...so Robin Hood it is. The bad news...of course, I saw it as an SCA garb making opportunity... Could have done it for under $15, and in just a couple of days (hey, I can't get anything done till after 10pm, if I'm lucky...and if I get too tired, things go really wrong). I *think* the total's up around $35 or so...all fabric was on sale. Let's see... got a shortcut t-tunicish shirt done (gathered the sleeves at the wrists, put in 4 eyelets on either side of the top, to get that 2 Xs look that people will recognize...nope it's not gonna be done that way, if not for Halloween). Jerkin out of suedecloth...thinking about doing an after the fact interface job on it, but for now it'll be ok...skipped eyelets, belt'll hold it together...or at least on. Searched the mall for a brown belt...finally found one, unfortunately it's got a metal loop, but it'll do for now. Searched for stretch pants of a passable brown or green....no luck. Made green pants. Then the big ticket item. Cloak to actually stay warm with (I'm now claiming the 70+ temps forecast for this weekend to be my fault...if I hadn't decided to do a "real" cloak, it'd be cold :-) 2 layers of heavy flannel (brown is too light colored, but it was the best I could do after searching 3 stores). Center layer of waterresistant nylon...the flannel wasn't as heavy as chamois flannel, and stuck to each other too much. Besides, this'll cut the wind and make it warmer. Then I spent the time and effort to figure out how to construct the cloak so that not only could he choose to wear either the dark green or light brown side out, but so that I could flip it "inside out" and get that nylon on the top (it's a neat green with a touch of blue)...for temporary raingear, or a warmer cloak...so it's not "period"...who cares :-) Did it... Now, tonight I've got to make up the hood part. Don't have a pattern...well, for the hood and for a cowl...see about combining the lower part of the one with the other...though I know I'll have to alter the hood too. Oh, and he insists on a "Robin Hood hat"...but without a feather...so I've got to zip that up, too...good thing interfacing's on sale, I can use the leftover from the shirt. Sigh...I've got the oddest combination of quick, durable, "period" and fantasy going on in my dining room right now... And the worst part of it is that as I made a bit of an error in the length of my underskirt (about 3/4 inch too long...trip on it about 2x an hour), and another in forgetting to fit the Irish dress over the chemise..without the bra, *He's* going to have a choice of two pieces/types of garb to wear to events before I do. *And* I've got to get the alterations done to the other outfit by the end of November, since I've got to wear it in the beginning of December. On the bright side...my son (he's only 3) picked out *all* the colors for his costume...and they work! I only gave him color types, and the fabric he had to choose from and he picked the actual bolts. Definitely hope this continues...I'm not great at making color combos at the store, myself. -Elisabeth (the sleep deprived) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 15:57:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27395 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14700; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28071 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28064 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn44.pm3-6.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.185]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15297 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002101bf2252$e7b191e0$b9f1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> <381A06C9.150674DA@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:16:40 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Mayfair13a@aol.com wrote: > > > We are attending a party w/a special category for witches. > > Anybody got any ideas. Endora is already taken. I wouldn't mind some > > suggestions. And there are MacBeth's witches, and of course Morgan le Fay... ... and Terry Pratchett's Wyrd Sisters - Granny Weatherwax, tall. skinny, traditional except that she has never been able to grow a wart: Nanny Ogg, short, plump, outlived 4 husbands, likes to drink and sing the Hedgehog Song; and Magrat Garlick, skinny, frizzy-haired, much addicted to all the "new age" ways and clanking with "occult" jewelry...... Happy Haunting! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 16:22:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27417 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:22:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19173; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04780 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:36:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04744 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [208.225.99.217] (ppp217.creative.net [208.225.99.217]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28939 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> References: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:45:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat >-Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com >We are attending a party w/a >special category for witches. Anybody got any ideas. Endora is already >taken. I wouldn't mind some suggestions. Of course, there's always Lola from "Damn Yankees", ably played on stage and in the movie by leggy Gwen Verdun. And it's a good excuse to wear the fishnet stockings recently under discussion. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 16:31:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27426 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:31:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20631; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07341 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:46:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07328 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27199 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381A167A.31BA26AA@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:49:46 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: History Appreciation References: <19991029.090440.-451289.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Since I live in a "hotbed" of history, Colonial on upwards, I'm used to seeing tour groups, living history sites, re-enactors, etc. all the time. I'd say the Boston MA, USA area is fairly well comfortable with its historical nature. There's quite a few development sites that now have archeological teams checking for artifacts before major upheaval takes place, for a good example. We also tend to recycle/restore our old buildings, rather than automatically tear them down. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 17:11:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27504 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:11:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25792; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16629 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:27:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16617 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05905 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381A1FE5.E264F8E9@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:29:57 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: suggestions please? References: <0.176d9f86.254b26b9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas How about something from the 20's. Folkwear has #257 Twenties Day Dress, and I've seen one ina major pattern company's book, maybe the retro section, that's fancier, lace overdress, satin slip. Both pretty quick and easy. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 17:38:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27541 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29552; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22237 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:53:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22226 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991029225324.DJNC25390.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:53:24 -0700 Message-ID: <381A24B4.3B8751B7@home.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:50:28 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: <0.d1092a52.254ae3dc@aol.com> <381A06C9.150674DA@home.com> <002101bf2252$e7b191e0$b9f1a2d0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Another witch I thought of is the character in _The Witch and the Wombat_ but I can't remember the author... it has the most glorious silver w/black celestial print dress (w/ high collar, form fitting) on the cover... oh yeah, and she has a staff in one hand and is carrying a wombat with glasses under her arm. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 18:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27571 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:05:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02942; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27525 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:21:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27503 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24407 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:20:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:20:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199910292320.QAA24407@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Witches (was: Halloween Costumes) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson What about the Wicked Witch Of the East? Or, if you really want to go to town (and probably not this year, if you're sane) Glinda the Good? Margo (whose six year old has been begging her to make the Glinda dress to wear when she volunteers at his school) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 18:22:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27587 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:22:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05597; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00373 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:37:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ntserver1.mainsaver.com ([206.17.202.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00364 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by HP-LH3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:30:00 -0700 Message-ID: <5B38B8D7EED8D211997F00A0C9E57FB91DB539@HP-LH3> From: MAGGIE SECARA To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:29:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MAGGIE SECARA How about the witch in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? Long sleevelss gown and, oh gosh, I can see the Pauline Baynes illustration in my head, but I can't rmember the details. I know she has a very very tall very spiky crown. Always winter and never Christmas! MaggiRos A Compendium of Common Knowledge (1558-1603) is at http://ren.dm.net Leap, and the net will appear. --Orson Wells > -----Original Message----- > From: Kat & Kent [SMTP:kdyer@home.com] > Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 11:50 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes > > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > Another witch I thought of is the character in _The Witch and the > Wombat_ but I can't remember the author... it has the most glorious > silver w/black celestial print dress (w/ high collar, form fitting) on > the cover... oh yeah, and she has a staff in one hand and is carrying a > wombat with glasses under her arm. > > Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 20:11:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27807 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:11:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17778; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17363 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:26:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mcn.org (mail.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17348 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fujitsu-635t (ha-1o-men-p4-m09.mcn.org [204.189.5.165]) by mail.mcn.org (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22598 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991029182344.006b73e4@mail.mcn.org> X-Sender: keegan@mail.mcn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:23:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Catherine Keegan Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd In-Reply-To: <19991029184806.71656.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Catherine Keegan Lacis still had a few copies when I was there a couple of weeks ago. I don't have their phone number handy, but information in the 510 area code should solve that problem. The price has gone up to somewhere in the $200 range. Lacis also has a website: www.lacis.com Good luck! At 11:48 AM 10/29/99 PDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" > > >>Help! We can't find this book anywhere! Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. >>are all saying they've never heard of it... My sweetie wants desperately >>to get it for me for christmas, and I'd really like it too >> >>We would be ever so grateful if someone could please let us know where to >>find this book. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 20:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27811 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18947; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18533 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:35:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18527 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup304.serv.net [207.207.70.197]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA18260 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002301bf2276$fa49f760$c546cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: Sally's Calendars...2000! Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:33:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Sally, I just gotta say the Y2K calendars you have is just *awesome*! even though I am mostly interested in costuming mid 1600's and earlier, I *love* the garments that you have in this calendar. *MDF* (Major Drooling Fest) I'm inspired to try to re-create a couple of them, just for the fun of it...Plus I have a Band Booster Auction (the theme is "Back to the Future", a tempting theme for me to try something new) and of course my 25 year reunion coming up in 2000 (yeeks! ye gads, am I really that old! *sigh*). Since I've stayed in touch with some of my former classmates, they know to expect something...um...unusual *grin*. I wore one of my Italian Ren gowns to work today; just one of my plainer ones. It's a beigy tan linen with the usual articulated sleeves tied on and the skirt is cartridge pleated onto the bodice with a round neck and that laces up the front. The chemise is white linen, gathered into a band at the neck and sleeves. My co-workers who've seen me 'dress for Halloween' over the years were used to this, but the new faculty and administrator were just blown away! The reactions were very dramatic and we all got a great laugh about it. I can't imagine what the reactions would ave been if had worn my velvet gown *LOL* This was just great fun! Anyway, Sally, keep up the great work! Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 20:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27848 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22004; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23158 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:09:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f189.hotmail.com [209.185.130.99]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA23142 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 53737 invoked by uid 0); 30 Oct 1999 02:08:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19991030020825.53736.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:08:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.90] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:08:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I didn't write to her, I went straight to the top & wrote the webhost. He sent me a very courteous reply and said that he would need more contact with the various people who were plaigarised (sp?) but if the allegations were correct, the site would be terminated if she refused to take the offending material off. I would be glad to forward his message, which states their policy on the subject of copyright infringement, if anyone is interested, just for the info. Susannah >From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Theft etc, >Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:40:25 -0400 > > >-Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > >Of course, I realize that her reply is basically a form letter and >probably she's been deluged.... just a little early morning >megalomania on my part. > >Who else wrote to her? > >Eve > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:04:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27859 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:04:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23161; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24853 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:20:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f296.hotmail.com [209.185.130.244]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA24844 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 50962 invoked by uid 0); 30 Oct 1999 02:19:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19991030021957.50961.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:19:57 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.90] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:19:57 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" This was originally sent in by me, and the company was the one who still provides c. 1915 -1920s corsets for my grandmother, in her late 80s. Now, of course I cannot find the pamphlet that she sent me, but I remember it is in New York state. Sorry I missed this post until now. If you saw my post about the turn of the century store stock, there are plenty of c. 1900s - 1930s corsets of this type in the inventory. If you are really interested, let me know. Meanwhile, I'll keep looking for the corset company pamphlet Grandmother sent me. Susannah >A while back -- several months at least -- there was a discussion about a >corset maker back east who might still make the early century corsets. >The pink/peach one that goes from under the breasts to the hips. Did >anyone ever contact them and did you get a response? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:33:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27878 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:33:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26009; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:47:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28352 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:47:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28345 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:47:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6TKA5XCpF_ (4200) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.aa02433f.254bb624@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:47:00 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: suggestions please? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 11:07:49 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Schmitt100@aol.com writes: << . We are supposed wear pearls with the dress. I would like to make something that is historically based, if not an actual recreation >> Howabout 1920's, drop waist, handkerchief hem? Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:51:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27890 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28215; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01141 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:06:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.2.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01132 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p110.amax33.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.110]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18603 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:06:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <381A6020.988EC7A5@flash.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:04:00 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: status - Arnold's Queen Liz... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Here's what I've found out thus far: Green Duck usually carries it; they are out of stock, their supplier is waiting for another printing, and the ship date is "indefinite"; they are to notify me if and when they receive more Amazon.co.uk has the book listed as "4-6 weeks additional delivery"; this tells me that they have to order it from the publisher or other supplier; I've written to them asking if they can indeed get this book; awaiting reply Lacis finds the book if you do a search for it; however, the books page that the search links to doesn't list it; I've written asking if it is in stock; awaiting reply Alter Years; I called and they don't have it Thanks to all who have helped to point me to this book. If anyone has any other sources please let us know. If and when I find any I'll let the list know. I have a customer wanting a copy so in this case I actually make money for finding a copy rather than spend lots of my own. :-) [Got my *biggie* for the year -- a copy of Schuette's embroidery book for US$175!] --Charlene -- Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:55:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27894 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28648; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01753 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:11:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01747 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.199.9] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11hOvH-0005Ws-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:11:20 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991029154549.00b99800@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:12:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: disco ball 'haircut' In-Reply-To: <3819C1B6.18DF8E3A@serv.net> References: <4.1.19991028132326.00b84d70@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> So tonight we shaved her head, and tomorrow morning >> I have to get up real early and glue silver mylar squares all over her >> head. >So, are you serious? and >Really? It would have been easier to put on the bald wig and glue them to >it. I wouldn't shave my hair for a costume. It just takes to long to regrow >and all. Yep. We shaved 1/4 inch off of the 1/2 inch of hair she had, then I spent an hour with spirit gum this morning gluing on those squares. She was delighted. As it happened, the spirit gum stuck to the hair, not to her head, because her hair was so short that it was very springy. But it did stick tight, and I don't think any squares fell off till she took off the tube top a little while ago. I figure hair is a 'renewable resource', and both the hair and the idea of shaving it were hers, so why not? I am really liberal about what I let her do with her hair, and she gets a teenage kick out of getting away with things. So if that's the worst of her rebellion against authority, I count my blessings. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 22:14:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27909 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:14:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00454; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04179 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:30:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04168; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:30:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199910300330.VAA04168@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Our friend's party is themed "second childhood", so we sort of went the easy route: my fiance' is wearing flannel pjs and I'm going as his teddy bear (I'm 5'4", he's 6'5"). But that idea, of course, meant I had to go and buy fake fur last night, cut it out before I went to bed, then tonight I sewed up a big long-sleeved tunic, leggings, mittens, and slippers. For the ears, I recycled my Winnie the Pooh ears (a long-ago costume) and covered them in the new fur. They're sewn onto a headband for easy wear. I have a large gold ribbon to tie around my neck. But the real fun is that my friend isn't expecting us. I've cleared it with her husband, and it'll be a real surprise for her: we live in Boston and they live in Toronto! But we got an *incredibly* cheap airfare and we're going up for the weekend. ...eliz _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 22:42:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27925 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:42:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02224; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07701 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:56:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07693 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-87-196.s196.tnt6.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.87.196]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21425; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381A967E.343941C7@erols.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:55:58 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, Cheryldee@aol.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Czarist Russian Uniforms References: <0.cf4940aa.2534945f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > Can anyone help me? My theatre is doing a production of Checkhov's Three > Sisters and the deal that I have arranged to rent the uniforms from New York > has fallen through. If you work for a costume rental house or if you're a > employed by a theatre and might have them in your stock, I would be > interested in hearing from you. Recreating uniforms accurately is a royal > pain and I'm dealing with a shop full of poorly skilled students and a > deadline that is rapidly approaching (Nov. 24). Sorry for the delay but a trip to Ireland and the the backlog is slowly getting done. Anyway... Since you do not mention a specific period.. For early 19th century and some earlier see if you can find a copy of the catalog for "Nicholas & Alexandre: The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Family." by Booth-Clibbon, ISBN 1-86154-038-8, 1998 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 23:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27976 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:11:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04105; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:27:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11550 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11540 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.72.132.68]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991030042650.BMAO2915@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:26:50 +0000 Message-ID: <381A6EEE.34C02A88@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:07:11 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: The Original post[Fwd: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it]] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Since so many people have asked for it and Ihappened to save it, here's Merouda's original forward message from An Tir's Cathedral steps. Carolyn Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > While the links aren't all correct if you go to the home page for > www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding you will find > that the accusations are true. Drea, I hope you plan on taking action on > this! Cynthia > > > ----- Forwarded message from Robert J Welenc ----- > > > > Forwarded with permission. > > Lady Karen Larsdatter, Deputy KMoAS for Atlantia writes: > > > > >So I says to myself ... "SELF!! There's some free time between now > > and > > >5:00; let's go looking for links for the MoAS site." > > > > > >So I look for new pages under some keywords that I like to use. > > > > > >And I find a website. Really interesting company in Canada, telling > > me > > >that they're awfully knowledgeable at event productions. > > >http://www.narnia-productions.com > > > > > >And I use the little search window at the top to find information > > about > > >their packages for "A Shakespearean Wedding." Because, y'know, > > >sometimes information for themed weddings can be humorous. > > > > > >And they've even got some interesting articles at the bottom of the > > >page. Like, for example, the "Information and Patterns - Coifs" > > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's2.html). > > > > > >So I click on that. And I says to myself, "SELF!! This looks > > mighty > > >familiar." And I go to my friend Drea's page -- you know Drea, she > > >does that wonderful Elizabethan Costuming page -- and lo and behold, > > it > > >looks an awful lot like the coif pages I'd sent her some pictures > > for a > > >coupla' years ago > > >(http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coif.html and > > >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coifmake.html). > > > > > >Well, that's mighty interesting. > > > > > >Narnia Productions sells theatrical make-up and books and that sort > > of > > >thing. So, naturally, I'm awfully interested to read their article > > on > > >"Make Up Techniques of the 16th Century," especially since I'm > > slowly > > >working on a page of links on period cosmetics for the MoAS site > > >(http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/cosm.htm), and the only other > > page > > >I know of that has period cosmetics for that part of history is > > another > > >one of Drea's pages -- the "Elizabethan Make-Up 101" > > >(http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/makeup.html). > > > > > >So I look at Narnia Productions' site at > > >http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500'smu.html and darn if it ain't > > >familiar ... except for the photograph being on the other side of > > the > > >page. Plus, an additional page, which shows you which of their > > >products you should buy for that Elizabethan look that's all the > > rage. > > > > > >Zowie, I think I'm beginning to notice a trend. > > > > > >Their page on blackwork > > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/blackwork.html) seems awfully > > >similar to content at the Blackwork Embroidery Archives > > >(http://www.pacificnet.net/~pmarmor/bwarch.html). And their page on > > >stays (http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's1.html) sure doesn't > > >credit Caroline Vincent, but it looks an awful lot like one of her > > >pages (http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/stays.htm). > > > > > >I've emailed Drea and PK Marmor and Catherine Vincent but haven't > > heard > > >back from 'em yet ... but this wouldn't be the first time I've seen > > >this sort of thing happen *without* the original author's > > permission. > > > > > >I just get so angry when it does ... > > > > [Alanna's note: this is more than angry-making -- this is copyright > > theft, and legally actionable.] > > > > >The main page for the Elizabethan section says, "You may be planning > > to > > >recreate the 16th Century with a beautiful Renaissance Wedding or > > >Event. You might be capitalizing on the popularity of the > > Elizabethan > > >Era by staging a play set in the 1500's. In any case, we have > > gathered > > >the information and resources you'll need to create authenticity. > > >We are featuring the tips and techniques, including patterns and > > >step-by-step makeup procedure, in an attempt to create a > > comprehensive > > >overview of the period. You will find the supplies you require, > > >including the wigs and makeup and some great links to other sites. > > So > > >read on- have a Wonderful Production, a Unique Wedding or > > Renaissance > > >Event and please let us know if you need any further assistance. > > We're > > >full of good ideas!" > > > > > >I sure am tempted to ask them about the coif that it says right > > there > > >on the webpage that they've made ... or their lovely (but awfully > > >familiar) blackwork designs ... ;) > > > > > >Karen > > > > One also wonders if they have the permission of the heirs of C. S. > > Lewis to use the name 'Narnia'... > > > > Alanna Volchevo Lesa > > Partan Herald > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Robert J Welenc ----- > > > > -- > > Conflict checker to knaves, knights, kings, and all between. > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of AnTir > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 23:41:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28067 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05868; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14782 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14768 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2666 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 04:54:14 -0000 Received: from 26.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.26) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 04:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991029215757.3abf9326@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id WAA14771 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:24 AM 10/29/99 -0700, Linda Yordy wrote: > >I found it on Amazon.co.uk (rather than Amazon.com): > >Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd >Janet Arnold >Our Price: £75.00 >Category(ies): History, Arts & Music >Hardcover - 392 pages (December 1988) >Maney Publishing; ISBN: 0901286206 >Availability: We expect to be able to find this title for you within 4-6 >weeks. However, please note that titles occasionally go out of print >or publishers run out of stock. > >Don't know what the current exchange rate is but you're probably >looking at around $150. If you've purchased from Amazon.com you >should have no problem with Amazon.co.uk. I've purchased a >couple of things from them awhile back and shipping costs were >reasonable. I found a currency converter on the web and changed UK pounds to US dollars. So... £75 = $123.184, and the £4.95 shipping = $8.13015, for a grand total of £79.95 = $131.31 (rounded off). Which, if the book can be found for that price, is a bargain in my mind. I did place an order with Amazon.co.uk, and will let you know if I actually get it. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 29 23:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28071 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:41:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05871; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14784 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14767 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2666 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 04:54:14 -0000 Received: from 26.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.26) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 04:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19991029215757.3abf9326@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id WAA14772 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:24 AM 10/29/99 -0700, Linda Yordy wrote: > >I found it on Amazon.co.uk (rather than Amazon.com): > >Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd >Janet Arnold >Our Price: £75.00 >Category(ies): History, Arts & Music >Hardcover - 392 pages (December 1988) >Maney Publishing; ISBN: 0901286206 >Availability: We expect to be able to find this title for you within 4-6 >weeks. However, please note that titles occasionally go out of print >or publishers run out of stock. > >Don't know what the current exchange rate is but you're probably >looking at around $150. If you've purchased from Amazon.com you >should have no problem with Amazon.co.uk. I've purchased a >couple of things from them awhile back and shipping costs were >reasonable. I found a currency converter on the web and changed UK pounds to US dollars. So... £75 = $123.184, and the £4.95 shipping = $8.13015, for a grand total of £79.95 = $131.31 (rounded off). Which, if the book can be found for that price, is a bargain in my mind. I did place an order with Amazon.co.uk, and will let you know if I actually get it. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 00:38:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28117 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08782; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20700 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:48:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20693 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12508 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-181.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.181]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29021 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005b01bf229c$1e1071e0$9ba5fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: H-COST: witches Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:00:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" How about the Snow Witch in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 00:58:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28137 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:58:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09825; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23299 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:13:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23289 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18649 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-181.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.181]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12198 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008b01bf229f$b19f1300$9ba5fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: The Original post[Fwd: H-COST: [Fwd: [Cathedral] FWD: Theft and the businesses who indulge in it]] Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:26:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: Carolyn Richardson > >Since so many people have asked for it and Ihappened to save it, here's >Merouda's original forward message from An Tir's Cathedral steps. > >Carolyn Thank you, Carolyn, I missed a lot of this too somehow and wanted to see what everyone was talking about. >> www.narnia-productions.com and then go to Shakespearean Wedding There doesn't seem to be a prompt for Shakespearean Weddings anymore. It wasn't in either list. >> > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's2.html). This URL wasn't found. It must have been removed. >> > >(http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/cosm.htm) This is there but it says by Drea at the top. >> > >http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500'smu.html This URL wasn't found. It must be gone too. >> > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/blackwork.html) seems awfully >> > >similar to content at the Blackwork Embroidery Archives >> > >(http://www.pacificnet.net/~pmarmor/bwarch.html). This is there but it is set up a little different. Same fonts and all in a different order. >> > >stays (http://www.narnia-productions.com/1500's1.html) This URL wasn't found. Looks like they just got rid of the 1500's section. Hmm...Just thought I would give a report. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 04:30:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31783 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17387; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA07955 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:44:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07932 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11hV3z-000CB3-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:44:46 +0000 Message-ID: <5AJaPCAnkrG4IwHM@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:23:51 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: disco ball 'haircut' In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991029154549.00b99800@pop.slip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >>> So tonight we shaved her head, and tomorrow morning >>> I have to get up real early and glue silver mylar squares all over her >>> head. > >>So, are you serious? > >and > >>Really? It would have been easier to put on the bald wig and glue them to >>it. I wouldn't shave my hair for a costume. It just takes to long to regrow >>and all. > >Yep. We shaved 1/4 inch off of the 1/2 inch of hair she had, >I figure hair is a 'renewable resource', 1/2 inch of hair is renewable - 2 feet isn't!! :-) -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 05:37:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA31807 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19247; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA18444 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:51:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18437 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.56.44]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19991030105040.FTXM1762.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:50:40 +0100 Message-ID: <381B30E8.6528@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:54:48 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn The Purple Elephant wrote: > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > > > > So what are YOU making? > > > Nothing! Halloween is not such a big deal here. :-( Here in the uk either. I have just finished the last of my orders for this years deadlines (a rifle officer bridegroom) and am going to spend the weekend cleaning up, excavating the floor that sort of thing. I have just worked out I have made over 40 outfits since January which include 6 wedding dresses, several bridegrooms and a complete wedding party (all of these historical) 4 Napoleonic uniforms including Norwegian and German regiments and I designed and made for a modern play. I even managed to knock up a linen mantua and a blue and white chintz pet-en-lair for myself in the odd spare hours I had off for my re-enacting events. I start next years work on monday so far I have another 4 different napoleonic uniforms booked in (one from Israel the first order to come from my website) and a 1770's bridegroom which should keep me quiet for a few months. I also want to make myself a fully embroidered and jewelled court mantua c1740's and a full male dress suit same period for the other half if I can. Hey ho I know I've got a hoover here somewhere Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 07:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31881 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 07:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23635; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 07:04:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00325 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 07:03:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00318 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 07:03:50 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6VKO0rL66c (658) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.c61afe54.254c469e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:03:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Sally's Calendars...2000! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Thanks, Gia, for the MDF (major drool factor) . That is a high compliment indeed. Now you can enjoy the year in style. Make sure you tell the institutions that you saw their feature in the calendar. It makes them know that their efforts are worthwhile! Now, back to finishing the werewolf costume for my husband to match granddaughter's outfit. Too bad we are not attending Al Gore's Costume Bash! Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 09:36:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31935 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29867; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:52:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11694 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:50:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11685 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14209 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013401bf22e6$88b8d420$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:49:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I saved the original post. Here you are: quote on: The name of the corset company is: Cortland Corset Co., Inc. PO B 546 Cortland, NY 13045 (607) 756-7566 She read this to me from a flyer that is 2 years old, so verify the area code before you use it. The model she uses is the "All-In-One" corselet, which you use with the old garter-type stockings. quote off: -----Original Message----- From: Susannah Eanes To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 10:21 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >This was originally sent in by me, and the company was the one who still >provides c. 1915 -1920s corsets for my grandmother, in her late 80s. Now, >of course I cannot find the pamphlet that she sent me, but I remember it is >in New York state. Sorry I missed this post until now. If you saw my post >about the turn of the century store stock, there are plenty of c. 1900s - >1930s corsets of this type in the inventory. If you are really interested, >let me know. Meanwhile, I'll keep looking for the corset company pamphlet >Grandmother sent me. > >Susannah > > > >>A while back -- several months at least -- there was a discussion about a >>corset maker back east who might still make the early century corsets. >>The pink/peach one that goes from under the breasts to the hips. Did >>anyone ever contact them and did you get a response? >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 10:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31966 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02866; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16345 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:23:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16340 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:23:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6BCPHm8fQ_ (4228) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.20cb8071.254c674d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:22:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Czarist Russian Uniforms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 10:07:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time, matchlck@erols.com writes: << . For early 19th century and some earlier see if you can find a copy of the catalog for "Nicholas & Alexandre: The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Family." by Booth-Clibbon, ISBN 1-86154-038-8, 1998 >> Thanks for the tip. We have solved most of our problems. However, the book would be useful in our library. I will forward it to our Librarian. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 10:56:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32001 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:56:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05871; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23314 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:11:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23305 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:11:13 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6FFZa23737 (3973) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ee17bcda.254c727f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:10:39 EDT Subject: H-COST: Theft and the busin... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 10/30/99 1:14:34 AM Central Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << >> > >(http://www.narnia-productions.com/blackwork.html) seems awfully >> > >similar to content at the Blackwork Embroidery Archives >> If you scroll down on this page it says that it is from this other site. It gives proper credit. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 11:07:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32012 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06759; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26576 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:23:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26564 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:23:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6SKX1V9aZ_ (3999) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.7a614424.254c756e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:23:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Witch Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com WOW You guys are terrific!! Soooo many ideas. I swear since I had this baby my brain has vapored. My friends tell me it'll return in about 4 months or so!! Thank you all for your ideas. I think I can come up w/something semi-fabulous. Again, thank you. Have a Great Time !!! Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 11:15:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32018 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:15:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07396; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27659 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:30:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27650 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:30:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6LAHa02561 (3999) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.b8fafd06.254c7714@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:30:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: disco ball 'haircut' To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 8:12:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << I figure hair is a 'renewable resource', and both the hair and the idea of shaving it were hers, so why not? I am really liberal about what I let her do with her hair, and she gets a teenage kick out of getting away with things. So if that's the worst of her rebellion against authority, I count my blessings. Kayta >> Just a comment on this "hair" issue; 1. What a cool costume!! I bet she was adorable. If I weren't stuck going as a witch & I weighed a lot less I might steal your idea. 2. I started shaving my head when I was 16. I had a mohawk, a spikey-do, I colored it with KoolAid, I dyed it every color under the sun, etc. I started out by cutting off my waist length hair into a perfect DA. My mom even took me to the beauty parlor to do it. She did lament my hair, but she was very cool. Now I'm 34, my hair is back to it's original red (with the help of Matrix RR7}, It is waist length & my Mom is delighted. I appreciate my Mom letting me be creative. Even hair 2 feet long does grow back. Cheers!! Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 21:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00331 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21516; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10471 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10465 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip215.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.215]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA15585 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:19:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <006c01bf2346$3a3fb600$d73d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: Subject: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:18:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I am helping a friend fit a corset for an Elizabethan Era Dress. She has had a double masectomy, and needs to have 'pockets' to put her forms in. We wondered if we could build a bra into the corset somehow. Any suggestions? She plans on closing her chemise or partlet, so there is no concern of seeing the forms or straps to hold the bra cups up. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 21:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00334 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:04:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21519; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10504 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10488 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-344.agt.net ([161.184.44.90]:1031 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:21 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: H-COST: witches X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19991031021922Z15128-10693+23@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:19:21 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) What about one of the many witches from Andre Norton's Witchworld books? My memory is foggy here, but I think an SCA-type costume (with appropriate jewelry accessories) would be suitable. Or one of the notorious Witches of Karres, from James H. Schmitz' book of the same name? Or the biblical Witch of Endor, from (IIRC) the days of Solomon? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 21:08:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00338 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21985; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11173 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:24:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11165 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip215.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.215]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19354 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:24:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00a701bf2347$014c6fe0$d73d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <3817C241.2D237272@flash.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:24:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I bought my copy from Amazon DRY GOODS (NOT AMAZON.com). This company is located in Iowa. It is NOT on the internet. If you haven't found a copy, let me know and I will dig up their number. I remember it being in the $135 range. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlene Charette To: H-Costume List Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:25 PM Subject: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? > > Thanks, > --Charlene > > -- > Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 21:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00430 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24622; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14141 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:52:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com [24.2.4.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14125 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.ne.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991031025253.OXAG1491.mail.rdc1.ne.home.com@C59303A> for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:52:53 -0700 Message-ID: <00bf01bf234b$128552f0$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <3817C241.2D237272@flash.net> <00a701bf2347$014c6fe0$d73d1d26@buck> Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:50:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" Their address and phone number however are on the internet. :) http://www.amazondrygoods.com AMAZON DRYGOODS 2218 East 11th St. Davenport, IA 52803-3760 USA Phone: 1-800-798-7979 info@amazondrygoods.com They are soooo cool there!! Their answering machine message is too funny!! :) Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 9:24 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > I bought my copy from Amazon DRY GOODS (NOT AMAZON.com). This company is > located in Iowa. It is NOT on the internet. If you haven't found a copy, > let me know and I will dig up their number. I remember it being in the $135 > range. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlene Charette > To: H-Costume List > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:25 PM > Subject: H-COST: Arnold - Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd > > > > > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > > > Anyone know where one can purchase (new or used) a copy of this book? > > > > Thanks, > > --Charlene > > > > -- > > Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Oct 30 22:29:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00563 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28025; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20773 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:45:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20749 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.12] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA164060198; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:40:06 -0400 Message-ID: <002701bf2352$7706fba0$80f4fea9@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <19991031021922Z15128-10693+23@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: witches Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:46:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" Ooooh! Don't forget the animated ladies! The Wicked Queen from Snow White, Ursula from Little Mermaid and my personal favourite (and scariest--with one cooool costume imo), Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty! Former Disney Store cast member, Kerrie ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 00:42:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00823 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05465; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04977 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:57:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04972 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22354 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-51.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.51]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05708 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801bf2366$a6308fe0$76fdfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:10:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" One of my best friends died 2 years ago. She had her breasts removed a couple of years before she died and because of repeat tumors popping up in her chest area, never got around to getting prostetics. My 'sister' always used a couple pairs of her son's socks. She would put on a bra and stuff it before she left the house. I realize this is everyday wear and quite a bit different from what you are asking, but I have an idea. How about getting some flesh or peach colored socks and safety pinning them to the inside of the corset? Or any color balled up and wrapped with a nylon stocking? I don't think the prostetic 'cookies' can take pinning and using socks would keep them in place. Michelle >-Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > >I am helping a friend fit a corset for an Elizabethan Era Dress. She has >had a double masectomy, and needs to have 'pockets' to put her forms in. We >wondered if we could build a bra into the corset somehow. Any suggestions? >She plans on closing her chemise or partlet, so there is no concern of >seeing the forms or straps to hold the bra cups up. Any help would be >appreciated. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 00:59:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00845 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06722; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06749 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:15:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com [24.2.5.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06741 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from C59303A ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991031061521.GEDN23579.mail.rdc1.pa.home.com@C59303A> for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:15:21 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bf2367$60cd3c90$ac350418@C59303A> From: "fhavas" To: References: <006c01bf2346$3a3fb600$d73d1d26@buck> Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:08:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "fhavas" I remember that there was a padded roll that is on the inside of the corset to help with the lifting of our bust and keeping them from sliding down. You could manipulate this to include something for the enhancements. Drea? You got any ideas?? :) Sincerely, FHavas Dallas, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 9:18 PM Subject: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 01:23:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00959 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07975; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:39:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08985 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:39:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08977 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991031063935.VCMP25390.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:39:35 -0700 Message-ID: <381BE44C.648D69AA@home.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:40:12 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge References: <006c01bf2346$3a3fb600$d73d1d26@buck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > I am helping a friend fit a corset for an Elizabethan Era Dress. She > has had a double masectomy, and needs to have 'pockets' to put her > forms in. We wondered if we could build a bra into the corset > somehow. Any suggestions? She plans on closing her chemise or > partlet, so there is no concern of seeing the forms or straps to hold > the bra cups up. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! I don't know why you would need a bra in it... fit the corset while she is wearing her regular bra with forms... then add pockets just like the ones in the bras or swimsuits. My late grandmother's prosthetic slipped into a pocket in the bra so you could take it out to wash... and the pocket is not that difficult to duplicate... because of the way the corsets are built I don't think there would be any problem with the corset staying in place with the forms in... do a test run and if there is a problem add some straps on the side. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 05:57:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04967 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:57:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19065; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03164 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:13:05 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaac.compuserve.com (ds-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.206.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03158 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id HAA12280; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:11:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:11:19 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Surplus clearout of books on ebay To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199910310711_MC2-8B18-2B0B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id FAA03159 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson These might be of interest to some of you: Traditional Scottish Dyes Book http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191447449 Historical Needlework book http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191447840 Tudor Women, Queens & Commoners http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191448073 Dressed for the Job Book http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191448367 Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 06:57:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05023 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22279; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08208 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:13:40 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from host.vivid.net (ns.vivid.net [206.65.48.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08203 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.195.11.100] (pm-atl-2-100.nbank.net [209.195.11.100]) by host.vivid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06468 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:13:34 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: WendyC@mail.vivid.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002701bf2352$7706fba0$80f4fea9@ouppc> References: <19991031021922Z15128-10693+23@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:25:40 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wendy Colbert Subject: Re: H-COST: witches Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Wendy Colbert And how about the Navajo skinwalkers and other indian lore? Wendy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 08:24:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05060 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:24:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28327; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17768 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:40:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17761 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991031144035.HINR27059.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:40:35 -0800 Message-ID: <381C52FD.8CE7254B@home.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:32:29 -0800 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Halloween Costume References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Russell Hedges My Halloween costume this year is just a new set of light up Deely Boppers. But this year, they blink red and green. Not Historical, but definitely Histerical. Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 09:12:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05121 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:12:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02167; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22959 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:28:18 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22952 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23130 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:24:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006201bf23b4$a5d8d680$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:28:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I remember that there was a padded roll that is on the inside of the corset >to help with the lifting of our bust and keeping them from sliding down. You >could manipulate this to include something for the enhancements. Drea? You >got any ideas?? :) I'm not Drea (although I saw her yesterday), but one thing I might suggest is a strapped corset with extra-wide straps--these might function to keep in the prosthetics on more sides, and to partially cover them as well. Perhaps fitting the lady in a sports bra might also help (are there sports bras for this purpose? I'm assuming there are....) If all else fails, she *could* keep that type of bra on under the corset. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 09:41:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05172 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:41:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04524; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26269 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:57:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26262 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29256 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:02:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:02:37 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume In-Reply-To: <381C52FD.8CE7254B@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Where, oh, where did you find deely boppers? It *is* historical (well, maybe not by the standards of all on this list ;)), I haven't seen them since my youth! Emma > My Halloween costume this year is just a new set of light up Deely > Boppers. But this year, they blink red and green. > > Not Historical, but definitely Histerical. > > Russell Hedges > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 10:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05211 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:03:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06429; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:19:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28667 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:19:21 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28662 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup319.serv.net [207.207.70.212]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA09745 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:19:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002201bf23bb$94c72980$d446cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:18:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" *giggle* *sigh*...what are Deely Boppers? Must be a historical thing as I don't remember these things at all! Gia/Giacinta > >Where, oh, where did you find deely boppers? It *is* historical (well, >maybe not by the standards of all on this list ;)), I haven't seen them >since my youth! > >Emma > >> My Halloween costume this year is just a new set of light up Deely >> Boppers. But this year, they blink red and green. >> >> Not Historical, but definitely Histerical. >> >> Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 10:31:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05253 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:31:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08001; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01951 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:47:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01943 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:47:07 -0700 (MST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6AJU0ZOqNS (4212) for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:46:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.d371061.254dcc6a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:46:34 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 10/31/99 8:30:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com writes: << Perhaps fitting the lady in a sports bra might also help (are there sports bras for this purpose? I'm assuming there are....) If all else fails, she *could* keep that type of bra on under the corset.>> ETc. etc. I thought that the object of the Elizabethan corset was to flatten the breasts out in order to better display the rich fabric of the outer bodice. Seems that small breasts or lack of them would be an advantage, almost. Why do anything? Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 13:08:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05527 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:08:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20440; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21729 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:23:38 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21720 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21913 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:23:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <381C9732.673D749@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:23:30 -0500 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge References: <006c01bf2346$3a3fb600$d73d1d26@buck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I agree with Cheryl. Why go to all the work when the period look is flat? kEspecially when the "squished breasts" look is going to be hidden anyways. If she's a bit sunken or tender, a bit of velvet pad or quilting would solve that. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 13:09:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05531 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:09:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20441; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21677 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:23:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21672 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:23:22 -0700 (MST) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6AYFa03805 (4407) for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:22:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.682c29f7.254df105@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:22:45 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 10/31/99 3:58:37 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: << Where, oh, where did you find deely boppers? It *is* historical (well, maybe not by the standards of all on this list ;)), I haven't seen them since my youth! Emma >> Pardon my youth, but what exactly is a deely bopper? Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 13:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05537 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:13:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20817; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22434 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:29:24 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22424 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.162.2]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23264 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:29:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <381C988B.1ABCD56@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:29:15 -0500 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume References: <0.682c29f7.254df105@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas They're two balls on individual springs attached to a headband. Look sort of like bounceing insect eyeballs -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 14:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05584 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:29:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27016; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01640 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:44:32 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01634 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp26129131.columbus.rr.com [24.26.129.131]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15654 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:41:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <023801bf23e0$d55f43e0$83811a18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:45:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I agree with Cheryl. Why go to all the work when the period look is >flat? kEspecially when the "squished breasts" look is going to be >hidden anyways. If she's a bit sunken or tender, a bit of velvet pad or >quilting would solve that. That same idea had occurred to me. I think it would depend on the lady herself. Depending on her shape, it may simply look "odd" for her to be flat; or she may not be comfortable without her prostheses. But it might not be a bad idea to pass on that historical note... Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 14:47:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05598 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:47:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29030; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03899 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:03:17 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03894 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.225] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11i288-0004tt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:03:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991029203050.00b577c0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19991029203050.00b577c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:44:19 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: disco ball 'haircut' In-Reply-To: <5AJaPCAnkrG4IwHM@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <4.1.19991029154549.00b99800@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I figure hair is a 'renewable resource', > >1/2 inch of hair is renewable - 2 feet isn't!! :-) Doubtless that's why she was willing to do it. But this is the same kid who, at age 6 decided she really liked long hair. We told her she had two choices: either she learned to wash and brush it all by herself, or we would cut it. So she had beautifully kept waist-length hair by the time she was 7. By age 10 she started wanting it shorter and shorter. Who knows what she'll want next year. Non-renewable resource - oh, you must mean like her father, almost totally bald at age 45. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 15:05:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05612 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:05:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00888; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06167 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:20:51 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06157 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.179] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11i2P9-0006OJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:20:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991029213144.00a725d0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:34:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume In-Reply-To: <381C988B.1ABCD56@mediaone.net> References: <0.682c29f7.254df105@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >They're two balls on individual springs attached to a headband. Look >sort of like bounceing insect eyeballs or butterflies, or solid colour balls, or eyeball-painted balls, or whatever the individual manufacturer wanted to put up there. The idea keeps recurring because I keep seeing things like this for sale in those cheezy-cheap 99-cents-for anything places. Look also at party supply houses and flea markets/yard sales. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 15:22:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05621 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:22:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03279; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08290 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:38:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08283 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991031213838.CBMX20951.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:38:38 -0800 Message-ID: <381CB512.3D8C49F9@home.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:30:58 -0800 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Halloween Costume - Deely Boppers References: <0.682c29f7.254df105@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Russell Hedges Well, I haven't found any. I made a couple of pairs of Deely Boppers. They don't helix, but are just antenna that curve forward over my head. They wiggle nicely when I move my head though, as Deely Boppers should. I too haven't seen a pair of real Deely Boppers in years. Like most things, not valued until too late. Most objects don't survive being old or out of fashion. Deely Boppers I think would suffer in particular from this, being so faddish. > << Where, oh, where did you find deely boppers? It *is* historical (well, > maybe not by the standards of all on this list ;)), I haven't seen them > since my youth! > > Emma >> > Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 18:51:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05974 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:51:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20497; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03159 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:07:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03144 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:06:58 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6WCFa01794 (3876) for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:06:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.33a47676.254e4190@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:06:24 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Fitting Challenge To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com I guess I'm missing the point, and certainly don't wish to offend anyone here. Please pardon my bluntness. If one has a double masectomy, doesn't that give one nearly the perfect Elizabethan silhouette? The only concession to the operation would be higher necklines and/or lots of doublets. I think that one could easily get away with a low square or round neckline if one had a blackworked partlet similar to what Elizabeth is wearing in either the Phoenix or Pelican portrait. Tudor/Elizabethan and the Roaring Twenties look seem to me be as flat-chested as one gets in fastion. Being very full-chested myself, I struggle in vain with trying to get the right silhouette. I just don't have the body type for it. Again, your pardon if I've given offense. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 19:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06020 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:14:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22502; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05755 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:30:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05745 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:30:27 -0700 (MST) From: ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk Received: from hrofi.demon.co.uk ([158.152.7.203]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11i6Ih-0008M1-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:30:24 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Baroque Costumes Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:29:41 GMT Message-ID: <3822e9c7.50633175@post.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id SAA05746 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ben@hrofi.demon.co.uk Hi Folks, If you want a really detailed site on baroque costumes, check out: http://www.kipar.org/costumes.html It's just been updated with loads of new information. Ben _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 19:33:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06038 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:33:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24159; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08038 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:49:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c2smtp.kentlaw.edu (c2smtp.kentlaw.edu [192.148.222.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08033 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:49:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: X-SMF-Message-ID: BE9C1C3801AA3400 X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:47:00 -0600 From: KATHARINE WHISLER To: cjcannon@libpo.ucdavis.edu, cjcannon@greymists.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com, susanf@netwiz.net X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00102459 Subject: H-COST: Chinese headscarves for men? --update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.51 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER First of all, my thanks to everyone who sent info on Tang dynasty men's headwear. Unfortunately, I didn't get some of the references in time for interlibrary loan before this weekend, but I will do so in the future. Instead, I just got all the books on Chinese art that I could find and looked at what the men had on their heads. In case people are curious about what I ultimately did: For the scarf, I decided to go with a 36 inch square out of black silk georgette. In some of the illustrations, the fabric appears to be opaque, in others it looked like fine gauze or chiffon. I thought the georgette would be a good compromise. I put Jim's hair up in a high ponytail & formed it into a bun (fortunately, his hair comes down past his shoulderblades, so this was easy. Next, I tied the scarf at the back of his head, with adjacent sides together. I decided not to fold the scarf in a triangle in the way headscarves are normally tied today because it is clear from many of the illustrations that there is only one thickness of fabric over the forehead. The square was large enough that it left 'ears' sticking out on either side of the knot. Next, I sort of rolled the other two ends in and brought them up on opposite sides of his topknot, and tied the around the topknot. Finally, I wrapped a self-fabric tie around the topknot part and tied it again. (Can't prove that's what they did, but it looks like there is such a tie in some illustrations.) It looked pretty good, if not as tidy as those in some of the illustrations. It stayed perfectly all day, and he reported it as being very comfortable-- in fact, at the end of the day when he changed back to his normal clothes, he almost forgot to take it off! I think more research & experimentation is in order, but I believe I am on the right track. Sincerely, Katharine Whisler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 21:12:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06271 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:12:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03122; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20333 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:27:30 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20324 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.225.99.119] (ppp119.creative.net [208.225.99.119]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13379 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:33:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:36:16 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Puritan suggestions wanted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lilinah biti-Anat As i have mentioned, i am in a small fair Puritan guild - that is, we act at many of the one (and occasionally two) weekend fairs. (i'm more brightly dressed Middle Class at the BIG faire). We've generally been dressing with extreme simplicity, and, as a theatrical decision, all in black, although we do know that during the Elizabethan period members of Protestant Reformation religious groups wore other "sober" colors such as grey and brown. I am in the process of upgrading my costume, attempting to look wealthier, but still "sobre". For theatrical reasons, i will not be making an exactly authentic garment. For example, we are frequently doused with buckets of water, so i am avoiding wool. After all, we are the comic villains at the fairs we work. I currently wear a high-necked, slightly off-white smock with sleeves gathered into cuffs - both neck and cuffs are edged with a small amount of lace. My square-necked bodice with peplum, tie-on sleeves, and overskirt are medium weight plain black cotton (duck i think), while my underskirt is heavier weight black canvas. I wear this over a "Spanish Farthingale" (i'm the only one in the guild who wears a farthingale). Black knee socks and black shoes on my feet, a coif with small lace edging on my head. I have recently replaced my black flat cap with a tall black felt hat, a la Pilgrim, but with the buckle removed (out of period) - partly to give me more shade from the sun, and partly because i'm about 5 feet tall and i look silly in such a tall hat. For a picture of me in costume: http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/4233/chron.html I'm visible in the very last picture on the bottom of the page - i'm the one on the left in front of the big tree at Valhalla 98. Another picture of me is at: http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/4233/modesty.html but not much of my costume is visible. I haven't seen more than a picture or two in the Elizabethan books i have. Since Puritan women dressed rather plainly, i guess they're not pretty enough. But since they were often somewhat wealthy, my guild master has given me permission to make my costume fancier. I would actually like some references to period paintings of known "Puritan" women, or written references describing how they dressed. I want to look richer, yet still look plain, remembering that we get locked in the stocks and drubbed with water at least once at nearly every fair, and are meant to be a bit foolish, rather than completely authentic. Does anyone have any suggestions for how i can dress up my outfit while still remaining "modest"? Thanks. Lilinah aka Modesty "Drive from me all vanity and lies" Thorneycrofte _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 22:28:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06510 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:28:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11570; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:43:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29354 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:42:54 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29345 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:42:52 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EQBHX6VX; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:42:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:41:44 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Puritan suggestions wanted Message-ID: <19991031.224152.-355549.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 19-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Your outfit sounds very nice, but unfortunately the Puritan=sober and plain is not an Elizabethan concept. It really grew as a reaction to excesses under James and Charles. If you look at portraits of known Elizabethan Puritans, you will see anything but plain and sober. I mean, Lettice Knollys and her son Robert Devereux Earl of Essex were both staunch Puritans who were style-setting peacocks! No plain and sober for either of them! Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester was also known for his Puritan stance and once again, bright style setting clothing. The stance of Puritan meant that they wanted to purify the Anglican Church from Popish influences, it didn't really indicate much of a lifestyle choice. They were more worried about scriptural usage than fabric usage. I realize that this doesn't help you design a recognizably Puritan outfit, but I hope that you will understand why it may be tricky to find pictorial representations of Puritans who fit the stereotype. As a matter of fact, black was a luxury color at the time, so wearing it would have been unconscionably ostentatious by stereotypically Puritan values. For a written description of what Puritanical social commentators thought was horribly wrong with the way Englishmen and women were dressing, check out Philip Stubbes. But all that really indicates is what people *were* wearing, and what one curmudgeon didn't like. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 23:01:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06539 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:01:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14137; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:18:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04275 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:17:55 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04264 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:17:53 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EQBKXAY6; Mon, 01 Nov 1999 00:16:59 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:16:04 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Puritan suggestions wanted Message-ID: <19991031.231622.-665497.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,14-15,18-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Okay, here's a few more Elizabethan Puritans (Precisionists). Just about anyone of the Sidney family was Puritan, that includes Frances Sidney, Countess of Sussex, Sir Henry Sidney, Mary Dudley-Lady Sidney (wife of Henry), Sir Philip Sidney-Poet, Mary Sidney-Countess of Pembroke. Also you could look for portraits of Sir Henry Hastings-Earl of Huntingdon who has come down to us with the nickname of 'The Puritan Earl'. I took a look thru 'Dynasties' and of the portraits of people whose religious inclinations I am either familiar with or was indicated in the description, all black clothing seems to be more typical of Catholics than of known Puritans. The Browne brothers were noted Recusants (Catholics) and they chose to be portrayed in a group portrait wearing 3 indentical outfits of black satin with white ruffs. Likewise the Earl and Countess of Arundel, Catholics, are shown wearing very austere black clothing with white linen. Sir Francis Walsingham was a very staunch Puritan and is shown wearing all black, but considering his job, he may be using it more for intimidation and effect than for religious reasons. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 23:10:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06550 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:10:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14559; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05560 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:28:09 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05552 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:26:24 -0600 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from dragonlair (216.3.231.218::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:26:23 -0600 Message-ID: <381D25BE.3424@wireweb.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:31:42 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: German Slash and puff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: B13DCE0C-8F4111D3-BB3C0040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" Hi all, I want to make one of those lovely German slash and puff dress. But I'm coming up short on the documentation. Before I cut the velvet I would like to have as much information as possible and not rely on a paperdoll interpretation. Anyone know of any artists I could look up on the web for portraits? What about readily available books? I have to get cutting pretty quick-need it complete for Saturday- so ILL is out of the question. Thanks Alexandria _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Oct 31 23:18:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06557 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:18:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14955; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06556 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:35:49 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06548 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:35:47 -0700 (MST) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 6YXTa17102 (3999) for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:35:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.c179cd41.254e808f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:35:11 EST Subject: Re: H-COST: Repro Victorian Garnet Jewelry To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mayfair13a@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/99 9:51:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, lavolta@best.com writes: << -Poster: Lavolta Press http://www.classic-jewelry.de/page_necklace-l.htm A company in Germany that reproduces 1860-1880 style Bohemian garnet necklaces, earrings, etc. I haven't bought from them but am thinking about it. Fran >> Okay, I punched in this web address & came up with nothing. Could you please tell us the name of the company? I'm not very computer agile. Thank You So Much Pasha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Nov 1 00:49:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06635 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:49:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19408; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14587 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:06:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14580 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-88.radiks.net [206.29.243.90]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA18426 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:04:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19991101010205.03de2b60@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:02:05 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Halloween costume In-Reply-To: <199911010443.VAA29390@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger I just had to throw in my experience: This is the first time since I started working at my company (20 years ago) that they have allowed us to dress up for Halloween. Naturally, I was very happy - until I checked the closet and discovered that almost all of my "Halloweeny" stuff was now too small (I hate gaining weight!). (BTW, most of our costuming is fantasy/Science fiction, so if you don't know the book or mythology source, it's a mystery.) Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet and spend the time to do full vampire makeup and wear my vampire nun. This is an underskirt of black/gold lace over red taffeta, a purple satin T-tunic with bat-scalloped hem and bell sleeves, two layers of tabards over it, one red, one black, a rosary-style belt, and a black lace over gold lame collar with red jewels. The headdress is a black hood/wimple with gold and black bat wings (a la the Flying Nun) and a black net veil. Add the vampire makeup and teeth. Well, everyone was very impressed, especially the ones who don't know I costume. The kicker was that almost no-one figured out what the costume was, and the majority's first guess was "Queen Amidala"!!! In fact, I won "Most Beautiful" because they thought that was what I was, even though in my bit for the judges I blessed them, flashed the fangs, then bit one of them on the neck! Go figure. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Nov 1 02:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06583 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25725; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:13:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA25053 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:12:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25041 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.145] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11iDW2-0002hx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:12:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991031142426.00a17890@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:26:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: German Slash and puff In-Reply-To: <381D25BE.3424@wireweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I want to make one of those lovely German slash and puff dress. But I'm >coming up short on the documentation. Before I cut the velvet I would >like to have as much information as possible and not rely on a paperdoll >interpretation. > >Anyone know of any artists I could look up on the web for portraits? Albrecht Durer and Jost Amman are the best artists. And search for Landsknecht on the web. >What about readily available books? I have to get cutting pretty >quick-need it complete for Saturday- so ILL is out of the question. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Nov 1 02:56:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06617 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25733; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:13:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA25050 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:12:41 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25031 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.145] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11iDW1-0002hx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:12:37 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991031135352.00b96480@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:24:02 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Puritan suggestions wanted In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I want to look richer, yet still look plain, remembering that we get >locked in the stocks and drubbed with water at least once at nearly >every fair, and are meant to be a bit foolish, rather than completely >authentic. The look you are doing, while not strictly period, is monochrome. So use more texture and visual interest. Add those little details which, on anyone else's garments, would indicate wealth - but do it in black. Do some blackwork on your shirt. Use band or twisted cord trim, in dark grey or black, on your black garments. Have visible ribbon ties, using black on black patterned ribbon. Use black velvet or one of those black-on-black woven brocades for something. Make black/grey changeable taffeta sleeves and pink them. Wear an additional garment, like a cape or partlet. Put more black feathers in your hat, and make a fancier black hatband. Wear patterned black stockings. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Nov 1 03:06:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10255 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:06:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26002; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA26140 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:23:36 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26133 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:23:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.204] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11iDgZ-0003Iy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:23:32 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19991031143549.00a6be60@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 01:38:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Dylon for hot water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I used to be able to get Dylon dye for hot water. I haven't seen the stuff for years now, only the cold water version. Is it still made for hot water? If so, where can I get it? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME